What's your opinion on Decree of Pain? Depending on how large your playgroup is, it can turn into 20+ draws. And on the topic of card drawing in Kalia colors, what about Syphon Mind? I have a deck similar to this and my biggest problem is running out of steam, so I started packing cards like Syphon Mind, Ambition's Cost, Promise of Power, Wheel of Fortune. Anything that can get me a new hand, really. Most of the cards I mentioned are pretty cheap too.
I'd like to hear your opinions on the cards I mentioned. They've been working very well for me.
My personal opinion on Syphon Mind: I don't particularly like Syphon Mind lately, mainly because of Mimeoplasm/Teneb decks running rampant enough, and Syphon Mind helping them entomb some good targets.
My personal opinion on Syphon Mind: I don't particularly like Syphon Mind lately, mainly because of Mimeoplasm/Teneb decks running rampant enough, and Syphon Mind helping them entomb some good targets.
I dunno, I usually do 5+ player games of EDH, and I wouldn't turn down drawing 4+ cards on the slight chance I'll be facing a mimeoplasm'd Akroma. But I guess that all depends on your playgroup, huh?
I dunno, I usually do 5+ player games of EDH, and I wouldn't turn down drawing 4+ cards on the slight chance I'll be facing a mimeoplasm'd Akroma. But I guess that all depends on your playgroup, huh?
Absolutely. I generally always play in 3-4 player games, rarely ever 5 players and never more than 5, so it's less valuable to me, even though it's still a good one-time draw. It's just that there's so many decks that want to reanimate stuff around me nowadays that it became less good. ;\
I should probably test out Decree in here. The deck could certainly use more sweepers and more draw, though this deck doesn't seem to be nearly as "draw hungry" as most decks I play.
Right now I've got Phy Arena, Wheel of Fortune, and Sol Simulacrum for draw. I originally used Syphon Mind and Promise of Power as well, and I love them, they're great cards, but I ended up replacing them in favor of more punishment and removal. I obsess over small things when it comes to edh decks, and this is one of those. It actually causes me a lot of stress whether to put back more draw in here and where to sacrifice the card slots for it (pretty sad, huh).
If I were running punishments for discard, Syphon would be auto include.
I'm going to be keeping an eye on how often I really need draw when playing the deck. I will go ahead and give Decree a test run.
Very nice decklist. I do have a question as I was thinking about making a deck to punish the greedy decks around. Do you get hated out once people see your strat? It seems like having some of your enchantments like Manabarbs, Painful Quandary, Spiteful Visions would make you a huge target? This has been the one thing holding me back on playing a punisher style deck.
Very nice decklist. I do have a question as I was thinking about making a deck to punish the greedy decks around. Do you get hated out once people see your strat? It seems like having some of your enchantments like Manabarbs, Painful Quandary, Spiteful Visions would make you a huge target? This has been the one thing holding me back on playing a punisher style deck.
Mostly, I don't seem to be considered so much of a threat as to be hated on early (at least by those who aren't familiar with the deck). Mostly players seem concerned with not wanting Kaalia to hit play and attack, which is a fine diversion really. The enchants get killed quickly, so I have recursion for them, and then when you make the first really big hit, the table decides you need to die. Hopefully by that point I've got some defense/sweepers/life buffer to hold them off long enough to finish. When it works, it's a beautiful thing, but even when it doesn't it's a lot of fun to be the bad guy (occasionally).
It's been quite a bit of fun in duels too, as it's a lot harder for a single player to deal with.
Mostly, I don't seem to be considered so much of a threat as to be hated on early (at least by those who aren't familiar with the deck). Mostly players seem concerned with not wanting Kaalia to hit play and attack, which is a fine diversion really. The enchants get killed quickly, so I have recursion for them, and then when you make the first really big hit, the table decides you need to die. Hopefully by that point I've got some defense/sweepers/life buffer to hold them off long enough to finish. When it works, it's a beautiful thing, but even when it doesn't it's a lot of fun to be the bad guy (occasionally).
It's been quite a bit of fun in duels too, as it's a lot harder for a single player to deal with.
Hrm good to know. Btw you primer/deck is not listed on the decklist/database here. Which would make it easier to find.
I am revamping my Thraximundar deck in this style of play. If you have any suggestions it can be found here. Would be appreciated. It is more of a forced draw, punishing style. Though it is a rough draft atm. So will see how it shapes out.
I am revamping my Thraximundar deck in this style of play. If you have any suggestions it can be found here. Would be appreciated. It is more of a forced draw, punishing style. Though it is a rough draft atm. So will see how it shapes out.
Cool deck! Gave me some good ideas for my own deck, mine was too dependent on kaalia.
Some cards I play that work realy well for me are: volrath's stronghold, cauldron dance, moat, glory, living death and sneak attack.
I was thinking of including: Necropotence + word's of worship/word's of waste (+geth's grimoire) as a tech, but I'm not sure if it will be effective.. Anyone have any experience with that tech?
Moat IS a great card for this, but I've found it's a little too pricey for guys like me who're building on a budget. ^^;
I'm working on a Kallia deck like yours. Your version makes more sense.
When you get a chance can you take a look at my version and tell me what I need.
I'm missing something but don't know what http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=349044
Very intriguing deck. I was looking at putting together a Kaalia deck of my own but was running into the problem of her dying a lot as well. I like this take on her as a general. in colors that can support it Ive always liked Martyr's Bond, Karmic Justice and Grave Pact style cards for really any deck in those colors
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Every rarity gets good cards. That means that some mythic rares will be tournament quality as will some commons, some uncommons and some rares. My promise wasn't that mythic rares wouldn't get good cards but that we wouldn't limit the good cards to only being mythic rare.
Bear this in mind the next time a powerful mythic rare is spoiled
Thanks to chaostheory90 for finding this quiz for me
I'm probably going to end up swinging even more into the punisher direction with this. Cut out a few more beaters that aren't strictly for lifegain/defense along with a little creature recursion, then add more mass removal, punishment/pacts, and maybe the "evergreen" creatures (bloodghast/reassembling skeleton/nether traitor with Skullclamp) to help with draw and pact effects.... maybe. There just might not be enough room to do everything I want.
This is an excellent take on Kaalia because many try to make her boobies to the wall aggro which is very weak imo. I have to say the recommended music playlist is a really creative idea because music can help make a game more exciting.
This is an excellent take on Kaalia because many try to make her boobies to the wall aggro which is very weak imo. I have to say the recommended music playlist is a really creative idea because music can help make a game more exciting.
If Zo-Zu makes the cut you should definitely be running Ankh of Mishra. It's a huge beating vs. green decks, I've seen Azusa take 20+ damage from it.
I like it. Harder to kill than Zo-Zu, doesn't die to my own sweeps, and cheap to cast. I have a particular fondness for 2-drop utility (or ramp) stuff in my edh decks. It is a bit harder to recur than Zo in here, but I think the plusses outweigh that. I'll put it on the watchlist and order one at end-of-month with my Innistrad purchase. Thank you.
I have been working on a RWU land destruction deck with Numot, the Devastator, anyway it failed horribly, most of the other guys in my meta have just as many artifact mana as I am running, but anyway....
... in the process of building this deck I threw in Vicious Shadows, and I fell in love with this card after killing 2 players with it, so now my focus is to find the deck to make it work best in.
If you were to make Vicious Shadows your main focus, how would you change your deck concept?
At this point I am thinking BWR is better colors because it has the most pure removal, and white can tutor and retrieve enchantments from the grave.
I had ruled out Kaalia, but after seeing your deck, I am thinking Kaalia again, because I too tried to make a kaalia deck that failed time after time to removal, I think my record was having her killed 6 times before I gave up casting her. Its kinda funny I never thought of Corpse Dance, since I only run it in every other deck I have that runs black (Child, Ghave, Mimoplasm)
I know it sounds kind of silly to make a deck out of one card that's not even my commander, but tonight I found out how amusing it is for the first time killing 2 players in 2 games, and I never played any removal, my opponents were triggering it for me.
If you were to make Vicious Shadows your main focus, how would you change your deck concept?
Okay, done rambling, any ideas?
I absolutely have some thoughts on that. If I were to try to abuse any 1 card in here, that's the one it would be. I like the idea, let's run with it!
I know it sounds kind of silly to make a deck out of one card that's not even my commander, but tonight I found out how amusing it is for the first time killing 2 players in 2 games, and I never played any removal, my opponents were triggering it for me.
Well, it would be silly to base the deck totally around it, but there will still be lots of other ways for you to win.
4) Make sure to have Skullclamp to take advantage of your little dudes dying (and even works on them as a sac outlet). Grave Pact and Martyr's Bond gain even more strength in here.
5) Keep the Lark/Guide combo as it kills the table with Shadows, and they're both so good on their own. Also keep Spiteful Visions, as you want to keep everyones hand full. Another card or two along those lines like Howling Mine might be good too.
10) Spell redirection will be really helpful to protect Shadows from Return to Dust or other targeted enchant removal, and they'll be plenty useful on their own. Wild Ricochet, Imp's Mischief, Shunt.
11) A possibly awesome combo with Shadows would be Tombstone Stairwell. It's a little iffy, but it would be pretty darn cool.
12) I'd even consider sac outlets that allow you to sac or destroy Shadows in response to an exile spell. Infernal Tribute is a little iffy, but Kami of Ancient Law is a possibility. It self sacs which is great in here to trigger things, and it's "Larkable". Not sure about these cards, just brainstorming, but the Kami is plenty useful. Aura of Silence could be used to the same effect and would be useful otherwise as well.
14) Maybe Greater Auramancy? I'm sure there are other good spells I haven't thought of yet.
What we end up with is an enchantment heavy control deck, with tons of sacrifice and profiting from that with damage, draw, pacts. Lots of recursion and alternate wincons with Lark/Guide combo or Yosei Lock. I think it sounds like a fun deck, and well worth trying.
Definite Inclusions: Angel of Despair (I've won a lot of games because of her) Rune-Scarred Demon Emeria Angel(or at least likely inclusion) - Early drop, synergy with kaalia, and gives us little birds to block, clamp/sac/trigger Shadows.
I'd like to hear your opinions on the cards I mentioned. They've been working very well for me.
SELLING A CHAMPS DORAN + LIBRARY OF ALEXANDRIA + FOIL DARK CONFIDANT
MY TRADE THREAD _/_ ALWAYS OPEN TO TRADING SOMETHING _\_ HAVE A LOOK
I dunno, I usually do 5+ player games of EDH, and I wouldn't turn down drawing 4+ cards on the slight chance I'll be facing a mimeoplasm'd Akroma. But I guess that all depends on your playgroup, huh?
Absolutely. I generally always play in 3-4 player games, rarely ever 5 players and never more than 5, so it's less valuable to me, even though it's still a good one-time draw. It's just that there's so many decks that want to reanimate stuff around me nowadays that it became less good. ;\
SELLING A CHAMPS DORAN + LIBRARY OF ALEXANDRIA + FOIL DARK CONFIDANT
MY TRADE THREAD _/_ ALWAYS OPEN TO TRADING SOMETHING _\_ HAVE A LOOK
Right now I've got Phy Arena, Wheel of Fortune, and Sol Simulacrum for draw. I originally used Syphon Mind and Promise of Power as well, and I love them, they're great cards, but I ended up replacing them in favor of more punishment and removal. I obsess over small things when it comes to edh decks, and this is one of those. It actually causes me a lot of stress whether to put back more draw in here and where to sacrifice the card slots for it (pretty sad, huh).
If I were running punishments for discard, Syphon would be auto include.
I'm going to be keeping an eye on how often I really need draw when playing the deck. I will go ahead and give Decree a test run.
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EDH Math
EDH Decks:
Ghost Council: The Magic Mafia of Orzhova
BB Drana: Down with the Sickness
Rasputin: Reality is Broken
Vish Kal Bleeder: Bloody Kisses
Teysa, Orzhov Dominatrix
Stonebrow: Breaking Things
BWR Kaalia Punisher: Heaven's on Fire
Grimgrin: Dead Reckoning
Mostly, I don't seem to be considered so much of a threat as to be hated on early (at least by those who aren't familiar with the deck). Mostly players seem concerned with not wanting Kaalia to hit play and attack, which is a fine diversion really. The enchants get killed quickly, so I have recursion for them, and then when you make the first really big hit, the table decides you need to die. Hopefully by that point I've got some defense/sweepers/life buffer to hold them off long enough to finish. When it works, it's a beautiful thing, but even when it doesn't it's a lot of fun to be the bad guy (occasionally).
It's been quite a bit of fun in duels too, as it's a lot harder for a single player to deal with.
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EDH Math
EDH Decks:
Ghost Council: The Magic Mafia of Orzhova
BB Drana: Down with the Sickness
Rasputin: Reality is Broken
Vish Kal Bleeder: Bloody Kisses
Teysa, Orzhov Dominatrix
Stonebrow: Breaking Things
BWR Kaalia Punisher: Heaven's on Fire
Grimgrin: Dead Reckoning
Hrm good to know. Btw you primer/deck is not listed on the decklist/database here. Which would make it easier to find.
I am revamping my Thraximundar deck in this style of play. If you have any suggestions it can be found here. Would be appreciated. It is more of a forced draw, punishing style. Though it is a rough draft atm. So will see how it shapes out.
On my way.
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EDH Math
EDH Decks:
Ghost Council: The Magic Mafia of Orzhova
BB Drana: Down with the Sickness
Rasputin: Reality is Broken
Vish Kal Bleeder: Bloody Kisses
Teysa, Orzhov Dominatrix
Stonebrow: Breaking Things
BWR Kaalia Punisher: Heaven's on Fire
Grimgrin: Dead Reckoning
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?p=7009436#post7009436
Always nice to see another take on a similar deck, yes?
--- Meren of Clan Nel Toth --- Jhoira of the Ghitu --- Prime Speaker Zegana ---
--- Drana, Kalastria Bloodchief --- Ghoulcaller Gisa --- Akroma, Angel of Fury --- Titania, Protector of Argoth ---
Hadn't seen it, but I'm on my way.
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EDH Math
EDH Decks:
Ghost Council: The Magic Mafia of Orzhova
BB Drana: Down with the Sickness
Rasputin: Reality is Broken
Vish Kal Bleeder: Bloody Kisses
Teysa, Orzhov Dominatrix
Stonebrow: Breaking Things
BWR Kaalia Punisher: Heaven's on Fire
Grimgrin: Dead Reckoning
Moat IS a great card for this, but I've found it's a little too pricey for guys like me who're building on a budget. ^^;
www.commandercast.com
Commandercast on Tumblr!
My EDH/Commander List:
Wedges:
Numot, the Devastator RWU
Damia, Sage of Stone GUB
Niv-Mizzet, Dracogenius
Olivia Voldaren
Not that I'm aware of
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EDH Math
EDH Decks:
Ghost Council: The Magic Mafia of Orzhova
BB Drana: Down with the Sickness
Rasputin: Reality is Broken
Vish Kal Bleeder: Bloody Kisses
Teysa, Orzhov Dominatrix
Stonebrow: Breaking Things
BWR Kaalia Punisher: Heaven's on Fire
Grimgrin: Dead Reckoning
When you get a chance can you take a look at my version and tell me what I need.
I'm missing something but don't know what
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=349044
Bear this in mind the next time a powerful mythic rare is spoiled
Thanks to chaostheory90 for finding this quiz for me
I've been considering those more lately...
I'm probably going to end up swinging even more into the punisher direction with this. Cut out a few more beaters that aren't strictly for lifegain/defense along with a little creature recursion, then add more mass removal, punishment/pacts, and maybe the "evergreen" creatures (bloodghast/reassembling skeleton/nether traitor with Skullclamp) to help with draw and pact effects.... maybe. There just might not be enough room to do everything I want.
Banner by Nakamura, Thanks!
EDH Math
EDH Decks:
Ghost Council: The Magic Mafia of Orzhova
BB Drana: Down with the Sickness
Rasputin: Reality is Broken
Vish Kal Bleeder: Bloody Kisses
Teysa, Orzhov Dominatrix
Stonebrow: Breaking Things
BWR Kaalia Punisher: Heaven's on Fire
Grimgrin: Dead Reckoning
Thank you.
I like it. Harder to kill than Zo-Zu, doesn't die to my own sweeps, and cheap to cast. I have a particular fondness for 2-drop utility (or ramp) stuff in my edh decks. It is a bit harder to recur than Zo in here, but I think the plusses outweigh that. I'll put it on the watchlist and order one at end-of-month with my Innistrad purchase. Thank you.
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EDH Math
EDH Decks:
Ghost Council: The Magic Mafia of Orzhova
BB Drana: Down with the Sickness
Rasputin: Reality is Broken
Vish Kal Bleeder: Bloody Kisses
Teysa, Orzhov Dominatrix
Stonebrow: Breaking Things
BWR Kaalia Punisher: Heaven's on Fire
Grimgrin: Dead Reckoning
... in the process of building this deck I threw in Vicious Shadows, and I fell in love with this card after killing 2 players with it, so now my focus is to find the deck to make it work best in.
If you were to make Vicious Shadows your main focus, how would you change your deck concept?
At this point I am thinking BWR is better colors because it has the most pure removal, and white can tutor and retrieve enchantments from the grave.
I had ruled out Kaalia, but after seeing your deck, I am thinking Kaalia again, because I too tried to make a kaalia deck that failed time after time to removal, I think my record was having her killed 6 times before I gave up casting her. Its kinda funny I never thought of Corpse Dance, since I only run it in every other deck I have that runs black (Child, Ghave, Mimoplasm)
I know it sounds kind of silly to make a deck out of one card that's not even my commander, but tonight I found out how amusing it is for the first time killing 2 players in 2 games, and I never played any removal, my opponents were triggering it for me.
Okay, done rambling, any ideas?
Azusa - Derevi - Glissa - Mizzix - Sharuum - Wanderer - Wort
I absolutely have some thoughts on that. If I were to try to abuse any 1 card in here, that's the one it would be. I like the idea, let's run with it!
Well, it would be silly to base the deck totally around it, but there will still be lots of other ways for you to win.
Using the op decklist as a template to modify:
1) Keep as many sac outlets as possible - Blasting Station, Phyrexian Tower, High Market, Greater Gargadon.
2) Keep all plus strenthen mass removal not only to help control the board but you'll like lots of creatures dying. Black Sun's Zenith, Damnation, Austere Command, Earthquake, Comet Storm
3) Add self-recurring creatures and fodder like Bloodghast, Nether Traitor, Reassembling Skeleton, Bitterblossom, Goblin Assault.
4) Make sure to have Skullclamp to take advantage of your little dudes dying (and even works on them as a sac outlet). Grave Pact and Martyr's Bond gain even more strength in here.
5) Keep the Lark/Guide combo as it kills the table with Shadows, and they're both so good on their own. Also keep Spiteful Visions, as you want to keep everyones hand full. Another card or two along those lines like Howling Mine might be good too.
6) Keep/add plenty of tutors to fetch Shadows with. Demonic Tutor, Vampiric Tutor, Enlightened Tutor, maybe Idyllic Tutor or Diabolic Tutor. Absolutely must have Academy Rector.
7) Keep/add anything that can recur Shadows from the grave. Auramancer, Argivian Find, Replenish, Yawgmoth's Will. Monk Idealist and Mine Excavation are possibilities. Open the Vaults is a consideration as it will likely profit you more than the others.
8) With so much tutoring and recursion for enchantments, a few more good ones would be in order. Debtors' Knell, Stranglehold (to prevent answers), Faith's Fetters, Wound Reflection, Manabarbs
9) Token bringers with sac abilities will be very good. Knight-Captain of Eos, Siege-Gang Commander, and maybe Skeletal Vampire.
10) Spell redirection will be really helpful to protect Shadows from Return to Dust or other targeted enchant removal, and they'll be plenty useful on their own. Wild Ricochet, Imp's Mischief, Shunt.
11) A possibly awesome combo with Shadows would be Tombstone Stairwell. It's a little iffy, but it would be pretty darn cool.
12) I'd even consider sac outlets that allow you to sac or destroy Shadows in response to an exile spell. Infernal Tribute is a little iffy, but Kami of Ancient Law is a possibility. It self sacs which is great in here to trigger things, and it's "Larkable". Not sure about these cards, just brainstorming, but the Kami is plenty useful. Aura of Silence could be used to the same effect and would be useful otherwise as well.
13) A couple other keepers are Yosei, the Morning Star(doubles as yet another wincon), Warstorm Surge, maybe Pyrohemia, Sorin Markov, Fleshbag Marauder, Archon of Justice, Mortify.
14) Maybe Greater Auramancy? I'm sure there are other good spells I haven't thought of yet.
What we end up with is an enchantment heavy control deck, with tons of sacrifice and profiting from that with damage, draw, pacts. Lots of recursion and alternate wincons with Lark/Guide combo or Yosei Lock. I think it sounds like a fun deck, and well worth trying.
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EDH Math
EDH Decks:
Ghost Council: The Magic Mafia of Orzhova
BB Drana: Down with the Sickness
Rasputin: Reality is Broken
Vish Kal Bleeder: Bloody Kisses
Teysa, Orzhov Dominatrix
Stonebrow: Breaking Things
BWR Kaalia Punisher: Heaven's on Fire
Grimgrin: Dead Reckoning
.
Azusa - Derevi - Glissa - Mizzix - Sharuum - Wanderer - Wort
Yep, she would still be good as a finisher/ another way to win.
Already Included:
Karmic Guide (official type is now Angel)
Yosei, the Morning Star
Definite Inclusions:
Angel of Despair (I've won a lot of games because of her)
Rune-Scarred Demon
Emeria Angel(or at least likely inclusion) - Early drop, synergy with kaalia, and gives us little birds to block, clamp/sac/trigger Shadows.
Other Possibilities:
Bogardan Hellkite
Deathless Angel
Seizan, Perverter of Truth
Aegis Angel
Sunblast Angel (negative synergy with Kaalia, but good for the deck otherwise)
Linvala, Keeper of Silence
Twilight Shepherd
Steel Hellkite
Shivan Hellkite
Adarkar Valkyrie
Akroma, Angel of Wrath
Baneslayer Angel
** oh, and Mistveil Plains should be in there to help protect against graveyard hate.
Banner by Nakamura, Thanks!
EDH Math
EDH Decks:
Ghost Council: The Magic Mafia of Orzhova
BB Drana: Down with the Sickness
Rasputin: Reality is Broken
Vish Kal Bleeder: Bloody Kisses
Teysa, Orzhov Dominatrix
Stonebrow: Breaking Things
BWR Kaalia Punisher: Heaven's on Fire
Grimgrin: Dead Reckoning
.
Azusa - Derevi - Glissa - Mizzix - Sharuum - Wanderer - Wort