(thanks for the link on the first page, I responded in that other guys thread lol.)
I'm glad to see you back on the monoblack side of things! The super detailed explanations are awesome to me but I love reading forums. I assume people skip all my card choices and just look at the decklist but I'm still a huge fan of stuff like that. I would say you should go for it if you have the passion to.
My test list (running Slum Reaper instead of Reanimate) for XHD dun right now has an average CMC of 3.7 and I would like to try and lower it some. Any suggestions are welcome, but I want you opinion on Gilded Lotus vs Worn Powerstone. Powestone costs less mana but doesn't tap for black and cannot be used the turn it is cast. Thats pretty much all I got... All the little changes could add up to reduce the curve though.
Thran Dynamo should probably be added to that consideration.
Gilded Lotus concerns me because it's simply such an easy and tempting target. You never go wrong killing a lotus.
Another concern of mine is that my deck runs a low land count, and counts on artifacts to get going. This means that I want most of my rocks to cost 3 or less. However, this is running into a conflict currently. As I lower my curve, I want to dedicate less of the early turns to ramp rocks, and actually play some stuff. I think this means I may balance a bit more towards lands as I go through my Chainer list.
I think I would personally run towards Worn Powerstone first, as the 3 drop lets it power out on turn 3 to put us more in-line with ramp players, and I also feel the deck runs enough swamps to handle the colored requirements, while other decks will often have to consider a higher amount of colorless producing lands when make this decision.
===
How has Slum Reaper been so far? Fleshbag Marauder has been great value to me, but he often sacs himself, so I don't know how much I care for the extra power. Does the 1 extra cost make a noticeable difference?
I honestly don't think mana rocks are all that good in monoblack. You need some to keep up with the pace of the game but we cant really sacrifice card quality to try and impersonate green. We have a really strong late game mana base due to being mono-colored. BUG or WUG get to run ramp spells that can be turned into card advantage via Birthing Pod or Skullclamp. We can't really do that so we can't run as mana as we might like. I agree that more lands and less rocks is the way to go.
All of them (except for Lotus which I'm cutting now) have an impact of the early turns of a game and don't slow me down early.
Slum Reaper is pretty meh. I think its a good card and the mana cost isn't a big deal around my metagame. Its not spectacular but its on theme with most black decks. If you have a lot of tokens decks running around then it gets bad and so does Fleshbag.
If you're running crucible of worlds, it might pay to check out lake of the dead, it is such a powerhouse - especially late in the game when you have plenty of land out to sac.
I honestly don't think mana rocks are all that good in monoblack. You need some to keep up with the pace of the game but we cant really sacrifice card quality to try and impersonate green. We have a really strong late game mana base due to being mono-colored. BUG or WUG get to run ramp spells that can be turned into card advantage via Birthing Pod or Skullclamp. We can't really do that so we can't run as mana as we might like. I agree that more lands and less rocks is the way to go.
All of them (except for Lotus which I'm cutting now) have an impact of the early turns of a game and don't slow me down early.
Slum Reaper is pretty meh. I think its a good card and the mana cost isn't a big deal around my metagame. Its not spectacular but its on theme with most black decks. If you have a lot of tokens decks running around then it gets bad and so does Fleshbag.
Tokens are happily answered by Massacre or Kagemaro though. I think I'll enjoy myself a fleshbag #2 for when I need a 1 hit 1 kill situation.
Trying to keep even with a Green player with rocks alone is a losing battle. What you need the rocks for is to power through those first few turns to get the doublers and draw engines online, so you can hold even or hold off until you build your swamp count. I'm starting to think that black decks are the ones hurt worst by mass LD. It has the same ramp pace as red, but the swamp numbers are much more critical, and red has a better love affair with artifacts.
If you're running crucible of worlds, it might pay to check out lake of the dead, it is such a powerhouse - especially late in the game when you have plenty of land out to sac.
While I do like me some lake of the dead, I'm not really feeling it. I'd rather ramp up the mana doublers et al, or even try and get a dark realms online. It's definitely worth mentioning though, and I should definitely add it to the list of things to discuss.
Well mass land destruction isn't played around here so I've never really had a problem with it. I can imagine it would be a problem for monoblack decks.
I've recently traded for a Kagemaro and a Massacre Wurm. I want to get them into my deck but I don't know what to cut.
Well mass land destruction isn't played around here so I've never really had a problem with it. I can imagine it would be a problem for monoblack decks.
I've recently traded for a Kagemaro and a Massacre Wurm. I want to get them into my deck but I don't know what to cut.
Mass LD isn't played much in my area either, but it has happened once or twice, and I've been left in the shallow end of the pool. And someone had an 'accident' there.
My over-reliance on rocks has also hurt me though, as an impromptu O-Stone set me back to square one as well.
What hurts most is that I was the one to nuke the O-stone, in a desperation move. I went from 10 mana to 5, while other players were on 10+ or 15+ each.
Why not try and run a smaller number of mana rocks? Maybe cut two for early spells. Do you have a current deck anywhere? I get a little confused sometimes as to which list your playing..
I've been liking my cheap draw spells in Night's Whisper and Sign in Blood. They seem too weak but they are good at helping make sure you hit your land drops. In a deck like mono black that can often translate into ramp due to mana doublers.
I've been liking my cheap draw spells in Night's Whisper and Sign in Blood. They seem to week but they are good at helping make sure you hit your land drops. In a deck like mono black that can often translate into ramp due to mana doublers.
I'll second this. I used to run both in my deck and they were awesome early in the game. I've recently cut Night's Whisper but I still run Sign in Blood.
Why not try and run a smaller number of mana rocks? Maybe cut two for early spells. Do you have a current deck anywhere? I get a little confused sometimes as to which list your playing..
To take this a bit further, I see you have 35 land. I started at 35 land originally with Chainer, and never liked the consistancy of my land drops. I like running 37 lands for more consistant land drops. In a deck with cabal coffers, more lands generally have value over extra mana rocks. Also, what is your thought on planeswalkers? Liliana of the Dark Realm is a (potentially) reusable tutor for land that I have been looking at that could work in place of a mana rock.
To take this a bit further, I see you have 35 land. I started at 35 land originally with Chainer, and never liked the consistancy of my land drops. I like running 37 lands for more consistant land drops. In a deck with cabal coffers, more lands generally have value over extra mana rocks. Also, what is your thought on planeswalkers? Liliana of the Dark Realm is a (potentially) reusable tutor for land that I have been looking at that could work in place of a mana rock.
Yes, that land number is about what I was thinking about going up to. There are games which coast fine on 35 right now, but a few have burned me a bit much. I may even up to 38.
Dark Realms is the first PW I would add to the deck. I almost got one when she was in the 20-25 range. She's down to about 10 now, and I've started considering her again. Before just jumping and purchasing though, I figured I'd lay out my new deck and see if there's a slot she can easily take first. (A very darn good likeliness).
Once she makes it in, Diabolic Tutor easily becomes Dimir House Guard. I'm leaning towards a stronger 4 drop core of the deck.
Between lili of the dark, braids, smokestack, etc. I think I can tune up a strong 4 drop slot. Then, reanimation into a sac outlet makes a strong option in an emergency.
So far in my testing Liliana of the Dark Realms is amazing if you can protect her for a turn or two. Planeswalkers aren't that great if your board is empty and your opponents can get free swings at them but I run a few for the fun and they're strong if you board wipe frequently. She does a lot of small things so people don't notice her as a huge threat. She rules with Sense's Top or Scroll Rack. I've also won every game shes gone ultimate so thats a small plus.
I run 38 lands in my deck. I've thought about going down to 37 but I've tried to resist doing that. My mana feels pretty smooth so give it a try.
I'm surprised people let you get that far. If you manage to ultimate... Holy awesomesauce. If you don't, even tutoring up lands is an awesome CA benefit.
Slowly. Work got a bit in the way, so I moved the plan back from last weekend to this weekend. Probably right after game day.
I also started cleaning up my 'EDH' table, which had gotten covered up to 5 inches in cards in some areas, with the surface completely non-visible anymore. In doing so, I found a huge stack of cards I'd set aside long ago as potential options. Most are auto-cut, but there were a few interesting choices.
I too had issues with only 35 land, and I ended up bumping it up to 36 or 37 myself. Even with running 5-6 rocks, once they got caught in a wrath it was generally just bad news.
Figured I should record my Balthor before I change some of it. It'll also be interesting to see what changes I haven't captured, and how bad I messed up my curve with single shot changes.
Starred entries are closely considered for cutting, depending on function and incoming new cards. It's by no mean definite, some starred may stay, some non-starred may leave.
I will be upping the land count to 38. I'm never unhappy of having more mana. I also want more draw, and may be trying out trading post. If I do, Solemn may replace another 4 drop.
Braids, Kokusho, and Kuon all want in. I have misplaced my Smokestack, so that may hold off a bit, though it would be nice with Trading Post.
Trading Post - I have high expectations of this card. No ability is unwanted in this deck. Even the lifegain, on a discard outlet, is a happy addition to the team, and I'm certain that's the weakest and most infrequent of the abilities we'll be using.
I've left Balthor in the list for now, as I like having a mass rez effect at my fingertips, though he may later get cut if I feel it's not a needed effect.
Notable Omissions that I want to be running, but need to make a cut. Dimir House Guard - I didn't find him in my cards. In his place, I am testing Nightmare Lash. When I find one, I'd like to keep the lash in, since he can tutor it, so I can test them in tandem for a bit. If anyone has a suggestion for removal, I'd appreciate input. In the end, I believe I will find the equipment to be... lacking,... in this deck. Necropotence - I still think this card is legalized cheating. It may make it back in, but Underworld Connections has a much cooler vibe to it right now. Faceless Butcher - I want this card in the list. Especially once I up the sac outlets. Bant gets their blink shenanigans, I'd be happy to give them a taste of it... Witchbane Orb - A recent discussion makes me want to really try this. I don't know what to cut. Myr Battlesphere - With Post and Chainer, looks like a solid beat, and it makes disposable clampable tokens for the Stax, clamp, or post. Harvestor of Souls - Great to rez in front of a wrath. I still want space for him. The tutor demon may need to make room, but reusable tutors are so hard to put aside. That said, I like the idea of moving tutor-less, to shift up games a bit.
Those two and Rune-scarred Demon are fighting for that slot, I think. Spawning Pit - No excuses. It seems like 100 cards doesn't stretch as far anymore... - Just cut Orrery for it. Sad days are here, but I knew this one was coming. I still thing it's a powerful effect, but with Chainer's ability at instant speed already using mana, and no balthor to flash in for the massive rez, it's a bit... space-taking. It's saved several games for me, so I'll need to be more proactive about tutoring for Winding Canyons.
Some other cards I've had on the side for ages, for reference:
The new list looks great. I'm very interested in Underworld Connections and Trading Post. I thought about running connections when it was first spoiled but I never gave it a chance. You had high hopes for Trading Post and I assume it played well?
I'm jealous of your curve and all those sac-outlets.
The new list looks great. I'm very interested in Underworld Connections and Trading Post. I thought about running connections when it was first spoiled but I never gave it a chance. You had high hopes for Trading Post and I assume it played well?
I'm jealous of your curve and all those sac-outlets.
I'll let you know about post after this week. It's still a fresh addition, so it's working through it.
Have you thought at all about going snow-covered swamps? With Extraplanar Lens you have a much lower chance of helping your opponents out. They are also uber cool and allow you to play Scrying Sheets which is a great ramp land.
Have you thought at all about going snow-covered swamps? With Extraplanar Lens you have a much lower chance of helping your opponents out. They are also uber cool and allow you to play Scrying Sheets which is a great ramp land.
Snow-covered lands: I don't think I have enough to fully complete my mana base. Also, I'm currently using Unhinged full art swamps (mostly, I didn't have enough of those either -_-), so I rather like the bling. As far as helping opponents out, I've actually had a bigger issue with Gauntlet of Power one Urborg is out. I probably should make the switch, but I'll give it a bit of thought.
I've also been under-impressed by Scrying Sheets in other decks of mine, though this one may be where it can fit the bill.
Kuon, Ogre Ascendant - I've just added him, so I'll update you guys as I learn more. Still very upset that my Smokestack is missing.
Nether Traitor is certainly the weaker self-recurring creature, but he still has a fair amount of synergy with the stax and clamp route. Yu may be right though, I'll keep a closer eye on him in my games, and see if he's really pulling his weight.
Decklist is on front page now, so I need to fix all that card option-y stuff, I'm slowly editing bits and parts of the OP, so some of it may be a bit disconnected right now.
I did update the deck-stats image though to reflect the new curve.
I love that 4-drop slot. Black has some awesome stuff on the 4-slot.
I am kind of suprised to see both your and Bob's deck are containing Extraplanar Lens. People in my group were using it for a while but it seems the moment a deck like mono black or Omnath casts it, it is disenchanted, and you're down a land.
Do you guys just drop it ASAP hope for a good half dozen turns with it and go, or is their some strategery I am missing?
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I am kind of suprised to see both your and Bob's deck are containing Extraplanar Lens. People in my group were using it for a while but it seems the moment a deck like mono black or Omnath casts it, it is disenchanted, and you're down a land.
Do you guys just drop it ASAP hope for a good half dozen turns with it and go, or is their some strategery I am missing?
That is the reason I don't run it... But a lot of players seem to like it. I tested it online for a while but I found it to be a bigger gamble then most of the mana doublers.
I'm glad to see you back on the monoblack side of things! The super detailed explanations are awesome to me but I love reading forums. I assume people skip all my card choices and just look at the decklist but I'm still a huge fan of stuff like that. I would say you should go for it if you have the passion to.
My test list (running Slum Reaper instead of Reanimate) for XHD dun right now has an average CMC of 3.7 and I would like to try and lower it some. Any suggestions are welcome, but I want you opinion on Gilded Lotus vs Worn Powerstone. Powestone costs less mana but doesn't tap for black and cannot be used the turn it is cast. Thats pretty much all I got... All the little changes could add up to reduce the curve though.
GWUBAtraxa, Praetor's Voice PrimerGWUB
GWURoon Bant Blink WhateverGWU
BRGLord Windgrace LandsBRG
Gilded Lotus concerns me because it's simply such an easy and tempting target. You never go wrong killing a lotus.
Another concern of mine is that my deck runs a low land count, and counts on artifacts to get going. This means that I want most of my rocks to cost 3 or less. However, this is running into a conflict currently. As I lower my curve, I want to dedicate less of the early turns to ramp rocks, and actually play some stuff. I think this means I may balance a bit more towards lands as I go through my Chainer list.
I think I would personally run towards Worn Powerstone first, as the 3 drop lets it power out on turn 3 to put us more in-line with ramp players, and I also feel the deck runs enough swamps to handle the colored requirements, while other decks will often have to consider a higher amount of colorless producing lands when make this decision.
===
How has Slum Reaper been so far? Fleshbag Marauder has been great value to me, but he often sacs himself, so I don't know how much I care for the extra power. Does the 1 extra cost make a noticeable difference?
Retired EDH - Tibor and Lumia | [PR]Nemata |Ramirez dePietro | [C]Edric | Riku | Jenara | Lazav | Heliod | Daxos | Roon | Kozilek
I currently run Expedition Map, Sol Ring, Mana Crypt, Wayfarer's Bauble and Gilded Lotus.
All of them (except for Lotus which I'm cutting now) have an impact of the early turns of a game and don't slow me down early.
Slum Reaper is pretty meh. I think its a good card and the mana cost isn't a big deal around my metagame. Its not spectacular but its on theme with most black decks. If you have a lot of tokens decks running around then it gets bad and so does Fleshbag.
GWUBAtraxa, Praetor's Voice PrimerGWUB
GWURoon Bant Blink WhateverGWU
BRGLord Windgrace LandsBRG
Tokens are happily answered by Massacre or Kagemaro though. I think I'll enjoy myself a fleshbag #2 for when I need a 1 hit 1 kill situation.
Trying to keep even with a Green player with rocks alone is a losing battle. What you need the rocks for is to power through those first few turns to get the doublers and draw engines online, so you can hold even or hold off until you build your swamp count. I'm starting to think that black decks are the ones hurt worst by mass LD. It has the same ramp pace as red, but the swamp numbers are much more critical, and red has a better love affair with artifacts.
While I do like me some lake of the dead, I'm not really feeling it. I'd rather ramp up the mana doublers et al, or even try and get a dark realms online. It's definitely worth mentioning though, and I should definitely add it to the list of things to discuss.
Retired EDH - Tibor and Lumia | [PR]Nemata |Ramirez dePietro | [C]Edric | Riku | Jenara | Lazav | Heliod | Daxos | Roon | Kozilek
I've recently traded for a Kagemaro and a Massacre Wurm. I want to get them into my deck but I don't know what to cut.
GWUBAtraxa, Praetor's Voice PrimerGWUB
GWURoon Bant Blink WhateverGWU
BRGLord Windgrace LandsBRG
Mass LD isn't played much in my area either, but it has happened once or twice, and I've been left in the shallow end of the pool. And someone had an 'accident' there.
My over-reliance on rocks has also hurt me though, as an impromptu O-Stone set me back to square one as well.
What hurts most is that I was the one to nuke the O-stone, in a desperation move. I went from 10 mana to 5, while other players were on 10+ or 15+ each.
Retired EDH - Tibor and Lumia | [PR]Nemata |Ramirez dePietro | [C]Edric | Riku | Jenara | Lazav | Heliod | Daxos | Roon | Kozilek
GWUBAtraxa, Praetor's Voice PrimerGWUB
GWURoon Bant Blink WhateverGWU
BRGLord Windgrace LandsBRG
I'll second this. I used to run both in my deck and they were awesome early in the game. I've recently cut Night's Whisper but I still run Sign in Blood.
GWUBAtraxa, Praetor's Voice PrimerGWUB
GWURoon Bant Blink WhateverGWU
BRGLord Windgrace LandsBRG
To take this a bit further, I see you have 35 land. I started at 35 land originally with Chainer, and never liked the consistancy of my land drops. I like running 37 lands for more consistant land drops. In a deck with cabal coffers, more lands generally have value over extra mana rocks. Also, what is your thought on planeswalkers? Liliana of the Dark Realm is a (potentially) reusable tutor for land that I have been looking at that could work in place of a mana rock.
G Azusa, Lost but Seeking G
WU Grand Arbiter Augustin IV WU
WBG Karador, Ghost Chieftan WBG
B Korlash, Heir to Blackblade B
RU Tibor and Lumia RU
'He tasks me! He tasks me, and I shall have him!' - Khan Noonien Singh
Yes, that land number is about what I was thinking about going up to. There are games which coast fine on 35 right now, but a few have burned me a bit much. I may even up to 38.
Dark Realms is the first PW I would add to the deck. I almost got one when she was in the 20-25 range. She's down to about 10 now, and I've started considering her again. Before just jumping and purchasing though, I figured I'd lay out my new deck and see if there's a slot she can easily take first. (A very darn good likeliness).
Once she makes it in, Diabolic Tutor easily becomes Dimir House Guard. I'm leaning towards a stronger 4 drop core of the deck.
Between lili of the dark, braids, smokestack, etc. I think I can tune up a strong 4 drop slot. Then, reanimation into a sac outlet makes a strong option in an emergency.
Retired EDH - Tibor and Lumia | [PR]Nemata |Ramirez dePietro | [C]Edric | Riku | Jenara | Lazav | Heliod | Daxos | Roon | Kozilek
I run 38 lands in my deck. I've thought about going down to 37 but I've tried to resist doing that. My mana feels pretty smooth so give it a try.
GWUBAtraxa, Praetor's Voice PrimerGWUB
GWURoon Bant Blink WhateverGWU
BRGLord Windgrace LandsBRG
Retired EDH - Tibor and Lumia | [PR]Nemata |Ramirez dePietro | [C]Edric | Riku | Jenara | Lazav | Heliod | Daxos | Roon | Kozilek
G Azusa, Lost but Seeking G
WU Grand Arbiter Augustin IV WU
WBG Karador, Ghost Chieftan WBG
B Korlash, Heir to Blackblade B
RU Tibor and Lumia RU
'He tasks me! He tasks me, and I shall have him!' - Khan Noonien Singh
I also started cleaning up my 'EDH' table, which had gotten covered up to 5 inches in cards in some areas, with the surface completely non-visible anymore. In doing so, I found a huge stack of cards I'd set aside long ago as potential options. Most are auto-cut, but there were a few interesting choices.
I'll post some of those when I get back home.
Retired EDH - Tibor and Lumia | [PR]Nemata |Ramirez dePietro | [C]Edric | Riku | Jenara | Lazav | Heliod | Daxos | Roon | Kozilek
1 Balthor the Defiled
Creatures - 26
2 Blood Artist
2 Bloodghast
2 Disciple of Griselbrand
2 Nether Traitor
2 Nezumi Graverobber - *
2 Reassembling Skeletons
3 Dross Harvester
3 Fleshbag Marauder
3 Pawn of Ulamog
4 Bloodline Keeper
4 Disciple of Bolas
4 Falkenrath Noble
4 Graveborn Muse
4 Mindslicer
4 Skinrender - * probably the new fleshbag
4 Xiahou Dun, the one-eyed
5 Bloodgift Demon
5 Chainer, Dementia Master - Exchanges place with Balthor
5 Kagemaro, First to Suffer
6 Dread - * Wurmcoil Engine
6 Duplicant
6 Massacre Wurm
6 Mikaeus the Unhallowed - *
6 Nirkana Revenant
7 Butcher of Malakir - *
7 Rune-Scarred Demon
2 Bitterblossom
2 Oversold Cemetary - * Underworld Connections
3 Infernal Tribute
3 Mind Slash - *
3 Phyrexian Arena
4 Grave pact
4 Strands of Night
Instants - 2
1 Vampiric Tutor
4 Slaughter
Sorceries - 7
2 Demonic Tutor
3 Yawgmoth's Will
4 Diabolic Tutor - *
4 Dread Return - *
5 Beacon of Unrest
5 Living Death
6 Beseech the Queen
Aritfacts - 11
1 Nihil Spellbomb
1 Scrabbling CLaws
1 Skullclamp
3 Crucible of Worlds
3 Oblivion Stone
3 Rings of Brighthearth
3 Sword of Light and Shadow - *
4 Vedalken Orrery
3 Extraplanar Lens
5 Gauntlet of Power
6 Caged Sun
0 Everflowing Chalice
1 Sol Ring
1 Wayfarer's Bauble
2 Charcoal Diamond
2 Star Compass
3 Coalition Relic
3 Darkstee Ingot
3 Pristine Talisman
3 Skull of Ramos
Planeswalkers - 1
7 Karn Liberated - * Spine of Ish Sah?
Land - 36
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Buried Ruin
1 Cabal Coffers
1 Deserted Temple - * infinites
1 High Market
1 Marsh Flats
1 Petrified Field
1 Phyrexian Tower
1 Polluted Delta
1 Shizo, Death's Storehouse - * I need to re-count how many legendaries I will run
1 Temple of the False god
1 Terrain Generator
1 Thawing Glaciers
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1 Verdant Catacmbs
1 Vesuva
1 Volrath's Stronghold - * I've actually never activated it...
1 Winding Canyons
18 swamp
Starred entries are closely considered for cutting, depending on function and incoming new cards. It's by no mean definite, some starred may stay, some non-starred may leave.
I will be upping the land count to 38. I'm never unhappy of having more mana. I also want more draw, and may be trying out trading post. If I do, Solemn may replace another 4 drop.
Braids, Kokusho, and Kuon all want in. I have misplaced my Smokestack, so that may hold off a bit, though it would be nice with Trading Post.
Trading Post - I have high expectations of this card. No ability is unwanted in this deck. Even the lifegain, on a discard outlet, is a happy addition to the team, and I'm certain that's the weakest and most infrequent of the abilities we'll be using.
Retired EDH - Tibor and Lumia | [PR]Nemata |Ramirez dePietro | [C]Edric | Riku | Jenara | Lazav | Heliod | Daxos | Roon | Kozilek
1 Dread Return - rarely cast it, never flashed it back
1 Mind Slash - not terribly needed in my meta, I want more speed instead
1 Beacon of unrest - A bit on the expensive side
1 Everflowing Chalice - Adaptable, but simply good
1 Strands of Night - By the time it's relevant, Chainer does it better
1 Nezumi GraveRobber - targeted GY culling is less needed in Chainer
1 Skinrender - Always felt a bit... short.
1 Dread - Failed experiment
1 Mikaeus, the Unhallowed - Don't want undying on stolen creatures.
1 Butcher of Malakir - Expensive
1 Oversold Cemetery - Never online soon enough
1 Spine of Ish Sah
1 Altar of Dementia
1 Lashwrithe
1 Wurmcoile Engine
1 Braids, Cabal Minion
1 Underwold Connections
1 Slum Reaper
1 Magus of the Abyss
1 Kuon, Ogre AScendant
1 Solemn Simulacrum
1 Sangromancer
1 Kokusho, the Evening Star
I've left Balthor in the list for now, as I like having a mass rez effect at my fingertips, though he may later get cut if I feel it's not a needed effect.
Overall, the new list looks a little like this:
5 Chainer, Dementia Master
Creatures - 29
2 Blood Artist
2 Bloodghast
2 Disciple of Griselbrand
2 Nether Traitor
2 Reassembling Skeletons
3 Dross Harvestor
3 Fleshbag Marauder
3 Kuon, Ogre Ascendant
3 Pawn of Ulamog
4 Balthor the Defiled
4 Bloodline Keeper - * do I still need the tokens?
4 Braids, Cabal Minion
4 Disciple of Bolas
4 Falkenrath Noble
4 Graveborn Muse
4 Magus of the Abyss
4 Mindslicer
4 Sangromancer
4 Slum Reaper
4 Solemn Simulacrum
4 Xiahou Dun, the One-Eyed
5 Bloodgift Demon
5 Kagemaro, First to suffer
6 Duplicant
6 Kokusho, the Evening Star
6 Massacre Wurm
6 Nirkana Revenant
6 Wurmcoil Engine
7 Rune-Scarred Demon - *Tutor, or draw? See below.
Enchantment - 5
2 Bitterblossom
3 Infernal Tribute
3 Phyrexian Arena
3 Underworld Connections
4 Grave Pact
1 Vampiric Tutor
4 Slaughter
Sorcery - 4
2 Demonic Tutor
3 Yawgmoth's will
5 Living Death
6 Beseech the Queen
Artifact - 14
1 Nihil Spellbomb
1 Scrabbling Claws
1 Skullclamp
2 Altar of Dementia
2 Spawning Pit
3 Crucible of Worlds
3 Oblivion Stone
3 Rings of Brighthearth
4 Trading Post
4 Lashwrithe
7 Spine of Ish Sah
3 Extraplanar Lens
5 Gauntlet of Power
6 Caged Sun
Mana Rocks - 6
0 Mana crypt
1 Sol Ring
1 Wayfarer's Bauble
3 Darksteel Ingot
3 Pristine Talisman
3 Skull of Ramos
Planeswalkers - 1
4 Liliana of the Dark Realms
---------
LAND - 38
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Buried Ruin
1 Cabal Coffers
1 High Market
1 Marsh Flats
1 Petrified Field
1 Phyrexian Tower
1 Polluted Delta
1 Shizo, Death's Storehouse
1 Temple of the False god
1 Terrain Generator
1 Thawing Glaciers
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1 Verdant Catacmbs
1 Vesuva
1 Winding Canyons
22 swamp
Notable Omissions that I want to be running, but need to make a cut.
Dimir House Guard - I didn't find him in my cards. In his place, I am testing Nightmare Lash. When I find one, I'd like to keep the lash in, since he can tutor it, so I can test them in tandem for a bit. If anyone has a suggestion for removal, I'd appreciate input. In the end, I believe I will find the equipment to be... lacking,... in this deck.
Necropotence - I still think this card is legalized cheating. It may make it back in, but Underworld Connections has a much cooler vibe to it right now.
Faceless Butcher - I want this card in the list. Especially once I up the sac outlets. Bant gets their blink shenanigans, I'd be happy to give them a taste of it...
Witchbane Orb - A recent discussion makes me want to really try this. I don't know what to cut.
Myr Battlesphere - With Post and Chainer, looks like a solid beat, and it makes disposable clampable tokens for the Stax, clamp, or post.
Harvestor of Souls - Great to rez in front of a wrath. I still want space for him. The tutor demon may need to make room, but reusable tutors are so hard to put aside. That said, I like the idea of moving tutor-less, to shift up games a bit.
Those two and Rune-scarred Demon are fighting for that slot, I think.
Spawning Pit - No excuses. It seems like 100 cards doesn't stretch as far anymore...- Just cut Orrery for it. Sad days are here, but I knew this one was coming. I still thing it's a powerful effect, but with Chainer's ability at instant speed already using mana, and no balthor to flash in for the massive rez, it's a bit... space-taking. It's saved several games for me, so I'll need to be more proactive about tutoring for Winding Canyons.Some other cards I've had on the side for ages, for reference:
Jar of eyeballs - eh? EH? Come on!
Batterskull - Over Nightmare lash. Both will get the job done with Commander damage, if need be, but Batterskull is more resilient and has better lasting value in this deck. Gaining life is good. It means I can get more cards.
Staff of Nin - I like having more arenas. And you know what, stapling a pea shooter to it to take out little utility guys, is actually pretty darn cool in edh.
Phyrexian Reclamation - XHD's bread and butter, I don't see myself using it much.
Sign in Blood and variants - I considered these, I really did. No one like cheap cantrippy card draw more than me. But the life loss, or creature sac included on it put me off of it. Honestly, it's just not worth it. I would rather run more cantrippy artifacts to thin my deck out more, because then I could use a salvaging engine with it, which would be pretty cool with post as well.
Hell's Caretaker
Bone SHredder - Still just not making it in for me.
Mimic Vat - used it before. Not impressed.
Sudden Death, Undying Evil, Tragic Slip, Tainted Strike (boring!), Geth, Lord of the Vault, Syphon Flesh, Syphon Mind, Tortured Existence, Carnage Altar, Nekrataal, Buried ALive, Golgari Thug, Dark Hatchling, Withered Wretch, Nightshade Assassin, Vampire Nighthawk, Vampire Hexmage, Dead Reckoning, Exsanguinate, Death Cloud, Hellfire, Rain of Daggers.
Yeah. Bed time.
Retired EDH - Tibor and Lumia | [PR]Nemata |Ramirez dePietro | [C]Edric | Riku | Jenara | Lazav | Heliod | Daxos | Roon | Kozilek
I'm jealous of your curve and all those sac-outlets.
GWUBAtraxa, Praetor's Voice PrimerGWUB
GWURoon Bant Blink WhateverGWU
BRGLord Windgrace LandsBRG
I'll let you know about post after this week. It's still a fresh addition, so it's working through it.
Retired EDH - Tibor and Lumia | [PR]Nemata |Ramirez dePietro | [C]Edric | Riku | Jenara | Lazav | Heliod | Daxos | Roon | Kozilek
Also, how do you like Kuon, Ogre Ascendant and Nether Traitor. Kuon, Ogre Ascendant seems like it could be a decent pseudo braids that comes down early. After I removed Lashwrithe, I never really found mysef wanting to use Nether Traitor, he's the weakest of the self-returning creatures for sure.
G Azusa, Lost but Seeking G
WU Grand Arbiter Augustin IV WU
WBG Karador, Ghost Chieftan WBG
B Korlash, Heir to Blackblade B
RU Tibor and Lumia RU
'He tasks me! He tasks me, and I shall have him!' - Khan Noonien Singh
Snow-covered lands: I don't think I have enough to fully complete my mana base. Also, I'm currently using Unhinged full art swamps (mostly, I didn't have enough of those either -_-), so I rather like the bling. As far as helping opponents out, I've actually had a bigger issue with Gauntlet of Power one Urborg is out. I probably should make the switch, but I'll give it a bit of thought.
I've also been under-impressed by Scrying Sheets in other decks of mine, though this one may be where it can fit the bill.
Kuon, Ogre Ascendant - I've just added him, so I'll update you guys as I learn more. Still very upset that my Smokestack is missing.
Nether Traitor is certainly the weaker self-recurring creature, but he still has a fair amount of synergy with the stax and clamp route. Yu may be right though, I'll keep a closer eye on him in my games, and see if he's really pulling his weight.
Decklist is on front page now, so I need to fix all that card option-y stuff, I'm slowly editing bits and parts of the OP, so some of it may be a bit disconnected right now.
I did update the deck-stats image though to reflect the new curve.
I love that 4-drop slot. Black has some awesome stuff on the 4-slot.
Retired EDH - Tibor and Lumia | [PR]Nemata |Ramirez dePietro | [C]Edric | Riku | Jenara | Lazav | Heliod | Daxos | Roon | Kozilek
I am kind of suprised to see both your and Bob's deck are containing Extraplanar Lens. People in my group were using it for a while but it seems the moment a deck like mono black or Omnath casts it, it is disenchanted, and you're down a land.
Do you guys just drop it ASAP hope for a good half dozen turns with it and go, or is their some strategery I am missing?
Gitrog Lands
Merieke Ri Berit Flicker
Ramos, Dragon Engine Storm
That is the reason I don't run it... But a lot of players seem to like it. I tested it online for a while but I found it to be a bigger gamble then most of the mana doublers.
GWUBAtraxa, Praetor's Voice PrimerGWUB
GWURoon Bant Blink WhateverGWU
BRGLord Windgrace LandsBRG