Figured I could use some more artifact removal, so I went ahead and cut Elbrus, the Binding Blade, for Hoard-Smelter Dragon. There's always something that needs to be blown up anyways, and this puts extra mana into extra damage, so it feels reasonable enough.
Withengar Unbound is cute and all, but he is situational based on getting Stoneforge Mystic, and he makes me want to run Stonehewer Giant which I really don't have any room for, nor do I want to devote an extra slot to him with the four equipments I have. Though I have cheated him out on SFM, and then equipped and it's an awesome feeling. Though yes, it's definitely more cute than anything else.
It's like this; the Blade is more wild, but Hoard-Smelter offers more consistency. I already have enough power IMO, so I'll take the safe route and go with consistency.
And finally, as Sorin Markov never felt truly right with this deck(yes I can drop you to 10 then kill you that turn easily enough) this deck doesn't really need to get to 3BBB to cast him. So I added another discard spell, Stupor. It's like Hymn 2.0, or as I like to call it, "Fixed Hymn". I feel this is better than Blightning as the three damage was rarely relevant, and the extra discard at random is stronger than Blightning letting them choose both cards.
Land Tax is such a great card. Seems good in any deck that runs white but not green. I like your decklist. How often have you played the multiplayer version? Obviously the 1 v 1 is highly tuned. When you switch to multiplayer you work the graveyard a lot more... something I'd love to do if my meta wasn't so chock full of GY hate. Curious how it works out for you. Living Death with a bunch of Demons/Dragons/Angels in the graveyard seems like a lot of fun. Wheel of Fortune would be nice as a way to get more of them into your graveyard to make that gameplan happen.
Elbrus the Binding Blade is one of those cards that I sub in every once in awhile just because it's so freakin fun. And this is probably the best General to run it in, since it does make a HUGE demon. It's not a good card in that it's pretty slow. If anyone has any access to removal, they're gunning for it. I've activated it once by using Unburial Rites on Stonehewer Giant into Elbrus. Then someone died the next turn. 26/26 demon wins the game!
Land Tax is such a great card. Seems good in any deck that runs white but not green. I like your decklist. How often have you played the multiplayer version? Obviously the 1 v 1 is highly tuned. When you switch to multiplayer you work the graveyard a lot more... something I'd love to do if my meta wasn't so chock full of GY hate. Curious how it works out for you. Living Death with a bunch of Demons/Dragons/Angels in the graveyard seems like a lot of fun. Wheel of Fortune would be nice as a way to get more of them into your graveyard to make that gameplan happen.
Elbrus the Binding Blade is one of those cards that I sub in every once in awhile just because it's so freakin fun. And this is probably the best General to run it in, since it does make a HUGE demon. It's not a good card in that it's pretty slow. If anyone has any access to removal, they're gunning for it. I've activated it once by using Unburial Rites on Stonehewer Giant into Elbrus. Then someone died the next turn. 26/26 demon wins the game!
Hey, thanks man. Yeah, the 1v1 is quite heavily tuned, from my months and months of playing this deck. Land Tax I just choose not to play because I don't really have enough Basics to fetch with it. But Tithe is quite awesome finding two W-duals though(which is usually all I need to setup my kills). I would prefer Weathered Wayfarer moreso than Tax in a longer stretched game(like FFA), as, of course, it can find non-basics for me.
And yeah, I've noticed a lot of my friends don't play as much grave hate, admittedly I don't play as much either in the 1v1 as I aim to hit 'em hard and fast, but because they don't play as much, they allow me to abuse stupid stuff more often that shouldn't be abused ha. Since the primary plan of the general is to cheat stuff out for much less overhead cost, it's only natural I need to have ways to cheat other stuff as you can't rely on a fragile 2/2 flyer with a bullseye to get the job done in FFA. It's also why I stopped running Sneak Attack in favor of Quicksilver Amulet, because I like my stuff to last for more than one turn(haven't even looked back since).
I don't generally like Wheel of Fortune as the primary gameplan is to get rid of opponent's cards, not empty their hands and refill them for them. That and I usually tend to prefer the black draw like the ever-so-amazing Skeletal Scrying as my instant speed Mind Spring.
As for Elbrus, I did like him(he is a tonne of fun too!), but overall he sucks unless I have Stoneforge Mystic to cheat it out(or he makes me want to play Stonehewer Giant) so I just went for more utility in the humble Hoard-Smelter Dragon as there is always something you can kill, ha. God forbid if they have an indestructible artifact that you can keep targeting. But man Withengar Unbound is so brutal(I had my brother playing Skullbriar tribal zombies scrambling for removal to try and answer him fast, but he still took one hit from him before he got rid of him). SFM does make a great carrier for it though. lolz
edit: Also, I'm currently in the process of writing a Primer for this deck, complete with an awesome pie chart style graph and stuff for some of the information to replace my basic table. So stay tuned in the [hopefully] near future!
So, besides the usual criminals of 'generic EDH allowed list abuse', like Stoneforge Mystic (who I affectionately dubbed 'Tinker-Belle' on Gatherer), Demonic Tutor, and the like, and some really easy to think of creatures based on cursory Gatherer searches, and trying to follow three different websites' advice of 'what is 'common sense' in EDH?' (since I'm assuming most people are new to format, with these awesome promotional decks being the first some people even ever heard of it)
I found a break-through.
#1. The first card you choose in Kaalia is normally the Commander herself.
#2. It doesn't take long for you to come to the conclusion that Akroma, Angel of Wrath is simply the best creature Kaalia can ever cheat into play under nearly any circumstances. There are corner cases where you'd rather have another card, but you have 98 more cards to deal with them, and in the mean-time Akroma will deal with the vast majority of problems if she sticks. So she might not stick for long, but again, your deck *ought to be able to bring her back at least once or twice. Akroma is still Queen of the Angels.
#3. I found the perfect card to abuse Akroma with. There's not much that will actually 'combo' with her, but what I found is GREAT. It's from Ravnica, and it's called Concerted Effort. After discovering this card, I've decided that the correct way to play Kaalia of the Vast is to go ALL the way All-In Monsters. Any way to abuse this card as much as possible is what you want to do, because at the end of the day, you play Kaalia because you are at least partially a Timmy, and you dream of swinging with 5 or 6 Akroma, Angel of Wrath-like UBER-creatures every turn.
-My chosen path of abusing Concerted Effort may be different from yours, but here's something I'm currently building that I think will do well-
I'd like to get together Blood, Silver, White, and Black Knights. These creatures are decent on their own, and they give me some easier-to-cast options in case Kaalia is either dead, not been cast yet, or I don't have an opening to safely attack with her. The best part of the Knights IMO is that for few deck slots, they can cover a LOT if Concerted Effort gets going with even 2 of them, but EVEN if they're destroyed/countered/whatever, once I get some big Demons and Dragons and Angels rolling, I won't even miss them.
I don't want to waste too much of my deck on 'small fries' though- lets see how we can maximize our strategy of trying to milk as much extra value out of every creature as possible:
Moonveil Dragon. After reading this a number of times to make sure I got the wording right, he's essential. He doesn't JUST give each creature firebreathing- he pumps everyone at ONCE, with just 1 mana. if you have 3 creatures out, 2 mana gets you 6 more damage. If you have 5 or 6 creatures out, and one of them is Moonveil Dragon, you can make a game-ending charge with just one land open. The very real possibility that you can have a LOT MORE creatures and lands open with this guy down....he's absolutely crazy if you have Concerted Efforted out- his ability won't be copied, but all those keywords you should be copying make each additional attack point that much more deadly.
Sword of Vengeance is a poor man's Akroma's Memorial in this deck, but EDH is all about redundancy- with a small devotion to tutors, Akroma herself, her memorial, AND Sword of Vengeance, it will not be that difficult to consistently transform your army into Akromas.
Sunhome, Fortress of Legion and Vault of the Archangel are All-Star lands that give you keywords that are easy to find on one or two cards, but hard to find ways to give to your whole army.
Needless to say, any Sword from either Mirrodin Block could be outstanding with Concerted Effort, but I'm not going to recommend one over the other- you can make calls like that on your own, and 'brew to taste' depending on what you're up against at your local game tables.
Sorin, Lord of Innistrad is probably the best Planeswalker for this deck- he makes Emblems that will permanently pump everyone, even if Sorin gets targeted. An Honor of the Pure that's Obliterate/Nevinyrral's Disk-proof is a very good thing to have. More than one can get out of hand quick.
A thing that Kaalia of the Vast has problems with is being fast enough (if people are prepared for her or you get luck-screwed), and being safe enough (she draws immediate hatred if she gets operational), so as general advice I would say that focusing on getting as much Protection on your permanents as possible quickly should be a goal, one you can actually meet with a Tutored up Concerted Effort. The Knights I mentioned at the beginning of my post do both of these roles adequately.
I also must stress that if Sorin's Emblems are great with Kaalia, ELSPETH, KNIGHT-ERRANT'S Emblem spells an almost guaranteed GAME. OVER.
I've seen a number of different sources already discuss Kaalia, and I wanted to try to mention what I thought were new ideas, rather than repeat old and obvious suggestions. Look up her card comments on Gatherer, and combine that with what I say here as well, then look at your own Kaalia list and figure out what you'd like to change.
Sun, Grave, and Inferno Titan, for the record, are plain ridiculous with an active Concerted Effort giving them lots of other abilities.
I guess what I'm saying is, while you can build your deck many different ways and they might all be good, it's very, very hard for me to imagine a Kaalia Deck without Concerted Effort anymore, and I HAD to give that a card a big huge shout-out along with some ideas I had for it. But DEFINITELY find a place for Concerted Effort if your are thinking Kaalia of the Vast might be the General for you.
I am probably every color-combination it is possible to be, though it's really hard to figure out what it would mean to be 4-colored....it doesn't seem logical to be 4-colored without being 5-colored.
Hey there. I certainly appreciate the comments. As someone who's been playing Kaalia for the better part of the year, it's great to see another Kaalia player in the mix.
I do get a good amount of people who ask me why I don't play the Akromas, which tbh, I just don't really like. Sure Kaalia can cheat them, but when she can't, you're stuck with these eight mana monstrosities in your hand. On top of that, they don't do anything except attack or block. To me, that isn't good enough when I can compare it to another eight mana creature that DOES do more, like, say...Scourge of Kher Ridges. Now THAT'S an exciting creature! Built-in repeatable Pyroclasm? Check. Built in flyers removal? Check.
That brings me to your other suggestion, Concerted Effort. I used to keep trying to break it, but it is situational. First, it doesn't kick in until the next player's upkeep, second, it's only good with multiple critters on board with multiple abilities. Now, the majority of my critters already have flying for evasion so...what more do I really need to give them? This, to me, makes Concerted Effort very much a "win-more" card, mainly because it's only at its highest power level when I have a good number of critters on the board(and by that point, I'm already winning anyway). I think this card though, would be better served as disruption for your opponent. If I were going to run it, I'd feel like I should add another discard spell in place of it, like Mind Shatter, or Thoughtseize.
I can certainly appreciate your passion for the card though and am not trying to undermine your choices. It's just, for me, the card feels like it isn't pulling it's own weight. The same goes for Sword of Vengeance, I can see why you would want to run it with the enchantment, but for me, the Sword is too slow and the 3 equip cost is a lot when most of my critters already have some of those abilities.
As for Sorin & Elspeth, I suppose the Emblem is okay, but the rest of the card feels a bit lacking. Sure, a permanent +1/+0 is cool, but when you have critters that bash for 7-9 damage already, it's a bit redundant. Moonveil Dragon is a bit different here as he isn't JUST an extra +1/+0 to your team, but extra +1/+0 for each R you have open. Elspeth feels the way of Sorin as well, the first ability is okay, the second ability is just a pump spell(my guys already have flying) and while yes, the ultimate does win you the game, you don't play Planeswalkers for the ultimates, you play them for the first and second abilities. The ultimate is gravy.
Sunhome vs Vault: I like Vault better because at the same cost, it effects my whole team, and makes it impossible to race. I like Sunhome more in voltron builds, like Uril, the Miststalker.
As for the Titans, I have a lot of high-costed fat already, I don't want to add more six drops that I can't even cheat into play with my general. Inferno Titan is only good with a Vault of the Archangel, Sun Titan is actually in my multiplayer board(as I transform from aggro to reanimator), and Grave Titan is...well, he's just a critter I can't cheat out.
Again, I do very much thank you for the feedback, it is a great way to challenge my way of thinking/deckbuilding, and that is ultimately the way we become better deckbuilders in the first place.
[hr]
Alright, so last night I was actually able to find a Flagstones of Trokair(even a FOIL one too, yay!) so now my manabase is officially complete. And the other add is a nice, black-bordered Beta Sinkhole I got for $20(pretty heavily played) over Duress as they're both great in the early game, and both suck later on. I do like the information that Duress gives me, but I feel that Sinkhole just kind of randomly wins games when they start turn 3 with only 1 land.
Round 2 vs Eladamri, Lord of Leaves- ...It's a mono-G deck with no removal. On top of that, I stick t3 Stupor into t4 Kaalia into t5 Rakdos the Defiler. I felt kind of bad as this was his first time seeing the Rakdos interaction.
Top 4 Fatal Fourway vs Sliver Overlord, Edric, Spymaster of Trest, Eladamri, Lord of Leaves- An on time Kaalia leads the way with a very timely Scourge of Kher Ridges, which seems like THE best card in this particular match-up. That's followed up by a Moonveil Dragon that threatens a terribly fast clock. One last attack forces the concession from Edric as I Rakdos his board. Elves have a last turn, so they try to drop Eldrazi Monument, but I activate Scourge in response to Pyroclasm them, then I let Monument resolve. Eladamri is dead on board but to add insult to injury, I top deck Iona, Shield of Emeria!
And that concludes our small event we held tonight. Thanks for reading everyone!
Hey there. I certainly appreciate the comments. As someone who's been playing Kaalia for the better part of the year, it's great to see another Kaalia player in the mix.
I do get a good amount of people who ask me why I don't play the Akromas, which tbh, I just don't really like. Sure Kaalia can cheat them, but when she can't, you're stuck with these eight mana monstrosities in your hand. On top of that, they don't do anything except attack or block.
Akroma, Angel of Fury can be cast with six lands, not 8. Hardcasting Moonveil Dragon should be way scarier to you than hardcasting red Akroma for 3 then 6, unless you keep the number of blue and white EDH decks in your area unnaturally low by means of tactical arson.
I would cut Moonveil Dragon for red Akroma without batting an eyelash in a Squee, Goblin Nabob deck, the fact that you have a general cheating Akroma out some of the time just makes the choice unbelievable
I just don't like it because she just doesn't do enough for me. Casting her for 3, then 3RRR is still paying an overall total of 9 into her, which is unacceptable for a single critter. Not to mention being vulnerable to about all kinds of removal not named Hornet Sting while you try to play her face down is pretty weak.
In a Squee deck, maybe Akroma is a better call than Moonveil, but this isn't a Squee deck. This is Kaalia of the Vast. Moonveil makes a dreadfully fast clock, the likes of which is incredibly hard to race. A single Akroma has not, from my extreme testing, gotten the job done because it's just a single critter that only attacks or blocks. The protections aren't even what I'm after here as I do have three different Swords that offer protections.
Although I agree that moonveil dragon is good, akroma can be an absolute beating for some decks. And if you run exalted angel (which I have found to be very good in 1 vs 1 precisely because it is easy to cast), you really want a second morph for variance.
If you play kaalia, attack with it, put something into play and they wrath next turn, that's usually not a bad trade. With angel of despair / karmic guide / rune-scarred demon / dragon mage / balefire dragon it becomes an even trade + damage, even if you just put baneslayer into play you generate a big lifeswing.
I think in general you don't really want to put more than 1 creature into play with kaalia unless it gains you significant etb advantage or puts your opponents in the position that they need wrath or they'll lose. It also works better to play kaalia more as a control general, and then use her in the midgame with haste to quickly establish board presence and win.
And as for refuelling, you have runescarred demon, bloodgift demon, phyrexian arena, dragon mage, scroll rack + shuffle effects, land tax, tithe, sunforger, skeletal scrying, promise of power, night's whisper, sign in blood, sword of fire and ice. So although it can be a problem, I haven't found it to be the worst.
For recursion you can play phyrexian reclamation (works well with sneak attack), reanimate, oversold cemetery, exhume, animate dead, debtor's knell (with academy rector) and mass reanimation effects such as patriarch's bidding / living death.
And one more point, when I'm playing against edric/geist, I would rather have red akroma then scour of kher ridges which is just going to get bounced/removed while akroma they can't do anything about.
So I keep running into the same problems when i play. I get a solid board presence, and every deck and it's mother and aunt drop Wrath of God or Damnation or Pox on me when i have 1-2 cards left in hand, and every turn thereafter. Recasting Kaalia does nothing because she costs loads and doesn't do anything. Beside Griselbrand which will obviously go in, how do I get a better late-late game? In multiplayer, I always take down a player or two myself, but then the removal gets flowing and there's no seeming way to recover.
One guy helped me on accident by playing some enchantment that let each player return a creature from the GY to their hand if they had more cards in the GY than the opponent they named, but i can't find that card anywhere.
How the heck does Kaalia ever re-fuel?
Well, part of this issue seems you are playing this in multiplayer, I rarely do this because of the reputation she carries. You need the discard spells like Tidehollow Sculler to take a peak at their hand to know it's safe, and effects like Hymn to Tourach is always brutal. But this pulls their answers out of their hand, so when they have to rely on top decking an answer, naitch it makes it much harder to stop what is already a fast clock.
As for refueling, I believe the infamous Griselbrand will take care of that, as he should just win the game on the spot for you. Also having the proper, and critical mass of tutours will find what you need at that specific time(which of course also helps you close out a game with ease).
As of AVR, another thing that helps is that a lot of these monstrosities are more powerful, IMHO, than Kaalia, so that will help to draw some fire away from her.
Now, what I really need to do, is find a way to fit Harvester of Souls in, as that guy is phenomenal in here. Deathtouch, and he flips whoever wraths me the bird as I draw a bunch of cards, and a relevant creature type so that I can still cheat him in for free.
And one more point, when I'm playing against edric/geist, I would rather have red akroma then scour of kher ridges which is just going to get bounced/removed while akroma they can't do anything about.
Even so, you can still Pyroclasm them before it gets bounced. Then I swing and play it again. Especially nice as Scourge doesn't hit fliers with the 'Clasm, so Kaalia survives all day long.
Fairly big update. Yes, I actually decided to try out the Akromas. I don't like them though. They cost a lot and don't do anything special besides beat, but I am willing to give them a chance. I am probably like the only person that doesn't care much about the Akromas lol.
Also, gonna try out Duress over Tidehollow Sculler, I do like how the Sculler effects are recurrable via Volrath's Stronghold and the like, though I never did care for them getting the spell back. Duress takes the spell, and still gives me information on their hand, and doesn't give it back on a removal spell. Also Rix Maadi, Dungeon Palace gets added as a repeatable source of discard similar to Liliana of the Veil, so it feels stronger than Mesmeric Fiend(even if I don't get the extra information of looking at their hand).
And more testing has shown me what I originally thought of the Akromas is true; they don't do enough, and are eight mana monstrosities that sit in my hand unless I get an active Kaalia. So I cut Redkroma for Smallpox. Pretty solid disruption and it compliments my Sinkhole rather nicely. Whitekroma is still in...for now...but am debating on her versus Tidehollow Sculler, Mesmeric Fiend, and Distress.
Is Debtors' Knell worth it in multiplayer as reanimator card or is it really too slow? (no Academy Rector available)
I always thought Reya Dawnbringer was too expensive at 9 CMC, if Kaalia is not active.
Hi there, first of all let me say thank you for your interest in my Primer!
I don't like Debtors' Knell for a variety of reasons. first, it's seven mana and for something that targets any graveyard it naitch draws an awful lot of hate. It's versatile as an enchantment, but that doesn't matter when every Naturalize comes after it. Which can make it like a seven mana Animate Dead at some points. Academy Rector is worth noting, but I only get one use out of her, and I only have two(with Debtors' Knell it would be three) targets for it, making it a bit more situational than I would like.
Reya Dawnbringer on the other hand, yes she does cost nine, but she bashes for four in the air, is somewhat less offensive than the enchantment as it only targets my 'Yard(so a single Bojuka Bog effect neuters her significantly, making her just a 4/6 flyer), and as a critter I can easily get it back via Volrath's Stronghold, etc. She also brags of the synergy with my general with a relevant creature type.
How do you manage to drop Kaalia and keep her around for a swing with all the counters and removal in 1v1? I was thinking about making a Kaalia deck myself, but there doesn't seem to be enough discard to get Kaalia working.
Also, would a Kaalia deck that focuses on playing her late game work? I was thinking about building a deck with her with only ~3 bombs that she can bring out, and focus the rest of the deck with heavy control and tutors. If so, what are the best Kaalia bombs? Rakdos, Rune-Scarred Demon, and... Balefire dragon?
Hi there, first of all let me say thank you for your interest in my Primer!
I don't like Debtors' Knell for a variety of reasons. first, it's seven mana and for something that targets any graveyard it naitch draws an awful lot of hate. It's versatile as an enchantment, but that doesn't matter when every Naturalize comes after it. Which can make it like a seven mana Animate Dead at some points. Academy Rector is worth noting, but I only get one use out of her, and I only have two(with Debtors' Knell it would be three) targets for it, making it a bit more situational than I would like.
Reya Dawnbringer on the other hand, yes she does cost nine, but she bashes for four in the air, is somewhat less offensive than the enchantment as it only targets my 'Yard(so a single Bojuka Bog effect neuters her significantly, making her just a 4/6 flyer), and as a critter I can easily get it back via Volrath's Stronghold, etc. She also brags of the synergy with my general with a relevant creature type.
Thanks for the reply. I'm building a multiplayer version with reanimation. I saw some lists using Debtors' Knell, so I was trying to figure why you didn't recommend it for the multiplayer version. Thanks for your explanation. I will try Reya again.
Unfortunately, I don't have Volrath's stronghold. What's your feeling about Phyrexian Reclamation in multiplayer? Is that more usable?
How do you manage to drop Kaalia and keep her around for a swing with all the counters and removal in 1v1? I was thinking about making a Kaalia deck myself, but there doesn't seem to be enough discard to get Kaalia working.
Also, would a Kaalia deck that focuses on playing her late game work? I was thinking about building a deck with her with only ~3 bombs that she can bring out, and focus the rest of the deck with heavy control and tutors. If so, what are the best Kaalia bombs? Rakdos, Rune-Scarred Demon, and... Balefire dragon?
They don't always have a counter or removal in hand.
The spot discard helps to pull a lot of their answers from their hand, though I also run Sinkhole and Smallpox(which is awesome if they go t1 GSZ ---> Dryad Arbor lolz). Then when the coast is clear, drop Kaalia, preferably with haste and go to town. Defense Grid is amazing at turning counters off. Even makes Swords a 3W removal spell, which sucks, to say the least.
With all the artifact mana it's fairly easy to accelerate into faster things, and while this is with the standard banlist and not french, I've found t1 Sol Ring into t2 Quicksilver Amulet is rough.
Thanks for the reply. I'm building a multiplayer version with reanimation. I saw some lists using Debtors' Knell, so I was trying to figure why you didn't recommend it for the multiplayer version. Thanks for your explanation. I will try Reya again.
Unfortunately, I don't have Volrath's stronghold. What's your feeling about Phyrexian Reclamation in multiplayer? Is that more usable?
I think Phy-Rec is an okay card to use, it can fly under the radar. The reason I don't run it is I tend to eat up a pretty fair chunk of my own life force that I can't pilot the card to a reasonable efficiency. If you do play the card though, play Sun Titan with it as he can get back the enchantment when people do eventually kill it.
With all the artifact mana it's fairly easy to accelerate into faster things
In your multiplayer setting, do you encounter many artifact wipes? Can your deck function without the mana artifacts?
Quote from 3drinks »
I think Phy-Rec is an okay card to use, it can fly under the radar. The reason I don't run it is I tend to eat up a pretty fair chunk of my own life force that I can't pilot the card to a reasonable efficiency. If you do play the card though, play Sun Titan with it as he can get back the enchantment when people do eventually kill it.
I had not considered Sun Titan in any of my past builds of this deck, and combined with Animate Dead, Necromancy, and some cheap artifacts, I think that would be worth running. I might tweak my deck to have more life gain to offset the life loss and take a slight loss to efficiency (my group is casual, so I can operate with slightly worse cards).
In your multiplayer setting, do you encounter many artifact wipes? Can your deck function without the mana artifacts?
I had not considered Sun Titan in any of my past builds of this deck, and combined with Animate Dead, Necromancy, and some cheap artifacts, I think that would be worth running. I might tweak my deck to have more life gain to offset the life loss and take a slight loss to efficiency (my group is casual, so I can operate with slightly worse cards).
Thanks for your input.
I can function reasonably well, because since I transition into more of a reanimator deck, I don't generally need to hit land as often(reanimation spells are a bit cheaper than fatties). Plus, outside of cards like Oblivion Stone, most of my group don't run the Akroma's Vengeances as it tends to mess with their own ramp, Sylvan Librarys, equipments and the like. Though another solution is don't just fling all your rocks out at the same time, if you suspect a sweeper to be coming soon. Also, with ramp though, what's more important for an opponent to slow you down? Killing your early Balefire Dragon/Reya Dawnbringer, or blowing out your mana rocks?
If you do know/suspect someone to regularly run these kinds of sweepers, target that person first and single them out of the game.
More importantly, as implied in the Primer, if you're playing this deck, you are the aggressor, not the opponent. You control the pace of the game. That said, I don't feel Kaalia transitions well enough into a multiplayer setting because of her reputation(hence why I go WRB reanimator).
And of course, one well-placed Cataclysm effect can turn a convoluted boardstate into a win well enough as everyone scrambles to rebuild, but you power things out with your general.
3drinks, thanks for your input and explanation for additional card choices. I'm definitely changing my Kaalia deck to be more aggressive and use a reanimator strategy.
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Steel Sabotage'ng Orbs of Mellowness since 2011.
Withengar Unbound is cute and all, but he is situational based on getting Stoneforge Mystic, and he makes me want to run Stonehewer Giant which I really don't have any room for, nor do I want to devote an extra slot to him with the four equipments I have. Though I have cheated him out on SFM, and then equipped and it's an awesome feeling. Though yes, it's definitely more cute than anything else.
It's like this; the Blade is more wild, but Hoard-Smelter offers more consistency. I already have enough power IMO, so I'll take the safe route and go with consistency.
Steel Sabotage'ng Orbs of Mellowness since 2011.
Steel Sabotage'ng Orbs of Mellowness since 2011.
Elbrus the Binding Blade is one of those cards that I sub in every once in awhile just because it's so freakin fun. And this is probably the best General to run it in, since it does make a HUGE demon. It's not a good card in that it's pretty slow. If anyone has any access to removal, they're gunning for it. I've activated it once by using Unburial Rites on Stonehewer Giant into Elbrus. Then someone died the next turn. 26/26 demon wins the game!
WUBRG Some of these decks can actually win games...WUBRG
How I know I should build a deck:
Hey, thanks man. Yeah, the 1v1 is quite heavily tuned, from my months and months of playing this deck. Land Tax I just choose not to play because I don't really have enough Basics to fetch with it. But Tithe is quite awesome finding two W-duals though(which is usually all I need to setup my kills). I would prefer Weathered Wayfarer moreso than Tax in a longer stretched game(like FFA), as, of course, it can find non-basics for me.
And yeah, I've noticed a lot of my friends don't play as much grave hate, admittedly I don't play as much either in the 1v1 as I aim to hit 'em hard and fast, but because they don't play as much, they allow me to abuse stupid stuff more often that shouldn't be abused ha. Since the primary plan of the general is to cheat stuff out for much less overhead cost, it's only natural I need to have ways to cheat other stuff as you can't rely on a fragile 2/2 flyer with a bullseye to get the job done in FFA. It's also why I stopped running Sneak Attack in favor of Quicksilver Amulet, because I like my stuff to last for more than one turn(haven't even looked back since).
I don't generally like Wheel of Fortune as the primary gameplan is to get rid of opponent's cards, not empty their hands and refill them for them. That and I usually tend to prefer the black draw like the ever-so-amazing Skeletal Scrying as my instant speed Mind Spring.
As for Elbrus, I did like him(he is a tonne of fun too!), but overall he sucks unless I have Stoneforge Mystic to cheat it out(or he makes me want to play Stonehewer Giant) so I just went for more utility in the humble Hoard-Smelter Dragon as there is always something you can kill, ha. God forbid if they have an indestructible artifact that you can keep targeting. But man Withengar Unbound is so brutal(I had my brother playing Skullbriar tribal zombies scrambling for removal to try and answer him fast, but he still took one hit from him before he got rid of him). SFM does make a great carrier for it though. lolz
edit: Also, I'm currently in the process of writing a Primer for this deck, complete with an awesome pie chart style graph and stuff for some of the information to replace my basic table. So stay tuned in the [hopefully] near future!
Steel Sabotage'ng Orbs of Mellowness since 2011.
Steel Sabotage'ng Orbs of Mellowness since 2011.
I found a break-through.
#1. The first card you choose in Kaalia is normally the Commander herself.
#2. It doesn't take long for you to come to the conclusion that Akroma, Angel of Wrath is simply the best creature Kaalia can ever cheat into play under nearly any circumstances. There are corner cases where you'd rather have another card, but you have 98 more cards to deal with them, and in the mean-time Akroma will deal with the vast majority of problems if she sticks. So she might not stick for long, but again, your deck *ought to be able to bring her back at least once or twice. Akroma is still Queen of the Angels.
#3. I found the perfect card to abuse Akroma with. There's not much that will actually 'combo' with her, but what I found is GREAT. It's from Ravnica, and it's called Concerted Effort. After discovering this card, I've decided that the correct way to play Kaalia of the Vast is to go ALL the way All-In Monsters. Any way to abuse this card as much as possible is what you want to do, because at the end of the day, you play Kaalia because you are at least partially a Timmy, and you dream of swinging with 5 or 6 Akroma, Angel of Wrath-like UBER-creatures every turn.
-My chosen path of abusing Concerted Effort may be different from yours, but here's something I'm currently building that I think will do well-
I'd like to get together Blood, Silver, White, and Black Knights. These creatures are decent on their own, and they give me some easier-to-cast options in case Kaalia is either dead, not been cast yet, or I don't have an opening to safely attack with her. The best part of the Knights IMO is that for few deck slots, they can cover a LOT if Concerted Effort gets going with even 2 of them, but EVEN if they're destroyed/countered/whatever, once I get some big Demons and Dragons and Angels rolling, I won't even miss them.
I don't want to waste too much of my deck on 'small fries' though- lets see how we can maximize our strategy of trying to milk as much extra value out of every creature as possible:
Moonveil Dragon. After reading this a number of times to make sure I got the wording right, he's essential. He doesn't JUST give each creature firebreathing- he pumps everyone at ONCE, with just 1 mana. if you have 3 creatures out, 2 mana gets you 6 more damage. If you have 5 or 6 creatures out, and one of them is Moonveil Dragon, you can make a game-ending charge with just one land open. The very real possibility that you can have a LOT MORE creatures and lands open with this guy down....he's absolutely crazy if you have Concerted Efforted out- his ability won't be copied, but all those keywords you should be copying make each additional attack point that much more deadly.
Sword of Vengeance is a poor man's Akroma's Memorial in this deck, but EDH is all about redundancy- with a small devotion to tutors, Akroma herself, her memorial, AND Sword of Vengeance, it will not be that difficult to consistently transform your army into Akromas.
Sunhome, Fortress of Legion and Vault of the Archangel are All-Star lands that give you keywords that are easy to find on one or two cards, but hard to find ways to give to your whole army.
Needless to say, any Sword from either Mirrodin Block could be outstanding with Concerted Effort, but I'm not going to recommend one over the other- you can make calls like that on your own, and 'brew to taste' depending on what you're up against at your local game tables.
Sorin, Lord of Innistrad is probably the best Planeswalker for this deck- he makes Emblems that will permanently pump everyone, even if Sorin gets targeted. An Honor of the Pure that's Obliterate/Nevinyrral's Disk-proof is a very good thing to have. More than one can get out of hand quick.
A thing that Kaalia of the Vast has problems with is being fast enough (if people are prepared for her or you get luck-screwed), and being safe enough (she draws immediate hatred if she gets operational), so as general advice I would say that focusing on getting as much Protection on your permanents as possible quickly should be a goal, one you can actually meet with a Tutored up Concerted Effort. The Knights I mentioned at the beginning of my post do both of these roles adequately.
I also must stress that if Sorin's Emblems are great with Kaalia, ELSPETH, KNIGHT-ERRANT'S Emblem spells an almost guaranteed GAME. OVER.
I've seen a number of different sources already discuss Kaalia, and I wanted to try to mention what I thought were new ideas, rather than repeat old and obvious suggestions. Look up her card comments on Gatherer, and combine that with what I say here as well, then look at your own Kaalia list and figure out what you'd like to change.
Sun, Grave, and Inferno Titan, for the record, are plain ridiculous with an active Concerted Effort giving them lots of other abilities.
I guess what I'm saying is, while you can build your deck many different ways and they might all be good, it's very, very hard for me to imagine a Kaalia Deck without Concerted Effort anymore, and I HAD to give that a card a big huge shout-out along with some ideas I had for it. But DEFINITELY find a place for Concerted Effort if your are thinking Kaalia of the Vast might be the General for you.
People need to read this fanfiction, though:
www.hpmor.com
I am probably every color-combination it is possible to be, though it's really hard to figure out what it would mean to be 4-colored....it doesn't seem logical to be 4-colored without being 5-colored.
I do get a good amount of people who ask me why I don't play the Akromas, which tbh, I just don't really like. Sure Kaalia can cheat them, but when she can't, you're stuck with these eight mana monstrosities in your hand. On top of that, they don't do anything except attack or block. To me, that isn't good enough when I can compare it to another eight mana creature that DOES do more, like, say...Scourge of Kher Ridges. Now THAT'S an exciting creature! Built-in repeatable Pyroclasm? Check. Built in flyers removal? Check.
That brings me to your other suggestion, Concerted Effort. I used to keep trying to break it, but it is situational. First, it doesn't kick in until the next player's upkeep, second, it's only good with multiple critters on board with multiple abilities. Now, the majority of my critters already have flying for evasion so...what more do I really need to give them? This, to me, makes Concerted Effort very much a "win-more" card, mainly because it's only at its highest power level when I have a good number of critters on the board(and by that point, I'm already winning anyway). I think this card though, would be better served as disruption for your opponent. If I were going to run it, I'd feel like I should add another discard spell in place of it, like Mind Shatter, or Thoughtseize.
I can certainly appreciate your passion for the card though and am not trying to undermine your choices. It's just, for me, the card feels like it isn't pulling it's own weight. The same goes for Sword of Vengeance, I can see why you would want to run it with the enchantment, but for me, the Sword is too slow and the 3 equip cost is a lot when most of my critters already have some of those abilities.
As for Sorin & Elspeth, I suppose the Emblem is okay, but the rest of the card feels a bit lacking. Sure, a permanent +1/+0 is cool, but when you have critters that bash for 7-9 damage already, it's a bit redundant. Moonveil Dragon is a bit different here as he isn't JUST an extra +1/+0 to your team, but extra +1/+0 for each R you have open. Elspeth feels the way of Sorin as well, the first ability is okay, the second ability is just a pump spell(my guys already have flying) and while yes, the ultimate does win you the game, you don't play Planeswalkers for the ultimates, you play them for the first and second abilities. The ultimate is gravy.
Sunhome vs Vault: I like Vault better because at the same cost, it effects my whole team, and makes it impossible to race. I like Sunhome more in voltron builds, like Uril, the Miststalker.
As for the Titans, I have a lot of high-costed fat already, I don't want to add more six drops that I can't even cheat into play with my general. Inferno Titan is only good with a Vault of the Archangel, Sun Titan is actually in my multiplayer board(as I transform from aggro to reanimator), and Grave Titan is...well, he's just a critter I can't cheat out.
Again, I do very much thank you for the feedback, it is a great way to challenge my way of thinking/deckbuilding, and that is ultimately the way we become better deckbuilders in the first place.
[hr]
Alright, so last night I was actually able to find a Flagstones of Trokair(even a FOIL one too, yay!) so now my manabase is officially complete. And the other add is a nice, black-bordered Beta Sinkhole I got for $20(pretty heavily played) over Duress as they're both great in the early game, and both suck later on. I do like the information that Duress gives me, but I feel that Sinkhole just kind of randomly wins games when they start turn 3 with only 1 land.
Steel Sabotage'ng Orbs of Mellowness since 2011.
Round 1 vs Sharuum the Hegemon- I stick t4 Kaalia hasted via Hall of the Bandit Lord into Steel Hellkite whom promptly keeps her board clean. Not much else to say here.
Round 2 vs Eladamri, Lord of Leaves- ...It's a mono-G deck with no removal. On top of that, I stick t3 Stupor into t4 Kaalia into t5 Rakdos the Defiler. I felt kind of bad as this was his first time seeing the Rakdos interaction.
Round 3 vs Edric, Spymaster of Trest- We draw into top 4.
Top 4 Fatal Fourway vs Sliver Overlord, Edric, Spymaster of Trest, Eladamri, Lord of Leaves- An on time Kaalia leads the way with a very timely Scourge of Kher Ridges, which seems like THE best card in this particular match-up. That's followed up by a Moonveil Dragon that threatens a terribly fast clock. One last attack forces the concession from Edric as I Rakdos his board. Elves have a last turn, so they try to drop Eldrazi Monument, but I activate Scourge in response to Pyroclasm them, then I let Monument resolve. Eladamri is dead on board but to add insult to injury, I top deck Iona, Shield of Emeria!
And that concludes our small event we held tonight. Thanks for reading everyone!
Steel Sabotage'ng Orbs of Mellowness since 2011.
Akroma, Angel of Fury can be cast with six lands, not 8. Hardcasting Moonveil Dragon should be way scarier to you than hardcasting red Akroma for 3 then 6, unless you keep the number of blue and white EDH decks in your area unnaturally low by means of tactical arson.
I would cut Moonveil Dragon for red Akroma without batting an eyelash in a Squee, Goblin Nabob deck, the fact that you have a general cheating Akroma out some of the time just makes the choice unbelievable
In a Squee deck, maybe Akroma is a better call than Moonveil, but this isn't a Squee deck. This is Kaalia of the Vast. Moonveil makes a dreadfully fast clock, the likes of which is incredibly hard to race. A single Akroma has not, from my extreme testing, gotten the job done because it's just a single critter that only attacks or blocks. The protections aren't even what I'm after here as I do have three different Swords that offer protections.
Steel Sabotage'ng Orbs of Mellowness since 2011.
BRWC Mardu Shops - Tymna and Akiri Artifacts BRWC
Without spoiling anything from AVR...
Alright, so I can see Griselbrand is going to be going in this deck.......................
edit: Yeah, Gisela, Blade of Goldnight has a permanent spot in this deck. So. Good. So. Aggressive. It even lets my Tidehollow Sculler block and not die as well!
Steel Sabotage'ng Orbs of Mellowness since 2011.
I think in general you don't really want to put more than 1 creature into play with kaalia unless it gains you significant etb advantage or puts your opponents in the position that they need wrath or they'll lose. It also works better to play kaalia more as a control general, and then use her in the midgame with haste to quickly establish board presence and win.
And as for refuelling, you have runescarred demon, bloodgift demon, phyrexian arena, dragon mage, scroll rack + shuffle effects, land tax, tithe, sunforger, skeletal scrying, promise of power, night's whisper, sign in blood, sword of fire and ice. So although it can be a problem, I haven't found it to be the worst.
For recursion you can play phyrexian reclamation (works well with sneak attack), reanimate, oversold cemetery, exhume, animate dead, debtor's knell (with academy rector) and mass reanimation effects such as patriarch's bidding / living death.
And one more point, when I'm playing against edric/geist, I would rather have red akroma then scour of kher ridges which is just going to get bounced/removed while akroma they can't do anything about.
BRWC Mardu Shops - Tymna and Akiri Artifacts BRWC
Well, part of this issue seems you are playing this in multiplayer, I rarely do this because of the reputation she carries. You need the discard spells like Tidehollow Sculler to take a peak at their hand to know it's safe, and effects like Hymn to Tourach is always brutal. But this pulls their answers out of their hand, so when they have to rely on top decking an answer, naitch it makes it much harder to stop what is already a fast clock.
As for refueling, I believe the infamous Griselbrand will take care of that, as he should just win the game on the spot for you. Also having the proper, and critical mass of tutours will find what you need at that specific time(which of course also helps you close out a game with ease).
As of AVR, another thing that helps is that a lot of these monstrosities are more powerful, IMHO, than Kaalia, so that will help to draw some fire away from her.
Now, what I really need to do, is find a way to fit Harvester of Souls in, as that guy is phenomenal in here. Deathtouch, and he flips whoever wraths me the bird as I draw a bunch of cards, and a relevant creature type so that I can still cheat him in for free.
Even so, you can still Pyroclasm them before it gets bounced. Then I swing and play it again. Especially nice as Scourge doesn't hit fliers with the 'Clasm, so Kaalia survives all day long.
Steel Sabotage'ng Orbs of Mellowness since 2011.
Also, gonna try out Duress over Tidehollow Sculler, I do like how the Sculler effects are recurrable via Volrath's Stronghold and the like, though I never did care for them getting the spell back. Duress takes the spell, and still gives me information on their hand, and doesn't give it back on a removal spell. Also Rix Maadi, Dungeon Palace gets added as a repeatable source of discard similar to Liliana of the Veil, so it feels stronger than Mesmeric Fiend(even if I don't get the extra information of looking at their hand).
Steel Sabotage'ng Orbs of Mellowness since 2011.
Steel Sabotage'ng Orbs of Mellowness since 2011.
I always thought Reya Dawnbringer was too expensive at 9 CMC, if Kaalia is not active.
I always thought Reya Dawnbringer was too expensive at 9 CMC, if Kaalia is not active.
Hi there, first of all let me say thank you for your interest in my Primer!
I don't like Debtors' Knell for a variety of reasons. first, it's seven mana and for something that targets any graveyard it naitch draws an awful lot of hate. It's versatile as an enchantment, but that doesn't matter when every Naturalize comes after it. Which can make it like a seven mana Animate Dead at some points. Academy Rector is worth noting, but I only get one use out of her, and I only have two(with Debtors' Knell it would be three) targets for it, making it a bit more situational than I would like.
Reya Dawnbringer on the other hand, yes she does cost nine, but she bashes for four in the air, is somewhat less offensive than the enchantment as it only targets my 'Yard(so a single Bojuka Bog effect neuters her significantly, making her just a 4/6 flyer), and as a critter I can easily get it back via Volrath's Stronghold, etc. She also brags of the synergy with my general with a relevant creature type.
Steel Sabotage'ng Orbs of Mellowness since 2011.
Also, would a Kaalia deck that focuses on playing her late game work? I was thinking about building a deck with her with only ~3 bombs that she can bring out, and focus the rest of the deck with heavy control and tutors. If so, what are the best Kaalia bombs? Rakdos, Rune-Scarred Demon, and... Balefire dragon?
Thanks for the reply. I'm building a multiplayer version with reanimation. I saw some lists using Debtors' Knell, so I was trying to figure why you didn't recommend it for the multiplayer version. Thanks for your explanation. I will try Reya again.
Unfortunately, I don't have Volrath's stronghold. What's your feeling about Phyrexian Reclamation in multiplayer? Is that more usable?
They don't always have a counter or removal in hand.
The spot discard helps to pull a lot of their answers from their hand, though I also run Sinkhole and Smallpox(which is awesome if they go t1 GSZ ---> Dryad Arbor lolz). Then when the coast is clear, drop Kaalia, preferably with haste and go to town. Defense Grid is amazing at turning counters off. Even makes Swords a 3W removal spell, which sucks, to say the least.
With all the artifact mana it's fairly easy to accelerate into faster things, and while this is with the standard banlist and not french, I've found t1 Sol Ring into t2 Quicksilver Amulet is rough.
I think Phy-Rec is an okay card to use, it can fly under the radar. The reason I don't run it is I tend to eat up a pretty fair chunk of my own life force that I can't pilot the card to a reasonable efficiency. If you do play the card though, play Sun Titan with it as he can get back the enchantment when people do eventually kill it.
Steel Sabotage'ng Orbs of Mellowness since 2011.
In your multiplayer setting, do you encounter many artifact wipes? Can your deck function without the mana artifacts?
I had not considered Sun Titan in any of my past builds of this deck, and combined with Animate Dead, Necromancy, and some cheap artifacts, I think that would be worth running. I might tweak my deck to have more life gain to offset the life loss and take a slight loss to efficiency (my group is casual, so I can operate with slightly worse cards).
Thanks for your input.
I can function reasonably well, because since I transition into more of a reanimator deck, I don't generally need to hit land as often(reanimation spells are a bit cheaper than fatties). Plus, outside of cards like Oblivion Stone, most of my group don't run the Akroma's Vengeances as it tends to mess with their own ramp, Sylvan Librarys, equipments and the like. Though another solution is don't just fling all your rocks out at the same time, if you suspect a sweeper to be coming soon. Also, with ramp though, what's more important for an opponent to slow you down? Killing your early Balefire Dragon/Reya Dawnbringer, or blowing out your mana rocks?
If you do know/suspect someone to regularly run these kinds of sweepers, target that person first and single them out of the game.
More importantly, as implied in the Primer, if you're playing this deck, you are the aggressor, not the opponent. You control the pace of the game. That said, I don't feel Kaalia transitions well enough into a multiplayer setting because of her reputation(hence why I go WRB reanimator).
And of course, one well-placed Cataclysm effect can turn a convoluted boardstate into a win well enough as everyone scrambles to rebuild, but you power things out with your general.
Steel Sabotage'ng Orbs of Mellowness since 2011.