Wait... you're RTFC, right? Both of Selesnya Guildmage's abilities cost 4, but Vitu-Ghazi Guildmage's abilities are 6 and 4, respectively. The latter depends on having another creature out, which is arguably weaker in a format laden with sweepers. Most of the time you'd just be populating a saproling anyways given the rest of the list. And I think you're severely underestimating Selesnya Guildmage's overrun ability. Heck, I'd run Sunhome Guildmage over Vitu-Ghazi Guildmage in a vacuum.
Herp my bad for whatever reason I keep thinking that the first ability is 3 and the second is 5.... I guess my stress is getting to me Ehh i still think i would use the Vitu mostly because it can replicate any token and it appears that this Rith deck has quite a few decently sized tokens that can be replicated.
I guess I should look at the cards and read carefully especially when arguing a point
I like the deck list a lot, ive been thinking of making a naya token deck for a while, and i think ill use this primer to assist me!
What do you think of five-alarm fire, im not sure if it's too slow for your list or not, but if your swarm gets in combat (with a player or a creature) you get a blaze counter, then you can lava axe to your hearts desire! Gets even more deadly with doubling season out!
Keep up the good work!
edit: when do you think you will update the list with the cuts your mentioned in previous post? eg.: +academy rector, - sarkan vol
I like the deck list a lot, ive been thinking of making a naya token deck for a while, and i think ill use this primer to assist me!
What do you think of five-alarm fire, im not sure if it's too slow for your list or not, but if your swarm gets in combat (with a player or a creature) you get a blaze counter, then you can lava axe to your hearts desire! Gets even more deadly with doubling season out!
Keep up the good work!
edit: when do you think you will update the list with the cuts your mentioned in previous post? eg.: +academy rector, - sarkan vol
And thanks glad you like the deck, I will try and have the most up to date version posted by this Sunday, I should have time after game day to write it up.
Increasing Devotion is a pretty nice way to recover from a wrath but outside of that it felt lack luster to me most of the time
Never thought to use White Sun's Zenith or Mirror Entity but they both seem pretty strong, I'll see if I can test them next time I get to play
Odric, Master Tactician can be really good but I'm not sure what finisher I should trade out for.
Márton Stromgald, seems like he would run just like Shared Animosity with some bonuses and draw backs. Him giving a power and toughness boost is cool but he seems so much more fragile and a bit harder for me to bring back, without trying to fit in more of a recursion package. I'll see if I can get one to try out though
How do you feel about Rith as a general for a deck that isn't focused on tokens? Like zero tokens.. I need a naya general but I dislike Mayael and the legends ones are pretty lame.
How do you feel about Rith as a general for a deck that isn't focused on tokens? Like zero tokens.. I need a naya general but I dislike Mayael and the legends ones are pretty lame.
I think Rith would still be a decent threat, I've had plenty of games where minus land I have nothing on the board and I've been able to get back up with just her. Being a 6/6 with flying she a decent threat and can be made better with equipment. Also the token made by her effect are amazing at chump blocking if for nothing else.
In other news I have finally updated my deck lists with the following changes
Reasons for the new includes, minus the changes to the land base Assemble the Legion - More and more tokens every turn and they can swing right off the bat, never been sad to see it White Sun's Zenith - a tad expensive to cast but instant speed token generation can be insanley useful. Academy Rector - being able to get an enchantment from the deck into play is awesome Chromatic Lantern - perfect color fixing and can also make mana itself Crop Rotation - can help fix colors or grab a utility land Fecundity - you'll be able to use it far more often than everyone else can Vicious Shadows - makes people reconsider board wipes and lets you pull the trigger if you have a sac outlet
Quick update, I'm testing an Eladamri's Call I picked in place of Congregation at Dawn. Both games I saw it in I was much happy pulling one creature to my hand instead of three to the top. I really like both but with a player in my meta now having a Lazav, Dimir Mastermind deck, I feel much safer with call.
White Sun's Zenith has also been pretty sweet, one game got it for 8 with Parallel Lives out at the end of my last opponents turn, after he dropped Damnation, and on my turn played Shared Animosity. I only wish it would stop getting milled so I could play it more often.
Also Gaea's Cradle being as insane as it is has got me wondering if I should find room for Knight of the Reliquary, but I'm not sure on what to swap out to try it.
This equipment has worked out very well for me. It turns Rith into a three hit general. It finds answers to almost any situation provided you run the instants to power it, which it seems like you do for the most part. Of course, this is kind of a meta specific choice for me because my playgroup goes infinite often or has game breaking cards that needs to be eliminated as soon as they ETB.
Also, Chaos Warp has been pretty clutch for me too in a lot of situations. Yeah, they might draw into something insane, but their infinite is disassembled or that planeswalker that's about to go nuts gets ranched.
List looks insane btw.
Private Mod Note
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Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
:symg:Kamahl, Fist of Krosa:symg:
:symw::symu:GAAIV:symu::symw:
:symr:Godo, Bandit Warlord(wip):symr:
This equipment has worked out very well for me. It turns Rith into a three hit general. It finds answers to almost any situation provided you run the instants to power it, which it seems like you do for the most part. Of course, this is kind of a meta specific choice for me because my playgroup goes infinite often or has game breaking cards that needs to be eliminated as soon as they ETB.
Also, Chaos Warp has been pretty clutch for me too in a lot of situations. Yeah, they might draw into something insane, but their infinite is disassembled or that planeswalker that's about to go nuts gets ranched.
List looks insane btw.
Thanks glad you enjoy it, and Sunforger is an amazingly strong card, however my meta is pretty though on it. I might trying bringing it in since I can grab,
Copying Rith's trigger could pump out a huge number of tokens. With 5 green permanents on the board you'd get 5 off the first trigger and 10 off the copy, or with Doubling Season/Parallel Lives you'd get 10 then 30, all for 4G.
What would you take out the resonator for? And what do emeria angel Jade mage and requiem angel do for you? They're always not that good for me.
Emeria Angel is a card I was actually considering cutting, might just try the resonator in her place and see how the deck runs with one less token engine. She isn't bad but she is kinda slow over all for the tokens she gives you, might work better if my meta used more flyers.
Jade mage is a card I am almost always happy to see. It's really nice to have a low drop creature generator that can be used as many times as I have mana for. At worst you can drop her turn 2 and pump a token out which can help curve early aggro away from you. Later in the game she can be a huge advantage engine with cards like Skullclamp, Aura Shards and Cathars' Crusade. She can also be pulled back with Sun Titan.
Requiem Angel can be really situational but it's strongest point for me is how much of a rattlesnake it is for most boardwipes. However on an empty board without protection it usally just eats removal right away. It is one of the few cards that can put you ahead when the field gets wiped and all your tokens get killed, even better the only spirit tokens this deck can make come from her. However if you want to have a backup plan for all your tokens dying anand your not fond of the angel Fresh Meat only works once but can be a lot more explosive.
Oh ok thanks makes more sense now. Also do you plan on putting things in to smooth your draw? Like top sylvan library or mirris guile?
I have thought about using Sensei's Divining Top but Mirri's Guile might work better, I'm so loaded on enchantments right now I'm considering using Replenish. Sylvan Library can be really good but I tend to overdo with paying life so I'd rather stick with top or guile.
Crystal Ball is also kinda nice, costs more to drop but can help filter without shuffle effects.
So what would you take out if you were to put some of those cards in?
Still tring to find room for one, currently I am testing it in Hour of Reckoning's spot but I'm not 100% sure I want to take out a wrath for filtering. I tried Mirri's Guile first but it was only so helpful, so now I am trying Crystal Ball. Almost everytime I used Mirri's Guile I left the order alone or only swapped the top two cards, so I'm thinkg Crystal Ball scyring might be stronger. Seems pretty nice to filter away things I don't need.
And you said you took out congregation at dawn for the call right?
Correct, I just updated the list today
Also another card I have been considering, after rereading through ISBPathfinder's and Enizzle's Everything Token Thread, is Nature's Will. Love the fact that I could bash the player holding counter spells and play a lot more unhindered for a turn and if I have a mana sync out it can provide even more benifit. I'll see if I can test it out this weekend.
On another note after reading the FAQ for m14 I am not as fond of Strionic Resonator. I didn't realize that for it to copy Rith's ability I would have to pay 2G twice and I have to keep the color choice I make with the initial trigger, would only matter if I wasn't going for green but that happens a decent amount of the time. So overall I would be better off with double strike than with the Resonator.
Wouldn't the resonator still work with a lot of other cards though? And I dont think you should cut another wrath effect those are too good when you're behind.
Wouldn't the resonator still work with a lot of other cards though? And I dont think you should cut another wrath effect those are too good when you're behind.
Resonator can still be a really good card but I'm not overly fond of the fact that it doesn't do anything on it's own and the biggest effect I thought it could copy isn't really worth, since it would cost 6GG and if Rith had double strike instead it would just cost 4GG plus would be more flexiable. Next couple games I play I will look at the board state and see how often it would benifit me having it.
As for the wrath effect I agree, I like having them a lot so I am still looking for another cut. However in my meta there is no srotage of wraths being played
Oh I forgot why isn't eternal witness in here? Seems good to have some recursion.
When I first started with the deck I didn't have one to use and I've never sorley needed it. While Eternal Witness is an extremly good card I'm not sure what I would cut to make room for it and I would pobably try and find room for Replenish before I tried to fit it in anyway.
Also after about 4 games I don't think Crystal Ball is right for this deck, it wasn't bad after I played it but the initial cost of 3 is higher than I want to pay for the effect. The 2 games with top weren't much better, might fit better in a verion that has more fetch lands and more ways to shuffle.
During the 6 games I got to play I keep note of how Strionic Resonator would've benifited me and in all but 1 game it would've either sat in my hand or on the field for most of the game without doing much. I never wanted to keep the mana open for the effect. The one game where I would've used it, it was more win more than something that I really needed. I think it can be amazing with the right cards but I don't think I am playing enough of those in this deck to make it worth it.
Next up is finding a slot to test Nature's Will, I still feel like it would be great to have against control but I'm not sure what to cut for it.
Next up is finding a slot to test Nature's Will, I still feel like it would be great to have against control but I'm not sure what to cut for it.
While testing, keep in mind that Nature's Will triggers on combat damage to an opponent, so in multiplayer it will trigger for each opponent hit, allowing for multiple untaps.
While testing, keep in mind that Nature's Will triggers on combat damage to an opponent, so in multiplayer it will trigger for each opponent hit, allowing for multiple untaps.
That is a good point, could get a lot a milage out of Selesnya Guildmage, Jade Mage, White Sun's Zenith and Gavony Township. I have one in the mail and currently I am thinking of testing it in Emeria Angel's spot. It's nice that the tokens she gives have flying but she is slower than most of the other tokens engines.
Herp my bad for whatever reason I keep thinking that the first ability is 3 and the second is 5.... I guess my stress is getting to me Ehh i still think i would use the Vitu mostly because it can replicate any token and it appears that this Rith deck has quite a few decently sized tokens that can be replicated.
I guess I should look at the cards and read carefully especially when arguing a point
Eight-and-a-Half-Tails, Faith & Wrath (Control)
Jarad, Life & Death (Reanimator)
Merieke, Seduction & Obedience (Control/Steals)
Intet, Dreamworld (Aggro/Control)
Rith, Predators (Aggro)
What do you think of five-alarm fire, im not sure if it's too slow for your list or not, but if your swarm gets in combat (with a player or a creature) you get a blaze counter, then you can lava axe to your hearts desire! Gets even more deadly with doubling season out!
Keep up the good work!
edit: when do you think you will update the list with the cuts your mentioned in previous post? eg.: +academy rector, - sarkan vol
Also Mirror Entity, Marton Stronmgald, and Odric, Master Tactician all seem like decent finishers. Have you considered them?
five-alarm fire seems like a fun card but I think it takes a little to much to get going, in most cases it would be easy to more damage from Beastmaster Ascension or from Shared Animosity.
And thanks glad you like the deck, I will try and have the most up to date version posted by this Sunday, I should have time after game day to write it up.
Increasing Devotion is a pretty nice way to recover from a wrath but outside of that it felt lack luster to me most of the time
Never thought to use White Sun's Zenith or Mirror Entity but they both seem pretty strong, I'll see if I can test them next time I get to play
Odric, Master Tactician can be really good but I'm not sure what finisher I should trade out for.
Márton Stromgald, seems like he would run just like Shared Animosity with some bonuses and draw backs. Him giving a power and toughness boost is cool but he seems so much more fragile and a bit harder for me to bring back, without trying to fit in more of a recursion package. I'll see if I can get one to try out though
RGW Rith, the Awakener
BRG Prossh, Skyraider of Kher
UBR Nicol Bolas
GWU Treva, the Renewer
RWU Numot, the Devastator
GWUBAtraxa, Praetor's Voice PrimerGWUB
GWURoon Bant Blink WhateverGWU
BRGLord Windgrace LandsBRG
I think Rith would still be a decent threat, I've had plenty of games where minus land I have nothing on the board and I've been able to get back up with just her. Being a 6/6 with flying she a decent threat and can be made better with equipment. Also the token made by her effect are amazing at chump blocking if for nothing else.
In other news I have finally updated my deck lists with the following changes
-Master of the Wild Hunt
-Furystoke Giant
-Woodfall Primus
-Perilous Forays
-Sarkhan Vol
-Comet Storm
-Forest
-Forest
-Mountain
-Plains
-Terramorphic Expanse
-Darksteel Ingot[/CARDS]
Reasons for the new includes, minus the changes to the land base
Assemble the Legion - More and more tokens every turn and they can swing right off the bat, never been sad to see it
White Sun's Zenith - a tad expensive to cast but instant speed token generation can be insanley useful.
Academy Rector - being able to get an enchantment from the deck into play is awesome
Chromatic Lantern - perfect color fixing and can also make mana itself
Crop Rotation - can help fix colors or grab a utility land
Fecundity - you'll be able to use it far more often than everyone else can
Vicious Shadows - makes people reconsider board wipes and lets you pull the trigger if you have a sac outlet
RGW Rith, the Awakener
BRG Prossh, Skyraider of Kher
UBR Nicol Bolas
GWU Treva, the Renewer
RWU Numot, the Devastator
White Sun's Zenith has also been pretty sweet, one game got it for 8 with Parallel Lives out at the end of my last opponents turn, after he dropped Damnation, and on my turn played Shared Animosity. I only wish it would stop getting milled so I could play it more often.
Also Gaea's Cradle being as insane as it is has got me wondering if I should find room for Knight of the Reliquary, but I'm not sure on what to swap out to try it.
RGW Rith, the Awakener
BRG Prossh, Skyraider of Kher
UBR Nicol Bolas
GWU Treva, the Renewer
RWU Numot, the Devastator
This equipment has worked out very well for me. It turns Rith into a three hit general. It finds answers to almost any situation provided you run the instants to power it, which it seems like you do for the most part. Of course, this is kind of a meta specific choice for me because my playgroup goes infinite often or has game breaking cards that needs to be eliminated as soon as they ETB.
Also, Chaos Warp has been pretty clutch for me too in a lot of situations. Yeah, they might draw into something insane, but their infinite is disassembled or that planeswalker that's about to go nuts gets ranched.
List looks insane btw.
:symw::symu:GAAIV:symu::symw:
:symr:Godo, Bandit Warlord(wip):symr:
Thanks glad you enjoy it, and Sunforger is an amazingly strong card, however my meta is pretty though on it. I might trying bringing it in since I can grab,
with it.
Also Chaos Warp seems really nice since it can answer anything, I think I'm going to swap out Sundering Growth for it for a bit
RGW Rith, the Awakener
BRG Prossh, Skyraider of Kher
UBR Nicol Bolas
GWU Treva, the Renewer
RWU Numot, the Devastator
Copying Rith's trigger could pump out a huge number of tokens. With 5 green permanents on the board you'd get 5 off the first trigger and 10 off the copy, or with Doubling Season/Parallel Lives you'd get 10 then 30, all for 4G.
Strionic Resonator also works with
With the stronger interactions being with Academy Rector, Sun Titan, Avenger of Zendikar and Assemble the Legion.
I will definitely be picking up a copy to test.
RGW Rith, the Awakener
BRG Prossh, Skyraider of Kher
UBR Nicol Bolas
GWU Treva, the Renewer
RWU Numot, the Devastator
Emeria Angel is a card I was actually considering cutting, might just try the resonator in her place and see how the deck runs with one less token engine. She isn't bad but she is kinda slow over all for the tokens she gives you, might work better if my meta used more flyers.
Jade mage is a card I am almost always happy to see. It's really nice to have a low drop creature generator that can be used as many times as I have mana for. At worst you can drop her turn 2 and pump a token out which can help curve early aggro away from you. Later in the game she can be a huge advantage engine with cards like Skullclamp, Aura Shards and Cathars' Crusade. She can also be pulled back with Sun Titan.
Requiem Angel can be really situational but it's strongest point for me is how much of a rattlesnake it is for most boardwipes. However on an empty board without protection it usally just eats removal right away. It is one of the few cards that can put you ahead when the field gets wiped and all your tokens get killed, even better the only spirit tokens this deck can make come from her. However if you want to have a backup plan for all your tokens dying anand your not fond of the angel Fresh Meat only works once but can be a lot more explosive.
RGW Rith, the Awakener
BRG Prossh, Skyraider of Kher
UBR Nicol Bolas
GWU Treva, the Renewer
RWU Numot, the Devastator
I have thought about using Sensei's Divining Top but Mirri's Guile might work better, I'm so loaded on enchantments right now I'm considering using Replenish. Sylvan Library can be really good but I tend to overdo with paying life so I'd rather stick with top or guile.
Crystal Ball is also kinda nice, costs more to drop but can help filter without shuffle effects.
RGW Rith, the Awakener
BRG Prossh, Skyraider of Kher
UBR Nicol Bolas
GWU Treva, the Renewer
RWU Numot, the Devastator
Still tring to find room for one, currently I am testing it in Hour of Reckoning's spot but I'm not 100% sure I want to take out a wrath for filtering. I tried Mirri's Guile first but it was only so helpful, so now I am trying Crystal Ball. Almost everytime I used Mirri's Guile I left the order alone or only swapped the top two cards, so I'm thinkg Crystal Ball scyring might be stronger. Seems pretty nice to filter away things I don't need.
Correct, I just updated the list today
Also another card I have been considering, after rereading through ISBPathfinder's and Enizzle's Everything Token Thread, is Nature's Will. Love the fact that I could bash the player holding counter spells and play a lot more unhindered for a turn and if I have a mana sync out it can provide even more benifit. I'll see if I can test it out this weekend.
RGW Rith, the Awakener
BRG Prossh, Skyraider of Kher
UBR Nicol Bolas
GWU Treva, the Renewer
RWU Numot, the Devastator
Thanks for the reminder, I will try and test Replenish this weekend to. Also yes austere command has put me back to square one before, just like Merciless Eviction
On another note after reading the FAQ for m14 I am not as fond of Strionic Resonator. I didn't realize that for it to copy Rith's ability I would have to pay 2G twice and I have to keep the color choice I make with the initial trigger, would only matter if I wasn't going for green but that happens a decent amount of the time. So overall I would be better off with double strike than with the Resonator.
RGW Rith, the Awakener
BRG Prossh, Skyraider of Kher
UBR Nicol Bolas
GWU Treva, the Renewer
RWU Numot, the Devastator
Resonator can still be a really good card but I'm not overly fond of the fact that it doesn't do anything on it's own and the biggest effect I thought it could copy isn't really worth, since it would cost 6GG and if Rith had double strike instead it would just cost 4GG plus would be more flexiable. Next couple games I play I will look at the board state and see how often it would benifit me having it.
As for the wrath effect I agree, I like having them a lot so I am still looking for another cut. However in my meta there is no srotage of wraths being played
RGW Rith, the Awakener
BRG Prossh, Skyraider of Kher
UBR Nicol Bolas
GWU Treva, the Renewer
RWU Numot, the Devastator
When I first started with the deck I didn't have one to use and I've never sorley needed it. While Eternal Witness is an extremly good card I'm not sure what I would cut to make room for it and I would pobably try and find room for Replenish before I tried to fit it in anyway.
Also after about 4 games I don't think Crystal Ball is right for this deck, it wasn't bad after I played it but the initial cost of 3 is higher than I want to pay for the effect. The 2 games with top weren't much better, might fit better in a verion that has more fetch lands and more ways to shuffle.
During the 6 games I got to play I keep note of how Strionic Resonator would've benifited me and in all but 1 game it would've either sat in my hand or on the field for most of the game without doing much. I never wanted to keep the mana open for the effect. The one game where I would've used it, it was more win more than something that I really needed. I think it can be amazing with the right cards but I don't think I am playing enough of those in this deck to make it worth it.
Next up is finding a slot to test Nature's Will, I still feel like it would be great to have against control but I'm not sure what to cut for it.
RGW Rith, the Awakener
BRG Prossh, Skyraider of Kher
UBR Nicol Bolas
GWU Treva, the Renewer
RWU Numot, the Devastator
While testing, keep in mind that Nature's Will triggers on combat damage to an opponent, so in multiplayer it will trigger for each opponent hit, allowing for multiple untaps.
Retired EDH - Tibor and Lumia | [PR]Nemata |Ramirez dePietro | [C]Edric | Riku | Jenara | Lazav | Heliod | Daxos | Roon | Kozilek
That is a good point, could get a lot a milage out of Selesnya Guildmage, Jade Mage, White Sun's Zenith and Gavony Township. I have one in the mail and currently I am thinking of testing it in Emeria Angel's spot. It's nice that the tokens she gives have flying but she is slower than most of the other tokens engines.
RGW Rith, the Awakener
BRG Prossh, Skyraider of Kher
UBR Nicol Bolas
GWU Treva, the Renewer
RWU Numot, the Devastator