Here is my Niv-Mizzett deck. It's built for large, multi-player games. Because the standard win-con is so limited (can only take out one or two players with Niv-Mizzet/Curiousity before running out of cards in your library), I've added cards to the deck to facilitate a win over a large number of players all at once.
I've agonized over each choice, maximizing the combo potential of each card. If you have a suggestion, I gladly welcome it, but will need to know which card it should replace and how it will contribute to the deck in a better overall manner. I'm not even going to say this is perfect, or even good, but it's got a 5-3 record in big, multi-player games, even when I'm being hated out in the second game. (It could be 6-3, but I took it easy one time, since I had just won 7 packs in the previous pack-ante game, heheh) EDIT - Now 7-4.
I play this deck for two reasons; first, Niv is my all-time favorite card. Second, it fits my style of play. I try to win without using the same combo every time, but it is good to know they are there if I need them.
I'm looking forward to your comments and suggestions...
Cards that didn't make it... Gifts Ungiven - too broken, about to be banned, just too much... for a casual game. Arcanis the Omnipotent - Would love to add, but just can't fit it in. Any ideas which card to remove for it? Dizzy Spell and Drift of Phantasms - Again, too much. Will get me the cards I need to win, but too much for a casual game. Vesuvan Shapeshifter and Brine Elemental - Would love to fit this in. But again, no fun... Draining Whelk - This card really needs to be in the deck, but no room. Glen Elendra Archmage - Another that needs to be in this deck. Copy Artifact - Another just miss. Dream Fracture - Softens the blow. Sure, I counter your uber-card, so here's another... heheh Evacuation - Garners too much hate... same with Inundate Ancestral Vision - just takes too long unless you get it early. Fanning the Flames - Definitely deserves a spot, but what to take out? Found it sitting in my hand unused in my tests. Tradewind Rider - My second favorite card! Just not enough creatures to make it viable... Timestop - Not quite a Time Walk, not so effective in a multi-player game.
Ways this deck has won:
Curiousity/Niv/Neko-Te until no cards in my deck taking out 4 players, then cast Beacon of Tomorrows for infinite turns until the last 2 conceded.
Mirror Sheen/Turnabout - Infinite colored mana. Capsize all other permanents but mine. Attack with stolen creatures.
A stolen Seedborn Muse and Mindslaver/Academy Ruins. Master Transmuter to get it back into play each turn. Controlled every turn until game ended.
Memnarch - Stealing all relevant permanents, backed up by counters.
Knowledge Exploitation - Stealing Time Stretch and then casting Twincast and Fork. Got out Teferi and then attacked each player with artifacts turned creatures by Tezzeret.
Mindslaver my red opponent with a big Heart of Bogardan followed by a Demonfire to take out one opponent. Spelljacked a Cruel Ultimatuum and got back a Gilded Drake to steel his Garza Zol, then Bribery'd a Body Double to copy the black creature with the counter you pop to remove everyone's hands but yours that was discarded due to the Ultimatuum.
you have hinder, you should also consider, Vendilion Clique, Spin into myth and the card that these all combo with Tunnel Vision! This will allow you an alternate win con from just your general. Though this win con is only really good against one of your opponents, with 3 of these put into the library effects you have a shot at stopping several of your opponents
Also to combo with the clique, you may want to run Boomerang, Venser, Shaper Savant (which you already have) or other bounce effects.
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"As the size of an explosion increases, the number of social situations it is incapable of solving approaches zero." -- Varsuvius, Order of the Stick
you have hinder, you should also consider, Vendilion Clique, Spin into myth and the card that these all combo with Tunnel Vision! This will allow you an alternate win con from just your general. Though this win con is only really good against one of your opponents, with 3 of these put into the library effects you have a shot at stopping several of your opponents
Also to combo with the clique, you may want to run Boomerang, Venser, Shaper Savant (which you already have) or other bounce effects.
Which cards would I remove for them? Besides, as you said, Tunnel Vision is only good against one opponent. This is for big multi-player games, where you need to take them all out at once if possible, or else once you take one out, all laser sights focus on you...
Made some changes to the deck (after more agony!-heheh)
Removed Control Magic for Treachery - untapping 5 lands is worth one more mana.
Removed Sigil of Sleep for Guile - Sigil of Sleep is an underwhelming effect. Guile is huge.
first things first, your mana base should have a a maximum of 40 lands, and a minimum of 35 lands. A control deck of your sort in particular should have no less than 37 lands.
Trickbind is good, Stifle is better (sure Stifle doesn't have split second, but Stifle does more than Trickbind does, plus it costs less).
You really don't need Vedalken Orrery if you are also running Teferi, I suppose redundancy is a good thing, but too much of a good thing is too much.
Since you are in the colors, I would run the stealthsuit and disregard the Lightning Greaves alltogether, since the stealthsuit can be equiped at instant speed where as the Greaves cannot.
I would go with the over the Mirror Sheen since you can make the Mirari indestructible.
Other than these changes, I can't think of anything to change.
I mean, sure, having multiples of a given effect is a good idea. However the problem is finding the balance between too many multiples (sometimes 2 copies of a given effect is too many) and to few multiples.
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"As the size of an explosion increases, the number of social situations it is incapable of solving approaches zero." -- Varsuvius, Order of the Stick
first things first, your mana base should have a a maximum of 40 lands, and a minimum of 35 lands. A control deck of your sort in particular should have no less than 37 lands.
You are, of course, correct, but I'm counting the 4 mana producing artifacts as part of my mana base. But you are right, I need more lands. So far, I have not had any mana issues with the deck. If I ever do start having mana issues, I'll add more, and if I do find cards that don't work optimally, they'll be replaced by lands. One thing though is that our play group has banned mass land destruction and we get a free mulligan, so I've yet to be bit by the manascrew with this deck.
Having my own Rhystic Study and being able to copy my opponent's Study or even Land Tax has been key. I think Steal Enchantment might also be good, but I run Copy Enchantment over that to prevent the hate that comes from taking someone's Study or Land Tax. When you copy a Rhystic, suddenly the game gets very interesting, since spells can now cost 2 extra mana. You'd be surprised how many people give up the cards just so they can cast their spells after waiting so long in a big game for their turn.
Trickbind is good, Stifle is better (sure Stifle doesn't have split second, but Stifle does more than Trickbind does, plus it costs less).
What more does Stifle do than Trickbind? Both counter target activated or triggered ability. Trickbind also stops it from being played again that turn along with the split second, so I think you got that backwards. But yeah, it does cost less, but cost is generally not an issue in EDH. I'd rather have the card that does more, even if it costs a bit more.
I think I need the Trickbind because it stops retarded things combo decks do, like mine...heheh. Being able to stop that effect, whatever it is, from occurring again that turn, I can usually have a chance when another deck goes off. I wouldn't mind adding it in with Trickbind, but what to take out...?
You really don't need Vedalken Orrery if you are also running Teferi, I suppose redundancy is a good thing, but too much of a good thing is too much.
I am trying for 'balanced redundancy' here. With a bunch of singleton cards in a 100-card deck, and few search tools, I want to have multiple cards that produce similar effects to ensure that I get them when I need them. For example, I also have Winding Canyons to do somewhat the same thing. The reason for these three is to be able to play my Niv at the most opportune time. By 'balanced redundancy', I mean I want a deck that functions the way I want it to, but not so overwhelming that it will be kicked out/banned or so I will be hated out of games. That's why I don't run the transmute cards for my wincon or Gifts Ungiven. It's just too much.
Since you are in the colors, I would run the stealthsuit and disregard the Lightning Greaves alltogether, since the stealthsuit can be equiped at instant speed where as the Greaves cannot.
Greaves give haste. Stealthsuit does not. Big difference. I've had them both in play before and being able to use both has saved my general from targeted destruction.
I would go with the over the Mirror Sheen since you can make the Mirari indestructible.
Again, redundancy is good. Using this to copy your own Time Stretch is incredible...
Other than these changes, I can't think of anything to change.
That means I'm getting close...
I mean, sure, having multiples of a given effect is a good idea. However the problem is finding the balance between too many multiples (sometimes 2 copies of a given effect is too many) and to few multiples.
Well, it's focus that matters. There are certain things I want to be able to do with this deck. Being able to do them in different ways can throw my opponents off. I do understand what you mean. For example, I used to run a Fervor and Akroma's Memorial as redundant haste grantors and realized that between the Elixer and the Greaves, I had all the haste I needed.
Having both Mirari and Mirror Sheen is good because they do different things. Mirari is only good for my spells. Mirror Sheen is good for both my own and my opponent's spells aimed at my head.
Feldon's Cane + Niviosity = kill 2 players, discard down to 7, reload your deck.
That doesn't really help unless I'm going off with Mind over Matter. With 'Niviosity', all the cards are in my hand. That's why I have Time Spiral and Time Twister. I can cast Time Twister for 3 and continue until my deck gets low, then cast Time Spiral, which is removed from game, but returns the Time Twister to my deck, then cast Time Twister again and then use Relearn and/or Izzet Chronarch to get it back and do it again and again and again and... in perpetuity. With Neko-Te on my Niv, I'm doing 2 damage per card, which is generally enough to take everyone out, but if not, then once I demonstrate that I can do it endlessly, that's generally game. If not and they are a glutton for punishment, I'll take infinite turns by emptying my deck and then casting Beacon of Tomorrows or just pull it out of my deck with Planar Portal each turn. So many ways...
Went 1-1 last night. The game I lost came only after a Wheel of Fortune resolved and left me with 6 lands...
The one I won, was great! I Mindslavered a guy that had been building up a big Heart of Bogardan and then I Spelljacked another guys Cruel Ultimatuum and pulled back a Gilded Drake to steal another guy's Garza Zol... Sweet!
This deck has been rocking! Up over a 90% win ratio. Something like 21 wins out of 23 games now.
The extra turns combos and the easy way to pull out the Niv Mizzett wins are just incredible. Also helping so much more now that I put in some counters.
Still jacking my opponents after all these months with this deck!
I ended up winning 24 out of 28 games. Most were big, 5 or more player games. Then I took it apart after we started playing with PlaneCrash cards... heheh.
Now, we are starting a weekly game for points and packs and a series of month-long tournaments with the points winner getting the packs, so I put it back together. The ability to just win off two cards is sick. Since there are points for doing different things, I've modified the deck a bit. Put more artifact mana in, since LD is allowed. Took out most of the extra turn cards, since extra turns are minus one point each. Basically cleaned up the deck and tightened it up a lot. It won it's first two matches against Arcum and Nicol Bolas decks, so hopefully, it's ready to go again.
cool deck dude! I run a nivosity+artifact toolbox deck which reiterates inner fire infinitum. Which I can then use to cast banefire infinitum via reiterate again. I also jun the kiki-mite combo too. Redundancy is good, when its needed! you can search niv-mizzet/artifact lock to see mine. thinking about abusing capsize meself hehe
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'With the cards that are out there right now it is flavorly more common to know a spell that DESTROYS AN ENTIRE PLANE OF EXISTANCE than one that summons a snake that chills near lotus flowers...'
currently playing:
T2: Hawkward (neofinnity in standard???)
T1.5: Tezz-finity
hahahaha wow. I was wondering where Call to Mind was in place of Relearn- then I realized this thread was created about 14 months before Call to Mind was printed.
I dont think anyone has mentioned this (apologies if they have, I'm creating a Niv deck at the moment and am just browsing through quickly).
I would replace Dominate with Gather Specimens purely on CMC. The later will cost you 6 while the former will only get you a 3CMC creature for the same cost.
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I've agonized over each choice, maximizing the combo potential of each card. If you have a suggestion, I gladly welcome it, but will need to know which card it should replace and how it will contribute to the deck in a better overall manner. I'm not even going to say this is perfect, or even good, but it's got a 5-3 record in big, multi-player games, even when I'm being hated out in the second game. (It could be 6-3, but I took it easy one time, since I had just won 7 packs in the previous pack-ante game, heheh) EDIT - Now 7-4.
I play this deck for two reasons; first, Niv is my all-time favorite card. Second, it fits my style of play. I try to win without using the same combo every time, but it is good to know they are there if I need them.
I'm looking forward to your comments and suggestions...
General -1
Niv-Mizzet, the Firemind
Planeswalker -1
Tezzeret the Seeker
Creatures -7
Master Transmuter
Memnarch
Gilded Drake
Teferi, Mage of Zhalfir
Izzet Chronarch
Venser, Shaper Savant
Guile
Spells - recursion -3
Timetwister
Time Spiral
Relearn
Spells - time walk -4
Beacon of Tomorrows
Walk the Aeons
Time Stretch
Time Warp
Spells - instant effects -8
Turnabout
Capsize
Fork
Twincast
Reiterate
Wild Ricochet
Mystical Tutor
Trickbind
Spells - enchantments -9
Mirror Sheen
Mind over Matter
Charisma
Ophidian Eye
Curiousity
Quicksilver Dagger
Rhystic Study
Copy Enchantment
Spells - Counters -10
Spelljack
Desertion
Cryptic Command
Force of Will
Dismiss
Mana Drain
Spell Burst
Rewind
Counterspell
Hinder
Spells - Theft -7
Bribery
Treachery
Blatant Thievery
Acquire
Knowledge Exploitation
Confiscate
Dominate
Spells - artifacts -20
Nevinyrral's Disk
Crucible of Worlds
Mindslaver
Gilded Lotus
Lightning Greaves
Darksteel Forge
Mind's Eye
Planar Portal
Sol Ring
Darksteel Ingot
Skull of Orm
Veilstone Amulet
Forcefield
Neko-Te
Vedalken Orrery
Izzet Signet
Neurok Stealthsuit
Thousand-Year Elixer
Mirari
Sensei's Divining Top
Lands -31
Island x 8
Mountain x 4
Tolaria West
Steam Vents
Izzet Boilerworks
Sand Silos
Dwarven Hold
Vivid Creek
Vivid Crag
Volcanic Island
Tolarian Academy
Academy Ruins
Strip Mine
Wasteland
Thawing Glaciers
Reflecting Pool
Minamo, School at Water's Edge
Winding Canyons
Reliquary Tower
Maze of Ith
Vesuva
Cards that didn't make it...
Gifts Ungiven - too broken, about to be banned, just too much... for a casual game.
Arcanis the Omnipotent - Would love to add, but just can't fit it in. Any ideas which card to remove for it?
Dizzy Spell and Drift of Phantasms - Again, too much. Will get me the cards I need to win, but too much for a casual game.
Vesuvan Shapeshifter and Brine Elemental - Would love to fit this in. But again, no fun...
Draining Whelk - This card really needs to be in the deck, but no room.
Glen Elendra Archmage - Another that needs to be in this deck.
Copy Artifact - Another just miss.
Dream Fracture - Softens the blow. Sure, I counter your uber-card, so here's another... heheh
Evacuation - Garners too much hate... same with Inundate
Ancestral Vision - just takes too long unless you get it early.
Fanning the Flames - Definitely deserves a spot, but what to take out? Found it sitting in my hand unused in my tests.
Tradewind Rider - My second favorite card! Just not enough creatures to make it viable...
Timestop - Not quite a Time Walk, not so effective in a multi-player game.
Ways this deck has won:
Also to combo with the clique, you may want to run Boomerang, Venser, Shaper Savant (which you already have) or other bounce effects.
Which cards would I remove for them? Besides, as you said, Tunnel Vision is only good against one opponent. This is for big multi-player games, where you need to take them all out at once if possible, or else once you take one out, all laser sights focus on you...
Made some changes to the deck (after more agony!-heheh)
Trickbind is good, Stifle is better (sure Stifle doesn't have split second, but Stifle does more than Trickbind does, plus it costs less).
You really don't need Vedalken Orrery if you are also running Teferi, I suppose redundancy is a good thing, but too much of a good thing is too much.
Since you are in the colors, I would run the stealthsuit and disregard the Lightning Greaves alltogether, since the stealthsuit can be equiped at instant speed where as the Greaves cannot.
I would go with the over the Mirror Sheen since you can make the Mirari indestructible.
Other than these changes, I can't think of anything to change.
I mean, sure, having multiples of a given effect is a good idea. However the problem is finding the balance between too many multiples (sometimes 2 copies of a given effect is too many) and to few multiples.
You are, of course, correct, but I'm counting the 4 mana producing artifacts as part of my mana base. But you are right, I need more lands. So far, I have not had any mana issues with the deck. If I ever do start having mana issues, I'll add more, and if I do find cards that don't work optimally, they'll be replaced by lands. One thing though is that our play group has banned mass land destruction and we get a free mulligan, so I've yet to be bit by the manascrew with this deck.
Having my own Rhystic Study and being able to copy my opponent's Study or even Land Tax has been key. I think Steal Enchantment might also be good, but I run Copy Enchantment over that to prevent the hate that comes from taking someone's Study or Land Tax. When you copy a Rhystic, suddenly the game gets very interesting, since spells can now cost 2 extra mana. You'd be surprised how many people give up the cards just so they can cast their spells after waiting so long in a big game for their turn.
What more does Stifle do than Trickbind? Both counter target activated or triggered ability. Trickbind also stops it from being played again that turn along with the split second, so I think you got that backwards. But yeah, it does cost less, but cost is generally not an issue in EDH. I'd rather have the card that does more, even if it costs a bit more.
I think I need the Trickbind because it stops retarded things combo decks do, like mine...heheh. Being able to stop that effect, whatever it is, from occurring again that turn, I can usually have a chance when another deck goes off. I wouldn't mind adding it in with Trickbind, but what to take out...?
I am trying for 'balanced redundancy' here. With a bunch of singleton cards in a 100-card deck, and few search tools, I want to have multiple cards that produce similar effects to ensure that I get them when I need them. For example, I also have Winding Canyons to do somewhat the same thing. The reason for these three is to be able to play my Niv at the most opportune time. By 'balanced redundancy', I mean I want a deck that functions the way I want it to, but not so overwhelming that it will be kicked out/banned or so I will be hated out of games. That's why I don't run the transmute cards for my wincon or Gifts Ungiven. It's just too much.
Greaves give haste. Stealthsuit does not. Big difference. I've had them both in play before and being able to use both has saved my general from targeted destruction.
Again, redundancy is good. Using this to copy your own Time Stretch is incredible...
That means I'm getting close...
Well, it's focus that matters. There are certain things I want to be able to do with this deck. Being able to do them in different ways can throw my opponents off. I do understand what you mean. For example, I used to run a Fervor and Akroma's Memorial as redundant haste grantors and realized that between the Elixer and the Greaves, I had all the haste I needed.
Having both Mirari and Mirror Sheen is good because they do different things. Mirari is only good for my spells. Mirror Sheen is good for both my own and my opponent's spells aimed at my head.
Great comments, thanks!
EDIT: Niv Mizzet, the Fire-Mindmoil
That doesn't really help unless I'm going off with Mind over Matter. With 'Niviosity', all the cards are in my hand. That's why I have Time Spiral and Time Twister. I can cast Time Twister for 3 and continue until my deck gets low, then cast Time Spiral, which is removed from game, but returns the Time Twister to my deck, then cast Time Twister again and then use Relearn and/or Izzet Chronarch to get it back and do it again and again and again and... in perpetuity. With Neko-Te on my Niv, I'm doing 2 damage per card, which is generally enough to take everyone out, but if not, then once I demonstrate that I can do it endlessly, that's generally game. If not and they are a glutton for punishment, I'll take infinite turns by emptying my deck and then casting Beacon of Tomorrows or just pull it out of my deck with Planar Portal each turn. So many ways...
Went 1-1 last night. The game I lost came only after a Wheel of Fortune resolved and left me with 6 lands...
The one I won, was great! I Mindslavered a guy that had been building up a big Heart of Bogardan and then I Spelljacked another guys Cruel Ultimatuum and pulled back a Gilded Drake to steal another guy's Garza Zol... Sweet!
The extra turns combos and the easy way to pull out the Niv Mizzett wins are just incredible. Also helping so much more now that I put in some counters.
Still jacking my opponents after all these months with this deck!
Told you it didn't need more mana!
Now, we are starting a weekly game for points and packs and a series of month-long tournaments with the points winner getting the packs, so I put it back together. The ability to just win off two cards is sick. Since there are points for doing different things, I've modified the deck a bit. Put more artifact mana in, since LD is allowed. Took out most of the extra turn cards, since extra turns are minus one point each. Basically cleaned up the deck and tightened it up a lot. It won it's first two matches against Arcum and Nicol Bolas decks, so hopefully, it's ready to go again.
currently playing:
T2: Hawkward (neofinnity in standard???)
T1.5: Tezz-finity
and i didn't even do that on purpose...weird huh?
hahahaha wow. I was wondering where Call to Mind was in place of Relearn- then I realized this thread was created about 14 months before Call to Mind was printed.
:symu::symr: Melek WheelStorm
:symw::symg: Trostani Enchantress (updated 6/5)
:symg::symr::symu: Unexpected Results.dec
Thada Adel Stax WIP
I would replace Dominate with Gather Specimens purely on CMC. The later will cost you 6 while the former will only get you a 3CMC creature for the same cost.