@ Deathj will be posting a more tuned 1v1 list gonna make one with the normal ban list, and one using the french ban list
@ Hunter245 lots of really good suggestions, look forward to responding to you about them. Busy here at work and just didn't want to leave you guys without a responce very longer.
I'll be working on these things and hope to have them up wednesday, tomorrow, sometime next week. I just purchased some cards for the deck and I am gonna test them out.
Hey I just wanted to say that this deck is a lot of fun to play. I kind of hate the fact that I found this thread because I don't like to net deck but...after looking at it...I keep coming back to it for ideas. Now my deck is pretty much the same as it is here. Only 5 cards differ.
-1 Sinkhole (Not relevant in Multiplayer EDH. Everything else takes care of problem lands. This would be better in 1v1.)
-1 Darkness (Very Underwhelming)
-1 Planar Portal (I would rather have card draw.)
-1 Diabolic Tutor (With the inclusion of the other tutors...this one is just lacking.)
-1 Urborg (I am actively looking for a use for this card...and haven't found one. Ghost Quarter just seems way better.)
Like I said...I love your list. I would love to hear of any more updates that you have. Also...your "Card's I'd play if I had them" section...what would you cut for these cards:
Hey I just wanted to say that this deck is a lot of fun to play. I kind of hate the fact that I found this thread because I don't like to net deck but...after looking at it...I keep coming back to it for ideas.
WOW! Thanks for the kind words. Never though I'd hear something like that
Now my deck is pretty much the same as it is here. Only 5 cards differ.
-1 Sinkhole (Not relevant in Multiplayer EDH. Everything else takes care of problem lands. This would be better in 1v1.)
-1 Darkness (Very Underwhelming)
-1 Planar Portal (I would rather have card draw.)
-1 Diabolic Tutor (With the inclusion of the other tutors...this one is just lacking.)
-1 Urborg (I am actively looking for a use for this card...and haven't found one. Ghost Quarter just seems way better.)
I'll break these down one by one. Sinkhole is only in there because this is my "pimped out" EDH deck (which I still need to take pictures of and post) and I have a Beta Sinkhole in very very good condition. But I do agree with what you said, much better for 1v1.
Darkness is a personal favorite of mine, but is probably gonna get the axe soon. The deck plays plenty of removal, and if I want to play an ability like this, Sudden Spoiling is much better as Hunter245 said a few post earlier.
Urborg. Just cut it myself, it never did anything, posting an updated list tomorrow (I actually have some free time to do so). For a moment I had to double check which Urborg/Urborg, Tomb of Yagwmoth.
Eternity Vessel I didn't like. I know how powerful it is in this format, and how broken it is with Necropotence, I possibly just need to test with it more.
Ghost Quarter is a great idea to replace Urborg, llike I said, updated list coming tomorrow, sometime next week. I just purchased some cards for the deck and I am gonna test them out.
Like I said...I love your list. I would love to hear of any more updates that you have. Also...your "Card's I'd play if I had them" section...what would you cut for these cards:
Using the current list I have posted
-Planar Portal and -Diabolic Tutor
You are putting better tutors. Simple change.
-Darkness, -Diabolic Edict, -Imp's Mischief, -Sinkhole(I personally won't, but I'll recomnend it to other players to cut for craw draw)
With the additional card draw, you will find answers that these cards provide faster than these cards can offer.
And one final thought. I just can't decide on what to cut for Barter in Blood. I really don't like the idea of cutting Decree of Pain. Any thoughts?
My theory on cutting cards, what card(s) doesn't pull it's weight on a regular basis. First impulse thought is Diabolic Edict because of Barter in Blood getting two creatures on every player. But stick to the weight pulling theory, and I believe you'll find your answer.
Glad you enjoy playing the deck. What is the best play you've had with the deck?
So, I've been thinking about possilby adding Mycosynth Lattice and Darksteel Forge to the deck, as another way to win the game (ML + DF + Oblivion Stone/Nevinyrral's Disk = Good Game). I am not sure, wanted some feedback on that before I go forward with testing it out. Does it seem too clunky, win more, annoying for the rest of the table???
PLUS I'm sure you all saw All is Dust in the Rise of the Eldazri spoiler! I know, every EDH deck is stoaked about it, but for being a colored deck, this deck is going to love that card. The current list runs only thirteen colored permanents!!! And to be honest, it is probably going to go down to 12, as I believe Bane of the Living will probably be getting the axe once AID (Really wizards, didn't catch that acronym did you? Pay 7 and I'll cast AIDS) is available.
Updated list coming next week, as I picked up more card draw for the deck. Ambition's Cost, Ancient Craving, Night's Whisper, and Sign in Blood
Plus some slight changes, and a return of a small engine that could, which never should of left the deck.
Nice list but some cards stand out at me as being sub-optimal.
Diabolic Tutor- Really need to upgrade to Grim Tutor, and include Imperial seal. A great investment thats worth it with the amount of time you've put into the deck. The same thing goes with Liliana. At this mana cost it is impossibly to either use the tutor as a reactive spell or to set up later turns. Lets look at Liliana. At 5cc you play her down using her tutor ability immediatly. She then is at 3 loyalty counters making it easy to kill since your not exactly running creatures to defend her. At this point all she did was soak up a hit for 5 mana. She really didnt provide any card advantage. Now Imperial Seal/Vampiric make up for it with the advantage of being one mana! Corrupt/Consume Spirit-I play a EDH mono red list that discludes X burn Spells for this reason. Simply put gaining the large amount of life is hot, But for the mana your payin, isnt it better to invest it elsewhere. Also the damage conflicts with general damage, since I assume thats how you win most of your games. Decree of pain- Simply put, I would run barter in blood or Mutalite over this anyday of the week. The CMC is way to high to effect the game when you truly need it in 1v1. Sure a great multiplayer card but by reading your post that like myself you want a great 1v1 deck that doesnt die over in multiplayer. Reliquary Tower- In your explanation you state that this provides CA. I only see it giving you card advantage with Necropotence, allowing you to draw more then 7. But in that case it is simply win more. SImply better to have another basic land or include Ancient Tomb/Volrath Darkness- Although this may buy you a turn to wrath against hasty creatures. You either are going to lose anyway or simple removal would have been better, Even Sudden SPoiling would be better Imp's Mischief- Watch this card. Sure it change the target of a removal spell. If your opponents run enough creatures then fine. Just watch this card. Planar Portal too can eat the axe.
Alot of these cards you have to look at and wonder if the mana cost is worth the effect, I mean really sundering titan makes up its cost, and so does mindslaver. But does Consume spirit make up for the amount of mana your pouring into him. I can further elaborate on a topic if you wish because I was writing this inbetween classes,
Some quick Suggestions: Ancient Tomb, Accelerates Ob, and the pain is always worth it. Sure it hurts more in multiplayer, but it will be a godsend in 1v1. Volrath's Stronghold, Even if your deck does not run a single creature, you still can recurr ob, which warrants its inclusion. Also being legendary it can sometimes become a wasteland.
More cheap removal such as Sudden Death and such. Definatly find sign in blood and Nights whisper though they really are worth it and they are not expensive.
More graveyard hate. Why not run relic of progenitus, and the bunch. At worst they cantrip and eat up your opponents graveyard. Sure you run the black creatures that eat up the graveyard, but I've found that they out perform them all except Withered Wretch.
Needs more Mindslaver.
So getting a chance to sit down and reply to you sir. First off thanks for the suggestions. (Added card tags to help others)
Grim Tutor and Imperial Seal will eventually be in the list/deck. I don't play online (MWS) so my list is legit the cards I own. I set myself a budget on magic (per month), and currently can't afford getting those tutors. Too expensive to buy. I could save my budget to nab these up, but I'll probably wait for my tax return, birthday moneyz, or the ladyfriend to help me out in getting these. Totally agree with you though, they should be in. Diabolic Tutor and Planar Portal will get the axe when I get these... eventually.
Consume Spirit/Corrupt/Drain Life - These I believe are necessary, while I already know and have said, the only number that turly matters in EDH is 21, the fact that the deck abuses it's life total as a resource on a regular basis, this removal is good. Also all three of these cards can simply end the game.
Darkness - Sudden Spoiling is much better, but this card is probably getting the axe in the near future. As I mentioned in an earlier post, my card draw on the way.
I disagree. I think that Barter in Blood is actually better in this deck than Damnation. However...I stand by the fact that mass removal is king in this format. Even more so because of the absolute lack of creatures in the deck. I think that the mass removal package should be: Decree of Pain, Overwhelming Forces, Pox, Barter in Blood, Damnation, Nevinyrral's Disk, Oblivion Stone, and Bane of the Living. I would encourage Barter in Blood even more now that Totem Armors are going to be huge post ROE. By forcing your opponent to sacrifice their creatures...you can get by the protection offered.
Ancient Tomb I need to test with this. Could be very very good. My olny fear is this deck abuses it's life total as a resource alot already.
Volrath's Stronghold HMMM. Your point of recurring Ob has intrigued me. I'll give this a spin.
I don't like either in this deck. I think that we need to maintain a large number of Snow-Covered Swamp sin the deck. Every time that gets chiseled away...the deck gets a little worse. On the same subject...I bumped Urborg in favor of Ghost Quarter and have never looked back.
More cheap removal. - Sudden Death is probably the only cheap removal card I feel is needed. Would rather wipe the board clean.
Sudden Death is not needed. Mass removal is enough. Let the other decks at the table deal with 1 for 1 removal. The amount of life gain this deck offers...makes spot removal a wasted space IMO.
I would rather run Leyline of the Void over Tormod's Crypt. I am torn on Mindslaver. I do my best not to fill my deck with cards that can be used against me. This would be the same reason why I have cut Iona, Shield of Emeria from my decks. It is all to often used against me. The only time that I could see it being useful is to finish off the last person at the table. Seems like a wasted spot to me.
Like I said before...I love this deck. My buddies laughed at me when I told them that I was building a Mono Black deck in EDH in a group that is run by Arcum Dagsson and Zur the Enchanter. I guess the joke is on them. They will probably give me the same negativity towards my next project. A mono green deck that isn't Rofellos, Llanowar Emissary.
I disagree. I think that Barter in Blood is actually better in this deck than Damnation. However...I stand by the fact that mass removal is king in this format. Even more so because of the absolute lack of creatures in the deck. I think that the mass removal package should be: Decree of Pain, Overwhelming Forces, Pox, Barter in Blood, Damnation, Nevinyrral's Disk, Oblivion Stone, and Bane of the Living. I would encourage Barter in Blood even more now that Totem Armors are going to be huge post ROE. By forcing your opponent to sacrifice their creatures...you can get by the protection offered.
Barter in Blood has been added, agree it should of been in here. All is Dust is going to help with all that Totem Armor crap.
Imp's Mischief is amazing in this deck. I find myself tutoring for it quite often.
And it has stayed. Way too good.
I don't like Ancient Tomb or Volrath's Stronghold in this deck. I think that we need to maintain a large number of Snow-Covered Swamp sin the deck. Every time that gets chiseled away...the deck gets a little worse. On the same subject...I bumped Urborg in favor of Ghost Quarter and have never looked back.
I tested both, and agree, this decks needs a large amount on Snow-Covered Swamps to run well. Still haven't tested Ghost Quarter
Sudden Death is not needed. Mass removal is enough. Let the other decks at the table deal with 1 for 1 removal. The amount of life gain this deck offers...makes spot removal a wasted space IMO.
And the other decks shall. Love that line man.
I would rather run Leyline of the Void over Tormod's Crypt. I am torn on Mindslaver. I do my best not to fill my deck with cards that can be used against me. This would be the same reason why I have cut Iona, Shield of Emeria from my decks. It is all to often used against me. The only time that I could see it being useful is to finish off the last person at the table. Seems like a wasted spot to me.
Pretty much the main reason Mindslaver would find it's way back in, is if this deck was strickly for 1v1, or as you said finish off the last guy at the table. Leyline is a great idea, but what if it comes late, and your opponent already has cards in the yard? Guess same could be said about Crypt, if you get it early, and no cards are in the yard.
Like I said before...I love this deck. My buddies laughed at me when I told them that I was building a Mono Black deck in EDH in a group that is run by Arcum Dagsson and Zur the Enchanter. I guess the joke is on them. They will probably give me the same negativity towards my next project. A mono green deck that isn't Rofellos, Llanowar Emissary.
What are your results like against Arkum and Zur?
What is your mono green project?
Quite well actually. Zur the Enchanter is the easier of the two to deal with. He usually sets himself up a defense...and then everything gets wiped. He will cast Retether or any of the other spells like it...someone else will wipe the board...etc. etc. etc. The decks just aren't made for multiplayer. The reason why Zur the Enchanter, Arcum Dagsson, Rofellos, Llanowar Emmissary, etc...aren't good in multiplayer is because someone at the table is always going to have removal. In 1v1 you can force your opponent out of removal and proceed to win the game. Or they can rush out the gates extremely fast...and maybe take someone out...but then the rest of the people will mash him. The best way that Arcum Dagsson can play is to tutor for cards like Howling Mine, Font of Mythos, and other "helper" cards. This way people will see an importance for keeping him around. If you don't play politics you will lose.
The above is why I like this deck. Its irrelevant what my opponents do. I just react. I typically don't play Ob Nixilis, the Fallen until turn 15. Once I get Crucible of Worlds into play I will cast Pox, then Ob Nixilis, the Fallen, and then proceed to curb stomp. My favorite series of events ever playing this deck was the following.
I have been thinking about the deck a little...and I think that I am going to swap out Scrying Sheets for Deserted Temple. Scrying Sheets has never ever hit for me...and most of the time it would have been a waste either way. I just don't see the benefit in it. On the other hand...Deserted Temple can be amazing in the deck. Not only does it have the obvious effects with Cabal Coffers...but it can also untap your Thawing Glaciers to allow a reuse. I just feel that with only 18 snow permanents in the deck...not including Scrying Sheets because that has to be in play...it is just not reliable enough to give it a spot. Deserted Temple is equally useless by itself...but it can be a huge bonus if it gets comboed. Just my two cents.
Multani, Maro-Sorcerer. He gets the pump for every cards in everyone's hand. My delimia is whether I want to go Mono Green control, the token route, or Just big fat dudes.
Ob Nixilis is awesome, i use him myself in my warp world deck to kill people in one shot with 10+ landfall triggers at once. Although playing him as general doesn't give you this option.
Quite well actually. Zur the Enchanter is the easier of the two to deal with. He usually sets himself up a defense...and then everything gets wiped. He will cast Retether or any of the other spells like it...someone else will wipe the board...etc. etc. etc. The decks just aren't made for multiplayer. The reason why Zur the Enchanter, Arcum Dagsson, Rofellos, Llanowar Emmissary, etc...aren't good in multiplayer is because someone at the table is always going to have removal. In 1v1 you can force your opponent out of removal and proceed to win the game. Or they can rush out the gates extremely fast...and maybe take someone out...but then the rest of the people will mash him. The best way that Arcum Dagsson can play is to tutor for cards like Howling Mine, Font of Mythos, and other "helper" cards. This way people will see an importance for keeping him around. If you don't play politics you will lose.
Nice. Appericate the info regarding those generals. (Like I said in the primer, no-one in my meta is playing those "Tier 1" generals.
The above is why I like this deck. Its irrelevant what my opponents do. I just react.
I am glad you feel this way. I agree with this 100%.
I've never really kept track of what turn I typically end up playing Ob. Something I should do.
I know, I let my draws and what my opponent's plays/tells show me, when the time to play Ob is (but isn't that just playing the game? lol) Crucible of Worlds + Pox + Ob Nixilis, the Fallen = winning games.
My favorite series of events ever playing this deck was the following.
Turn X: Overwhelming Forces. Draw a ridiculous amount of cards.
Turn X+1: Decree of Pain. Draw a ridiculous amount of cards.
Turn X+2: Xiahou Dun, the One-Eyed, equipped Lightning Greaves, sacrifice to bring back Decree of Pain and cast it again.
Turn X+3: No one has anymore cards in hand or creatures on the board. Now I start my Profane Command + Xiahou Dun, the One-Eyed combo to kill all 6 other people. Plus...should they have gotten crazy I could have cast Yawgmoth's Will to re-wipe the board.
WOW! That is awesome. I've never thought of the syngery between Profane Command + Xiahou Dun, the One-Eyed :facepalm:. Needs to be in the Primer, with all credit going to you. Care to break it down a bit more? I believe such things like Cabal Coffers are needed. (Plus this helps your point of view regarding Deserted Temple below)
I have been thinking about the deck a little...and I think that I am going to swap out Scrying Sheets for Deserted Temple. Scrying Sheets has never ever hit for me...and most of the time it would have been a waste either way. I just don't see the benefit in it. On the other hand...Deserted Temple can be amazing in the deck. Not only does it have the obvious effects with Cabal Coffers...but it can also untap your Thawing Glaciers to allow a reuse. I just feel that with only 18 snow permanents in the deck...not including Scrying Sheets because that has to be in play...it is just not reliable enough to give it a spot. Deserted Temple is equally useless by itself...but it can be a huge bonus if it gets comboed. Just my two cents.
OMG! Before I read your post, I don't think I knew of that land (if I did, it sure wasn't in the front of my mind when it come to making the deck better.) Deserted Temple after reading it several times, isn't as equally useless as Scrying Sheets, it is far superior than Scrying Sheets. Lands Temple is fun with... Cabal Coffers, Thawing Glaciers (like you said), but also Maze of Ith. (Stopping two different threats from two different players w/ only two lands seems good)
Multani, Maro-Sorcerer. He gets the pump for every cards in everyone's hand. My delimia is whether I want to go Mono Green control, the token route, or Just big fat dudes.
I like your list and will use it for inspiration with Volrath (since the Eldrazi do make him much more attractive now).
Have you considered Bloodchief Ascension for lifegain? It may paint a target, but being general reliant does anyway and your general triggers counters effortlessly. I couldn't see mention of it previously, but if I am wrong I apologise.
I also play Weiss Schwarz, Chaos, Vanguard and Wixoss.
Weiss Schwarz Sets
Accel World, Angel Beats, Familiar of Zero, Gargantia on the Verdurous Planet, Guilty Crown, Kill La Kill, Robotics;Notes, Sword Art Online.
Chaos Partners
Arpeggio of Blue Steel: Iona, Kirishima, Kongou.
Dangan Ronpa: Asahina, Togami.
Freezing: Vibration: Chiffon, Satelizer.
Vanguard Clans Favoured
Angel Feather, Dark Irregulars, Genesis, Neonecter, Pale Moon, Shadow Paladins, Tachikaze.
Nice. Appericate the info regarding those generals. (Like I said in the primer, no-one in my meta is playing those "Tier 1" generals.
The reason why I appreciate multiplayer games is because...it forces people to play fair. The people that typically show up to play bring their 1v1 decks. Then when they get crushed they don't understand why. Now...if you were playing with modified rules such as 'Zombie Master' or something similar it would be different and 1v1 decks would reign supreme. In case you don't know...'Zombie Master' is played as normal except if you kill someone they keep current game-state go to half life and become your teammate. In this situation and only this situation is a 1v1 deck good in a multiplayer environment. This is of course ignoring any infinite turn 4 combo decks. <--These decks typically don't even use their general though.
I've never really kept track of what turn I typically end up playing Ob. Something I should do.
I know, I let my draws and what my opponent's plays/tells show me, when the time to play Ob is (but isn't that just playing the game? lol) Crucible of Worlds + Pox + Ob Nixilis, the Fallen = winning games.
Whats funny is...people just think I don't know how to play the deck. Around turn 10 or so...they will ask me why I don't just play my general. I typically respond, "I don't need to right now." Then...once people expend their resources...I strike. I really wish that there was an Armageddon effect in Black. Anyway...Pox does the trick because it nullifies their hand, lands, and whats left of their creatures. This also sets me up with a ton of lands in the yard to abuse Crucible of Worlds. <--I really don't get why people don't destroy this as soon as they see it. The card is broken. People seem to think that I play it for no reason. I guess ignorance is bliss in their world.
WOW! That is awesome. I've never thought of the syngery between Profane Command + Xiahou Dun, the One-Eyed :facepalm:. Needs to be in the Primer, with all credit going to you. Care to break it down a bit more?
OMG! Before I read your post, I don't think I knew of that land (if I did, it sure wasn't in the front of my mind when it come to making the deck better.) Deserted Temple after reading it several times, isn't as equally useless as Scrying Sheets, it is far superior than Scrying Sheets. Lands Temple is fun with... Cabal Coffers, Thawing Glaciers (like you said), but also Maze of Ith. (Stopping two different threats from two different players w/ only two lands seems good)
Yeah it has quite a few applications in the deck. I was initially testing Candelabra of Tawnos in the deck. We all know the broken effects of that and Tolarian Academy...but then I ran across this gem.
Another card that I have been trying to fit in here is General's Kabuto. I think it is probably worse than Whispersilk Cloak though. I just love the card. It gives you infi-blocks while simultaneously making your guy awesome. I will find a deck for it...
I like your list and will use it for inspiration with Volrath (since the Eldrazi do make him much more attractive now).
Have you considered Bloodchief Ascension for lifegain? It may paint a target, but being general reliant does anyway and your general triggers counters effortlessly. I couldn't see mention of it previously, but if I am wrong I apologise.
It was originally in the deck. What happened to it Tom? I didn't see it in your change log. That card is busted in Multiplayer. I had a guy pop a Nevinyrral's Disk with no other relevant threats on the board just to get rid of it after I displayed its awesome power by casting Pox. I gained something like 50 life and took someone out of the game with a one shot.
I am trying to decide where to put Mishra's Helix at. I really like Icy Manipulator in this deck but...I have a hard time justifying having them both in this deck.
I have also kind of grown attached to Diabolic Tutor. I think I am going to leave it in the deck instead of Grim Tutor. I can see situations where the loss of life could be relevant. Beyond that...this deck produces so much mana...it really doesn't seem like the mana cost is a problem.
Mishra's Helix is great in theory, but once you get to a real game, you often never want to cast it, and it nets you no advantage. Sure if you have a threat out and an opponent doesn't you'll win, but at that point your winning anyway. Icy Manipulator is great because it's versatility, but more often then not it is acting as a maze of ith. Test it yourself, thats the only way you really know if the card is win-more.
I have to take some issue with your OP about how diverse and creative this general is or lets you be.
Step 1: cast general
step 2: put lands into play.
Did general die?
Play 2 lands. Repeat.
A monkey could pilot this guy to victory. He's in a colour steeped with removal, has built in redundancy by repleneshing your life total, offers both direct damage and very easily rises to deadly general damage with the +1+1 counters.
He's a powerful general for sure, but he doesn't exactly tax your brain to figure out what to do.
I realize that I play a fairly different mono black list, but I've played with almost every card in MBC and I have to question a few card choices from a multiplayer standpoint:
- Dark Ritual & Chrome Mox: I don't see these being good in multiplayer, like, ever. They are card disadvantage for a minuscule speed boost. I understand you run Pox and the likes but that isn't enough to be giving up valuable slots. If I were to make cuts, these would be the first to go. The ONLY nuts play I can actually see is an early Myojin of Night's Reach, and that can be done with the help of good mana artifacts already.
- Hexmage Depths: this combo has always been super sketch in EDH. In fact, every time it has actually resolved AGAINST me (that's about 1 in 30 games), I've had an answer. It's just not that good. Hexmage is an arguable inclusion, but even she is a bit narrow.
- Overwhelming Forces: this is pretty bad in multiplayer. Why? Read the errata :/
Mishra's Helix is great in theory, but once you get to a real game, you often never want to cast it, and it nets you no advantage. Sure if you have a threat out and an opponent doesn't you'll win, but at that point your winning anyway. Icy Manipulator is great because it's versatility, but more often then not it is acting as a maze of ith. Test it yourself, thats the only way you really know if the card is win-more.
I play Arcum Dagsson in 1v1...and Mishra's Helix is an allstar in that deck. It gives a very important lock out ability that can be required should you get set back. I haven't tested this in Ob Nixilis, the Fallen yet but...you are right...in theory it seems just as good. I look forward to testing it out in this deck.
I have to take some issue with your OP about how diverse and creative this general is or lets you be.
Step 1: cast general
step 2: put lands into play.
Did general die?
Play 2 lands. Repeat.
A monkey could pilot this guy to victory. He's in a colour steeped with removal, has built in redundancy by repleneshing your life total, offers both direct damage and very easily rises to deadly general damage with the +1+1 counters.
He's a powerful general for sure, but he doesn't exactly tax your brain to figure out what to do.
Nom Nom Nom little troll. Play the deck and then come back and talk. I can't tell if you are trolling or genuinely don't understand this deck. I will give you the benefit of the doubt and actually respond. The biggest part about playing this deck that you must understand is how to properly play politics. You must read your opponents to plan the best time to make your attack. As I stated earlier...I typically don't play Ob Nixilis, the Fallen until turn 15 because I want to leave my options open. If you don't understand the intricacies of playing a control deck in multiplayer...then this deck isn't for you. All control decks seems simple on the surface. However a good control player knows what and when to respond to and what to ignore. Its considerably more difficult than you are making it out to be.
Then again...were a monkey to pilot this deck he might have an advantage. I know I wouldn't sit at a table with a monkey flinging crap at me.
I realize that I play a fairly different mono black list, but I've played with almost every card in MBC and I have to question a few card choices from a multiplayer standpoint:
- Dark Ritual & Chrome Mox: I don't see these being good in multiplayer, like, ever. They are card disadvantage for a minuscule speed boost. I understand you run Pox and the likes but that isn't enough to be giving up valuable slots. If I were to make cuts, these would be the first to go. The ONLY nuts play I can actually see is an early Myojin of Night's Reach, and that can be done with the help of good mana artifacts already.
Chrome Mox has been on my chopping block for quite some time now. I guess I never really thought about Dark Ritual. I guess I have just been so drawn to the card from previous experience that I forced it through. I honestly don't know why I would have ignored that but been against Chrome Mox. Thanks for pointing this out. I would like to hear what Tom has to say on that. I think I found some room for several ROE cards.
- Hexmage Depths: this combo has always been super sketch in EDH. In fact, every time it has actually resolved AGAINST me (that's about 1 in 30 games), I've had an answer. It's just not that good. Hexmage is an arguable inclusion, but even she is a bit narrow.
The reason why I like this combo is because each piece is ok without the other. Vampire Hexmage is amazing for several reasons. Planeswalkers are an absolute nightmare for mono black. This gives us an out. Beyond that...the amount of mana that this deck produces sometimes needs a place to go. At the end of a turn it is not uncommon for me to have an extra 10-15 mana. Lets not forget about Lightning Greaves and Whispersilk Cloak. I have watched him wreck several people before they were able to stop him.I like him in here. He is also a legend so Shizo, Death's Storehouse can also help dish out some damage.
- Overwhelming Forces: this is pretty bad in multiplayer. Why? Read the errata :/
Ouch. I have never read the Oracle text for Overwhelming Forces. So not only is it already strictly worse than Decree of Pain...its now even more strictly worse. Yuck. I may actually consider playing Plague Wind in its place. Damn...this really upsets me. I paid $30 for this card because it quite plainly states the intent of the card.
"playing the politics" is part of any multiplayer game with any deck ever made. There's nothing peculiar with this. It has a very easy to play general with tonnes of benefits - direct damage, life gain, cheap, instant-threat, easily replayable. Like omnath, ashling, red akroma, molimo etc you have an innate reason to play lots of land right in your general making replaying him when he bites the dust a piece of cake.
The only difference between this and ashling the pilgrim is that you actually need to dedicate some deckspace to removal, you can't quite do 99-lands-ob-nixilis, but its about that complicated.
"playing the politics" is part of any multiplayer game with any deck ever made. There's nothing peculiar with this. It has a very easy to play general with tonnes of benefits - direct damage, life gain, cheap, instant-threat, easily replayable. Like omnath, ashling, red akroma, molimo etc you have an innate reason to play lots of land right in your general making replaying him when he bites the dust a piece of cake.
The only difference between this and ashling the pilgrim is that you actually need to dedicate some deckspace to removal, you can't quite do 99-lands-ob-nixilis, but its about that complicated.
I never have been good at picking trolls out of threads but...thanks for making it easy. If you have a complaint about how "Easy" this deck is...write your senator or congressman. I am sure they will appreciate your non-sense.
@Tom,
After looking over the 108 cards currently on the spoiler...there are several cards that stand out as hopefuls for this deck.
All is Dust - This seems like a sure thing for this deck. It wipes the board while leaving our artifacts alone. It has its ups and downs when compared to Nevinrral's Disk and Oblivion Stone...either way I think this is going to be a fine addition to this deck.
The reason why I appreciate multiplayer games is because...it forces people to play fair. The people that typically show up to play bring their 1v1 decks. Then when they get crushed they don't understand why. Now...if you were playing with modified rules such as 'Zombie Master' or something similar it would be different and 1v1 decks would reign supreme. In case you don't know...'Zombie Master' is played as normal except if you kill someone they keep current game-state go to half life and become your teammate. In this situation and only this situation is a 1v1 deck good in a multiplayer environment. This is of course ignoring any infinite turn 4 combo decks. <--These decks typically don't even use their general though.
Multiplayer games truly do force people to play fair. Zombie Master sounds fun, I'm going to try that out with my play group.
Whats funny is...people just think I don't know how to play the deck. Around turn 10 or so...they will ask me why I don't just play my general. I typically respond, "I don't need to right now." Then...once people expend their resources...I strike. I really wish that there was an Armageddon effect in Black. Anyway...Pox does the trick because it nullifies their hand, lands, and whats left of their creatures. This also sets me up with a ton of lands in the yard to abuse Crucible of Worlds. <--I really don't get why people don't destroy this as soon as they see it. The card is broken. People seem to think that I play it for no reason. I guess ignorance is bliss in their world.
I get that alot as well. Several games, Ob will come out early. And I mean turn 2 early (T1 Snow-Covered Swamp, Sol Ring. T2 Dark Ritual, Ob Nixilis, the Fallen, Bloodstained Mire) But other games, he might not hit the board till turn 10+ (played a few games where I never played Ob). How people don't understand why Crucible of Worlds is in this deck confuses and frightens me
I should of been a little more clear. I thought you were hitting this several times in a turn lol. (Which I think might be possible)
Yeah it has quite a few applications in the deck. I was initially testing Candelabra of Tawnos in the deck. We all know the broken effects of that and Tolarian Academy...but then I ran across this gem.
Another card that I have been trying to fit in here is General's Kabuto. I think it is probably worse than Whispersilk Cloak though. I just love the card. It gives you infi-blocks while simultaneously making your guy awesome. I will find a deck for it...
That card is awesome, but like you said it is worse than Whispersilk Cloak. Defentally a deck is out there. My buddy had a Godo, Bandit Warlord deck, I'm gonna suggest this card to him.
It was originally in the deck. What happened to it Tom? I didn't see it in your change log. That card is busted in Multiplayer. I had a guy pop a Nevinyrral's Disk with no other relevant threats on the board just to get rid of it after I displayed its awesome power by casting Pox. I gained something like 50 life and took someone out of the game with a one shot.
Bloodchief Ascension caught me beatdowns, alot. My group is a little weird. Bloodchief and Luminarch Ascension catch you beat downs (even though they aren't a problem till they are active and very easy to kill... Disenchant, just to name a card). Jace Beleren also draws the same hate, if you decide to be selfish with him. This card is amazing in multiplayer, just got tried of getting three people turns dedicated to dealing me damage, because I played a, as-of now, non threatenign enchantment.
I am trying to decide where to put Mishra's Helix at. I really like Icy Manipulator in this deck but...I have a hard time justifying having them both in this deck.
I have also kind of grown attached to Diabolic Tutor. I think I am going to leave it in the deck instead of Grim Tutor. I can see situations where the loss of life could be relevant. Beyond that...this deck produces so much mana...it really doesn't seem like the mana cost is a problem.
Mana cost is never an issue for this deck, and if it is, you're doing it wrong. But yeah the life loss thing can create an issue, something I'm running into with all the card draw I added to my build of the deck.
I recentally cut Icy Manipulator from my build of the deck, but both really have purpose in the deck
Mishra's Helix is great in theory, but once you get to a real game, you often never want to cast it, and it nets you no advantage. Sure if you have a threat out and an opponent doesn't you'll win, but at that point your winning anyway. Icy Manipulator is great because it's versatility, but more often then not it is acting as a maze of ith. Test it yourself, thats the only way you really know if the card is win-more.
Took the words out of mouth.
ImAChampion, thanks for dealing with the troll. Seriously this is becoming a Tom Servo and ImAChampion Ob Nixilis primer. Everything has been very helpful. Thank you.
I realize that I play a fairly different mono black list, but I've played with almost every card in MBC and I have to question a few card choices from a multiplayer standpoint:
- Dark Ritual & Chrome Mox: I don't see these being good in multiplayer, like, ever. They are card disadvantage for a minuscule speed boost. I understand you run Pox and the likes but that isn't enough to be giving up valuable slots. If I were to make cuts, these would be the first to go. The ONLY nuts play I can actually see is an early Myojin of Night's Reach, and that can be done with the help of good mana artifacts already.
- Hexmage Depths: this combo has always been super sketch in EDH. In fact, every time it has actually resolved AGAINST me (that's about 1 in 30 games), I've had an answer. It's just not that good. Hexmage is an arguable inclusion, but even she is a bit narrow.
- Overwhelming Forces: this is pretty bad in multiplayer. Why? Read the errata :/
For myself personally, as ImAChampion has answered this, I make most of my deck, if not all to be good in multiplayer and 1v1 (not great, not tier 1, just good). That is why you see such cards as Chrome Mox and Dark Ritual. Wouldn't you also include Mox Diamond in that arguement as well?
Hexmage Depths. Why not? Kidding, once again ImAChampion pulling through with the great reasoning for those cards/combo to be in the deck.
I just found out about the errata to Overwhelming Forces last night. I'm not happy about it what-so-ever. I know ImAChampion suggested Plague Wind, but I think the forthcomming All is Dust will go in here. This really saddens me, I paid $40 for my Chinese Overwhelming Forces.
@Tom,
After looking over the 108 cards currently on the spoiler...there are several cards that stand out as hopefuls for this deck.
All is Dust - This seems like a sure thing for this deck. It wipes the board while leaving our artifacts alone. It has its ups and downs when compared to Nevinrral's Disk and Oblivion Stone...either way I think this is going to be a fine addition to this deck.
Emrakul, the Aeon Torn is the only "big awesome fatty" I feel is worth looking at for the deck. Mono Black has what in ways of taking extra turns? Temporal Extortion? Not that good. All three of the legendary Eldzari are good, but I really think Emrakul will be the only one worh adding to the deck. (Card draw is not a problem for this deck, and either is blowing up permanents.
Nirkana Revenant is also a must. Another Magus of the Coffers, yes please. It's pump ability is scary as well. This with any of the equipment the deck runs is just nuts.
Just saw Suffer the Past (working name), this could be really good XB - Instant
Exile X target cards from target player's graveyard. For each card you exiled this way, that player loses one life and you gain one life.
I need to work on a true 1v1 list (french ban list and non french ban list) as well as a true multiplayer list. Hopefully will have those up soon.
I should of been a little more clear. I thought you were hitting this several times in a turn lol. (Which I think might be possible)
Yes and no. I had to verify the ruling but...Xiahou Dun, the One-Eyed can have his ability happen anytime before declare attackers so...I was actually confused by the wording and thought that he had to be attacking and this was a replacement...I was wrong. So technically you could cast and recast Profane Command several times in the same turn...but short of killing multiple people I don't see the point. It would just be a waste of mana. As an X spell...I just go all out if I need to. I will say that on multiple occasions I have burned several indestructible creatures with this "trick" though.
Bloodchief Ascension caught me beatdowns, alot. My group is a little weird. Bloodchief and Luminarch Ascension catch you beat downs (even though they aren't a problem till they are active and very easy to kill... Disenchant, just to name a card). Jace Beleren also draws the same hate, if you decide to be selfish with him. This card is amazing in multiplayer, just got tried of getting three people turns dedicated to dealing me damage, because I played a, as-of now, non threatenign enchantment.
See...I use this as a win condition. Drop it, Burn some people, cast Pox watch the bodies hit the floor. I mean you are getting some serious damage in. Here is an example.
Opponents Position
40 Life
4 Creatures
7 Cards in Hand
10 Lands
When you cast Pox your opponent is going to lose 14 life, and 9 cards. This is going to put them at 26 life. Then they are going to lose 18 life from Bloodchief Ascension. This will drop them to 8 life. You are then going to gain a ridiculous amount of life as a buffer. If the stats are "better" than the above listed...your opponents will all die. Its an amazing tool to have in this deck. This is ususally my backup plan to Ob Nixilis, the Pimp should he be shut down. You obviously don't drop this early game...it should be a win condition.
Mana cost is never an issue for this deck, and if it is, you're doing it wrong. But yeah the life loss thing can create an issue, something I'm running into with all the card draw I added to my build of the deck.
I guess the life loss isn't my biggest issue...I just can't justify needing it. Diabolic Tutor just seems better in this deck to me. I know I know...I will probably be flamed by a random troll for saying that but...here me out. The only time in the early game that I use a tutor is to find a piece that I am missing. This deck has so much accel in the deck that there really isn't a difference in a 3 drop and a 4 drop. Beyond that I already have two "damagetutors" and once I have the mana at least I have an option should I need to tutor while at a low life. This spot in the deck is obviously the weakest...but I am actually happy with Diabolic Tutor in this spot. On paper it seems bad but...in game it is actually really good.
I recentally cut Icy Manipulator from my build of the deck, but both really have purpose in the deck
While it isn't the strongest card in the deck...very often Icy Manipulator acts as another Maze of Ith but most of the time it shuts off Tolarian Academy during the upkeep. I have a hard time making this cut.
For myself personally, as ImAChampion has answered this, I make most of my deck, if not all to be good in multiplayer and 1v1 (not great, not tier 1, just good). That is why you see such cards as Chrome Mox and Dark Ritual. Wouldn't you also include Mox Diamond in that arguement as well?
Mox Diamond is a horse of a very different color. Pitching a land is very different from RFGing business. I can get my land back. I can't get back something RFGed. Thats the first point. The second is that this deck doesn't run enough black "spells" that can be pitched. You don't want to dump your mass removal or your beaters. You don't want to dump a tutor. What do you dump? Like I said...Chrome Mox and Dark Ritual are easy cuts. Thanks again for pointing that out MCR.
Emrakul, the Aeon Torn is the only "big awesome fatty" I feel is worth looking at for the deck. Mono Black has what in ways of taking extra turns? Temporal Extortion? Not that good. All three of the legendary Eldzari are good, but I really think Emrakul will be the only one worh adding to the deck. (Card draw is not a problem for this deck, and either is blowing up permanents.
Nirkana Revenant is also a must. Another Magus of the Coffers, yes please. It's pump ability is scary as well. This with any of the equipment the deck runs is just nuts.
Just saw Suffer the Past (working name), this could be really good XB - Instant
Exile X target cards from target player's graveyard. For each card you exiled this way, that player loses one life and you gain one life.
I need to work on a true 1v1 list (french ban list and non french ban list) as well as a true multiplayer list. Hopefully will have those up soon.
Mind Shatter and Mind Twist are good for 1v1...but I almost exlusively play multiplayer and these cards just don't really help. I know this is different for you since you like to keep this deck open for 1v1.
For the most part I am happy with the rest of the deck. I really want to fit Night's Whisper in this deck though. I can even see the three cards that could be cut for it...Icy Manipulator, Planar Portal, and Diabolic Tutor...I just can't bring myself to cut any of them.
One final thought. Umezawa's Jitte is argueably the best equipment ever printed. However...I find that this deck just uses it as, "Destroy target Jitte." I also understand that this deck has a hard time with artifact removal but...do you think it is worth the spot? I mean the deck only runs 12 creatures including [cardOb Nixilis, the Fallen]Ob Nixilis[/card]. Is this a card that could be a possible weak link?
Personally I prefer to play with the Planeschase planes...but I am trying to get people to vary up playing. I do tire of winning sometimes.
My playgroup and I play the hell out of planechase. Just shuffle up all the planes (community deck) and go. I want to add Vanguard eventually.
Yes and no. I had to verify the ruling but...Xiahou Dun, the One-Eyed can have his ability happen anytime before declare attackers so...I was actually confused by the wording and thought that he had to be attacking and this was a replacement...I was wrong. So technically you could cast and recast Profane Command several times in the same turn...but short of killing multiple people I don't see the point. It would just be a waste of mana. As an X spell...I just go all out if I need to. I will say that on multiple occasions I have burned several indestructible creatures with this "trick" though.
Awesome info. I'll be updated the primer tonight. Including this trick.
Yeah. Were it not for ROE having several good dudes for replacements...I think it would find its way into my deck though.
Agreed, ROE is helping this deck out quite a bit. Was/am hoping for Ob to be involved (storyline/card wise) but so far it looks like it isn't meant to be.
See...I use this as a win condition. Drop it, Burn some people, cast Pox watch the bodies hit the floor. I mean you are getting some serious damage in. Here is an example.
Opponents Position
40 Life
4 Creatures
7 Cards in Hand
10 Lands
When you cast Pox your opponent is going to lose 14 life, and 9 cards. This is going to put them at 26 life. Then they are going to lose 18 life from Bloodchief Ascension. This will drop them to 8 life. You are then going to gain a ridiculous amount of life as a buffer. If the stats are "better" than the above listed...your opponents will all die. Its an amazing tool to have in this deck. This is ususally my backup plan to Ob Nixilis, the Pimp should he be shut down. You obviously don't drop this early game...it should be a win condition.
Seriously, this is slowly becomeing the ImAChampion's Ob Nixilis primer, you've convinced me to put Bloodchief Ascension back in, I'll have an updated deck liston Wednesday. And soon the perfered 1v1, 1v1 French List, and Multiplayer list. Would like to hear your input on those. (I'll pm you once I get some 1st drafts of each together). I seem to flip flop alot when people give me input, but I'll test the idea's they give me. I'm finding I can flat out trust what you are saying when it comes to the deck.
I guess the life loss isn't my biggest issue...I just can't justify needing it. Diabolic Tutor just seems better in this deck to me. I know I know...I will probably be flamed by a random troll for saying that but...here me out. The only time in the early game that I use a tutor is to find a piece that I am missing. This deck has so much accel in the deck that there really isn't a difference in a 3 drop and a 4 drop. Beyond that I already have two "damagetutors" and once I have the mana at least I have an option should I need to tutor while at a low life. This spot in the deck is obviously the weakest...but I am actually happy with Diabolic Tutor in this spot. On paper it seems bad but...in game it is actually really good.
I support this, w/ the bold text above being the best reason. Mana isn't an issue for this deck. Diabolic Tutor is just fine. Personally I only have the one tutor that has life loss along side it, because simply I can't afford the two others currently.
While it isn't the strongest card in the deck...very often Icy Manipulator acts as another Maze of Ith but most of the time it shuts off Tolarian Academy during the upkeep. I have a hard time making this cut.
I'm going to sit down with your deck list mine. Compare and contrast, see what I can do to make mine the best I possibly can. Icy Manipulator is the card I want to have in every deck, but ends up getting the pink slip or is always getting the pink slip possiblity.
Mox Diamond is a horse of a very different color. Pitching a land is very different from RFGing business. I can get my land back. I can't get back something RFGed. Thats the first point. The second is that this deck doesn't run enough black "spells" that can be pitched. You don't want to dump your mass removal or your beaters. You don't want to dump a tutor. What do you dump? Like I said...Chrome Mox and Dark Ritual are easy cuts. Thanks again for pointing that out MCR.
I like your use of word, Business. I agree these actually are both easy cuts, I can still keep my deck good for both 1v1 and multiplayer using Sol Ring, Mox Diamond, Mana Crypt, and Mana Flare I believe. Do you agree?
Once old Marit Lage picks up a pair of Boots or dons a Cloak...good game sir.
Mind Shatter and Mind Twist are good for 1v1...but I almost exlusively play multiplayer and these cards just don't really help. I know this is different for you since you like to keep this deck open for 1v1.
I could possibly see keeping one of the two. Obviously Mind Twist over Mind Shatter, but if you feel these are necessary cuts, by all means do so.
But looking at you cuts/additions, disregarding what I just stated about Mind Twist, all solid improvements for the deck.
For the most part I am happy with the rest of the deck. I really want to fit Night's Whisper in this deck though. I can even see the three cards that could be cut for it...Icy Manipulator, Planar Portal, and Diabolic Tutor...I just can't bring myself to cut any of them.
This is very tough. I'm not even sure.
One final thought. Umezawa's Jitte is argueably the best equipment ever printed. However...I find that this deck just uses it as, "Destroy target Jitte." I also understand that this deck has a hard time with artifact removal but...do you think it is worth the spot? I mean the deck only runs 12 creatures including [cardOb Nixilis, the Fallen]Ob Nixilis[/card]. Is this a card that could be a possible weak link?
This card, as you said, is argueably the best equipment ever printed. But this card slot could be better printed as business. For you why not cut this for Night's Whisper which as you stated you were having a hard time finding room for.
Agreed, ROE is helping this deck out quite a bit. Was/am hoping for Ob to be involved (storyline/card wise) but so far it looks like it isn't meant to be.
It seems to me that this set was designed with EDH in mind. I can't see it being possible that this many cards coincidently are amazing in EDH. All of this is also after WOTC saying that they might be supporting EDH as an actual format. I don't see this as being coincidental. They are using this set as Mercadian Masques to lower the power level a little...and simultaneously giving numerous bomby cards for a different format. Its rather genius if you ask me.
Seriously, this is slowly becomeing the ImAChampion's Ob Nixilis primer, you've convinced me to put Bloodchief Ascension back in, I'll have an updated deck liston Wednesday. And soon the perfered 1v1, 1v1 French List, and Multiplayer list. Would like to hear your input on those. (I'll pm you once I get some 1st drafts of each together). I seem to flip flop alot when people give me input, but I'll test the idea's they give me. I'm finding I can flat out trust what you are saying when it comes to the deck.
I'm going to sit down with your deck list mine. Compare and contrast, see what I can do to make mine the best I possibly can. Icy Manipulator is the card I want to have in every deck, but ends up getting the pink slip or is always getting the pink slip possiblity.
This is my latest list including all cuts and most of ROE. There still some cards to be spoiled but...so far all the interesting ones are listed.
I took the liberty of comparing decklists. Here are the differences between my most current list and the one that you have on the front page. In all fairness...you haven't updated for ROE yet...but thats only 2 cards.
This card, as you said, is argueably the best equipment ever printed. But this card slot could be better printed as business. For you why not cut this for Night's Whisper which as you stated you were having a hard time finding room for.
I actually decided to stick with Umezawa's Jitte. I did however make this exchange.
I tinkered with it and the card is just to good. I practically went out of my way to skip on it...and well I finally came around and decided that it best fits this deck. I mean honestly...look at it alongside Necropotence. Its practically a tutor that nets you all the cards on the way to the card you need. I also chose it over Night's Whisper. They both acomplish the same thing except Scroll Rack is reuseable. Loxodon Warhammer on the other hand is not needed. The lifegain is all but irrelevant and the trample is negated by Whispersilk Cloak, Shizo, Death's Storehouse, and mass removal. I just can't bring myself to cut Umezawa's Jitte. Even if it is a narrow Disenchant.
Another card that looks to be kind of fun.
Repay in Kind5BB
Sorcery
Each player’s life total becomes the lowest life total among all players.
This would be hysterical alongside Bloodchief Ascension. This followed by Pox is game over for everyone except you. heh...Seriously though...this won't make the deck. I just thought it was funny. 1,000,000,000 Life eh...Repay in Kind + Pox =
@ Hunter245 lots of really good suggestions, look forward to responding to you about them. Busy here at work and just didn't want to leave you guys without a responce very longer.
I'll be working on these things and hope to have them up
wednesday,tomorrow, sometime next week. I just purchased some cards for the deck and I am gonna test them out.-1 Sinkhole (Not relevant in Multiplayer EDH. Everything else takes care of problem lands. This would be better in 1v1.)
-1 Darkness (Very Underwhelming)
-1 Planar Portal (I would rather have card draw.)
-1 Diabolic Tutor (With the inclusion of the other tutors...this one is just lacking.)
-1 Urborg (I am actively looking for a use for this card...and haven't found one. Ghost Quarter just seems way better.)
+1 Imperial Seal (My foil proxy is just too awesome for words.)
+1 Grim Tutor (Another beautiful foil proxy.)
+1 Ancient Craving (I figured this was better than either Night's Whisper or Sign in Blood.)
+1 Eternity Vessel
+1 Ghost Quarter
Like I said...I love your list. I would love to hear of any more updates that you have. Also...your "Card's I'd play if I had them" section...what would you cut for these cards:
1 Imperial Seal
1 Grim Tutor
1 Night's Whisper
1 Sign in Blood
1 Ambition's Cost
1 Ancient Craving
And one final thought. I just can't decide on what to cut for Barter in Blood. I really don't like the idea of cutting Decree of Pain. Any thoughts?
[EDH] Ob Nixilis the Fallen
WOW! Thanks for the kind words. Never though I'd hear something like that
I'll break these down one by one.
Sinkhole is only in there because this is my "pimped out" EDH deck (which I still need to take pictures of and post) and I have a Beta Sinkhole in very very good condition. But I do agree with what you said, much better for 1v1.
Darkness is a personal favorite of mine, but is probably gonna get the axe soon. The deck plays plenty of removal, and if I want to play an ability like this, Sudden Spoiling is much better as Hunter245 said a few post earlier.
Planar Portal and Diabolic Tutor are in there because I don't own a Imperal Seal and Grim Tutor
Urborg. Just cut it myself, it never did anything, posting an updated list tomorrow (I actually have some free time to do so). For a moment I had to double check which Urborg/Urborg, Tomb of Yagwmoth.
Eternity Vessel I didn't like. I know how powerful it is in this format, and how broken it is with Necropotence, I possibly just need to test with it more.
Ghost Quarter is a great idea to replace Urborg, llike I said, updated list coming
tomorrow, sometime next week. I just purchased some cards for the deck and I am gonna test them out.Using the current list I have posted
-Planar Portal and -Diabolic Tutor
You are putting better tutors. Simple change.
-Darkness, -Diabolic Edict, -Imp's Mischief, -Sinkhole(I personally won't, but I'll recomnend it to other players to cut for craw draw)
With the additional card draw, you will find answers that these cards provide faster than these cards can offer.
My theory on cutting cards, what card(s) doesn't pull it's weight on a regular basis. First impulse thought is Diabolic Edict because of Barter in Blood getting two creatures on every player. But stick to the weight pulling theory, and I believe you'll find your answer.
Glad you enjoy playing the deck. What is the best play you've had with the deck?
PLUS I'm sure you all saw All is Dust in the Rise of the Eldazri spoiler! I know, every EDH deck is stoaked about it, but for being a colored deck, this deck is going to love that card. The current list runs only thirteen colored permanents!!! And to be honest, it is probably going to go down to 12, as I believe Bane of the Living will probably be getting the axe once AID (Really wizards, didn't catch that acronym did you? Pay 7 and I'll cast AIDS) is available.
Updated list coming next week, as I picked up more card draw for the deck.
Ambition's Cost, Ancient Craving, Night's Whisper, and Sign in Blood
Plus some slight changes, and a return of a small engine that could, which never should of left the deck.
So getting a chance to sit down and reply to you sir. First off thanks for the suggestions. (Added card tags to help others)
Grim Tutor and Imperial Seal will eventually be in the list/deck. I don't play online (MWS) so my list is legit the cards I own. I set myself a budget on magic (per month), and currently can't afford getting those tutors. Too expensive to buy. I could save my budget to nab these up, but I'll probably wait for my tax return, birthday moneyz, or the ladyfriend to help me out in getting these. Totally agree with you though, they should be in. Diabolic Tutor and Planar Portal will get the axe when I get these... eventually.
Consume Spirit/Corrupt/Drain Life - These I believe are necessary, while I already know and have said, the only number that turly matters in EDH is 21, the fact that the deck abuses it's life total as a resource on a regular basis, this removal is good. Also all three of these cards can simply end the game.
Decree of Pain - I already run Mutilate, and Barter in Blood in my honest opinion, in this format is so/so. 2BB why not play Damnation or Mulitate for that mana? Plus Decree can be Infest + Draw a card.
Darkness - Sudden Spoiling is much better, but this card is probably getting the axe in the near future. As I mentioned in an earlier post, my card draw on the way.
Imp's Mischief - More than removal, change the target of Time Stretch, Stroke of Genius, and Idenity Crisis. I was gonna cut this, but I might keep it in.
Ancient Tomb I need to test with this. Could be very very good. My olny fear is this deck abuses it's life total as a resource alot already.
Volrath's Stronghold HMMM. Your point of recurring Ob has intrigued me. I'll give this a spin.
More cheap removal. - Sudden Death is probably the only cheap removal card I feel is needed. Would rather wipe the board clean.
More graveyard hate - Nezumi Graverobber, Bojuka Bog, Ravenous Trap, and Withered Wretch aren't enough? Would add Tormod's Crypt over Relic.
Mindslaver should probably be in the deck
This card is amazing in this deck. I find myself tutoring for it quite often.
I don't like either in this deck. I think that we need to maintain a large number of Snow-Covered Swamp sin the deck. Every time that gets chiseled away...the deck gets a little worse. On the same subject...I bumped Urborg in favor of Ghost Quarter and have never looked back.
Sudden Death is not needed. Mass removal is enough. Let the other decks at the table deal with 1 for 1 removal. The amount of life gain this deck offers...makes spot removal a wasted space IMO.
I would rather run Leyline of the Void over Tormod's Crypt. I am torn on Mindslaver. I do my best not to fill my deck with cards that can be used against me. This would be the same reason why I have cut Iona, Shield of Emeria from my decks. It is all to often used against me. The only time that I could see it being useful is to finish off the last person at the table. Seems like a wasted spot to me.
Like I said before...I love this deck. My buddies laughed at me when I told them that I was building a Mono Black deck in EDH in a group that is run by Arcum Dagsson and Zur the Enchanter. I guess the joke is on them. They will probably give me the same negativity towards my next project. A mono green deck that isn't Rofellos, Llanowar Emissary.
[EDH] Ob Nixilis the Fallen
Barter in Blood has been added, agree it should of been in here. All is Dust is going to help with all that Totem Armor crap.
And it has stayed. Way too good.
I tested both, and agree, this decks needs a large amount on Snow-Covered Swamps to run well. Still haven't tested Ghost Quarter
And the other decks shall. Love that line man.
Pretty much the main reason Mindslaver would find it's way back in, is if this deck was strickly for 1v1, or as you said finish off the last guy at the table. Leyline is a great idea, but what if it comes late, and your opponent already has cards in the yard? Guess same could be said about Crypt, if you get it early, and no cards are in the yard.
What are your results like against Arkum and Zur?
What is your mono green project?
The above is why I like this deck. Its irrelevant what my opponents do. I just react. I typically don't play Ob Nixilis, the Fallen until turn 15. Once I get Crucible of Worlds into play I will cast Pox, then Ob Nixilis, the Fallen, and then proceed to curb stomp. My favorite series of events ever playing this deck was the following.
Turn X: Overwhelming Forces. Draw a ridiculous amount of cards.
Turn X+1: Decree of Pain. Draw a ridiculous amount of cards.
Turn X+2: Xiahou Dun, the One-Eyed, equipped Lightning Greaves, sacrifice to bring back Decree of Pain and cast it again.
Turn X+3: No one has anymore cards in hand or creatures on the board. Now I start my Profane Command + Xiahou Dun, the One-Eyed combo to kill all 6 other people. Plus...should they have gotten crazy I could have cast Yawgmoth's Will to re-wipe the board.
I have been thinking about the deck a little...and I think that I am going to swap out Scrying Sheets for Deserted Temple. Scrying Sheets has never ever hit for me...and most of the time it would have been a waste either way. I just don't see the benefit in it. On the other hand...Deserted Temple can be amazing in the deck. Not only does it have the obvious effects with Cabal Coffers...but it can also untap your Thawing Glaciers to allow a reuse. I just feel that with only 18 snow permanents in the deck...not including Scrying Sheets because that has to be in play...it is just not reliable enough to give it a spot. Deserted Temple is equally useless by itself...but it can be a huge bonus if it gets comboed. Just my two cents.
Multani, Maro-Sorcerer. He gets the pump for every cards in everyone's hand. My delimia is whether I want to go Mono Green control, the token route, or Just big fat dudes.
[EDH] Ob Nixilis the Fallen
Nice. Appericate the info regarding those generals. (Like I said in the primer, no-one in my meta is playing those "Tier 1" generals.
I am glad you feel this way. I agree with this 100%.
I've never really kept track of what turn I typically end up playing Ob. Something I should do.
I know, I let my draws and what my opponent's plays/tells show me, when the time to play Ob is (but isn't that just playing the game? lol)
Crucible of Worlds + Pox + Ob Nixilis, the Fallen = winning games.
WOW! That is awesome. I've never thought of the syngery between Profane Command + Xiahou Dun, the One-Eyed :facepalm:. Needs to be in the Primer, with all credit going to you. Care to break it down a bit more? I believe such things like Cabal Coffers are needed. (Plus this helps your point of view regarding Deserted Temple below)
OMG! Before I read your post, I don't think I knew of that land (if I did, it sure wasn't in the front of my mind when it come to making the deck better.) Deserted Temple after reading it several times, isn't as equally useless as Scrying Sheets, it is far superior than Scrying Sheets. Lands Temple is fun with... Cabal Coffers, Thawing Glaciers (like you said), but also Maze of Ith. (Stopping two different threats from two different players w/ only two lands seems good)
MonoGreen Turbo-Fog/Voltron??? (I guess that would be Mono Green Control)
Howling Mine, Font of Mythos, Rites of Flourishing, Heartwood Storyteller, Horn of Greed
Spore Frog, Fog, (there are alot more, I just can't think of them)
Then play some equipment to protect/pump Multani even more?
Have you considered Bloodchief Ascension for lifegain? It may paint a target, but being general reliant does anyway and your general triggers counters effortlessly. I couldn't see mention of it previously, but if I am wrong I apologise.
Main Decks
Diaochan, Iroas, God of Victory, Kaalia, Marton, Ulasht, Volrath,
Kaervek, Prossh, Titania
Amusing or Themed
Progenitus
Pauper Guildmages
Azorius Boros Dimir Golgari Gruul Izzet Korozda
Orzhov Rakdos Rix Maadi Selesyna Simic Skarrg Zameck
I also play Weiss Schwarz, Chaos, Vanguard and Wixoss.
Accel World, Angel Beats, Familiar of Zero, Gargantia on the Verdurous Planet, Guilty Crown, Kill La Kill, Robotics;Notes, Sword Art Online.
Chaos Partners
Arpeggio of Blue Steel: Iona, Kirishima, Kongou.
Dangan Ronpa: Asahina, Togami.
Freezing: Vibration: Chiffon, Satelizer.
Vanguard Clans Favoured
Angel Feather, Dark Irregulars, Genesis, Neonecter, Pale Moon, Shadow Paladins, Tachikaze.
Wixoss - Just trial decks for now!
Whats funny is...people just think I don't know how to play the deck. Around turn 10 or so...they will ask me why I don't just play my general. I typically respond, "I don't need to right now." Then...once people expend their resources...I strike. I really wish that there was an Armageddon effect in Black. Anyway...Pox does the trick because it nullifies their hand, lands, and whats left of their creatures. This also sets me up with a ton of lands in the yard to abuse Crucible of Worlds. <--I really don't get why people don't destroy this as soon as they see it. The card is broken. People seem to think that I play it for no reason. I guess ignorance is bliss in their world.
Step 1: Use Xiahou Dun, the One-Eye. Put him the yard.
Step 2: Cast a huge Profane Command as a Fireball and as recursion. Return Xiahou Dun, the One-Eye to play.
Step 3: Next turn sacrifice Xiahou Dun, the One-Eye to get back Profane Command.
Step 4: Wash. Rinse. Repeat.
Yeah it has quite a few applications in the deck. I was initially testing Candelabra of Tawnos in the deck. We all know the broken effects of that and Tolarian Academy...but then I ran across this gem.
Another card that I have been trying to fit in here is General's Kabuto. I think it is probably worse than Whispersilk Cloak though. I just love the card. It gives you infi-blocks while simultaneously making your guy awesome. I will find a deck for it...
It was originally in the deck. What happened to it Tom? I didn't see it in your change log. That card is busted in Multiplayer. I had a guy pop a Nevinyrral's Disk with no other relevant threats on the board just to get rid of it after I displayed its awesome power by casting Pox. I gained something like 50 life and took someone out of the game with a one shot.
[EDH] Ob Nixilis the Fallen
1 Ob Nixilis, the Fallen
Lands:
16 Snow-Covered Swamp
1 Bloodstained Mire
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Cabal Coffers
1 Dark Depths
1 Deserted Temple
1 Esper Panorama
1 Ghost Quarter
1 Grixis Panorama
1 Jund Panorama
1 Lake of the Dead
1 Marsh Flats
1 Maze of Ith
1 Polluted Delta
1 Reliquary Tower
1 Shizo, Death's Storehouse
1 Strip Mine
1 Terramorphic Expanse
1 Thawing Glaciers
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1 Verdant Catacombs
1 Vesuva
1 Wasteland
Mana Accel:
1 Chrome Mox
1 Dark Ritual
1 Extraplanar Lens
1 Gauntlet of Power
1 Grim Monolith
1 Magus of the Coffers
1 Mana Crypt
1 Mana Vault
1 Mox Diamond
1 Solemn Simulacrum
1 Sol Ring
1 Duplicant
1 Myojin of Night's Reach
1 Nezumi Graverobber
1 Sundering Titan
1 Vampire Hexmage
1 Withered Wretch
1 Xiahou Dun, the One-Eyed
Board Sweepers:
1 Bane of the Living
1 Barter in Blood
1 Damnation
1 Death Cloud
1 Decree of Pain
1 Mutilate
1 Nevinyrral's Disk
1 Oblivion Stone
1 Overwhelming Forces
1 Pox
Draw Spells / Tutors
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Diabolic Tutor
1 Graveborn Muse
1 Imperial Seal
1 Necropotence
1 Phyrexian Arena
1 Planar Portal
1 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Sign in Blood
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Yawgmoth's Will
1 Crucible of Worlds
1 Expedition Map
1 Icy Manipulator
1 Lightning Greaves
1 Loxodon Warhammer
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Whispersilk Cloak
Other Spells:
1 Beacon of Unrest
1 Bloodchief Ascension
1 Consume Spirit
1 Corrupt
1 Diabolic Edict
1 Drain Life
1 Grim Discovery
1 Imp's Mischief
1 Mind Shatter
1 Mind Twist
1 Profane Command
1 Ravenous Trap
1 Tendrils of Corruption
Planeswalkers:
1 Lilliana Vess
1 Sorin Markov
I am trying to decide where to put Mishra's Helix at. I really like Icy Manipulator in this deck but...I have a hard time justifying having them both in this deck.
I have also kind of grown attached to Diabolic Tutor. I think I am going to leave it in the deck instead of Grim Tutor. I can see situations where the loss of life could be relevant. Beyond that...this deck produces so much mana...it really doesn't seem like the mana cost is a problem.
[EDH] Ob Nixilis the Fallen
Step 1: cast general
step 2: put lands into play.
Did general die?
Play 2 lands. Repeat.
A monkey could pilot this guy to victory. He's in a colour steeped with removal, has built in redundancy by repleneshing your life total, offers both direct damage and very easily rises to deadly general damage with the +1+1 counters.
He's a powerful general for sure, but he doesn't exactly tax your brain to figure out what to do.
I realize that I play a fairly different mono black list, but I've played with almost every card in MBC and I have to question a few card choices from a multiplayer standpoint:
- Dark Ritual & Chrome Mox: I don't see these being good in multiplayer, like, ever. They are card disadvantage for a minuscule speed boost. I understand you run Pox and the likes but that isn't enough to be giving up valuable slots. If I were to make cuts, these would be the first to go. The ONLY nuts play I can actually see is an early Myojin of Night's Reach, and that can be done with the help of good mana artifacts already.
- Hexmage Depths: this combo has always been super sketch in EDH. In fact, every time it has actually resolved AGAINST me (that's about 1 in 30 games), I've had an answer. It's just not that good. Hexmage is an arguable inclusion, but even she is a bit narrow.
- Overwhelming Forces: this is pretty bad in multiplayer. Why? Read the errata :/
One-Eyed Black | Orzhov Combo | Ooze Reanimator | Mindwheeling Pain
Nom Nom Nom little troll. Play the deck and then come back and talk.I can't tell if you are trolling or genuinely don't understand this deck. I will give you the benefit of the doubt and actually respond. The biggest part about playing this deck that you must understand is how to properly play politics. You must read your opponents to plan the best time to make your attack. As I stated earlier...I typically don't play Ob Nixilis, the Fallen until turn 15 because I want to leave my options open. If you don't understand the intricacies of playing a control deck in multiplayer...then this deck isn't for you. All control decks seems simple on the surface. However a good control player knows what and when to respond to and what to ignore. Its considerably more difficult than you are making it out to be.Then again...were a monkey to pilot this deck he might have an advantage. I know I wouldn't sit at a table with a monkey flinging crap at me.
Chrome Mox has been on my chopping block for quite some time now. I guess I never really thought about Dark Ritual. I guess I have just been so drawn to the card from previous experience that I forced it through. I honestly don't know why I would have ignored that but been against Chrome Mox. Thanks for pointing this out. I would like to hear what Tom has to say on that. I think I found some room for several ROE cards.
The reason why I like this combo is because each piece is ok without the other. Vampire Hexmage is amazing for several reasons. Planeswalkers are an absolute nightmare for mono black. This gives us an out. Beyond that...the amount of mana that this deck produces sometimes needs a place to go. At the end of a turn it is not uncommon for me to have an extra 10-15 mana. Lets not forget about Lightning Greaves and Whispersilk Cloak. I have watched him wreck several people before they were able to stop him.I like him in here. He is also a legend so Shizo, Death's Storehouse can also help dish out some damage.
Ouch. I have never read the Oracle text for Overwhelming Forces. So not only is it already strictly worse than Decree of Pain...its now even more strictly worse. Yuck. I may actually consider playing Plague Wind in its place. Damn...this really upsets me. I paid $30 for this card because it quite plainly states the intent of the card.
[EDH] Ob Nixilis the Fallen
The only difference between this and ashling the pilgrim is that you actually need to dedicate some deckspace to removal, you can't quite do 99-lands-ob-nixilis, but its about that complicated.
@Tom,
After looking over the 108 cards currently on the spoiler...there are several cards that stand out as hopefuls for this deck.
All is Dust - This seems like a sure thing for this deck. It wipes the board while leaving our artifacts alone. It has its ups and downs when compared to Nevinrral's Disk and Oblivion Stone...either way I think this is going to be a fine addition to this deck.
Emrakul, the Aeons Torn, Kozilek, Butcher of Truth, and Ulamog, the Infinite Pyre - As with every other EDH deck...this card has shown a blip on the radar. These seem amazing...but I am undecided if this deck needs any of them.
Nirkana Revenant - Another Magus of the Coffers with a kill condition attached. I fail to see a reason not to run this guy.
[EDH] Ob Nixilis the Fallen
Multiplayer games truly do force people to play fair. Zombie Master sounds fun, I'm going to try that out with my play group.
I get that alot as well. Several games, Ob will come out early. And I mean turn 2 early (T1 Snow-Covered Swamp, Sol Ring. T2 Dark Ritual, Ob Nixilis, the Fallen, Bloodstained Mire) But other games, he might not hit the board till turn 10+ (played a few games where I never played Ob). How people don't understand why Crucible of Worlds is in this deck confuses and frightens me
I should of been a little more clear. I thought you were hitting this several times in a turn lol. (Which I think might be possible)
I think the land will work well, Candleabra of Tawnos while good, I'm not sure if it is really needed... (Allthough it makes cards like Consume Spirit, Drain Life, Profane Command, Death Cloud stupid)
That card is awesome, but like you said it is worse than Whispersilk Cloak. Defentally a deck is out there. My buddy had a Godo, Bandit Warlord deck, I'm gonna suggest this card to him.
Bloodchief Ascension caught me beatdowns, alot. My group is a little weird. Bloodchief and Luminarch Ascension catch you beat downs (even though they aren't a problem till they are active and very easy to kill... Disenchant, just to name a card). Jace Beleren also draws the same hate, if you decide to be selfish with him. This card is amazing in multiplayer, just got tried of getting three people turns dedicated to dealing me damage, because I played a, as-of now, non threatenign enchantment.
Mana cost is never an issue for this deck, and if it is, you're doing it wrong. But yeah the life loss thing can create an issue, something I'm running into with all the card draw I added to my build of the deck.
I recentally cut Icy Manipulator from my build of the deck, but both really have purpose in the deck
Took the words out of mouth.
ImAChampion, thanks for dealing with the troll. Seriously this is becoming a Tom Servo and ImAChampion Ob Nixilis primer. Everything has been very helpful. Thank you.
For myself personally, as ImAChampion has answered this, I make most of my deck, if not all to be good in multiplayer and 1v1 (not great, not tier 1, just good). That is why you see such cards as Chrome Mox and Dark Ritual. Wouldn't you also include Mox Diamond in that arguement as well?
Hexmage Depths. Why not? Kidding, once again ImAChampion pulling through with the great reasoning for those cards/combo to be in the deck.
I just found out about the errata to Overwhelming Forces last night. I'm not happy about it what-so-ever. I know ImAChampion suggested Plague Wind, but I think the forthcomming All is Dust will go in here. This really saddens me, I paid $40 for my Chinese Overwhelming Forces.
Didn't miss anything on my radar.
All is Dust is a must, gave my thoughts on it replacing Overwhelming Forces a few sentences ago.
Emrakul, the Aeon Torn is the only "big awesome fatty" I feel is worth looking at for the deck. Mono Black has what in ways of taking extra turns? Temporal Extortion? Not that good. All three of the legendary Eldzari are good, but I really think Emrakul will be the only one worh adding to the deck. (Card draw is not a problem for this deck, and either is blowing up permanents.
Nirkana Revenant is also a must. Another Magus of the Coffers, yes please. It's pump ability is scary as well. This with any of the equipment the deck runs is just nuts.
Just saw Suffer the Past (working name), this could be really good
XB - Instant
Exile X target cards from target player's graveyard. For each card you exiled this way, that player loses one life and you gain one life.
I need to work on a true 1v1 list (french ban list and non french ban list) as well as a true multiplayer list. Hopefully will have those up soon.
Yes and no. I had to verify the ruling but...Xiahou Dun, the One-Eyed can have his ability happen anytime before declare attackers so...I was actually confused by the wording and thought that he had to be attacking and this was a replacement...I was wrong. So technically you could cast and recast Profane Command several times in the same turn...but short of killing multiple people I don't see the point. It would just be a waste of mana. As an X spell...I just go all out if I need to. I will say that on multiple occasions I have burned several indestructible creatures with this "trick" though.
Yeah. Were it not for ROE having several good dudes for replacements...I think it would find its way into my deck though.
See...I use this as a win condition. Drop it, Burn some people, cast Pox watch the bodies hit the floor. I mean you are getting some serious damage in. Here is an example.
Opponents Position
40 Life
4 Creatures
7 Cards in Hand
10 Lands
When you cast Pox your opponent is going to lose 14 life, and 9 cards. This is going to put them at 26 life. Then they are going to lose 18 life from Bloodchief Ascension. This will drop them to 8 life. You are then going to gain a ridiculous amount of life as a buffer. If the stats are "better" than the above listed...your opponents will all die. Its an amazing tool to have in this deck. This is ususally my backup plan to Ob Nixilis, the Pimp should he be shut down. You obviously don't drop this early game...it should be a win condition.
I guess the life loss isn't my biggest issue...I just can't justify needing it. Diabolic Tutor just seems better in this deck to me. I know I know...I will probably be flamed by a random troll for saying that but...here me out. The only time in the early game that I use a tutor is to find a piece that I am missing. This deck has so much accel in the deck that there really isn't a difference in a 3 drop and a 4 drop. Beyond that I already have two "damage tutors" and once I have the mana at least I have an option should I need to tutor while at a low life. This spot in the deck is obviously the weakest...but I am actually happy with Diabolic Tutor in this spot. On paper it seems bad but...in game it is actually really good.
While it isn't the strongest card in the deck...very often Icy Manipulator acts as another Maze of Ith but most of the time it shuts off Tolarian Academy during the upkeep. I have a hard time making this cut.
Mox Diamond is a horse of a very different color. Pitching a land is very different from RFGing business. I can get my land back. I can't get back something RFGed. Thats the first point. The second is that this deck doesn't run enough black "spells" that can be pitched. You don't want to dump your mass removal or your beaters. You don't want to dump a tutor. What do you dump? Like I said...Chrome Mox and Dark Ritual are easy cuts. Thanks again for pointing that out MCR.
Once old Marit Lage picks up a pair of Boots or dons a Cloak...good game sir.
Here are my plans for cuts in the deck.
Chrome Mox
Dark Ritual
Grim Discovery
Mind Twist
Mind Shatter
Overwhelming Forces
Newbs on the Roster:
Ancient Craving
Ambition's Cost
All is Dust (ROE)
Nirkana Revenant (ROE)
Emrakul, the Aeon Torn (ROE)
Suffer the Past (ROE)
Mind Shatter and Mind Twist are good for 1v1...but I almost exlusively play multiplayer and these cards just don't really help. I know this is different for you since you like to keep this deck open for 1v1.
One final thought. Umezawa's Jitte is argueably the best equipment ever printed. However...I find that this deck just uses it as, "Destroy target Jitte." I also understand that this deck has a hard time with artifact removal but...do you think it is worth the spot? I mean the deck only runs 12 creatures including [cardOb Nixilis, the Fallen]Ob Nixilis[/card]. Is this a card that could be a possible weak link?
[EDH] Ob Nixilis the Fallen
My playgroup and I play the hell out of planechase. Just shuffle up all the planes (community deck) and go. I want to add Vanguard eventually.
Awesome info. I'll be updated the primer tonight. Including this trick.
Agreed, ROE is helping this deck out quite a bit. Was/am hoping for Ob to be involved (storyline/card wise) but so far it looks like it isn't meant to be.
Seriously, this is slowly becomeing the ImAChampion's Ob Nixilis primer, you've convinced me to put Bloodchief Ascension back in, I'll have an updated deck liston Wednesday. And soon the perfered 1v1, 1v1 French List, and Multiplayer list. Would like to hear your input on those. (I'll pm you once I get some 1st drafts of each together). I seem to flip flop alot when people give me input, but I'll test the idea's they give me. I'm finding I can flat out trust what you are saying when it comes to the deck.
I support this, w/ the bold text above being the best reason. Mana isn't an issue for this deck. Diabolic Tutor is just fine. Personally I only have the one tutor that has life loss along side it, because simply I can't afford the two others currently.
I'm going to sit down with your deck list mine. Compare and contrast, see what I can do to make mine the best I possibly can. Icy Manipulator is the card I want to have in every deck, but ends up getting the pink slip or is always getting the pink slip possiblity.
I like your use of word, Business. I agree these actually are both easy cuts, I can still keep my deck good for both 1v1 and multiplayer using Sol Ring, Mox Diamond, Mana Crypt, and Mana Flare I believe. Do you agree?
Shizo, Death's Storehouse, while doesn't protect the big nasty things, makes it get in there.
I could possibly see keeping one of the two. Obviously Mind Twist over Mind Shatter, but if you feel these are necessary cuts, by all means do so.
But looking at you cuts/additions, disregarding what I just stated about Mind Twist, all solid improvements for the deck.
This is very tough. I'm not even sure.
This card, as you said, is argueably the best equipment ever printed. But this card slot could be better printed as business. For you why not cut this for Night's Whisper which as you stated you were having a hard time finding room for.
It was your idea. I am just posting my findings.
1 Ob Nixilis, the Fallen
Lands: 38
16 Snow-Covered Swamp
1 Bloodstained Mire
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Cabal Coffers
1 Dark Depths
1 Deserted Temple
1 Esper Panorama
1 Ghost Quarter
1 Grixis Panorama
1 Jund Panorama
1 Lake of the Dead
1 Marsh Flats
1 Maze of Ith
1 Polluted Delta
1 Reliquary Tower
1 Shizo, Death's Storehouse
1 Strip Mine
1 Terramorphic Expanse
1 Thawing Glaciers
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1 Verdant Catacombs
1 Vesuva
1 Wasteland
Mana Accel: 10
1 Extraplanar Lens
1 Gauntlet of Power
1 Grim Monolith
1 Magus of the Coffers
1 Mana Crypt
1 Mana Vault
1 Mox Diamond
1 Nirkana Revenant
1 Solemn Simulacrum
1 Sol Ring
1 Ambition's Cost
1 Ancient Craving
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Diabolic Tutor
1 Graveborn Muse
1 Imperial Seal
1 Necropotence
1 Phyrexian Arena
1 Planar Portal
1 Scroll Rack
1 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Sign in Blood
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Yawgmoth's Will
Board Sweepers: 10
1 All is Dust
1 Bane of the Living
1 Barter in Blood
1 Damnation
1 Death Cloud
1 Decree of Pain
1 Mutilate
1 Nevinyrral's Disk
1 Oblivion Stone
1 Pox
Other Creatures: 8
1 Duplicant
1 Emrakul, the Aeon Torn
1 Myojin of Night's Reach
1 Nezumi Graverobber
1 Sundering Titan
1 Vampire Hexmage
1 Withered Wretch
1 Xiahou Dun, the One-Eyed
1 Crucible of Worlds
1 Expedition Map
1 Icy Manipulator
1 Lightning Greaves
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Whispersilk Cloak
Other Spells: 11
1 Beacon of Unrest
1 Bloodchief Ascension
1 Consume Spirit
1 Corrupt
1 Diabolic Edict
1 Drain Life
1 Imp's Mischief
1 Profane Command
1 Ravenous Trap
1 Suffer the Past
1 Tendrils of Corruption
Planeswalkers: 2
1 Lilliana Vess
1 Sorin Markov
I took the liberty of comparing decklists. Here are the differences between my most current list and the one that you have on the front page. In all fairness...you haven't updated for ROE yet...but thats only 2 cards.
1 Deserted Temple
1 Ghost Quarter
1 Vesuva
Mana Accel:
1 Nirkana Revenant
1 Imperial Seal
1 Planar Portal
1 Scroll Rack
Board Sweepers:
1 All is Dust
1 Emrakul, the Aeon Torn
Other Artifacts:
1 Icy Manipulator
Other Spells:
1 Bloodchief Ascension
1 Diabolic Edict
1 Suffer the Past
1 Snow-Covered Swamp
1 Scrying Sheets
1 Terrain Generator
Mana Accel:
1 Chrome Mox
1 Dark Ritual
1 Journeyer's Kite
1 Grim Discovery
1 Night's Whisper
Board Sweepers:
1 Overwhelming Forces
1 Loxodon Warhammer
1 Mind Shatter
1 Mind Twist
1 Sinkhole
This is how I would exchange the cards personally.
Snow-Covered Swamp --> Vesuva (CIPT Snow-Covered Swamp.)
Scrying Sheets --> Deserted Temple (Combo & Protection over limited CA.)
Terrain Generator --> Ghost Quarter (LD or instant speed Landfall for you.)
Chrome Mox --> Icy Manipulator (Protection over minor limiting accel.)
Dark Ritual --> Nirkana Revenant (Permanent vs. Temporary.)
Journeyer's Kite --> Planar Portal (Limiting vs. Anything.)
Night's Whisper --> Scroll Rack (Same thing but bigger selection.)
Grim Discovery --> Imperial Seal (Budget concerns.)
Loxodon Warhammer --> Bloodchief Ascension (Both give life gain...one is a win condition.)
Overwhelming Forces --> All is Dust (Boo Oracle. Yeah good cards.)
Sinkhole --> Diabolic Edict (Personal Choice.)
Mind Twist --> Suffer the Past (Making Enemies should should deal damage.)
Mind Shatter --> Emrakul, the Aeon Torn (Eh...for WHOA!!)
-1 Loxodon Warhammer
+1 Scroll Rack
I tinkered with it and the card is just to good. I practically went out of my way to skip on it...and well I finally came around and decided that it best fits this deck. I mean honestly...look at it alongside Necropotence. Its practically a tutor that nets you all the cards on the way to the card you need. I also chose it over Night's Whisper. They both acomplish the same thing except Scroll Rack is reuseable. Loxodon Warhammer on the other hand is not needed. The lifegain is all but irrelevant and the trample is negated by Whispersilk Cloak, Shizo, Death's Storehouse, and mass removal. I just can't bring myself to cut Umezawa's Jitte. Even if it is a narrow Disenchant.
Another card that looks to be kind of fun.
Sorcery
Each player’s life total becomes the lowest life total among all players.
This would be hysterical alongside Bloodchief Ascension. This followed by Pox is game over for everyone except you. heh...Seriously though...this won't make the deck. I just thought it was funny. 1,000,000,000 Life eh...Repay in Kind + Pox =
[EDH] Ob Nixilis the Fallen
Thanks to ImAChampion for his work on the article
Thanks to DarkNightCavalier from Heroes of the Plane Studios for the banner
Have updated deck list and more up this weekend, super busy. Sorry for the delay all