RULES
Added Rule 0: These are the official rules of Commander. Local groups are welcome to modify them as they see fit. If you’d like an exception to these rules, especially in an unfamiliar environment, please get the approval of the other players before the game begins.
Rule 13 reworded for clarification: Abilities which bring card(s) you own from outside the game into the game (such as Wishes; Spawnsire of Ulamog; Karn, the Great Creator) do not function in Commander.
This is the first update after the formation of the Commander Advisory Group, and the CAG really rose to the occasion.
“No changes” on cards doesn’t really reflect the amount of discussion that went into our decision this time. The CAG had submitted to the RC their thoughts on the Banned List and the individual cards on it, but we (meaning both the RC and CAG) agreed there is a strong reason to take no action at this time. One of the major (and unanimous) points that came out of the joint RC/CAG meeting was that we’d like to update the Commander Philosophy document before making any further Banned List changes. We’re not going to engage in any sweeping overhauls, just make the language crisper, cleaner, and more concise. We haven’t changed the core philosophy of Commander: it is and always will be primarily a social format. As we frequently say, we want it to be the best that it can be on its own terms, and one of those terms is to have it be an alternative to tournament Magic. We continue to recognize that many different play styles are valid. One of the messages that we’ll be reinforcing in the new philosophy document is that pre-game discussion to make sure everyone is on the same page is vital—which led to our adoption of Rule 0.
Rule 0 has been part of Commander philosophy for more than a decade. Urged by the CAG, we simply decided to formalize it. Making it the first rule does two things. First, it lays out the baseline rules for the format. If you want to play official Commander, the rules that follow are set in stone. This becomes important in unfamiliar environments. When you go to a large event or play with people you don’t know, we want everyone to have the same basic expectations and understanding of what they’re getting into. Second, it underscores that quality communication is one of the best ways to ensure the best possible experience.
We reworked Rule 13 due to some ongoing confusion over the “officialness” of sideboards and wish boards. While (here comes Rule 0 again) we support local groups deciding what’s best for themselves in this regard, we wanted to clarify for the broader audience that no one can force you into letting “outside the game” cards work in a different way.
The other major discussion, driven by War of the Spark, was regarding planeswalkers as commanders. We will not be changing the definition of what can be a commander to allow all planeswalkers into the command zone. The RC and CAG were also unanimous on this point.
Expect to see more from the excellent advice that the CAG is offering to the RC in the next update, coinciding with the M20 release. Until then, enjoy War of the Spark, a set chock full of Commander goodies.
The other major discussion, driven by War of the Spark, was regarding planeswalkers as commanders. We will not be changing the definition of what can be a commander to allow all planeswalkers into the command zone. The RC and CAG were also unanimous on this point.
Finally. Let this point of contention die a death.
We reworked Rule 13 due to some ongoing confusion over the “officialness” of sideboards and wish boards. While (here comes Rule 0 again) we support local groups deciding what’s best for themselves in this regard, we wanted to clarify for the broader audience that no one can force you into letting “outside the game” cards work in a different way.
And this continues to be the worst possible option. If you don't want people to use wishes, simply ban them. Having a dozen or so cards legal but with literally no functional game text is just bonkers. Who exactly is this rule for? Isn't this the literal exact reason ya'll made Rule 0 for in the first place?
And this continues to be the worst possible option. If you don't want people to use wishes, simply ban them. Having a dozen or so cards legal but with literally no functional game text is just bonkers. Who exactly is this rule for? Isn't this the literal exact reason ya'll made Rule 0 for in the first place?
Between new Karn and Mastermind's Acquisition, Wizards has shown they're open to printing more effects of this type into the game, so increasing the banlist every time one of these gets printed on day 1 is a far less elegant way than simply denying the function full stop.
Between new Karn and Mastermind's Acquisition, Wizards has shown they're open to printing more effects of this type into the game, so increasing the banlist every time one of these gets printed on day 1 is a far less elegant way than simply denying the function full stop.
It really isn't any more elegant. The fact that I am legally allowed to put a card in my deck, cast that card, and then perform exactly zero game actions is as inelegant as it gets. Wishes are effectively banned, they're just not listed on the ban list. That's inelegant. If a new player asks me "is Burning Wish banned" I shouldn't have to say "no, but..." and then a long-winded explanation. That's inelegant.
It is extremely obvious the RC want the Wishes banned but simply don't want to make the banned list look larger. Just bite the bullet and add them to the list.
"Sideboards don't exist in commander, therefore the card does not function."
End of the conversation, there isn't a "no, but" required. Same as other cards that benefit from multiple copies such as Hedron Alignment. EDH players aren't that dim to argue with a rule that has been put in place once they are made aware of it.
"Sideboards don't exist in commander, therefore the card does not function."
End of the conversation, there isn't a "no, but" required.
Except the card is legal to play. Why?
It's not even mentioned on the ban list page on the "Official Commander Rules" site. Add a section for cards that reference "outside the game" and list them out real quick. That's all that needs to be done.
A lot of cards are legal in commander decks that don't have any function. Paliano, the High City is Commander legal but last time I checked I do not draft my Commander deck (even though Commander draft sounds interesting). Don'T put cards in your deck which are bad in the format. It is as simple as that.
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"Sideboards don't exist in commander, therefore the card does not function."
End of the conversation, there isn't a "no, but" required.
Except the card is legal to play. Why?
It's not even mentioned on the ban list page on the "Official Commander Rules" site. Add a section for cards that reference "outside the game" and list them out real quick. That's all that needs to be done.
Of the 12 cards that can get cards from outside of the game, eight serve no other function than doing so, but the other four have uses beyond that effect: Spawnsire is still an annihilator eldrazi that can make tokens, Development can be used normally, Karn's static and + abilities still work, and Mastermind's Acquisition is another copy of Diabolic Tutor. To me, that doesn't sound like a useless set of cards or cards that should be banned for being useless.
A lot of cards are legal in commander decks that don't have any function. Paliano, the High City is Commander legal but last time I checked I do not draft my Commander deck (even though Commander draft sounds interesting). Don'T put cards in your deck which are bad in the format. It is as simple as that.
Mainly because the card itself should explain that it doesn't function in EDH. Palino (and other draft-matters card) specifically mention being drafted. Wishes don't. As far as I can tell, sideboards aren't mentioned at all on the official commander rules page. The only mention of Wishes not working how one would think they do is tucked away in Rule 13, the last rule, on the "Play" tab. It should be made more clear, either under "Deck Construction" (because it more affects construction than play) or, as I would clearly prefer, under the "Banlist" tab because that's where it makes the most sense.
Paliano, the High City doesn't explain how it doesn't do anything either... Wishes specify outside the game, conspiracy cards specify drafting. I'm seriously not seeing any difference. You're granting that the average EDH player is smart enough to know that draft cards don't work when you don't draft but not that sideboard tutors don't work when there aren't sideboards?
The other major discussion, driven by War of the Spark, was regarding planeswalkers as commanders. We will not be changing the definition of what can be a commander to allow all planeswalkers into the command zone. The RC and CAG were also unanimous on this point.
Finally. Let this point of contention die a death.
It will actually never die, since Rule 0 will always allow that to exist for Local Groups who are willing to make that happend (and even having the approval of the format philosophy's spirit)
Also, never say never. What they are not willing to make officially now it doesn't mean they will not do it later, in some future, with a different game environment. Many toughts that also rules like "banned as commander but legal as in the 99" was a thing never going to change, but they changed at one point. Because all the rules are always "set in stone" until the moment they aren't anymore.
I think implementing this rule is important just to be clear to players. This is essentially no change whatsoever to the rules but it clarifies to players what the intent with these cards is. The previous rules left a little bit of ambiguity I had to explain to others a few times. This isn't anything new so I think clarifying to users what the rules on this front in a more clear way is good.
As to the question of should this rule exist, I think it should given the target audience of this banned list. From the standpoint of more competitive metas I think that allowing these is fine but I think this entire rule set is kind of moot for cEDH play. I would love it if the RC would spin up a group like the Commander Advisory Group to spin up a second banned list for cEDH. I say this from the standpoint that it would be very hard for anyone but the RC to have anything officially recognized on this front.
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EDH has plenty of its own rules that make it unique among formats. Why not one more? One that would be a net positive to the format. Namely, allow the Wishes and Co. to tutor for, oh I don’t know, cards that are outside of the game, just as the OG wish was originally designed for.
Simple rules:
1. You own the tutored card.
2. The card is outside of the game.
3. The card is within the color identity of your deck.
4. The card is legal in Commander (or allowed by your play group).
5. The card is (or will be) sleeved to match your deck’s sleeves, if any.
EDH has plenty of its own rules that make it unique among formats. Why not one more? .
Simple rules:
1. You own the tutored card.
2. The card is outside of the game.
3. The card is within the color identity of your deck.
4. The card is legal in Commander (or allowed by your play group).
5. The card is (or will be) sleeved to match your deck’s sleeves, if any.
Not's not ONE more that's FIVE more
And why does it have to match my commander's CI? It says any card......
EDIT II: Maybe this hsould be moved into it's own thread?
EDH has plenty of its own rules that make it unique among formats. Why not one more? .
Simple rules:
1. You own the tutored card.
2. The card is outside of the game.
3. The card is within the color identity of your deck.
4. The card is legal in Commander (or allowed by your play group).
5. The card is (or will be) sleeved to match your deck’s sleeves, if any.
Not's not ONE more that's FIVE more
And why does it have to match my commander's CI? It says any card......
EDIT II: Maybe this hsould be moved into it's own thread?
This is exactly why we left the rule as it was. Everyone has their own idea of what's a "reasonable interpretation" of the cards for Commander. People would be unhappy with any set of restrictions or allowances we gave, so it's best to let playgroups hash out these issues within themselves.
EDH has plenty of its own rules that make it unique among formats. Why not one more? One that would be a net positive to the format. Namely, allow the Wishes and Co. to tutor for, oh I don’t know, cards that are outside of the game, just as the OG wish was originally designed for.
Simple rules:
Ask 10 people what those 'simple rules' should be and get 10 different answers.
You want wishes? Get approval before you start, don't force them on the table.
If people are sick of reading about stuff just stop taking part. You have 100% control over what you read. Simic Ascendancy isn't going to get banned just because you didn't tell someone to shut up on the internet.
This really seems like an inability to cope with the "Playgroup/Kitchen Table" variants of the format. Planeswalkers aren't able to be used as commanders, unless they specify that they can be. That effect is limited to what, 9 planeswalkers of 178? Do you take issue with that? When there are literally thousands of cards, you're taking issue with 12 of them. 8 of those 12 don't function at all, when 4 of them still do in some capacity.
Sideboards aren't likely to ever be a thing for the official Commander/EDH format. As such, there's no reason to run the wishes. Everything I've seen is that people in favor of sideboards/wishes want a single card to have a swiss-army knife utility to find a specific hate card that they couldn't otherwise justify for regular play in the 99. Commander/EDH is a format of 100 cards, not 115, 110 or even 101. Deckbuilding and making cuts is difficult, and it's a part of the challenge of tuning a deck.
When cards like Karn, the Great Creator still have a function outside of the wish effect (especially when they can find artifacts of the 99 that were exiled that game), having the effect tossed out despite the versatility, just because the effect is similar, is akin to throwing the baby out with the bathwater.
The Rules Committee & Commander Advisory Group took an official stance in that there are official rules. Anything adapting those rules is a variant that is unlikely to be adopted in masse or at a local LGS. It sets a prescedent for new and old players alike so everyone can have a reasonable expectation going to play anywhere (ex. No sideboards/wish cards)
I'm definitely in favor of giving the official rules more importance. Until today, the Commander vibe always seemed to be that house rules were the ideal state, and that the official rules were just suggestions for those unlucky enough to play against strangers. The new, "These are the rules, and you're not entitled to change them" vibe sits better with me.
I'm definitely in favor of giving the official rules more importance. Until today, the Commander vibe always seemed to be that house rules were the ideal state, and that the official rules were just suggestions for those unlucky enough to play against strangers. The new, "These are the rules, and you're not entitled to change them" vibe sits better with me.
We still want established play groups to be able to tailor the format to their own tastes, but we accept that an ever-increasing volume of Commander play is happening outside of these sorts of groups and so we want to make it clear what the status quo is for these sort of pick-up game scenarios as well.
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Finally. Let this point of contention die a death.
Between new Karn and Mastermind's Acquisition, Wizards has shown they're open to printing more effects of this type into the game, so increasing the banlist every time one of these gets printed on day 1 is a far less elegant way than simply denying the function full stop.
It is extremely obvious the RC want the Wishes banned but simply don't want to make the banned list look larger. Just bite the bullet and add them to the list.
End of the conversation, there isn't a "no, but" required. Same as other cards that benefit from multiple copies such as Hedron Alignment. EDH players aren't that dim to argue with a rule that has been put in place once they are made aware of it.
It's not even mentioned on the ban list page on the "Official Commander Rules" site. Add a section for cards that reference "outside the game" and list them out real quick. That's all that needs to be done.
A lot of cards are legal in commander decks that don't have any function. Paliano, the High City is Commander legal but last time I checked I do not draft my Commander deck (even though Commander draft sounds interesting). Don'T put cards in your deck which are bad in the format. It is as simple as that.
Hands to the sky
Give a round of applause
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Of the 12 cards that can get cards from outside of the game, eight serve no other function than doing so, but the other four have uses beyond that effect: Spawnsire is still an annihilator eldrazi that can make tokens, Development can be used normally, Karn's static and + abilities still work, and Mastermind's Acquisition is another copy of Diabolic Tutor. To me, that doesn't sound like a useless set of cards or cards that should be banned for being useless.
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Oathbreaker: UB Ashiok's Persistent Nightmare UB
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It will actually never die, since Rule 0 will always allow that to exist for Local Groups who are willing to make that happend (and even having the approval of the format philosophy's spirit)
Also, never say never. What they are not willing to make officially now it doesn't mean they will not do it later, in some future, with a different game environment. Many toughts that also rules like "banned as commander but legal as in the 99" was a thing never going to change, but they changed at one point. Because all the rules are always "set in stone" until the moment they aren't anymore.
As to the question of should this rule exist, I think it should given the target audience of this banned list. From the standpoint of more competitive metas I think that allowing these is fine but I think this entire rule set is kind of moot for cEDH play. I would love it if the RC would spin up a group like the Commander Advisory Group to spin up a second banned list for cEDH. I say this from the standpoint that it would be very hard for anyone but the RC to have anything officially recognized on this front.
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Simple rules:
1. You own the tutored card.
2. The card is outside of the game.
3. The card is within the color identity of your deck.
4. The card is legal in Commander (or allowed by your play group).
5. The card is (or will be) sleeved to match your deck’s sleeves, if any.
Not's not ONE more that's FIVE more
And why does it have to match my commander's CI? It says any card......
EDIT II: Maybe this hsould be moved into it's own thread?
This is exactly why we left the rule as it was. Everyone has their own idea of what's a "reasonable interpretation" of the cards for Commander. People would be unhappy with any set of restrictions or allowances we gave, so it's best to let playgroups hash out these issues within themselves.
magicjudge.tumblr.com
GWU Angus Mackenzie's Fog of War GWU / B Sheoldred's Sleepless Cemetery B / R Ashling's Purifying Pilgrimage R
U Unesh's Sphinx Storm U / R Ib's Goblins: What It Says On The Tin R / UR Okaun & Zndrsplt Flip Out UR
Oathbreaker: UB Ashiok's Persistent Nightmare UB
Pretty sure of why CI exist in the first place in EDH. For aesthetic reasons. Which matters in this format.
You want wishes? Get approval before you start, don't force them on the table.
Sideboards aren't likely to ever be a thing for the official Commander/EDH format. As such, there's no reason to run the wishes. Everything I've seen is that people in favor of sideboards/wishes want a single card to have a swiss-army knife utility to find a specific hate card that they couldn't otherwise justify for regular play in the 99. Commander/EDH is a format of 100 cards, not 115, 110 or even 101. Deckbuilding and making cuts is difficult, and it's a part of the challenge of tuning a deck.
When cards like Karn, the Great Creator still have a function outside of the wish effect (especially when they can find artifacts of the 99 that were exiled that game), having the effect tossed out despite the versatility, just because the effect is similar, is akin to throwing the baby out with the bathwater.
The Rules Committee & Commander Advisory Group took an official stance in that there are official rules. Anything adapting those rules is a variant that is unlikely to be adopted in masse or at a local LGS. It sets a prescedent for new and old players alike so everyone can have a reasonable expectation going to play anywhere (ex. No sideboards/wish cards)
We still want established play groups to be able to tailor the format to their own tastes, but we accept that an ever-increasing volume of Commander play is happening outside of these sorts of groups and so we want to make it clear what the status quo is for these sort of pick-up game scenarios as well.
magicjudge.tumblr.com
GWU Angus Mackenzie's Fog of War GWU / B Sheoldred's Sleepless Cemetery B / R Ashling's Purifying Pilgrimage R
U Unesh's Sphinx Storm U / R Ib's Goblins: What It Says On The Tin R / UR Okaun & Zndrsplt Flip Out UR
Oathbreaker: UB Ashiok's Persistent Nightmare UB