Nykthos can't get that early game mana volume like Academy which is why I considered Academy better. The reason I believe Academy is so broken is that early game mana potential. In the later game, Nykthos and Cradle are superior choices on mana producing, I admit.
I feel like I've addressed the mathematical odds of the high amounts of mana early game already. So we're at an impasse based on our opinions, but that's okay Differing opinions sharing their beliefs is the exact reason I started this thread.
I feel like I've addressed the mathematical odds of the high amounts of mana early game already. So we're at an impasse based on our opinions, but that's okay Differing opinions sharing their beliefs is the exact reason I started this thread.even
No. What you have done is deliberately ignore the numerous caveats I noted in my analysis that all drastically improve both the consistency of an early Academy, and the mana it will produce, in an attempt to attack the minimum expected effectiveness of Academy on turn 1 or 2. You do so while ignoring how much stronger it is , even then, relative to the other cards you frequently compare it to, and present the argument of "it's not a problem if you don't draw it".
Know what else isn't a problem if you don't draw it? Channel. Fastbond. Yawgmoth's Bargain.
Allow me to reitterate a major point you have continually ignored. In a deck adequately equipped to use Accademy (aka gains benefit reliably enough for it to be better than Island), it will show up once every six or so games around turn 2.
Of the games it shows up, it will produce three or more mana a significant amount of the time (roughly a third to quarter), and rarely produce less than two.
Because the significant majority of cards that allow it to produce mana early themselves produce mana, both on the same turn they are cast, and often in greater amounts than they cost, this very rapidly creates a snowball effect.
If you have Academy produce 2 mana on turn 2, you have 4 or more mana available that turn, and 8 or more on turn 3.
If you have Academy produce 3 mana on turn 2, you have 6 or more mana available that turn, and 12 or more on turn 3. Colore mana.
Nothing else legal in the format comes even close to the speed, consistency, or raw scale of the mana Academy will reliably generate in the first few turns.
Yes, Gaea's Cradle will probably generate more mana on turn 7 than Academy would have, if the Academy game had a turn 7.
Touching on the above post, I firmly believe that this can have the effect of warping the format if it's unbanned.
You're going to see an uptick in the number of blue/x/x artifact decks who are all going to want to sample this unbanned "forbidden fruit"
Also, a lot more mono blue decks are going to alter their decks to include and abuse this card, because it is so powerful. (Granted, the mono blue decks I know already run a bunch of rocks).
And on the statistics of placing the land and being effective...it's not the consistency of the card that's frightening. It's the Christmas land openings, which people are going to Expedition Map, Demonic Tutor, Sylvan scrying their way into happening as often as possible, which will increase the odds of happening significantly. Trying to create the same opening on turn 1, 2, or 3 with cradle is enough of a hurdle that it isn't ban worthy.
I feel like I've addressed the mathematical odds of the high amounts of mana early game already. So we're at an impasse based on our opinions, but that's okay Differing opinions sharing their beliefs is the exact reason I started this thread.even
No. What you have done is deliberately ignore the numerous caveats I noted in my analysis that all drastically improve both the consistency of an early Academy, and the mana it will produce, in an attempt to attack the minimum expected effectiveness of Academy on turn 1 or 2. You do so while ignoring how much stronger it is , even then, relative to the other cards you frequently compare it to, and present the argument of "it's not a problem if you don't draw it".
Know what else isn't a problem if you don't draw it? Channel. Fastbond. Yawgmoth's Bargain.
Allow me to reitterate a major point you have continually ignored. In a deck adequately equipped to use Accademy (aka gains benefit reliably enough for it to be better than Island), it will show up once every six or so games around turn 2.
Of the games it shows up, it will produce three or more mana a significant amount of the time (roughly a third to quarter), and rarely produce less than two.
Because the significant majority of cards that allow it to produce mana early themselves produce mana, both on the same turn they are cast, and often in greater amounts than they cost, this very rapidly creates a snowball effect.
If you have Academy produce 2 mana on turn 2, you have 4 or more mana available that turn, and 8 or more on turn 3.
If you have Academy produce 3 mana on turn 2, you have 6 or more mana available that turn, and 12 or more on turn 3. Colore mana.
Nothing else legal in the format comes even close to the speed, consistency, or raw scale of the mana Academy will reliably generate in the first few turns.
Yes, Gaea's Cradle will probably generate more mana on turn 7 than Academy would have, if the Academy game had a turn 7.
I am not ignoring tutors, it just wasn't outlined in your example. However, when you start to factor in tutors, the effect of an early game tutor for the land will slow the land down since resources have to be committed for the tutor.
Channel, Fastbond, Yawgmoth's Bargain are all broken on their own, without any support from other cards. TA requires other cards to be in play to make it broken. It requires a board state. There isn't much more to say regarding those three cards and how they are different.
You keep stressing '1/6 games' and I hate to counter you over and over, but saying that means you're grossly over-exaggerating. The math doesn't support that statement. You seem to forget if you factor in tutors, you have to also factor in that you HAVE to hit a 0 or 1 cmc card that makes enough mana. Let's take Expedition Map for the example - to get a T2, 2 U tap off of TA, you MUST hit Sol Ring, Mana Crypt, Ancient Tomb + 2 1 cmc artifacts, or Mana Vault. Let's also not forget you effectively need to start your hand with at least one or two (including the mana makers outlined before) 1 or 0 mana artifact in hand to make up for losing the map to the tutor. Run the math off that scenario, but remember you already start at 9.09% odds of drawing Expedition map by T2, which will end up being worse since you really need to open with it or draw it first turn, so use 8.08% instead (represents odds of drawing it in 8 cards). But also remember, you're opening hand is now down effectively 5 cards to hit that TA for 2 mana.
Going further: What is an 'adequately equipped' mono-U artifact deck to get a reliable T2 TA? A deck that runs just about every 0 and 1 drop artifacts? Okay, so then you just lost access to ~25 card slots in order to 'break' that one card. If someone did that, I would LOVE to play against that person, because any of my decks would most likely be able to beat it due to the fact that a deck built like that is going to be low in threat density and require 'god-draws' to be relevant to an average EDH deck.
Ultimately, you and the rest of the people against unbanning this card are trying to stress how broken it will be on a consistent basis in the early game - T2 seems to be the most argued broken turn. And once again I stress to you, the math doesn't add up to support your theories. Will it happen? Statistically yes, you're right it will happen, but how often it will happen is an important thing to understand. Should a card be banned because it can happen on 'god-draws'?
Here's my take on TA. You guys seem to forget that ornithopter is a thing. There's plenty of other 0cmc artifacts out there that are effective on t1 as well. There's also artifact lands that are banned too. Imo, TA is to artifacts as chalice is to control. It gets insane and when used properly it will win you the game. It can also win you the game really early. Also unlike most other early artifact ramp plays this one gives you colored mana. Most everything else gives you colorless until you have enough for a signet or a cluestone. Here's an example t-1 with academy. T1 play ornithopter and academy. Now play brainstorm. What just happened? You got your TA online for 0 mana. You have a flying blocker on the field. And you set up your next couple draws. All for a single blue mana. That's insane. T2 another 0cmc artifact and an artifact land. Now you're able to tap academy for 3 on turn 2. And you still have your next draw set up. So you can play a master of etherium who comes in as a 3/3 or 4/4 on turn 2. Yes green has similar potential but they're waiting on turn 2 to start making things happen. With academy this starts on t1. And yes I do realize artifact lands are banned in modern as well.
Tapping Academy for 3 on turn 2 still isn't making it stronger than Sol Ring. Yeah, colored mana is nice, but no, going Academy, Ornithopter, Brainstorm isn't exactly a crazy opening in a casual deck. Even Sol Ring into turn 2 Explosive Vegetation hasn't ended games abruptly in games I've been in anywhere even though that's 6-7 mana turn 3. I know that's enough mana to lock a table out or combo kill, but that's not Academy's fault. That's the deck and no, Master of Etherium being a 3/3 or 4/4 on turn 2 isn't a big deal in multiplayer commander.
What I'm kind of confused about in this thread is the assumption that 6 green mana is some how equal to 6 blue mana. What an artifact deck can put together with a permanent like that can be a lot harder to stop then what creatures can put together. Candelabra of Tawnos, Snap, Frantic search, Time spiral , with outlets like Memnarch vrs Damnation and wrath of god. Green will run out of creatures far before blue runs out of artifacts.
The metalworker debate is ridiculous. TA should be unbanned because metalworker isnt banned. So that way the only deck that really benefits gets to run them both.
The draw card from blue is a big deal here. More cards = more artifacts = more mana = more cards ect.
Edit: card links
Yeah, 6 blue mana is probably stronger than 6 green, but the fact that you can build a more busted deck in blue isn't a banning factor. It and Channel got banned because super fast colorless dudes with Annihilator were wrecking casual games, not because blue is a broken color.
I never stated blue was broken as a color. Blue however is tough to beat with a strictly colorless deck. There's a million and one counter spells in blue. Take your pick. They're all solid. Blue makes it hard to pull off combos or drop bombs that can win you the game. That's what makes blue so strong. If anything I'd call white broken if I wanted to pick a broken color. It does everything except ramp well. The problem I see with blue is I think they're over compensating for the color having 3 cards in the power 9 that are stupid cheap and stupid broken so now they're making everything more expensive to cast. Taking extra turns in blue costs you like 7-8 mana now where if time walk wasn't banned/restricted it would cost 1. This especially important because blue doesn't ramp with the exception of the academy in an artifact based deck. The banning of it in modern is good because affinity. I have a friend with an artifact based deck that has a playset of the artifact lands in the colors he uses and an academy or 2. It's so fast that even my elves can't keep up. If he took out the academies and put in islands it would make it a little more fair but I'd still have to use my elves to keep up with it.
What I'm kind of confused about in this thread is the assumption that 6 green mana is some how equal to 6 blue mana. What an artifact deck can put together with a permanent like that can be a lot harder to stop then what creatures can put together. Candelabra of Tawnos, Snap, Frantic search, Time spiral , with outlets like Memnarch vrs Damnation and wrath of god. Green will run out of creatures far before blue runs out of artifacts.
The metalworker debate is ridiculous. TA should be unbanned because metalworker isnt banned. So that way the only deck that really benefits gets to run them both.
The draw card from blue is a big deal here. More cards = more artifacts = more mana = more cards ect.
Edit: card links
Yeah, 6 blue mana is probably stronger than 6 green, but the fact that you can build a more busted deck in blue isn't a banning factor. It and Channel got banned because super fast colorless dudes with Annihilator were wrecking casual games, not because blue is a broken color.
Banings are almost entirely about what can be used with them. Even your example is actually a counter point. Ether the annihilators had to go or TA had to because of how they worked together. Would modern have banned sword of the meek if thopter foundry wasn't available? What a card can do on its own is very rarely the reason for the ban. That is why they have an R&D team. Granted there are a few big misses on there part *cough* jace, the mind sculptor. But for the most part its the combination of the environment and the power level.
That isn't how bannings work in Commander though. The format is horribly broken and the players that play to the spirit of the format are expected not to push it to the max. Banning Academy isn't stopping people from dropping turn 3 annihilators anyway. What ended up happening is that Emrakul 1 ended up getting axed later and Academy wasn't really ever revisited.
I played Tolarian Academy in the early days of edh before thete was as much emphasis on the banned and restricted list. This card was powerful enough to allow players to keep up with/ or beat a turn 2 Braids, Cabal Minion pretty consistently when drawn by turn 2.
Just let that sink in.
I personally think that Tolarian Academy should have been the fulcrum of the power level seesaw of the restricted list: if its stronger then ban it; if jot, let it rock. The edh comittee doesnt share my point of view.
I think the bigger issue here is that blue is objectively the best color in magic, and assuming you have a vast cardpool to build from, the amount of rediculous things you can do with an academy on turn 3 is a lot worse that what you can do witj a cradle or coffers on turn 3. With cradle or coffers, you are probably throwing a lot of power/ damage onto the table and messing up a permenant or two. With Tolarian mana, you have probably reloaded your hand once or twice after dropping 3-10 mana rocks, and are either threatening to storm the table, deaw someone out of the game, or drop a land equilibrium/ sphere & smokestack and pass the turn to stay ahead and virtually win.the game.
Blue esnt fight n the same axis as the other 4 colors of magic, and that the only things that makes those blue cards that dont fairer is their casting cost. That is what makes olarian scary. It made edh feel like legacy, except you replace the card brainstorm with Tolarian Academy. I dont think there is inherently anything wrong with that, but the number of tier 1 decks diminishes greatly when you have to pack you deck with cards strong enough to keep up.
Ironically, many of the cards that did are also banned.
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Blue: teaching Magic players manners since 1995
Shops: Teaching blue players manners since 2009
Yeah, that would be a good ban argument if the banned list were about optimal power but then the banned list would look a lot different than it does now. Most of the banned stuff would come off and things like Sol Ring, Mana Crypt, Ad Nauseam, Hermit Druid, etc. would go on. It's not a secret that blue is really strong at optimal power and has the answers to broken ***** but in casual decks, it probably isn't as good as Sol Ring which is probably never getting banned.
I agree that Tolarian Academy is too powerful for a competitive format, but this isn't that. If the RC wants this format to be about fun, swingy games and crazy plays, let the Academy go free, because it certainly supports dropping a turn 4 Stormtide Leviathan or Tromokratis (or whatever it is you guys would do with it).
Yea, and I want Channel unbanned so I can power out a Draco. You and I both know that that argument won't fly in most of the games. Now I'm sure somebody here is going to reply "But I was going to do just that" to which I say "Congrats, you're the outlier."
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My Commander decks:
Chandra, Torch of Defiance - Oops! All Chandras.
Prime Speaker Zegana - Draw for Power.
Pir & Toothy - Counterpalooza.
Arcades, the Strategist - Another Brick in the Wall.
Zacama, Primal Calamity - Calamity of Double Mana.
Edgar Markov - Vampires Don't Die.
Child of Alara - Dreamcrusher.
I'm fully aware that the primary use of TA in competitive games isn't going to be to play "fun" cards, but that's not what the ban list purports to care about.
But in that case, doesn't the same go for Channel as well, as per the example I just listed?
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My Commander decks:
Chandra, Torch of Defiance - Oops! All Chandras.
Prime Speaker Zegana - Draw for Power.
Pir & Toothy - Counterpalooza.
Arcades, the Strategist - Another Brick in the Wall.
Zacama, Primal Calamity - Calamity of Double Mana.
Edgar Markov - Vampires Don't Die.
Child of Alara - Dreamcrusher.
Yet we also both know that nobody - or at least barely anybody - is just going to use Academy in order to power out the likes of Tromokratis. Saying people will do just that and then ignoring the same could be said for Channel is equally obtuse.
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My Commander decks:
Chandra, Torch of Defiance - Oops! All Chandras.
Prime Speaker Zegana - Draw for Power.
Pir & Toothy - Counterpalooza.
Arcades, the Strategist - Another Brick in the Wall.
Zacama, Primal Calamity - Calamity of Double Mana.
Edgar Markov - Vampires Don't Die.
Child of Alara - Dreamcrusher.
Yet we also both know that nobody - or at least barely anybody - is just going to use Academy in order to power out the likes of Tromokratis. Saying people will do just that and then ignoring the same could be said for Channel is equally obtuse.
Lou, you could argue that about any ramp, even Boundless Realms. To the point: arguing about what people ramp towards with an individual card is not a great road to go down because of how subjective it is to the player - Tromokratis is just as valid as Blightsteel Colossus in this exercise.
You do realize I responded to a post that basically said "Academy is fine because it ramps to a turn 3 Tromokratis", right?
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My Commander decks:
Chandra, Torch of Defiance - Oops! All Chandras.
Prime Speaker Zegana - Draw for Power.
Pir & Toothy - Counterpalooza.
Arcades, the Strategist - Another Brick in the Wall.
Zacama, Primal Calamity - Calamity of Double Mana.
Edgar Markov - Vampires Don't Die.
Child of Alara - Dreamcrusher.
Once the experiment is over, I'll post the results here to let everyone know what I learned.
Hey, guys. I want to let everyone know that I'm actually ending my experiment prematurely. I'm feeling really burned out of Magic lately, so much so that I'm really struggling to even complete this post, and I need to take a hiatus.
From the games I did play, I can say that Tolarian Academy was a card I thought I would enjoy playing, but actually turned out to be too broken for me to like. It was frequently a Gilded Lotus for 0, and sometimes it was Mirari's Wake. It was never a problem early game; in fact, it often led to me mulliganing more hands because of how poor it was early game in my deck, but it was so powerful during later stages of the game that I didn't have fun using it.
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WUBRGMr. Bones' Wild RideGRBUW Trap your friends in an endless game with this 23-card combo!
Once the experiment is over, I'll post the results here to let everyone know what I learned.
Hey, guys. I want to let everyone know that I'm actually ending my experiment prematurely. I'm feeling really burned out of Magic lately, so much so that I'm really struggling to even complete this post, and I need to take a hiatus.
From the games I did play, I can say that Tolarian Academy was a card I thought I would enjoy playing, but actually turned out to be too broken for me to like. It was frequently a Gilded Lotus for 0, and sometimes it was Mirari's Wake. It was never a problem early game; in fact, it often led to me mulliganing more hands because of how poor it was early game in my deck, but it was so powerful during later stages of the game that I didn't have fun using it.
Your analysis is spot on how I think the card would be - busted in late game and meh in early game unless amazing draws. But was it any worse than how Cradle and Sanctum behaves in decks that can benefit from them? Based off your example, I would argue they are the same.
But then you still run into the issue of "blue is better than green". Cradle probably produces more mana on average, but blue will be more resilient because there are less artifact board wipes, and blue can protect its own cards much better.
But then you still run into the issue of "blue is better than green". Cradle probably produces more mana on average, but blue will be more resilient because there are less artifact board wipes, and blue can protect its own cards much better.
My issue with that argument is that it is subjective to each individual deck. I do not agree that if a mono-blue deck sits down vs a mono-green deck that the blue deck will be inherently better just because of the color. And in mid-to-late game scenarios, you're most likely already into your colors and only care about the net mana you can generate so that you can drop bigger, powerful spells quicker, thus eliminating the benefit of blue vs green.
I would also argue that the amount of artifact/enchantment wipes is not as uncommon as a board wipe, at least in my experiences. Vandalblast, Bane of Progress, Merciless Eviction, and Aura Shards are some extremely common cards to come against now and days...
But then you still run into the issue of "blue is better than green". Cradle probably produces more mana on average, but blue will be more resilient because there are less artifact board wipes, and blue can protect its own cards much better.
There are less artifact wipes is irrelevant because there's enough to reasonably fill a deck with and they're of comparable quality. Blue is better than green doesn't really matter either when a lot of the meta is UG decks. In relatively casual decks, fastbond and Academy are basically just more Sol Rings that are harder to use. The only huge argument against it is that it will break the super competitive end even more but that isn't really an argument you can use for how the banned list is designed.
Is the RC actively seeking color balance here? I don't recall them talking about that. Wouldn't they say "that's Wizards job", "our vision not meant for tournament", etc?
Is the RC actively seeking color balance here? I don't recall them talking about that. Wouldn't they say "that's Wizards job", "our vision not meant for tournament", etc?
Never heard that myself, probably not something they really care about honestly.
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No. What you have done is deliberately ignore the numerous caveats I noted in my analysis that all drastically improve both the consistency of an early Academy, and the mana it will produce, in an attempt to attack the minimum expected effectiveness of Academy on turn 1 or 2. You do so while ignoring how much stronger it is , even then, relative to the other cards you frequently compare it to, and present the argument of "it's not a problem if you don't draw it".
Know what else isn't a problem if you don't draw it? Channel. Fastbond. Yawgmoth's Bargain.
Allow me to reitterate a major point you have continually ignored. In a deck adequately equipped to use Accademy (aka gains benefit reliably enough for it to be better than Island), it will show up once every six or so games around turn 2.
Of the games it shows up, it will produce three or more mana a significant amount of the time (roughly a third to quarter), and rarely produce less than two.
Because the significant majority of cards that allow it to produce mana early themselves produce mana, both on the same turn they are cast, and often in greater amounts than they cost, this very rapidly creates a snowball effect.
If you have Academy produce 2 mana on turn 2, you have 4 or more mana available that turn, and 8 or more on turn 3.
If you have Academy produce 3 mana on turn 2, you have 6 or more mana available that turn, and 12 or more on turn 3.
Colore
mana.
Nothing else legal in the format comes even close to the speed, consistency, or raw scale of the mana Academy will reliably generate in the first few turns.
Yes, Gaea's Cradle will probably generate more mana on turn 7 than Academy would have, if the Academy game had a turn 7.
A Dying Wish
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Chainer, Dementia Master
Muldrotha, the Gravetide
Atraxa, Praetors' Voice
You're going to see an uptick in the number of blue/x/x artifact decks who are all going to want to sample this unbanned "forbidden fruit"
Also, a lot more mono blue decks are going to alter their decks to include and abuse this card, because it is so powerful. (Granted, the mono blue decks I know already run a bunch of rocks).
And on the statistics of placing the land and being effective...it's not the consistency of the card that's frightening. It's the Christmas land openings, which people are going to Expedition Map, Demonic Tutor, Sylvan scrying their way into happening as often as possible, which will increase the odds of happening significantly. Trying to create the same opening on turn 1, 2, or 3 with cradle is enough of a hurdle that it isn't ban worthy.
If my post has no tags, then i posted from my phone.
Channel, Fastbond, Yawgmoth's Bargain are all broken on their own, without any support from other cards. TA requires other cards to be in play to make it broken. It requires a board state. There isn't much more to say regarding those three cards and how they are different.
You keep stressing '1/6 games' and I hate to counter you over and over, but saying that means you're grossly over-exaggerating. The math doesn't support that statement. You seem to forget if you factor in tutors, you have to also factor in that you HAVE to hit a 0 or 1 cmc card that makes enough mana. Let's take Expedition Map for the example - to get a T2, 2 U tap off of TA, you MUST hit Sol Ring, Mana Crypt, Ancient Tomb + 2 1 cmc artifacts, or Mana Vault. Let's also not forget you effectively need to start your hand with at least one or two (including the mana makers outlined before) 1 or 0 mana artifact in hand to make up for losing the map to the tutor. Run the math off that scenario, but remember you already start at 9.09% odds of drawing Expedition map by T2, which will end up being worse since you really need to open with it or draw it first turn, so use 8.08% instead (represents odds of drawing it in 8 cards). But also remember, you're opening hand is now down effectively 5 cards to hit that TA for 2 mana.
Going further: What is an 'adequately equipped' mono-U artifact deck to get a reliable T2 TA? A deck that runs just about every 0 and 1 drop artifacts? Okay, so then you just lost access to ~25 card slots in order to 'break' that one card. If someone did that, I would LOVE to play against that person, because any of my decks would most likely be able to beat it due to the fact that a deck built like that is going to be low in threat density and require 'god-draws' to be relevant to an average EDH deck.
Ultimately, you and the rest of the people against unbanning this card are trying to stress how broken it will be on a consistent basis in the early game - T2 seems to be the most argued broken turn. And once again I stress to you, the math doesn't add up to support your theories. Will it happen? Statistically yes, you're right it will happen, but how often it will happen is an important thing to understand. Should a card be banned because it can happen on 'god-draws'?
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RW Aurelia, The Warleader --- R Daretti, Scrap Savant --- RUB Thraximundar
Banings are almost entirely about what can be used with them. Even your example is actually a counter point. Ether the annihilators had to go or TA had to because of how they worked together. Would modern have banned sword of the meek if thopter foundry wasn't available? What a card can do on its own is very rarely the reason for the ban. That is why they have an R&D team. Granted there are a few big misses on there part *cough* jace, the mind sculptor. But for the most part its the combination of the environment and the power level.
Just let that sink in.
I personally think that Tolarian Academy should have been the fulcrum of the power level seesaw of the restricted list: if its stronger then ban it; if jot, let it rock. The edh comittee doesnt share my point of view.
I think the bigger issue here is that blue is objectively the best color in magic, and assuming you have a vast cardpool to build from, the amount of rediculous things you can do with an academy on turn 3 is a lot worse that what you can do witj a cradle or coffers on turn 3. With cradle or coffers, you are probably throwing a lot of power/ damage onto the table and messing up a permenant or two. With Tolarian mana, you have probably reloaded your hand once or twice after dropping 3-10 mana rocks, and are either threatening to storm the table, deaw someone out of the game, or drop a land equilibrium/ sphere & smokestack and pass the turn to stay ahead and virtually win.the game.
Blue esnt fight n the same axis as the other 4 colors of magic, and that the only things that makes those blue cards that dont fairer is their casting cost. That is what makes olarian scary. It made edh feel like legacy, except you replace the card brainstorm with Tolarian Academy. I dont think there is inherently anything wrong with that, but the number of tier 1 decks diminishes greatly when you have to pack you deck with cards strong enough to keep up.
Ironically, many of the cards that did are also banned.
Blue: teaching Magic players manners since 1995Shops: Teaching blue players manners since 2009
Yea, and I want Channel unbanned so I can power out a Draco. You and I both know that that argument won't fly in most of the games. Now I'm sure somebody here is going to reply "But I was going to do just that" to which I say "Congrats, you're the outlier."
Chandra, Torch of Defiance - Oops! All Chandras.
Prime Speaker Zegana - Draw for Power.
Pir & Toothy - Counterpalooza.
Arcades, the Strategist - Another Brick in the Wall.
Zacama, Primal Calamity - Calamity of Double Mana.
Edgar Markov - Vampires Don't Die.
Child of Alara - Dreamcrusher.
But in that case, doesn't the same go for Channel as well, as per the example I just listed?
Chandra, Torch of Defiance - Oops! All Chandras.
Prime Speaker Zegana - Draw for Power.
Pir & Toothy - Counterpalooza.
Arcades, the Strategist - Another Brick in the Wall.
Zacama, Primal Calamity - Calamity of Double Mana.
Edgar Markov - Vampires Don't Die.
Child of Alara - Dreamcrusher.
Chandra, Torch of Defiance - Oops! All Chandras.
Prime Speaker Zegana - Draw for Power.
Pir & Toothy - Counterpalooza.
Arcades, the Strategist - Another Brick in the Wall.
Zacama, Primal Calamity - Calamity of Double Mana.
Edgar Markov - Vampires Don't Die.
Child of Alara - Dreamcrusher.
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[RETIRED Primers]:
RW Aurelia, The Warleader --- R Daretti, Scrap Savant --- RUB Thraximundar
Chandra, Torch of Defiance - Oops! All Chandras.
Prime Speaker Zegana - Draw for Power.
Pir & Toothy - Counterpalooza.
Arcades, the Strategist - Another Brick in the Wall.
Zacama, Primal Calamity - Calamity of Double Mana.
Edgar Markov - Vampires Don't Die.
Child of Alara - Dreamcrusher.
Channel requires two green mana and a pool of life...
Academy requires you to have it and 1-2 artifacts that you can play in your hand for it to be good.
From the games I did play, I can say that Tolarian Academy was a card I thought I would enjoy playing, but actually turned out to be too broken for me to like. It was frequently a Gilded Lotus for 0, and sometimes it was Mirari's Wake. It was never a problem early game; in fact, it often led to me mulliganing more hands because of how poor it was early game in my deck, but it was so powerful during later stages of the game that I didn't have fun using it.
Trap your friends in an endless game with this 23-card combo!
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[RETIRED Primers]:
RW Aurelia, The Warleader --- R Daretti, Scrap Savant --- RUB Thraximundar
Misc. EDH Stuff: Commander Cube | Zombies (Horde)
Resources:Commander Rulings FAQ | Commander Deckbuilding Guide
Follow me on Twitter! @cryogen_mtg
I would also argue that the amount of artifact/enchantment wipes is not as uncommon as a board wipe, at least in my experiences. Vandalblast, Bane of Progress, Merciless Eviction, and Aura Shards are some extremely common cards to come against now and days...
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[RETIRED Primers]:
RW Aurelia, The Warleader --- R Daretti, Scrap Savant --- RUB Thraximundar
UR Melek, Izzet ParagonUR, B Shirei, Shizo's CaretakerB, R Jaya Ballard, Task MageR,RW Tajic, Blade of the LegionRW, UB Lazav, Dimir MastermindUB, UB Circu, Dimir LobotomistUB, RWU Zedruu the GreatheartedRWU, GUBThe MimeoplasmGUB, UGExperiment Kraj UG, WDarien, King of KjeldorW, BMarrow-GnawerB, WBGKarador, Ghost ChieftainWBG, UTeferi, Temporal ArchmageU, GWUDerevi, Empyrial TacticianGWU, RDaretti, Scrap SavantR, UTalrand, Sky SummonerU, GEzuri, Renegade LeaderG, WUBRGReaper KingWUBRG, RGXenagos, God of RevelsRG, CKozilek, Butcher of TruthC, WUBRGGeneral TazriWUBRG, GTitania, Protector of ArgothG
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[RETIRED Primers]:
RW Aurelia, The Warleader --- R Daretti, Scrap Savant --- RUB Thraximundar