MTG Salvation

Persistent Petitioners clearly, we'd include Thrumming Stone. One thing that has been suggested was bureaucracy deck headed by Oloro, Ageless Ascetic we'd also want the following: Rings of Brighthearth, and Illusionist's Bracers unless I'm not understanding things correctly. And Sphinx of the Chimes will pay off.

I'm not sure if Azor's Elocutors would be on theme or not.

Remembrance can be useful If we're running a sac outlet while Altar of the Brood helps speed up our game plan. Sunscape Familiar helps make Persistent Petitioners cost 1 blue instead of 2 mana. Homeward Path is a must If our opponents are trying to steal our Persistent Petitioners with Blatant Thievery and Insurrection not to mention Reliquary Tower If we're drawing tons of cards with Distant Melody / Slate of Ancestry.

If we're going with a Sultai approach with Persistent Petitioners then Bloodbond March probably wouldn't be too bad especially since it has synergy with Sidisi, Brood Tyrant for spamming Zombie tokens anytime we accidentally mill Persistent Petitioners. Sunscape Familiar with Phyrexian Altar not only helps pay into our Advisors for milling our opponents but also helps fuel Faces of the Past for untap shenanigans as well.

Other cards to look into are Kiora's Follower and Gilder Bairn due to their synergy with Illusionist's Bracers, maybe add in Springleaf Drum as another way to provide mana for casting Persistent Petitioners with Paradox Engine perhaps? Murkfiend Liege and Seedborn Muse seem pretty solid for milling our opponents during their own turns. Not sure how I feel about an Esper route with Oloro, Ageless Ascetic with Persistent Petitioners though.

Damn, you beat me to it!
Fundamental question: How many Petioners are needed for them to be able to persist efficiently? Same numbers as the apostle deck? Also, if we include cards like Faces of the Past , Intruder Alarm and Paradox Engine we should roughly determine how many iterations of tap/untap will be needed to mill the table

Well, I haven't done an apostle deck but I have done a relentless rats deck,which runs 20 rats, which reminds me we'd want patriarch's biddingas a mass recursion

As commanders goes, there are a few which might be interesting.

Grand Arbiter Augustin IV would be on tribe and mace the Relentless 'Crats cheaper

Ambassador Laquatus would support the milling theme.

Kami of the Crescent Moon might actually be interesting. It is card draw and also thins the decks of our opponents.

Kira, Great Glass-Spinner to protect our board.

Also Teferi, Temporal Archmage or Aminatou, the Fateshifter could also be really solid commander for this.

My first inclination for this deck is for it to have green in its identity. I'm thinking of stuff like Seedborn Muse and Vitalize but...I can't think of any others off the top of my head so I may be going down the wrong rabbit hole there. I do, however, think Dramatic Reversal could do well here.

Benefactor's Draught is really good in that category, as is Intellectual Offering

You could also go into Jeskai for Jeskai Ascendancy and make the advisors buff.

You'll probably want black for Bloodchief Ascension. Once it's active, tapping four Advisors drains 48. This also would let you use Orzhov cards; after all, what's the greatest threat to a democracy other than the marriage of politics with money?

Quote from Hermes_ »

Well, I haven't done an apostle deck but I have done a relentless rats deck,which runs 20 rats, which reminds me we'd want patriarch's biddingas a mass recursion

i did 36 rats when i did that deck


Intruder alarm + Undead Alchemist can be very useful. just a quick practice run and with 6 card (Intruder alarm, Undead alchemist and four Persistent petitioners) i was milling people very quickly (Getting an average of 4 creatures off of the first guy, i had enough activation to mill everyone after he was milled out)

What about Lost legacy + Mana Severance?

With Brago, King Eternal it‘s possible to ‚untap‘ the Petitioners. With Altar of the Brood more cards are milled then.

A nice commander would also be Wrexial, the Risen Deep who likes big graveyards

Also playable would be the Duskmantle Guildmage. His first ability can be activated more than once and cause so a massive life loss.

To be honest, I'm not sure what you're supposed to do in theses threads other than make the card suggestions lol

Azor's Elocutors would totally be on point for either theme or sub-theme of Advisor, also Grindstone might be useful

You guys have suggested many great cards, but you are missing the most obvious one: Quest for Renewal. Easy to activate, then its a quick way to mill everyone (obviously best in multiplayer games).

There is also awakening but this one is a bit more risky to use.

I think that, given the fact that the bureaucratic win condition is a creature, we are set on blue and black( for reanimation and recovering from wraths) at least?

In Blue and Black we have the choice between 2 great mill commander: Phenax, God of Deception and Mirko Vosk, Mind Drinker.

I like Phenax a bit more given that our standard creature has 3 toughness his ability is rather scary and if he becomes a creature he can mill for 7 which is also great.

The thing is that we will be tapping petitioners to their ability not Phenax's, so there might be unecessary redundancy. I think that esper are the best colors, esp. flavorwise

Seems to me like the best support cards are in black and green (and blue, but you're obviously already there). Green gets you awakening effects and black gets you tutors, mass recursion, things that target opponents graveyards, and bloodchief ascension. Obviously if he was legal Leovold would be the elf for the job, being an advisor and combing with wheels and other forced card draw that these sort of decks like. Perhaps Thrasios or the other UG partner and Ravos? Ravos can keep grabbing them from your yard while thrasios is always a great CA engine and mana sink.

There's a very obvious commander for this deck in Muldrotha, the Gravetide that would allow you to also use the mill on yourself and then cast whatever gets dropped in the bin. With cards like Bloodbond March and Faces of the Past you can quite easily end up casting 12+ Petitioners in one go, even right after a boardwipe.

Quote from Kaltovei »

There's a very obvious commander for this deck in Muldrotha, the Gravetide that would allow you to also use the mill on yourself and then cast whatever gets dropped in the bin. With cards like Bloodbond March and Faces of the Past you can quite easily end up casting 12+ Petitioners in one go, even right after a boardwipe.

Yeah, I think we're firmly in Sultai at this point. Bloodbond March seems fantastic. I think we've damn near got a deck, folks! I think I"m gonna try Muldrotha myself.

Quote from Kaltovei »

There's a very obvious commander for this deck in Muldrotha, the Gravetide that would allow you to also use the mill on yourself and then cast whatever gets dropped in the bin. With cards like Bloodbond March and Faces of the Past you can quite easily end up casting 12+ Petitioners in one go, even right after a boardwipe.

That being said, Muldrotha, the Gravetide might actually be a better Commander for this build than Sidisi, Brood Tyrant. While we're on the subject we might as well run Possessed Portal since Muldrotha helps us get back any permanent we discard while we can replace our draws with tutor effects and reveal effects for card advantage. Dredge seems like it could work well especially If we're running Hermit Druid to mill ourselves with Living Death as a pseudo-board wipe for getting back our Persistent Petitioners in our graveyard.

Since we're milling with Persistent Petitioners we also need to run exile abilities such as Tormod's Crypt, Relic of Progenitus, Sentinel Totem, and Bojuka Bog. If we're needing to go after combo pieces that we don't mill and exile with Persistent Petitioners then Jester's Cap, Helm of Obedience, and Thought Dissector seem to fit the bill fine. Intruder Alarm could set up for some funny shenanigans with Mesmeric Orb even though it affects us as well not to mention that Cauldron of Souls puts the "Persist" in Persistent Petitioners.

Quote from Card Slinger J »

that Cauldron of Souls puts the "Persist" in Persistent Petitioners.

This is turning into a very interesting thread because of the different reactions and choices,because I personally was thinking flavor/theme over function. But keep the suggestions coming!

Here's a decklist I compiled for Sultai Persistent Petitioners:

Had a bit of trouble with the mana base though it doesn't look too bad.

How come you didn't include grindstone, it might be more of a meta call grindstone that is, also why not patriarch's bidding?

Quote from Card Slinger J »

Here's a decklist I compiled for Sultai Persistent Petitioners:

vandertroll's DeckMagic OnlineOCTGN2ApprenticeBuy These Cards
Commander (1) 1 Muldrotha, the Gravetide Creatures (40) 28 Persistent Petitioners 1 Nightscape Familiar 1 Hermit Druid 1 Kami of the Crescent Moon 1 Duskmantle Guildmage 1 Seedborn Muse 1 Murkfiend Liege 1 Meren of Clan Nel Toth 1 Caustic Caterpillar 1 Tradewind Rider 1 Shriekmaw 1 Protean Hulk 1 Kira, Great Glass-Spinner Instants (5) 1 Urborg Justice 1 Abrupt Decay 1 Sultai Charm 1 Krosan Grip 1 Cyclonic Rift	Sorceries (5) 1 Living Death 1 Creeping Renaissance 1 Windfall 1 Secret Salvage 1 Assassin's Trophy Artifacts (10) 1 Sentinel Totem 1 Tormod's Crypt 1 Relic of Progenitus 1 Sol Ring 1 Chromatic Lantern 1 Altar of the Brood 1 Phyrexian Altar 1 Gilded Lotus 1 Mind's Eye 1 Thrumming Stone Enchantments (5) 1 Bloodbond March 1 Symbiotic Deployment 1 Faces of the Past 1 Bloodchief Ascension 1 Quest for Renewal	Lands (34) 9 Swamp 9 Forest 9 Island 1 Command Tower 1 Opulent Palace 1 Bojuka Bog 1 Evolving Wilds 1 Terramorphic Expanse 1 Homeward Path 1 Reliquary Tower

Had a bit of trouble with the mana base though it doesn't look too bad.

Ohh this is turning into a very interesting deck and I am sold for Sultai as well. I hope we can keep this one budget conscious
What about Fatestitcher and Intruder Alarm ? Didn't make the final cut?
Also, did anyone consider Mana Severance to think the deck prior to mass milling?

Quote from Card Slinger J »

Here's a decklist I compiled for Sultai Persistent Petitioners:

Taleran's DeckMagic OnlineOCTGN2ApprenticeBuy These Cards
Commander (1) 1 Muldrotha, the Gravetide Creatures (40) 28 Persistent Petitioners 1 Nightscape Familiar 1 Hermit Druid 1 Kami of the Crescent Moon 1 Duskmantle Guildmage 1 Seedborn Muse 1 Murkfiend Liege 1 Meren of Clan Nel Toth 1 Caustic Caterpillar 1 Tradewind Rider 1 Shriekmaw 1 Protean Hulk 1 Kira, Great Glass-Spinner Instants (5) 1 Urborg Justice 1 Abrupt Decay 1 Sultai Charm 1 Krosan Grip 1 Cyclonic Rift	Sorceries (5) 1 Living Death 1 Creeping Renaissance 1 Windfall 1 Secret Salvage 1 Assassin's Trophy Artifacts (10) 1 Sentinel Totem 1 Tormod's Crypt 1 Relic of Progenitus 1 Sol Ring 1 Chromatic Lantern 1 Altar of the Brood 1 Phyrexian Altar 1 Gilded Lotus 1 Mind's Eye 1 Thrumming Stone Enchantments (5) 1 Bloodbond March 1 Symbiotic Deployment 1 Faces of the Past 1 Bloodchief Ascension 1 Quest for Renewal	Lands (34) 9 Swamp 9 Forest 9 Island 1 Command Tower 1 Opulent Palace 1 Bojuka Bog 1 Evolving Wilds 1 Terramorphic Expanse 1 Homeward Path 1 Reliquary Tower

Had a bit of trouble with the mana base though it doesn't look too bad.

You most likely do not want an even distribution of Basic Lands, you want Islands over everything at least that is what was true when I was playing Shadowborn Apostles in 3 and 4 color decks you need to be hitting the color of the most common thing in the deck by far. Also 27 basics makes Hermit Druid feel like a strange choice

I think me personally would go Bant over Sultai you also still can keep the reanimation in Remembrance and Angel of Glory's Rise