If I'm going to re-include the usual combo, we need to think of a way to protect Animar from most of the tier decks. I'm still tweaking the list and without the usual "cheap" creatures, it's indeed slower than usual. At the same time, I get to go head to head with other decks with some interesting setbacks like I've managed to sweep Edric or control other creatures.
I've added Char, Painter's Servant and such since I posted the deck yesterday. With my current spot removal and counters, the spell categories seem to be solid. Right now, I want to re-include the Eldrazis or at least getting big creatures asap.
Yes, the deck is not as the same as it was originally intended, but it's still in the early stages.
Hmm? People aren't just now discovering stuff like Perish, Wrath and Bolts. Who do you actually think got Evergreen to run 7 wraths ;p
I think though that you're going a little over the top with your changes in the pursuit of protection, so much so that you're crippling yourself, and giving your opponent a lot of breathing room. What matchups have you been having particular problems with?
My current match up is here and there. So far, I've managed to play an Edric which, of course, I lose my ammo due I've landed a mana pocket... and of course spending my Grim Lavamancer popping Edric every single time using every single creatures that he countered mine and fetch lands. That was using my old list. In the end of that game, I lose due for having no hand at all.
Same goes with Azusa using my old list. I ran out of juice with noncreature spells, but the beating went down to 1 until he managed to grab something big.
It made me think that since our current strategy is to wait it out. What I found out is that I don't really need a lot of counters, just a handful of them.
It's kind of ironic how quite frequently at 31 lands mana flooding is still an issue huh?
What I notice in particular with your list is that you lack many of the essential creatures/card advantage effects that give the deck more reach, namely:
Sage of Epityr
Fierce Empath
Kozilek
Eye of Ugin
Coiling Oracle
Raven Famliar
Sea Gate Oracle
Augury Owl
Owl Familiar
Sylvan Ranger
Phantasmal Image
Fathom Seer
Gush
Chord of Calling
Shared Discovery
Glimpse of Nature
Green Sun's Zenith
Sylvan Tutor
You basically just gutted the deck of all the cards that keep the cogs spinning, which in return makes a lot of matches harder. Burn is a manageable and quite favorable matchup, despite Animar being largely side-lined. They simply have very little to deal with Primeval Titan, among others. Being as the prime strategy against Edric is to do a reverse combo and force them into a draw-go state, the biggest tech cards are things like Rofellos, Gaea's Herald, Orc Lumberjack, Bloom Tender, and Earthcraft that all shut down counter spell time walks. Likewise, 1 mana anti-counter cards are also very strong.
Some examples:
Flusterstorm
Daze
Spell Pierce
Misdirection
Divert
On a side note, Gitaxian Probe has been completely insane. Give it a try.
Also, Phantasmal Image kills Edric, among other generals and is obscenely synergistic. It's just really good.
Anyway, my main advice, if anything, is to test various tech/control cards, but maybe in more moderation, and certainly not by tossing away all the cantrips. There's probably around ~25 flexible slots, of which only maybe 7 are truly open.
I've been using different strategy on and off for the past few days. My report posted last night is based from my old decklist. With constant test driving, I've been mainstreaming my list to the point that it went back to imperial design with burn and counters added... although at the cost of removing some certain cantrips.
Today, I've faced zoo Edrics. He primetimed on turn 3 using Gaea land and Lotus Cobra is a bit onesided for me... in 2 games straight. My hands contains the typical Animar creatures which can't do anything to do that time.
A different Edric zoo that I've faced today before I left which I won with Grim, FoW. And again facing a different Edric deck, I've managed to use Painter Servant and Kira to lock my opponents since he emptied his hand with my counters.
With that, I'm looking for a way, to make it more streamlined. My testing with my deck is getting better as days progressed. It might the same as your deck, but the strategy is still there.
Thoughts on Cave of Elements and Somberwald Sage? Sage nets a lot of mana if we untap with it, could be Bloom Tender #2. Cave gives us an uncounterable Animar (and Mulldrifter and Slithermuse, or whatever else the situation call for when we play it (lots of elves, etc).
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Standard: Humanimator
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EDH: Ruhan of the Fomori, Hazezon Tamar, Maga, Traitor to Mortals
Well, I do like the concept of cave of elements, but it's still awkward. It really just depends on the meta. If everyone runs this, and heavy control loses the lime light, I probably just won't bother. I'm actually more worried that it'll encourage more animar tech like bounce, shackles, jitte, and spot removal to compensate.
Seeing as how you have enough basics to justify Earthcraft, could Magus of the Moon be good enough?
It seems like this deck would really take advantage of such a powerful mana short, especially on a tutorable body. It does shut off your non basics but if your opponent can't cast any spells and you can, then Eye of Ugin in win more anyways. It's also awesome to float all your mana, cast magus for R and then use your nonred mana, passing the turn to an opponent with essentially no lands if they arn't playing red.
Well, Earthcraft is seriously scary, and doesn't require as much as a commitment as Magus of the Moon. Because of the land-typing requirements of the deck, the first 2 lands almost always incorporate 1-2 duals, typically Tropical and Taiga. If I draw into Earthcraft, it's easy to tutor a basic land with fetches and other effects, and I only really needed 1 basic land in play to win off of it.
Magus on the other hand, requires you to commit to tutoring basics immediately, which makes it harder to cast Animar, and makes it a dead draw if you draw it after the first 2 turns. Also, most Blue decks in the format run heavy island counts, burn is unaffected, mono black doesn't care, and I am having serious problems thinking of a matchup in which magus isn't a win-more card.
The new land is bit awkward for me too. The new set doesn't any new oomph card except Somberwald Sag
Might not work, but I might Craterhoof Behemoth in the deck just for giggles.
The problem with Animar is how lucky your opponents are. My third round is just plainly bad luck when they use LD on turn 1 aura-ed land. That pretty much lose my tempo and the game.
Yea, I don't really think that the new lands has a place in the deck tbh. It just ends up being a dead card way too often. On the bright side, there is at least one new gem in Avacyn. Alchemist's Apprentice looks promising, as just simply a better Owl Familiar, although I'd somewhat like to run both if able.
I'm not really sure the god hand factor is just an Animar problem haha. We do though, at the very least, win the consistency war, so it's not that big of a deal for the most part. Also, it sounds like you could have just tutored up a basic forest for utopia sprawl and avoided getting blown out by wasteland.
Nah Maze of Ith is a complete joke against Animar. It looses straight up to multiple ulamogs, which is quite easy to pull off. Also, it doesn't stop Annihilator. Want to know some sick tech? You can redirect Maze of Ith to Spellskite. Celebrate your opponent playing Maze, it's actually a really good thing for you.
As far as Council and whatnot, I have no idea where your list sits atm, but imo I'd rather have something like Owl Familiar over council any day.
For reference, here's a copy of the current list I'm running in the MTGS EDH tournament. It's unorganized, just a simple cockatrice paste.
My list is largely unchanged from a few pages back. I'll post it later, though, with some changes. I tried dudes like Owl Familiar and Vodalian Merchant but have since changed them for dudes that actually draw cards like Merchant and Council. I know Spellskite can get you through (though it has to be attacking to be a valid target) but in this case he had already killed it. Maybe Baboons is overkill; after all I did win the game via Ulamogs in the end (though this isn't that easy to pull off, especially against Teferi), but the Mazes were a real pain. Some kind of mana denial would be nice in this deck, though, but perhaps that's a different build altogether, some kind of Animar Ponza.
Anyway I went 3-1 in that tournament beating Teferi, Skittles and Kresh, and losing in the last round to the Rafiq deck that went undefeated. I'll post a report and the list later, on the bus on my iPhone atm. What are your thoughts on Voidmage Husher and Vesuvan Shapeshifter? Husher is great against Maze and random stuff like Brittle Effigy (which is what removed my Spellskite). Shapeshifter is a free dude and clones are always nice.
As for a report there really isn't much to say, Kresh and Skittles especially just got steamrolled. Fast mana plus Kessig Wolf Run and a big Animar won me both against Kresh (Orcish Lumberjack was an all-star here, keeping me out of range of his Tech Edge and getting me the mana to win, and Imperial combo into Ulamog won me both games against Skittles. Teferi I beat fast one game after Dazing his counter on Animar, lost another game where I mulled super low and won another game that went long because I had to answer the mazes. Against Rafiq I mulled super low game 1, he kept a counter heavy hand and I never got rolling, and in game two I let him take back his 3rd land drop, he played Strip Mine instead and Crucibled me out (we don't play French at my shop if you can't tell). If I'd not let him change his land drop I was winning off of recruiter next turn and we were going to game 3 :(.
I'm really happy with the deck, now I'm just working to make it as resilient/disruptive as possible without compromising on speed.
Well, as far as maze goes, I wouldn't go to far techwise out of your way. It looses straight up to Eldrazi and spellskite, and generally weakens your opponent's tempo enough to really let you capitalize. If anything, I'd focus more on adding cards that keep the cogs spinning, so to say.
Without touching your disruption package, I'd consider swapping a portion of the following out:
I realize our builds are going to diverge significantly, so I'm making some minimalist suggestions.
I think you're running too many lands. In particular, an overly large portion of your land base is non-basic. Aside from the culling of lands, I'd also prioritize things like Copperline Gorge over City of Brass and Fire-lit Thicket. Unlike Flooded Grove, Fire-lit Thicket does not serve any mana filtering functionality. It's rare that you'll ever swap R into GG, or G into RR the same way you frequently are required to do with Flooded Grove. As such, you're at a clear disadvantage any time you need to lead with Thicket, have an island to complement it, or have Utopia Sprawl/Wild Growth. Gorge doesn't have those issues. It's also worth running Gorge over City of Brass considering that you'll often use Peregrine Drake and Cloud of Faeries and almost always are going to be tapping every possible colored mana. Tarnished Citadel, well... that just sounds like a nightmare.
Gush and Fathom Seer are both excellent card drawing effects, both of which are free and will very frequently prevent you from missing a land drop. Fathom Seer especially chains beautifully into Peregrine Drake and Primeval Titan.
Flamekin Harbinger is a non mana 1 drop. Curving out is huge. And adding more cards to increase chain consistency will improve your ability to do upper chains. Slithermuse and Mulldrifter are both pretty saucy targets as well. Being as Slithermuse is very frequently an Ancestral Recall on crack, it's worth tutoring.
Sage of Epityr is an above average 1 drop. Functionally, he's very frequently better than brainstorm. I think you'll be pleasantly surprised.
Wirewood Symbiote is obscene. No ways around it. The deck runs a LOT of elves, and the boost from Symbiote is always impressive.
Wirewood Herald is an interesting card. In practice, the card advantage from skullclamp herald while doing a Survival of the Fittest loop increases the prospect of doing full out chain several fold. Using Wirewood => Empath => Eldrazi => Wirewood.. etc and swapping in land untaps creates infinite mana and infinite card advantage, whereas without it you're always fighting the odds with skullclamp. Let's be real, skullclamp is the scariest thing in the deck, and this guys it's best friend.
Sylvan Ranger is raw card advantage, and at the very least gives you fodder for effects lik Hapless Researcher and Owl Familiar.
Shared Discovery, while being relatively awkward to cast, helps a lot with consistency. You should feel comfortable tapping Animar with it, being as it's not all that much of an issue to untap him down the line.
Also... Gaea's Herald T2 into a T3 Animar is pretty sick against control. It's almost always better than, for example, Flusterstorm and it caters to slower hands better without requiring that 4th up T3.
I guess I posted an older list, Sylvan Ranger and Wirewood Symbiote are both actually in the deck, Ziggurat an something else I can't figure out shouldn't be there. Fathom Seer is in too, even in the above list. I've been thinking of cutting the filters so I'll do that, some of the other cuts you suggested I can't get behind, though. Aluren and Palinchron usually straight up win the game if I draw them, I won't turn down free wins. Pact, Oracle, Shaman and Skullmulcher are also all sweet.
The rest aren't exciting, and Husher and Shapeshifter I'm just trying out atm, but I can't see playing most of of your suggestions over any of them. Maybe Harbinger, who I'll try out, and maybe Shared Discovery which looks cute, but the rest seem lackluster. If Sage drew a card or even just scried I'd play it but otherwise it doesn't seem good enough, and I did play it back in te day. Gush seems like it could be dead too often to be worth it, at least Seer pita a counter on Animar for free, draws with Glimpse, taps for Earthcraft etc. Also Vexing Shusher is just better than Gaea's Herald, you have to slow roll a bit more but it's so much harder to deal with. Wirewood Herald seems so bad without 'clamp that I don't see how it could be worth it. Don't mean to shoot all the suggestions down, I'm very open to criticism, but most of those seem bad, and lots of the suggested cuts are awesome and I highly recommend them, actually. That said I'll test Harbinger (seems extra good for me as my Animar can actually get tucked as i dont play French) and Discovery, especially if Husher and Shapeshifter don't work out.
As for City and Citadel, this deck really doesn't care about its life total and really needs good mana so why not run them? I used to run Copperline Gorge but wasn't a fan, I rarely need red mana (only for Animar) and it came into play tapped way too often. I'd run basic forest before Gorge to be honest.
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Standard: Humanimator
Modern: Jund, Wafo-Tapa UWR
Legacy: Witch-Maw Stoneblade
EDH: Ruhan of the Fomori, Hazezon Tamar, Maga, Traitor to Mortals
The deck certainly cares about it's life total when it comes to things like the imperial chain. Also, late game, it matters a lot more, especially considering how little Animar blocks. You basically let every creature through.... In some matchup's especially against burn, you're frequently winning without Animar in play. Killing yourself off is unnecessary.
W/ the Vexing Shusher vs Gaea's Herald debate, Herald also is an elf, giving him synergy with Wirewood Symbiote, he's skull clamp able, and, being as he only has 1 colored mana in his cost, wirewood can be used as the second creature of a chain to bridge into Familiar/Oracle/Imperial/Mulldrifter more efficiently. As such, he has redeeming qualities in matchups outside of just control. It also doesn't seem very good potentially throwing away a turn to get a 4th mana.
As for my suggestions, yes some seem fairly bland, such as Sage of Epityr, but it is really worthwhile and effective to run a more consistently chainable creature base. Your 1-2 drop count is significantly lower, and of them an even smaller portion are going to be coming down post-animar.
What is it you like about Aluren that you can't already do with Animar in play?
What is it you like about Aluren that you can't already do with Animar in play?
Play Animar for free/just general tax. On my opponent's end step. Then making him infinitely large with a Man-o-War variant before even starting my turn.
Slamming it against a red deck so I can respond to burn on Animar by putting him out of burn range by dropping dudes at instant speed.
Making him infinite any other time with Man-o-War variants without being constrained by how much blue mana I have.
Elfballing even more easily with Visionary/Wall of Blossoms types.
Saving mana therefore going off even longer with Glimpse.
Going off with the Recruiter combo, regardless of my mana or the number of counters on Animar.
The list goes on. 99 time out of 100 Aluren resolving wins the game.
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Modern: Jund, Wafo-Tapa UWR
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EDH: Ruhan of the Fomori, Hazezon Tamar, Maga, Traitor to Mortals
Well, you wouldn't ever want to make animar infinitely large at end of turn. If you lead with dream stalker/shrieking drake, you're locking those spells on the stack and giving your opponent an opportunity to respond freely.
Your situation also has it's own weaknesses.
1) You're at a card disadvantage
2) You have to donate a turn
3) You have to run more lands to make Aluren playable, which significantly lowers the decks consistency. 36 lands is just painful.
4) Your opponent can flash in blockers and by time more reliably, or just do obscene things. It's more of a french thing than not, so you might be less affected, but still.
5) You're overly dependent on bounce effects to capitalize on Aluren
6) Lightning bolt still kills animar if you don't have 4 creatures in your hand
7) Your opponent can flash in phantasmal image
8) The deck is already explosive and readily wins on T4 fairly consistently. Aluren doesn't add any more consistency to that, and it creates just as many negative scenarios as it creates positive, if not more. You're still weak to many of the same effects, only now you're down a turn, at a card disadvantage, and your opponent has all kinds of breathing room.
I'll never say that Aluren is without it's risks/drawbacks but it hasn't backfired on me yet (and French BL or no this is no underdeveloped meta, these tournaments have been going on on a weekly basis for over a year now. I don't think many other cities even have a 1v1 community like we do). Probably best to agree to disagree at this point as in my experience Aluren is the nuts. I will address some of your arguments, though.
36 lands is just painful.
One of those is Eye if Ugin but either way it's really not. I played 34 for a while and found myself stumbling more often than I'd like, and I'm happy with what I'm running now. Consistency is king in all deckbuilding, getting stuck on 2-3 lands in 1/5 games is just bad. Despite how little mana the deck needs to get off the ground and despite the cost reduction on creatures, this deck is actually really mana hungry. Even in games that go super long I tap out completely (unless holding counter mana up) almost every turn. Having to recast Animar once or twice is more than enough reason in itself to want to hit your land drops. And in the late game when you get to 7+ lands (which, unless you're playing against a goldfish, does happen more often than you seem to care to admit), you can go off with just Palinchron and Animar, Cradle or no Cradle.
You have to donate a turn.
Hardly. Drop it right after Abimar then go crazy and win on the spot, that turn.
Lightning bolt still kills Animar if you don't have 4 creatures in hand.
*3 creatures. Or Man-o'-War, or Shrieking Drake, or Dream Stalker, or cantrip/dig dudes who get you more creatures.
You're overly dependent on bounce effects to capitalize on Aluren.
Definitely not dependent. It's the best thing to do with Aluren, sure, but those bounce creatures are already in the deck tania doesn't use any extra slots, there are three of them plus tutors so the redundancy makes any semblance of a "dependency" less of a problem, and you can lay other dudes down too, chaining together cantrip/dig creatures, etc., which also makes Animar huge while digging through your deck or whatever else you need.
Also all of things the deck already does, Aluren coming down helps te deck do them much more easily. It saves you mana on all your creatures, allowing you to go with recruiter from 0 counters and RuG mana, letting you chain cantrip/dig creatures together for web longer as you don't run out of mana, letting you go deeper when goon off with Glimpse, saving you mana while chaining guys together so you can clamp them, and the list goes on.
The things I didn't respond to are valid criticisms, but aren't enough reason to not play Aluren. Aluren (and Palinchron for that matter) = free wins. When I'm playing competitive Magic I play my free wins.
On another note does Vedalken Shackles not see play in the French meta or something? That card is such a PITA. Hardcasting an Ulamog for full cost to get out from under it doesn't seem like a winning plan. I've encountered other annoying artifacts and there are enchantments out there too (I.e Lignify) that really hurt. I cut Acidic Slime a ways back but maybe it's a good idea? There is Indrik Stomphowler too at only a single coloured mana, but I like the option of blowing up lands. In French you can hose it by making it black or white with Painter's Servant but i dont have that option :(. Lmk what you think.
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Standard: Humanimator
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Legacy: Witch-Maw Stoneblade
EDH: Ruhan of the Fomori, Hazezon Tamar, Maga, Traitor to Mortals
Shackles are annoying with my plays but once Painter is in play, that doesn't matter anymore for me plus I don't need wolf land for win because most of the time, I tapped out all of my lands and/or creatures to pump Animar life crazy.
Just wondering how's your match up with top notch decks like anyone with blue ESP against Edric? I assume you don't cast Aluren out since Edric's list consist of castable creatures thus leaving his lands open for counters?
I've been trying to work on a different approach and so far, Jester got the experience and the lead in points from the tourney. Haven't seen his matches so far...assuming he's using this deck.
Necessary sacrifices if you managed to out pump bolt-range and shackles after your opponents destroy the painters... that or you actually have Spellskite in play.
I've added Char, Painter's Servant and such since I posted the deck yesterday. With my current spot removal and counters, the spell categories seem to be solid. Right now, I want to re-include the Eldrazis or at least getting big creatures asap.
Yes, the deck is not as the same as it was originally intended, but it's still in the early stages.
Duel Commander
URG [Primer] Maelstrom Wanderer [Primer] URG
Duel Commander Current Projects:
RGWMarath, Will of the WildRGW
BRXMogis, God of SlaughterBRX
RWxIoras, God of VictoryRWx
WBxAthreos, God of PassageWBx
Created By: DarkNightCavalier
I think though that you're going a little over the top with your changes in the pursuit of protection, so much so that you're crippling yourself, and giving your opponent a lot of breathing room. What matchups have you been having particular problems with?
<----
Goodstuff Animar is a weaker option, in my opinion. You either focus on the combo, or on voltron. Goodstuff runs the risk of zero synergy.
EDH:
RNorin the WaryR <-Link! (Primer - Mono Red Control)
GUEdric, Spymaster of TrestUG <- Link! (Mini-Primer - Dredge)
Duel Commander:
WUGeist of Saint TraftUW <- Link! (Aggro-Control)
BGSkullbriar, the Walking GraveGB <- Link! (Aggro)
BUGDamia, Sage of StoneGUB <- Link! (Extinction Control)
Church of the Wary
Same goes with Azusa using my old list. I ran out of juice with noncreature spells, but the beating went down to 1 until he managed to grab something big.
It made me think that since our current strategy is to wait it out. What I found out is that I don't really need a lot of counters, just a handful of them.
Force of Will
Char
Daze
Spell Pierce
Volcanic Fallout
Flame Slash
Nature's Claim
Lightning Bolt
Those are the ones that I find them most useful. Others are still in pending.
Non-Imperial Creatures are
- Flametongue Kavu
- Grim Lavamancer
- Painter's Servant
- Scryb Ranger
= MVPSnapcaster Mage =MVP
Sower of Temptation =MVP
Spellstutter Sprite
Thrun, the Last Troll
Those guys really help me a lot, especially with Stutter and Scryb with their flash ability.
I know that they're expensive but I can assure that it makes
With those certain few cards, I can re-include the Primal Animar strategy for the late game. Now, I want to test more top tier decks later this week.
Duel Commander
URG [Primer] Maelstrom Wanderer [Primer] URG
Duel Commander Current Projects:
RGWMarath, Will of the WildRGW
BRXMogis, God of SlaughterBRX
RWxIoras, God of VictoryRWx
WBxAthreos, God of PassageWBx
Created By: DarkNightCavalier
What I notice in particular with your list is that you lack many of the essential creatures/card advantage effects that give the deck more reach, namely:
Sage of Epityr
Fierce Empath
Kozilek
Eye of Ugin
Coiling Oracle
Raven Famliar
Sea Gate Oracle
Augury Owl
Owl Familiar
Sylvan Ranger
Phantasmal Image
Fathom Seer
Gush
Chord of Calling
Shared Discovery
Glimpse of Nature
Green Sun's Zenith
Sylvan Tutor
You basically just gutted the deck of all the cards that keep the cogs spinning, which in return makes a lot of matches harder. Burn is a manageable and quite favorable matchup, despite Animar being largely side-lined. They simply have very little to deal with Primeval Titan, among others. Being as the prime strategy against Edric is to do a reverse combo and force them into a draw-go state, the biggest tech cards are things like Rofellos, Gaea's Herald, Orc Lumberjack, Bloom Tender, and Earthcraft that all shut down counter spell time walks. Likewise, 1 mana anti-counter cards are also very strong.
Some examples:
Flusterstorm
Daze
Spell Pierce
Misdirection
Divert
On a side note, Gitaxian Probe has been completely insane. Give it a try.
Also, Phantasmal Image kills Edric, among other generals and is obscenely synergistic. It's just really good.
Anyway, my main advice, if anything, is to test various tech/control cards, but maybe in more moderation, and certainly not by tossing away all the cantrips. There's probably around ~25 flexible slots, of which only maybe 7 are truly open.
Today, I've faced zoo Edrics. He primetimed on turn 3 using Gaea land and Lotus Cobra is a bit onesided for me... in 2 games straight. My hands contains the typical Animar creatures which can't do anything to do that time.
A different Edric zoo that I've faced today before I left which I won with Grim, FoW. And again facing a different Edric deck, I've managed to use Painter Servant and Kira to lock my opponents since he emptied his hand with my counters.
With that, I'm looking for a way, to make it more streamlined. My testing with my deck is getting better as days progressed. It might the same as your deck, but the strategy is still there.
Duel Commander
URG [Primer] Maelstrom Wanderer [Primer] URG
Duel Commander Current Projects:
RGWMarath, Will of the WildRGW
BRXMogis, God of SlaughterBRX
RWxIoras, God of VictoryRWx
WBxAthreos, God of PassageWBx
Created By: DarkNightCavalier
Modern: Jund, Wafo-Tapa UWR
Legacy: Witch-Maw Stoneblade
EDH: Ruhan of the Fomori, Hazezon Tamar, Maga, Traitor to Mortals
It seems like this deck would really take advantage of such a powerful mana short, especially on a tutorable body. It does shut off your non basics but if your opponent can't cast any spells and you can, then Eye of Ugin in win more anyways. It's also awesome to float all your mana, cast magus for R and then use your nonred mana, passing the turn to an opponent with essentially no lands if they arn't playing red.
Magus on the other hand, requires you to commit to tutoring basics immediately, which makes it harder to cast Animar, and makes it a dead draw if you draw it after the first 2 turns. Also, most Blue decks in the format run heavy island counts, burn is unaffected, mono black doesn't care, and I am having serious problems thinking of a matchup in which magus isn't a win-more card.
Might not work, but I might Craterhoof Behemoth in the deck just for giggles.
The problem with Animar is how lucky your opponents are. My third round is just plainly bad luck when they use LD on turn 1 aura-ed land. That pretty much lose my tempo and the game.
Duel Commander
URG [Primer] Maelstrom Wanderer [Primer] URG
Duel Commander Current Projects:
RGWMarath, Will of the WildRGW
BRXMogis, God of SlaughterBRX
RWxIoras, God of VictoryRWx
WBxAthreos, God of PassageWBx
Created By: DarkNightCavalier
Modern: Jund, Wafo-Tapa UWR
Legacy: Witch-Maw Stoneblade
EDH: Ruhan of the Fomori, Hazezon Tamar, Maga, Traitor to Mortals
I'm not really sure the god hand factor is just an Animar problem haha. We do though, at the very least, win the consistency war, so it's not that big of a deal for the most part. Also, it sounds like you could have just tutored up a basic forest for utopia sprawl and avoided getting blown out by wasteland.
Nah Maze of Ith is a complete joke against Animar. It looses straight up to multiple ulamogs, which is quite easy to pull off. Also, it doesn't stop Annihilator. Want to know some sick tech? You can redirect Maze of Ith to Spellskite. Celebrate your opponent playing Maze, it's actually a really good thing for you.
As far as Council and whatnot, I have no idea where your list sits atm, but imo I'd rather have something like Owl Familiar over council any day.
For reference, here's a copy of the current list I'm running in the MTGS EDH tournament. It's unorganized, just a simple cockatrice paste.
1 Breeding Pool
1 Command Tower
1 Flooded Grove
1 Misty Rainforest
1 Polluted Delta
1 Scalding Tarn
1 Bloodstained Mire
1 Stomping Ground
1 Steam Vents
1 Wooded Foothills
1 Windswept Heath
1 Tropical Island
1 Volcanic Island
6 Forest
3 Island
1 Mountain
1 Arid Mesa
1 Eye of Ugin
1 Flooded Strand
1 Gaea's Cradle
1 Phyrexian Metamorph
1 Dream Stalker
1 Wood Elves
1 Trinket Mage
1 Bloom Tender
1 Elvish Visionary
1 Mulldrifter
1 Birds of Paradise
1 Primeval Titan
1 Sea Gate Oracle
1 Lotus Cobra
1 Fierce Empath
1 Imperial Recruiter
1 Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre
1 Kozilek, Butcher of Truth
1 Artisan of Kozilek
1 Man-o'-War
1 Llanowar Elves
1 Coiling Oracle
1 Raven Familiar
1 Gilded Drake
1 Wirewood Symbiote
1 Fyndhorn Elves
1 Earthcraft
1 Crop Rotation
1 Worldly Tutor
1 Survival of the Fittest
1 Cloudstone Curio
1 Green Sun's Zenith
1 Skullclamp
1 Chord of Calling
1 Shrieking Drake
1 Dryad Arbor
1 Cloud of Faeries
1 Quirion Ranger
1 Brainstorm
1 Mox Diamond
1 Arbor Elf
1 Wall of Roots
1 Phantasmal Image
1 Lotus Petal
1 Sylvan Ranger
1 Peregrine Drake
1 Wild Cantor
1 Quirion Sentinel
1 Arctic Merfolk
1 Wall of Blossoms
1 Tinder Wall
1 Utopia Sprawl
1 Owl Familiar
1 Fathom Seer
1 Glimpse of Nature
1 Spellskite
1 Hapless Researcher
1 Orcish Lumberjack
1 Gush
1 Slithermuse
1 Verdant Catacombs
1 Flamekin Harbinger
1 Wild Growth
1 Sage of Epityr
1 Augury Owl
1 Gitaxian Probe
1 Gaea's Herald
1 Daze
1 Cursecatcher
1 Wirewood Herald
1 Sylvan Tutor
1 Rofellos, Llanowar Emissary
1 Shared Discovery
1 Copperline Gorge
Anyway I went 3-1 in that tournament beating Teferi, Skittles and Kresh, and losing in the last round to the Rafiq deck that went undefeated. I'll post a report and the list later, on the bus on my iPhone atm. What are your thoughts on Voidmage Husher and Vesuvan Shapeshifter? Husher is great against Maze and random stuff like Brittle Effigy (which is what removed my Spellskite). Shapeshifter is a free dude and clones are always nice.
Edit: the list now:
1 Birds of Paradise
1 Arbor Elf
1 Fyndhorn Elves
1 Wild Cantor
1 Tinder Wall
1 Llanowar Elves
1 Cursecatcher
1 Orcish Lumberjack
1 Shrieking Drake
1 Wall of Roots
1 Wall of Blossoms
1 Coiling Oracle
1 Phantasmal Image
1 Dream Stalker
1 Fauna Shaman
1 Vexing Shusher
1 Bloom Tender
1 Elvish Visionary
1 Spellskite
1 Fathom Seer
1 Cloud of Faeries
1 Quirion Sentinel
1 Mulldrifter
1 Slithermuse
1 Fierce Empath
1 Raven Familiar
1 Trinket Mage
1 Sea Gate Oracle
1 Wood Elves
1 Man-o'-War
1 Scarecrone
1 Imperial Recruiter
1 Vesuvan Shapeshifter
1 Phyrexian Metamorph
1 Clone
1 Llanowar Empath
1 Voidmage Husher
1 Peregrine Drake
1 Skullmulcher
1 Primeval Titan
1 Palinchron
1 Kozilek, Butcher of Truth
1 Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre
Instants/Sorceries 12
1 Daze
1 Spell Pierce
1 Flusterstorm
1 Force of Will
1 Gitaxian Probe
1 Fabricate
1 Worldly Tutor
1 Sylvan Tutor
1 Summoner's Pact
1 Chord of Calling
1 Glimpse of Nature
1 Crop Rotation
1 Brainstorm
Artifacts/Enchantments 5
1 Skullclamp
1 Cloudstone Curio
1 Survival of the Fittest
1 Earthcraft
1 Aluren
Lands 36
1 Eye of Ugin
1 Steam Vents
1 Breeding Pool
1 Stomping Ground
1 Tropical Island
1 Volcanic Island
1 Taiga
1 Misty Rainforest
1 Bloodstained Mire
1 Flooded Strand
1 Polluted Delta
1 Verdant Catacombs
1 Windswept Heath
1 Wooded Foothills
1 Arid Mesa
1 Scalding Tarn
1 Flooded Grove
1 Fire-Lit Thicket
1 Cascade Bluffs
1 Ancient Ziggurat
1 Command Tower
1 City of Brass
1 Reflecting Pool
1 Kessig Wolf Run
1 Gaea's Cradle
1 Tarnished Citadel
5 Forest
4 Island
1 Mountain
As for a report there really isn't much to say, Kresh and Skittles especially just got steamrolled. Fast mana plus Kessig Wolf Run and a big Animar won me both against Kresh (Orcish Lumberjack was an all-star here, keeping me out of range of his Tech Edge and getting me the mana to win, and Imperial combo into Ulamog won me both games against Skittles. Teferi I beat fast one game after Dazing his counter on Animar, lost another game where I mulled super low and won another game that went long because I had to answer the mazes. Against Rafiq I mulled super low game 1, he kept a counter heavy hand and I never got rolling, and in game two I let him take back his 3rd land drop, he played Strip Mine instead and Crucibled me out (we don't play French at my shop if you can't tell). If I'd not let him change his land drop I was winning off of recruiter next turn and we were going to game 3 :(.
I'm really happy with the deck, now I'm just working to make it as resilient/disruptive as possible without compromising on speed.
Modern: Jund, Wafo-Tapa UWR
Legacy: Witch-Maw Stoneblade
EDH: Ruhan of the Fomori, Hazezon Tamar, Maga, Traitor to Mortals
Without touching your disruption package, I'd consider swapping a portion of the following out:
for some more card advantage outlets
I realize our builds are going to diverge significantly, so I'm making some minimalist suggestions.
I think you're running too many lands. In particular, an overly large portion of your land base is non-basic. Aside from the culling of lands, I'd also prioritize things like Copperline Gorge over City of Brass and Fire-lit Thicket. Unlike Flooded Grove, Fire-lit Thicket does not serve any mana filtering functionality. It's rare that you'll ever swap R into GG, or G into RR the same way you frequently are required to do with Flooded Grove. As such, you're at a clear disadvantage any time you need to lead with Thicket, have an island to complement it, or have Utopia Sprawl/Wild Growth. Gorge doesn't have those issues. It's also worth running Gorge over City of Brass considering that you'll often use Peregrine Drake and Cloud of Faeries and almost always are going to be tapping every possible colored mana. Tarnished Citadel, well... that just sounds like a nightmare.
Gush and Fathom Seer are both excellent card drawing effects, both of which are free and will very frequently prevent you from missing a land drop. Fathom Seer especially chains beautifully into Peregrine Drake and Primeval Titan.
Flamekin Harbinger is a non mana 1 drop. Curving out is huge. And adding more cards to increase chain consistency will improve your ability to do upper chains. Slithermuse and Mulldrifter are both pretty saucy targets as well. Being as Slithermuse is very frequently an Ancestral Recall on crack, it's worth tutoring.
Sage of Epityr is an above average 1 drop. Functionally, he's very frequently better than brainstorm. I think you'll be pleasantly surprised.
Wirewood Symbiote is obscene. No ways around it. The deck runs a LOT of elves, and the boost from Symbiote is always impressive.
Wirewood Herald is an interesting card. In practice, the card advantage from skullclamp herald while doing a Survival of the Fittest loop increases the prospect of doing full out chain several fold. Using Wirewood => Empath => Eldrazi => Wirewood.. etc and swapping in land untaps creates infinite mana and infinite card advantage, whereas without it you're always fighting the odds with skullclamp. Let's be real, skullclamp is the scariest thing in the deck, and this guys it's best friend.
Sylvan Ranger is raw card advantage, and at the very least gives you fodder for effects lik Hapless Researcher and Owl Familiar.
Shared Discovery, while being relatively awkward to cast, helps a lot with consistency. You should feel comfortable tapping Animar with it, being as it's not all that much of an issue to untap him down the line.
Also... Gaea's Herald T2 into a T3 Animar is pretty sick against control. It's almost always better than, for example, Flusterstorm and it caters to slower hands better without requiring that 4th up T3.
The rest aren't exciting, and Husher and Shapeshifter I'm just trying out atm, but I can't see playing most of of your suggestions over any of them. Maybe Harbinger, who I'll try out, and maybe Shared Discovery which looks cute, but the rest seem lackluster. If Sage drew a card or even just scried I'd play it but otherwise it doesn't seem good enough, and I did play it back in te day. Gush seems like it could be dead too often to be worth it, at least Seer pita a counter on Animar for free, draws with Glimpse, taps for Earthcraft etc. Also Vexing Shusher is just better than Gaea's Herald, you have to slow roll a bit more but it's so much harder to deal with. Wirewood Herald seems so bad without 'clamp that I don't see how it could be worth it. Don't mean to shoot all the suggestions down, I'm very open to criticism, but most of those seem bad, and lots of the suggested cuts are awesome and I highly recommend them, actually. That said I'll test Harbinger (seems extra good for me as my Animar can actually get tucked as i dont play French) and Discovery, especially if Husher and Shapeshifter don't work out.
As for City and Citadel, this deck really doesn't care about its life total and really needs good mana so why not run them? I used to run Copperline Gorge but wasn't a fan, I rarely need red mana (only for Animar) and it came into play tapped way too often. I'd run basic forest before Gorge to be honest.
Modern: Jund, Wafo-Tapa UWR
Legacy: Witch-Maw Stoneblade
EDH: Ruhan of the Fomori, Hazezon Tamar, Maga, Traitor to Mortals
W/ the Vexing Shusher vs Gaea's Herald debate, Herald also is an elf, giving him synergy with Wirewood Symbiote, he's skull clamp able, and, being as he only has 1 colored mana in his cost, wirewood can be used as the second creature of a chain to bridge into Familiar/Oracle/Imperial/Mulldrifter more efficiently. As such, he has redeeming qualities in matchups outside of just control. It also doesn't seem very good potentially throwing away a turn to get a 4th mana.
As for my suggestions, yes some seem fairly bland, such as Sage of Epityr, but it is really worthwhile and effective to run a more consistently chainable creature base. Your 1-2 drop count is significantly lower, and of them an even smaller portion are going to be coming down post-animar.
What is it you like about Aluren that you can't already do with Animar in play?
Play Animar for free/just general tax. On my opponent's end step. Then making him infinitely large with a Man-o-War variant before even starting my turn.
Slamming it against a red deck so I can respond to burn on Animar by putting him out of burn range by dropping dudes at instant speed.
Making him infinite any other time with Man-o-War variants without being constrained by how much blue mana I have.
Elfballing even more easily with Visionary/Wall of Blossoms types.
Saving mana therefore going off even longer with Glimpse.
Going off with the Recruiter combo, regardless of my mana or the number of counters on Animar.
The list goes on. 99 time out of 100 Aluren resolving wins the game.
Modern: Jund, Wafo-Tapa UWR
Legacy: Witch-Maw Stoneblade
EDH: Ruhan of the Fomori, Hazezon Tamar, Maga, Traitor to Mortals
Your situation also has it's own weaknesses.
1) You're at a card disadvantage
2) You have to donate a turn
3) You have to run more lands to make Aluren playable, which significantly lowers the decks consistency. 36 lands is just painful.
4) Your opponent can flash in blockers and by time more reliably, or just do obscene things. It's more of a french thing than not, so you might be less affected, but still.
5) You're overly dependent on bounce effects to capitalize on Aluren
6) Lightning bolt still kills animar if you don't have 4 creatures in your hand
7) Your opponent can flash in phantasmal image
8) The deck is already explosive and readily wins on T4 fairly consistently. Aluren doesn't add any more consistency to that, and it creates just as many negative scenarios as it creates positive, if not more. You're still weak to many of the same effects, only now you're down a turn, at a card disadvantage, and your opponent has all kinds of breathing room.
One of those is Eye if Ugin but either way it's really not. I played 34 for a while and found myself stumbling more often than I'd like, and I'm happy with what I'm running now. Consistency is king in all deckbuilding, getting stuck on 2-3 lands in 1/5 games is just bad. Despite how little mana the deck needs to get off the ground and despite the cost reduction on creatures, this deck is actually really mana hungry. Even in games that go super long I tap out completely (unless holding counter mana up) almost every turn. Having to recast Animar once or twice is more than enough reason in itself to want to hit your land drops. And in the late game when you get to 7+ lands (which, unless you're playing against a goldfish, does happen more often than you seem to care to admit), you can go off with just Palinchron and Animar, Cradle or no Cradle.
Hardly. Drop it right after Abimar then go crazy and win on the spot, that turn.
*3 creatures. Or Man-o'-War, or Shrieking Drake, or Dream Stalker, or cantrip/dig dudes who get you more creatures.
Definitely not dependent. It's the best thing to do with Aluren, sure, but those bounce creatures are already in the deck tania doesn't use any extra slots, there are three of them plus tutors so the redundancy makes any semblance of a "dependency" less of a problem, and you can lay other dudes down too, chaining together cantrip/dig creatures, etc., which also makes Animar huge while digging through your deck or whatever else you need.
Also all of things the deck already does, Aluren coming down helps te deck do them much more easily. It saves you mana on all your creatures, allowing you to go with recruiter from 0 counters and RuG mana, letting you chain cantrip/dig creatures together for web longer as you don't run out of mana, letting you go deeper when goon off with Glimpse, saving you mana while chaining guys together so you can clamp them, and the list goes on.
The things I didn't respond to are valid criticisms, but aren't enough reason to not play Aluren. Aluren (and Palinchron for that matter) = free wins. When I'm playing competitive Magic I play my free wins.
On another note does Vedalken Shackles not see play in the French meta or something? That card is such a PITA. Hardcasting an Ulamog for full cost to get out from under it doesn't seem like a winning plan. I've encountered other annoying artifacts and there are enchantments out there too (I.e Lignify) that really hurt. I cut Acidic Slime a ways back but maybe it's a good idea? There is Indrik Stomphowler too at only a single coloured mana, but I like the option of blowing up lands. In French you can hose it by making it black or white with Painter's Servant but i dont have that option :(. Lmk what you think.
Modern: Jund, Wafo-Tapa UWR
Legacy: Witch-Maw Stoneblade
EDH: Ruhan of the Fomori, Hazezon Tamar, Maga, Traitor to Mortals
Just wondering how's your match up with top notch decks like anyone with blue ESP against Edric? I assume you don't cast Aluren out since Edric's list consist of castable creatures thus leaving his lands open for counters?
I've been trying to work on a different approach and so far, Jester got the experience and the lead in points from the tourney. Haven't seen his matches so far...assuming he's using this deck.
Duel Commander
URG [Primer] Maelstrom Wanderer [Primer] URG
Duel Commander Current Projects:
RGWMarath, Will of the WildRGW
BRXMogis, God of SlaughterBRX
RWxIoras, God of VictoryRWx
WBxAthreos, God of PassageWBx
Created By: DarkNightCavalier
Duel Commander
URG [Primer] Maelstrom Wanderer [Primer] URG
Duel Commander Current Projects:
RGWMarath, Will of the WildRGW
BRXMogis, God of SlaughterBRX
RWxIoras, God of VictoryRWx
WBxAthreos, God of PassageWBx
Created By: DarkNightCavalier
//www.starcitygames.com/php/news/article/8552.html[/url">
[url]http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?p=5301342#post5301342"]What kind of Magic Player are you?
Probably the most brokenly created commander deck ever:http://deckstats.net/decks/811/1859-ubr-teps-desire-commander
This deck was built using the french list, so I don't think it's a problem.
EDH:
RNorin the WaryR <-Link! (Primer - Mono Red Control)
GUEdric, Spymaster of TrestUG <- Link! (Mini-Primer - Dredge)
Duel Commander:
WUGeist of Saint TraftUW <- Link! (Aggro-Control)
BGSkullbriar, the Walking GraveGB <- Link! (Aggro)
BUGDamia, Sage of StoneGUB <- Link! (Extinction Control)
Church of the Wary