What do you cut for bane? My issue with it is 1) the CMC, 2) the vulnerability to torpor orb. Many of our answers to artifacts/enchantments/sweepers are already on bodies, and I don't see that we could cut say, Austere Command safely.
To keep your curve right you're probably stuck cutting Consecrated Sphinx, Prime Speaker Zegana, or Sun Titan. None of those are really safe cuts as they're key to the card advantage engine section of the deck.
Bane of Progress also has some issues that it has really one mode of how it works. It really depends a little bit on how out of hand those effects tend to get in your meta as well. Ideally a deck like this uses spot removal for the larger problem effects so ideally you are not up to your eye balls with things that must be answered but if things regularly get out of hand its worth considering. If you are getting into situations where there are 3-5 problematic artifact / enchantments in play in one shot then I like it but most of the time when there is a big target that you want gone I just need that one effect gone.
Its nice that it comes in and stomps them all off and can be rezed / tutored nicely. It comes down to how often you find yourself looking for its effect though too. My experience was that someone had to be fairly dedicated to artifacts / enchantments for it to get enough out of hand that I needed it. With running Oblivion Stone and Austere Command with my spot removal I didn't find it to be something I needed often enough.
I think its a solid card but I think its one that I would rather see a reason to need to include it in my build than to automatically jump to using it I guess is where I was on it. This build isn't really heavy on artifacts / enchantments but Bane also has only one job and little to no flexibility in its effect.
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I have officially moved to MTGNexus. I just wanted to let people know as my response time to salvation decks being bumped is very hit or miss.
6 CMC in commander really isn't that big of a problem, and a lot of the deck is vulnerable to torpor orb. I guess its more of a meta call but honestly I always find myself playing against a deck that is heavy on artifacts and it really blows that person out of the game quickly. My list is different than ISBP's by like 5-6 cards so it would be hard to tell you what I cut for it :/
In general I do not like the wall that ISBP plays so I removed that first. I remember reading he doesn't play batterskull instead of it due to his group playing tower of the magistrate but nobody has that in any decks that I play against.
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Hi I'm Infecter4life and ironically I only play GBx decks.
In general I do not like the wall that ISBP plays so I removed that first. I remember reading he doesn't play batterskull instead of it due to his group playing tower of the magistrate but nobody has that in any decks that I play against.
I know this primer is retired, but for those who still keep up with it, is Fierce Empath still work it with only 4 targets?
I ran it for a long time. For me it was a useful toolbox still that allowed me to have a cheap creature I could abuse and pick up recursion, card draw, or an answer still. It did a lot of good work for me even with just 4 targets. The 1/1 itself was a source of potential abuse and it cheaply tutored me into other good plays in following turns.
That said, I wouldn't say it was a key card to the deck. I liked that it gave me some toolboxing and it was on a stick the right size for the right mana which was important for me.
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I have officially moved to MTGNexus. I just wanted to let people know as my response time to salvation decks being bumped is very hit or miss.
I know this primer is retired, but for those who still keep up with it, is Fierce Empath still work it with only 4 targets?
I ran it for a long time. For me it was a useful toolbox still that allowed me to have a cheap creature I could abuse and pick up recursion, card draw, or an answer still. It did a lot of good work for me even with just 4 targets. The 1/1 itself was a source of potential abuse and it cheaply tutored me into other good plays in following turns.
That said, I wouldn't say it was a key card to the deck. I liked that it gave me some toolboxing and it was on a stick the right size for the right mana which was important for me.
Yeah, I agree with exactly what you said. I was just recently putting this deck back together for the first time in a couple months, and realized when looking at the list the low amount of targets. I suppose it was just better when in had Sylvan Primordial to target but I ended up adding a couple more 6+ cmc creatures and kept it.
Personally, I have 7 targets for Fierce Empath, although lower-CMC lists probably run a couple less(most of mine are right at 6). A card being an effective copy of what is essentially whatever big creature you want on an ETB body can't be understated. Even with just 4 options for cards to be tutored, it is likely to be your most potent finishers in a list that lives off of attrition and recurring value. It's worth more than a straight creature tutor in a lot of situations to me; you can Skullclamp/Sun Titan/Reveillark it for additional value. It's a toolbox that hits what are likely the most impactful creatures in your list; there is nothing not to love.
I saw this too and wonder if its worth playing, I do play a couple blink effects in my build that ISBP doesn't such as resto, I mean at worst its just a super value card i.e This---->fierce empath--->another card, seems sweet as hell! Really sucks that it can only get green creatures though.
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Hi I'm Infecter4life and ironically I only play GBx decks.
That's a broad enough toolbox that I'd like to try it, especially as a replacement for a current lack-luster bane of progress as another option in the six-drop slot other than PSZ
In this list Harmonic Sliver, Eternal Witness, Fierce Empath, and Ooze are the best targets for the new bear. I'm not sure I'd run him though. At 6 CMC he isn't very cost efficient. But if I did run him, I might run him with Natural Order. Sac a Coiling Oracle to get the bear + Eternal Witness into play and something back to hand
Its nice that it comes with a toolbox, but one of the most important things to remember with any toolbox effect is identifying how diverse your toolbox is. For a long time I considered Natural Order in this list and part of what I didnt like about it was that the targets in green didnt varry much. Its probably a card I could have run later in my deck's lifespan given the diversity of things like gods and Prime Speaker Zegana that came later but early on it was sort of a question of one shot ramp or one shot removal for the most part.
Woodland Bellower has an issue if you ask me and that is that the tutor is going the wrong direction. You are paying 6 mana to tutor for a small creature within a limited scope (being green) and you are paying the extra mana for the additional body that comes with it. Granted, you can flicker abuse him if you build in a way that allows you to do such but my issue is still that you are paying 3 extra mana for an effect that does not scale and is limited to just green creatures 3cmc or less.
Overall, I think he is probably ok to run but I also don't think that strict beaters are that good in this format which makes me devalue him in general. If he tutored for any color creature I would find him a lot better obviously. As it stands, I think there is a decent bit of an option for his tutor targets but I also wonder if its worth running him over something like Wargate or some other tutor. He is a creature so he can be tutored, rezed, and abused but his toolbox is still sort of limited in the wrong direction in my opinion. I would much rather Fierce Empath personally and go for high end targets than to drop a high end target that finds a low end guy.
The biggest issue in my opinion is the lack of scope on his targets. Being limited to green creatures cut out a lot of the versatility I would have wanted to find him amazing.
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I have officially moved to MTGNexus. I just wanted to let people know as my response time to salvation decks being bumped is very hit or miss.
Hi, if you have extra turns, why not play Temporal Mastery, put it on top with a tutor and cast it for its miracle cost?
As ZenN said, we cant abuse it. Beyond that, it wont always be the first card drawn in a turn regardless of topdeck manipulation. If you get a card draw engine or even a one shot effect out its easy for the extra turns to end up in hand outside of the first card you draw each turn so I prefer to keep the cost low as a whole. I think the mastery is still a good option but its more of a budget friendly option assuming you want several extra turns in list but don't want to splurge for the expensive ones.
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I have officially moved to MTGNexus. I just wanted to let people know as my response time to salvation decks being bumped is very hit or miss.
Hey guys! Even though this primer is retired, I'm still having great fun with this deck. I'm unsure if the mods still want us to talk on this thread, but I'll just go ahead and post and they can remove if necessary. I can make a new thread about my list specifically if need be.
Anyway - my story. I ran a (nerfed) version of ISB's list for my LGS's EDH League and found it... lacking. Maybe it was my lack of play skill, but I kept getting blown out by combo decks (Melek, Zegana, Ghave, Damia specifically). It seemed like the goodstuff list I was running didnt quite get there. Because of that, I embraced the ugly truth, and decided to run some combo.
I'll first address the obvious - Bant isn't optimized to run combo. I am aware of this. That distinction belongs to BUG most likely. But the key about Jenara is that Combo isn't NECESSARY. I can still play a nice game of magic by beating people to death. She also doesn't scream combo like most BUG commanders.
The addition of combo wasn't really that difficult to incorporate, and it has worked great. I haven't yet lost a game with it, and I think it takes more skill and fun to play. Here is the list!
There are 2 important comboes in the deck (well 3, but one is pretty janky).
1. Classic Reveillark + Body Double + Venser, Shaper Savant + Mirror Entity. I won't explain it because ISB has already done a nice job of that, but this combo is pretty resilient. This combo almost ALWAYS requires Survival of the Fittest If you have 1 irrelevant creature in hand, it takes 12 mana (5 of it G, which is often hard to achieve) to complete - 1G to play survival, G to get Venser, G to get Mirror, G to get Body Double, G to get Reveillark, and 6 to evoke.
2. Ye old Palinchron + Phantasmal Image/Mirari's Wake/Deadeye Navigator/Vorinclex, Voice of Hunger. This is the main reason I run Vorinclex and Deadeye. Elesh Norn just didn't end games like Vorinclex, and Deadeye just works so well with other ETB creatures. As for Mirari's Wake, the logic is simple - a combo version is by nature more mana hungry, so I use this to supplant the need for mana.
What do I do with the infinite mana? I can usually 1 shot someone with Jenara at least. Admittedly this is a weaker combo, since I need to somehow get Sphinx's Revelation or Primespeaker Zegana to draw my deck (off an infinitely big Jenara). From there I usually just chain together extra turns to kill everyone. Any ETB creature paired with Deadeye will also do the trick. Note that this can actually be done with a lone Fierce Empath, but it costs 18 mana O.O
Cards to support combo - Prophet of Kruphix - I can actually combo off at instant speed with the Reveillark Combo, which is really nice. Boseiju, Who Shelters All - When you play in a meta with combo, it's really nice to see your Time Warp resolve. It also works nicely for tutors that put creatures directly into play (GSZ, Wargate, Chord of Calling). Tolaria West is usually used to get this or Pact of Negation Muddle the Mixture tutors for survival nicely. It also helps win counter wars over its resolution, and strengthens the tutor portion of the deck. Enlightened Tutor fetches Survival, so I run it over Tezzeret, the Seeker
WHERE I NEED HELP
Cards I want to add - Capsize - I like it as an additional wincon for the second combo, but I'm having trouble figuring out what to swap out. I'm thinking Cryptic Command, since it's so expensive and isn't usually cast to defend the combo. It's so versatile though... Karametra, God of Harvests- as a combo deck, we are more mana hungry, and she helps for this greatly. I cut her for Prophet, but I'm unsure of this cut. Can anyone see room for her in the list?
There's a decided lack of grave hate in my list as well, but I just can't see room for Tormod's Crypt. I already run Tolaria West, so my tutoring package is stronger than most, but I can't see room for it.
Any random comments on my decklist are welcome! I just wanted to keep the conversation going for Jenara - she's a great commander and the discussion deserves to be revived. You might be interested in my list if you like a bit more combo or feel that it is best for your meta.
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My Cubes - The Busted Cube. A fully functional, almost 100% custom cube. The project started out by asking "What if other colors got cards on the power level of Mana Drain,Ancestral Recall, and Time Walk?" Draft and enjoy!
Cryptic Command has always felt sort of expensive to cast as a counter to keep up all the time when not playing a draw / go style of deck in my opinion. There is mixed discussion on it but I think its hard to keep 1UUU up from a turn to turn basis until you want to use it if you aren't playing heavy flash. Mirari's Wake - keep in mind that it disables you from using the survival combo as it will keep your Mirror Entity from killing your creatures. Its also sort of hard to get it and or really support it or recover it with this deck. Its a good card but the deck doesn't have any real synergy with it and you cant really nicely tutor for or recover it and its value generation really doesnt start until the next turn.
In my opinion you could probably get away with bringing Karametra back for the wake and I would personally go to a cheaper counter than cryptic but there are those who disagree with my assessment of it. Its a strong card for sure but this deck is proactive enough that its usually annoying to keep the mana up for it repeatedly. If you are having issues with combo decks my suggestion is to bump up the amount of cheap counters and or removal you run. Dont worry about getting value from them, focus on countering them first and foremost.
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I have officially moved to MTGNexus. I just wanted to let people know as my response time to salvation decks being bumped is very hit or miss.
Here are the cards I can see coming out of your deck:
Acidic Slime - I can see combo'ing off with Deadeye and Palinchron here to wipe lands, but otherwise it's going to be an expensive removal spell. Clever Impersonator - It always hurts to cut value cards, but since it doesn't further a win or react very well, this is a value card. It's also a conditional one. Phyrexian Metamorph - Same as above. All the more reason you could cut at least one of these two. Sun Titan - I think this is just another value card, although probably better at it than the clones. I just don't see very many games being won in your group by tapping out at Sorcery for 6 and grinding combat steps. Sword of Fire and Ice - I understand FaF if you want to enable some Jenara aggression, but FaI just seems a tad slower than other options you could be running for draw volume. Stoneforge Mystic - I don't think you have very many equipments, and those you have are not very essential to your plan. If cards like this were Brainstorm instead, you would probably prefer one of the three cards you saw over SFM. Austere Command - Very expensive, reactive Sorcery. And you can probably just run a tutor for Oblivion Stone in its place, if you do need the wipe. Bribery - Just not very likely to advance your game plan. You seem prone not to be able to do the same things with opponents' creatures as they can if they are combo decks, also. Gilded Drake - I think you have enough creature removal, and if you wanted more I don't think theft is enough of a perk here to make up for the flexibility disadvantage over another Instant. Mirari's Wake - The mana is nice, but it's a little late to arrive. And as a third piece for the secondary combo in the deck, it's just not high priority. You will always tutor Survival instead, it seems like. Venser, the Sojourner - I think about the only thing worth blinking here is Fierce Empath, and it just doesn't seem that great at advancing your plan if you have to wait until end of turn to get the trigger.
There are a few other cards in this vein, just things that seem like "always run" for Goodstuff builds. But anything that doesn't draw cards, produce mana, interact well with opponents, or advance your win condition is a prime candidate to get cut.
These are cards I think you need:
Idyllic Tutor - for Survival Academy Rector - again, for Survival Kozilek, Butcher of Truth - The idea isn't to hardcast it, you would just have it in your deck so that when you get Survival out, you can force opponents who can Crypt you to act, then reshuffle into your deck. Ulamog or Kozi for this, and I prefer Kozi.
Otherwise, just a lot more draw spells. You can cut your land count down to 34-35 just by running 1cmc cantrips or land access like Life from the Loam, Tithe, etc. Consider running Cultivates over Wood Elves, and try to get more draw spells in the 3, 4, and 5 slots wherever your curve ends up being the lightest.
I agree with Jusstice here. It doesn't seem like you are playing ETB value like ISB's list and are instead playing deliberate Bant combo, which is fine, but it means that you need to commit to playing combo if that is your intent. Personally, I like ETB value, but I think that if you are committing to combo, you have to go all out if you intend to be effective at it. This is especially true if you're trying to play it against other combo. You can't half ass things. You have to go full ass.
Tjornan: The biggest weakness of Bant combo is the mana threshold required to go off. If you are going to go in the combo direction you must invest heavily in accelerants.
Gilded Drake should not be cut. It is a cheap, valuable, and recurrable answer. The best place to keep an opponent's Zur or Derevi is in play under your control.
This thread makes me want to rebuild my Jenara deck. I ended up taking it apart because I stopped playing French and in multiplayer the turns just took too long a lot of the time. Absolutely loved the deck though. I'm really enjoying the discussion about this bomb commander. I had a semi-voltron theme, with 4 Swords, Jitte, and a few others. I can't remember at this time.
None of those lands are fetch-able. that's the big problem with <> mana. There just aren't that many good ways to get it and in a pile of ninety-nine, three or four sources just isn't going to cut it.
A handful of mana rocks would help and they're probably easier to search for than lands without a Basic type. A deck that was easier on the mana could run Wastes which could be augmented by things like Evolving Wilds, but Bant can't run many lands that don't make colored mana.
To keep your curve right you're probably stuck cutting Consecrated Sphinx, Prime Speaker Zegana, or Sun Titan. None of those are really safe cuts as they're key to the card advantage engine section of the deck.
UW Ephara Hatebears [Primer], GB Gitrog Lands, BRU Inalla Combo-Control, URG Maelstrom Wanderer Landfall
Its nice that it comes in and stomps them all off and can be rezed / tutored nicely. It comes down to how often you find yourself looking for its effect though too. My experience was that someone had to be fairly dedicated to artifacts / enchantments for it to get enough out of hand that I needed it. With running Oblivion Stone and Austere Command with my spot removal I didn't find it to be something I needed often enough.
I think its a solid card but I think its one that I would rather see a reason to need to include it in my build than to automatically jump to using it I guess is where I was on it. This build isn't really heavy on artifacts / enchantments but Bane also has only one job and little to no flexibility in its effect.
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[Modern] Allies
In general I do not like the wall that ISBP plays so I removed that first. I remember reading he doesn't play batterskull instead of it due to his group playing tower of the magistrate but nobody has that in any decks that I play against.
I run Resolute Archangel. Card is absolutely phenomenal. Love it.
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Current Commanders: Derevi, Empyrial Tactician (coming soon) | [Primer] Sedris, the Traitor King | Maelstrom Wanderer | Najeela, the Blade Blossom | Yuriko, the Tiger's Shadow
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Retired Commanders: [Primer] Jenara, Asura of War | [Primer] Ghave, Guru of Spores | Freyalise, Llanowar's Fury | Saskia the Unyielding | Sydri, Galvanic Genius
I ran it for a long time. For me it was a useful toolbox still that allowed me to have a cheap creature I could abuse and pick up recursion, card draw, or an answer still. It did a lot of good work for me even with just 4 targets. The 1/1 itself was a source of potential abuse and it cheaply tutored me into other good plays in following turns.
That said, I wouldn't say it was a key card to the deck. I liked that it gave me some toolboxing and it was on a stick the right size for the right mana which was important for me.
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[Modern] Allies
EDH:
G[cEDH] Selvala, Heart of the StormG
URW[cEDH] Narset, the Last AirmericanURW
GWUSt. Jenara, the ArchangelGWU
UBGrimgrin, Chaos MarineUB
GOmnath, Mana BaronG
URWNarset, Justice League AmericaURW
GWUBAtraxa, Countess of CountersGWUB
GWUEstrid, Enbantress PrimeGWU
I saw this too and wonder if its worth playing, I do play a couple blink effects in my build that ISBP doesn't such as resto, I mean at worst its just a super value card i.e This---->fierce empath--->another card, seems sweet as hell! Really sucks that it can only get green creatures though.
Empath
Wood Elves
Sakura Tribe-Elder
Ooze
Farhaven Elf
Reclaimation Sage/Sliver
Eternal Witness
That's a broad enough toolbox that I'd like to try it, especially as a replacement for a current lack-luster bane of progress as another option in the six-drop slot other than PSZ
BRGrenzo, Dungeon Warden EDH
GAzusa, Always in a Rush EDH
GWUDerevi, Empyrial Warlord EDH
Trade thread on MOTL
Woodland Bellower has an issue if you ask me and that is that the tutor is going the wrong direction. You are paying 6 mana to tutor for a small creature within a limited scope (being green) and you are paying the extra mana for the additional body that comes with it. Granted, you can flicker abuse him if you build in a way that allows you to do such but my issue is still that you are paying 3 extra mana for an effect that does not scale and is limited to just green creatures 3cmc or less.
Overall, I think he is probably ok to run but I also don't think that strict beaters are that good in this format which makes me devalue him in general. If he tutored for any color creature I would find him a lot better obviously. As it stands, I think there is a decent bit of an option for his tutor targets but I also wonder if its worth running him over something like Wargate or some other tutor. He is a creature so he can be tutored, rezed, and abused but his toolbox is still sort of limited in the wrong direction in my opinion. I would much rather Fierce Empath personally and go for high end targets than to drop a high end target that finds a low end guy.
The biggest issue in my opinion is the lack of scope on his targets. Being limited to green creatures cut out a lot of the versatility I would have wanted to find him amazing.
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[Modern] Allies
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Current Commanders: Derevi, Empyrial Tactician (coming soon) | [Primer] Sedris, the Traitor King | Maelstrom Wanderer | Najeela, the Blade Blossom | Yuriko, the Tiger's Shadow
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Retired Commanders: [Primer] Jenara, Asura of War | [Primer] Ghave, Guru of Spores | Freyalise, Llanowar's Fury | Saskia the Unyielding | Sydri, Galvanic Genius
As ZenN said, we cant abuse it. Beyond that, it wont always be the first card drawn in a turn regardless of topdeck manipulation. If you get a card draw engine or even a one shot effect out its easy for the extra turns to end up in hand outside of the first card you draw each turn so I prefer to keep the cost low as a whole. I think the mastery is still a good option but its more of a budget friendly option assuming you want several extra turns in list but don't want to splurge for the expensive ones.
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[Modern] Allies
Anyway - my story. I ran a (nerfed) version of ISB's list for my LGS's EDH League and found it... lacking. Maybe it was my lack of play skill, but I kept getting blown out by combo decks (Melek, Zegana, Ghave, Damia specifically). It seemed like the goodstuff list I was running didnt quite get there. Because of that, I embraced the ugly truth, and decided to run some combo.
I'll first address the obvious - Bant isn't optimized to run combo. I am aware of this. That distinction belongs to BUG most likely. But the key about Jenara is that Combo isn't NECESSARY. I can still play a nice game of magic by beating people to death. She also doesn't scream combo like most BUG commanders.
The addition of combo wasn't really that difficult to incorporate, and it has worked great. I haven't yet lost a game with it, and I think it takes more skill and fun to play. Here is the list!
1x Academy Ruins
1x Adarkar Wastes
1x Alchemist's Refuge
1x Arid Mesa
1x Boseiju, Who Shelters All
1x Breeding Pool
1x Brushland
1x Command Tower
1x Flooded Grove
1x Flooded Strand
3x Forest
1x Glacial Fortress
1x Hallowed Fountain
1x Hinterland Harbor
3x Island
1x Kor Haven
1x Marsh Flats
1x Misty Rainforest
1x Mystic Gate
3x Plains
1x Polluted Delta
1x Reflecting Pool
1x Savannah
1x Strip Mine
1x Sunpetal Grove
1x Temple Garden
1x Tolaria West
1x Windswept Heath
1x Wooded Bastion
1x Wooded Foothills
1x Yavimaya Coast
1x Venser, the Sojourner
Creature (29)
1x Acidic Slime
1x Body Double
1x Clever Impersonator
1x Consecrated Sphinx
1x Deadeye Navigator
1x Eternal Witness
1x Farhaven Elf
1x Fierce Empath
1x Gilded Drake
1x Glen Elendra Archmage
1x Harmonic Sliver
1x Ixidron
1x Karmic Guide
1x Mirror Entity
1x Oracle of Mul Daya
1x Palinchron
1x Phantasmal Image
1x Phyrexian Metamorph
1x Prime Speaker Zegana
1x Prophet of Kruphix
1x Reveillark
1x Sakura-Tribe Elder
1x Snapcaster Mage
1x Stoneforge Mystic
1x Sun Titan
1x Trinket Mage
1x Venser, Shaper Savant
1x Vorinclex, Voice of Hunger
1x Wood Elves
Artifact (7)
1x Birthing Pod
1x Oblivion Stone
1x Sensei's Divining Top
1x Skullclamp
1x Sol Ring
1x Sword of Feast and Famine
1x Sword of Fire and Ice
1x Bant Charm
1x Beast Within
1x Chord of Calling
1x Cryptic Command
1x Cyclonic Rift
1x Eladamri's Call
1x Enlightened Tutor
1x Fact or Fiction
1x Mana Drain
1x Muddle the Mixture
1x Mystical Tutor
1x Pact of Negation
1x Sphinx's Revelation
1x Swords to Plowshares
1x Voidslime
Sorcery (7)
1x Austere Command
1x Bribery
1x Green Sun's Zenith
1x Supreme Verdict
1x Time Warp
1x Walk the Aeons
1x Wargate
Enchantment (3)
1x Mirari's Wake
1x Survival of the Fittest
1x Sylvan Library
There are 2 important comboes in the deck (well 3, but one is pretty janky).
1. Classic Reveillark + Body Double + Venser, Shaper Savant + Mirror Entity. I won't explain it because ISB has already done a nice job of that, but this combo is pretty resilient. This combo almost ALWAYS requires Survival of the Fittest If you have 1 irrelevant creature in hand, it takes 12 mana (5 of it G, which is often hard to achieve) to complete - 1G to play survival, G to get Venser, G to get Mirror, G to get Body Double, G to get Reveillark, and 6 to evoke.
2. Ye old Palinchron + Phantasmal Image/Mirari's Wake/Deadeye Navigator/Vorinclex, Voice of Hunger. This is the main reason I run Vorinclex and Deadeye. Elesh Norn just didn't end games like Vorinclex, and Deadeye just works so well with other ETB creatures. As for Mirari's Wake, the logic is simple - a combo version is by nature more mana hungry, so I use this to supplant the need for mana.
What do I do with the infinite mana? I can usually 1 shot someone with Jenara at least. Admittedly this is a weaker combo, since I need to somehow get Sphinx's Revelation or Primespeaker Zegana to draw my deck (off an infinitely big Jenara). From there I usually just chain together extra turns to kill everyone. Any ETB creature paired with Deadeye will also do the trick. Note that this can actually be done with a lone Fierce Empath, but it costs 18 mana O.O
3. Infinite Turns with Eternal Witness + Extra Turn Card + Bounce engine (Venser, the Sojourner or Deadeye Navigator). A pretty janky combo that I've only assembled once. Still, the backup plan is nice.
Cards to support combo - Prophet of Kruphix - I can actually combo off at instant speed with the Reveillark Combo, which is really nice.
Boseiju, Who Shelters All - When you play in a meta with combo, it's really nice to see your Time Warp resolve. It also works nicely for tutors that put creatures directly into play (GSZ, Wargate, Chord of Calling). Tolaria West is usually used to get this or Pact of Negation
Muddle the Mixture tutors for survival nicely. It also helps win counter wars over its resolution, and strengthens the tutor portion of the deck.
Enlightened Tutor fetches Survival, so I run it over Tezzeret, the Seeker
WHERE I NEED HELP
Cards I want to add - Capsize - I like it as an additional wincon for the second combo, but I'm having trouble figuring out what to swap out. I'm thinking Cryptic Command, since it's so expensive and isn't usually cast to defend the combo. It's so versatile though...
Karametra, God of Harvests- as a combo deck, we are more mana hungry, and she helps for this greatly. I cut her for Prophet, but I'm unsure of this cut. Can anyone see room for her in the list?
There's a decided lack of grave hate in my list as well, but I just can't see room for Tormod's Crypt. I already run Tolaria West, so my tutoring package is stronger than most, but I can't see room for it.
Any random comments on my decklist are welcome! I just wanted to keep the conversation going for Jenara - she's a great commander and the discussion deserves to be revived. You might be interested in my list if you like a bit more combo or feel that it is best for your meta.
Regular 450 unpowered cube (with some custom cards) - 450 Unpowered
Mirari's Wake - keep in mind that it disables you from using the survival combo as it will keep your Mirror Entity from killing your creatures. Its also sort of hard to get it and or really support it or recover it with this deck. Its a good card but the deck doesn't have any real synergy with it and you cant really nicely tutor for or recover it and its value generation really doesnt start until the next turn.
In my opinion you could probably get away with bringing Karametra back for the wake and I would personally go to a cheaper counter than cryptic but there are those who disagree with my assessment of it. Its a strong card for sure but this deck is proactive enough that its usually annoying to keep the mana up for it repeatedly. If you are having issues with combo decks my suggestion is to bump up the amount of cheap counters and or removal you run. Dont worry about getting value from them, focus on countering them first and foremost.
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[Modern] Allies
Here are the cards I can see coming out of your deck:
Acidic Slime - I can see combo'ing off with Deadeye and Palinchron here to wipe lands, but otherwise it's going to be an expensive removal spell.
Clever Impersonator - It always hurts to cut value cards, but since it doesn't further a win or react very well, this is a value card. It's also a conditional one.
Phyrexian Metamorph - Same as above. All the more reason you could cut at least one of these two.
Sun Titan - I think this is just another value card, although probably better at it than the clones. I just don't see very many games being won in your group by tapping out at Sorcery for 6 and grinding combat steps.
Sword of Fire and Ice - I understand FaF if you want to enable some Jenara aggression, but FaI just seems a tad slower than other options you could be running for draw volume.
Stoneforge Mystic - I don't think you have very many equipments, and those you have are not very essential to your plan. If cards like this were Brainstorm instead, you would probably prefer one of the three cards you saw over SFM.
Austere Command - Very expensive, reactive Sorcery. And you can probably just run a tutor for Oblivion Stone in its place, if you do need the wipe.
Bribery - Just not very likely to advance your game plan. You seem prone not to be able to do the same things with opponents' creatures as they can if they are combo decks, also.
Gilded Drake - I think you have enough creature removal, and if you wanted more I don't think theft is enough of a perk here to make up for the flexibility disadvantage over another Instant.
Mirari's Wake - The mana is nice, but it's a little late to arrive. And as a third piece for the secondary combo in the deck, it's just not high priority. You will always tutor Survival instead, it seems like.
Venser, the Sojourner - I think about the only thing worth blinking here is Fierce Empath, and it just doesn't seem that great at advancing your plan if you have to wait until end of turn to get the trigger.
There are a few other cards in this vein, just things that seem like "always run" for Goodstuff builds. But anything that doesn't draw cards, produce mana, interact well with opponents, or advance your win condition is a prime candidate to get cut.
These are cards I think you need:
Idyllic Tutor - for Survival
Academy Rector - again, for Survival
Kozilek, Butcher of Truth - The idea isn't to hardcast it, you would just have it in your deck so that when you get Survival out, you can force opponents who can Crypt you to act, then reshuffle into your deck. Ulamog or Kozi for this, and I prefer Kozi.
Otherwise, just a lot more draw spells. You can cut your land count down to 34-35 just by running 1cmc cantrips or land access like Life from the Loam, Tithe, etc. Consider running Cultivates over Wood Elves, and try to get more draw spells in the 3, 4, and 5 slots wherever your curve ends up being the lightest.
EDH:
G[cEDH] Selvala, Heart of the StormG
URW[cEDH] Narset, the Last AirmericanURW
GWUSt. Jenara, the ArchangelGWU
UBGrimgrin, Chaos MarineUB
GOmnath, Mana BaronG
URWNarset, Justice League AmericaURW
GWUBAtraxa, Countess of CountersGWUB
GWUEstrid, Enbantress PrimeGWU
Gilded Drake should not be cut. It is a cheap, valuable, and recurrable answer. The best place to keep an opponent's Zur or Derevi is in play under your control.
BRGrenzo, Dungeon Warden EDH
GAzusa, Always in a Rush EDH
GWUDerevi, Empyrial Warlord EDH
Trade thread on MOTL
I buy HP and Damaged cards!
Only EDH:
Sigarda, Host of Herons: Enchantress' Enchantments
Jenara, Asura of War: ETB Value Town
Purphoros, God of the Forge: Global Punishment
Xenagos, God of Revels: Ramp, Sneak, & Heavy Hitters
Ghave, Guru of Spores: Dies_to_Doom_Blade's stax list
Edric, Spymaster of Trest: Donald's list
None of those lands are fetch-able. that's the big problem with <> mana. There just aren't that many good ways to get it and in a pile of ninety-nine, three or four sources just isn't going to cut it.
A handful of mana rocks would help and they're probably easier to search for than lands without a Basic type. A deck that was easier on the mana could run Wastes which could be augmented by things like Evolving Wilds, but Bant can't run many lands that don't make colored mana.
Frenzy-Affinity-Ghost Quarter-Rock-Tokens- RGWPhyrexian Zoo- WVial KnightsStandard:
BW Knights(Rotated)Pioneer: RW Knights - BW Rally Zombies - UW Heroes
Commander:WUG
Jenara, Asura of War- WGSigarda, Host of HeronsCasualties of economicsLegacy: Good-night, sweet prince. Mono-R Burn