Inkmoth is more a blocker for me than anything else. It blocks Clique and a few other early flier, helping Daretti survive long enough. I also used it's poison together with Contagion Engine for an alternative wincon, but that came up very little. I like how Pia and Kiran Nalaar put flying tokens into play, and I think that makes a difference in their playability in this deck, for example.
About Pentavus, I tried it and Triskelavus, but having to spend mana to make tokens is a bummer. I wouldn't say they're wrong in the deck. They're fine, as is Triskelion, and maybe I could cut something for one of them. But I never really missed any of those options and always preferred the raw power and low token cost of Myr Battlesphere.
Honestly, I would play 2 Myr Battlespheres if I could. I'm really looking at Pentavus as a second "big artifact creature that makes tokens and can help take down walkers." Or third, if we're counting Wurmcoil. For this role, I think Precursor Golem could be another candidate.
Golem has the 'hands free' aspect to it, in that you don't have to spend mana on it. I think the drawback is concerning though in regards to removal. Golem is also a lot easier to hardcast, and curves out well after Daretti. Turn 3 Daretti, discard, turn 4 Golem, get 2 3/3 tokens, weld out Golem for whatever you discarded. That seems pretty reasonable. And the drawback no longer applies once Golem leaves.
Pentavus doesn't have the drawback, but you need to invest 1 mana for each Pentavite. Is that really so intensive? Pentavus is definitely a lot more techy, and can block fliers which I like. It can also kill itself and build a small army up with Daretti's help.
I feel like I don't need that many tokens. The most I need them is to sacrifice to Kuldotha. So Battlesphere and Wurmcoil do the job just fine. If you need a token producer for 5 mana, I'd suggest Myr Turbine, since it can also fetch Battlesphere if all goes well. I'll probably stick to Batterskull because it's a bomb against fast aggro.
I thought about Precursor Golem, but I had nightmares where my enemy Repeal'ed a token and drew 3 in the process. There are probably other interactions like that which I don't really want to discover. So I don't like it that much.
My actual problem with Pentavus/Triskelavus is that they cost mana to produce tokens AND they're not bombs. They're just engines for something I don't really need (produce tokens). Battlesphere, Wurmcoil and Sundering Titan are cards that can win the game by themselves. The "Avus Guys" can't, and so can't Precursor Golem. IF you need another bomb in that slot maybe Platinum Emperion is good?
My only reason for not trying out emperion would be that he doesnt protext himself; I mean in a sense that, "yea, hes great against craterhoof lists", but beyond that, he doesnt do enough alone. I agree with fsecco on that if you have to PAY mana for a creature to get more dudes, just sounds meh.
However, I am a personal fan of kher keep, as it literally provides blockers, unlike inkmoth, which counts as your land and can only block once. You shouldnt be trying to fly over them to win, you should win after they have been locked out. Precursor has been on my mind for a while, but his target ability makes me want to vomit in anger. And truthfully, I've really been debating trying to put in trinisphere, to really get that "legacy mudd" feel of the list. And spine has been FANTASTIC! Its also cool to animate with karn, silver golem. 8)
And, there are times where I'm hell bent, and need a continuous amount of blockers for the grixis control lists. But, you are right, because in this list, I am more apt to be more on the tap-out plan.
Trinisphere never stopped proving itself for me. It's almost like a second Defense Grid, which is very relevant versus control. Knowing that your opponent can't play a single spell when he has only 2 mana untapped is invaluable.
Static Orb is good against ramp and swarm decks. I'm currently not playing it, but I feel it could be good again, now that I'm running Thran Dynamo and Gilded Lotus.
EDIT: I'll test Kher Keep. seems reasonable enough.
Yeah... and there are players that say Blood Moon and Magus are not that good. I strongly consider playing Imperial Recruiter just to fetch Magus (and also Welder and Revoker, why not). Then, adding Triskelion, Pentavus or Triskelavus could be a nice idea.
I mean, its nice that those two can be tutored, but id rather run something 100% better than trike/pentavus. How can people playing MONO RED afford to lose its best resource against multi colored decks?
So, I got to play with Pyromancer's Goggles today too, and it's awesome. I duplicated thing like REB, Tormenting Voice and the like, just so they wouldn't be countered by my opponent. He was playing Geist and I took the match for 2x1 in 3 very grindy matches. Goggles feels bad at first, but it's a "darettable" Boseiju. It's incredible and I definetely have to find the right slot for it.
Alhammarret's Archive feels clunky in such a way I don't even care to test it. I will (digitally), but I've had cards like this in the deck before: they come into play and do nothing, except in a few corner cases where they're cool. Ugin's Nexus was one of those: if feels awesome to gain an extra turn, but most of the time you just spend 5 mana or 2 loyalty to let it sit there doing NOTHING. I win my games applying pressure every single turn. Daretti plays 1 card per turn, but all the cards are bombs. If you play something not-bomby, you're lettting the game slide.
I like the infect plan, but it's become too slow for me. As I said many times, spending mana to activate stuff in this deck is hard. You really need to apply pressure every turn and once you let your mana open to activate something, you're not playing any spells. I wouldn't play Phyrexian Juggernaut because it really is a "dumb beater", just like Moltensteel Dragon, but Dragon is way better because it has evasion. Batterskull has many advantages: lifelink, dying and leaving an artifact for Daretti, being able to pay 3 to return it to your hand to re-use or discard to Daretti... That said, I understand what you're saying. I still want to find a 4th beater like Wurmcoil, Titan and Battlesphere, that does something besides being huge. The perfect candidate is probably Steel Hellkite but, as I said before, my fears of having it stolen are way too big to run it. I've been thinking about Myr Turbine again.
I have no idea why you wouldn't run Winter Orb. It's such a huge and cheap bomb... If you play it right it's like an Armageddon for 2 mana. Static Orb I can understand not running (though I've been trying it again and it's been great).
And combo is really a though match. I lost 3 games to a well tuned Kaalia today. 2 of those games could go either way (one of them I lost for a Bojuka Bog topdecked right the turn before I'd infinite Slaver him), but one of them was a total blast, with Kaalia on T4, with haste and Master of Cruelties coming in... But that game could also be won if he hadn't played Inquisition of Kozilek T1 taking out my Blood Moon... I don't know... that matchup can be won by fast hand and any mana disruption, but I feel it lacks something yet...
Archive doesn't seem very good to me...like I said earlier, if I wS to run it, I would have to test all kinds of new/cards I don't currently run Atm.
Why not cut mortars? Card seems bad as well, as it doesn't blow up lands..
I would run all of the red wrath/dmg effects, like wildfire, burning of xinye, AND destructive force. And winter orb is AMAZING!! Every time I've dropped it, I've seen nothing but pure value from it. Inkmoth isn't that great either, as we aren't trying to fit berserk into this list, but to literally drag it out for as long as possible. Honestly, one of my end win cons is karn, silver golem animating my rocks and having them beat your opponent down.
And between my matchups, I have the hardest time against u/r/(x) control lists, and Tasigur. I've really been tempted to start running tormods crypt/scrabbling claws to start hating on garbage barge/dig through time/Tasigur lists because of this. And just race the combo deck; blow up the board before they combo on yo face G!
Sorry for not having the card available on my text, as doing this from a phone is rather difficult...especially while driving, so cut a brotha some slack.
Dude, are you a type one diabetic? Two diabetics on the same forum!!
On a more related note, Llojira, Koth doesnt seem that good to me either, as you only have twenty six mountains...Why not replace him with another colorless planeswalker? I'm also not sold on Boseiju, who shelters all. I dont run as many instants or sorceries, but I do at least run lightning bolt. It kills JTMS if they use his zero, kills MOST commanders, (I actually killed a tasigur on saturday through goggles with two bolts! :D) and it's just good removal. IMO, I just think that Aftershock is over-costed. And why not Volcanic Fallout? It can't be countered, and kills most aggro/mana dorks. I define an aggro dork as someone like Goblin Guide, for reference..
I also unfortunately cut Squee, Goblin Nabob from my list as well. I disliked him because he didn't DO anything, just sat in my hand as a card to throw away, and when daretti wasn't out, just a dead card. He was always "a little buddy" to my friends, and we'd always scream "SQUEEEEEEEEEEEE!!" followed up with a comical explosion sound as I discarded him haha...
For now, that's all I have to offer for advice. Hope this helps!
@The Diabeetus: I don't run Destructive Force because I run Devastation instead. I could see myself making room for Force, but I don't want to clog the deck with too many 6+ mana spells. One game I lost to Kaalia was because I had a hand with three 6 mana cards... I guess Karn, Silver Golem could be really strong instead of Batterskull. Maybe that's the beater I'm looking for. I used Karn in the first iteration of the deck, but he was there to combo with Mycosynth Lattice. DO you have any Karn combos in your deck or is he good alone?
@DrDiabetes: I like Koth of the Hammer a lot. He untaps lands under Winter Orb/Static Orb, beats your opponent for a lot, generates tons of mana (you can drop Ugin with only 4 lands in play), works well with Moon effects and his ultimate can simply win games. And he cost only 4! Seriously, he's probably the best red planeswalker for a MonoR deck.
Squee should be cut, he's too slow and only works with Daretti in play.
Boseiju, who shelters all wins against counters by itself. Any hard control deck that suffers an uncounterable Devastation, Jokulhaups or Scrap Mastery will have problems coming back. My game against Geist got A LOT better since Winter Orb came back, and since I decided to run REB/Pyro and Boseiju.
I love Volcanic Fallout and I've been meaning to put it back in the deck for a long time. I just can't find the right slot... it kills Geist, Narset, Kaalia and wipes out elves. I really like it. Now, Aftershock was Vandalblast sometime ago, but I swapped for the versatility. Do NOT underestimate this red Vindicate. I got out of a lot of situations because of it, and it's versatility is awesome. Yesterday it killed a Celestial Colonnade that would eventually kill Daretti. Sometimes it kills that pesky Primeval Titan or whatever. It's like Chaos Warp and Dead // Gone: good for versatility.
Karn silver golem is good by himself, and batterskull at least gets you some life out of those situations..I would personally run both. Karn just animates your gilded lotus, your goggles, and lay the hammer down. I don't run lattice, as it also fixes my opponents mana which the is the last thing I want to do for them. Sure, it's nice to pop their lands, but beyond that, they're just two desperate cards where lattice is just a dead card without karn. And just run more rocks if you can't find room for the red wipes mage! Consistency is a must here, as we're somewhat limited on card draw...
I feel I'm running enough rocks already. My problem with the board wipes is that they're great against aggro, but terrible against control - in the sense that they cost a lot and if you don't have a Goggles or Boseiju out, they'll probably counter it anyway. So I like to play with little stuff that come together to an inevitable reset. I run all the 6 mana resets, but 7 and 8 mana just a few. I don't like overloading on that stuff.
Batterskull is also awesome when you equip it to Myr Battlesphere. I've done it several times and it's a blast
I personally run all, because it's something they HAVE to counter. If they don't, they're probably playing Tasigur or just lost the game.and true dat! I run almost all of the two drop rocks to try to get Daretti out t3 as much as possible, and having more rocks is never a bad thing, it just forces them to counter the real threats which are more artifacts which end up in your yard anyway..do you not run obliterate?
If you read the post you'll see my latest list. It doesn't run Obliterate. But I'd definetely run it before Destructive Force. I don't like destroying artifacts too, because it makes me need Daretti in play in order for it to be really effective. I play Jokulhaups just because it's "cheap". But yeah, Obliterate should come in some time.
Yeah... and there are players that say Blood Moon and Magus are not that good. I strongly consider playing Imperial Recruiter just to fetch Magus (and also Welder and Revoker, why not). Then, adding Triskelion, Pentavus or Triskelavus could be a nice idea.
The problem is the meta is shifting away from these heavy nonbasics lists (except Tasigur that just requires it) because they don't want to punt to a Moon. Your top decks, on average, are usually like;
Yisan
Ojutai
Ezuri
Sidisi (mono-B)
Bellstriker
Tasigur
Sigarda? (Or similar Maverick-esque deck, a la Teeg)
Marath
Of these Moon is only effective vs Tasigur and sometimes Ojutai (though they should counter it/fetch appropriately). It's not effective against Marath because they have dorks, or the others because mono decks can laugh their way past a Moon. The Maverick build can also [largely] ignore it, or just shrug it off with proper fetching. That's why many red decks have begun cutting Moons.
I think you are not considering the true power of Blood Moon. Against Marath and Tasigur these effects are very relevant, because you can kill their mana dorks with relative easy. And Tasigur has just a few basics.
The other decks, they all pack few basics and Moon can be a real house even against 2-color decks. At the VERY LEAST, they'll have to really reconsider their mulligan decisions based on which lands they have, just for the fear of Moon. Also, Yisan packs Gaea's Cradle and the like, so Moon also has that hate built into it.
Of course, decks like Zurgo Bellstriker and other mono-colored non-green decks rarely have a relevant non-basic land, but the only decks I really feel Moon is irrelevant is against Keranos/Nin (and MAYBE Augustin/Ojutai). Other control decks are easier to hurt, and against aggro decks it's easier to land Daretti and discard useless stuff if you don't need it.
Sidisi-B is still fringe, yes. But I do predict it will become a thing. it is scary consistent (which happens when your commander is a universal tutour).
Hum, I see your list is closer to the "lots of rocks, lots of global" builds. I don't like that many rocks, because that reduces your threat density. I mean, I compared our lists and you play 1 more mana land than me (we play the same number of lands, but I play 1 Maze of Ith) and you run 4 more rocks. Rocks are cool, but for me you're sacrificing those 4 slots which could easily be Top, Wild Guess, Tormenting Voice and Crystal Ball, y'know? Card draw and manipulation are so good here...
About the lands, Blinkmoth Nexus and Temple of the False God are just bad, aren't they? I mean, do you really need another colorless manland instead of a red-producing land (Kher Keep is probably better, if you do)?. And Temple just feels very awkward together with a Wildfire plan. How many times is it turned offline? Is also doesn't help an early Daretti. Sandstone Needle and Dwarven Ruins are way better.
I already explained why I run Expedition Map instead of Wayfarer's Bauble, but I'd also run Gilded Lotus and Pyromancer's Goggles instead of Coalition Relic and Pilgrim's Eye. I mean, they're both fine and cheaper than what I'm suggesting, but Lotus and Goggles are bombs that help your plan greatly. It's much easier to be able to resolve your stuff and play 1 more spell per turn when you have so much mana. And Wildfire becomes a beast if duplicated.
You run Lodestone over Trinisphere, and I feel Trini hinders you less. I mean, adding 1 mana to the cost of Daretti and all your red destruction spells is not that good, is it? I already ran Golem and didn't like it... how's it working for you?
Also, I feel Pyroclasm should be a Sudden Demise. It's 1 turn slower, but late game it can clean an opposing swarm. Earthquake also should be Rolling Earthquake.
Another difference is you play Destructive Force and All is Dust and I play Smokestack and Nevynirral's Disk. I hate All is Dust for its Daretti-killing capability, so I'd never run it. But I think there's another strategical difference that this kind of choice presents: I like having cheaper threats, it makes the deck faster and more able to drop important cards earlier in the game and keep the pressure against control. Destructive Force is cool, but you don't run Pyro/REB nor Boseiju, so planning on resolving a 7 mana spell against control is begging for them to Time Walk you with a Force Spike.
For the rest, I already said why I don't play Ichor Wellspring, Mishra's Helix, Tsabo's Web and Squee, Goblin Nabob. They're not bad cards, at all. But I would cut them for important things you don't run, like Magus of the Moon, Phyrexian Revoker, Red/Pyro, and artifact removal. Being on the receiving end of a Neddle/Revoker is bad for a Daretti player, and you need cheap ways to remove it. I run Shattering Spree and Aftershock, and feel great about it. Spree is awesome against Geist (or any Sword based general) and artifact ramp Maelstroms.
It is almost as we are not talking about the same deck. I guess that there are many different built. I do agree for some of your changes, but not all. Yeah, earthquake is clearly rolling earthquake, it is a mistake in my decklist.
I do not play pyro because they are bad against everthing not blue and you cannot lose time cycling them. Leaving them aside is cool to give you more slots. If blue is huge in your meta, play them, otherwise keep away. Aftershock is dramaticaly slow and awkward. I also do not like really anti artifact. Sure sometime you can take down a sword or a jitte but i prefer more universal answers such as spine or jokulhaups.
All is dust is an intersting card. It is clearly a "save my butt" card, which means that most of the time, the board will be swarmed and dada not in play. Nevi disk is a build depended inclusion. In a deck full of stones it is a non sense.
About the lands: well, inkmoth and blinkmoth are auto include for me: they are artefact and helps you ping a walker sometimes. Temple of the false god is good in a ramp plan and helps you cast your more expensive spells. Lands taht came into play tapped are bad in my opinion. You want a stable mana base (no sack land except for crystal vein) and mana available immediatly.
I do not understand why you are not willing to play wellspring and squee. They are great card advantage, especially squee. My list is intended to be an anticontrol build, so maybe that my perception of other decklist might be biased.
However, you cite some cards I'd like to give a try: smokestack (seems pretty slow to me, but who knows ?), crystal ball (maybe good in the mid-late game), trinisphere (i am not sure about that one, seems to symetrical to me).
I'm strongly against playing cards that are only good if you have Daretti in play. I've said this many times in the topic hehehe. Squee is one of those cards. And even then, it's slow as hell. If you read the whole topic (I know it's long), you'll see I played Squee in my earlier builds. I'd rather play Alhammarret's Archive if that's what you're looking for. Wellspring is ok, I guess, but I wouldn't play it over any of the draw spells I mentioned earlier. Is also something that's not really that good unless you've got Daretti going.
I like Disk because it's recurrable and works well with Daretti's ultimate (and I've been able to ultimate quite a few times with this deck). It's bad that rocks die with it, so yeah, I'd agree that this is build dependant and not canon.
It's funny how most people in this topic talk bad about the same cards, but I feel they haven't even tested them or understood their role in the deck. Aftershock is a HUGE card, and it's flexibility is awesome, even if kinda expensive. 4 mana "Vindicate" for RED is something seriously good and it has saved me a lot. Remember: is costs 4 mana, not 6 or 7 like Jokulhaups or Spine. This also always happens with Sandstone Needle and Dwarven Ruins, and I can't count anymore how many times I tried to say how f* ing amazing they are hehe. They alow fast Daretti plays, which are HUGE against aggro and combo. Every time I get one of those in my opening hand against a fast deck I feel fine. I once got Sandstone turn 1, City of Traitors + Thran Dynamo turn 2 for a Karn Liberated turn 3. This is a splashy example, but even smaller things like allowing you to drop 2 rocks turn 2, is something valuable.
I don't know what's your experience with the deck, but I've been playing it for almost a year now, to very good results. Pyro/REB and Boseiju are essential to me, since this already deck has a good game against aggro, so we just need help against hard control. You say you have a build focused on winning control, but with such expensive spells and no protection (Pyro/REB/Boseiju/Goggles) I really don't see it. Pyro and REB are dead against just a few decks in the field, and those are the decks you already have a good game against, so cycling them is not a big issue.
The manlands are ok, I just don't have slot for them without hurting my colored mana. I'd rather run Boseiju than them. I still run Inkmoth, but I've been willing to test Mishra's Factory, Kher Keep or maybe another mountain instead. But Temple of the False God I really feel is bad. It only works in the mid-game and if you reset the table it's useless. Also, having too many manlands works badly with Tsabo's Web.
Smokestack is a slow card indeed, but it can easily take over the game in a few turns. Also, any global removal followed by Stack is always amazing. I run it because it's a cheap threat that MUST be answered and it's recurrable with Daretti. Crystal Ball has won me many, many games just by sending the bad stuff to the bottom. It's serioulsy good. Trinisphere could be cut, but not for Lodestone Golem, I think. Lodestone is also symmetrical, and in a worst way for us than Trini, that's what I meant before. Maybe Static Orb? The good thing about Trinisphere is that is also helps a lot against counters. It works as a second Defense Grid, most of the time, just a little worse.
Oh, I forgot to ask about Steel Hellkite. I love the card but never included if because I feel that if it gets stolen I'll be completely screwed... has that happened to you?
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About Pentavus, I tried it and Triskelavus, but having to spend mana to make tokens is a bummer. I wouldn't say they're wrong in the deck. They're fine, as is Triskelion, and maybe I could cut something for one of them. But I never really missed any of those options and always preferred the raw power and low token cost of Myr Battlesphere.
Golem has the 'hands free' aspect to it, in that you don't have to spend mana on it. I think the drawback is concerning though in regards to removal. Golem is also a lot easier to hardcast, and curves out well after Daretti. Turn 3 Daretti, discard, turn 4 Golem, get 2 3/3 tokens, weld out Golem for whatever you discarded. That seems pretty reasonable. And the drawback no longer applies once Golem leaves.
Pentavus doesn't have the drawback, but you need to invest 1 mana for each Pentavite. Is that really so intensive? Pentavus is definitely a lot more techy, and can block fliers which I like. It can also kill itself and build a small army up with Daretti's help.
I thought about Precursor Golem, but I had nightmares where my enemy Repeal'ed a token and drew 3 in the process. There are probably other interactions like that which I don't really want to discover. So I don't like it that much.
My actual problem with Pentavus/Triskelavus is that they cost mana to produce tokens AND they're not bombs. They're just engines for something I don't really need (produce tokens). Battlesphere, Wurmcoil and Sundering Titan are cards that can win the game by themselves. The "Avus Guys" can't, and so can't Precursor Golem. IF you need another bomb in that slot maybe Platinum Emperion is good?
However, I am a personal fan of kher keep, as it literally provides blockers, unlike inkmoth, which counts as your land and can only block once. You shouldnt be trying to fly over them to win, you should win after they have been locked out. Precursor has been on my mind for a while, but his target ability makes me want to vomit in anger. And truthfully, I've really been debating trying to put in trinisphere, to really get that "legacy mudd" feel of the list. And spine has been FANTASTIC! Its also cool to animate with karn, silver golem. 8)
Static Orb is good against ramp and swarm decks. I'm currently not playing it, but I feel it could be good again, now that I'm running Thran Dynamo and Gilded Lotus.
EDIT: I'll test Kher Keep. seems reasonable enough.
t1: mountain, go
his t1: creeping tarpit, go
t2: city of traitors, blood moon, go
proceeds to scoop phase. fastest win i've ever had.
Alhammarret's Archive feels clunky in such a way I don't even care to test it. I will (digitally), but I've had cards like this in the deck before: they come into play and do nothing, except in a few corner cases where they're cool. Ugin's Nexus was one of those: if feels awesome to gain an extra turn, but most of the time you just spend 5 mana or 2 loyalty to let it sit there doing NOTHING. I win my games applying pressure every single turn. Daretti plays 1 card per turn, but all the cards are bombs. If you play something not-bomby, you're lettting the game slide.
I like the infect plan, but it's become too slow for me. As I said many times, spending mana to activate stuff in this deck is hard. You really need to apply pressure every turn and once you let your mana open to activate something, you're not playing any spells. I wouldn't play Phyrexian Juggernaut because it really is a "dumb beater", just like Moltensteel Dragon, but Dragon is way better because it has evasion. Batterskull has many advantages: lifelink, dying and leaving an artifact for Daretti, being able to pay 3 to return it to your hand to re-use or discard to Daretti... That said, I understand what you're saying. I still want to find a 4th beater like Wurmcoil, Titan and Battlesphere, that does something besides being huge. The perfect candidate is probably Steel Hellkite but, as I said before, my fears of having it stolen are way too big to run it. I've been thinking about Myr Turbine again.
I have no idea why you wouldn't run Winter Orb. It's such a huge and cheap bomb... If you play it right it's like an Armageddon for 2 mana. Static Orb I can understand not running (though I've been trying it again and it's been great).
And combo is really a though match. I lost 3 games to a well tuned Kaalia today. 2 of those games could go either way (one of them I lost for a Bojuka Bog topdecked right the turn before I'd infinite Slaver him), but one of them was a total blast, with Kaalia on T4, with haste and Master of Cruelties coming in... But that game could also be won if he hadn't played Inquisition of Kozilek T1 taking out my Blood Moon... I don't know... that matchup can be won by fast hand and any mana disruption, but I feel it lacks something yet...
Why not cut mortars? Card seems bad as well, as it doesn't blow up lands..
I would run all of the red wrath/dmg effects, like wildfire, burning of xinye, AND destructive force. And winter orb is AMAZING!! Every time I've dropped it, I've seen nothing but pure value from it. Inkmoth isn't that great either, as we aren't trying to fit berserk into this list, but to literally drag it out for as long as possible. Honestly, one of my end win cons is karn, silver golem animating my rocks and having them beat your opponent down.
And between my matchups, I have the hardest time against u/r/(x) control lists, and Tasigur. I've really been tempted to start running tormods crypt/scrabbling claws to start hating on garbage barge/dig through time/Tasigur lists because of this. And just race the combo deck; blow up the board before they combo on yo face G!
Sorry for not having the card available on my text, as doing this from a phone is rather difficult...especially while driving, so cut a brotha some slack.
On a more related note, Llojira, Koth doesnt seem that good to me either, as you only have twenty six mountains...Why not replace him with another colorless planeswalker? I'm also not sold on Boseiju, who shelters all. I dont run as many instants or sorceries, but I do at least run lightning bolt. It kills JTMS if they use his zero, kills MOST commanders, (I actually killed a tasigur on saturday through goggles with two bolts! :D) and it's just good removal. IMO, I just think that Aftershock is over-costed. And why not Volcanic Fallout? It can't be countered, and kills most aggro/mana dorks. I define an aggro dork as someone like Goblin Guide, for reference..
I also unfortunately cut Squee, Goblin Nabob from my list as well. I disliked him because he didn't DO anything, just sat in my hand as a card to throw away, and when daretti wasn't out, just a dead card. He was always "a little buddy" to my friends, and we'd always scream "SQUEEEEEEEEEEEE!!" followed up with a comical explosion sound as I discarded him haha...
For now, that's all I have to offer for advice. Hope this helps!
@DrDiabetes: I like Koth of the Hammer a lot. He untaps lands under Winter Orb/Static Orb, beats your opponent for a lot, generates tons of mana (you can drop Ugin with only 4 lands in play), works well with Moon effects and his ultimate can simply win games. And he cost only 4! Seriously, he's probably the best red planeswalker for a MonoR deck.
Squee should be cut, he's too slow and only works with Daretti in play.
Boseiju, who shelters all wins against counters by itself. Any hard control deck that suffers an uncounterable Devastation, Jokulhaups or Scrap Mastery will have problems coming back. My game against Geist got A LOT better since Winter Orb came back, and since I decided to run REB/Pyro and Boseiju.
I love Volcanic Fallout and I've been meaning to put it back in the deck for a long time. I just can't find the right slot... it kills Geist, Narset, Kaalia and wipes out elves. I really like it. Now, Aftershock was Vandalblast sometime ago, but I swapped for the versatility. Do NOT underestimate this red Vindicate. I got out of a lot of situations because of it, and it's versatility is awesome. Yesterday it killed a Celestial Colonnade that would eventually kill Daretti. Sometimes it kills that pesky Primeval Titan or whatever. It's like Chaos Warp and Dead // Gone: good for versatility.
Batterskull is also awesome when you equip it to Myr Battlesphere. I've done it several times and it's a blast
The problem is the meta is shifting away from these heavy nonbasics lists (except Tasigur that just requires it) because they don't want to punt to a Moon. Your top decks, on average, are usually like;
Yisan
Ojutai
Ezuri
Sidisi (mono-B)
Bellstriker
Tasigur
Sigarda? (Or similar Maverick-esque deck, a la Teeg)
Marath
Of these Moon is only effective vs Tasigur and sometimes Ojutai (though they should counter it/fetch appropriately). It's not effective against Marath because they have dorks, or the others because mono decks can laugh their way past a Moon. The Maverick build can also [largely] ignore it, or just shrug it off with proper fetching. That's why many red decks have begun cutting Moons.
Steel Sabotage'ng Orbs of Mellowness since 2011.
The other decks, they all pack few basics and Moon can be a real house even against 2-color decks. At the VERY LEAST, they'll have to really reconsider their mulligan decisions based on which lands they have, just for the fear of Moon. Also, Yisan packs Gaea's Cradle and the like, so Moon also has that hate built into it.
Of course, decks like Zurgo Bellstriker and other mono-colored non-green decks rarely have a relevant non-basic land, but the only decks I really feel Moon is irrelevant is against Keranos/Nin (and MAYBE Augustin/Ojutai). Other control decks are easier to hurt, and against aggro decks it's easier to land Daretti and discard useless stuff if you don't need it.
I would not DEPEND on Moon effects to build any deck, but the trio Blood Moon/Magus of the Moon/Ruination is still quite strong.
Also, I wouldn't consider Sidisi MonoB a relevant deck. At least not in the numbers it's been showing up.
Steel Sabotage'ng Orbs of Mellowness since 2011.
1 Thran Dynamo
1 Spine of Ish Sah
1 Scrap Mastery
1 Karn Liberated
1 Pithing Needle
1 Icy Manipulator
1 Memory Jar
1 Star Compass
1 Mind Stone
1 Mycosynth Wellspring
1 Ichor Wellspring
1 Fellwar Stone
1 Worn Powerstone
1 Steel Hellkite
1 Cursed Totem
1 Gamble
1 Devastation
1 Volcanic Fallout
1 Pyroclasm
1 Blood Moon
1 Mishra's Helix
1 Ruination
1 Earthquake
1 Ugin, the Spirit Dragon
1 Fire Diamond
1 Guardian Idol
1 Buried Ruin
1 Tsabo's Web
1 Coldsteel Heart
1 Ensnaring Bridge
1 Fractured Powerstone
1 Coalition Relic
1 All Is Dust
1 Coercive Portal
1 Burning of Xinye
1 Mindslaver
1 Chaos Warp
1 Trash for Treasure
1 Sphere of the Suns
1 Jokulhaups
1 Destructive Force
1 Staff of Nin
1 Winter Orb
1 Wayfarer's Bauble
1 Everflowing Chalice
1 Faithless Looting
1 Anger of the Gods
1 Wildfire
1 Tangle Wire
1 Defense Grid
1 Crucible of Worlds
1 Phyrexian Processor
1 Sculpting Steel
1 Duplicant
1 Solemn Simulacrum
1 Wurmcoil Engine
1 Myr Battlesphere
1 Squee, Goblin Nabob
1 Kuldotha Forgemaster
1 Goblin Welder
1 Lodestone Golem
1 Pilgrim's Eye
1 Tectonic Edge
1 Mishra's Factory
1 Darksteel Citadel
1 Blinkmoth Nexus
1 Dust Bowl
1 Crystal Vein
1 City of Traitors
1 Temple of the False God
23 Mountain
1 Inkmoth Nexus
1 Great Furnace
1 Wasteland
1 Rishadan Port
About the lands, Blinkmoth Nexus and Temple of the False God are just bad, aren't they? I mean, do you really need another colorless manland instead of a red-producing land (Kher Keep is probably better, if you do)?. And Temple just feels very awkward together with a Wildfire plan. How many times is it turned offline? Is also doesn't help an early Daretti. Sandstone Needle and Dwarven Ruins are way better.
I already explained why I run Expedition Map instead of Wayfarer's Bauble, but I'd also run Gilded Lotus and Pyromancer's Goggles instead of Coalition Relic and Pilgrim's Eye. I mean, they're both fine and cheaper than what I'm suggesting, but Lotus and Goggles are bombs that help your plan greatly. It's much easier to be able to resolve your stuff and play 1 more spell per turn when you have so much mana. And Wildfire becomes a beast if duplicated.
You run Lodestone over Trinisphere, and I feel Trini hinders you less. I mean, adding 1 mana to the cost of Daretti and all your red destruction spells is not that good, is it? I already ran Golem and didn't like it... how's it working for you?
Also, I feel Pyroclasm should be a Sudden Demise. It's 1 turn slower, but late game it can clean an opposing swarm. Earthquake also should be Rolling Earthquake.
Another difference is you play Destructive Force and All is Dust and I play Smokestack and Nevynirral's Disk. I hate All is Dust for its Daretti-killing capability, so I'd never run it. But I think there's another strategical difference that this kind of choice presents: I like having cheaper threats, it makes the deck faster and more able to drop important cards earlier in the game and keep the pressure against control. Destructive Force is cool, but you don't run Pyro/REB nor Boseiju, so planning on resolving a 7 mana spell against control is begging for them to Time Walk you with a Force Spike.
For the rest, I already said why I don't play Ichor Wellspring, Mishra's Helix, Tsabo's Web and Squee, Goblin Nabob. They're not bad cards, at all. But I would cut them for important things you don't run, like Magus of the Moon, Phyrexian Revoker, Red/Pyro, and artifact removal. Being on the receiving end of a Neddle/Revoker is bad for a Daretti player, and you need cheap ways to remove it. I run Shattering Spree and Aftershock, and feel great about it. Spree is awesome against Geist (or any Sword based general) and artifact ramp Maelstroms.
I do not play pyro because they are bad against everthing not blue and you cannot lose time cycling them. Leaving them aside is cool to give you more slots. If blue is huge in your meta, play them, otherwise keep away. Aftershock is dramaticaly slow and awkward. I also do not like really anti artifact. Sure sometime you can take down a sword or a jitte but i prefer more universal answers such as spine or jokulhaups.
All is dust is an intersting card. It is clearly a "save my butt" card, which means that most of the time, the board will be swarmed and dada not in play. Nevi disk is a build depended inclusion. In a deck full of stones it is a non sense.
About the lands: well, inkmoth and blinkmoth are auto include for me: they are artefact and helps you ping a walker sometimes. Temple of the false god is good in a ramp plan and helps you cast your more expensive spells. Lands taht came into play tapped are bad in my opinion. You want a stable mana base (no sack land except for crystal vein) and mana available immediatly.
I do not understand why you are not willing to play wellspring and squee. They are great card advantage, especially squee. My list is intended to be an anticontrol build, so maybe that my perception of other decklist might be biased.
However, you cite some cards I'd like to give a try: smokestack (seems pretty slow to me, but who knows ?), crystal ball (maybe good in the mid-late game), trinisphere (i am not sure about that one, seems to symetrical to me).
I like Disk because it's recurrable and works well with Daretti's ultimate (and I've been able to ultimate quite a few times with this deck). It's bad that rocks die with it, so yeah, I'd agree that this is build dependant and not canon.
It's funny how most people in this topic talk bad about the same cards, but I feel they haven't even tested them or understood their role in the deck. Aftershock is a HUGE card, and it's flexibility is awesome, even if kinda expensive. 4 mana "Vindicate" for RED is something seriously good and it has saved me a lot. Remember: is costs 4 mana, not 6 or 7 like Jokulhaups or Spine. This also always happens with Sandstone Needle and Dwarven Ruins, and I can't count anymore how many times I tried to say how f* ing amazing they are hehe. They alow fast Daretti plays, which are HUGE against aggro and combo. Every time I get one of those in my opening hand against a fast deck I feel fine. I once got Sandstone turn 1, City of Traitors + Thran Dynamo turn 2 for a Karn Liberated turn 3. This is a splashy example, but even smaller things like allowing you to drop 2 rocks turn 2, is something valuable.
I don't know what's your experience with the deck, but I've been playing it for almost a year now, to very good results. Pyro/REB and Boseiju are essential to me, since this already deck has a good game against aggro, so we just need help against hard control. You say you have a build focused on winning control, but with such expensive spells and no protection (Pyro/REB/Boseiju/Goggles) I really don't see it. Pyro and REB are dead against just a few decks in the field, and those are the decks you already have a good game against, so cycling them is not a big issue.
The manlands are ok, I just don't have slot for them without hurting my colored mana. I'd rather run Boseiju than them. I still run Inkmoth, but I've been willing to test Mishra's Factory, Kher Keep or maybe another mountain instead. But Temple of the False God I really feel is bad. It only works in the mid-game and if you reset the table it's useless. Also, having too many manlands works badly with Tsabo's Web.
Smokestack is a slow card indeed, but it can easily take over the game in a few turns. Also, any global removal followed by Stack is always amazing. I run it because it's a cheap threat that MUST be answered and it's recurrable with Daretti.
Crystal Ball has won me many, many games just by sending the bad stuff to the bottom. It's serioulsy good.
Trinisphere could be cut, but not for Lodestone Golem, I think. Lodestone is also symmetrical, and in a worst way for us than Trini, that's what I meant before. Maybe Static Orb? The good thing about Trinisphere is that is also helps a lot against counters. It works as a second Defense Grid, most of the time, just a little worse.
Oh, I forgot to ask about Steel Hellkite. I love the card but never included if because I feel that if it gets stolen I'll be completely screwed... has that happened to you?