I just wanted to drop in and say thanks for all the work you've done in developing this decklist and keeping it updated here.
I've seen Azusa lists floating around here and there, and I had always had something of an interest, but after reading through this thread, I think that Azusa is going to be the next general I build a deck for. It just seems so good, and seems like it could be so fun!
EDIT: Can you consistently stick your Eldrazi long enough for them to seal the deal in multiplayer environments? And are there any other Eldrazi fatties even worth considering running since you can afford to cast them?
Though I'm not usually a fan ofRecycle and having tons of land in my list for my own Azusa deck, your deck seems to having less threats.
Your threats sees to be a one time big time creatures which truly be countered (Rampaging Baloths and Avenger of Zendikar because of your land presence.
Quote
"I have tailored my particular list to focus heavily on denying my opponents mana, which is especially effective in a build such as this because you can deny opponents mana"
Your list also dont have the DENYING portion. I dont see any denying part there. The two cards that only deny mana there is Terastodon, Vorinclex and Sundering Titan.
My suggestion for this deck is too add more threats and FLEXIBILITY. Like heavy creatures that do something like Kamahl, Woodfall Primus.
Maybe adding the Survival of the Fittest and Genesis to get those creatures into your hand and adds depth to your playstyle.
Though I'm not usually a fan ofRecycle and having tons of land in my list for my own Azusa deck, your deck seems to having less threats.
Your threats sees to be a one time big time creatures which truly be countered (Rampaging Baloths and Avenger of Zendikar because of your land presence.
Quote
"I have tailored my particular list to focus heavily on denying my opponents mana, which is especially effective in a build such as this because you can deny opponents mana"
Your list also dont have the DENYING portion. I dont see any denying part there. The two cards that only deny mana there is Terastodon, Vorinclex and Sundering Titan.
My suggestion for this deck is too add more threats and FLEXIBILITY. Like heavy creatures that do something like Kamahl, Woodfall Primus.
Maybe adding the Survival of the Fittest and Genesis to get those creatures into your hand and adds depth to your playstyle.
You say add more threats but you don't mention the [CARD]Eye of Ugin
[/CARD] and Butcher or Ulamog that can be played over and over that can just win games all on there own.
You say add more threats but you don't mention the [CARD]Eye of Ugin
[/CARD] and Butcher or Ulamog that can be played over and over that can just win games all on there own.
Haha Im not a fan of a land based combo. My meta in our playgroup is LD based thats why I dont use it. And Im running a 40 land Azusa deck thats why my land list is pretty tight.
What's the reasoning behind Tabernacle? How good has it been for you? I have one sitting in a binder and Azusa sleeved up, so was wondering if you comment on that a bit.
on a side note i have been solitaring this deck on cockatrice and i have noticed that i tend to run out of gas quite often.. it seems like the deck might be a bit too shy on card advantage or ways to get your big threats into your hand / onto the field reliably.
First, thank you for sharing your deck list with us.
I think this is the list that i found a while back and built - I really love it, and I'm very much an Esper style player; please take that as a compliment to your deck.
Have you considered It That Betrays as another creature to ramp into? Its quite powerful
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Awesome decklist; I'm a huge fan of mono-green ramp in EDH, and run a Kamahl build with a lot of similarities.
If you're interested in mana denial for your opponents Mishra's Helix + Seedborn Muse is very hard to beat, and it never hurts to have another reason to include / abuse Seedborn Muse who's also great with the amount of utility in your manabase.
In my opinion, especially in multiplayer, Burgeoning is strictly better than Exploration, if you aren't running both (and you could argue that neither are needed with Azusa at the helm)
Halls of Gemstone is an awesome hoser if counterspells are a big problem in your meta, in addition to completely shutting down some decks
Sylvan Safekeeper is also a card to consider; you'll usually have lands you can afford to pitch to counter removal, that is if your opponents even cast their creature removal while he's on the table. I've also found that safekeeper is generally better than Lightning Greaves in this kind of deck as you can afford to pitch lands easily, haste isn't a huge benefit to most of your deck, opponents can't slip removal in before you equip, and it can protect multiple creatures if needed.
I'd also recommend Oblivion Stone over All is Dust (or include both). In multiplayer situations the threat of a board wipe can often be as beneficial as the wipe itself, it destroys artifacts, and if you have the time you can use it to exclude your permanents from the wrath effect (especially effective with Seedborn Muse)
Desert Twister and Spine of Ish Sah are worth a look as well if you're interested in adding flexible removal, which can be hard to come by in green.
Krosan Grip, in addition to being the premier green artifact/enchantment killer/ top killer, has a very interesting interaction with countermagic that i recently discovered. Cast any spell you'd like to protect (or multiple spells if instant) and while you hold priority cast Grip or any spell with split second to make your spells functionally un-counterable.
Krosan Grip, in addition to being the premier green artifact/enchantment killer/ top killer, has a very interesting interaction with countermagic that i recently discovered. Cast any spell you'd like to protect (or multiple spells if instant) and while you hold priority cast Grip or any spell with split second to make your spells functionally un-counterable.
I don't think that's correct - say I cast Avenger of Zendikar and want to protect it. If I maintain priority and cast Krosan Grip in response to the Avenger, this only locks players out while Grip is still on the stack. Once Grip resolves, Avenger is still on the stack, and players are free to counter the Avenger again.
Anyways, to the deck, Life from the Loam still seems far too powerful to pass up. The interaction with fetchlands, Wasteland variants, and cycling lands is powerful enough on its own, but not only that, the recursion it provides opens up the door for abuse with cards like Buried Ruin and Haunted Fengraf. As you said yourself, the deck folds hard to counter magic. Recurring those threats is a great way to fight back. It's going to take some tinkering with the current decklist to make everything perfect, but I think the addition of Loam and a supporting cast helps takes the deck from 'just ramp' into something more versatile and ultimately more powerful.
It's been a very long time since I've put input into this thread, and I have to say that I'm glad that people still appreciate my build. I've mostly fallen out of EDH compared to how I used to play back 2 years ago when I first built this deck. The play I do see is generally relegated to SCG and GP side events where I'm something like 14-3 in FFA games using the Azami deck that's in my signature.
Thanks to everyone for all the kind words.
Anyways, here are some of the recent changes I've made to the deck.
The first thing you should notice is that I haven't replaced Prime Titan and Sundering Titan yet, and that's on purpose. I don't plan on adjusting for the most recent bannings and that's because I stopped following the official ban list after I came to the conclusion that I believe the RC's current philosophy for banning cards is arbitrary and unhealthy for the development of the format. It's alright if you don't agree, but this is what I play in paper with my group at school where the meta is hyper competitive and we just follow the current list minus what we deem are mistakes and banning cards we think deserve to be banned like Ad Nauseum. Losing Sundering Titan wasn't a terrible loss, but losing Prime Titan is back breaking for this deck. So much so that the build here may need major retooling as many of the cards in the decks primary purpose is to grab him (GSZ and NO) and the CA engine that is lost in him means the deck will more frequently run out of gas which was already an issue. If you were to replace these so you can play in metas where these are banned, as a quick fix I would probably recommend putting in any combination of Yavimaya Elder, Cloudstone Curio, and/or Scapeshift, but its really up to you.
For those looking to expand further, another line of development I was toying around with as a replacement for the two titans is adding in Oblivion stone and buried ruin along with a few other artifacts... the idea being that wiping the board clean and leaving up a surplus of mana and utility lands is very profitable for us.
The only real new tech I can immediately think of Azusa getting is Titania and Ugin. Then again, its been like 2 years since the big rules update that got me to stop playing her.
So, I'll be completely honest, though I've been considering rebooting this deck for a while, the printing of The Great Aurora is what actually inspired me to get up and do it. The old list was showing its age with a lot of banned cards and other obsolete interactions, and now that I had a chance to look over the whole thing with an unbiased eye, the cuts were as automatic as the newly printed powerhouse inclusions were. There are a lot of changes that were made, and I will not go over all of them here so if you are curious take a look at the OP which has been updated with them all. Overall though, I can say the list feels a lot cleaner than it used to which is the biggest thing that people should take note of. No more clunk like Seer's Sundial, Duplicant, etc... clogging up your draws. Smoother and more reliable CA, along with changes like:
- Increased 1cc ramp to increase the reliability of strong openenrs
- Increased density of bomb Instants/Sorceries, which in turn warrants the inclusion of the powerhouse Boseiju, Who Shelters All
- Increased utility of land suite, especially in its mana denial
And so I've found that even though this current deck is down a bunch of banned cards that were core to the old list, it runs even better than it did before which is nice. There are still a bunch of things to be tested and if anyone has any questions about their own lists and would like them answered I would love to discuss them with everyone on here. So I'll just end on some of the topics I have been considering:
- NO/GSZ are vestigial slots from the previous iterations of this deck which had Primeval Titan. I still have to test these slots further to see how worth it they are with the current suite of creatures.
- The deck should be looking to include Primal Surge as that its exactly the type of game winning bomb we are looking to pump out, but I'm not sure how to do that really when so many of our essentials are non permanents. Will return to this
- Is 54 the perfect count for lands? I'm not talking about 40 land builds, but am mostly referring to if this deck should be eaking towards a higher or lower count of 53/55 or beyond? Whats the optimal number to ensure making as many land drops as possible while not diluting the deck with too many irrelevant draws and leaving a higher density of power? 54 was the number I settled on way back when I first built this deck, but it is by no means a sacred cow.
I'm kind of surprised at the absence of Craterhoof. I can only vaguely recall the list you had up before your overhaul, but at first glance I feel like this version is weaker. The upper end of your high cmc cards isn't reachable within the early game; I would recommend cutting a few and including more cards to help establish your board faster
The Not Included section and the reasonings would be interesting to read as well.
Thanks!
I've seen Azusa lists floating around here and there, and I had always had something of an interest, but after reading through this thread, I think that Azusa is going to be the next general I build a deck for. It just seems so good, and seems like it could be so fun!
EDIT: Can you consistently stick your Eldrazi long enough for them to seal the deal in multiplayer environments? And are there any other Eldrazi fatties even worth considering running since you can afford to cast them?
R.I.P. Sundering Titan (6/20/12) and Braids, Cabal Minion (9/12/14)
Your threats sees to be a one time big time creatures which truly be countered (Rampaging Baloths and Avenger of Zendikar because of your land presence.
Quote
"I have tailored my particular list to focus heavily on denying my opponents mana, which is especially effective in a build such as this because you can deny opponents mana"
Your list also dont have the DENYING portion. I dont see any denying part there. The two cards that only deny mana there is Terastodon, Vorinclex and Sundering Titan.
My suggestion for this deck is too add more threats and FLEXIBILITY. Like heavy creatures that do something like Kamahl, Woodfall Primus.
Maybe adding the Survival of the Fittest and Genesis to get those creatures into your hand and adds depth to your playstyle.
You say add more threats but you don't mention the [CARD]Eye of Ugin
[/CARD] and Butcher or Ulamog that can be played over and over that can just win games all on there own.
Haha Im not a fan of a land based combo. My meta in our playgroup is LD based thats why I dont use it. And Im running a 40 land Azusa deck thats why my land list is pretty tight.
What's the reasoning behind Tabernacle? How good has it been for you? I have one sitting in a binder and Azusa sleeved up, so was wondering if you comment on that a bit.
on a side note i have been solitaring this deck on cockatrice and i have noticed that i tend to run out of gas quite often.. it seems like the deck might be a bit too shy on card advantage or ways to get your big threats into your hand / onto the field reliably.
UB Vela the Night-Clad BUDecklist
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WUBRGThe Ur-DragonWUBRGDecklist
I think this is the list that i found a while back and built - I really love it, and I'm very much an Esper style player; please take that as a compliment to your deck.
What are your thoughts on adding Storm Cauldron and/or Primal Surge, or the soon to be released Boundless Realms (ake Epic Ramp Spell)?
Thanks!
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If you're interested in mana denial for your opponents Mishra's Helix + Seedborn Muse is very hard to beat, and it never hurts to have another reason to include / abuse Seedborn Muse who's also great with the amount of utility in your manabase.
In my opinion, especially in multiplayer, Burgeoning is strictly better than Exploration, if you aren't running both (and you could argue that neither are needed with Azusa at the helm)
Halls of Gemstone is an awesome hoser if counterspells are a big problem in your meta, in addition to completely shutting down some decks
Sylvan Safekeeper is also a card to consider; you'll usually have lands you can afford to pitch to counter removal, that is if your opponents even cast their creature removal while he's on the table. I've also found that safekeeper is generally better than Lightning Greaves in this kind of deck as you can afford to pitch lands easily, haste isn't a huge benefit to most of your deck, opponents can't slip removal in before you equip, and it can protect multiple creatures if needed.
I'd also recommend Oblivion Stone over All is Dust (or include both). In multiplayer situations the threat of a board wipe can often be as beneficial as the wipe itself, it destroys artifacts, and if you have the time you can use it to exclude your permanents from the wrath effect (especially effective with Seedborn Muse)
Desert Twister and Spine of Ish Sah are worth a look as well if you're interested in adding flexible removal, which can be hard to come by in green.
Krosan Grip, in addition to being the premier green artifact/enchantment killer/ top killer, has a very interesting interaction with countermagic that i recently discovered. Cast any spell you'd like to protect (or multiple spells if instant) and while you hold priority cast Grip or any spell with split second to make your spells functionally un-counterable.
I don't think that's correct - say I cast Avenger of Zendikar and want to protect it. If I maintain priority and cast Krosan Grip in response to the Avenger, this only locks players out while Grip is still on the stack. Once Grip resolves, Avenger is still on the stack, and players are free to counter the Avenger again.
Anyways, to the deck, Life from the Loam still seems far too powerful to pass up. The interaction with fetchlands, Wasteland variants, and cycling lands is powerful enough on its own, but not only that, the recursion it provides opens up the door for abuse with cards like Buried Ruin and Haunted Fengraf. As you said yourself, the deck folds hard to counter magic. Recurring those threats is a great way to fight back. It's going to take some tinkering with the current decklist to make everything perfect, but I think the addition of Loam and a supporting cast helps takes the deck from 'just ramp' into something more versatile and ultimately more powerful.
Thanks to everyone for all the kind words.
Anyways, here are some of the recent changes I've made to the deck.
Miren, the Moaning Well -> High Market
Springjack Pasture -> Cavern of Souls
Cultivate -> Sprouting Vines
Omnath -> Emerald Medallion
Yavimaya Elder -> Explore
The first thing you should notice is that I haven't replaced Prime Titan and Sundering Titan yet, and that's on purpose. I don't plan on adjusting for the most recent bannings and that's because I stopped following the official ban list after I came to the conclusion that I believe the RC's current philosophy for banning cards is arbitrary and unhealthy for the development of the format. It's alright if you don't agree, but this is what I play in paper with my group at school where the meta is hyper competitive and we just follow the current list minus what we deem are mistakes and banning cards we think deserve to be banned like Ad Nauseum. Losing Sundering Titan wasn't a terrible loss, but losing Prime Titan is back breaking for this deck. So much so that the build here may need major retooling as many of the cards in the decks primary purpose is to grab him (GSZ and NO) and the CA engine that is lost in him means the deck will more frequently run out of gas which was already an issue. If you were to replace these so you can play in metas where these are banned, as a quick fix I would probably recommend putting in any combination of Yavimaya Elder, Cloudstone Curio, and/or Scapeshift, but its really up to you.
Cards Im looking at now are Magus of the Library, Ohran Viper for CA options. Other potential cards are Birthing Pod, Restock, and Life from the Loam.
For those looking to expand further, another line of development I was toying around with as a replacement for the two titans is adding in Oblivion stone and buried ruin along with a few other artifacts... the idea being that wiping the board clean and leaving up a surplus of mana and utility lands is very profitable for us.
EDH:
[Competitive] Azusa, Lost but Seeking (54 Lands)
[Competitive] Azami, Lady of Scrolls (Time Warp combo/control)
[Competitive] Kruphix, God of No (True EDH DrawGo)
BRGrenzo, Dungeon Warden EDH
GAzusa, Always in a Rush EDH
GWUDerevi, Empyrial Warlord EDH
Trade thread on MOTL
WE BACK BOYS!!!
So, I'll be completely honest, though I've been considering rebooting this deck for a while, the printing of The Great Aurora is what actually inspired me to get up and do it. The old list was showing its age with a lot of banned cards and other obsolete interactions, and now that I had a chance to look over the whole thing with an unbiased eye, the cuts were as automatic as the newly printed powerhouse inclusions were. There are a lot of changes that were made, and I will not go over all of them here so if you are curious take a look at the OP which has been updated with them all. Overall though, I can say the list feels a lot cleaner than it used to which is the biggest thing that people should take note of. No more clunk like Seer's Sundial, Duplicant, etc... clogging up your draws. Smoother and more reliable CA, along with changes like:
- Increased 1cc ramp to increase the reliability of strong openenrs
- Increased density of bomb Instants/Sorceries, which in turn warrants the inclusion of the powerhouse Boseiju, Who Shelters All
- Increased utility of land suite, especially in its mana denial
And so I've found that even though this current deck is down a bunch of banned cards that were core to the old list, it runs even better than it did before which is nice. There are still a bunch of things to be tested and if anyone has any questions about their own lists and would like them answered I would love to discuss them with everyone on here. So I'll just end on some of the topics I have been considering:
- NO/GSZ are vestigial slots from the previous iterations of this deck which had Primeval Titan. I still have to test these slots further to see how worth it they are with the current suite of creatures.
- The deck should be looking to include Primal Surge as that its exactly the type of game winning bomb we are looking to pump out, but I'm not sure how to do that really when so many of our essentials are non permanents. Will return to this
- Is 54 the perfect count for lands? I'm not talking about 40 land builds, but am mostly referring to if this deck should be eaking towards a higher or lower count of 53/55 or beyond? Whats the optimal number to ensure making as many land drops as possible while not diluting the deck with too many irrelevant draws and leaving a higher density of power? 54 was the number I settled on way back when I first built this deck, but it is by no means a sacred cow.
EDH:
[Competitive] Azusa, Lost but Seeking (54 Lands)
[Competitive] Azami, Lady of Scrolls (Time Warp combo/control)
[Competitive] Kruphix, God of No (True EDH DrawGo)
BRGrenzo, Dungeon Warden EDH
GAzusa, Always in a Rush EDH
GWUDerevi, Empyrial Warlord EDH
Trade thread on MOTL