So with the huge amount of plains walkers being made me and my friends started working on a new commander format and i would like any advice or cards to be banned
1. You have 2 commanders one a creature or plains walker that can be ran as your commander and a legendary non creature card as your second commander
2. you can run 2 copy's of cards in your deck
3. you can only do 10 of the following actions, cast spells, trigger ability's and activate ability's. you can ignore this rule if a spell forces you to
4. on extra turns you cannot take extra turns
thank you for any help
So with the huge amount of plains walkers being made me and my friends started working on a new commander format and i would like any advice or cards to be banned
1. You have 2 commanders one a creature or plains walker that can be ran as your commander and a legendary non creature card as your second commander
2. you can run 2 copy's of cards in your deck
3. you can only do 10 of the following actions, cast spells, trigger ability's and activate ability's. you can ignore this rule if a spell forces you to
4. on extra turns you cannot take extra turns
thank you for any help
Some interesting ideas here, but I have a few questions/concerns:
1) Two "commanders" is an interesting idea and a few variants of this have been thrown around, including Partners in actual Commander, "Lieutenants" as a second commander within your colors, and Oathbreaker which has a Legend/Planeswalker + a "Signature Spell". Can you elaborate on why the second commander has to be a non-creature? You can already have a non-creature (Planeswalker) as your main commander, and the options for non-creature, non-planeswalker legendary cards are pretty restrictive. Can the second card be a legendary land like Gaea's Cradle? Can the second card be a legendary instant or sorcery like Kamahl's Druidic Vow? How is color identity determined? Does the second card need to be within the first card's color identity, or is your deck's color identity determined from the union of both cards?
2) Why two copies? It seems like this adds a ton of consistency (100 cards with 2 copies of each is going to be more consistent than 60 cards with 1 copy of each) and probably limits brewing space a lot because suddenly every "auto-include" is worth auto-including twice. Can you include an additional copy of your commander(s) in your maindeck? Can you run two of the same planeswalker as your commanders?
3) This rule seems designed to discourage combo-type play, but it also seems like it's incredibly hard to track and overly restrictive. And if discouraging combo is your primary goal, rule #2 seems really backwards. Like, I could build an insanely powerful Hermit Druid combo deck that would win within these constraints - Activate Hermit Druid (1) milling your entire library. Two Narcomoebas enter the battlefield (3). Flashback Dread Return (4) targeting The Mimeoplasm, exiling Hydra Omnivore and Lord of Extinction. Dragon's Breath triggers and returns (5). Swing, deal ~100 to your opponent, Omnivore triggers dealing 100 to each other opponent (6). Even has room for a couple of counterspells. Alternatively, Dread Return brings back Angel of Glory's Rise which triggers (5) returns Laboratory Maniac and Azami, Lady of Scrolls, tap either (6) to draw a card which is replaced by winning the game. And when my deck can include 2 Demonic Tutor, Vampiric Tutor, Imperial Seal, Worldly Tutor, Sylvan Tutor, Green Sun's Zenith, and other tutors, plus two copies of every fast mana artifact like Sol Ring, Mana Crypt, Chrome Mox, Mox Diamond, etc I can easily do this turn 2 or 3 basically every game.
4) This rule seems fine, discouraging people from running a bunch of extra turn spells, but the way you've worded it here seems weird. Does this *just* mean I can't take 3 turns in a row? Or does it mean that I can't add additional extra turns to the stack if I'm in an extra turn? It sounds like you mean the latter, which means I could still cast Time Stretch and Twincast it a few times and take 5+ turns in a row. If it's the former, it drastically alters how Time Stretch and cards like Temporal Expropriation work. If that's the intent, why not just ban those cards?
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Some interesting ideas here, but I have a few questions/concerns:
1) Two "commanders" is an interesting idea and a few variants of this have been thrown around, including Partners in actual Commander, "Lieutenants" as a second commander within your colors, and Oathbreaker which has a Legend/Planeswalker + a "Signature Spell". Can you elaborate on why the second commander has to be a non-creature? You can already have a non-creature (Planeswalker) as your main commander, and the options for non-creature, non-planeswalker legendary cards are pretty restrictive. Can the second card be a legendary land like Gaea's Cradle? Can the second card be a legendary instant or sorcery like Kamahl's Druidic Vow? How is color identity determined? Does the second card need to be within the first card's color identity, or is your deck's color identity determined from the union of both cards?
I'm wondering the same thing myself. It seems a bit redundant but it sounds like the OP is trying to say the second card must be a Planeswalker. Not counting WAR, there are 303 Legendary cards in Magic, broken into 160 Planeswalkers and 143 otherwise. Some of these non-creatures are notable. Like Dark Depths. As far as I know there are no Commanders that can remove counters but have a 20/20 waiting to be cast as you draw one needed card is quite something.
#3 is uh... interesting. So play ten spells, triggered abilities or activated abilities and then play Dark Depths or any other ETB card like Phyrexian Dreadnaught without having to worry about the ETB?
I'm not against new formats. Just trying to understand the format is all.
This is probably a bad idea, but having a modified rule #3 to have instead: "at the end of mulligan stage of game setup, each player puts an emblem with 'pay 3 life: Choose one: counter target non-creature spell or draw a card.' into play"
Or maybe "at the beginning of the game, put an emblem with "trinisphere" into play"
So at worst, if someone tries to go nuts to combo off quickly, players can keep each other player in check.
(i know it's bad, but combo-hosing is something that's never pretty)
thanks for the advice to answer your question
1. the second commander is any legendary card that either isn't a creature or cannot be your commander so you can use a legendary lands or artifacts in addition to your commander or commanders if your using partner
2. you cannot run a second copy of your commanders and do you think lowering the number of cards you can run a second copy like 5 or 10 this rule was added because some of the people i group tested wanted a little more consistency
3. this was to stop combo players because the second commander gives a lot of variety and the extra copy give combo decks a lot of power so the rule was made to midi gate it
4 it probably would be better to ban those cards and i've been looking at other cards to ban like gias cradle, dark depths, enter the infinite and if you can think of more please post
thanks for the advice to answer your question
1. the second commander is any legendary card that either isn't a creature or cannot be your commander so you can use a legendary lands or artifacts in addition to your commander or commanders if your using partner
Okay so you answered one question - you can use legendary lands. But you didn't answer my other questions. Are legendary sorceries like Kamahl's Druidic Vow okay? How does Color Identity apply here - does your second card need to be within your first Commander's color identity (like Oathbreaker), or is the color identity of your deck the combination of both of your Commander cards' identities (like partner)?
2. you cannot run a second copy of your commanders and do you think lowering the number of cards you can run a second copy like 5 or 10 this rule was added because some of the people i group tested wanted a little more consistency
I really think this is a bad idea. Part of the point of Commander formats is that the slower games, larger deck sizes, and singleton restriction allow more cards to be playable because you need to include more unique cards in your deck. Removing the singleton restriction means that rather than play 60-65 nonland cards, you're playing 2 copies each of ~30 nonland cards and maybe a couple of singleton tutor targets. It's going to raise consistency by more than a little. 5-10 doubled copies alleviates this a little, but most people will probably just double up on tutors and you end up with a lot of the same problems. It's also going to deter people from trying your format, as many people only have one copy of staple cards (especially expensive stuff like Duals, Mana Crypt, etc) and won't be able to build a tuned deck without shelling out a lot.
3. this was to stop combo players because the second commander gives a lot of variety and the extra copy give combo decks a lot of power so the rule was made to midi gate it
This sounds like some great feedback as to things that do not work in your format. You're giving *way* too much consistency to your combo decks with the 2-of rule, and trying to "solve" it with a clunky, hard-to-track rule that doesn't shut down a lot of problematic combos isn't helping much. I look at this rule and my first thought is "Wow this guy must just really hate combos and is building this format to avoid having to play against them". Which I guess is somewhat legitimate, but it seems to me like most of the fun of EDH comes from having those big explosive turns that you're not going to see with this rule. It feels like you're throwing out the baby with the bathwater, when there are other, less drastic steps you could take like pinpoint bans, reversing the "2-of" rule, etc if there are actual things that are problematic in this format.
4 it probably would be better to ban those cards and i've been looking at other cards to ban like gias cradle, dark depths, enter the infinite and if you can think of more please post
If you feel you have to ban time magic, so be it. But I feel like this is one of those things that can be left up to societal pressure. If someone is regularly casting Time Stretch/Expropriate and not immediately winning, and durdling around for all their extra turns, just shun and shame them until they stop, or stop playing with them. Trying to make draconian rules against things that aren't super problematic in Commander proper just seems weird, especially when there's a bunch of stuff that's at least as frustrating to play against that you haven't mentioned, like Stax, Mass LD, Chaos, etc.
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are the combo deck(s) annoying to just you? or most of the playgroup?
To be honest, i've started to power down some of my decks just 'cuz i noticed that even though i don't win too often, i see players get that deflated-slump-shoulder thing whenever someone on the table powers out a 20-minute combo turn. Social pressure can be quite the thing. My play group though can be quite varied, and we're quite conscience of what's going on.
But yea, another idea for a rule could be like: for each spell played during any turn past the third, that player loses 1 life per storm count.
the easiest way to fix it is to ask the combo-try-hard players to build a deck or two that's more "for funsies" and mix between those.
1. You have 2 commanders one a creature or plains walker that can be ran as your commander and a legendary non creature card as your second commander
2. you can run 2 copy's of cards in your deck
3. you can only do 10 of the following actions, cast spells, trigger ability's and activate ability's. you can ignore this rule if a spell forces you to
4. on extra turns you cannot take extra turns
thank you for any help
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Tough choice.
Some interesting ideas here, but I have a few questions/concerns:
1) Two "commanders" is an interesting idea and a few variants of this have been thrown around, including Partners in actual Commander, "Lieutenants" as a second commander within your colors, and Oathbreaker which has a Legend/Planeswalker + a "Signature Spell". Can you elaborate on why the second commander has to be a non-creature? You can already have a non-creature (Planeswalker) as your main commander, and the options for non-creature, non-planeswalker legendary cards are pretty restrictive. Can the second card be a legendary land like Gaea's Cradle? Can the second card be a legendary instant or sorcery like Kamahl's Druidic Vow? How is color identity determined? Does the second card need to be within the first card's color identity, or is your deck's color identity determined from the union of both cards?
2) Why two copies? It seems like this adds a ton of consistency (100 cards with 2 copies of each is going to be more consistent than 60 cards with 1 copy of each) and probably limits brewing space a lot because suddenly every "auto-include" is worth auto-including twice. Can you include an additional copy of your commander(s) in your maindeck? Can you run two of the same planeswalker as your commanders?
3) This rule seems designed to discourage combo-type play, but it also seems like it's incredibly hard to track and overly restrictive. And if discouraging combo is your primary goal, rule #2 seems really backwards. Like, I could build an insanely powerful Hermit Druid combo deck that would win within these constraints - Activate Hermit Druid (1) milling your entire library. Two Narcomoebas enter the battlefield (3). Flashback Dread Return (4) targeting The Mimeoplasm, exiling Hydra Omnivore and Lord of Extinction. Dragon's Breath triggers and returns (5). Swing, deal ~100 to your opponent, Omnivore triggers dealing 100 to each other opponent (6). Even has room for a couple of counterspells. Alternatively, Dread Return brings back Angel of Glory's Rise which triggers (5) returns Laboratory Maniac and Azami, Lady of Scrolls, tap either (6) to draw a card which is replaced by winning the game. And when my deck can include 2 Demonic Tutor, Vampiric Tutor, Imperial Seal, Worldly Tutor, Sylvan Tutor, Green Sun's Zenith, and other tutors, plus two copies of every fast mana artifact like Sol Ring, Mana Crypt, Chrome Mox, Mox Diamond, etc I can easily do this turn 2 or 3 basically every game.
4) This rule seems fine, discouraging people from running a bunch of extra turn spells, but the way you've worded it here seems weird. Does this *just* mean I can't take 3 turns in a row? Or does it mean that I can't add additional extra turns to the stack if I'm in an extra turn? It sounds like you mean the latter, which means I could still cast Time Stretch and Twincast it a few times and take 5+ turns in a row. If it's the former, it drastically alters how Time Stretch and cards like Temporal Expropriation work. If that's the intent, why not just ban those cards?
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I'm wondering the same thing myself. It seems a bit redundant but it sounds like the OP is trying to say the second card must be a Planeswalker. Not counting WAR, there are 303 Legendary cards in Magic, broken into 160 Planeswalkers and 143 otherwise. Some of these non-creatures are notable. Like Dark Depths. As far as I know there are no Commanders that can remove counters but have a 20/20 waiting to be cast as you draw one needed card is quite something.
#3 is uh... interesting. So play ten spells, triggered abilities or activated abilities and then play Dark Depths or any other ETB card like Phyrexian Dreadnaught without having to worry about the ETB?
I'm not against new formats. Just trying to understand the format is all.
Or maybe "at the beginning of the game, put an emblem with "trinisphere" into play"
So at worst, if someone tries to go nuts to combo off quickly, players can keep each other player in check.
(i know it's bad, but combo-hosing is something that's never pretty)
Legacy - Solidarity - mono U aggro - burn - Imperial Painter - Strawberry Shortcake - Bluuzards - bom
1. the second commander is any legendary card that either isn't a creature or cannot be your commander so you can use a legendary lands or artifacts in addition to your commander or commanders if your using partner
2. you cannot run a second copy of your commanders and do you think lowering the number of cards you can run a second copy like 5 or 10 this rule was added because some of the people i group tested wanted a little more consistency
3. this was to stop combo players because the second commander gives a lot of variety and the extra copy give combo decks a lot of power so the rule was made to midi gate it
4 it probably would be better to ban those cards and i've been looking at other cards to ban like gias cradle, dark depths, enter the infinite and if you can think of more please post
Okay so you answered one question - you can use legendary lands. But you didn't answer my other questions. Are legendary sorceries like Kamahl's Druidic Vow okay? How does Color Identity apply here - does your second card need to be within your first Commander's color identity (like Oathbreaker), or is the color identity of your deck the combination of both of your Commander cards' identities (like partner)?
I really think this is a bad idea. Part of the point of Commander formats is that the slower games, larger deck sizes, and singleton restriction allow more cards to be playable because you need to include more unique cards in your deck. Removing the singleton restriction means that rather than play 60-65 nonland cards, you're playing 2 copies each of ~30 nonland cards and maybe a couple of singleton tutor targets. It's going to raise consistency by more than a little. 5-10 doubled copies alleviates this a little, but most people will probably just double up on tutors and you end up with a lot of the same problems. It's also going to deter people from trying your format, as many people only have one copy of staple cards (especially expensive stuff like Duals, Mana Crypt, etc) and won't be able to build a tuned deck without shelling out a lot.
This sounds like some great feedback as to things that do not work in your format. You're giving *way* too much consistency to your combo decks with the 2-of rule, and trying to "solve" it with a clunky, hard-to-track rule that doesn't shut down a lot of problematic combos isn't helping much. I look at this rule and my first thought is "Wow this guy must just really hate combos and is building this format to avoid having to play against them". Which I guess is somewhat legitimate, but it seems to me like most of the fun of EDH comes from having those big explosive turns that you're not going to see with this rule. It feels like you're throwing out the baby with the bathwater, when there are other, less drastic steps you could take like pinpoint bans, reversing the "2-of" rule, etc if there are actual things that are problematic in this format.
If you feel you have to ban time magic, so be it. But I feel like this is one of those things that can be left up to societal pressure. If someone is regularly casting Time Stretch/Expropriate and not immediately winning, and durdling around for all their extra turns, just shun and shame them until they stop, or stop playing with them. Trying to make draconian rules against things that aren't super problematic in Commander proper just seems weird, especially when there's a bunch of stuff that's at least as frustrating to play against that you haven't mentioned, like Stax, Mass LD, Chaos, etc.
Currently Playing:
Legacy: Something U/W Controlish
EDH Cube
Hypercube! A New EDH Deck Every Week(ish)!
To be honest, i've started to power down some of my decks just 'cuz i noticed that even though i don't win too often, i see players get that deflated-slump-shoulder thing whenever someone on the table powers out a 20-minute combo turn. Social pressure can be quite the thing. My play group though can be quite varied, and we're quite conscience of what's going on.
But yea, another idea for a rule could be like: for each spell played during any turn past the third, that player loses 1 life per storm count.
the easiest way to fix it is to ask the combo-try-hard players to build a deck or two that's more "for funsies" and mix between those.
Legacy - Solidarity - mono U aggro - burn - Imperial Painter - Strawberry Shortcake - Bluuzards - bom