This gets hairy, though; there are 31 distinct "Elephant" creature types, 6 cards which create (just) Elephant tokens, and dozens of cards which feature elephants in the art, title, or flavor text. This leaves me room for only 20 cards (including the general) to support the deck and make it work, while still keeping as close as possible to the elephant theme.
I'm only running 38 lands, and I'm not including EVERY card with an elephant in the art or flavor text (some aren't even in these colors!). I can't imagine a slot I could free up for Coat of Arms, any of the Changelings (no matter how good)! And while the Riptide Replicator and Volrath's Laboratory are very capable in theme decks, where do they fit? for a 2/2 is painful, and the Replicator is making slivers!
The Incubator is a good suggestion, but the outrageous land base in this deck, and the already low cost of elephants (with little card draw ability to neccessitate casting several per turn), means I can pretty well cast whatever I like as soon as I draw it.
In actual games, it's apparent that recursion and card draw (after creature or board wipes) is dangerously low. Slate of Ancestry was a consideration for some time, but again, what to replace? Otherwise, Power Matrix, Mammoth Harness, and now Stirring Wildwood deal with any fliers I couldn't tap down, and banding+regenerate lands take card of most medium-scale incoming assaults. Dead-Iron Sledge and the proto-Provoke elephants clear the board nicely when needed.
The Sunpetal Grove suggestion is right on target! I'm tracking down a foil version to give the deck the "full EDH treatment" after all the attention in the thread; I've added Stirring Wildwood, Unhinged and Unglued Forests and Plains (one of each), foil Zendikar full-art lands, and I'm working on sourcing or trading my Swamp/Mountain GURU lands for a Forest/Plains.
Any suggestions on cards to cut or improve? Remember, the fun of the deck is really in its firm and silly adherence to theme!
Wildebeest, Bison, Zebra, and a savannah bird of some kind. Excellent eye, though, Shoe! I ran the Mirage "Watering Hole" plains for the longest time : )
Wildebeest, Bison, Zebra, and a savannah bird of some kind. Excellent eye, though, Shoe! I ran the Mirage "Watering Hole" plains for the longest time : )
There's also a new card with a flying elephant in the art in M11, Mighty Leap or something. Got spoiled a while ago but only saw the art today.
My few comments:
1) get rid of Gemstone Mine as it's not necessary in a two colored deck and using it only 3 times in a group game that goes long is detrimental.
2) have you considered Seedborn Muse, or don't you want any creatures that don't have the word elephant on them? I love Seedborn Muse! Awakening can also help out your tuskcaller and you'll need to tap down creatures that might attack you so I don't think the disadvantage will hurt... oh wait, lands too... then that just helps out counterspell decks. However Counterspell decks won't be wasting counters on your elephants, right? It'll just help keep combo in check (although it does give a lot of card advantage with Phyrexian Portal and being able to activate it every turn).
3) I'm not a huge fan of Ivory Tower in a deck with no card advantage. Maybe add in a Harmonize or something?
4) no mana acceleration besides Sol Ring? You're playing with beefy ELEPHANTS, how about Kodama's Reach or the M11 reprint, Explosive Vegetation, and the like? Gilded Lotus and Thran Dynamo are staples in all my EDH decks and they can help you too... which reminds me...
5) Riptide Replicator-nuff said.
My few comments:
1) get rid of Gemstone Mine as it's not necessary in a two colored deck and using it only 3 times in a group game that goes long is detrimental.
2) have you considered Seedborn Muse, or don't you want any creatures that don't have the word elephant on them? I love Seedborn Muse! Awakening can also help out your tuskcaller and you'll need to tap down creatures that might attack you so I don't think the disadvantage will hurt... oh wait, lands too... then that just helps out counterspell decks. However Counterspell decks won't be wasting counters on your elephants, right? It'll just help keep combo in check (although it does give a lot of card advantage with Phyrexian Portal and being able to activate it every turn).
3) I'm not a huge fan of Ivory Tower in a deck with no card advantage. Maybe add in a Harmonize or something?
4) no mana acceleration besides Sol Ring? You're playing with beefy ELEPHANTS, how about Kodama's Reach or the M11 reprint, Explosive Vegetation, and the like? Gilded Lotus and Thran Dynamo are staples in all my EDH decks and they can help you too... which reminds me...
5) Riptide Replicator-nuff said.
jokalhaups, excellent observations!
I immediately dropped the Ivory Tower (only really in for the art) and Gemstone Mine (Selesnya Sanctuary allowed me to get up to 5 uses out of it, but with so much fetch ability, dual lands, and Riftstone Portal, I don't recall EVER using it for its counters).
In their place went Mirari's Wake and Stirring Wildwood (:symg::symw: 3/4 reach in ground pounder deck? Yes please!). It also taps for either color, as a silly added perk.
As for Seedborn Muse or Awakening, I opted for Quest for Renewal. While it's not as good (won't untap lands, mostly), it has a tremendous diplomatic advantage in EDH, where Seedborn Muse and Renewal would be #1 targets. It sticks around long enough to get the Glare of Subdual defensive combo going, or allow me to attack and then Convoke the Chord of Calling, perhaps even scatter elephant tokens with the Tuskcaller (36 tokens from her alone is the current record).
I find that with so little card draw, and so many fetch and dual lands, that mana acceleration rarely becomes a factor. If anything, Amulet of Vigor would save quite a few headaches with all the CIPT lands involved. We'll see what more draw leads to, though
Whiptail Wurm has tusks, trunks, and massive flappy ears on it....but it's a wurm that scares elephants.
RetrovirusX, good eye! I'd never come across Whiptail Wurm before, but when M11 comes out there wil be enough elephant art that I'll need to at least keep a "fake sideboard" of elephant art cards to maintain my credibility
Holy crap, there's a mammoth in Veldt! It might get relegated to the "elephant art" sideboard, though, it's pretty terrible >.<
Side note: I was just checking out your auctions from links at the dragonhighlander forums. Small world, and absolutely amazing work; if an elephant general is ever printed, would you do a commission job?
I wonder how tough it would be to make that happen. I know Ken Nagle hangs out on EDH boards and keeps EDH very much in mind when he's designing cards. I bet with a creative enough way of getting his attention we could convince him it needs to happen
Well, I have found myself addicted to the edh format. I play edh allmost exclusively now. I think there are a lot more people like me everyday and that they need to do a few more general creatures that cater to more ecclectic tastes. There are plenty of tribes without generals, or good generals, the elephants are just 1 of many. Let's see.....
Thrulls
bats
dwarves (red balthor only pumps barbarians, black balthor is useless as a dwarf tribal)
pegasi
griffins (have a general but he's too terrible to contemplate) ,
Trolls
Apes(r/g gorillas in the mist...... sounds so fun....)
Pegasi
A 5 color spirit legend.....(maybe in return to kamigawa)
Red elementals (ashling doesn't count)
Insects (r/g/b)
sea Serpents (think islandhome)
Wurms (sadly also jund colors)
Hydras
Myr (this could be very interesting.....)
Squirrels
The list goes on........
And it wouldn't hurt a bit to go back and errata some of the older cards as tribal. Goblin warrens and goblin grenade aren't tribal yet? How is that? those umbras should have been tribal as well. Bear umbra?oh well. I think I have done enough ranting for a while. Sorry for being so longwinded and getting off topic a bit.
There are only 7 bats in game, and perhaps 2 bat-generators, and one is :symb::symw:!
38 Dwarves, though... Hmm, 3 :symrw:, 2 :symb:, 1 :symu:, maybe heavy LD? Would need a nice general, though, you're right.
6 Pegasi' proper, and 4 very good Pegasus spells. This might have to wait >.<
Zuberi, Golden Feather for Griffins is a no-brainer! Though, there is a and griffin, and one freaky :symw::symg::symr: griffin you'd have to skip, that still leaves 22 griffins
Trolls touch all five colors, but are best in green. Like slivers, this would be a theme nightmare, but a tribal possibility. Not even a half-way respectable troll general, though. When I looked at this, I immediately thought of Ensnaring Bridge and Mosswort Bridge, so we need more bridges for our trolls!
Borborygmos, the cyclops who inhabits the gorilla mountain sanctuary (there are 22 legal apes!)? With some card draw, haste, multiple attack phases, this could move quite nicely! Better than elephants, surely : )
Spirits are amazing for EDH, and my brother in law runs a reasonably effective kamigawa based 5-color spirit tribal deck with splice mechanics, using Child of Alara as his general. Soulshift, spirit token generation, and land fetch make this deck pretty formidable in multi : )
Elementals with Ashling the Pilgrim could be interesting, if you don't blow up your own crew every other turn. 110 red elementals, AND you get Brighthearth Banneret. Doable!
Insects aren't too bad, 101 (86 in :symg::symr::symb:) to choose from and you even get a color appropriate Insect Wizard general, Xira Arien! Token overrun would be simple here!
21 "Serpent"s across :symu:, :symr:, and :symb:. I say cut the red and run Sivitri Scarzam for theme, then Quicksilver Fountain and an emphasis on color denial and island walk. Done!
Wurms could be a ton of fun, and plenty to choose from. Another general-less tribal deck, though, unless you wanted to cheat and use Darigaaz, the Igniter or another dragon as some sort of super-wurm lord. Meh
Hydras? There are 14, and one of them is PROGENITUS. Make every blue card Clone, Follow the Footsteps, Twincast (on a STEEECK), Rite of Replication, etc. and you could fill it out. Tons of artifact mana, call it a day! A side perk, the art for these is spectacular; I may toss it together just for kicks!
Memnarch would definitely be the Myr general, lorewise. Stupid illegal generals! You could make a case for Karn, too, and possibly an EASY case depending on where he goes for Scars.
9 total legal "squirrel" cards. It was a cute gimic, I'll give you that, but no more squirrels!
Get creative! I am but one tribal junkie among thousands here, I'm sure : )
Well I have to admit, I did not know about the errata on xaria. Also forgot progenitus was a hydra. My point was more that there are a lot of neat tribal themes that could be done well with a little more support. The ones that make me the most sad are the dwarves, apes, and wurms. A 5 color wurm would be hotness. And as red is my favorite color, I am truly saddened by the lack of a dwarf king. No real lords either. Fantastic tribe full of flavor and one of the classic fantasy races, I have been continually saddened by the lack of new dwarves. And its so hard for me to believe that there isn't a quality red dwarf general, or even a legendary wurm.
So, excluding the small neglected tribes, which tribes still need a general?
Dwarves
Wurms
Elephants
Great suggestions there! I think that simply having a general that fits the theme an is in the same colors is enough. I wouldn't expect the general to also be a lord or care if you're playing more of his tribe. Ebon Praetor and Xira Arien are the types of cards I'm thinking of. Balthor would work for me if he had 1 fewer ability, but that barbarian pump does seem a bit mocking so I understand disliking him.
I think that a legendary GW Mouse would be as cool as a legendary GW Elephant. He's their general because they're all afraid of him
Edit: I'll add that I'm with you on some of those tribes getting a cool lord or 2; that's jut different in my mind from getting a cool general.
Savannah Mice
Creature - Mouse
When Savannah Mice are turned face-up, all Elephants gain +3/+3, haste, and trample. Creatures you control must attack this turn if able.
If at anytime you control a Cat, bury Savannah Mice.
I must say, this is one freaking awesome deck. You have inspired me, sir.
Quote from MidoriRyu »
Wurms could be a ton of fun, and plenty to choose from. Another general-less tribal deck, though, unless you wanted to cheat and use Darigaaz, the Igniter or another dragon as some sort of super-wurm lord. Meh
I might be willing to take that challenge. I might want to incorporate "worms" in addition to wurms, just for cool stuff like Worm Harvest and and Feast of Worms. Problem is, there are too many of these cards to make a functional EDH deck. Should I cut colors and make some dragon (Wyrm) my general? Maybe incorporate Hellions and use Ulasht, the Hate Seed, missing out on Autochron Wurm and Novablast Wurm? Or should I go five-color, using something that looks wurm-like (Cromat, Sliver Overlord, Progenitus) or the obvious tribal general (Karona, False God)?
Also, know any non-wurm cards that might have a wurm in the picture or something?
I'm only running 38 lands, and I'm not including EVERY card with an elephant in the art or flavor text (some aren't even in these colors!). I can't imagine a slot I could free up for Coat of Arms, any of the Changelings (no matter how good)! And while the Riptide Replicator and Volrath's Laboratory are very capable in theme decks, where do they fit? for a 2/2 is painful, and the Replicator is making slivers!
The Incubator is a good suggestion, but the outrageous land base in this deck, and the already low cost of elephants (with little card draw ability to neccessitate casting several per turn), means I can pretty well cast whatever I like as soon as I draw it.
In actual games, it's apparent that recursion and card draw (after creature or board wipes) is dangerously low. Slate of Ancestry was a consideration for some time, but again, what to replace? Otherwise, Power Matrix, Mammoth Harness, and now Stirring Wildwood deal with any fliers I couldn't tap down, and banding+regenerate lands take card of most medium-scale incoming assaults. Dead-Iron Sledge and the proto-Provoke elephants clear the board nicely when needed.
The Sunpetal Grove suggestion is right on target! I'm tracking down a foil version to give the deck the "full EDH treatment" after all the attention in the thread; I've added Stirring Wildwood, Unhinged and Unglued Forests and Plains (one of each), foil Zendikar full-art lands, and I'm working on sourcing or trading my Swamp/Mountain GURU lands for a Forest/Plains.
Any suggestions on cards to cut or improve? Remember, the fun of the deck is really in its firm and silly adherence to theme!
:symr::symg: 99 Permanents, But... :symr::symg:
:symw::symg: Every Elephant :symg::symw: Support your local game stores!
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Mirage Plains
Wildebeest, Bison, Zebra, and a savannah bird of some kind. Excellent eye, though, Shoe! I ran the Mirage "Watering Hole" plains for the longest time : )
:symr::symg: 99 Permanents, But... :symr::symg:
:symw::symg: Every Elephant :symg::symw: Support your local game stores!
Wasteland Gaming | Tower Games
There's also a new card with a flying elephant in the art in M11, Mighty Leap or something. Got spoiled a while ago but only saw the art today.
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Zimagic, you made my lunch that much better! One more (much needed) way to knock out fliers, AND it has awesome flavor text!
:symr::symg: 99 Permanents, But... :symr::symg:
:symw::symg: Every Elephant :symg::symw: Support your local game stores!
Wasteland Gaming | Tower Games
1) get rid of Gemstone Mine as it's not necessary in a two colored deck and using it only 3 times in a group game that goes long is detrimental.
2) have you considered Seedborn Muse, or don't you want any creatures that don't have the word elephant on them? I love Seedborn Muse! Awakening can also help out your tuskcaller and you'll need to tap down creatures that might attack you so I don't think the disadvantage will hurt... oh wait, lands too... then that just helps out counterspell decks. However Counterspell decks won't be wasting counters on your elephants, right? It'll just help keep combo in check (although it does give a lot of card advantage with Phyrexian Portal and being able to activate it every turn).
3) I'm not a huge fan of Ivory Tower in a deck with no card advantage. Maybe add in a Harmonize or something?
4) no mana acceleration besides Sol Ring? You're playing with beefy ELEPHANTS, how about Kodama's Reach or the M11 reprint, Explosive Vegetation, and the like? Gilded Lotus and Thran Dynamo are staples in all my EDH decks and they can help you too... which reminds me...
5) Riptide Replicator-nuff said.
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jokalhaups, excellent observations!
I immediately dropped the Ivory Tower (only really in for the art) and Gemstone Mine (Selesnya Sanctuary allowed me to get up to 5 uses out of it, but with so much fetch ability, dual lands, and Riftstone Portal, I don't recall EVER using it for its counters).
In their place went Mirari's Wake and Stirring Wildwood (:symg::symw: 3/4 reach in ground pounder deck? Yes please!). It also taps for either color, as a silly added perk.
As for Seedborn Muse or Awakening, I opted for Quest for Renewal. While it's not as good (won't untap lands, mostly), it has a tremendous diplomatic advantage in EDH, where Seedborn Muse and Renewal would be #1 targets. It sticks around long enough to get the Glare of Subdual defensive combo going, or allow me to attack and then Convoke the Chord of Calling, perhaps even scatter elephant tokens with the Tuskcaller (36 tokens from her alone is the current record).
I find that with so little card draw, and so many fetch and dual lands, that mana acceleration rarely becomes a factor. If anything, Amulet of Vigor would save quite a few headaches with all the CIPT lands involved. We'll see what more draw leads to, though
Finding a spot for Harmonize is definitely on my list, but Riptide Replicator is distinctly slivers!
RetrovirusX, good eye! I'd never come across Whiptail Wurm before, but when M11 comes out there wil be enough elephant art that I'll need to at least keep a "fake sideboard" of elephant art cards to maintain my credibility
Elephant Art
1 Bosom Buddy
1 Brace for Impact
1 Echoing Calm
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Firestorm Hellkite
1 Frankie Peanuts
1 Inflame
1 Ivory Mask (Ivory, anyway)
1 Ivory Tower (actual elephant busts)
1 Keeper of the Beasts (Is that mini-Terastodon?)
1 Kor Spiritdancer
1 Unquestioned Authority (What was THAT artist thinking?)
1 Whiptail Wurm
1 Winter's Grasp
:symr::symg: 99 Permanents, But... :symr::symg:
:symw::symg: Every Elephant :symg::symw: Support your local game stores!
Wasteland Gaming | Tower Games
Needs more Veldt.
Unspoken Realms: Audio recordings of stories from Uncharted Realms
Side note: I was just checking out your auctions from links at the dragonhighlander forums. Small world, and absolutely amazing work; if an elephant general is ever printed, would you do a commission job?
:symr::symg: 99 Permanents, But... :symr::symg:
:symw::symg: Every Elephant :symg::symw: Support your local game stores!
Wasteland Gaming | Tower Games
I wonder how tough it would be to make that happen. I know Ken Nagle hangs out on EDH boards and keeps EDH very much in mind when he's designing cards. I bet with a creative enough way of getting his attention we could convince him it needs to happen
Unspoken Realms: Audio recordings of stories from Uncharted Realms
Unspoken Realms: Audio recordings of stories from Uncharted Realms
Thrulls
bats
dwarves (red balthor only pumps barbarians, black balthor is useless as a dwarf tribal)
pegasi
griffins (have a general but he's too terrible to contemplate) ,
Trolls
Apes(r/g gorillas in the mist...... sounds so fun....)
Pegasi
A 5 color spirit legend.....(maybe in return to kamigawa)
Red elementals (ashling doesn't count)
Insects (r/g/b)
sea Serpents (think islandhome)
Wurms (sadly also jund colors)
Hydras
Myr (this could be very interesting.....)
Squirrels
The list goes on........
And it wouldn't hurt a bit to go back and errata some of the older cards as tribal. Goblin warrens and goblin grenade aren't tribal yet? How is that? those umbras should have been tribal as well. Bear umbra?oh well. I think I have done enough ranting for a while. Sorry for being so longwinded and getting off topic a bit.
There are only 7 bats in game, and perhaps 2 bat-generators, and one is :symb::symw:!
38 Dwarves, though... Hmm, 3 :symrw:, 2 :symb:, 1 :symu:, maybe heavy LD? Would need a nice general, though, you're right.
6 Pegasi' proper, and 4 very good Pegasus spells. This might have to wait >.<
Zuberi, Golden Feather for Griffins is a no-brainer! Though, there is a and griffin, and one freaky :symw::symg::symr: griffin you'd have to skip, that still leaves 22 griffins
Trolls touch all five colors, but are best in green. Like slivers, this would be a theme nightmare, but a tribal possibility. Not even a half-way respectable troll general, though. When I looked at this, I immediately thought of Ensnaring Bridge and Mosswort Bridge, so we need more bridges for our trolls!
Borborygmos, the cyclops who inhabits the gorilla mountain sanctuary (there are 22 legal apes!)? With some card draw, haste, multiple attack phases, this could move quite nicely! Better than elephants, surely : )
Spirits are amazing for EDH, and my brother in law runs a reasonably effective kamigawa based 5-color spirit tribal deck with splice mechanics, using Child of Alara as his general. Soulshift, spirit token generation, and land fetch make this deck pretty formidable in multi : )
Elementals with Ashling the Pilgrim could be interesting, if you don't blow up your own crew every other turn. 110 red elementals, AND you get Brighthearth Banneret. Doable!
Insects aren't too bad, 101 (86 in :symg::symr::symb:) to choose from and you even get a color appropriate Insect Wizard general, Xira Arien! Token overrun would be simple here!
21 "Serpent"s across :symu:, :symr:, and :symb:. I say cut the red and run Sivitri Scarzam for theme, then Quicksilver Fountain and an emphasis on color denial and island walk. Done!
Wurms could be a ton of fun, and plenty to choose from. Another general-less tribal deck, though, unless you wanted to cheat and use Darigaaz, the Igniter or another dragon as some sort of super-wurm lord. Meh
Hydras? There are 14, and one of them is PROGENITUS. Make every blue card Clone, Follow the Footsteps, Twincast (on a STEEECK), Rite of Replication, etc. and you could fill it out. Tons of artifact mana, call it a day! A side perk, the art for these is spectacular; I may toss it together just for kicks!
Memnarch would definitely be the Myr general, lorewise. Stupid illegal generals! You could make a case for Karn, too, and possibly an EASY case depending on where he goes for Scars.
9 total legal "squirrel" cards. It was a cute gimic, I'll give you that, but no more squirrels!
Get creative! I am but one tribal junkie among thousands here, I'm sure : )
:symr::symg: 99 Permanents, But... :symr::symg:
:symw::symg: Every Elephant :symg::symw: Support your local game stores!
Wasteland Gaming | Tower Games
So, excluding the small neglected tribes, which tribes still need a general?
Dwarves
Wurms
Elephants
Can you think of any others?
I think that a legendary GW Mouse would be as cool as a legendary GW Elephant. He's their general because they're all afraid of him
Edit: I'll add that I'm with you on some of those tribes getting a cool lord or 2; that's jut different in my mind from getting a cool general.
Unspoken Realms: Audio recordings of stories from Uncharted Realms
Pinkey and the Brain, elephant overlords.
1/1
All elephants have haste, +2/+2, and must attack each turn if able
"what are we going to do tonight, brain?"
"The same thing we do every night, pinkey.
Try to take over the world!"
Creature - Mouse
When Savannah Mice are turned face-up, all Elephants gain +3/+3, haste, and trample. Creatures you control must attack this turn if able.
If at anytime you control a Cat, bury Savannah Mice.
Morph :3mana::symg::symg::symg:
0/1
WTB Photoshop talents
:symr::symg: 99 Permanents, But... :symr::symg:
:symw::symg: Every Elephant :symg::symw: Support your local game stores!
Wasteland Gaming | Tower Games
I might be willing to take that challenge. I might want to incorporate "worms" in addition to wurms, just for cool stuff like Worm Harvest and and Feast of Worms. Problem is, there are too many of these cards to make a functional EDH deck. Should I cut colors and make some dragon (Wyrm) my general? Maybe incorporate Hellions and use Ulasht, the Hate Seed, missing out on Autochron Wurm and Novablast Wurm? Or should I go five-color, using something that looks wurm-like (Cromat, Sliver Overlord, Progenitus) or the obvious tribal general (Karona, False God)?
Also, know any non-wurm cards that might have a wurm in the picture or something?
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I'm not just seeing things, am I?
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