Interesting choices...I never really considered the "on top of library" part to be a burden.
- Haunted Crossroads has been pretty good for me. It's in the same role as Volrath's Stronghold. Then again, you make a good point about putting things on top of my library instead of in my hand. As soon as I get a Cemetery, I'll try it.
- I've been playing Hag Hedge-Mage as a second psuedo-copy of Eternal Witness. The Regrowth effect is usually good enough that I don't mind it being on top my library.
- Nim Deathmantle just strikes me as incredibly expensive, but I'll still try it. If it sucks, I'll put a Survival in there.
- Vat for Renewal seems fine. I thought the Renewal would be good now that I have the Sun Titan, but it hasn't really been all that great.
Both Sword and Greaves are nice cards, but they don't really have much synergy with the themes of the deck. If this was just BGW good stuff.dec, maybe.
BLASPHEMY! Grave Pacts are the best part about this deck! I actually tried to cut white from the deck so that I could use Savra as my general and have MOAR GRAVE PACTZ!
Both Sword and Greaves are nice cards, but they don't really have much synergy with the themes of the deck. If this was just BGW good stuff.dec, maybe.
I don't think it needs to be goodstuff deck at all. They give Teneb and both Titans haste, which makes them awesome. Since i play Titans as the pseudo-generals #2 and #3 they have been really good for me. Most of the cards now either fit into Sun Titan category, reanimate category, ramp or all of the mentioned effects combined in some way. The only thing better than hasted Sun Titan is having Minion Reflector watch it happen and trigger, obviously.
Some other targets that could use haste: Galepowder Mage, Doomed Nekromancer, Stoneforger Mystic, Fauna Shaman. Plus Teneb with a Sword is a 3 turn clock.
BLASPHEMY! Grave Pacts are the best part about this deck! I actually tried to cut white from the deck so that I could use Savra as my general and have MOAR GRAVE PACTZ!
I know what your deck tries to do and i like the engine. It's just that Savra is underperforming for me and i am cutting off the sac outlets. I am keeping Butcher of Malakir for now, cause he is the best of the two cards (it dodges Gaddock Teeg i play and is better by himself than Savra. Regarding Savra, you can also play black prison Savra, which reminds me of Braids a bit. But it is no way near as fun as Teneb.
Either way, i just came from the store, where i steamrolled a Doran guy (i know i shouldn't, friendly colors and all). I Genesis Wave'd him for 33 (some laughs from the drafters' table occured). Then he, pissed and all, grabbed Vendilion Clique deck and tried to cut me a new one. He countered some stuff, applied some beats with general and Venser and Sundered our lands away. I grinded that one out, i had just too many threats coming back all the time, thanks to Lurking PredatorsGalepowder Mage, Gaddock Teeg, Emeria, the Sky Ruin, Gaea's Cradle, Eternal Witness, Fierce Empath and Buried Alive). In between, he countered a bunch of stuff, fired off Relic of Progenitus in response to first Emeria trigger, Stroked himself for 6 eot, then he slowly ran out of gas and withered away. Certainly not a fun general to play against, but anyway: Me = (that's all that counts, basically)
The only problems i had so far (If you don't count the outcry that Loam and Crucible are just not fair with awesome lands like Urborg/Coffers.) were the indestructible permanents like Shield of Kaldra, Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre and Spearbreaker Behemoth. So, is there any permanent-based answer to those, that costs 3 or less? That would be so awesome. Otherwise, i might as well put Archon of Justice back in..
The only problems i had so far (If you don't count the outcry that Loam and Crucible are just not fair with awesome lands like Urborg/Coffers.) were the indestructible permanents like Shield of Kaldra, Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre and Spearbreaker Behemoth. So, is there any permanent-based answer to those, that costs 3 or less? That would be so awesome. Otherwise, i might as well put Archon of Justice back in..
Fleshbag Marauder Recurring Marauders off a Sun Titan is just stupid.
heavy on the suntitan(which also works well with teeg) use of vengeance sword as well as greaves for haste, lots of come into play affects, and the 3 dodge sweepers, minion reflector, gale powder mage
Yeah, i saw your decklist posted on tappedout and tried some of the stuff and i liked the results. Sun Titan is just sick, i have nothing else to say:D
stinkweed imp ye he's nice but i try not to abuse him too much, i get hated plenty of times, so i try to be rational, one, maybe two dredges and i go from there. reya vs. geth - both are nice, idk, maybe reya is underperforming for me, but she's got a nice pair of and she's staying for now. I will also try Geth. Regarding infinite amounts of black mana- try Genesis Wave, it's my finisher of choice (i also considered Maga, traitor to mortals but idk, don't like it so much. animate dead/necromancy/dance of the dead all amazing with sun titan - yep, those cards were the turning point. They are so amazing, if only i could find more similar stuff. aura shards - great card, i play this and Oracle of Mul-daya wherever possible. sterling grove - good to find auras or Lurking predators, too skullclamp - its frowned upon here so i cut it (sadface) pawn of ulamog - i like him, even though him and Imp are probably the weakest on their own. bone shredder - i play that in legacy, too. 'Nuff said. hermit druid - hmm.. sounds bizzare enough to warrant some testing. aven mind censor - hmm.. i don't think i really need this, cause folks around here don't tutor too much.
Regarding your list, i feel it's pretty powerful, but i think the next few slots are flexible/debatable: Magus of the Tabernacle - I know this is good, but there are no swarm decks around here, so i replaced it with Woodfall Primus. Necrotic Ooze - It's good, but nowadays it's Fauna Shaman (ok, it goes better from there, if it sticks) at best and most of the times big Sakura-Tribe Elder. With Geth, it may become better, i guess.. Reassembling Skeleton - This card fits OCPunishers decklist better, with the Grave Pacts plan. In your deck, it's good with Attrition and Victimize, but i fail to see other uses (if it could be used with Ooze, it would be awesome, yeah..). Crystal Ball - I thought this card was better (yeah, i'm spoiled with Top, it's hard to get close to that card), but most of the time it just frustrates me. It's awesome with Lurking Predators, but most of the time Sylvan Library is just better. Moonlit Wake - I can't really see the point, is it there to gain infinite life? Otherwise, it's just not gaining absurd amounts of life to warrant it, imo. What about Sword of Light and Shadow, Spike Feeder, Kitchen Finks? Okay, none of those are really spectacular, i know, i'm just trying to sub Moonlit Wake..
Cards to consider: Sylvan Library - I think this card is awesome. Genesis Wave - This is the card i think you should play. It's really powerful and the only thing that holds it back is Teeg, but if you stick him long enough, you are winnig anyway. Helm of Possesion - Sometimes oponents' stuff is just better.. the drawback is it's not cooperating with Teeg, again. Oracle of Mul Daya - She is soo sweet and people refuse to kill her. Fine by me.. Phyrexian Reclamation - Maybe? Strands of Night is better, but it costs 4.. Riftsweeper - I can see this being good after GY hate.. maybe in conjunction with Galepowder Mage, Mimic Vat, Minion Reflector. Ancient Tomb - I like this, cause our group kinda banned Sol Ring&co and this is the only substitute i can find.
That's cool, I'm glad others are liking and using my ideas.
for now I like geth, cause he draws less hate, and is much easier to cast.. and he doesn't need to survive till your upkeep
I definitely suggest trying hermit druid... hes banned in legacy! his abiltiy is very strong if you run a small amount of basics .... also combos with necrotic ooze aven mind censor tutors and fetch lands & mana ramp such as cultivate etc are all pretty common around here, not to mention tutor generals, sisay, scion, arcum.
magus of the tabernacle.... yeah hes since been cut was originally in there due to the deck being able to make tons of mana and thus his ability is not a drawback to me necrotic ooze Im trying out honestly I have yet to get him into play... seems like a strong fun card in general
Reassembling Skeleton skullclamp! 3 mana to draw 2 cards crystal ball yeah sylvan is probably better, though crystal ball combos much better with top the sylvan library does as you can dig deeper.. I use my sylvan libraries currently in other decks... run either a top/sylvan/mirri's guile + crystal ball in each deck moonlit wake it out now too(fleshbag marauder in its place.. once I realized its basically a edict for each opponent, on the body of a 3cc creature... so broken with sun titan and minion reflector) genesis wave yeah Ive considered it at well.. and it may end up in the deck... currently have it in my ezuri & omnath decks... have yet to cast it and not be countered! Helm of Possesion its amazing in my rhys the redeemed token/enchantment deck.... things have to be fit in strongly to be above the sun titan range for my teneb Oracle of Mul Daya was originally in, but A I run it in 3-4 other decks and B its above sun titan range, while there is plenty of ramp I use which costs 3 or less. I guess you could say that solemn simulacrum has basically the same casting cost and fits a similar role as oracle.. minion reflecting the solemn is just so good Phyrexian Reclamation/Strands of Night have looked at them, not a big fan Riftsweeper on my list of sometimes play with it Ancient Tomb I guess it would be a decent sol ring replacement, as it is I have enough lands which tap for colorless
a few other cards which I sometimes use Dawnglare Invoker great for when you have tons of mana, and are starring down a huge untargetable unblockable general or something similar... just shuts down zur necroplasm seems like a fun ability, shuts down token decks & has dredge Nezumi Graverobber I had this played against me once.. was pretty brutal even if you dont flip him Planar Guide another anti wrath affect & kills tokens & kills auras & stops blue steal/bribery affects Sorceress Queen another maze type affect
and 4 of those 5 have good activated abilities for necrotic ooze
Whoa, lots of good posts over the weekend! I'll try to respond to as many as I can:
@ Savra and other Grave Pacts: I completely agree that Savra has been underwhelming, but the other two (Grave Pact and Butcher of Malakir) have been excellent. I'm actually thinking of cutting Savra from my list, but I would highly recommend keeping the other two in there.
@ Archon of Justice: It's a great removal spell, especially if you can sac it whenever you want to. I'd put it in almost any white deck.
@ World Queller: I think it's pretty bad. Anything that you need to untap with is generally too slow in this format where several people get the chance to untap and deal with your threat before it gets activated is usually too slow. Combine that with the fact that the opponent gets to pick what they sacrifice and you have something that is just not good enough.
@ Stinkweed Imp: I've never liked the Dredge mechanic in this format. Like Buried Alive, it just feels like an open invitation to get targeted with a Tormod's Crypt or something, which is this deck's biggest weakness. I would recommend Krovikan Horror if you want something to re-use with Survival. Same goes for Hermit Druid.
@ Reya: She's really expensive, and takes a long time to activate (kinda like World Queller).
@ Geth: Milling an opponent seems a lot safer than milling yourself, because it doesn't hurt us nearly as much to get T-Crypt'ed.
@ Necrotic Ooze: Probably depends on what other stuff you are running that it could copy. If you have enough stuff to make it worthwhile, it's probably fine, but if all you are getting is Fauna Shaman/Sakura-Tribe Elder, it's probably not worth it.
@Necrotic Ooze remember this works on creatures in all graveyards, great with geth either on the battlefield or in your yard
as for stinkweed, buried alive, hermit druid and such... well all I can say is we are playing a reanimator deck if you are afraid of yard hate... Id suggest playing a different deck.. Id imagine in most games yard hate will be targeted at the reanimator deck regardless
as for stinkweed, buried alive, hermit druid and such... well all I can say is we are playing a reanimator deck if you are afraid of yard hate... Id suggest playing a different deck.. Id imagine in most games yard hate will be targeted at the reanimator deck regardless
That's largely true, but at the same time I think it's important to control/limit the amount of damage that a Bojuka Bog can do. If you start loading up your yard with 20+ guys that you can start bringing back, you will probably get blown out of a lot of games very quickly.
If you start loading up your yard with 20+ guys that you can start bringing back, you will probably get blown out of a lot of games very quickly.
This. I use dredge with moderation. It's also true, that i don't run Skullclamp atm, i think i should try it again, with Reassembling Skeletons and stuff..
Regarding reanimator hate- it's not that bad if they don't hit Sun Titan No, really, i have been targetted many times and since i don't overload my grave, i can get back in the game in a pinch. And with Mimic Vat and Minion Reflector (and other, non-gy related CIP abusing machines), you don't even need to rely on GY so much..
I think i'm going to include Sorceress Queen. My playgroup consists of MonoG Stompy, Zur, Emrakul and Red Akroma, so i guess she could be pretty useful.
EDIT: Oh yeah, just realized that abilities still remain. Hmm, will try it out, anyway.
I think i'm going to include Sorceress Queen. My playgroup consists of MonoG Stompy, Zur, Emrakul and Red Akroma, so i guess she could be pretty useful.
EDIT: Oh yeah, just realized that abilities still remain. Hmm, will try it out, anyway.
@ Stinkweed Imp: I've never liked the Dredge mechanic in this format. Like Buried Alive, it just feels like an open invitation to get targeted with a Tormod's Crypt or something, which is this deck's biggest weakness. I would recommend Krovikan Horror if you want something to re-use with Survival. Same goes for Hermit Druid.
The difference between dredge and Buried Alive is that with Buried Alive you control exactly what goes in your graveyard. I play it in a couple graveyard based decks and I often do not tutor for 3 cards or I'll get something like Bloodghast, Krovikan Horror and Squee where I can quickly pull the cards out. It's a very powerful card, you just need to be careful about overextending your graveyard.
EDIT: Of the cards that sac creatures to draw cards Culling Dais is the only one I'd consider. It also has the nice upside of protecting you from mass discard.
Offtopic, but nonetheless: i just saw Bergman's The Seventh Seal and i must say: Antonius Block = Solemn Simulacrum!
-He is sad (existential questions about God, life, death),
-he is a "robot" (well, kinda, he is a crusader knight = wears armor; also being manipulated into attending the crusade wars seems feeble minded to me, so he has been manipulated, as robots can be)
-he fetches you a land when he hits play (he went abroad to conquer the Sacred land, albeit the Sacred land seem almost legendary, not basic)
-he draws a card, when he dies (when he comes home, he questions the existence of the God and dies in knowledge that God doesn't exist- although the movie states otherwise, kinda)
Ok, jokes aside, although it's a good movie, every Teneb player should see it (also this and that you won't regret):D
About some cards: Geth- he has been amazing, won me a couple of games. Also seems that players seem to be a bit reluctant to Relic all the GY's, after you Geth them a couple of times. Well, they should, anyway:cool: Sorceress Queen- meh, really not that strong as i hoped she was. Fleshbag Marauder- didn't see him throughout my games, but i know he is amazing. Necrotic Ooze- after me being Mind Twist'ed, he was Geth'ing stuff into play Spike Weaver- didn't really impress me all that much..
Spike Weaver is extremely strong for me. He basically says "attack someone else", because everyone knows if they attack you it'll just get prevented. He's also very easy to recur, so you can pretty easily soft lock the game with him. I'm never sad to have him.
OUT:
- Angelic Renewal: It just wasn't pulling its weight.
- Haunted Crossroads: I finally managed to acquire a couple Oversold Cemetery's.
- Juniper Order Ranger: Size really doesn't matter in this deck.
- Savra, Queen of the Golgari: She's better off as a general because of all the conditions that her triggered abilities require.
- Stonecloaker: Withered Wretch is just better at doing what it does.
- Hag Hedge-Mage: Like Savra, it was a little too conditional, and putting something on top instead of in-hand was rather awkward.
- 3 Signets: Replaced by three better artifact fixers.
- Riftstone Portal, 2 of each basic: Riftstone Portal never made it into the graveyard unless it was through random dredging or opponent's discard.
IN:
- Oversold Cemetery: Finally got one of these. Hopefully a better version of Haunted Crossroads.
- Avenger of Zendikar: I make a lot of land drops, and this guy makes a lot of sacrificial fodder.
- Knight of the Reliquary: Tutors for all the good lands, great with Loam + Crucible.
- Mimic Vat: Seems like the perfect card for this deck.
- Nim Deathmantle: Seems like another great fit for this deck.
- Phyrexian Arena: One life is a small price to pay for an extra card every turn.
- Darksteel Ingot, Mox Diamond, Coalition Relic: Each seems better than a Signet, and does not require a cost to activate. The Relic can be charged for more ramping, and the Mox works with the Knight, Loam, and Crucible.
- Emeria, the Sky Ruin: I've wanted to play this card for awhile now, and I finally have the land tutoring to do it.
- Reflecting Pool: Should be easy to make all three colors.
- Mistveil Plains: Can be fetched by Marsh Flats, etc. Hopefully I will have the required white permanents for this to work.
- Reliquary Tower: Not sure if this deck needs this card, but with the Knight, it seems simple enough to include it.
- Wooded Bastion, Fetid Heath, Twilight Mire: More fixing...hopefully these are better than basics.
OC, I think that you should reconsider on Teysa. If you love Reveillark and Karmic Guide as much as I do, then you have to add Teysa. She combos with them for a nigh unstoppable targeted board wipe (RFG, actually).
I feel like you could benefit from Phyrexian Altar, with your sac theme it seems like a no-brainer to me.
Nether Traitor is good with the two cards I suggested, making for an infinite mana deal, but you want stuff with comes into play or leaves play effects. He is always there waiting to reanimate himself for another sacrifice, though.
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"I will flay the skin from your flesh and the flesh from your bones and scrape your bones dry. And still you will not have suffered enough." -Greven il-Vec, to Gerrard
OC, I think that you should reconsider on Teysa. If you love Reveillark and Karmic Guide as much as I do, then you have to add Teysa. She combos with them for a nigh unstoppable targeted board wipe (RFG, actually).
Hmm...at first glance, she reminds me a lot of Savra...great abilities with rather awkward color conditions.
Nether Traitor is good with the two cards I suggested, making for an infinite mana deal, but you want stuff with comes into play or leaves play effects. He is always there waiting to reanimate himself for another sacrifice, though.
Yeah, I have Bloodghast in there for a similar role, except the 'ghast is free to return and the conditions for returning it are about the same. At this point, I don't think that I need more than one of these types of creatures.
OCDPunisher, just want to say that I just got into the EDH format and was able to get my hands on a Teneb as my first general. I was like...great, B/G/W, what the hell am I going to do with this other than recur once a turn from my graveyard maybe. I guess it helps to note that I started playing in Zendikar. Just wanted to say thank you for having an utterly amazing walk-through for your deck and really laying it out there for us new guys.
Pretty amazing deck, I'll be going to proxy the majority of this now. Damn can't wait till paycheck.
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~Standard~
RDW
:symb::symg::symw: Harvester Pod :symw::symg::symb:
~EDH/Commander~
:symb::symg::symw: Teneb, the Harvester :symw::symg::symb:
:symw::symb::symr: Kaalia of the Vast :symr::symb::symw:
:symw::symb: Vish Kal, Blood Arbiter :symb::symw:
:symg::symw::symu: Rafiq of the Many :symu::symw::symg:
:symw::symu: Sygg, River Guide :symu::symw:
Welcome aboard! I can assure you, you're going to like EDH a lot. Teneb is amazing. His ability seems average at first (ok, maybe it is), but sometimes its enough to recur something ONCE and turn the tide (random Terastradons..).
The best thing about B/G/W is, that it pretty much covers everything you really need. Black is for tutors, card draw and recurrsion, green ramps and provides beats, while white is good at removing stuff. What else do you need, really?
Since this color combination has been the basis for the Rock decks in constructed variants for a while now, you can pretty much play everything that you wanted to play there, but couldn't.
It has good matchups across the board excluding combo (which is not really welcome in EDH enviroments, as far as i can tell) and is highly customizable midrange deck. And EDH is all about midrange (for me, at least).
Also, what do you guys think about Tajuru Preserver? Worth a slot? Too narrow? I get spaghetti thrown at me regularly and with this on the board it's manageable.
@Wolfhide: Glad you like it. Teneb is hella fun and will be staying in my EDH box for a good long time. Just try to spell my name right next time.
@zalachan: I actually haven't had a chance to play any games since I put in the Knight. I can't make EDH night tonight, and next week is the holiday, so the store is closed. It did just occur to me that I only have about 10 total Plains in the deck (including duals and Mistveil Plains), but I really don't see myself using the Knight more than once or twice in a game.
Have you considered spawning pit. I run it in my rhys deck and its easily one of the more effective cards in it. A free sac outlet that creates extra bodies is definitely something worth having. Other good options include knight-captain of eos( larkable reusable fog effects or tokens if you need them), doomed necromancer (allows you to lark or sun titan for any creature) and maybe even moriok replica (titanable larkable sign in blood).
- Haunted Crossroads has been pretty good for me. It's in the same role as Volrath's Stronghold. Then again, you make a good point about putting things on top of my library instead of in my hand. As soon as I get a Cemetery, I'll try it.
- I've been playing Hag Hedge-Mage as a second psuedo-copy of Eternal Witness. The Regrowth effect is usually good enough that I don't mind it being on top my library.
- Nim Deathmantle just strikes me as incredibly expensive, but I'll still try it. If it sucks, I'll put a Survival in there.
- Vat for Renewal seems fine. I thought the Renewal would be good now that I have the Sun Titan, but it hasn't really been all that great.
Yeva (88/92 foils)
Raff
Scarab
Rakdos
Wort ($50 budget, 94/97 foils)
Trostani
I wouldn't cut Angelic Renewal. I would rather add Necromancy, Dance of the Dead and Animate Dead, they also play nice with him. Also Saffi Eriksdotter and Doomed Necromancer- it's all the Sun Titan package i like the most.
I wouldn't really play Nim Deathmantle, but am liking Sword of Vengeance/Lightning Greaves so far. It's good with Teneb and Titans, and also can be Sun Titan-ed into play.
You can also try to trim out the Grave Pact effects and replace them with Oblivion Stone and Pernicious Deed, maybe Attrition (Sun Titan, again:D).
Yeah, if I ever get a Primeval Titan, I'd probably put Emeria back in here.
Doomed Necromancer is not a bad idea. I thought about trying him awhile back, but I never found a copy to test out.
Both Sword and Greaves are nice cards, but they don't really have much synergy with the themes of the deck. If this was just BGW good stuff.dec, maybe.
BLASPHEMY! Grave Pacts are the best part about this deck! I actually tried to cut white from the deck so that I could use Savra as my general and have MOAR GRAVE PACTZ!
Yeva (88/92 foils)
Raff
Scarab
Rakdos
Wort ($50 budget, 94/97 foils)
Trostani
Some other targets that could use haste: Galepowder Mage, Doomed Nekromancer, Stoneforger Mystic, Fauna Shaman. Plus Teneb with a Sword is a 3 turn clock.
I know what your deck tries to do and i like the engine. It's just that Savra is underperforming for me and i am cutting off the sac outlets. I am keeping Butcher of Malakir for now, cause he is the best of the two cards (it dodges Gaddock Teeg i play and is better by himself than Savra. Regarding Savra, you can also play black prison Savra, which reminds me of Braids a bit. But it is no way near as fun as Teneb.
Either way, i just came from the store, where i steamrolled a Doran guy (i know i shouldn't, friendly colors and all). I Genesis Wave'd him for 33 (some laughs from the drafters' table occured). Then he, pissed and all, grabbed Vendilion Clique deck and tried to cut me a new one. He countered some stuff, applied some beats with general and Venser and Sundered our lands away. I grinded that one out, i had just too many threats coming back all the time, thanks to Lurking Predators Galepowder Mage, Gaddock Teeg, Emeria, the Sky Ruin, Gaea's Cradle, Eternal Witness, Fierce Empath and Buried Alive). In between, he countered a bunch of stuff, fired off Relic of Progenitus in response to first Emeria trigger, Stroked himself for 6 eot, then he slowly ran out of gas and withered away. Certainly not a fun general to play against, but anyway: Me = (that's all that counts, basically)
Considering the stuff i played, i am definitely going to keep the curve as it is:
1-3 mana - standard utility guys, reanimator auras, Oblivion Stone and Pernicious Deed, Gaddock Teeg. Also "dodge sweepers cards" (Ghostway, Cauldron Haze, Second Sunrise- those are all you ever wanted Cauldron of Souls for, only they do it at instant speed, after sweeper/eldrazi)
4-6 mana - Oracle of Mul Daya, big guys (tutorable with Fierce Empath also), only 3 cards "above" Teeg (Genesis Wave, Lurking Predators, Minion Reflector)
6+ mana - really big guys (Terastadon, Reya Dawnbringer, Woodfall Primus).
The only problems i had so far (If you don't count the outcry that Loam and Crucible are just not fair with awesome lands like Urborg/Coffers.) were the indestructible permanents like Shield of Kaldra, Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre and Spearbreaker Behemoth. So, is there any permanent-based answer to those, that costs 3 or less? That would be so awesome. Otherwise, i might as well put Archon of Justice back in..
Fleshbag Marauder Recurring Marauders off a Sun Titan is just stupid.
World Queller isn't bad, either.
Erebos B | Ghost Council WB | Grimgrin UB | Jhoira UR
Jor Kadeen RW | Melek UR | Mimeoplasm GUB | Rasputin WU
Savra BG | Sisay GW | Teneb BGW | Thada Adel U | Wort BR
I draft and play EDH. If a Standard player can't understand who a card is for, it's probably for me.
I also write things about good films.
your deck sounds very similar to mine
heavy on the suntitan(which also works well with teeg) use of vengeance sword as well as greaves for haste, lots of come into play affects, and the 3 dodge sweepers, minion reflector, gale powder mage
what are your thoughts on the
stinkweed imp hes my squee, when I have survial or fauna shaman out, dredging for 5 is great
reya.. I used her for a bit but decided to try out geth instead recently since with coffers/urborg I got tons of black mana to spare
animate dead/necromancy/dance of the dead all amazing with sun titan
aura shards
sterling grove protects my survival of the fittest, or goes and finds it
skullclamp, insane as ever(my favorite is to combo with necrotic sliver)
pawn of ulamog great way to generate some mana early on, and come out a head from wraths
bone shredder unlike shriekmaw.. its suntitanable & the echo is a bonus!
hermit druid. I tried him out recently... after 2 activations I dumped 3/4s of my library in my graveyard(I run 8 basics).... game was won shortly afterwords
aven mind censor
Yeah, i saw your decklist posted on tappedout and tried some of the stuff and i liked the results. Sun Titan is just sick, i have nothing else to say:D
Regarding your list, i feel it's pretty powerful, but i think the next few slots are flexible/debatable:
Magus of the Tabernacle - I know this is good, but there are no swarm decks around here, so i replaced it with Woodfall Primus.
Necrotic Ooze - It's good, but nowadays it's Fauna Shaman (ok, it goes better from there, if it sticks) at best and most of the times big Sakura-Tribe Elder. With Geth, it may become better, i guess..
Reassembling Skeleton - This card fits OCPunishers decklist better, with the Grave Pacts plan. In your deck, it's good with Attrition and Victimize, but i fail to see other uses (if it could be used with Ooze, it would be awesome, yeah..).
Crystal Ball - I thought this card was better (yeah, i'm spoiled with Top, it's hard to get close to that card), but most of the time it just frustrates me. It's awesome with Lurking Predators, but most of the time Sylvan Library is just better.
Moonlit Wake - I can't really see the point, is it there to gain infinite life? Otherwise, it's just not gaining absurd amounts of life to warrant it, imo. What about Sword of Light and Shadow, Spike Feeder, Kitchen Finks? Okay, none of those are really spectacular, i know, i'm just trying to sub Moonlit Wake..
Cards to consider:
Sylvan Library - I think this card is awesome.
Genesis Wave - This is the card i think you should play. It's really powerful and the only thing that holds it back is Teeg, but if you stick him long enough, you are winnig anyway.
Helm of Possesion - Sometimes oponents' stuff is just better.. the drawback is it's not cooperating with Teeg, again.
Oracle of Mul Daya - She is soo sweet and people refuse to kill her. Fine by me..
Phyrexian Reclamation - Maybe? Strands of Night is better, but it costs 4..
Riftsweeper - I can see this being good after GY hate.. maybe in conjunction with Galepowder Mage, Mimic Vat, Minion Reflector.
Ancient Tomb - I like this, cause our group kinda banned Sol Ring&co and this is the only substitute i can find.
for now I like geth, cause he draws less hate, and is much easier to cast.. and he doesn't need to survive till your upkeep
I definitely suggest trying hermit druid... hes banned in legacy! his abiltiy is very strong if you run a small amount of basics .... also combos with necrotic ooze
aven mind censor tutors and fetch lands & mana ramp such as cultivate etc are all pretty common around here, not to mention tutor generals, sisay, scion, arcum.
magus of the tabernacle.... yeah hes since been cut was originally in there due to the deck being able to make tons of mana and thus his ability is not a drawback to me
necrotic ooze Im trying out honestly I have yet to get him into play... seems like a strong fun card in general
Reassembling Skeleton skullclamp! 3 mana to draw 2 cards
crystal ball yeah sylvan is probably better, though crystal ball combos much better with top the sylvan library does as you can dig deeper.. I use my sylvan libraries currently in other decks... run either a top/sylvan/mirri's guile + crystal ball in each deck
moonlit wake it out now too(fleshbag marauder in its place.. once I realized its basically a edict for each opponent, on the body of a 3cc creature... so broken with sun titan and minion reflector)
genesis wave yeah Ive considered it at well.. and it may end up in the deck... currently have it in my ezuri & omnath decks... have yet to cast it and not be countered!
Helm of Possesion its amazing in my rhys the redeemed token/enchantment deck.... things have to be fit in strongly to be above the sun titan range for my teneb
Oracle of Mul Daya was originally in, but A I run it in 3-4 other decks and B its above sun titan range, while there is plenty of ramp I use which costs 3 or less. I guess you could say that solemn simulacrum has basically the same casting cost and fits a similar role as oracle.. minion reflecting the solemn is just so good
Phyrexian Reclamation/Strands of Night have looked at them, not a big fan
Riftsweeper on my list of sometimes play with it
Ancient Tomb I guess it would be a decent sol ring replacement, as it is I have enough lands which tap for colorless
a few other cards which I sometimes use
Dawnglare Invoker great for when you have tons of mana, and are starring down a huge untargetable unblockable general or something similar... just shuts down zur
necroplasm seems like a fun ability, shuts down token decks & has dredge
Nezumi Graverobber I had this played against me once.. was pretty brutal even if you dont flip him
Planar Guide another anti wrath affect & kills tokens & kills auras & stops blue steal/bribery affects
Sorceress Queen another maze type affect
and 4 of those 5 have good activated abilities for necrotic ooze
@ Savra and other Grave Pacts: I completely agree that Savra has been underwhelming, but the other two (Grave Pact and Butcher of Malakir) have been excellent. I'm actually thinking of cutting Savra from my list, but I would highly recommend keeping the other two in there.
@ Archon of Justice: It's a great removal spell, especially if you can sac it whenever you want to. I'd put it in almost any white deck.
@ World Queller: I think it's pretty bad. Anything that you need to untap with is generally too slow in this format where several people get the chance to untap and deal with your threat before it gets activated is usually too slow. Combine that with the fact that the opponent gets to pick what they sacrifice and you have something that is just not good enough.
@ Stinkweed Imp: I've never liked the Dredge mechanic in this format. Like Buried Alive, it just feels like an open invitation to get targeted with a Tormod's Crypt or something, which is this deck's biggest weakness. I would recommend Krovikan Horror if you want something to re-use with Survival. Same goes for Hermit Druid.
@ Reya: She's really expensive, and takes a long time to activate (kinda like World Queller).
@ Aura Shards, Sterling Grove, Skullclamp: Amazing cards, always performs well, no doubt about it.
@ Geth: Milling an opponent seems a lot safer than milling yourself, because it doesn't hurt us nearly as much to get T-Crypt'ed.
@ Necrotic Ooze: Probably depends on what other stuff you are running that it could copy. If you have enough stuff to make it worthwhile, it's probably fine, but if all you are getting is Fauna Shaman/Sakura-Tribe Elder, it's probably not worth it.
@ Moonlit Wake: Seems unnecessary.
@ Genesis Wave: I'd really like to try this card...it sounds like a lot of fun to play for 20+ mana.
@ Phyrexian Reclamation/Strands of Night: Strands is slightly better unless there's a Teeg in the way, but both are pretty good.
I'll be making some changes to my list in the OP later today...
Yeva (88/92 foils)
Raff
Scarab
Rakdos
Wort ($50 budget, 94/97 foils)
Trostani
as for stinkweed, buried alive, hermit druid and such... well all I can say is we are playing a reanimator deck if you are afraid of yard hate... Id suggest playing a different deck.. Id imagine in most games yard hate will be targeted at the reanimator deck regardless
That's largely true, but at the same time I think it's important to control/limit the amount of damage that a Bojuka Bog can do. If you start loading up your yard with 20+ guys that you can start bringing back, you will probably get blown out of a lot of games very quickly.
Yeva (88/92 foils)
Raff
Scarab
Rakdos
Wort ($50 budget, 94/97 foils)
Trostani
This. I use dredge with moderation. It's also true, that i don't run Skullclamp atm, i think i should try it again, with Reassembling Skeletons and stuff..
Regarding reanimator hate- it's not that bad if they don't hit Sun Titan No, really, i have been targetted many times and since i don't overload my grave, i can get back in the game in a pinch. And with Mimic Vat and Minion Reflector (and other, non-gy related CIP abusing machines), you don't even need to rely on GY so much..
Yeva (88/92 foils)
Raff
Scarab
Rakdos
Wort ($50 budget, 94/97 foils)
Trostani
EDIT: Oh yeah, just realized that abilities still remain. Hmm, will try it out, anyway.
Yeah, that isn't really the best solution against those guys. You'd almost be better off with something like Wing Shards, Dispense Justice, or Helm of Possession.
Has anyone tried playing cards that let you sacrifice guys to draw cards? I'm thinking about something like Carnage Altar, Culling Dais, Infernal Tribute, Phyrexian Vault, etc?
Yeva (88/92 foils)
Raff
Scarab
Rakdos
Wort ($50 budget, 94/97 foils)
Trostani
The difference between dredge and Buried Alive is that with Buried Alive you control exactly what goes in your graveyard. I play it in a couple graveyard based decks and I often do not tutor for 3 cards or I'll get something like Bloodghast, Krovikan Horror and Squee where I can quickly pull the cards out. It's a very powerful card, you just need to be careful about overextending your graveyard.
EDIT: Of the cards that sac creatures to draw cards Culling Dais is the only one I'd consider. It also has the nice upside of protecting you from mass discard.
Antonius Block = Solemn Simulacrum!
-He is sad (existential questions about God, life, death),
-he is a "robot" (well, kinda, he is a crusader knight = wears armor; also being manipulated into attending the crusade wars seems feeble minded to me, so he has been manipulated, as robots can be)
-he fetches you a land when he hits play (he went abroad to conquer the Sacred land, albeit the Sacred land seem almost legendary, not basic)
-he draws a card, when he dies (when he comes home, he questions the existence of the God and dies in knowledge that God doesn't exist- although the movie states otherwise, kinda)
Ok, jokes aside, although it's a good movie, every Teneb player should see it (also this and that you won't regret):D
About some cards:
Geth- he has been amazing, won me a couple of games. Also seems that players seem to be a bit reluctant to Relic all the GY's, after you Geth them a couple of times. Well, they should, anyway:cool:
Sorceress Queen- meh, really not that strong as i hoped she was.
Fleshbag Marauder- didn't see him throughout my games, but i know he is amazing.
Necrotic Ooze- after me being Mind Twist'ed, he was Geth'ing stuff into play
Spike Weaver- didn't really impress me all that much..
OUT:
- Angelic Renewal: It just wasn't pulling its weight.
- Haunted Crossroads: I finally managed to acquire a couple Oversold Cemetery's.
- Juniper Order Ranger: Size really doesn't matter in this deck.
- Savra, Queen of the Golgari: She's better off as a general because of all the conditions that her triggered abilities require.
- Stonecloaker: Withered Wretch is just better at doing what it does.
- Hag Hedge-Mage: Like Savra, it was a little too conditional, and putting something on top instead of in-hand was rather awkward.
- 3 Signets: Replaced by three better artifact fixers.
- Riftstone Portal, 2 of each basic: Riftstone Portal never made it into the graveyard unless it was through random dredging or opponent's discard.
IN:
- Oversold Cemetery: Finally got one of these. Hopefully a better version of Haunted Crossroads.
- Avenger of Zendikar: I make a lot of land drops, and this guy makes a lot of sacrificial fodder.
- Knight of the Reliquary: Tutors for all the good lands, great with Loam + Crucible.
- Mimic Vat: Seems like the perfect card for this deck.
- Nim Deathmantle: Seems like another great fit for this deck.
- Phyrexian Arena: One life is a small price to pay for an extra card every turn.
- Darksteel Ingot, Mox Diamond, Coalition Relic: Each seems better than a Signet, and does not require a cost to activate. The Relic can be charged for more ramping, and the Mox works with the Knight, Loam, and Crucible.
- Emeria, the Sky Ruin: I've wanted to play this card for awhile now, and I finally have the land tutoring to do it.
- Reflecting Pool: Should be easy to make all three colors.
- Mistveil Plains: Can be fetched by Marsh Flats, etc. Hopefully I will have the required white permanents for this to work.
- Reliquary Tower: Not sure if this deck needs this card, but with the Knight, it seems simple enough to include it.
- Wooded Bastion, Fetid Heath, Twilight Mire: More fixing...hopefully these are better than basics.
I'll update the OP later. Thoughts?
Yeva (88/92 foils)
Raff
Scarab
Rakdos
Wort ($50 budget, 94/97 foils)
Trostani
I feel like you could benefit from Phyrexian Altar, with your sac theme it seems like a no-brainer to me.
Nether Traitor is good with the two cards I suggested, making for an infinite mana deal, but you want stuff with comes into play or leaves play effects. He is always there waiting to reanimate himself for another sacrifice, though.
EDH
GUBVorosh, the HunterGUB
BRGKarrthus, Tyrant of JundBRG
GMolimo, Maro-SorcererG
UThada Adel, AcquisitorU list soon
BEndrek Sahr, Master BreederB
Hmm...at first glance, she reminds me a lot of Savra...great abilities with rather awkward color conditions.
Had it in there for awhile, took it out because I didn't really need the extra mana and there were better sacrifice outlets.
Yeah, I have Bloodghast in there for a similar role, except the 'ghast is free to return and the conditions for returning it are about the same. At this point, I don't think that I need more than one of these types of creatures.
Yeva (88/92 foils)
Raff
Scarab
Rakdos
Wort ($50 budget, 94/97 foils)
Trostani
Pretty amazing deck, I'll be going to proxy the majority of this now. Damn can't wait till paycheck.
RDW
:symb::symg::symw: Harvester Pod :symw::symg::symb:
~EDH/Commander~
:symb::symg::symw: Teneb, the Harvester :symw::symg::symb:
:symg::symw::symu: Rafiq of the Many :symu::symw::symg:
:symw::symu: Sygg, River Guide :symu::symw:
Teneb is amazing. His ability seems average at first (ok, maybe it is), but sometimes its enough to recur something ONCE and turn the tide (random Terastradons..).
The best thing about B/G/W is, that it pretty much covers everything you really need. Black is for tutors, card draw and recurrsion, green ramps and provides beats, while white is good at removing stuff. What else do you need, really?
Since this color combination has been the basis for the Rock decks in constructed variants for a while now, you can pretty much play everything that you wanted to play there, but couldn't.
It has good matchups across the board excluding combo (which is not really welcome in EDH enviroments, as far as i can tell) and is highly customizable midrange deck. And EDH is all about midrange (for me, at least).
@OCPunisher- how has Knight of the Reliquary been doing? I wouldn't like to turn off my Emeria, the Sky Ruin (just got a chinese one!), but also wouldn't like to overload on Plains or depend too much on Crucible/Loam.
Also, what do you guys think about Tajuru Preserver? Worth a slot? Too narrow? I get spaghetti thrown at me regularly and with this on the board it's manageable.
@zalachan: I actually haven't had a chance to play any games since I put in the Knight. I can't make EDH night tonight, and next week is the holiday, so the store is closed. It did just occur to me that I only have about 10 total Plains in the deck (including duals and Mistveil Plains), but I really don't see myself using the Knight more than once or twice in a game.
Yeva (88/92 foils)
Raff
Scarab
Rakdos
Wort ($50 budget, 94/97 foils)
Trostani