Thanks for the understanding. The sword thing makes sense. I am moving from a Zur the Hated Out...to a decklist similar to the style of this one..and will probably be asking a bunch of questions.
I have loved Catacylsm for the most part. I sometimes call it the "white Obliterate" since it provides about the closest thing to a full wipe you can get in Esper.Ravages of War would be great to have, but since I play on paper, it is currently out of my price range. Merciless Eviction has been great so far. I prefer exiling over anything, so it gets the nod over Austere Command here.
Flagstones of Trokair was in my deck and actually could come back, but it was removed with a couple non-basics to help add in additional basic lands to handle the rampant use of Blood Moon, Magus of the Moon, and Back to Basics in my meta. It may eventually come back into the deck though.
Very neat deck. I've been running Mono black stax now for a while with Shirei, Shizo's Caretaker and now just swapped it over to a less creature based Erebos, God of the Dead deck. I always feel like im missing some reach and I have been thinking of going either Esper or BUG. This deck is really cool, runs differently from my really aggressive and in your face DISCARD AND SACRIFICE EVERYTHING. I feel like this is more subtle. Love it.
Thanks. Glad to see new people around the deck. I know mono black stax is really powerful but always feel like losing white or blue is a huge loss. It's just personal preference I guess. I have played BUG stax before and while green adds more than most people think, it does not provide all that white does. Let me know if you have any questions on the deck.
EDIT: Thassa, God of the Sea has been pretty great so far. She's subtle card advantage, plus you might be surprised how useful the unblockable is sometimes. The indestructibility has proven to be great protection, even with a meta full of Deglamer effects. Overall, far more useful than Tamiyo, the Moon Sage was in the same spot.
I am thinking that even if we never cast the general, his subtle lifegain should be useful with Ancient Tomb, Bitterblossom, etc. and if he does hit the field, we only lose 2 power, but at the benefit of card draw, lifeloss for opponents, and lifegain for us. Overall, looks like a pretty easy swap.
I have been debating pulling the Swords package lately in favor of trying out Erebos, God of the Dead, Elspeth, Sun's Champion, or a small package of counterspells. The Swords are still really good however, so removing them might be a bad idea overall. Thoughts?
I am thinking that even if we never cast the general, his subtle lifegain should be useful with Ancient Tomb, Bitterblossom, etc. and if he does hit the field, we only lose 2 power, but at the benefit of card draw, lifeloss for opponents, and lifegain for us. Overall, looks like a pretty easy swap.
I have been debating pulling the Swords package lately in favor of trying out Erebos, God of the Dead, Elspeth, Sun's Champion, or a small package of counterspells. The Swords are still really good however, so removing them might be a bad idea overall. Thoughts?
I say go for it man. In game you never really cast out Dromar, and this guy being able to assist from the command zone would be pretty helpful with the amount of wrist slashing your deck does.
if you take out the Swords..would Meekstone be a good card?
I don't run any 3 power creatures except manlands that turn off anyway..and a couple vigilance creatures.
I like Meekstone, and could see it added with Kismet, Blind Obedience, or one of those effects if you wanted to bring in a small package of tap effects.
I loved whenever I employed Kismet and Frozen Aether, but eventually replaced them. Dropping the Swords opens up room for them again if you wanted to try them instead. Diadallos is currently trying a counter suite in place.
Been playing him since he was spoiled. He completely gives this deck everything it wants. The life gain gives you a nice buffer for your effects and opponents attempts to take you with non-general damage. I even cast him a couple times to test his bleed-draw ability which worked well too.
Needless to say, I need to look into what it takes to switch generals with the Primer committee and if reapplying is necessary.
A couple changes are in store, including my dropping of the Sword package for now.
Also, does anyone have any thoughts on In the Eye of Chaos? I only run 7 instants, so I am inclined to think it would tax my opponents in my meta far more.
I haven't read the whole eight pages but I think I might be misunderstanding something. How is torpor orb + portcullis a lockdown effect? Doesnt torpor orb stop portcullis's effect from going off?
I haven't read the whole eight pages but I think I might be misunderstanding something. How is torpor orb + portcullis a lockdown effect? Doesnt torpor orb stop portcullis's effect from going off?
I don't think we are currently running Portcullis. The reason is that the strategy of Pillow Forting is to make people attack others, while we hide behind our Great Wall of Enchantments! Things like Portcullis and Silent Arbiter just turn creatures off completely, whereas we want to make ourselves an inconvenient target while others get pillaged.
I am a big fan in adding whatever I can in the way of cards from Beta-The Dark and I just might add these. Sure they are not optimal but...they aren't terrible. I have The Abyss already in my deck.
Hey Styx, I was kind of curious. If i were to want to run Zur as the commander in this deck, would there be a lot of cards that you would change? Or do you think the deck run just as smooth without having to change anything.
Hey Styx, I was kind of curious. If i were to want to run Zur as the commander in this deck, would there be a lot of cards that you would change? Or do you think the deck run just as smooth without having to change anything.
Hey Martin. I actually think you would be fine for the most part leaving the deck as is. This is of course assuming you did not want to opt for the stereotypical Zur pieces, like Vanishing. I personally think just using Zur as a solid toolbox general is more than fine without relying on those cards. If you're not opposed to trying Oloro, then I'd advocate for trying him as well. His abilities are relevant at any stage of the game. Testing out a couple will let you see how your meta responds to each as well.
Hope this helps. Let me know if you have any other questions!
Hey just wondering when do you think you'll change your deck list with Oloro at the helm?
Hey, I will be able to update my title and everything in the database after 1 month following Oloro's release. I will try and update the decklist on the first page sometime in the next few days. Essentially not too much changed besides removing the Sword package for a couple new test cards.
I cannot speak for the entire primer committee, but your primer is such an excellent example that I think the process of switching should be quick and painless.
Yeah...if you're just going to switch this to Oloro then I'm not going to bother finishing with my attempts at a primer with my Oloro list. This thread is to high quality to compete with.
Bigbear I think your deck is vastly different than the one in this thread so I encourage you to keep working on it!
You did a decent job on your primer so far, and shouldn't view this thread as competition. I think most would agree that we are all here to help each other, and it's nice to have multiple sources for fresh ideas.
Bigbear I think your deck is vastly different than the one in this thread so I encourage you to keep working on it!
You did a decent job on your primer so far, and shouldn't view this thread as competition. I think most would agree that we are all here to help each other, and it's nice to have multiple sources for fresh ideas.
I appreciate the kind comments, thank you. My impression is that there can only be 1 primer per commander even if there are multiple lists with completely different directions. If I'm wrong about that I'll definitely keep working on my list/thread even if he switches this to an Oloro deck.
If there can only be 1 and he switches to Oloro I'd definitely feel this list deserves the status. It's more thoroughly tested as a deck (though with a different commander). It's a more competitive deck (I like the power level of mine but it's still mostly casual) and the write-up is top notch.
Also: Glacial Chasm works well as a pillowfort with this package. With Land Tax, Land Equilibrium, working for us, the "sacrifice a land" isn't as much of a drawback if we don't want to pay the life and just recur it each turn.
Also: Glacial Chasm works well as a pillowfort with this package. With Land Tax, Land Equilibrium, working for us, the "sacrifice a land" isn't as much of a drawback if we don't want to pay the life and just recur it each turn.
I agree whole-heartedly with you. Glacial Chasm has been clutch for me in so many games, and being able to recur it with Cruicible of Worlds is amazing.
One card I haven't seen mentioned yet is Yawgmoth's Will. I run it in my list and it has always been relevent. Is there any real reason not too? And what does everyone think about Toxic Deluge as a wrath effect? It gets indestructable, and it's aggressively costed at 3 with only one black needed. the only downside is you're paying the life while casting it so if it gets countred you're sol but ive never had the life loss be an issue.
first off, this my first post in this thread. been following it for about a month. i've scoured over other oloro pillowfort decks and tried em all out. but i think this one is the pillowfort on the right track. the other pillowfort decks run too little mana rocks with soooo many top end spells that it ends up being durdly. i do hope you get to change your thread from Dromar to Oloro so more people can see the deck and chime in. i found this thread cuz i searched up stax and this came up along with the other oloro decks. im trying out your list with a few changes for my meta. ill post some comments once i get more games in. but so far its been pretty sweet. deck has answers to almost everything. torpor orb was such a good call. sulvan primordials, bane of progress etc are rampant in my meta. only an All Is Dust would give me fits. but thats easily answered by a counterspell/replenish. hope you keep on improving thus dromar/oloro list. it seems poised to be a real top contender.
So I'm coming back to MTG and I want to check out EDH. Sadly, I don't own any Jace, TMS anymore. I went and bought the Esper EDH premade. Are there a few tips for keeping this list a little more budget friendly for now?
I am hesitant to run him, just because he can be stolen and shut down some of the deck. Same reason I don't use Avacyn in my Indestructible Child of Alara list. Then again, the deck runs plenty of control and the lifegain isn't as important as some other Oloro lists. He really is a great card; Indestructible Greed (at a higher cost), and keeps lifegain in check since we aren't planning on any combo or commander damage to win outright.
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I have loved Catacylsm for the most part. I sometimes call it the "white Obliterate" since it provides about the closest thing to a full wipe you can get in Esper.Ravages of War would be great to have, but since I play on paper, it is currently out of my price range. Merciless Eviction has been great so far. I prefer exiling over anything, so it gets the nod over Austere Command here.
Flagstones of Trokair was in my deck and actually could come back, but it was removed with a couple non-basics to help add in additional basic lands to handle the rampant use of Blood Moon, Magus of the Moon, and Back to Basics in my meta. It may eventually come back into the deck though.
Thanks. Glad to see new people around the deck. I know mono black stax is really powerful but always feel like losing white or blue is a huge loss. It's just personal preference I guess. I have played BUG stax before and while green adds more than most people think, it does not provide all that white does. Let me know if you have any questions on the deck.
EDIT: Thassa, God of the Sea has been pretty great so far. She's subtle card advantage, plus you might be surprised how useful the unblockable is sometimes. The indestructibility has proven to be great protection, even with a meta full of Deglamer effects. Overall, far more useful than Tamiyo, the Moon Sage was in the same spot.
[Primer] WUB Dromar, the Banisher Stax [SOON TO BE OLORO]
For reference, here is the spoiler for Oloro: http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=546132
I am thinking that even if we never cast the general, his subtle lifegain should be useful with Ancient Tomb, Bitterblossom, etc. and if he does hit the field, we only lose 2 power, but at the benefit of card draw, lifeloss for opponents, and lifegain for us. Overall, looks like a pretty easy swap.
I have been debating pulling the Swords package lately in favor of trying out Erebos, God of the Dead, Elspeth, Sun's Champion, or a small package of counterspells. The Swords are still really good however, so removing them might be a bad idea overall. Thoughts?
[Primer] WUB Dromar, the Banisher Stax [SOON TO BE OLORO]
I say go for it man. In game you never really cast out Dromar, and this guy being able to assist from the command zone would be pretty helpful with the amount of wrist slashing your deck does.
[Primer] - Jor Kadeen, Boros Legionnaire
WUBRGSliver Legion, Slynergistic Slivertastic BeatdownWUBRG
Here are some of the EDH decks I have to deal with...
[Primer] WUBDromar, the Banisher Esper StaxWUB
I don't run any 3 power creatures except manlands that turn off anyway..and a couple vigilance creatures.
Oloro has asked for Dromar's resignation.
..
Azusa - Derevi - Glissa - Mizzix - Sharuum - Wanderer - Wort
I like Meekstone, and could see it added with Kismet, Blind Obedience, or one of those effects if you wanted to bring in a small package of tap effects.
I loved whenever I employed Kismet and Frozen Aether, but eventually replaced them. Dropping the Swords opens up room for them again if you wanted to try them instead. Diadallos is currently trying a counter suite in place.
Been playing him since he was spoiled. He completely gives this deck everything it wants. The life gain gives you a nice buffer for your effects and opponents attempts to take you with non-general damage. I even cast him a couple times to test his bleed-draw ability which worked well too.
Needless to say, I need to look into what it takes to switch generals with the Primer committee and if reapplying is necessary.
A couple changes are in store, including my dropping of the Sword package for now.
Also, does anyone have any thoughts on In the Eye of Chaos? I only run 7 instants, so I am inclined to think it would tax my opponents in my meta far more.
[Primer] WUB Dromar, the Banisher Stax [SOON TO BE OLORO]
I don't think we are currently running Portcullis. The reason is that the strategy of Pillow Forting is to make people attack others, while we hide behind our Great Wall of Enchantments! Things like Portcullis and Silent Arbiter just turn creatures off completely, whereas we want to make ourselves an inconvenient target while others get pillaged.
Meekstone was mentioned a couple posts up... This, and cards like crackdown are not optimal because the fatties get to hit you once, and sometimes if it's a craterhoof behemoth, Marton Stromgald or Hazezon Tamar alpha strike... You're still dead. Ezuri Renegade Leader, Triumph of the Horde, Kamahl Fist of Krosa? Well you get the point... dead These decks also usually play Seedborn Muse or Prophet of Kruphix. We're almost better off with a Wrath effect.
If anyone was looking for budget options, I suggest in addition to Propaganda and Ghostly Prison, cards like Island Sanctuary and/or Teferi's Moat.
I am a big fan in adding whatever I can in the way of cards from Beta-The Dark and I just might add these. Sure they are not optimal but...they aren't terrible. I have The Abyss already in my deck.
I am running Lady Evangela just for this reason.
Hey Martin. I actually think you would be fine for the most part leaving the deck as is. This is of course assuming you did not want to opt for the stereotypical Zur pieces, like Vanishing. I personally think just using Zur as a solid toolbox general is more than fine without relying on those cards. If you're not opposed to trying Oloro, then I'd advocate for trying him as well. His abilities are relevant at any stage of the game. Testing out a couple will let you see how your meta responds to each as well.
Hope this helps. Let me know if you have any other questions!
[Primer] WUB Dromar, the Banisher Stax [SOON TO BE OLORO]
Hey, I will be able to update my title and everything in the database after 1 month following Oloro's release. I will try and update the decklist on the first page sometime in the next few days. Essentially not too much changed besides removing the Sword package for a couple new test cards.
[Primer] WUB Dromar, the Banisher Stax [SOON TO BE OLORO]
GWUBAtraxa, Praetor's Voice PrimerGWUB
GWURoon Bant Blink WhateverGWU
BRGLord Windgrace LandsBRG
EDH Decks:
WUBOloro, Combo ControlWUB
UBOona Reanimator ComboUB
BRGProssh, Eater of the Blue MageBRG
UBRGrixis StormUBR
Rebuilding Jenara (stealyourstuff.dec)
Pauper Deck:
UBInspired SirenUB
You did a decent job on your primer so far, and shouldn't view this thread as competition. I think most would agree that we are all here to help each other, and it's nice to have multiple sources for fresh ideas.
I appreciate the kind comments, thank you. My impression is that there can only be 1 primer per commander even if there are multiple lists with completely different directions. If I'm wrong about that I'll definitely keep working on my list/thread even if he switches this to an Oloro deck.
If there can only be 1 and he switches to Oloro I'd definitely feel this list deserves the status. It's more thoroughly tested as a deck (though with a different commander). It's a more competitive deck (I like the power level of mine but it's still mostly casual) and the write-up is top notch.
EDH Decks:
WUBOloro, Combo ControlWUB
UBOona Reanimator ComboUB
BRGProssh, Eater of the Blue MageBRG
UBRGrixis StormUBR
Rebuilding Jenara (stealyourstuff.dec)
Pauper Deck:
UBInspired SirenUB
Crucible of Worlds
and
Thespian's Stage + Dark Depths (Legend rule combo)
Also: Glacial Chasm works well as a pillowfort with this package. With Land Tax, Land Equilibrium, working for us, the "sacrifice a land" isn't as much of a drawback if we don't want to pay the life and just recur it each turn.
I agree whole-heartedly with you. Glacial Chasm has been clutch for me in so many games, and being able to recur it with Cruicible of Worlds is amazing.
One card I haven't seen mentioned yet is Yawgmoth's Will. I run it in my list and it has always been relevent. Is there any real reason not too? And what does everyone think about Toxic Deluge as a wrath effect? It gets indestructable, and it's aggressively costed at 3 with only one black needed. the only downside is you're paying the life while casting it so if it gets countred you're sol but ive never had the life loss be an issue.
LegacyUBRDelverRBU
I am hesitant to run him, just because he can be stolen and shut down some of the deck. Same reason I don't use Avacyn in my Indestructible Child of Alara list. Then again, the deck runs plenty of control and the lifegain isn't as important as some other Oloro lists. He really is a great card; Indestructible Greed (at a higher cost), and keeps lifegain in check since we aren't planning on any combo or commander damage to win outright.