Pull from the deep is interesting, since it's a 2-for-1 recursion spell. But 4-mana sorceries are tricky to use in control decks. But the effect is interesting enough to note I feel.
SCourge of fleets could potentially be a budget polymorph target, since landing it is usually a mini cyclonic rift.
If you want to "stall" you can use Wash Out or Evacuation, no need to polymorph into that, even Vedalken Shackles can do a great job (steal their creatures and chump block with them = profit!).
Pull is too mana heavy, slow and depends on you having cards in your graveyard. I would rather use Isochron Scepter or the Quiet Speculation package.
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Legacy URGBOops all my spellsBGRU URBYoung GrixisBRU
~Commander~ BUDralnu/ReanimatorUB GRUMaelstroM WanderiNgURG GBMerengue Clan of SalsaBG
WUGeist of Saint TraftUW UTalrand PolymorphishU UAzami, Lady of CAU BRWZurgo, Worldslayer BearerWRB BWUMerieke Ri Berit UWB UVendilion CliqueU
Modern:U Mono-U TroN U
just remembered i shoudl stick in portent as a bad ponder.
Different, you can ponder your opponents library when you are in a winning positions or if you already know or don't care what you are getting from your library.
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Legacy URGBOops all my spellsBGRU URBYoung GrixisBRU
~Commander~ BUDralnu/ReanimatorUB GRUMaelstroM WanderiNgURG GBMerengue Clan of SalsaBG
WUGeist of Saint TraftUW UTalrand PolymorphishU UAzami, Lady of CAU BRWZurgo, Worldslayer BearerWRB BWUMerieke Ri Berit UWB UVendilion CliqueU
Modern:U Mono-U TroN U
Is there a way to see if the tappedout.net budget listings use the proper printings when determining costs? This is important because mystical tutor is like $16 FtV but is like $5 in 6ED and mirage, and I'm too lazy to count up the price of all 100 cards...
EDIT: NVM I actually did count it up myself since I was bored >_>
And the stupid site doesn't budget based on the lowest priced printing. So the budget is including dumb things like $16 mystical tutor FtV, $5 counterspell jace vs chandra, etc. I put the decklist on magic.tcgplayer.com and I have a low of $75.45 now. Although for some reason the site doesn't think preordain is legal in commander, so I had to remove it and put an extra island for now in that listing.
Also, what are some of monoblue's answers to hexproof generals? There are very few people at my LGS who even play french 1v1, but in case I do run into a geist of saint traft, thrun, etc., what do I do if they put cavern of souls on their general (and/or for geist, they have force of will/etc. backup)? Are there answers, or do I just have to keep countering their voltron pieces? Or glaring spotlight, idk
You will usually have more counterspells and the tokkens can chump block geist, I think talrand is a counter-deck for geist. You just need some practice againts them and know what to counter and what not to counter.
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Legacy URGBOops all my spellsBGRU URBYoung GrixisBRU
~Commander~ BUDralnu/ReanimatorUB GRUMaelstroM WanderiNgURG GBMerengue Clan of SalsaBG
WUGeist of Saint TraftUW UTalrand PolymorphishU UAzami, Lady of CAU BRWZurgo, Worldslayer BearerWRB BWUMerieke Ri Berit UWB UVendilion CliqueU
Modern:U Mono-U TroN U
My playgroup is small at the moment and they are playing more modern now, so I don't know which decks gives me troubles. I guess any decent tri-colour deck, like Rafiq. If you don't have the answers, you will spend most of the game making drakes just to block.
For tournaments, I play my french geist but for casual I usually play Azami or Dralnu. I used to play alot of Talrand, but azami is alot of fun.
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Legacy URGBOops all my spellsBGRU URBYoung GrixisBRU
~Commander~ BUDralnu/ReanimatorUB GRUMaelstroM WanderiNgURG GBMerengue Clan of SalsaBG
WUGeist of Saint TraftUW UTalrand PolymorphishU UAzami, Lady of CAU BRWZurgo, Worldslayer BearerWRB BWUMerieke Ri Berit UWB UVendilion CliqueU
Modern:U Mono-U TroN U
Should I play Foil and if so what should I cut? 3-for-1 is a problem, but having a free counterspell can really keep opponents on their toes, even if it's just a 1-of. Also one of the discarded cards is an island so that shouldn't be too bad.
I don't have enoug experience with that card in talrand, I love it in my azami and dralnu deck.
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Legacy URGBOops all my spellsBGRU URBYoung GrixisBRU
~Commander~ BUDralnu/ReanimatorUB GRUMaelstroM WanderiNgURG GBMerengue Clan of SalsaBG
WUGeist of Saint TraftUW UTalrand PolymorphishU UAzami, Lady of CAU BRWZurgo, Worldslayer BearerWRB BWUMerieke Ri Berit UWB UVendilion CliqueU
Modern:U Mono-U TroN U
Thwart seems kinda all-in, 3 islands is a big cost. I guess it won't matter if it's done when you are trying to seal a win, but...
also, what about commandeer? It's pretty hard to hardcast and the additional cost is huge and it doesn't hit creature spells, but it can be pretty swingy.
You would rather let something resolve and possibly lose you the game or return 3 islands ? that is the question you should ask yourself.
It is a budget deck, force of will is out of the question and Thwart is the clossest thing. "he is a mono blue-commander that tapped out, lets resolve this and win the game.... NOPE!"
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Legacy URGBOops all my spellsBGRU URBYoung GrixisBRU
~Commander~ BUDralnu/ReanimatorUB GRUMaelstroM WanderiNgURG GBMerengue Clan of SalsaBG
WUGeist of Saint TraftUW UTalrand PolymorphishU UAzami, Lady of CAU BRWZurgo, Worldslayer BearerWRB BWUMerieke Ri Berit UWB UVendilion CliqueU
Modern:U Mono-U TroN U
Thwart is not something I would want to cast early on, only when I'm trying to seal a win. I'm just curious if it's the best "free counter" out of that, foil, or commandeer.
So conspiracy has brought the price of misdirection to $6 (low price on magic.tcgplayer.com), so that's a pretty decent budget for a free counterspell (certainly more affordable than force of will). With that, foil, commandeer, and thwart, there are some good options. How would you rank their power, disregarding budget?
(there's also stifle at $11, but not sure if that is worth a spot).
I need to get one for myself, totally worth if you can redirect their removal to their creatures.
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Legacy URGBOops all my spellsBGRU URBYoung GrixisBRU
~Commander~ BUDralnu/ReanimatorUB GRUMaelstroM WanderiNgURG GBMerengue Clan of SalsaBG
WUGeist of Saint TraftUW UTalrand PolymorphishU UAzami, Lady of CAU BRWZurgo, Worldslayer BearerWRB BWUMerieke Ri Berit UWB UVendilion CliqueU
Modern:U Mono-U TroN U
snap and rewind are some of the best cards in Talrand, do NOT remove these, [c]snap[c/] especially, because when you want to counter something, snap then counter, and get 2 Tokens and stabilize the board in 1 play. Rewind isn't as great, but still one of the better talrand spells, because if you counter 2 things in one turn with talrand out on turn 4, the game is most likely over
I may reconsider snap mostly because I can put it on isochron scepter, but I was not a fan of rewind. The most crucial turn in the game is when I cast talrand (or recast him), because that's when I'm most vulnerable because I have the least amount of mana available. This makes rewind bad because it requires 4-mana upfront. If I can untap with talrand out it doesn't really matter what I do as long as I keep him alive, and rewind into another spell will usually be overkill.
I'd say rewind would find a place in a wydwen deck, since they are both 4-mana spells and going T4 rewind your thing -> wydwen is a blowout, but not in talrand.
Might I suggest Oona's Grace. It's a little mana-intensive to start off, but it let's you cycle any of your lands for three mana and get a drake if Talrand is out. I would also recommend Thwart as a free counterspell that won't break your budget and is somewhat less disadvantageous than Force of Will.
WUBRGProgenitus
URGMaelstrom Wanderer
WUBOloro, Ageless Ascetic
WURZedruu, the Greathearted
BRGProssh, Skyraider of Kher ($100)
GWUDerevi, Empyrial Tactician ($100)
UGKruphix, God of Horizons ($100)(retired)UTalrand, Sky Summoner (French 1v1, $100)
Pull from the deep is interesting, since it's a 2-for-1 recursion spell. But 4-mana sorceries are tricky to use in control decks. But the effect is interesting enough to note I feel.
SCourge of fleets could potentially be a budget polymorph target, since landing it is usually a mini cyclonic rift.
WUBRGProgenitus
URGMaelstrom Wanderer
WUBOloro, Ageless Ascetic
WURZedruu, the Greathearted
BRGProssh, Skyraider of Kher ($100)
GWUDerevi, Empyrial Tactician ($100)
UGKruphix, God of Horizons ($100)(retired)UTalrand, Sky Summoner (French 1v1, $100)
Pull is too mana heavy, slow and depends on you having cards in your graveyard. I would rather use Isochron Scepter or the Quiet Speculation package.
URGBOops all my spellsBGRU
URBYoung GrixisBRU
~Commander~
BUDralnu/ReanimatorUB
GRUMaelstroM WanderiNgURG
GBMerengue Clan of SalsaBG
UTalrand PolymorphishU
UAzami, Lady of CAU
BRWZurgo, Worldslayer BearerWRB
BWUMerieke Ri Berit UWB
UVendilion CliqueU
Modern:U Mono-U TroN U
WUBRGProgenitus
URGMaelstrom Wanderer
WUBOloro, Ageless Ascetic
WURZedruu, the Greathearted
BRGProssh, Skyraider of Kher ($100)
GWUDerevi, Empyrial Tactician ($100)
UGKruphix, God of Horizons ($100)(retired)UTalrand, Sky Summoner (French 1v1, $100)
WUBRGProgenitus
URGMaelstrom Wanderer
WUBOloro, Ageless Ascetic
WURZedruu, the Greathearted
BRGProssh, Skyraider of Kher ($100)
GWUDerevi, Empyrial Tactician ($100)
UGKruphix, God of Horizons ($100)(retired)UTalrand, Sky Summoner (French 1v1, $100)
Different, you can ponder your opponents library when you are in a winning positions or if you already know or don't care what you are getting from your library.
URGBOops all my spellsBGRU
URBYoung GrixisBRU
~Commander~
BUDralnu/ReanimatorUB
GRUMaelstroM WanderiNgURG
GBMerengue Clan of SalsaBG
UTalrand PolymorphishU
UAzami, Lady of CAU
BRWZurgo, Worldslayer BearerWRB
BWUMerieke Ri Berit UWB
UVendilion CliqueU
Modern:U Mono-U TroN U
EDIT: NVM I actually did count it up myself since I was bored >_>
And the stupid site doesn't budget based on the lowest priced printing. So the budget is including dumb things like $16 mystical tutor FtV, $5 counterspell jace vs chandra, etc. I put the decklist on magic.tcgplayer.com and I have a low of $75.45 now. Although for some reason the site doesn't think preordain is legal in commander, so I had to remove it and put an extra island for now in that listing.
WUBRGProgenitus
URGMaelstrom Wanderer
WUBOloro, Ageless Ascetic
WURZedruu, the Greathearted
BRGProssh, Skyraider of Kher ($100)
GWUDerevi, Empyrial Tactician ($100)
UGKruphix, God of Horizons ($100)(retired)UTalrand, Sky Summoner (French 1v1, $100)
WUBRGProgenitus
URGMaelstrom Wanderer
WUBOloro, Ageless Ascetic
WURZedruu, the Greathearted
BRGProssh, Skyraider of Kher ($100)
GWUDerevi, Empyrial Tactician ($100)
UGKruphix, God of Horizons ($100)(retired)UTalrand, Sky Summoner (French 1v1, $100)
URGBOops all my spellsBGRU
URBYoung GrixisBRU
~Commander~
BUDralnu/ReanimatorUB
GRUMaelstroM WanderiNgURG
GBMerengue Clan of SalsaBG
UTalrand PolymorphishU
UAzami, Lady of CAU
BRWZurgo, Worldslayer BearerWRB
BWUMerieke Ri Berit UWB
UVendilion CliqueU
Modern:U Mono-U TroN U
You have a Talrand deck, what gives you problems?
WUBRGProgenitus
URGMaelstrom Wanderer
WUBOloro, Ageless Ascetic
WURZedruu, the Greathearted
BRGProssh, Skyraider of Kher ($100)
GWUDerevi, Empyrial Tactician ($100)
UGKruphix, God of Horizons ($100)(retired)UTalrand, Sky Summoner (French 1v1, $100)
For tournaments, I play my french geist but for casual I usually play Azami or Dralnu. I used to play alot of Talrand, but azami is alot of fun.
URGBOops all my spellsBGRU
URBYoung GrixisBRU
~Commander~
BUDralnu/ReanimatorUB
GRUMaelstroM WanderiNgURG
GBMerengue Clan of SalsaBG
UTalrand PolymorphishU
UAzami, Lady of CAU
BRWZurgo, Worldslayer BearerWRB
BWUMerieke Ri Berit UWB
UVendilion CliqueU
Modern:U Mono-U TroN U
WUBRGProgenitus
URGMaelstrom Wanderer
WUBOloro, Ageless Ascetic
WURZedruu, the Greathearted
BRGProssh, Skyraider of Kher ($100)
GWUDerevi, Empyrial Tactician ($100)
UGKruphix, God of Horizons ($100)(retired)UTalrand, Sky Summoner (French 1v1, $100)
I don't have enoug experience with that card in talrand, I love it in my azami and dralnu deck.
URGBOops all my spellsBGRU
URBYoung GrixisBRU
~Commander~
BUDralnu/ReanimatorUB
GRUMaelstroM WanderiNgURG
GBMerengue Clan of SalsaBG
UTalrand PolymorphishU
UAzami, Lady of CAU
BRWZurgo, Worldslayer BearerWRB
BWUMerieke Ri Berit UWB
UVendilion CliqueU
Modern:U Mono-U TroN U
also, what about commandeer? It's pretty hard to hardcast and the additional cost is huge and it doesn't hit creature spells, but it can be pretty swingy.
WUBRGProgenitus
URGMaelstrom Wanderer
WUBOloro, Ageless Ascetic
WURZedruu, the Greathearted
BRGProssh, Skyraider of Kher ($100)
GWUDerevi, Empyrial Tactician ($100)
UGKruphix, God of Horizons ($100)(retired)UTalrand, Sky Summoner (French 1v1, $100)
It is a budget deck, force of will is out of the question and Thwart is the clossest thing. "he is a mono blue-commander that tapped out, lets resolve this and win the game.... NOPE!"
URGBOops all my spellsBGRU
URBYoung GrixisBRU
~Commander~
BUDralnu/ReanimatorUB
GRUMaelstroM WanderiNgURG
GBMerengue Clan of SalsaBG
UTalrand PolymorphishU
UAzami, Lady of CAU
BRWZurgo, Worldslayer BearerWRB
BWUMerieke Ri Berit UWB
UVendilion CliqueU
Modern:U Mono-U TroN U
WUBRGProgenitus
URGMaelstrom Wanderer
WUBOloro, Ageless Ascetic
WURZedruu, the Greathearted
BRGProssh, Skyraider of Kher ($100)
GWUDerevi, Empyrial Tactician ($100)
UGKruphix, God of Horizons ($100)(retired)UTalrand, Sky Summoner (French 1v1, $100)
(there's also stifle at $11, but not sure if that is worth a spot).
WUBRGProgenitus
URGMaelstrom Wanderer
WUBOloro, Ageless Ascetic
WURZedruu, the Greathearted
BRGProssh, Skyraider of Kher ($100)
GWUDerevi, Empyrial Tactician ($100)
UGKruphix, God of Horizons ($100)(retired)UTalrand, Sky Summoner (French 1v1, $100)
I need to get one for myself, totally worth if you can redirect their removal to their creatures.
URGBOops all my spellsBGRU
URBYoung GrixisBRU
~Commander~
BUDralnu/ReanimatorUB
GRUMaelstroM WanderiNgURG
GBMerengue Clan of SalsaBG
UTalrand PolymorphishU
UAzami, Lady of CAU
BRWZurgo, Worldslayer BearerWRB
BWUMerieke Ri Berit UWB
UVendilion CliqueU
Modern:U Mono-U TroN U
+ Neurok Stealthsuit
+ Mind Stone
+ Basalt Monolith
+ Worn Powerstone
+ Misdirection
- Dismiss
- Gravitational Shift
- Coastal Piracy
- Distant Melody
- Silent Departure
still unsure about the other free counters and what cuts to make for them, but I'll put in misdirection for now
WUBRGProgenitus
URGMaelstrom Wanderer
WUBOloro, Ageless Ascetic
WURZedruu, the Greathearted
BRGProssh, Skyraider of Kher ($100)
GWUDerevi, Empyrial Tactician ($100)
UGKruphix, God of Horizons ($100)(retired)UTalrand, Sky Summoner (French 1v1, $100)
RMono Red Akroma, Angel of Wrath
WUG Derevi Stax
Legacy:
BBB MONO BLACK STAX
I'd say rewind would find a place in a wydwen deck, since they are both 4-mana spells and going T4 rewind your thing -> wydwen is a blowout, but not in talrand.
WUBRGProgenitus
URGMaelstrom Wanderer
WUBOloro, Ageless Ascetic
WURZedruu, the Greathearted
BRGProssh, Skyraider of Kher ($100)
GWUDerevi, Empyrial Tactician ($100)
UGKruphix, God of Horizons ($100)(retired)UTalrand, Sky Summoner (French 1v1, $100)
WUBRGProgenitus
URGMaelstrom Wanderer
WUBOloro, Ageless Ascetic
WURZedruu, the Greathearted
BRGProssh, Skyraider of Kher ($100)
GWUDerevi, Empyrial Tactician ($100)
UGKruphix, God of Horizons ($100)(retired)UTalrand, Sky Summoner (French 1v1, $100)
WUBRGProgenitus
URGMaelstrom Wanderer
WUBOloro, Ageless Ascetic
WURZedruu, the Greathearted
BRGProssh, Skyraider of Kher ($100)
GWUDerevi, Empyrial Tactician ($100)
UGKruphix, God of Horizons ($100)(retired)UTalrand, Sky Summoner (French 1v1, $100)
+ Lightning Greaves
+ Myriad Landscape
- Stormtide Leviathan
- Neurok Stealthsuit
- ???
WUBRGProgenitus
URGMaelstrom Wanderer
WUBOloro, Ageless Ascetic
WURZedruu, the Greathearted
BRGProssh, Skyraider of Kher ($100)
GWUDerevi, Empyrial Tactician ($100)
UGKruphix, God of Horizons ($100)(retired)UTalrand, Sky Summoner (French 1v1, $100)