This deck really wants the red myojin. Like the deck otherwise, though!
Honestly in my very first draft of this deck I played Myojin of Infinite Rage and Keldon Firebombers in the deck along with other land disruption effects such as Ruination and Blood Moon effects. Honestly all in all I do like these effects for red decks but this deck needs tons of mana to fuel the big token waves. Even if I were to drop and activate a Myojin, people often save a spot removal for when I go to attack so it is sort of a big risk to blow up my land and have them strip my commander.
In the end I decided to go away from mass LD because I felt it was better to be able to drop another wave of creatures and not blow out my own resource. Also I would probably need to put a lot more mana stones in the deck if I were to rely more on blowing up lands regularly.
I really liked your idea for Welder and adopted heavy artifacts, which means I like could use Hoarding Dragon when I work out what is least needed. have any ideas?
Hopefully this helps give you my take on deck, so far.
Edit: I dont have gauntlet of might, it is a wishlist card, I will rpelace it with lens or a mana rock though until I have it. I'm pretty keen on this deck idea so I may save up though.
A few that I have sort of struggled with myself out of your list are:
Lightning Greaves Personally I feel like the global haste outlets are just a lot more powerful... They give a whole token swarm the ability to come out swinging and if you have an all your creatures have haste I think it is as good if not better than these effects. If you play Marton and try to equip this it would be the same result as if you were to play him and try to attack... if opponents have the spot removal he will just be eaten by it then.
Swiftfoot Boots Same issue with the greaves plus this one costs mana to equip.
Sword of Feast and Famine I just dont see this doing a ton for this deck... I guess if you have a lot of mana intensive per turn mana spawners it can help but I have never been as big a fan of this sword in comparison to the other two in EDH. Dont get me wrong I love this in 60 card 1v1 and I play it a ton in Standard but it just doesnt feel as powerful in EDH.
Dolmen Gate I think I have mentioned my issues with this card a few times now...
Yuan Shao, the Indecisive I had originally thought this was a Goblin War Drums effect on legs but now on reviewing it I like him a lot less... When do you need to worry about a creature being double blocked in this deck? I just dont see him being that useful now...
Aggravated Assault I have sort of an issue with extra attack phase effects in here... If you are using it to bank on Marton attacking with a bunch of guys multiple times I think you are getting your hopes up a bit too high. I think that Savage Beating is probably the best of these effects to say the least but I just dont see them panning out as well as a plan B. If I were to go with one of them though the surprise 4x damage off of Savage Beating though would probably be the way I would go.
Breath of Fury it is cute but omg its so easily stopped. If they have a blocker or if anyone has a maze effect or spot removal it is put to a stop. I think it is a bit far fetched to expect all that much from this card.
I also feel like you might consider adding more cheap mana stones... This deck can be a moster to get going and extra mana is a great dump for the x token effects. Our lists do look fairly similar though.
EDIT: I could see perhaps keeping just the Lightning Greaves but I sort of feel like Swiftfoot Boots might be overkill. I like the boots as an option for Godo to go get as well but I would probably keep it to just one of these personally.
A few that I have sort of struggled with myself out of your list are:
Lightning Greaves Personally I feel like the global haste outlets are just a lot more powerful... They give a whole token swarm the ability to come out swinging and if you have an all your creatures have haste I think it is as good if not better than these effects. If you play Marton and try to equip this it would be the same result as if you were to play him and try to attack... if opponents have the spot removal he will just be eaten by it then.
Swiftfoot Boots Same issue with the greaves plus this one costs mana to equip.
Sword of Feast and Famine I just dont see this doing a ton for this deck... I guess if you have a lot of mana intensive per turn mana spawners it can help but I have never been as big a fan of this sword in comparison to the other two in EDH. Dont get me wrong I love this in 60 card 1v1 and I play it a ton in Standard but it just doesnt feel as powerful in EDH.
Dolmen Gate I think I have mentioned my issues with this card a few times now...
Yuan Shao, the Indecisive I had originally thought this was a Goblin War Drums effect on legs but now on reviewing it I like him a lot less... When do you need to worry about a creature being double blocked in this deck? I just dont see him being that useful now...
Aggravated Assault I have sort of an issue with extra attack phase effects in here... If you are using it to bank on Marton attacking with a bunch of guys multiple times I think you are getting your hopes up a bit too high. I think that Savage Beating is probably the best of these effects to say the least but I just dont see them panning out as well as a plan B. If I were to go with one of them though the surprise 4x damage off of Savage Beating though would probably be the way I would go.
Breath of Fury it is cute but omg its so easily stopped. If they have a blocker or if anyone has a maze effect or spot removal it is put to a stop. I think it is a bit far fetched to expect all that much from this card.
I also feel like you might consider adding more cheap mana stones... This deck can be a moster to get going and extra mana is a great dump for the x token effects. Our lists do look fairly similar though.
I can understand the breath of fury, it is living the dream if you connect more than once. I'll remove it I guess for an extra mana rock.
Yuan Shao, the Indecisive may not work, but he does keep non-marton guys alive. An alternative I had that Yank also did was Bedlam so you always connect. I want to try out this guy, partially just to use a P3K guy in a deck of mine, however lame that sounds.
The assault works well with SoFaF, the infamous I win combo. Three swords is straining deck slightly with too much equipment I guess. I'd like to keep the swords, but I have so much equipment bogging it down right now, I 'll remove the shield for the dragon I believe.
I am a fan of Dolmen Gate, I'll try get a game or two in this weekend and then I can tell you if I agree with you on it.
I also play Weiss Schwarz, Chaos, Vanguard and Wixoss.
Weiss Schwarz Sets
Accel World, Angel Beats, Familiar of Zero, Gargantia on the Verdurous Planet, Guilty Crown, Kill La Kill, Robotics;Notes, Sword Art Online.
Chaos Partners
Arpeggio of Blue Steel: Iona, Kirishima, Kongou.
Dangan Ronpa: Asahina, Togami.
Freezing: Vibration: Chiffon, Satelizer.
Vanguard Clans Favoured
Angel Feather, Dark Irregulars, Genesis, Neonecter, Pale Moon, Shadow Paladins, Tachikaze.
I am hoping to get a bunch of testing in with my deck. It is becoming one of my favorite lists and if I can get in enough play to iron out some issues I wouldnt mind turning this guy into my next primer.
Still I think I need to get a lot more playtesting in personally before I can even come close to writing up enough info for a primer. I will see what I can do though.
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I have officially moved to MTGNexus. I just wanted to let people know as my response time to salvation decks being bumped is very hit or miss.
I am hoping to get a bunch of testing in with my deck. It is becoming one of my favorite lists and if I can get in enough play to iron out some issues I wouldnt mind turning this guy into my next primer.
Still I think I need to get a lot more playtesting in personally before I can even come close to writing up enough info for a primer. I will see what I can do though.
It needs a lot more before that, heh.
I feel the mana base could do more, but it depends how much one wants to stretch it. It could even be idea to force valakut slightly more as an alternative build.
I'm thinking of Mimic Vat right now as an option instead of Sculpting Steel, which leads to idea of maybe including High Market to work with it. I will put in the vat, as it poses question of saving your token generators, even when they die.
One thing primer should note is the deck can be built in varying degrees of aggressiveness.
I also play Weiss Schwarz, Chaos, Vanguard and Wixoss.
Weiss Schwarz Sets
Accel World, Angel Beats, Familiar of Zero, Gargantia on the Verdurous Planet, Guilty Crown, Kill La Kill, Robotics;Notes, Sword Art Online.
Chaos Partners
Arpeggio of Blue Steel: Iona, Kirishima, Kongou.
Dangan Ronpa: Asahina, Togami.
Freezing: Vibration: Chiffon, Satelizer.
Vanguard Clans Favoured
Angel Feather, Dark Irregulars, Genesis, Neonecter, Pale Moon, Shadow Paladins, Tachikaze.
I would add Mogg Infestation to the list as it is quite versatile.
I think that Elemental Mastery would be great tech in a deck like this. I don't like that it relies on your board to do well, but it could be so explosive that it just outright wins you the game. I think it's worth considering.
Emmara is like the worst parts of Legends and Homelands got pregnant, aborted the fetus, tossed it in the trashcan, set it on fire and wrapped the corpse in a Dragon's Maze pack wrapper.
I feel the mana base could do more, but it depends how much one wants to stretch it. It could even be idea to force valakut slightly more as an alternative build.
I'm thinking of Mimic Vat right now as an option instead of Sculpting Steel, which leads to idea of maybe including High Market to work with it. I will put in the vat, as it poses question of saving your token generators, even when they die.
One thing primer should note is the deck can be built in varying degrees of aggressiveness.
I would add Mogg Infestation to the list as it is quite versatile.
I think that Elemental Mastery would be great tech in a deck like this. I don't like that it relies on your board to do well, but it could be so explosive that it just outright wins you the game. I think it's worth considering.
I think I will put sort of a potential cards currently not in use section on the first page.
As for the info on the primer... it would be a few months out yet but if the deck continues to do as good as it has been for me I could see it happening. One of the amazing parts of this deck is that Marton is such a huge killer just by attacking once. It uses a token swarm mentality but it does not require any specific type of creatures so unlike the usual red tribal we can just put the best of the spawners in the list and run off of that. There is obviously a lot of testing and information that will need to be added long before a primer is even consider plus I would probably list 2 different versions assuming my current list continues to work out. One list would contain a more aggressive list and the second would list one with more answers.
Mimic Vat might be a good potential add to the list. Along the same thought train I really like Nim Deathmantle for this deck too. It would give Marton some evasion plus the ability to self rez onto the equipment which would be bad ass. Plus it is an equipment so Godo can tutor it.... man I think I need to make some room for that
Mogg Infestation is another card I would like to do some testing for as I think it has great potential in this list. I think the Elemental Mastery has great potential but it also has a good chance of me falling on my face from spot removal... I will continue to consider it though...
I will throw some possibilities arround for a bit and see what I can come up with...
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I have officially moved to MTGNexus. I just wanted to let people know as my response time to salvation decks being bumped is very hit or miss.
You could also consider Spine of Ish Sah. I run it successfully in a few mono-decks but it truly shines with Goblin Welder, essentially always giving you a welding target to recur things.
Emmara is like the worst parts of Legends and Homelands got pregnant, aborted the fetus, tossed it in the trashcan, set it on fire and wrapped the corpse in a Dragon's Maze pack wrapper.
You could also consider Spine of Ish Sah. I run it successfully in a few mono-decks but it truly shines with Goblin Welder, essentially always giving you a welding target to recur things.
Unfortunately it is really really slow... I think I have several other removal staples that I would be inclined to run before I would consider the spine. It is cute with the Welder but it is an expensive ass card outside of that.
Plus I am running removal light in this current build. I could see it being a decent add though if someone wanted to run a more controlling build but even then it would be fairly down on my list... Cute interaction at the least.
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I have officially moved to MTGNexus. I just wanted to let people know as my response time to salvation decks being bumped is very hit or miss.
I would add Mogg Infestation to the list as it is quite versatile.
I think that Elemental Mastery would be great tech in a deck like this. I don't like that it relies on your board to do well, but it could be so explosive that it just outright wins you the game. I think it's worth considering.
We were discussing Mogg Infestation, it could be very interesting and is worths queezing in. The Mastery could be usable, auras always have risk of being two for oned, but some of bigger creatures are certainly targets.
I also play Weiss Schwarz, Chaos, Vanguard and Wixoss.
Weiss Schwarz Sets
Accel World, Angel Beats, Familiar of Zero, Gargantia on the Verdurous Planet, Guilty Crown, Kill La Kill, Robotics;Notes, Sword Art Online.
Chaos Partners
Arpeggio of Blue Steel: Iona, Kirishima, Kongou.
Dangan Ronpa: Asahina, Togami.
Freezing: Vibration: Chiffon, Satelizer.
Vanguard Clans Favoured
Angel Feather, Dark Irregulars, Genesis, Neonecter, Pale Moon, Shadow Paladins, Tachikaze.
The shield was sort of lackluster and I want the Darksteel Plate over it almost every time. The deathmantle gives a different sort of protection though and we can use it on creatures that are not equiped with it. It would also be great to sac or kill one of our token producing creatures just to strap it to the deathmantle and respawn another wave. Plus it would make Marton a black intimidating zombie... I mean how funny is that image.
I will keep looking to see if I can find something I want to cut for Mogg Infestation. I like how it sort of gives us a conditional wrath effect potentially which can also double our own tokens in play which is bad ass. I think it will be a good potential control style card for the deck.
I definitely agree on the plate over shield, so much cheaper and better value (and I did same thing on your recommendation.
I like the Nim Deathmantle, it's a good idea for your list, which currently has fewer equipment. I feel it clashes with Mimic Vat for me as you don't want too much stuff in recursion slot, so I'll get some experience under my belt and then see if I would make same change.
I'll scour your list for maybe a weak card.
Edit: Citanul Flute seems very expensive for this deck, you'll rarely search and cast it and people will be able to respond either crushing board state or countering. Maybe that would be card?
I also play Weiss Schwarz, Chaos, Vanguard and Wixoss.
Weiss Schwarz Sets
Accel World, Angel Beats, Familiar of Zero, Gargantia on the Verdurous Planet, Guilty Crown, Kill La Kill, Robotics;Notes, Sword Art Online.
Chaos Partners
Arpeggio of Blue Steel: Iona, Kirishima, Kongou.
Dangan Ronpa: Asahina, Togami.
Freezing: Vibration: Chiffon, Satelizer.
Vanguard Clans Favoured
Angel Feather, Dark Irregulars, Genesis, Neonecter, Pale Moon, Shadow Paladins, Tachikaze.
Pentavus is a pain in the ass creature where it takes a lot to drop it and it takes a lot to move his counters into tokens. At about the same cost I could drop the Myr Incubator and activate for a potential like 20+ tokens swarm off of the Myr Incubator. Even if you just look at using the tokens with something smaller this feels like a huge wincon and more likely to blow people out of the water than the lowly Pentavus. It seems like a good swap to me on paper considering how high my artifact count is in here...
Citanul Flute is sort of meh. It hasnt been impressive and the Infestation gives me sort of a dual purpose removal spell.
Pentavus is a pain in the ass creature where it takes a lot to drop it and it takes a lot to move his counters into tokens. At about the same cost I could drop the Myr Incubator and activate for a potential like 20+ tokens swarm off of the Myr Incubator. Even if you just look at using the tokens with something smaller this feels like a huge wincon and more likely to blow people out of the water than the lowly Pentavus. It seems like a good swap to me on paper considering how high my artifact count is in here...
Goblin Marshal has been giving me issues just due to how few tokens he spawns at one time. He also has echo which means I have to sort of stagger my tokens coming into play ocwardly. I like how Mogg Infestation feels sort of dual purpose for offensive or defensive plays.
The big downside to these proposed changes are that they reduce the creature count which can be used with Kiki-Jiki and some of the equipment. I am still not 100% sure on this though... I could also cut the Citanul Flute as you proposed which would keep the creature count a bit higher. Hummm... I might just end up doing that... which of the two above do you think would be better to keep?
Incubator certainly works well with the deck, although I would be hesitant to use it, are you intending it as a one hit alpha strike thing? As artifacts generate the bulk of the tokens normally.
I feel like this is one of those cards where you are living the dream if you get it off and say have anger in GY or fervor/web/urabrask out. This brings the deck to combo status effectively. I see why you need the mana.
It's really against my play style, but damn it sounds fun getting it off, so I'd give it it a try. I'll be trying the same myself and there are enough artifacts to kill multiple people.
I never had Goblin Marshall, I had War Marshall, heh, but I agree the slot is the same and the bulk of the deck is in the upper curve, that's why I was hesitant to run it the first time.
KJ should still be fine, deck has a tonne of ETB triggers, I'd only be concerned if the creatures weren't good enough to copy, as is creature quality is very high.
I'm somewhat concerned the deck has issues in the lower curve. How did it play out in the early turns for you?
Card draw is an issue, hence I was thinking Sensei's Diving Top might be necessary. This is an aggro deck, but it is red, it lacks the other off-blue draw spells. What do you think?
I also play Weiss Schwarz, Chaos, Vanguard and Wixoss.
Weiss Schwarz Sets
Accel World, Angel Beats, Familiar of Zero, Gargantia on the Verdurous Planet, Guilty Crown, Kill La Kill, Robotics;Notes, Sword Art Online.
Chaos Partners
Arpeggio of Blue Steel: Iona, Kirishima, Kongou.
Dangan Ronpa: Asahina, Togami.
Freezing: Vibration: Chiffon, Satelizer.
Vanguard Clans Favoured
Angel Feather, Dark Irregulars, Genesis, Neonecter, Pale Moon, Shadow Paladins, Tachikaze.
Incubator certainly works well with the deck, although I would be hesitant to use it, are you intending it as a one hit alpha strike thing? As artifacts generate the bulk of the tokens normally.
I feel like this is one of those cards where you are living the dream if you get it off and say have anger in GY or fervor/web/urabrask out. This brings the deck to combo status effectively. I see why you need the mana.
It's really against my play style, but damn it sounds fun getting it off, so I'd give it it a try. I'll be trying the same myself and there are enough artifacts to kill multiple people.
I never had Goblin Marshall, I had War Marshall, heh, but I agree the slot is the same and the bulk of the deck is in the upper curve, that's why I was hesitant to run it the first time.
KJ should still be fine, deck has a tonne of ETB triggers, I'd only be concerned if the creatures weren't good enough to copy, as is creature quality is very high.
I'm somewhat concerned the deck has issues in the lower curve. How did it play out in the early turns for you?
Card draw is an issue, hence I was thinking Sensei's Diving Top might be necessary. This is an aggro deck, but it is red, it lacks the other off-blue draw spells. What do you think?
Sorry I tried to ninja edit my previous post to take out the flute instead of the war marshal. Unfortunately you got to reading and quoting before I got the alters done.
As far as Sensei's Divining Top goes... it is card selection not card draw. I have always found it to be at its best in decks with a high number of shuffle effects so tons of fetchlands, land ramping, creature tutoring. In a deck like this that lacks a lot of those you get a stagnant pool of 3 cards on top fairly quickly. I am not a big fan of the card unless you can really manipulate shuffling your library almost at will.
The problem is that most of the straight up draw a card artifacts cost like 2+ mana per turn to draw a card or come in at like 6+ mana which blows... I am having a hard time finding more draw that I like for this.
EDIT: as far as the high curve goes that was sort of one of the reasons I tried bringing up the low mana stone count. Getting 1-2 mana ahead in the early game really helps out. I have also been helped out a bit by the fact that I am running a mono R agro deck which doesnt tend to draw as much out of the gate hate as a lot of other decks. My meta is sort of catching on to the explosiveness of this deck though so that might change.
EDIT 2:Myr Incubator is sort of cool because you dont have to pick how much you exile until after opponents declare a response or not. So if nobody blows up your In the Web of War then you can just do it for the max and run people over. Also it can be triggered at instant speed so we can do it at the end of opponent's turns and not worry about the haste. It would work well with a number of other things including Vicious Shadows, Tears of Rage, Marton, and even Warp World with 20 bodies on the field would be amazing. Plus it is an artifact itself so we can use Goblin Welder to recur it if it dies before being used.
Sorry I tried to ninja edit my previous post to take out the flute instead of the war marshal. Unfortunately you got to reading and quoting before I got the alters done.
As far as Sensei's Divining Top goes... it is card selection not card draw. I have always found it to be at its best in decks with a high number of shuffle effects so tons of fetchlands, land ramping, creature tutoring. In a deck like this that lacks a lot of those you get a stagnant pool of 3 cards on top fairly quickly. I am not a big fan of the card unless you can really manipulate shuffling your library almost at will.
The problem is that most of the straight up draw a card artifacts cost like 2+ mana per turn to draw a card or come in at like 6+ mana which blows... I am having a hard time finding more draw that I like for this.
Well, flute is fine removal too, I'm not exactly fan of it. Madblind Mountain can stimulate shuffling.
Jayemdae Tome or overcosted things like it may be only option. I really need to include Memory Jar in my list, card filtered (Scroll Rack too) might be enough.
Edit: You've made a few changes now, I doubt this list can be stopped entirely. Marton+haste enabler+large number of tokens is virtually combo early or late game.
Edit2: You're persuading me about the Incubator too, I almost need my own thread to keep my list updated heh. I think you need to keep greaves if Marton disappears your myrs can't attack.
I also play Weiss Schwarz, Chaos, Vanguard and Wixoss.
Weiss Schwarz Sets
Accel World, Angel Beats, Familiar of Zero, Gargantia on the Verdurous Planet, Guilty Crown, Kill La Kill, Robotics;Notes, Sword Art Online.
Chaos Partners
Arpeggio of Blue Steel: Iona, Kirishima, Kongou.
Dangan Ronpa: Asahina, Togami.
Freezing: Vibration: Chiffon, Satelizer.
Vanguard Clans Favoured
Angel Feather, Dark Irregulars, Genesis, Neonecter, Pale Moon, Shadow Paladins, Tachikaze.
Well, flute is fine removal too, I'm not exactly fan of it. Madblind Mountain can stimulate shuffling.
Jayemdae Tome or overcosted things like it may be only option. I really need to include Memory Jar in my list, card filtered (Scroll Rack too) might be enough.
Edit: You've made a few changes now, I doubt this list can be stopped entirely. Marton+haste enabler+large number of tokens is virtually combo early or late game.
Edit2: You're persuading me about the Incubator too, I almost need my own thread to keep my list updated heh. I think you need to keep greaves if Marton disappears your myrs can't attack.
I just dont see the possiblility to bringing up our shuffle effects to the point where I would want to use the top in here.
As for some better card draw I would probably use Illuminated Folio I guess.... I just dont know because most of the remaining card draw options sort of blow.
I think the Myr Incubator has a lot more potential to kill opponents than Pentavus ever really has. I think it is a very solid card that can work well with our primary plan as well as being a solid plan B if need be. Sure it is a bit risky, however if there are a few key cards you want to leave behind you totally can with the card. However when you are looking to drop and activate the Incubator you are probably beyond needing mana stones and it can probably just sweep up most of the remaining artifacts.
I will likely see if I cant get Lightning Greaves back into my list as it was sort of an earlier casualty. I still think I would rather have most of my other haste outlets over it but it works alright...
EDIT: also it would probably be good to get your own list going in its own thread as well just to keep your own build straight.
EDIT 2: I finally figured out what one of my differences between my net version and my real version is. I have Wayfarer's Bauble in my real version. I am having sort of a tough time deciding if I would like the Bauble over one of my current options or not... Currently it cannot stay without making room from something else so I think a quick fix will be to just stop running it and consider it again later if I think I need it again.
So I got in 3 games last night with Marton. We only had 6 people show up so it was sort of larger than we wanted to do a FFA for and smaller than we like branching into 2 games so we did a game of Emperor EDH which is always a bit interesting...
My teammates for this were Geist of Saint Traft (sort of a medium level of competativeness... He has a good deck but I dont think Geist is a very good commander for multiplayer we sat him as our emperor for this because he had the most control out of the 3 of us.) and Brion Stoutarm (in my eyes a poor choice of commanders due to his colors and he is far from tuned so I would say low competative as our other flanker.)
My opponents are starting with across from me: Mayael the Anima (medium high competative, he has been at this deck for a good year now and it has come along nicely. Probably the most competative player other than myself at the table sitting across from me as an opposing flanker.) Kaervek the Merciless (medium low competative as their commander. He has a good setup as an emeporor as he is running sort of a control deck but still he is far from having the deck tuned up. He is still sort of a new magic player so he runs a lot of things that arent so competative in multiplayer. Still he has tons of spot removal so he is fine at the emperor roll here.) and Glissa, the Traitor (I would say sort of medium low competative he runs it as this odd infect deck and it like never works... I think he needs more ramp in his deck as he always seems to have mana issues.)
Overall I think we are sitting fairly well as the competitiveness of each deck across from each other feels about the same level of competative.
Mayael the Anima gets off to a great ramp start and I am afraid of him flipping lolz like. Luckily my emperor peels an Arrest just in time and stalls Mayael a lot.
I manage to draw the lands I need to hit the Thran Dynamo on turn 4.
Turn 5 I flop my Gauntlet of Power + Marton Stromgald into play. At this point my opponent considers dropping his Austere Command but refrains for whatever reason I think because of how hard it would hit his own team. He figures he is fine for a turn.
Turn 6 I drop Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker into play then Chancellor of the Forge. I kick a copy of Chancellor into play in response to the first Chancellor's activation and kick out this lolz token wave with like 15 tokens. I run my opponent over on the spot and kill his emperor next turn as they have no wraths.
GAME 2: For some reason or another we swap Brion Stoutarm into our Emperor spot... I dont like it one bit as his control sucks but I suppose he could just fling for the kill so maybe it will work...
I get some sort of crap ramp and some issues drawing land. I stagger to 4 mana and drop a Solemn Simulacrum intending originally to abuse him with my Kiki-Jiki in hand. Unfortunately the opposing emperor drops a Nevinyrral's Disk which really gives me no reason to drop a bunch more mana stones into the oncoming blow. Gheist is owning up on glissa like its nobody's business at this point so I know it is soon to come. Mayael the Anima drops a Primeval Titan on what was like my turn 4... damn his ramp.
I go again and pull a Hoarding Dragon and figure why not as everything is about to blow anyways so I drop him in and go find a mana stone to help me recover.
GAME 3: I force them to swap rolls as Geist was doing a much better job for us as emperor with his removal package.
Sort of a crappy start but I manage to drop a few lands. I get stalled for a turn or two at 4 mana but due to an Oblation on Mayael the Anima he is crawling too. He manages like 0 ramp as well so he just slow rolls his way into the game.
I drop an Emrakul's Hatcher in at 5 mana and soak up 2 of them to drop and equip a skullclamp that I wanted to make sure I got some draw off of. All of my tokens are gone now but I got some cards out of it and the opposing commander has Olivia Voldaren in play anyways so I didn't really expect them to last a whole turn.
I slow roll for a few more turns Geist is beating up on Mayael with his equipped / enchanted commander for a few turns. I do what I can but I am getting some odd draws. I manage to save myself from a Steel Helkite owning my board with Insurrection + Spawning Pit.
It ends up being Geist who ends up just beating Mayael to death as finally he straps an Eldrazi Conscription to his commander and delivers the lethal blow. At this point I am free to drop my Warp World that I had been holding back since Mayael is full of lolz fattieness that I couldn't afford to allow him to flip. I get a 20 point flip and get tons of goodies such as Eldrazi Monument and some other fun things. I have plenty of mana so I dump it into Marton in play equip him to a sword of Light and Shadow just for some extra protection and dump Siege-Gang Commander + Ib Halfheart, Goblin Tactician into play for good measure. My opponents concede seeing that they had already lost.
The games were fun and the deck did good for me. I had however hoped more of our competitive guys would show up... I had really only one worthy player across from me and I had hoped to test the deck vs a larger group of good players.
I think I need to reassess my thoughts on Rally the Horde though.... It was very underwhelming when I cast it as it spawned like 4 guys for me and could have done like 0-2 very easily... I think it might be a bit too random but I think I should do some math on it to figure out the expected return on it...
Also in every game I could have used more mana / more ramp so I am thinking about trying to do something about that as well... Upping my land count to 40 would be useful as would adding Wayfarer's Bauble and some similar type effects.
I bet Inkmoth Nexus could snipe some suprise kills with Marton. I fell in love with that card recently.
I had thought about it for a while but then I realized that if I have Marton swinging with enough power to actually make Inkmoth Nexus a real threat then I probably have like 100 damage output online anyways and probably dont need it...
I agree though the Nexus is a really mean surprise kill on occasion. But I think it might be better with a more focused pump effect strategy.
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I have officially moved to MTGNexus. I just wanted to let people know as my response time to salvation decks being bumped is very hit or miss.
The Devils are incredible. You really need to try them out to understand how good they are. They provide incredible recursion and utility in red.
I think the Mastery just has overall great synergy with your deck. It deserves a shot in the spotlight for sure.
The Vat I can see being good here. An extra body on the attack and stealing other people's creature and then Kikiing them could provide for strong board advantage.
These are the main cards I'd like to fit into the deck for now, as I see them being beneficial to your strategy.
Emmara is like the worst parts of Legends and Homelands got pregnant, aborted the fetus, tossed it in the trashcan, set it on fire and wrapped the corpse in a Dragon's Maze pack wrapper.
The Devils are incredible. You really need to try them out to understand how good they are. They provide incredible recursion and utility in red.
I think the Mastery just has overall great synergy with your deck. It deserves a shot in the spotlight for sure.
The Vat I can see being good here. An extra body on the attack and stealing other people's creature and then Kikiing them could provide for strong board advantage.
These are the main cards I'd like to fit into the deck for now, as I see them being beneficial to your strategy.
Ok... I think I am on board for cutting Rally the Horde... I think the payoff is just too random and will likely be low on average.
Charmbreaker Devils is cool and all... but I only have 10 targets for him to even potentially return to hand... Some of the targets are sort of situational cards as well so it is hard to peel them off turn after turn to good effect. I like the pickup value but I dont know...
Elemental Mastery obviously the issues here being the potential to be 2 for 1ed. I like the effect but I dont have that many big creatures I can even strap it onto in this list... It could be sort of cool and it could explode in my face... If I got to keep the tokens beyond EOT... then absolutely. However the temporary tokens aspect of it sort of sucks. I think it will stay on my maybe list for a bit yet...
Mimic Vat This is probably the closest of the three cards you mentioned that I might consider adding. I would love to hijack a Primeval Titan or something. Even dropping my own token production creatures onto it would be great. I do like it a lot and I think it is the most likely out of the three to be added. That said though I also sort of wanted to find a way to increase my land count and ramp a bit so we will see...
Wayfarer's Bauble and 2x Mountains are also sort of on my wishlist for this deck. I will think it over for a bit and see what I come up with.
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I have officially moved to MTGNexus. I just wanted to let people know as my response time to salvation decks being bumped is very hit or miss.
Hmm. I didn't even notice that you had so few spells. I think I'd be comfortable running the Devils even with 10 (the lack of multiple targets can, in fact, make it better) but I agree that Vat is the best add for now.
You're trying to bump your land count to 40? Why, exactly?
Emmara is like the worst parts of Legends and Homelands got pregnant, aborted the fetus, tossed it in the trashcan, set it on fire and wrapped the corpse in a Dragon's Maze pack wrapper.
Hmm. I didn't even notice that you had so few spells. I think I'd be comfortable running the Devils even with 10 (the lack of multiple targets can, in fact, make it better) but I agree that Vat is the best add for now.
You're trying to bump your land count to 40? Why, exactly?
I have been having some troubles getting smooth mana in the first few turns of the game and I always want more land later in the game as it allows for bigger X mana spells or chaining together multiple good spells in a turn. I almost pulled off Insurrection + Mogg Infestation in the same turn which would have been nice as there were very few creatures on the board but they were important ones.
But generally speaking I have been having some tough times getting up to the 6+ mana mark quickly. I had a few games where I sort of stalled out at 3-4 mana and it really blows.
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I have officially moved to MTGNexus. I just wanted to let people know as my response time to salvation decks being bumped is very hit or miss.
I have been having some troubles getting smooth mana in the first few turns of the game and I always want more land later in the game as it allows for bigger X mana spells or chaining together multiple good spells in a turn. I almost pulled off Insurrection + Mogg Infestation in the same turn which would have been nice as there were very few creatures on the board but they were important ones.
But generally speaking I have been having some tough times getting up to the 6+ mana mark quickly. I had a few games where I sort of stalled out at 3-4 mana and it really blows.
That's fair. If anything, I'd like to say that I prefer more lands to less. Rarely have I ever had an experience where drawing lands has ever disappointed me (unless I'm in intense top-deck mode). How about more manafacts?
Emmara is like the worst parts of Legends and Homelands got pregnant, aborted the fetus, tossed it in the trashcan, set it on fire and wrapped the corpse in a Dragon's Maze pack wrapper.
That's fair. If anything, I'd like to say that I prefer more lands to less. Rarely have I ever had an experience where drawing lands has ever disappointed me (unless I'm in intense top-deck mode). How about more manafacts?
The mana stones have done a good job for me so far... But I am waiting for that lolz you are out of the game from an Oblivon Stone / Austere Command... I am running like 25 artifacts in this list and it has got me a bit worried about these effects. Obviously the normal response is dont over extend but I think that is sort of the idea behind Warp World is overextending plus this deck can never have enough mana.
I was sort of thinking about Wayfarer's Bauble as it is a fast fix and it doesn't leave a target to blow out behind when it is done.
Perhaps I will take small steps on my land count. Perhaps if I can make room I do a mountain and the bauble as that is 2 more mana sources??? I just need to find another card to cut for them to go in. Currently Rally the Horde is out though.
I would also sort of like to see Mimic Vat make the list too if possible.
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I have officially moved to MTGNexus. I just wanted to let people know as my response time to salvation decks being bumped is very hit or miss.
Armillary Sphere could work well too. I run it in my black and red mono-builds and even some two colour non-green builds.
I sort of thought about Knollspine Dragon for this deck. Coming in after a "Marton-assault" (you should rename the deck to this :)) can net you tremendous CA if you haven't already won.
Dragon Mage could also work here. In my experience, he's been better than expected.
I'm kind of grabbing at straws here, but extra CA is always nice in decks without U.
Emmara is like the worst parts of Legends and Homelands got pregnant, aborted the fetus, tossed it in the trashcan, set it on fire and wrapped the corpse in a Dragon's Maze pack wrapper.
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Honestly in my very first draft of this deck I played Myojin of Infinite Rage and Keldon Firebombers in the deck along with other land disruption effects such as Ruination and Blood Moon effects. Honestly all in all I do like these effects for red decks but this deck needs tons of mana to fuel the big token waves. Even if I were to drop and activate a Myojin, people often save a spot removal for when I go to attack so it is sort of a big risk to blow up my land and have them strip my commander.
In the end I decided to go away from mass LD because I felt it was better to be able to drop another wave of creatures and not blow out my own resource. Also I would probably need to put a lot more mana stones in the deck if I were to rely more on blowing up lands regularly.
A few that I have sort of struggled with myself out of your list are:
Lightning Greaves Personally I feel like the global haste outlets are just a lot more powerful... They give a whole token swarm the ability to come out swinging and if you have an all your creatures have haste I think it is as good if not better than these effects. If you play Marton and try to equip this it would be the same result as if you were to play him and try to attack... if opponents have the spot removal he will just be eaten by it then.
Swiftfoot Boots Same issue with the greaves plus this one costs mana to equip.
Sword of Feast and Famine I just dont see this doing a ton for this deck... I guess if you have a lot of mana intensive per turn mana spawners it can help but I have never been as big a fan of this sword in comparison to the other two in EDH. Dont get me wrong I love this in 60 card 1v1 and I play it a ton in Standard but it just doesnt feel as powerful in EDH.
Dolmen Gate I think I have mentioned my issues with this card a few times now...
Yuan Shao, the Indecisive I had originally thought this was a Goblin War Drums effect on legs but now on reviewing it I like him a lot less... When do you need to worry about a creature being double blocked in this deck? I just dont see him being that useful now...
Aggravated Assault I have sort of an issue with extra attack phase effects in here... If you are using it to bank on Marton attacking with a bunch of guys multiple times I think you are getting your hopes up a bit too high. I think that Savage Beating is probably the best of these effects to say the least but I just dont see them panning out as well as a plan B. If I were to go with one of them though the surprise 4x damage off of Savage Beating though would probably be the way I would go.
Breath of Fury it is cute but omg its so easily stopped. If they have a blocker or if anyone has a maze effect or spot removal it is put to a stop. I think it is a bit far fetched to expect all that much from this card.
I also feel like you might consider adding more cheap mana stones... This deck can be a moster to get going and extra mana is a great dump for the x token effects. Our lists do look fairly similar though.
EDIT: I could see perhaps keeping just the Lightning Greaves but I sort of feel like Swiftfoot Boots might be overkill. I like the boots as an option for Godo to go get as well but I would probably keep it to just one of these personally.
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[Modern] Allies
I can understand the breath of fury, it is living the dream if you connect more than once. I'll remove it I guess for an extra mana rock.
Yuan Shao, the Indecisive may not work, but he does keep non-marton guys alive. An alternative I had that Yank also did was Bedlam so you always connect. I want to try out this guy, partially just to use a P3K guy in a deck of mine, however lame that sounds.
The assault works well with SoFaF, the infamous I win combo. Three swords is straining deck slightly with too much equipment I guess. I'd like to keep the swords, but I have so much equipment bogging it down right now, I 'll remove the shield for the dragon I believe.
I am a fan of Dolmen Gate, I'll try get a game or two in this weekend and then I can tell you if I agree with you on it.
Thank you for the feedback so far.
Edit:
-1 Breath of Fury +1 Worn Power Stone
-1 Shield of Kaldra +1 Hoarding Dragon
Main Decks
Diaochan, Iroas, God of Victory, Kaalia, Marton, Ulasht, Volrath,
Kaervek, Prossh, Titania
Amusing or Themed
Progenitus
Pauper Guildmages
Azorius Boros Dimir Golgari Gruul Izzet Korozda
Orzhov Rakdos Rix Maadi Selesyna Simic Skarrg Zameck
I also play Weiss Schwarz, Chaos, Vanguard and Wixoss.
Accel World, Angel Beats, Familiar of Zero, Gargantia on the Verdurous Planet, Guilty Crown, Kill La Kill, Robotics;Notes, Sword Art Online.
Chaos Partners
Arpeggio of Blue Steel: Iona, Kirishima, Kongou.
Dangan Ronpa: Asahina, Togami.
Freezing: Vibration: Chiffon, Satelizer.
Vanguard Clans Favoured
Angel Feather, Dark Irregulars, Genesis, Neonecter, Pale Moon, Shadow Paladins, Tachikaze.
Wixoss - Just trial decks for now!
I am hoping to get a bunch of testing in with my deck. It is becoming one of my favorite lists and if I can get in enough play to iron out some issues I wouldnt mind turning this guy into my next primer.
Still I think I need to get a lot more playtesting in personally before I can even come close to writing up enough info for a primer. I will see what I can do though.
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[Modern] Allies
It needs a lot more before that, heh.
I feel the mana base could do more, but it depends how much one wants to stretch it. It could even be idea to force valakut slightly more as an alternative build.
I'm thinking of Mimic Vat right now as an option instead of Sculpting Steel, which leads to idea of maybe including High Market to work with it. I will put in the vat, as it poses question of saving your token generators, even when they die.
One thing primer should note is the deck can be built in varying degrees of aggressiveness.
Main Decks
Diaochan, Iroas, God of Victory, Kaalia, Marton, Ulasht, Volrath,
Kaervek, Prossh, Titania
Amusing or Themed
Progenitus
Pauper Guildmages
Azorius Boros Dimir Golgari Gruul Izzet Korozda
Orzhov Rakdos Rix Maadi Selesyna Simic Skarrg Zameck
I also play Weiss Schwarz, Chaos, Vanguard and Wixoss.
Accel World, Angel Beats, Familiar of Zero, Gargantia on the Verdurous Planet, Guilty Crown, Kill La Kill, Robotics;Notes, Sword Art Online.
Chaos Partners
Arpeggio of Blue Steel: Iona, Kirishima, Kongou.
Dangan Ronpa: Asahina, Togami.
Freezing: Vibration: Chiffon, Satelizer.
Vanguard Clans Favoured
Angel Feather, Dark Irregulars, Genesis, Neonecter, Pale Moon, Shadow Paladins, Tachikaze.
Wixoss - Just trial decks for now!
I think that Elemental Mastery would be great tech in a deck like this. I don't like that it relies on your board to do well, but it could be so explosive that it just outright wins you the game. I think it's worth considering.
I think I will put sort of a potential cards currently not in use section on the first page.
As for the info on the primer... it would be a few months out yet but if the deck continues to do as good as it has been for me I could see it happening. One of the amazing parts of this deck is that Marton is such a huge killer just by attacking once. It uses a token swarm mentality but it does not require any specific type of creatures so unlike the usual red tribal we can just put the best of the spawners in the list and run off of that. There is obviously a lot of testing and information that will need to be added long before a primer is even consider plus I would probably list 2 different versions assuming my current list continues to work out. One list would contain a more aggressive list and the second would list one with more answers.
Mimic Vat might be a good potential add to the list. Along the same thought train I really like Nim Deathmantle for this deck too. It would give Marton some evasion plus the ability to self rez onto the equipment which would be bad ass. Plus it is an equipment so Godo can tutor it.... man I think I need to make some room for that
Mogg Infestation is another card I would like to do some testing for as I think it has great potential in this list. I think the Elemental Mastery has great potential but it also has a good chance of me falling on my face from spot removal... I will continue to consider it though...
I will throw some possibilities arround for a bit and see what I can come up with...
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[Modern] Allies
Unfortunately it is really really slow... I think I have several other removal staples that I would be inclined to run before I would consider the spine. It is cute with the Welder but it is an expensive ass card outside of that.
Plus I am running removal light in this current build. I could see it being a decent add though if someone wanted to run a more controlling build but even then it would be fairly down on my list... Cute interaction at the least.
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[Modern] Allies
We were discussing Mogg Infestation, it could be very interesting and is worths queezing in. The Mastery could be usable, auras always have risk of being two for oned, but some of bigger creatures are certainly targets.
Main Decks
Diaochan, Iroas, God of Victory, Kaalia, Marton, Ulasht, Volrath,
Kaervek, Prossh, Titania
Amusing or Themed
Progenitus
Pauper Guildmages
Azorius Boros Dimir Golgari Gruul Izzet Korozda
Orzhov Rakdos Rix Maadi Selesyna Simic Skarrg Zameck
I also play Weiss Schwarz, Chaos, Vanguard and Wixoss.
Accel World, Angel Beats, Familiar of Zero, Gargantia on the Verdurous Planet, Guilty Crown, Kill La Kill, Robotics;Notes, Sword Art Online.
Chaos Partners
Arpeggio of Blue Steel: Iona, Kirishima, Kongou.
Dangan Ronpa: Asahina, Togami.
Freezing: Vibration: Chiffon, Satelizer.
Vanguard Clans Favoured
Angel Feather, Dark Irregulars, Genesis, Neonecter, Pale Moon, Shadow Paladins, Tachikaze.
Wixoss - Just trial decks for now!
What do you guys think of the following change:
Shield of Kaldra -> Nim Deathmantle
The shield was sort of lackluster and I want the Darksteel Plate over it almost every time. The deathmantle gives a different sort of protection though and we can use it on creatures that are not equiped with it. It would also be great to sac or kill one of our token producing creatures just to strap it to the deathmantle and respawn another wave. Plus it would make Marton a black intimidating zombie... I mean how funny is that image.
I will keep looking to see if I can find something I want to cut for Mogg Infestation. I like how it sort of gives us a conditional wrath effect potentially which can also double our own tokens in play which is bad ass. I think it will be a good potential control style card for the deck.
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[Modern] Allies
I like the Nim Deathmantle, it's a good idea for your list, which currently has fewer equipment. I feel it clashes with Mimic Vat for me as you don't want too much stuff in recursion slot, so I'll get some experience under my belt and then see if I would make same change.
I'll scour your list for maybe a weak card.
Edit: Citanul Flute seems very expensive for this deck, you'll rarely search and cast it and people will be able to respond either crushing board state or countering. Maybe that would be card?
Main Decks
Diaochan, Iroas, God of Victory, Kaalia, Marton, Ulasht, Volrath,
Kaervek, Prossh, Titania
Amusing or Themed
Progenitus
Pauper Guildmages
Azorius Boros Dimir Golgari Gruul Izzet Korozda
Orzhov Rakdos Rix Maadi Selesyna Simic Skarrg Zameck
I also play Weiss Schwarz, Chaos, Vanguard and Wixoss.
Accel World, Angel Beats, Familiar of Zero, Gargantia on the Verdurous Planet, Guilty Crown, Kill La Kill, Robotics;Notes, Sword Art Online.
Chaos Partners
Arpeggio of Blue Steel: Iona, Kirishima, Kongou.
Dangan Ronpa: Asahina, Togami.
Freezing: Vibration: Chiffon, Satelizer.
Vanguard Clans Favoured
Angel Feather, Dark Irregulars, Genesis, Neonecter, Pale Moon, Shadow Paladins, Tachikaze.
Wixoss - Just trial decks for now!
I was also considering another swap:
Pentavus -> Myr Incubator
Citanul Flute -> Mogg Infestation
Pentavus is a pain in the ass creature where it takes a lot to drop it and it takes a lot to move his counters into tokens. At about the same cost I could drop the Myr Incubator and activate for a potential like 20+ tokens swarm off of the Myr Incubator. Even if you just look at using the tokens with something smaller this feels like a huge wincon and more likely to blow people out of the water than the lowly Pentavus. It seems like a good swap to me on paper considering how high my artifact count is in here...
Citanul Flute is sort of meh. It hasnt been impressive and the Infestation gives me sort of a dual purpose removal spell.
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[Modern] Allies
Incubator certainly works well with the deck, although I would be hesitant to use it, are you intending it as a one hit alpha strike thing? As artifacts generate the bulk of the tokens normally.
I feel like this is one of those cards where you are living the dream if you get it off and say have anger in GY or fervor/web/urabrask out. This brings the deck to combo status effectively. I see why you need the mana.
It's really against my play style, but damn it sounds fun getting it off, so I'd give it it a try. I'll be trying the same myself and there are enough artifacts to kill multiple people.
I never had Goblin Marshall, I had War Marshall, heh, but I agree the slot is the same and the bulk of the deck is in the upper curve, that's why I was hesitant to run it the first time.
KJ should still be fine, deck has a tonne of ETB triggers, I'd only be concerned if the creatures weren't good enough to copy, as is creature quality is very high.
I'm somewhat concerned the deck has issues in the lower curve. How did it play out in the early turns for you?
Card draw is an issue, hence I was thinking Sensei's Diving Top might be necessary. This is an aggro deck, but it is red, it lacks the other off-blue draw spells. What do you think?
Main Decks
Diaochan, Iroas, God of Victory, Kaalia, Marton, Ulasht, Volrath,
Kaervek, Prossh, Titania
Amusing or Themed
Progenitus
Pauper Guildmages
Azorius Boros Dimir Golgari Gruul Izzet Korozda
Orzhov Rakdos Rix Maadi Selesyna Simic Skarrg Zameck
I also play Weiss Schwarz, Chaos, Vanguard and Wixoss.
Accel World, Angel Beats, Familiar of Zero, Gargantia on the Verdurous Planet, Guilty Crown, Kill La Kill, Robotics;Notes, Sword Art Online.
Chaos Partners
Arpeggio of Blue Steel: Iona, Kirishima, Kongou.
Dangan Ronpa: Asahina, Togami.
Freezing: Vibration: Chiffon, Satelizer.
Vanguard Clans Favoured
Angel Feather, Dark Irregulars, Genesis, Neonecter, Pale Moon, Shadow Paladins, Tachikaze.
Wixoss - Just trial decks for now!
Sorry I tried to ninja edit my previous post to take out the flute instead of the war marshal. Unfortunately you got to reading and quoting before I got the alters done.
As far as Sensei's Divining Top goes... it is card selection not card draw. I have always found it to be at its best in decks with a high number of shuffle effects so tons of fetchlands, land ramping, creature tutoring. In a deck like this that lacks a lot of those you get a stagnant pool of 3 cards on top fairly quickly. I am not a big fan of the card unless you can really manipulate shuffling your library almost at will.
The problem is that most of the straight up draw a card artifacts cost like 2+ mana per turn to draw a card or come in at like 6+ mana which blows... I am having a hard time finding more draw that I like for this.
EDIT: as far as the high curve goes that was sort of one of the reasons I tried bringing up the low mana stone count. Getting 1-2 mana ahead in the early game really helps out. I have also been helped out a bit by the fact that I am running a mono R agro deck which doesnt tend to draw as much out of the gate hate as a lot of other decks. My meta is sort of catching on to the explosiveness of this deck though so that might change.
EDIT 2: Myr Incubator is sort of cool because you dont have to pick how much you exile until after opponents declare a response or not. So if nobody blows up your In the Web of War then you can just do it for the max and run people over. Also it can be triggered at instant speed so we can do it at the end of opponent's turns and not worry about the haste. It would work well with a number of other things including Vicious Shadows, Tears of Rage, Marton, and even Warp World with 20 bodies on the field would be amazing. Plus it is an artifact itself so we can use Goblin Welder to recur it if it dies before being used.
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[Modern] Allies
Well, flute is fine removal too, I'm not exactly fan of it. Madblind Mountain can stimulate shuffling.
Jayemdae Tome or overcosted things like it may be only option. I really need to include Memory Jar in my list, card filtered (Scroll Rack too) might be enough.
Edit: You've made a few changes now, I doubt this list can be stopped entirely. Marton+haste enabler+large number of tokens is virtually combo early or late game.
Edit2: You're persuading me about the Incubator too, I almost need my own thread to keep my list updated heh. I think you need to keep greaves if Marton disappears your myrs can't attack.
Main Decks
Diaochan, Iroas, God of Victory, Kaalia, Marton, Ulasht, Volrath,
Kaervek, Prossh, Titania
Amusing or Themed
Progenitus
Pauper Guildmages
Azorius Boros Dimir Golgari Gruul Izzet Korozda
Orzhov Rakdos Rix Maadi Selesyna Simic Skarrg Zameck
I also play Weiss Schwarz, Chaos, Vanguard and Wixoss.
Accel World, Angel Beats, Familiar of Zero, Gargantia on the Verdurous Planet, Guilty Crown, Kill La Kill, Robotics;Notes, Sword Art Online.
Chaos Partners
Arpeggio of Blue Steel: Iona, Kirishima, Kongou.
Dangan Ronpa: Asahina, Togami.
Freezing: Vibration: Chiffon, Satelizer.
Vanguard Clans Favoured
Angel Feather, Dark Irregulars, Genesis, Neonecter, Pale Moon, Shadow Paladins, Tachikaze.
Wixoss - Just trial decks for now!
I just dont see the possiblility to bringing up our shuffle effects to the point where I would want to use the top in here.
As for some better card draw I would probably use Illuminated Folio I guess.... I just dont know because most of the remaining card draw options sort of blow.
I think the Myr Incubator has a lot more potential to kill opponents than Pentavus ever really has. I think it is a very solid card that can work well with our primary plan as well as being a solid plan B if need be. Sure it is a bit risky, however if there are a few key cards you want to leave behind you totally can with the card. However when you are looking to drop and activate the Incubator you are probably beyond needing mana stones and it can probably just sweep up most of the remaining artifacts.
I will likely see if I cant get Lightning Greaves back into my list as it was sort of an earlier casualty. I still think I would rather have most of my other haste outlets over it but it works alright...
EDIT: also it would probably be good to get your own list going in its own thread as well just to keep your own build straight.
EDIT 2: I finally figured out what one of my differences between my net version and my real version is. I have Wayfarer's Bauble in my real version. I am having sort of a tough time deciding if I would like the Bauble over one of my current options or not... Currently it cannot stay without making room from something else so I think a quick fix will be to just stop running it and consider it again later if I think I need it again.
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[Modern] Allies
So I got in 3 games last night with Marton. We only had 6 people show up so it was sort of larger than we wanted to do a FFA for and smaller than we like branching into 2 games so we did a game of Emperor EDH which is always a bit interesting...
My teammates for this were Geist of Saint Traft (sort of a medium level of competativeness... He has a good deck but I dont think Geist is a very good commander for multiplayer we sat him as our emperor for this because he had the most control out of the 3 of us.) and Brion Stoutarm (in my eyes a poor choice of commanders due to his colors and he is far from tuned so I would say low competative as our other flanker.)
My opponents are starting with across from me: Mayael the Anima (medium high competative, he has been at this deck for a good year now and it has come along nicely. Probably the most competative player other than myself at the table sitting across from me as an opposing flanker.) Kaervek the Merciless (medium low competative as their commander. He has a good setup as an emeporor as he is running sort of a control deck but still he is far from having the deck tuned up. He is still sort of a new magic player so he runs a lot of things that arent so competative in multiplayer. Still he has tons of spot removal so he is fine at the emperor roll here.) and Glissa, the Traitor (I would say sort of medium low competative he runs it as this odd infect deck and it like never works... I think he needs more ramp in his deck as he always seems to have mana issues.)
Overall I think we are sitting fairly well as the competitiveness of each deck across from each other feels about the same level of competative.
GAME 1: Opening hand was sort of lolz with mountain, mountain, Thran Dynamo, Gauntlet of Power, Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker, Chancellor of the Forge in hand after my partial mulligan.
Mayael the Anima gets off to a great ramp start and I am afraid of him flipping lolz like. Luckily my emperor peels an Arrest just in time and stalls Mayael a lot.
I manage to draw the lands I need to hit the Thran Dynamo on turn 4.
Turn 5 I flop my Gauntlet of Power + Marton Stromgald into play. At this point my opponent considers dropping his Austere Command but refrains for whatever reason I think because of how hard it would hit his own team. He figures he is fine for a turn.
Turn 6 I drop Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker into play then Chancellor of the Forge. I kick a copy of Chancellor into play in response to the first Chancellor's activation and kick out this lolz token wave with like 15 tokens. I run my opponent over on the spot and kill his emperor next turn as they have no wraths.
GAME 2: For some reason or another we swap Brion Stoutarm into our Emperor spot... I dont like it one bit as his control sucks but I suppose he could just fling for the kill so maybe it will work...
I get some sort of crap ramp and some issues drawing land. I stagger to 4 mana and drop a Solemn Simulacrum intending originally to abuse him with my Kiki-Jiki in hand. Unfortunately the opposing emperor drops a Nevinyrral's Disk which really gives me no reason to drop a bunch more mana stones into the oncoming blow. Gheist is owning up on glissa like its nobody's business at this point so I know it is soon to come. Mayael the Anima drops a Primeval Titan on what was like my turn 4... damn his ramp.
I go again and pull a Hoarding Dragon and figure why not as everything is about to blow anyways so I drop him in and go find a mana stone to help me recover.
The Primeval Titan swings at me and I double block. The disk goes off and blows everything up. Mayael the Anima drops a Tooth and Nail entwined into Blightsteel Colossus + Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre.... grrr its like turn 5 or 6. I have no answers so I roll over and die the next turn and our emperor rolls over and dies the next turn...
GAME 3: I force them to swap rolls as Geist was doing a much better job for us as emperor with his removal package.
Sort of a crappy start but I manage to drop a few lands. I get stalled for a turn or two at 4 mana but due to an Oblation on Mayael the Anima he is crawling too. He manages like 0 ramp as well so he just slow rolls his way into the game.
I drop an Emrakul's Hatcher in at 5 mana and soak up 2 of them to drop and equip a skullclamp that I wanted to make sure I got some draw off of. All of my tokens are gone now but I got some cards out of it and the opposing commander has Olivia Voldaren in play anyways so I didn't really expect them to last a whole turn.
I slow roll for a few more turns Geist is beating up on Mayael with his equipped / enchanted commander for a few turns. I do what I can but I am getting some odd draws. I manage to save myself from a Steel Helkite owning my board with Insurrection + Spawning Pit.
It ends up being Geist who ends up just beating Mayael to death as finally he straps an Eldrazi Conscription to his commander and delivers the lethal blow. At this point I am free to drop my Warp World that I had been holding back since Mayael is full of lolz fattieness that I couldn't afford to allow him to flip. I get a 20 point flip and get tons of goodies such as Eldrazi Monument and some other fun things. I have plenty of mana so I dump it into Marton in play equip him to a sword of Light and Shadow just for some extra protection and dump Siege-Gang Commander + Ib Halfheart, Goblin Tactician into play for good measure. My opponents concede seeing that they had already lost.
The games were fun and the deck did good for me. I had however hoped more of our competitive guys would show up... I had really only one worthy player across from me and I had hoped to test the deck vs a larger group of good players.
I think I need to reassess my thoughts on Rally the Horde though.... It was very underwhelming when I cast it as it spawned like 4 guys for me and could have done like 0-2 very easily... I think it might be a bit too random but I think I should do some math on it to figure out the expected return on it...
Also in every game I could have used more mana / more ramp so I am thinking about trying to do something about that as well... Upping my land count to 40 would be useful as would adding Wayfarer's Bauble and some similar type effects.
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[Modern] Allies
I had thought about it for a while but then I realized that if I have Marton swinging with enough power to actually make Inkmoth Nexus a real threat then I probably have like 100 damage output online anyways and probably dont need it...
I agree though the Nexus is a really mean surprise kill on occasion. But I think it might be better with a more focused pump effect strategy.
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[Modern] Allies
I second the removal of Rally the Horde. I love the flavour but the card is pretty terrible. In its spot, I would add in either Charmbreaker Devils, Elemental Mastery, or Mimic Vat.
The Devils are incredible. You really need to try them out to understand how good they are. They provide incredible recursion and utility in red.
I think the Mastery just has overall great synergy with your deck. It deserves a shot in the spotlight for sure.
The Vat I can see being good here. An extra body on the attack and stealing other people's creature and then Kikiing them could provide for strong board advantage.
These are the main cards I'd like to fit into the deck for now, as I see them being beneficial to your strategy.
Ok... I think I am on board for cutting Rally the Horde... I think the payoff is just too random and will likely be low on average.
Charmbreaker Devils is cool and all... but I only have 10 targets for him to even potentially return to hand... Some of the targets are sort of situational cards as well so it is hard to peel them off turn after turn to good effect. I like the pickup value but I dont know...
Elemental Mastery obviously the issues here being the potential to be 2 for 1ed. I like the effect but I dont have that many big creatures I can even strap it onto in this list... It could be sort of cool and it could explode in my face... If I got to keep the tokens beyond EOT... then absolutely. However the temporary tokens aspect of it sort of sucks. I think it will stay on my maybe list for a bit yet...
Mimic Vat This is probably the closest of the three cards you mentioned that I might consider adding. I would love to hijack a Primeval Titan or something. Even dropping my own token production creatures onto it would be great. I do like it a lot and I think it is the most likely out of the three to be added. That said though I also sort of wanted to find a way to increase my land count and ramp a bit so we will see...
Wayfarer's Bauble and 2x Mountains are also sort of on my wishlist for this deck. I will think it over for a bit and see what I come up with.
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[Modern] Allies
You're trying to bump your land count to 40? Why, exactly?
I have been having some troubles getting smooth mana in the first few turns of the game and I always want more land later in the game as it allows for bigger X mana spells or chaining together multiple good spells in a turn. I almost pulled off Insurrection + Mogg Infestation in the same turn which would have been nice as there were very few creatures on the board but they were important ones.
But generally speaking I have been having some tough times getting up to the 6+ mana mark quickly. I had a few games where I sort of stalled out at 3-4 mana and it really blows.
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[Modern] Allies
That's fair. If anything, I'd like to say that I prefer more lands to less. Rarely have I ever had an experience where drawing lands has ever disappointed me (unless I'm in intense top-deck mode). How about more manafacts?
The mana stones have done a good job for me so far... But I am waiting for that lolz you are out of the game from an Oblivon Stone / Austere Command... I am running like 25 artifacts in this list and it has got me a bit worried about these effects. Obviously the normal response is dont over extend but I think that is sort of the idea behind Warp World is overextending plus this deck can never have enough mana.
I was sort of thinking about Wayfarer's Bauble as it is a fast fix and it doesn't leave a target to blow out behind when it is done.
Perhaps I will take small steps on my land count. Perhaps if I can make room I do a mountain and the bauble as that is 2 more mana sources??? I just need to find another card to cut for them to go in. Currently Rally the Horde is out though.
I would also sort of like to see Mimic Vat make the list too if possible.
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[Modern] Allies
I sort of thought about Knollspine Dragon for this deck. Coming in after a "Marton-assault" (you should rename the deck to this :)) can net you tremendous CA if you haven't already won.
Dragon Mage could also work here. In my experience, he's been better than expected.
I'm kind of grabbing at straws here, but extra CA is always nice in decks without U.