So I just played a small 8 player tournament where I took second.
Round 1 was against karador, ghost chieftain. I lost 2-0 because he got devastatingly good hands that spiraled out of control. It was really hard to keep up with a turn 1 deathrite shaman both games, with a turn 2 mother of runes the second. I felt like maybe if he had gotten a slower start, or I had a bit more pressure, things would have been better, but to be fair, his deck is incredibly strong and resilient. I usually end up against him in the finals and struggle even when I'm playing much more finely tuned decks than this one. We played some more practice games in between rounds and I did much better. It's still a really hard match though even with a better start.
Round 2 was against arcum dagson. Game 1 was won in short order via entomb for master of cruelties, with a path to exile to pick off his blocker. game 2 I got stuck on 3 lands with a pack rat on the field and a terminate, but no red mana. he managed to combo out the turn before he would have died, and I felt like if I had had the red source I would have been able to easily sweep. game 3 was much closer, but a turn 2 mesmeric fiend grabbing thousand year elixer into a kicked orim's thunder on a myr foundry that he fetched to kill arcum shut his combo down in short order, allowing me to easily swing for the win.
round 3 was against ghoulcaller ghisa. I easily overwhelmed him game one with things like hound of griselbrand and mirran crusader with a jitte. His stream of zombies couldn't keep up. Game 2 he mulled down to 6, and then I ravaged his hand with turn 1 thoughtsieze and inquisition of kozilek, and then simply overran him once he had nothing.
Overall I felt really good about the deck. It definitely still needs some tweaking, and I would like to include something like brutal hordecheif or hellrider, but nothing really underperformed. However there's still some cards that I haven't seen in testing yet, so it's hard to say what to cut. hound of griselbrand was seriously an allstar though. I never once felt bad drawing it. flesh carver was a similar solid creature every single time I played it.
He is OK. Infect + First Strike makes for a fairly potent combination, but ultimately, what you want from Infectors is evasion - hence Tine Shriek & Shriek Raptor are both stronger than Swine. This is also why Phyrexian Vatmother, while it sounds good on paper, is no more than a resounding "meh" in the heat of battle.
So 3drinks, did you try the infect build? did it work?
I was thinking about making some quick aggro, or disruption, or stax or infect.
And I wonder what works in duels.
I am in-testing with it. I will likely take it to FNM this week for our DC event. Unless I decide to play Bellstriker AiR again because I love the deck.
So 3drinks, did you try the infect build? did it work?
I was thinking about making some quick aggro, or disruption, or stax or infect.
And I wonder what works in duels.
I am in-testing with it. I will likely take it to FNM this week for our DC event. Unless I decide to play Bellstriker AiR again because I love the deck.
Ok, so if you play Alesha, write some report then, I would like to read it. Thanks
So 3drinks, did you try the infect build? did it work?
I was thinking about making some quick aggro, or disruption, or stax or infect.
And I wonder what works in duels.
I am in-testing with it. I will likely take it to FNM this week for our DC event. Unless I decide to play Bellstriker AiR again because I love the deck.
Ok, so if you play Alesha, write some report then, I would like to read it. Thanks
Grand Abolisher and Sin Collector aren't very aggressive, I ended up taking them out of my Karador deck. I know that the meta is often draw go control, but you don't want to run cards that are just bad against another aggro deck.
I know you disagree on this but Kolaghan's Command is amazing. I just have to put it out there.
no swords?
Phyresis could be a nice way to give your general Infect.
Hand of the Praetors could be good depending on how many infect creatures you run. But 3 power so i can see why you wouldn't use it.
Hero of Oxid Ridge, Márton Stromgald or anything else that pumps up infect creatures could win you the game right then and there. The former probably being the better choice with the haste surprise factor. The latter being recurable with Alesha
RE @Dementia Master: I think the problem with your particular list is, it does not have enough pressure and threats. There's got to be a certain balance that, can be hard to attain given the plentiful disruption Mardu is blessed with. You have to make the call on the right number, while still having the oomph to finish the game.
RE @FearDReaper: It is a testing process, still a lot of data to gather - I've been working feverishly on Zurgo, Kaalia, and ofc Marchesa suggestions so I have neglected this deck a bit. But I believe Zurgo is now finished, so I can work on this some more.
EDIT: I added the first D&T list I'll be testing this week.
What is your opinion on Priest of the Blood Rite from origins? I really like him but I have a feeling im the only one He would work well in Alesha, in fact he may have been made for her. Im thinking of putting him in Marchesa as well.
I run Elesh Norn in my karador deck and its the bomb. They have similar strategies. But I have access to green mana dudes and you dont. You might want to just stay away from 7 drops if your not running green. I dont touch 7 in marchesa (cutting Thraximundar hurt my soul lol) Elspeth is probably what I would go with.
What is your opinion on Priest of the Blood Rite from origins? I really like him but I have a feeling im the only one He would work well in Alesha, in fact he may have been made for her. Im thinking of putting him in Marchesa as well.
This is one of those guys that is only good with Alesha. Yeah, Master of Cruelties is only good with Alesha too, but that wins the game if unblockled - this doesn't. I'd need to be playing Reveillark to justify this guy.
I run Elesh Norn in my karador deck and its the bomb. They have similar strategies. But I have access to green mana dudes and you dont. You might want to just stay away from 7 drops if your not running green. I dont touch 7 in marchesa (cutting Thraximundar hurt my soul lol) Elspeth is probably what I would go with.
Elspeth seems more universally useful in more situations, yes.
Wait...Your not running Reveillark iin a deck that loves having creatures with 2 or less power? Seems like a no brainer to me. Why aren't you?
Because it doesn't fit into the deck.
It sounds like I'm upsetting you so ill stop bothering you. But imo 6-7 drops are a bit high for the spiky aggro strategy. I would use it over both Elesh Norn and Elspeth but your the pro/pilot of the deck so im sure whatever you choose is best.
Consider using it over the Anthem in the other list.
Food for thought: Other then Alesha, how does your deck recover from board wipes?
Wait...Your not running Reveillark iin a deck that loves having creatures with 2 or less power? Seems like a no brainer to me. Why aren't you?
Because it doesn't fit into the deck.
It sounds like I'm upsetting you so ill stop bothering you. But imo 6-7 drops are a bit high for the spiky aggro strategy. I would use it over both Elesh Norn and Elspeth but your the pro/pilot of the deck so im sure whatever you choose is best.
Consider using it over the Anthem in the other list.
Food for thought: Other then Alesha, how does your deck recover from board wipes?
No worries, you're not a bother mate. 'Llark is a good creature card, but it remains just that - it has no real synergies or exploit-ability in the deck and remains just a good really good five drop. I don't really consider this a true aggro deck anyway (3c tends to make a poor choice for aggro), rather I consider it more like a midrange disruption deck with efficient threats, like an alternate Anafenza, the Foremost where we can break the symmetry of cards like B Braids and Contamination, as well as set up soft locks with Fulminator/Avalanche. Meanwhile the Elspeth, Sun's Champion threatens a one-sided sweep, while pressuring control, and offering an Emblem that massively speeds up the clock while not inhibiting our commander's ability.
In the other build, Anthem of Rakdos plays a pivotal role - giving all your Infectors +2/+0 (or the Furnace effect if you're under Hellbent status!) is a huge swing in the power balance, often setting up a one turn clock with just two guys on the board.
The deck recovers from board wipes by a number of methods. 1) We don't over-extend; this is fairly easy to keep in check since all of our threats are either disruption, or strong enough to swing a game back to us, 2) We play copious amounts of card draw to keep our hand stocked and our deck easy to cycle through, be that cantrips like Phyrexian Rager or Disciple of Bolas, or raw draw like Night's Whisper and Mask of Memory, or 3) We just pull the early threat to our board out of their hand, which is doable because we play a lot of hand disruption (some of which is even reusable by Alesha's ability).
Pretty eventful night. For my efforts, I earned two DTK packs and an FNM Path to Exile. I don't really need a 2nd Path, but I like the art more. But it's not like having two is a bad thing - it's like my still having an ONS Wooded Foothills & a KTK version. Oh, and I bought a Karn Liberated for $42. W/e...at least I have one now. <3
R1 I get some non-tiered monstrosity that was built for multiplayer (even still had Sol Ring in his deck). We corrected him and pointed him to the banlist and rules, and we played...it was utterly embarrassing for him both games. I easily piloted this to a 2-0 finish while he did a whole lot of nothing. Oh, I remember in g2 he full tapped for a Burnished Hart, so I played Banisher Priest and Waste'd his cycle land (he missed a land drop) to keep him from cracking that dude. A couple turns later he Downfalls my Priest (on his turn, why I don't know) to get his guy back...then I rip Leonin Relic-Warder off the top and take him again. Next turn came SFM < Batterskull, which was merely a formality.
R2 I get the tough draw in Sigarda. G1 I manage to take after I take out two of his lands (Sinkhole, Mangara of Corondor) after he resolves the Angel. This kept him on just a single W. I hardcast Master of Cruelties and he drops a dork (I think Boreal Druid) and bashes 5. I untap and Elspeth, Sun's Champion with a -3, attack and force a chump. He draws Linvala and passes back (can't cast it). I push Master through again, set him to 1, and pass. He draws the elder dragon with lifelink and a Grand Abolisher effect, still can't cast it, and taps Mana Confluence FTL. G2 & G3 both go late, with g2 swinging his way after being in top deck mode, and facing down my Bitterblossom to chump with, he blind rips Stoneforge Mystic to find SoFaF and...
G3 sees me hardcast Master of Cruelties again, this time my demon meets a Banishing Light but my next turn I cast Council's Judgment for Light to get him back, equip my SoLaS, but this time he finds Unexpectedly Absent with Top, to put him on top deck. This gives him time to play that Elder Dragon again and continue beating me with the Angel. I'm near-death but I try once more to play hasty Demon, equip SoLaS to him and swing past the Dragon...but I didn't see the Dryad Arbor that happily jumped on that grenade. Fantastic games, very interactive all around. Even in a loss, I enjoyed them.
R3 sees me fight an Omnath player to a 2-0 win. He starts with t1 Exploration into t2 Omnath, full tapping into my Mana Tithe (he didn't have another land). I then Brain Maggot to see Akroma's Memorial, Ring of Three Wishes, and Wood Elves. Obv I take Elves to keep him off mana. Next turn I rip Demonic Tutor, find Braids, Cabal Minion, and pass. Turn after I drop Braids and that's a wrap - he isn't making land drops and he's losing a land/turn. G2 sees a very similar opening, only this time I wrap it up with Contamination, fed by the same Brain Maggot from g1.
A few notes I discovered: Mangara isn't that good without a critical mass of sac outlets. Although even as it sits now, Mangara is still a Vindicate that exiles - that isn't bad per-say. I'm open to Karmic Guide in this slot - that works with my commander, and has the built-in sac outlet. As an added bonus, it has evasion too. If not Karmic, then I'm open to either Bone Shredder or Faceless Butcher (though the latter is a four cmc Fiend Hunter, and that is a turn off)...but the former is just a Terror with evasion.
Good info. I would like to see how your deck does against a blue white deck. White green is a ***** eh.
God yes, I hate these WG decks. But it's better than fighting permission because at least I don't feel powerless versus the counter wall.
I imagine I'm in a good place vs WU, based on the high amounts of hand disruption I pack. That's mere theory though. Someone had the Yisan list that Moondust piloted in the huge event, I kind of hoped I got that so I could see how the deck does there.
Round 1 was against karador, ghost chieftain. I lost 2-0 because he got devastatingly good hands that spiraled out of control. It was really hard to keep up with a turn 1 deathrite shaman both games, with a turn 2 mother of runes the second. I felt like maybe if he had gotten a slower start, or I had a bit more pressure, things would have been better, but to be fair, his deck is incredibly strong and resilient. I usually end up against him in the finals and struggle even when I'm playing much more finely tuned decks than this one. We played some more practice games in between rounds and I did much better. It's still a really hard match though even with a better start.
Round 2 was against arcum dagson. Game 1 was won in short order via entomb for master of cruelties, with a path to exile to pick off his blocker. game 2 I got stuck on 3 lands with a pack rat on the field and a terminate, but no red mana. he managed to combo out the turn before he would have died, and I felt like if I had had the red source I would have been able to easily sweep. game 3 was much closer, but a turn 2 mesmeric fiend grabbing thousand year elixer into a kicked orim's thunder on a myr foundry that he fetched to kill arcum shut his combo down in short order, allowing me to easily swing for the win.
round 3 was against ghoulcaller ghisa. I easily overwhelmed him game one with things like hound of griselbrand and mirran crusader with a jitte. His stream of zombies couldn't keep up. Game 2 he mulled down to 6, and then I ravaged his hand with turn 1 thoughtsieze and inquisition of kozilek, and then simply overran him once he had nothing.
Overall I felt really good about the deck. It definitely still needs some tweaking, and I would like to include something like brutal hordecheif or hellrider, but nothing really underperformed. However there's still some cards that I haven't seen in testing yet, so it's hard to say what to cut. hound of griselbrand was seriously an allstar though. I never once felt bad drawing it. flesh carver was a similar solid creature every single time I played it.
Steel Sabotage'ng Orbs of Mellowness since 2011.
He is OK. Infect + First Strike makes for a fairly potent combination, but ultimately, what you want from Infectors is evasion - hence Tine Shriek & Shriek Raptor are both stronger than Swine. This is also why Phyrexian Vatmother, while it sounds good on paper, is no more than a resounding "meh" in the heat of battle.
Steel Sabotage'ng Orbs of Mellowness since 2011.
I was thinking about making some quick aggro, or disruption, or stax or infect.
And I wonder what works in duels.
I am in-testing with it. I will likely take it to FNM this week for our DC event. Unless I decide to play Bellstriker AiR again because I love the deck.
Steel Sabotage'ng Orbs of Mellowness since 2011.
Ok, so if you play Alesha, write some report then, I would like to read it. Thanks
I certainly well mate.
Steel Sabotage'ng Orbs of Mellowness since 2011.
I know you disagree on this but Kolaghan's Command is amazing. I just have to put it out there.
no swords?
Phyresis could be a nice way to give your general Infect.
Hand of the Praetors could be good depending on how many infect creatures you run. But 3 power so i can see why you wouldn't use it.
Fulminator Mage....... nuff said
Hero of Oxid Ridge, Márton Stromgald or anything else that pumps up infect creatures could win you the game right then and there. The former probably being the better choice with the haste surprise factor. The latter being recurable with Alesha
BChainer, Dementia Master(Big Mana/Reanimator)
BRRakdos, The Showstopper (Mass Life Loss/Ramp)
BUThe Scarab God (Zombie Tribal/Control)
BWKarlov of the Ghost Council (Life Gain)
BGJarad, Golgari Lich Lord (Stompy/Dredge)
BRGProssh, Skyraider of Kher (Tokens/Non-infinite Combo)
RE @FearDReaper: It is a testing process, still a lot of data to gather - I've been working feverishly on Zurgo, Kaalia, and ofc Marchesa suggestions so I have neglected this deck a bit. But I believe Zurgo is now finished, so I can work on this some more.
EDIT: I added the first D&T list I'll be testing this week.
Steel Sabotage'ng Orbs of Mellowness since 2011.
Good luck with the testing.
BChainer, Dementia Master(Big Mana/Reanimator)
BRRakdos, The Showstopper (Mass Life Loss/Ramp)
BUThe Scarab God (Zombie Tribal/Control)
BWKarlov of the Ghost Council (Life Gain)
BGJarad, Golgari Lich Lord (Stompy/Dredge)
BRGProssh, Skyraider of Kher (Tokens/Non-infinite Combo)
I made a few posts with pictures in the other Zurgo thread, but I don't have a thread yet. It also needs a few tweaks from the last time I played it.
Steel Sabotage'ng Orbs of Mellowness since 2011.
Steel Sabotage'ng Orbs of Mellowness since 2011.
*My bad, she's not ...
I think i prefer Elspeth, -3 is pretty awesome in this deck.
Yeah, I like Elspeth in this deck too. So backbreaking, and one less mana than Elesh Norn.
Steel Sabotage'ng Orbs of Mellowness since 2011.
BChainer, Dementia Master(Big Mana/Reanimator)
BRRakdos, The Showstopper (Mass Life Loss/Ramp)
BUThe Scarab God (Zombie Tribal/Control)
BWKarlov of the Ghost Council (Life Gain)
BGJarad, Golgari Lich Lord (Stompy/Dredge)
BRGProssh, Skyraider of Kher (Tokens/Non-infinite Combo)
BChainer, Dementia Master(Big Mana/Reanimator)
BRRakdos, The Showstopper (Mass Life Loss/Ramp)
BUThe Scarab God (Zombie Tribal/Control)
BWKarlov of the Ghost Council (Life Gain)
BGJarad, Golgari Lich Lord (Stompy/Dredge)
BRGProssh, Skyraider of Kher (Tokens/Non-infinite Combo)
This is one of those guys that is only good with Alesha. Yeah, Master of Cruelties is only good with Alesha too, but that wins the game if unblockled - this doesn't. I'd need to be playing Reveillark to justify this guy.
Elspeth seems more universally useful in more situations, yes.
Steel Sabotage'ng Orbs of Mellowness since 2011.
BChainer, Dementia Master(Big Mana/Reanimator)
BRRakdos, The Showstopper (Mass Life Loss/Ramp)
BUThe Scarab God (Zombie Tribal/Control)
BWKarlov of the Ghost Council (Life Gain)
BGJarad, Golgari Lich Lord (Stompy/Dredge)
BRGProssh, Skyraider of Kher (Tokens/Non-infinite Combo)
Because it doesn't fit into the deck.
Steel Sabotage'ng Orbs of Mellowness since 2011.
It sounds like I'm upsetting you so ill stop bothering you. But imo 6-7 drops are a bit high for the spiky aggro strategy. I would use it over both Elesh Norn and Elspeth but your the pro/pilot of the deck so im sure whatever you choose is best.
Consider using it over the Anthem in the other list.
Food for thought: Other then Alesha, how does your deck recover from board wipes?
BChainer, Dementia Master(Big Mana/Reanimator)
BRRakdos, The Showstopper (Mass Life Loss/Ramp)
BUThe Scarab God (Zombie Tribal/Control)
BWKarlov of the Ghost Council (Life Gain)
BGJarad, Golgari Lich Lord (Stompy/Dredge)
BRGProssh, Skyraider of Kher (Tokens/Non-infinite Combo)
No worries, you're not a bother mate. 'Llark is a good creature card, but it remains just that - it has no real synergies or exploit-ability in the deck and remains just a good really good five drop. I don't really consider this a true aggro deck anyway (3c tends to make a poor choice for aggro), rather I consider it more like a midrange disruption deck with efficient threats, like an alternate Anafenza, the Foremost where we can break the symmetry of cards like B Braids and Contamination, as well as set up soft locks with Fulminator/Avalanche. Meanwhile the Elspeth, Sun's Champion threatens a one-sided sweep, while pressuring control, and offering an Emblem that massively speeds up the clock while not inhibiting our commander's ability.
In the other build, Anthem of Rakdos plays a pivotal role - giving all your Infectors +2/+0 (or the Furnace effect if you're under Hellbent status!) is a huge swing in the power balance, often setting up a one turn clock with just two guys on the board.
The deck recovers from board wipes by a number of methods. 1) We don't over-extend; this is fairly easy to keep in check since all of our threats are either disruption, or strong enough to swing a game back to us, 2) We play copious amounts of card draw to keep our hand stocked and our deck easy to cycle through, be that cantrips like Phyrexian Rager or Disciple of Bolas, or raw draw like Night's Whisper and Mask of Memory, or 3) We just pull the early threat to our board out of their hand, which is doable because we play a lot of hand disruption (some of which is even reusable by Alesha's ability).
Steel Sabotage'ng Orbs of Mellowness since 2011.
R1 I get some non-tiered monstrosity that was built for multiplayer (even still had Sol Ring in his deck). We corrected him and pointed him to the banlist and rules, and we played...it was utterly embarrassing for him both games. I easily piloted this to a 2-0 finish while he did a whole lot of nothing. Oh, I remember in g2 he full tapped for a Burnished Hart, so I played Banisher Priest and Waste'd his cycle land (he missed a land drop) to keep him from cracking that dude. A couple turns later he Downfalls my Priest (on his turn, why I don't know) to get his guy back...then I rip Leonin Relic-Warder off the top and take him again. Next turn came SFM < Batterskull, which was merely a formality.
R2 I get the tough draw in Sigarda. G1 I manage to take after I take out two of his lands (Sinkhole, Mangara of Corondor) after he resolves the Angel. This kept him on just a single W. I hardcast Master of Cruelties and he drops a dork (I think Boreal Druid) and bashes 5. I untap and Elspeth, Sun's Champion with a -3, attack and force a chump. He draws Linvala and passes back (can't cast it). I push Master through again, set him to 1, and pass. He draws the elder dragon with lifelink and a Grand Abolisher effect, still can't cast it, and taps Mana Confluence FTL. G2 & G3 both go late, with g2 swinging his way after being in top deck mode, and facing down my Bitterblossom to chump with, he blind rips Stoneforge Mystic to find SoFaF and...
G3 sees me hardcast Master of Cruelties again, this time my demon meets a Banishing Light but my next turn I cast Council's Judgment for Light to get him back, equip my SoLaS, but this time he finds Unexpectedly Absent with Top, to put him on top deck. This gives him time to play that Elder Dragon again and continue beating me with the Angel. I'm near-death but I try once more to play hasty Demon, equip SoLaS to him and swing past the Dragon...but I didn't see the Dryad Arbor that happily jumped on that grenade. Fantastic games, very interactive all around. Even in a loss, I enjoyed them.
R3 sees me fight an Omnath player to a 2-0 win. He starts with t1 Exploration into t2 Omnath, full tapping into my Mana Tithe (he didn't have another land). I then Brain Maggot to see Akroma's Memorial, Ring of Three Wishes, and Wood Elves. Obv I take Elves to keep him off mana. Next turn I rip Demonic Tutor, find Braids, Cabal Minion, and pass. Turn after I drop Braids and that's a wrap - he isn't making land drops and he's losing a land/turn. G2 sees a very similar opening, only this time I wrap it up with Contamination, fed by the same Brain Maggot from g1.
A few notes I discovered: Mangara isn't that good without a critical mass of sac outlets. Although even as it sits now, Mangara is still a Vindicate that exiles - that isn't bad per-say. I'm open to Karmic Guide in this slot - that works with my commander, and has the built-in sac outlet. As an added bonus, it has evasion too. If not Karmic, then I'm open to either Bone Shredder or Faceless Butcher (though the latter is a four cmc Fiend Hunter, and that is a turn off)...but the former is just a Terror with evasion.
Steel Sabotage'ng Orbs of Mellowness since 2011.
BChainer, Dementia Master(Big Mana/Reanimator)
BRRakdos, The Showstopper (Mass Life Loss/Ramp)
BUThe Scarab God (Zombie Tribal/Control)
BWKarlov of the Ghost Council (Life Gain)
BGJarad, Golgari Lich Lord (Stompy/Dredge)
BRGProssh, Skyraider of Kher (Tokens/Non-infinite Combo)
God yes, I hate these WG decks. But it's better than fighting permission because at least I don't feel powerless versus the counter wall.
I imagine I'm in a good place vs WU, based on the high amounts of hand disruption I pack. That's mere theory though. Someone had the Yisan list that Moondust piloted in the huge event, I kind of hoped I got that so I could see how the deck does there.
Steel Sabotage'ng Orbs of Mellowness since 2011.