So I had not pulled off a turn 1 win in over 50 games with deck recently which does not really bug me as the decks not built to try and win turn 1 it's ment to win turn 4 but I had been feeling overdue For a true god hand.. I did not get one in this particular game but it's perhaps the most insane turn 1 kill I've ever pulled off up until this point I do not think I have EVER mulled to less than 6 and pulled off a turn 1 win this game I mull to THREE. I have not lost a FFA game in some time with this deck I pitch a perfectly playable 7 because it had no ramp no tutor no cheap cantrips. It was the last hand I saw with more than 1 land I mull all the way down to a 0 land hand of LED windfall mana crypt. Wow that's about as perfect as it gets aside from led not being a land. Turn 1 top deck mana confluence YES! Now I feel great about my mulls this is by far better than any of the other hands I had so I go turn 1 windfall crack led for black for value and there it is a hand with lotus petal ponder gitaxian probe and doomsday!
Pile
LED
Nights whisper
Dark ritual
Yawgmoth's will
Lab man
Petal > ponder grab led
Led + probe grab whisper
Whisper into ritual yawg win
Led crack blue
Petal blue
Probe grabing lab man
Labman
Ponder ftw
Lesson of the day this is one if the many reasons you value crack led for black and not blue if your casting an early wheel with no extra mana! Here is the best part I played this game in paper and my buddy on zur had windfalled into a force of will and NO blue cards to pitch and his decks like all blue ;). God that felt good. About the only downside was " see cam this is why we don't play with mana crypt anymore your decks fine lets practice legacy " then he procedes ***** all over my DDFT decks life with his bug deck for a couple hours complaining that I won't play TES or ANT which he feels much more likely to play agianst. Anyway fun late night if testing but that commander game was the highlight of my night further proof that foils topdeck better
So SCG was fun crushed a few tables with one notably good arcum deck but I had turn 2 wheel cracking led into necro into t3 doomsday. Finally after crushing a few pods I run into another doomsday player on Oloro I best him the first time force his doomsday and cast minds desire twice at 8 and 16 storming off. The final game of the night he hands me my first loss in a long time in FFA thigh it felt very 1:1. after a epic back and forth battle with jeleva dying multiple wheels getting countered it felt pretty much like a 1v1 match aside from the girl
In the pod nuking my jeleva after he counters my first wheel effect which sucks because I had a winning line and it was the last time the Oloro player tapped out but he says he could have tutor flop topped into a force after so it wasnt in the bag either way line was hightide off jeleva into yawgwin tutor cantip grab frantic tutor fratic grabbing minds desire hitting at 8 under hightide but it dies. The last game was very interesting Was glad to meet him pretty cool guy. No hermit Druid decks mostly bad decks no tourney just pay pods but I made some money so I guess that's good. My buddy punted a game with ANT which is upsetting considering he never makes mistakes like that. The deck felt perfect I loved holding it in my hand and the only loss was the best game of the night by far every turn the tempo changed sometimes twice. The 2 games with josh the doomsday player were awesome games the rest sucked just me blowing people out which is annoying but o well good times.
Do you feel up to going into Doomsday stacks and timing? I want to include it, but I am reluctant because I know how my meta would just love to hose me when I try for something as risky as Doomsday.
I cannot remember the last time I resolved doomsday and lost where it was not just me punting. I use it all
The time it's a frequently used path to victory I tutor it less often than dedicated doomsday but I'll tutor to firm protected piles when I draw it almost every time. Including the cost of doomsday the card wins at 4-5 mana using led sometimes these piles can run single protection aginst spot removal only being weak to counters on yawgwin and even then your not dead yet. At 6-8 mana you get double and even triple protected piles based off your hand / board state. There is something to be said about the advantage mutiple avenues of victory brings to the table. Much like the evolution of splinter twin the decks needs to be unpredictable. When your only weapon is AD Nauseam it's not to hard to hold you down. My doomsday package is very tight and all
The cards add value to the deck even Labman is good in his own right as a kill condition making the deck more resultant to it's own wiffs with yawg win or jeleva as well as target deck hate and graveyard hose. Doomsday also provides the fastest kills in the deck. It is a very high skull card to be used with disgression. Sometimes your desperate and it's a great all in play other times it's the safest line you have. I have opened piles with literally every cantrip in the deck including spiral and remand. I'm fact the game I won hitting turn 2 necro off led I hit 0 cantrips I simply cast Labman after splitting to BBB with gilded lotus into voltaic key and necroed my doomsday pile into my hand with brainstorm gush FoW pact and swan song with open mana and win on the next guys upkeep. Considering we already want Labman to up our kill conditions there is not much reason to not run doomsday.
Sounds like your deck did exactly what you wanted it to this weekend , nice. You only play the 1 heavy blue player, I am kinda curious what facing a slew of counterspells does to your games. To bad about your friend on ANT, that is my favorite deck in legacy.
I haven't played blue storm since it came out, and I realize it has huge drawbacks for you, but have you ever trialed Treasure Cruise? Seems pretty slow for this deck and its a jab at yawg win, but their is no doubting its power.
Similarily, you ever build decks with bubbling muck shell instead of High Tide? You seem to really be digging the B mana to make the deck go crazy... just a random thought.
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Heavy counter is not good but it's not horrible ad Nausuam is the strongest line here as you can cast it as soon as you get a counter to protect it or a tap out because it's instant speed. I have not built around bubbling muck before might be interesting to try as far as black going crazy blue is the main color like it's just when your low on resource BBB has much more potential than UUU on wheels. Like at 6-7 mana you can now hit things like mom and minds desire but mainly I have some acces to blank rituals but not blue. Could be fun to play around with but I don't think it's close to as strong in general. Have been playing vintage storm decks on mtgo and Bryant's newer draw 4 iggy TES but with PiF that's been pretty fun to mess around with. Iggy is so good with mutiple LED. Either way my vintage / legacy testing is giving me a few ideas. The only place I have tests cruise so far is in my doomsday sideboard on legacy to fight hymn to torach decks and it's been pretty good. I dkng like the idea of eating my GY here or drawing a dead card in my opening hand when it's not online and honestly the other card dig through time looks better anyway the reach is far superior I may test that card first.
Mox, first of all thanks for answering all of my random questions. Played mtg from dark through mirrodin but sold off/gave away all my cards when I went to college. Got back into it 3 years or so ago. My first 'good' deck was a gr wort storm that was usually a 5-6 turn clock. I joined this site because of BobtheFunny's T&L spellslinger thread, and went into grixis tendrils decks from there with usually a 4-6 turn clock. I used legacy (not 1.5 anymore whaaa?) as an inspiration and just brewed from that. The guys who got me into it do well in other formats, but have a strict infinite policy in edh that I follow. Regardless of that, a lot of the strats Ive seen on this thread are similar and a bit more refined than those decks I brewed. These days I usually just goof around with storm trying to find a deck that is more fun to play against (My last was Jund based off earthcraft and altars trying to make as many goblins as I could- still took longer turns then I wanted.) I have been trying to come up with a non infinite storm deck that doesn't take really long kill turns. The folk at my kitchen table like the machinations of storm, but waiting 10 minutes to see if you get another turn seems a bit played out. I have been using this thread as a sounding board for random ideas- and well thanks for the constant and patient replays even when I have not offered many or any ideas that will be used in your grixis deck.
I feal kind of inspired to whip up another grixis storm with my tables rules after thinking about your deck a bit lately. Never went with HT before, do you think its worth it without abu duals (but with shocks and fetches) and no candelabra?
Also, Do you post about your vintage trials somewhere? I would be curious to read about that too (and where you read about cooks), do you use the fastbond gush shell? I stumbled on Fastbond/Gush/Lotus Cobra/Tendrils builds a bit ago and it looked like a really fun deck. ... hmm looks like teamstormboards lets me sign in as a guest now- Nice.meh thats not true, just applied.
No problem I like answering questions ask more. ANY input is invaluable to me. Prime examples are end us near mentioning I can target myself with probe. Do you have any idea how many how many people watched multiple videos where I state information that directly that I have no idea I can target myself with probe. That's a card I have used thousands of times and never knew it read player and not opponent. Bigbear simply recommending helm if awakening had me revisit a card a wrote off after a couple games that I now reassess as the single best 2 rock the deck can play. I'm only 1 person if you recommend 10 horrible things and 1 great thing you have done me a great service in making my deck stronger when I have hit a wall.
Bryant cook is a brilliant deck builder and player. I like to follow anything he's working on which is normally TES his thread is a great resource as are his older articles on storm. The storm boards will accept you soon that's mostly a anti spam bot. Once you have access the chats non existent at times but the information on those boards is wonderful.
High tide is a strong card in it's own right when your skewed blue fetching blue duals and basic islands due to your skew. 20% of my deck can hit islands that's the main number you care about with high tide. Losing sea really hurts if your deeper in red losing volc will really hurt. Being able to get off color mana on your untaps is huge espically since not all the lands you have out are always islands. Your loses are noticeable but that does not change the fact it's incredibly strong tech anyway. The first version of this deck I ever built was for my friend on a budget in just U/B no usea and much worse odds not having every fetch so down 5+ dual island outlets. High tide was still a killer card in the deck. Did his deck stumble on mana at times because he ran a high number of basics yes and it lost him games. Did he still win on turn 4 when he drew sol ring swamp fetch island ad Nauseam? Yes and when it did so in a non infinite manner the high tide engine was very common. Without seeing your deck list I give my blanket recommendation to high tide assuming your island subtyping count is high enough. In a high tide build for me your not even rocking cards like ancient tomb you want ever card that you don't need to color fix in your land slots to be island. This is why it's used in blue skew builds.
Long turns are the nature of storm. They want non infinite so assuming you cast tendrils an average of 2 times in 1 turn that's still 25-30 spells to kill the table. Just play faster
Edit : I have not posted on vintage I'm still learning all the things I can do in the storm shell. I like to goldfish with no rules and test out restricted cards in old list to see why things like having 4 brains storms in a deck like the long decks was so important. I love it though minds desire wins games at 3 storm lol.
Long turns are the nature of storm. They want non infinite so assuming you cast tendrils an average of 2 times in 1 turn that's still 25-30 spells to kill the table. Just play faster
Yah most my wins were some combo of big draw spells, try to get to 6-10 spells and minds desire, or just getting enough mana I can chain untapers/rituals through the deck - and yep all of these were casting like 30 spells on my turn. I really starting to wish I saved that list as the starting point for a new one.
Thinking I'll try to set up 2 lists, one with HT, and one tideless and post them here for critique when I am done. I really don't know what I am gonna do landbase-wise for the tide one, should be fun to figure out a way. It might take a week or 2, I am swamped with non magic obligations at the moment... and wow that storm boards is laoded with stuff to digest too.
High tide is a strong card in it's own right when your skewed blue fetching blue duals and basic islands due to your skew. 20% of my deck can hit islands that's the main number you care about with high tide. Losing sea really hurts if your deeper in red losing volc will really hurt. Being able to get off color mana on your untaps is huge espically since not all the lands you have out are always islands. Your loses are noticeable but that does not change the fact it's incredibly strong tech anyway. The first version of this deck I ever built was for my friend on a budget in just U/B no usea and much worse odds not having every fetch so down 5+ dual island outlets. High tide was still a killer card in the deck. Did his deck stumble on mana at times because he ran a high number of basics yes and it lost him games. Did he still win on turn 4 when he drew sol ring swamp fetch island ad Nauseam? Yes and when it did so in a non infinite manner the high tide engine was very common. Without seeing your deck list I give my blanket recommendation to high tide assuming your island subtyping count is high enough. In a high tide build for me your not even rocking cards like ancient tomb you want ever card that you don't need to color fix in your land slots to be island. This is why it's used in blue skew builds.
THis Paragraph has a lot of good info in it. Man it kills me to think I used to have a playset of volc islands and traded a royal assasin for u.sea + some change once. u.sea 215 on ebay...damn lol. Maybe ill borrow/proxy one to see if thats worth it for me. Last time i played grixis colors I relied a little more on red then you too. I could just use oona though red is pretty fun...ooph. LOts of figuring out to do.
Man it kills me to think I used to have a playset of volc islands and traded a royal assasin for u.sea + some change once. u.sea 215 on ebay...damn lol. Maybe ill borrow/proxy one to see if thats worth it for me. Last time i played grixis colors I relied a little more on red then you too. I could just use oona though red is pretty fun...ooph. LOts of figuring out to do.
..and to think I traded my Bazaar of Baghdad for a set of mana birds... I wanna cry now.
Anyhow, I was wondering if any of you guys think Dualcaster Mage might be useful in this? I have been debating building a NiN combo deck for him, but figured I would bounce this idea off you guys first.
Dual caster Mage is underwhelming. There are better cards with the copy effect at 3 and cheaper ones at 2 and even at 2 I don't see that effect getting slots in my deck. This deck cares not about the creature typing and the effect feels win more in general.
Have not had a ton of time to invest to magic lately but I finally got some paper games in this week. The pod size was 5 players. I had never played with them before but the guy who invited me did so with a " we all have mana crypts etc were very competitive group" comment so I had high hopes . The first game they were not prepared I open hand ad Nauseam mana drain and dark ritual I counter a turn 2 skyshroud claim off sol
Ring and go all in with dark ritual with no land in hand I hit the nuts my first. 5 draws had mana crypt mox opal and mox Diamond victory me ;). The second game I mull to 5 and keep a hand with fetch candelabra volcanic island windfall Dimir signet . I draw into a land and a chain of vapor. I go for a turn 3 windfall but it eats a condescend. I play jeleva 2 turns in a row topping lands she's dies before my turn both times due to her hitting gross cards from multiple decks the first stack of cards had my recurring insight and some guys time warp . Either way I lose to tooth and nail turn 6? The last game we played I have some fairly dead cards in my hand but I keep just because I have sol ring talisman 2 lands and time spiral. I drop a turn 2 jeleva and she hits my AD Nauseam. I attempt to cast time spiral turn 3 it eats a counterspell which is questionable considering I have ad Nauseam but I guess the spiral would have shuffled in his counterspell I don't know how dense he is in that department. Either way I hit to 19 life play a mox Diamond and mana crypt and use intuition to grab hightide force of will and pact of negation they give me the high tide. My jeleva dies and they hose my GY so I just dump my hand to mind's desire and hit future sight and doomsday. Fun games hope to get to play with them some more. Deck felt fine didn't want to make any changes jeleva continuing to do more and more work as I test against stronger opponents multiple times.
Played 5 games on mtgo won all 5 by turn 4 but considering I was only taking 3 or so spells from other players over the course if those turns made it feel like gold fishing. Even posting competitive in the games gets all noobs, it's getting pretty difficult to get anywhere tuning wise. On the bright side the hands I'm getting are insanely good. Last game dude drops ascendant starts bashing me . I played turn 1 commander tower gamble a mana crypt randomly bin tide spout crypt into candel. Turn 2 plop watery grave pass Have notion wheel combo in hand Theif eats STP on my wheel. I mox Diamond and frantic search out a necropotence grip 7 more. Necro eats it guy tried to bounce my candels to hightide I rand it then ponder a scroll pop turn about into yawgwin into minds desire for 20+. So the deck feels solid but I'm playing less and less online as it feels like a waste now that I'm just fine tuning and meta decking.
So after quite a bit of testing I have added Dig through time too the deck. At first I cut a swamp but that was horrible because my mana was perfect but I mainly just felt the swamp was very weak so I changed the swamp slot to underground river and I like that much better. The other change is much larger i have cut my 4th kill condition in favor of dig through time. Both serve as a gas slot since the largest thing you lose out on cutting tide spout is a card you want of minds desire and DTT fits that bill. Tide spout can come back in at anytime but i cannot remember the last time i saw the card sadistic sacrament cast on me and that's a large part of why i ran it. Mainly it lets me make an on curve swap for ad nuaseam gets rid of the weakest draw in my deck for the early game and in all honesty getting a tide spout bribed. I tested it with these swaps and the deck felt great every time I drew dig i was glad it was dig and not TT. In fact in my closest matches it won me games period. I did not miss TT at all so far ive had some great 1:1 matches against incredible starts from my opponents and made some amazing comebacks i might make another video with some of those matches in there unfortunately the best ones bug at the end and it wheels me into cards i didn't have and it just says i win which is pretty annoying but not surprising ever since they changed the mtgo client replays have sucked in fact the new client is just garbage in general i still absolutely hate it. anyway
- Swamp
- Tidespout Tyrant
+ Underground River
+ Dig Through Time
Hey man, I'm glad that you're having so much fun with your deck. It's a list that I've repeatedly looked at in trying out a few storm shells, but Ihaven't quite found it to be built in a way that I like.
So, I have a question for you. How necessary do you feel the Spiral Tide element of the deck is? Could you do it a different way or not? Because I'd like to build a storm deck, but I don't like the Sprial Tide aspect of the deck (someone else already plays it in my group and I don't want to be that guy).
So after quite a bit of testing I have added Dig through time too the deck. At first I cut a swamp but that was horrible because my mana was perfect but I mainly just felt the swamp was very weak so I changed the swamp slot to underground river and I like that much better. The other change is much larger i have cut my 4th kill condition in favor of dig through time. Both serve as a gas slot since the largest thing you lose out on cutting tide spout is a card you want of minds desire and DTT fits that bill. Tide spout can come back in at anytime but i cannot remember the last time i saw the card sadistic sacrament cast on me and that's a large part of why i ran it. Mainly it lets me make an on curve swap for ad nuaseam gets rid of the weakest draw in my deck for the early game and in all honesty getting a tide spout bribed. I tested it with these swaps and the deck felt great every time I drew dig i was glad it was dig and not TT. In fact in my closest matches it won me games period. I did not miss TT at all so far ive had some great 1:1 matches against incredible starts from my opponents and made some amazing comebacks i might make another video with some of those matches in there unfortunately the best ones bug at the end and it wheels me into cards i didn't have and it just says i win which is pretty annoying but not surprising ever since they changed the mtgo client replays have sucked in fact the new client is just garbage in general i still absolutely hate it. anyway
- Swamp
- Tidespout Tyrant
+ Underground River
+ Dig Through Time
I'm a little shocked you cut TT. You love that card!
But it makes sense. Especially from a CMC, Ad Naus viewpoint.
I do love that card and i do not like losing a kill condition. As bad as losing a close game where i run out of kill conditions may feel it was simply to expensive and most times the worst draw in the deck. DTT has proven to be excellent in fact i just played a game where i was pressing for the win mid game I emptied my hand to a wheel and it met a counter spell I had 2 mana left open and the only card in my had was dig I pitched my yard at instant speed and found gas resulting in me winning the game the very next turn. The mana curve is very important as are my mana proportions and the deck feels as mean and lean as ever with nothing im paying more than 6 for.
As to the question about the hightide tech. I would not feel like that guy for also wanting to use some of the best rituals in the format that's what the tech really is. I think its the best storm engine available and while you can replace it with other rituals or engines i don't think they would be as strong. That being said storm is a very powerful archetype in this format and you would still have a very competitive deck however i tutor the card hightide just as much if not more than any card in this deck it's a huge part of how this deck is built from its mana on up. Its a blue format and hightide is your best way of producing blue mana the only real blue ritual, I would not let one player be the only one to get to use something like that just because he got there first.
Edit: yep played another game most important card was high tide yet again went form mediocre hand to instant win via hightide. if you decide not to use it you will want to change the deck quite a bit.
turn 1 island mana vault
turn 2 candalbra + mox opal + preordain find second island play island
turn 3 brick on land pop mana vault to intuition for wheel twisiter windfall gives twister. pop it right away hit time spiral merhcant scroll CoV grim tutor fetchland island dimir signet end of opponents turn cast cov on my mana vault
turn 4 > cast entire hand grim tutor jsut got more mana via turn about spiral hits windfall time twister mind over matter future sight voltaic key play all those wheel again > grim tutor > minds desire at ~20 palming remand they quit
High Tide is possibly the best storm enabling card in the format...it turns so many cards that already have high value into rituals...Snap, Frantic Search, Turnabout, Time Spiral. I usually try to cast High Tide at least twice in a storm turn.
Hell, its good in any blue deck. I've gotten so bored with Oloro being LabMan combos that I'm thinking of adding a Tidespout Tyrant package and High Tide will for sure be a part.
Mana Denial Counter spells graveyard hate rule of law but mostly smart players especially if they know what your playing already that being said i feel confident against any strategy and can make slight meta deck changes if needed. For the most part you have to stop me from refilling my hand in some way shape or form but the decks very dense in that department and is efficient enough to top a tutor or wheel or yawgwin type card and instant win out of nowhere even when being kept down and if you don't bam jeleva. I would play it any day against any deck its powerful its fun can take games at any table and would just stomp most players when played correctly. In a consistent meta i would be playing 4 kill conditions to avoid the card sadistic sacrament if they brought that in. IF they all play winter orb play a couple more artifact kills. The core of this deck is very strong.
Dig Through Time continues to impress me and what's even better is swamp > river was a very good change as well both have won me games I may have other wise lost small changes huge impact. The game I just played my opener had mana drain island underground river recurring insight and the U stole the game. I played a game where I had 8 life left after a grotesque mistake with led and yawg win turn 4 setting me behind . By turn 8 I am at like 8 life with city of brass underground river and a bunch of island duals and an island tutor with imperial seal flop my top grabbing high tide on nothing left but a wheel and turnabout turn about into wheel I have tons of mana just need a way to get minds desire off or chain into future top or doomsday hit lands mana vault seething song and a single tutor merchant scroll at first I'm a little sad as I have no cantrip then I remember i added Dig I grab it cast it find grim tutor and remand good game dig saves my ass at 1 life. Being targetable by merchant scroll is pretty huge for me. Got lots of games in today a lot if them were very close dig got cast in quite a few and I have never payed more than UU yet. So both cards have earned thier slots permanently.
Played quite a few games over last few days deck feels perfect. a few epic come backs in longer grindy games a lot of blow outs and games with my back against the wall and i mange to pull out.
The last game I played on my 4th turn everyone had tapped out i had an opening.... I take it lets see if you can figure it out
i have just cast ponder and i know im about to draw a dark ritual
I decided to make a Jeleva deck myself, and used your list as a starting off point. I diverged in a few places, but overall you've got a very solid core here. Thanks for all your hard work.
Your welcome I hope you enjoy it the core is indeed rock solid
Glad to hear it.
As a side note after playing her quite a long time she feels a lot like damia if you cast her when your chips are down she tells players already holding you down answer me or lose. typically she must be removed or steals the game back for you I've come to absolutely love her and I can't think of scarier cards to see under her than things like Ad Nauseam. Best part is any wiff or bad thing I can imagine happening would be worse to top deck when you need her baring her death with your lucky gas topdeck waiting.
Hmmm... conisdering that Jeleva is mainly just support to the core storm/combo pieces of the deck... do you think your list can be trimmed down to fit Tiny Leaders? :)) Tetsuo Umezawa will carry the banner this time
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Pile
LED
Nights whisper
Dark ritual
Yawgmoth's will
Lab man
Petal > ponder grab led
Led + probe grab whisper
Whisper into ritual yawg win
Led crack blue
Petal blue
Probe grabing lab man
Labman
Ponder ftw
Lesson of the day this is one if the many reasons you value crack led for black and not blue if your casting an early wheel with no extra mana! Here is the best part I played this game in paper and my buddy on zur had windfalled into a force of will and NO blue cards to pitch and his decks like all blue ;). God that felt good. About the only downside was " see cam this is why we don't play with mana crypt anymore your decks fine lets practice legacy " then he procedes ***** all over my DDFT decks life with his bug deck for a couple hours complaining that I won't play TES or ANT which he feels much more likely to play agianst. Anyway fun late night if testing but that commander game was the highlight of my night further proof that foils topdeck better
Damia http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=410191
DDFT Legacyhttp://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=505247
Domain Zoo http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?p=10212429#post10212429
In the pod nuking my jeleva after he counters my first wheel effect which sucks because I had a winning line and it was the last time the Oloro player tapped out but he says he could have tutor flop topped into a force after so it wasnt in the bag either way line was hightide off jeleva into yawgwin tutor cantip grab frantic tutor fratic grabbing minds desire hitting at 8 under hightide but it dies. The last game was very interesting Was glad to meet him pretty cool guy. No hermit Druid decks mostly bad decks no tourney just pay pods but I made some money so I guess that's good. My buddy punted a game with ANT which is upsetting considering he never makes mistakes like that. The deck felt perfect I loved holding it in my hand and the only loss was the best game of the night by far every turn the tempo changed sometimes twice. The 2 games with josh the doomsday player were awesome games the rest sucked just me blowing people out which is annoying but o well good times.
Damia http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=410191
DDFT Legacyhttp://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=505247
Domain Zoo http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?p=10212429#post10212429
Do you feel up to going into Doomsday stacks and timing? I want to include it, but I am reluctant because I know how my meta would just love to hose me when I try for something as risky as Doomsday.
..
Azusa - Derevi - Glissa - Mizzix - Sharuum - Wanderer - Wort
The time it's a frequently used path to victory I tutor it less often than dedicated doomsday but I'll tutor to firm protected piles when I draw it almost every time. Including the cost of doomsday the card wins at 4-5 mana using led sometimes these piles can run single protection aginst spot removal only being weak to counters on yawgwin and even then your not dead yet. At 6-8 mana you get double and even triple protected piles based off your hand / board state. There is something to be said about the advantage mutiple avenues of victory brings to the table. Much like the evolution of splinter twin the decks needs to be unpredictable. When your only weapon is AD Nauseam it's not to hard to hold you down. My doomsday package is very tight and all
The cards add value to the deck even Labman is good in his own right as a kill condition making the deck more resultant to it's own wiffs with yawg win or jeleva as well as target deck hate and graveyard hose. Doomsday also provides the fastest kills in the deck. It is a very high skull card to be used with disgression. Sometimes your desperate and it's a great all in play other times it's the safest line you have. I have opened piles with literally every cantrip in the deck including spiral and remand. I'm fact the game I won hitting turn 2 necro off led I hit 0 cantrips I simply cast Labman after splitting to BBB with gilded lotus into voltaic key and necroed my doomsday pile into my hand with brainstorm gush FoW pact and swan song with open mana and win on the next guys upkeep. Considering we already want Labman to up our kill conditions there is not much reason to not run doomsday.
Damia http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=410191
DDFT Legacyhttp://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=505247
Domain Zoo http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?p=10212429#post10212429
I haven't played blue storm since it came out, and I realize it has huge drawbacks for you, but have you ever trialed Treasure Cruise? Seems pretty slow for this deck and its a jab at yawg win, but their is no doubting its power.
Similarily, you ever build decks with bubbling muck shell instead of High Tide? You seem to really be digging the B mana to make the deck go crazy... just a random thought.
Gitrog Lands
Merieke Ri Berit Flicker
Ramos, Dragon Engine Storm
Damia http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=410191
DDFT Legacyhttp://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=505247
Domain Zoo http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?p=10212429#post10212429
I feal kind of inspired to whip up another grixis storm with my tables rules after thinking about your deck a bit lately. Never went with HT before, do you think its worth it without abu duals (but with shocks and fetches) and no candelabra?
Also, Do you post about your vintage trials somewhere? I would be curious to read about that too (and where you read about cooks), do you use the fastbond gush shell? I stumbled on Fastbond/Gush/Lotus Cobra/Tendrils builds a bit ago and it looked like a really fun deck. ...
hmm looks like teamstormboards lets me sign in as a guest now- Nice.meh thats not true, just applied.Gitrog Lands
Merieke Ri Berit Flicker
Ramos, Dragon Engine Storm
Bryant cook is a brilliant deck builder and player. I like to follow anything he's working on which is normally TES his thread is a great resource as are his older articles on storm. The storm boards will accept you soon that's mostly a anti spam bot. Once you have access the chats non existent at times but the information on those boards is wonderful.
High tide is a strong card in it's own right when your skewed blue fetching blue duals and basic islands due to your skew. 20% of my deck can hit islands that's the main number you care about with high tide. Losing sea really hurts if your deeper in red losing volc will really hurt. Being able to get off color mana on your untaps is huge espically since not all the lands you have out are always islands. Your loses are noticeable but that does not change the fact it's incredibly strong tech anyway. The first version of this deck I ever built was for my friend on a budget in just U/B no usea and much worse odds not having every fetch so down 5+ dual island outlets. High tide was still a killer card in the deck. Did his deck stumble on mana at times because he ran a high number of basics yes and it lost him games. Did he still win on turn 4 when he drew sol ring swamp fetch island ad Nauseam? Yes and when it did so in a non infinite manner the high tide engine was very common. Without seeing your deck list I give my blanket recommendation to high tide assuming your island subtyping count is high enough. In a high tide build for me your not even rocking cards like ancient tomb you want ever card that you don't need to color fix in your land slots to be island. This is why it's used in blue skew builds.
Long turns are the nature of storm. They want non infinite so assuming you cast tendrils an average of 2 times in 1 turn that's still 25-30 spells to kill the table. Just play faster
Edit : I have not posted on vintage I'm still learning all the things I can do in the storm shell. I like to goldfish with no rules and test out restricted cards in old list to see why things like having 4 brains storms in a deck like the long decks was so important. I love it though minds desire wins games at 3 storm lol.
Damia http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=410191
DDFT Legacyhttp://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=505247
Domain Zoo http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?p=10212429#post10212429
Thinking I'll try to set up 2 lists, one with HT, and one tideless and post them here for critique when I am done. I really don't know what I am gonna do landbase-wise for the tide one, should be fun to figure out a way. It might take a week or 2, I am swamped with non magic obligations at the moment... and wow that storm boards is laoded with stuff to digest too.
THis Paragraph has a lot of good info in it. Man it kills me to think I used to have a playset of volc islands and traded a royal assasin for u.sea + some change once. u.sea 215 on ebay...damn lol. Maybe ill borrow/proxy one to see if thats worth it for me. Last time i played grixis colors I relied a little more on red then you too. I could just use oona though red is pretty fun...ooph. LOts of figuring out to do.
Gitrog Lands
Merieke Ri Berit Flicker
Ramos, Dragon Engine Storm
..and to think I traded my Bazaar of Baghdad for a set of mana birds... I wanna cry now.
Anyhow, I was wondering if any of you guys think Dualcaster Mage might be useful in this? I have been debating building a NiN combo deck for him, but figured I would bounce this idea off you guys first.
..
Azusa - Derevi - Glissa - Mizzix - Sharuum - Wanderer - Wort
Damia http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=410191
DDFT Legacyhttp://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=505247
Domain Zoo http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?p=10212429#post10212429
Ring and go all in with dark ritual with no land in hand I hit the nuts my first. 5 draws had mana crypt mox opal and mox Diamond victory me ;). The second game I mull to 5 and keep a hand with fetch candelabra volcanic island windfall Dimir signet . I draw into a land and a chain of vapor. I go for a turn 3 windfall but it eats a condescend. I play jeleva 2 turns in a row topping lands she's dies before my turn both times due to her hitting gross cards from multiple decks the first stack of cards had my recurring insight and some guys time warp . Either way I lose to tooth and nail turn 6? The last game we played I have some fairly dead cards in my hand but I keep just because I have sol ring talisman 2 lands and time spiral. I drop a turn 2 jeleva and she hits my AD Nauseam. I attempt to cast time spiral turn 3 it eats a counterspell which is questionable considering I have ad Nauseam but I guess the spiral would have shuffled in his counterspell I don't know how dense he is in that department. Either way I hit to 19 life play a mox Diamond and mana crypt and use intuition to grab hightide force of will and pact of negation they give me the high tide. My jeleva dies and they hose my GY so I just dump my hand to mind's desire and hit future sight and doomsday. Fun games hope to get to play with them some more. Deck felt fine didn't want to make any changes jeleva continuing to do more and more work as I test against stronger opponents multiple times.
Damia http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=410191
DDFT Legacyhttp://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=505247
Domain Zoo http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?p=10212429#post10212429
Damia http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=410191
DDFT Legacyhttp://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=505247
Domain Zoo http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?p=10212429#post10212429
- Swamp
- Tidespout Tyrant
+ Underground River
+ Dig Through Time
Damia http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=410191
DDFT Legacyhttp://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=505247
Domain Zoo http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?p=10212429#post10212429
So, I have a question for you. How necessary do you feel the Spiral Tide element of the deck is? Could you do it a different way or not? Because I'd like to build a storm deck, but I don't like the Sprial Tide aspect of the deck (someone else already plays it in my group and I don't want to be that guy).
UB Dralnu, Lich Lord
RBW [Primer]-Kaalia of the Vast
BUG [Primer]-Tasigur, the Golden Fang
GWU [Primer]-Arcades, the Strategist
WUB Primer-Aminatou, the Fateshifter
UBR Nicol Bolas, the Ravager
I'm a little shocked you cut TT. You love that card!
But it makes sense. Especially from a CMC, Ad Naus viewpoint.
EDH Decks:
WUBOloro, Combo ControlWUB
UBOona Reanimator ComboUB
BRGProssh, Eater of the Blue MageBRG
UBRGrixis StormUBR
Rebuilding Jenara (stealyourstuff.dec)
Pauper Deck:
UBInspired SirenUB
As to the question about the hightide tech. I would not feel like that guy for also wanting to use some of the best rituals in the format that's what the tech really is. I think its the best storm engine available and while you can replace it with other rituals or engines i don't think they would be as strong. That being said storm is a very powerful archetype in this format and you would still have a very competitive deck however i tutor the card hightide just as much if not more than any card in this deck it's a huge part of how this deck is built from its mana on up. Its a blue format and hightide is your best way of producing blue mana the only real blue ritual, I would not let one player be the only one to get to use something like that just because he got there first.
Edit: yep played another game most important card was high tide yet again went form mediocre hand to instant win via hightide. if you decide not to use it you will want to change the deck quite a bit.
turn 1 island mana vault
turn 2 candalbra + mox opal + preordain find second island play island
turn 3 brick on land pop mana vault to intuition for wheel twisiter windfall gives twister. pop it right away hit time spiral merhcant scroll CoV grim tutor fetchland island dimir signet end of opponents turn cast cov on my mana vault
turn 4 > cast entire hand grim tutor jsut got more mana via turn about spiral hits windfall time twister mind over matter future sight voltaic key play all those wheel again > grim tutor > minds desire at ~20 palming remand they quit
Damia http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=410191
DDFT Legacyhttp://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=505247
Domain Zoo http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?p=10212429#post10212429
Hell, its good in any blue deck. I've gotten so bored with Oloro being LabMan combos that I'm thinking of adding a Tidespout Tyrant package and High Tide will for sure be a part.
EDH Decks:
WUBOloro, Combo ControlWUB
UBOona Reanimator ComboUB
BRGProssh, Eater of the Blue MageBRG
UBRGrixis StormUBR
Rebuilding Jenara (stealyourstuff.dec)
Pauper Deck:
UBInspired SirenUB
Jarad Graveyard Combo[Primer]!
Sidisi ANT!
Playing Commander to Win - A guide on Competitive, 4-player EDH
LandDestruction.com - An EDH blog
Damia http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=410191
DDFT Legacyhttp://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=505247
Domain Zoo http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?p=10212429#post10212429
Damia http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=410191
DDFT Legacyhttp://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=505247
Domain Zoo http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?p=10212429#post10212429
The last game I played on my 4th turn everyone had tapped out i had an opening.... I take it lets see if you can figure it out
i have just cast ponder and i know im about to draw a dark ritual
my hand was
I will draw
dark ritual
i have no land drop for the turn my board state is
badlands mana confluence command tower
win the game this turn
How I won
Tap badlands cast Dark ritual BBB
Cast Doomsday
Pile
Tap mana confluence cast brainstorm put down time spiral and gush drawing Lion's Eye Diamond lotus petal and ponder
cast Lion's Eye Diamond and lotus petal
Tap command tower cast ponder cracking lotus petal and Lion's Eye Diamond for UUUB ponder finds Yawgmoth's Will
cast yawgwin floating > U
cast Lion's Eye Diamond cast lotus petal
Crack Lion's Eye Diamond > UUUU
Crack Lotus petal> UUUUU
cast ponder > grab Laboratory maniac UUUU
Cast Laboratory maniac > U
Cast Brainstorm > GG
Damia http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=410191
DDFT Legacyhttp://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=505247
Domain Zoo http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?p=10212429#post10212429
Glad to hear it.
As a side note after playing her quite a long time she feels a lot like damia if you cast her when your chips are down she tells players already holding you down answer me or lose. typically she must be removed or steals the game back for you I've come to absolutely love her and I can't think of scarier cards to see under her than things like Ad Nauseam. Best part is any wiff or bad thing I can imagine happening would be worse to top deck when you need her baring her death with your lucky gas topdeck waiting.
Damia http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=410191
DDFT Legacyhttp://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=505247
Domain Zoo http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?p=10212429#post10212429