To be honest the combination of death Cloud, Pox, & Acension never really pans out for me. Maybe its because I go with the alternative win cons, but from my experience with this deck it doesn't "go off".
I guess the acension can stand on its own since it gives you life. but I just never think black is that ahead that it can pull off the death cloud/Pox.
I haven't cut these yet because Its all I've known for a while now lol. Maybe I'm just using them wrong. I would probably suggest cutting ravenous trap. You have lots of graveyard hate as it is. I don't think losing Trap will hurt the deck much. Well its only a suggestion if you're serious about putting in Geth.
To be honest the combination of death Cloud, Pox, & Acension never really pans out for me. Maybe its because I go with the alternative win cons, but from my experience with this deck it doesn't "go off".
I guess the acension can stand on its own since it gives you life. but I just never think black is that ahead that it can pull off the death cloud/Pox.
I haven't cut these yet because Its all I've known for a while now lol. Maybe I'm just using them wrong. I would probably suggest cutting ravenous trap. You have lots of graveyard hate as it is. I don't think losing Trap will hurt the deck much. Well its only a suggestion if you're serious about putting in Geth.
I just got that combo off last night, and back to back. Pox, next turn, Death Cloud, won the game.
Graverobber can bring back creatures, eventually. Wretch fuels Graveborn Muse. Ravenous Trap can be free, key word is can. Suffer the Past is another Drain. Bojuka Bog is a land, awesome.
I have the same experience with Death Cloud and Pox effects in general. MBC hardly ever wants to give up lands, so you never really want to cast Death Cloud early unless it's for a very small number. I guess it's a cute combo with Bloodchief Ascension, but I'd rather not have to rely on that. Either way, I'm going to be running Exsanguinate, which is now the superior drain in the format anyways
I have the same experience with Death Cloud and Pox effects in general. MBC hardly ever wants to give up lands, so you never really want to cast Death Cloud early unless it's for a very small number. I guess it's a cute combo with Bloodchief Ascension, but I'd rather not have to rely on that. Either way, I'm going to be running Exsanguinate, which is now the superior drain in the format anyways
I've might of said it is good, but it is fun and cute as you said. With Exsanguinate coming out, I can see cutting Bloodchief Ascension.
So I'm not putting a full updated deck list, but changes for Post-Scars include
As for the rest of the cards in this set...I think this deck needs to be "scrapped" and start fresh. This picking and choosing what to replace isn't doing the deck any justice.
The first thing that needs to happen is...this deck needs an identity. Is this deck going to be MBC, MBCombo, Hybrid, or Ramping Fatties?
Personally I am sticking with MBC...which Ob Nixilis, the Fallen is perfect for. This means that the goal of my deck is to absolutely control the game and then pick off the weak one by one as the correct time presents itself. Bloodchief Ascension is just to powerful to drop. This combos so well with so much of this deck. This is a MBC Finisher if I have ever seen one.
Hopefully I will be able to put up my new creation soon. <--Don't expect anything drastically different from my other version but...there will be some subtle changes.
As for the rest of the cards in this set...I think this deck needs to be "scrapped" and start fresh. This picking and choosing what to replace isn't doing the deck any justice.
The first thing that needs to happen is...this deck needs an identity. Is this deck going to be MBC, MBCombo, Hybrid, or Ramping Fatties?
Personally I am sticking with MBC...which Ob Nixilis, the Fallen is perfect for. This means that the goal of my deck is to absolutely control the game and then pick off the weak one by one as the correct time presents itself. Bloodchief Ascension is just to powerful to drop. This combos so well with so much of this deck. This is a MBC Finisher if I have ever seen one.
Hopefully I will be able to put up my new creation soon. <--Don't expect anything drastically different from my other version but...there will be some subtle changes.
Yes there are plenty of interactions with Death Cloud without Bloodchief Ascension. I still think it is a bad idea to remove it though.
The bolded part is very true, I just haven't had time to actually do that, and well, with out the entire set being out, thus the picking and choosing.
I feel like the deck is MBControl/MBCombo. You've got big gaming spells, some beats for the finish, plenty of cards to answer your opponent's threats. Plus there is several card interactions that make some possible game winning combos. A big plus of this deck for me, is it's versatility.
When it comes to Bloodchief Ascension, I don't know. I rather have an answer than something that requires "What if's"
Like you said, and I agree with, this deck needs to be scrapped and started fresh.
I'm playing Mono Black, do you mind giving me your personal reasons for playing Ob Nixilis over other MB Generals? I know your first page gives some details but in a multiplayer game, Ob Nixilis seems to make a few enemies. Distributing 3 damage everywhere seems to do that. Atm i'm using Korlash, but i've also tested Xiahou Dun (which is broken but seems to make every game the same, tutor for Corpse Dance etc), Kagemaro (not good enough without a lot of spesific card draw), Balthor (not enough creatures). Which basically leaves me with Korlash. Just wondering why you like Ob Nixilis over all other generals
I'm playing Mono Black, do you mind giving me your personal reasons for playing Ob Nixilis over other MB Generals? I know your first page gives some details but in a multiplayer game, Ob Nixilis seems to make a few enemies. Distributing 3 damage everywhere seems to do that. Atm i'm using Korlash, but i've also tested Xiahou Dun (which is broken but seems to make every game the same, tutor for Corpse Dance etc), Kagemaro (not good enough without a lot of spesific card draw), Balthor (not enough creatures). Which basically leaves me with Korlash. Just wondering why you like Ob Nixilis over all other generals
Great primer btw :).
This deck is a control deck. As such Aggro generals really aren't that appealing. Xiahou Dun, the One-Eyed looks to be a better general for this deck until you pick it up and play it. He is for a combo version. While this deck may have a combo element in it...it is very much a control deck.
Ob Nixilis, the Fallen allows you to play him at your leasure...all the while building up "fetchlands" in play alongside Cruicible of Worlds. When you finally play him...someone dies. On multiple occasions I have had games that look like this:
I can't tell you how often this method works. The best part about it is...this is a reactive strategy which a Control deck thrives on. As I have said multiple times in this thread...the reason this deck wins so consistantly for me is because I don't have to do anything. I have the ability to control the game for as long as I need.
To answer your question, Ob Nixilis, the Fallen fits perfectly with both my playstyle and with the deck. Try it out and you will see. Just a side note...I usually don't play him until turn 15 or 16. <--Serious.
ImAChampion perfectly explained how Ob Nixilis is such a good decision for Mono Black Control, and how it doesn't get you straight hated of the table. Some generals will get you hate from the table and the game hasn't even started.
Small post, at work on the mobile Internet, just saw Nim Deathmantle on the spoiler, and I was thinking this card might be more versatile than Loxodon Warhammer. Helps fuel Graveborn Muse, evasion, and has some recursion. Not to shabby. Thoughts???
1 Drain Life - Strictly worse than it's much younger brother Consume Spirit...Exsanguinate is a better card in this deck...even though it can't kill creatures.
1 Myojin of Night's Reach - The thought of this guy is amazing...but he just never really brings the beef. Often times I find this going to the top with Scroll Rack.
1 Planar Portal - This card is very clunky for me. It eats a turn coming out, eats a turn to search, all to get a Demonic Tutor. eh...
1 Ravenous Trap - Easily the least needed graveyard hate spell in the deck.
1 Exsanguinate - It seems really silly not to play this card in a Multiplayer format.
1 Promise of Power - By taking out a card that only drew cards and replacing it with a versatile card that can double as a win condition...I have increased my threat capability. This seems like an obvious inclusion.
1 Geth, Lord of the Vault - It is ashame that this can only target opponent's but...this seems amazing in EDH. He has a big body with evasion to top things off.
1 It that Betrays - This is a card that I have been meaning to find room for. It is amazing with this deck. I can't wait to play Pox and watch people cry.
1 Mimic Vat - I glazed over this at first...and then I realized that this doesn't have to be your creatures...and it is a may ability. This seems really strong.
Overall I was a bit disappointed with myself. I expected to cut a lot more than I did. A lot of the cuts came in earlier versions like adding in Mystifying Maze and Grave Titan...but this deck is very tight. Black has so many good cards...and Artifacts work so well with Black that it is hard to deviate from the core of this deck.
For those who are still obsessed with Ring's of Brighthearth...I considered cutting Beacon of Unrest for it...but ultimately decided not to. If I were to make a cut thought...that would be it.
Let me know what you think. All comments are welcomed.
On the mobile phone again, post deck list within the next few days, but I agree, Mimic Vat is freaking nuts. I can't believe I missed that in the spoiler. Way powerful, and super abusable with some of the creatures this deck runs, Solemn Simulacrum, Sundering Titan, Xiahou Dun, the One Eyed, or Grave Titan. Also yanking other big threats is way good. Exsanguinate is like we all thought the best drain in the format.
I haven't had a chance to play Geth, Lord of the Vault or Steel Hellkite yet, but like we have talked about they fit the deck way to well.
I am excited with the changes this deck is going through and how well it is playing. Seriously way good and way fun. And as a hint ImAChampion's list and mine are very very similar, but slightly different.
On the mobile phone again, post deck list within the next few days, but I agree, Mimic Vat is freaking nuts. I can't believe I missed that in the spoiler. Way powerful, and super abusable with some of the creatures this deck runs, Solemn Simulacrum, Sundering Titan, Xiahou Dun, the One Eyed, or Grave Titan. Also yanking other big threats is way good. Exsanguinate is like we all thought the best drain in the format.
I haven't had a chance to play Geth, Lord of the Vault or Steel Hellkite yet, but like we have talked about they fit the deck way to well.
Don't forget that you can steal your opponent's stuff. The other day I enjoyed the card draw off my opponent's Mulldrifter. I must have used it for 5-6 turns straight before I literally didn't need any more cards. EDH is filled with CIP effects...this card just abuses them. I think that as people start to see this cards impact in a game...this will become an EDH staple.
So lets compare, (keep in my this is all my opinion about the following cards)
Terramorphic Expanse, I feel this card isn't needed at this point. The deck runs sixteen basic lands, and has eight (my list at least) different fetchlands in it. Exactly half the amount of basic we are running.
Rings of Brighthearth, we have discussed this in the thread several times. Different strokes for different folks.
Imperial Seal, I'd play it if I owned one or could afford it. Plain and simple lol.
Umezawa's Jitte has found it's way back into the deck,I feel it is no longer just a fancy, focused, disenchant. With Exsanguinate now in the deck, Loxodon Warhammer isn't needed anymore. Another reason for Jitte's return, is it helps against Gaddock Teeg
I'm playing the deck tonight, probably for every game I play with my playgroup, I'll post findings about it this week, as well as update the first page of the primer.
*Sigh* Here you go with your logic and common sense Tom. I think you are right about Terramorphic Expanse. When I cut Mana Crypt I replaced it with Mystifying Maze...a land. I felt that both accomplished the same goal...in an abstract way...getting you mana. I have enjoyed supporting 39 lands in the deck but I think I need to concede that Rings of Brighthearth could creep its way into my deck.
A couple days ago I had a huge write up of several games that I played...but when I Submitted the post...MTGSalvation had a 404 error...and I lost everything. Lesson...use a Word Program or "Ctr+C" often.
Turn 11: Use everything to float 34 B. I cast Exsanguinate for 32 killing 5 people. I didn't bother to count the life gained. This left me with only a Karn player...without anything in play.
I played a fetchland from the graveyard and showed him Corrupt. If he could have survived the 6 damage from the lands & the 9 damage from Ob Nixilis, the Fallen...I had another 12 damage coming his way.
Anyway, This was my favorite win of the night. I had it considerably more detailed the other day but...well...you get the picture. I look forward to your write up.
So...has anyone besides myself and Tom been causing Mayham with this deck?
So...has anyone besides myself and Tom been causing Mayham with this deck?
Well i'm playing Korlash as my general atm. Our decklists aren't to far away from each other. I don't like playing cards that people don't like though, Death Cloud, Pox and Sorin Markov etc. I'm also playing less Lifegain. However i'm playing a lot more creatures.
So far, cards i've been unsatisfied with:
Imp's Mischief - I think this card is amazing, it just does not fit in our playgroup. There's not much Mind Twist, Mind Sludge or targeted draw in our playgroup. However it's one of the cards i like alot.
Lets see from Tom Servos list; the cards i'm not running:
- Swamp
- Grim Monolith
- Mox Diamond
- Mana Vault
- Magus of the Coffers
- Ambition's Cost
- Scroll Rack (don't have one)
- Sensei's Divining Top (don't have one)
- Tendrils of Corruption
- Sorin Markov
- Diabolic Edict
- Bloodchief Ascension
- Corrupt
- Mimic Vat (don't have one)
- Sundering Titan
- It That Betrays
- Crucible of Worlds
- Rings of Brightheart
- Whispersilk Cloak
- Icy Manipulator
- Pox
- Nevin's Disk
- Vampire Hexmage
- Death Cloud
- Bane of the Living
- Barter in Blood
- Ob Nixilis
+ Avatar of Woe
+ Reiver Demon
+ Skeletal Scrying
+ Chill to the Bone
+ Crystal Ball
+ Promise of Power
+ Consuming Vapors
+ Dread
+ Phyrexian Reclamation
+ Nezumi Graverobber
+ Nightmare Lash
+ Armillary Sphere
+ Night's Whisper
+ Syphon Mind
+ Crypt Rats
+ Necrotic Ooze
+ Ink-Eyes Servant of the Ooni
+ Chainer Dementia Master
+ Shriekmaw
+ Fleshbag Marauder
+ Animate Dead
+ Necromancy
+ Faceless Butcher
+ Maga Traitor of Mortals
+ Kagemaro, First to Suffer
+ Sudden Death
+ Gilded Lotus
+ Corpse Dance
+ Enslave
I'm playing a lot more creatures and playing a lot more recursion than you guys do. It's kinda like a control deck, but i'm playing a lot more aggro. Besides if you don't play alot of creatures in my meta you will be hit alot. If you play mass discard or mass land destruction you will get hit. Besides i hate Sundering Titan xP. So that's why i'm not using those kind of cards
The deck does quite well though and it's quite powerfull :), i definitely have a good time but i still get targeted a lot ^^,.
Hello Tom and Imachampion! I just put together a list basically the same as your guys this past week and after two nights of games I can say its the most fun I have had playing EDH in a while. I have been playing a Zur control/combo deck for a while now and the games just got so boring. Having a combo finish is the lamest thing in the world. The games were always the same. Wrath the board a few times, tutor for Top/Helm of Awakening/Future Sight, play Top a bunch, then just Tendrils of Agony everyone. Playing a mono black control deck like this feels like I am playing fair while out sacrificing power. It also actually takes thinking, unlike my Zur combo deck.
Things that I love:
1.) Death Cloud or Pox or All is Dust and It That Betrays. Even if you don't have It That Betrays in play, the deck's ability to recover after a huge Death Cloud is fantastic.
2.) Extraplanar Lens and Gauntlet of Power with X spells, Exsanguinate in particular, is awesome. After I Myojin of Night's Reach'd everyones hand on turn 4 and got hated to 6 life, I casted Exsanguinate for 19 on a 5 person table. I then killed two people with a huge Consume Spirit and Profane Command. Unfortunately I lost when the Teneb player cast Living Death with 80% of his library in his graveyard.
Things that I have trouble with (any help would be appreciated):
1.) Planeswalkers. Ugh they are not fun to deal with, especially when a friend of mine has a 5 color planeswalker/proliferate deck.
2.) Counterspells. I can only Imp's Mischief so many times. I face a lot of blue so I will probably be adding Boseiju, Who Shelters All which will help a lot.
3.) I realize this deck has very little graveyard recursion which can be problematic if games go long.
4.) Deciding what to do. This deck makes a lot of decisions. I often find myself with a Demonic Tutor in my opening hand and no idea what to find with it. I also have trouble determining what to answer and when to start laying down permanents which can be destroyed with my own sweepers. This is especially troublesome with Bloodchief Ascension which takes time to get online.
That is all I have for now, got to run to do some homework. Ill continue to post my findings as I play the deck.
Hello Tom and Imachampion! I just put together a list basically the same as your guys this past week and after two nights of games I can say its the most fun I have had playing EDH in a while. I have been playing a Zur control/combo deck for a while now and the games just got so boring. Having a combo finish is the lamest thing in the world. The games were always the same. Wrath the board a few times, tutor for Top/Helm of Awakening/Future Sight, play Top a bunch, then just Tendrils of Agony everyone. Playing a mono black control deck like this feels like I am playing fair while out sacrificing power. It also actually takes thinking, unlike my Zur combo deck.
Yep...sometimes you have to put away the cheap stuff and bring out the Top Shelf.
1.) Death Cloud or Pox or All is Dust and It That Betrays. Even if you don't have It That Betrays in play, the deck's ability to recover after a huge Death Cloud is fantastic.
2.) Extraplanar Lens and Gauntlet of Power with X spells, Exsanguinate in particular, is awesome. After I Myojin of Night's Reach'd everyones hand on turn 4 and got hated to 6 life, I casted Exsanguinate for 19 on a 5 person table. I then killed two people with a huge Consume Spirit and Profane Command. Unfortunately I lost when the Teneb player cast Living Death with 80% of his library in his graveyard.
1. Don't forget about Bloodchief Ascension. This card is the real deal. Remember that in order to get the counters...you don't have to cause this lifeloss. It just has to happen. It is just as devastating as It That Betrays.
2a. Exsanguinate is simply not fair. From my understanding...this why Kokusho, the Evening Star got banned. They said that his life swing was to great...and then they give us this gem? I think now more than ever it should be unbanned.
2b. Always Always Always hold a removal spell. There are 11 sweepers in the deck...7 of them could take care of this situation immediately. This goes back to waiting for the right moment. If you don't have an answer to a "counterattack"...then it isn't the right time to strike.
Things that I have trouble with (any help would be appreciated):
1.) Planeswalkers. Ugh they are not fun to deal with, especially when a friend of mine has a 5 color planeswalker/proliferate deck.
2.) Counterspells. I can only Imp's Mischief so many times. I face a lot of blue so I will probably be adding Boseiju, Who Shelters All which will help a lot.
3.) I realize this deck has very little graveyard recursion which can be problematic if games go long.
4.) Deciding what to do. This deck makes a lot of decisions. I often find myself with a Demonic Tutor in my opening hand and no idea what to find with it. I also have trouble determining what to answer and when to start laying down permanents which can be destroyed with my own sweepers. This is especially troublesome with Bloodchief Ascension which takes time to get online.
2. If you are the one getting countered...then I think your problem is timing. For starters...if you have a legitimate reason for casting a spell...such as Damnation because of a threat...perhaps you should note this to the other players at the table. If the Blue player counters your spells...then he is open to someone elses. You aren't going to be able to power through both counterspells and a table full of people. You need to finesse your way through the deck. Sit back...keep your options open and only expend resources when absolutely needed. If you are trying to "combo out" while another player has both resources and mana available...you are going to get shut down every time. Like I said...if you are getting "picked on" with Counterspells...make your intentions known to the table. Express to them that you can help the problem at hand. Diplomacy is a huge weapon in Multiplayer...use it. Or...you could just bait your opponent. Give them a good spell to counter...and then play what you had originally wanted.
Bloodchief ascension is tricky to hold as every player will be gunning for you as they won't attack each other trigger the life loss. I've tried this in MP constructed decks filled with life loss and discard and it never stuck around long enough to activate.
- One of my opponents played Keldon Twilight and I nearly jumped out of my seat.
- During my turn I happily sacrificed my Solemn Simulacrum to draw a card.
- Then during each end step of the opponent before me I made a Solemn Simulacrum with my Mimic Vat. This allowed me to both ramp my mana and sacrifice Solemn Simulacrum to draw a card on each of my turns. Because of this I had a hand full of cards and a board full of lands.
- I had played an Oblivion Stone and all my permanents had a fate counter on them. This kept the board clear of danger. I also decided to keep a few other random permanents protected to keep people happy.
- In retaliation he killed my Duplicant...which was a huge mistake. I removed it with my Mimic Vat.
- Eventually people started to see the problem which my board presented.
- I played a Scroll Rack with 3 fetchlands on the board.
- I was looking for the strongest player at the table...and I realized it was the guy sitting next to me playing Scion of the Ur-Dragon. I looked to make a pact. He said that he could produce lethal damage to all 4 other opponents if I would not break my Oblivion Stone. He also showed me Living Death...should I try to betray him.
- Thanks to Crucible of Fire and 2 Coat of Arms on the table...from 2 other sources...his 16 dragons were very clearly lethal. As he tapped them all everyone looked to me for protection...I gave none. By him attacking he essentially gave me the game...even though he didn't know it. I will get to that in a minute.
- Every scooped up their cards after someone feigned the idea that they had Safe Passage. I almost had a heart attack when he joke about having it. But he didn't.
- Without a creature on the board I told him that I have lethal. I had Sorin Markov and Corrupt in hand with 10 Snow-Covered Swamps in play. But I was looking for the EPIC win. Thanks to my mana multipliers I had 20+ mana. I had 3 tutors in hand so...I had access to whatever combo I wanted.
- In the end I decided that the Sorin Markov + Corrupt route was the safest and quickest...so I did that and won.
I guess the acension can stand on its own since it gives you life. but I just never think black is that ahead that it can pull off the death cloud/Pox.
I haven't cut these yet because Its all I've known for a while now lol. Maybe I'm just using them wrong. I would probably suggest cutting ravenous trap. You have lots of graveyard hate as it is. I don't think losing Trap will hurt the deck much. Well its only a suggestion if you're serious about putting in Geth.
I just got that combo off last night, and back to back. Pox, next turn, Death Cloud, won the game.
Looking at Geth, I agree a graveyard hate card is the cut to make happen. We Have Nezumi Graverobber, Withered Wretch, Ravenous Trap, Suffer the Past, and Bojuka Bog
Graverobber can bring back creatures, eventually. Wretch fuels Graveborn Muse. Ravenous Trap can be free, key word is can. Suffer the Past is another Drain. Bojuka Bog is a land, awesome.
I agree with the cut of Ravenous Trap for Geth.
One-Eyed Black | Orzhov Combo | Ooze Reanimator | Mindwheeling Pain
I've might of said it is good, but it is fun and cute as you said. With Exsanguinate coming out, I can see cutting Bloodchief Ascension.
So I'm not putting a full updated deck list, but changes for Post-Scars include
In: Exsanguinate. Out: Bloodchief Ascension
In: Geth, Lord of the Vault. Out: Ravenous Trap
In: Steel Hellkite. Out: Sign in Blood
How have these worked for you. You mentioned they won you back to back games. How was the board set up. No blue players? :pp
I like Exsanguinate a lot. I'll have to make room for it myself. ^^;
Yes, I do believe I will still get the full benefits from Pox and Death Cloud, once Ascension is gone.
It wasn't back to back games, I won a game by casting Pox, then the next turn Death Cloud, and the blue player was already dead.
As for the rest of the cards in this set...I think this deck needs to be "scrapped" and start fresh. This picking and choosing what to replace isn't doing the deck any justice.
The first thing that needs to happen is...this deck needs an identity. Is this deck going to be MBC, MBCombo, Hybrid, or Ramping Fatties?
Depending on the choice above...Ob Nixilis, the Fallen may not be the right general.
Personally I am sticking with MBC...which Ob Nixilis, the Fallen is perfect for. This means that the goal of my deck is to absolutely control the game and then pick off the weak one by one as the correct time presents itself. Bloodchief Ascension is just to powerful to drop. This combos so well with so much of this deck. This is a MBC Finisher if I have ever seen one.
Hopefully I will be able to put up my new creation soon. <--Don't expect anything drastically different from my other version but...there will be some subtle changes.
Have Crucible of Worlds in play, Float all your mana, Cast Death Cloud, Cast Ob Nixilis, the Fallen, and watch people cry.
Yes there are plenty of interactions with Death Cloud without Bloodchief Ascension. I still think it is a bad idea to remove it though.
[EDH] Ob Nixilis the Fallen
The bolded part is very true, I just haven't had time to actually do that, and well, with out the entire set being out, thus the picking and choosing.
I feel like the deck is MBControl/MBCombo. You've got big gaming spells, some beats for the finish, plenty of cards to answer your opponent's threats. Plus there is several card interactions that make some possible game winning combos. A big plus of this deck for me, is it's versatility.
When it comes to Bloodchief Ascension, I don't know. I rather have an answer than something that requires "What if's"
Like you said, and I agree with, this deck needs to be scrapped and started fresh.
Great primer btw :).
Ob Nixilis, the Fallen allows you to play him at your leasure...all the while building up "fetchlands" in play alongside Cruicible of Worlds. When you finally play him...someone dies. On multiple occasions I have had games that look like this:
1. Urborg Tomb of Yawgmoth, Cruicible of Worlds, Shizo, Death's Storehouse, and Lightning Greaves in play.
2. Over several turns stack your "fetchlands" in play.
3. Play Ob Nixilis, the Fallen, use Shizo, Death's Storehouse, and attach Lightning Greaves.
4. Pop all your "fetchlands" to kill someone.
5. Attack killing another person.
I can't tell you how often this method works. The best part about it is...this is a reactive strategy which a Control deck thrives on. As I have said multiple times in this thread...the reason this deck wins so consistantly for me is because I don't have to do anything. I have the ability to control the game for as long as I need.
To answer your question, Ob Nixilis, the Fallen fits perfectly with both my playstyle and with the deck. Try it out and you will see. Just a side note...I usually don't play him until turn 15 or 16. <--Serious.
So...who else has enjoyed Tolarian Academy and Staff of Domination being banned?
[EDH] Ob Nixilis the Fallen
Small post, at work on the mobile Internet, just saw Nim Deathmantle on the spoiler, and I was thinking this card might be more versatile than Loxodon Warhammer. Helps fuel Graveborn Muse, evasion, and has some recursion. Not to shabby. Thoughts???
[EDH] Ob Nixilis the Fallen
1 Ob Nixilis, the Fallen
Lands: 37
16 Snow-Covered Swamp
1 Bloodstained Mire
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Cabal Coffers
1 Dark Depths
1 Deserted Temple
1 Esper Panorama
1 Ghost Quarter
1 Grixis Panorama
1 Jund Panorama
1 Marsh Flats
1 Maze of Ith
1 Mystifying Maze
1 Polluted Delta
1 Reliquary Tower
1 Shizo, Death's Storehouse
1 Strip Mine
1 Thawing Glaciers
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1 Verdant Catacombs
1 Vesuva
1 Wasteland
Mana Accel: 9
1 Extraplanar Lens
1 Gauntlet of Power
1 Grim Monolith
1 Magus of the Coffers
1 Mana Vault
1 Mox Diamond
1 Nirkana Revenant
1 Solemn Simulacrum
1 Sol Ring
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Diabolic Tutor
1 Graveborn Muse
1 Imperial Seal
1 Necropotence
1 Phyrexian Arena
1 Promise of Power
1 Scroll Rack
1 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Sign in Blood
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Yawgmoth's Will
Board Sweepers: 11
1 All is Dust
1 Bane of the Living
1 Barter in Blood
1 Damnation
1 Death Cloud
1 Decree of Pain
1 Mutilate
1 Nevinyrral's Disk
1 Oblivion Stone
1 Pox
1 Steel Hellkite
Other Creatures: 9
1 Duplicant
1 Geth, Lord of the Vault
1 Grave Titan
1 It that Betrays
1 Nezumi Graverobber
1 Sundering Titan
1 Vampire Hexmage
1 Withered Wretch
1 Xiahou Dun, the One-Eyed
1 Crucible of Worlds
1 Darksteel Forge
1 Expedition Map
1 Icy Manipulator
1 Lightning Greaves
1 Mimic Vat
1 Rings of Brighthearth
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Whispersilk Cloak
Other Spells: 10
1 Beacon of Unrest
1 Bloodchief Ascension
1 Consume Spirit
1 Corrupt
1 Diabolic Edict
1 Exsanguinate
1 Imp's Mischief
1 Profane Command
1 Suffer the Past
1 Tendrils of Corruption
Planeswalkers: 2
1 Lilliana Vess
1 Sorin Markov
1 Ambition's Cost - Promise of Power is simply superior to this.
1 Drain Life - Strictly worse than it's much younger brother Consume Spirit...Exsanguinate is a better card in this deck...even though it can't kill creatures.
1 Myojin of Night's Reach - The thought of this guy is amazing...but he just never really brings the beef. Often times I find this going to the top with Scroll Rack.
1 Planar Portal - This card is very clunky for me. It eats a turn coming out, eats a turn to search, all to get a Demonic Tutor. eh...
1 Ravenous Trap - Easily the least needed graveyard hate spell in the deck.
1 Promise of Power - By taking out a card that only drew cards and replacing it with a versatile card that can double as a win condition...I have increased my threat capability. This seems like an obvious inclusion.
1 Geth, Lord of the Vault - It is ashame that this can only target opponent's but...this seems amazing in EDH. He has a big body with evasion to top things off.
1 It that Betrays - This is a card that I have been meaning to find room for. It is amazing with this deck. I can't wait to play Pox and watch people cry.
1 Mimic Vat - I glazed over this at first...and then I realized that this doesn't have to be your creatures...and it is a may ability. This seems really strong.
1 Steel Hellkite - It is kind of like a reusable Powder Keg that beats face.
Overall I was a bit disappointed with myself. I expected to cut a lot more than I did. A lot of the cuts came in earlier versions like adding in Mystifying Maze and Grave Titan...but this deck is very tight. Black has so many good cards...and Artifacts work so well with Black that it is hard to deviate from the core of this deck.
For those who are still obsessed with Ring's of Brighthearth...I considered cutting Beacon of Unrest for it...but ultimately decided not to. If I were to make a cut thought...that would be it.
Let me know what you think. All comments are welcomed.
[EDH] Ob Nixilis the Fallen
How has the deck been playing out for you?
[EDH] Ob Nixilis the Fallen
I haven't had the chance to play some games as of late, I'll post findings next week, as well as a new deck list
On the mobile phone again, post deck list within the next few days, but I agree, Mimic Vat is freaking nuts. I can't believe I missed that in the spoiler. Way powerful, and super abusable with some of the creatures this deck runs, Solemn Simulacrum, Sundering Titan, Xiahou Dun, the One Eyed, or Grave Titan. Also yanking other big threats is way good. Exsanguinate is like we all thought the best drain in the format.
I haven't had a chance to play Geth, Lord of the Vault or Steel Hellkite yet, but like we have talked about they fit the deck way to well.
I am excited with the changes this deck is going through and how well it is playing. Seriously way good and way fun. And as a hint ImAChampion's list and mine are very very similar, but slightly different.
[EDH] Ob Nixilis the Fallen
1 Ob Nixilis, the Fallen
Lands: 38
16 Snow-Covered Swamp
1 Bloodstained Mire
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Cabal Coffers
1 Dark Depths
1 Deserted Temple
1 Esper Panorama
1 Ghost Quarter
1 Grixis Panorama
1 Jund Panorama
1 Lake of the Dead
1 Marsh Flats
1 Maze of Ith
1 Mystifying Maze
1 Polluted Delta
1 Reliquary Tower
1 Shizo, Death's Storehouse
1 Strip Mine
1 Thawing Glaciers
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1 Verdant Catacombs
1 Vesuva
1 Wasteland
Mana Accel: 9
1 Extraplanar Lens
1 Gauntlet of Power
1 Grim Monolith
1 Magus of the Coffers
1 Mana Vault
1 Mox Diamond
1 Nirkana Revenant
1 Solemn Simulacrum
1 Sol Ring
1 Ambition's Cost
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Diabolic Tutor
1 Graveborn Muse
1 Necropotence
1 Phyrexian Arena
1 Scroll Rack
1 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Sign in Blood
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Yawgmoth's Will
Board Sweepers: 11
1 All is Dust
1 Bane of the Living
1 Barter in Blood
1 Damnation
1 Death Cloud
1 Decree of Pain
1 Mutilate
1 Nevinyrral's Disk
1 Oblivion Stone
1 Pox
1 Steel Hellkite
Other Creatures: 10
1 Drana, Kalastria Bloodchief
1 Duplicant
1 Geth, Lord of the Vault
1 Grave Titan
1 It that Betrays
1 Nezumi Graverobber
1 Sundering Titan
1 Vampire Hexmage
1 Withered Wretch
1 Xiahou Dun, the One-Eyed
1 Crucible of Worlds
1 Expedition Map
1 Icy Manipulator
1 Lightning Greaves
1 Mimic Vat
1 Rings of Brighthearth
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Whispersilk Cloak
Other Spells: 10
1 Beacon of Unrest
1 Bloodchief Ascension
1 Consume Spirit
1 Corrupt
1 Diabolic Edict
1 Exsanguinate
1 Imp's Mischief
1 Profane Command
1 Suffer the Past
1 Tendrils of Corruption
Planeswalkers: 2
1 Lilliana Vess
1 Sorin Markov
Our lists differ by only two cards
1 Imperial Seal
1 Drana, Kalastria Bloodchief
So lets compare, (keep in my this is all my opinion about the following cards)
Terramorphic Expanse, I feel this card isn't needed at this point. The deck runs sixteen basic lands, and has eight (my list at least) different fetchlands in it. Exactly half the amount of basic we are running.
Rings of Brighthearth, we have discussed this in the thread several times. Different strokes for different folks.
Imperial Seal, I'd play it if I owned one or could afford it. Plain and simple lol.
Drana, Kalastria Bloodchief, Like I said, I'd play Imperial Seal, if I had one, but I don't. So Drana is currently in the deck, because Gaddock Teeg is running wild currently in my playgroup/meta.
Umezawa's Jitte has found it's way back into the deck,I feel it is no longer just a fancy, focused, disenchant. With Exsanguinate now in the deck, Loxodon Warhammer isn't needed anymore. Another reason for Jitte's return, is it helps against Gaddock Teeg
I'm playing the deck tonight, probably for every game I play with my playgroup, I'll post findings about it this week, as well as update the first page of the primer.
A couple days ago I had a huge write up of several games that I played...but when I Submitted the post...MTGSalvation had a 404 error...and I lost everything. Lesson...use a Word Program or "Ctr+C" often.
The gist of my favorite game went like this.
Opening Hand: Multiple Sweepers, 3 Lands, 1 Exsanguinate
Turns 1-10: Lands + keeping the board clean.
Opponent's Turn 11: Pops Nevinyrral's Disk. It's time to strike.
Turn 11 Board Position: Cabal Coffers + Vesuva + Deserted Temple + Urborg Tomb of Yawgmoth + 7 Snow-Covered Swamps
Turn 11: Use everything to float 34 B. I cast Exsanguinate for 32 killing 5 people. I didn't bother to count the life gained. This left me with only a Karn player...without anything in play.
Turn 12: Lightning Greaves + Ob Nixilis, the Fallen + Cruicible of Worlds
I played a fetchland from the graveyard and showed him Corrupt. If he could have survived the 6 damage from the lands & the 9 damage from Ob Nixilis, the Fallen...I had another 12 damage coming his way.
Anyway, This was my favorite win of the night. I had it considerably more detailed the other day but...well...you get the picture. I look forward to your write up.
So...has anyone besides myself and Tom been causing Mayham with this deck?
[EDH] Ob Nixilis the Fallen
Well i'm playing Korlash as my general atm. Our decklists aren't to far away from each other. I don't like playing cards that people don't like though, Death Cloud, Pox and Sorin Markov etc. I'm also playing less Lifegain. However i'm playing a lot more creatures.
So far, cards i've been unsatisfied with:
Imp's Mischief - I think this card is amazing, it just does not fit in our playgroup. There's not much Mind Twist, Mind Sludge or targeted draw in our playgroup. However it's one of the cards i like alot.
Lets see from Tom Servos list; the cards i'm not running:
- Swamp
- Grim Monolith
- Mox Diamond
- Mana Vault
- Magus of the Coffers
- Ambition's Cost
- Scroll Rack (don't have one)
- Sensei's Divining Top (don't have one)
- Tendrils of Corruption
- Sorin Markov
- Diabolic Edict
- Bloodchief Ascension
- Corrupt
- Mimic Vat (don't have one)
- Sundering Titan
- It That Betrays
- Crucible of Worlds
- Rings of Brightheart
- Whispersilk Cloak
- Icy Manipulator
- Pox
- Nevin's Disk
- Vampire Hexmage
- Death Cloud
- Bane of the Living
- Barter in Blood
- Ob Nixilis
+ Avatar of Woe
+ Reiver Demon
+ Skeletal Scrying
+ Chill to the Bone
+ Crystal Ball
+ Promise of Power
+ Consuming Vapors
+ Dread
+ Phyrexian Reclamation
+ Nezumi Graverobber
+ Nightmare Lash
+ Armillary Sphere
+ Night's Whisper
+ Syphon Mind
+ Crypt Rats
+ Necrotic Ooze
+ Ink-Eyes Servant of the Ooni
+ Chainer Dementia Master
+ Shriekmaw
+ Fleshbag Marauder
+ Animate Dead
+ Necromancy
+ Faceless Butcher
+ Maga Traitor of Mortals
+ Kagemaro, First to Suffer
+ Sudden Death
+ Gilded Lotus
+ Corpse Dance
+ Enslave
I'm playing a lot more creatures and playing a lot more recursion than you guys do. It's kinda like a control deck, but i'm playing a lot more aggro. Besides if you don't play alot of creatures in my meta you will be hit alot. If you play mass discard or mass land destruction you will get hit. Besides i hate Sundering Titan xP. So that's why i'm not using those kind of cards
The deck does quite well though and it's quite powerfull :), i definitely have a good time but i still get targeted a lot ^^,.
Things that I love:
1.) Death Cloud or Pox or All is Dust and It That Betrays. Even if you don't have It That Betrays in play, the deck's ability to recover after a huge Death Cloud is fantastic.
2.) Extraplanar Lens and Gauntlet of Power with X spells, Exsanguinate in particular, is awesome. After I Myojin of Night's Reach'd everyones hand on turn 4 and got hated to 6 life, I casted Exsanguinate for 19 on a 5 person table. I then killed two people with a huge Consume Spirit and Profane Command. Unfortunately I lost when the Teneb player cast Living Death with 80% of his library in his graveyard.
Things that I have trouble with (any help would be appreciated):
1.) Planeswalkers. Ugh they are not fun to deal with, especially when a friend of mine has a 5 color planeswalker/proliferate deck.
2.) Counterspells. I can only Imp's Mischief so many times. I face a lot of blue so I will probably be adding Boseiju, Who Shelters All which will help a lot.
3.) I realize this deck has very little graveyard recursion which can be problematic if games go long.
4.) Deciding what to do. This deck makes a lot of decisions. I often find myself with a Demonic Tutor in my opening hand and no idea what to find with it. I also have trouble determining what to answer and when to start laying down permanents which can be destroyed with my own sweepers. This is especially troublesome with Bloodchief Ascension which takes time to get online.
That is all I have for now, got to run to do some homework. Ill continue to post my findings as I play the deck.
Edit: I may also put in Sadistic Sacrament or Jester's Cap to deal with all the combo I play against.
1. Don't forget about Bloodchief Ascension. This card is the real deal. Remember that in order to get the counters...you don't have to cause this lifeloss. It just has to happen. It is just as devastating as It That Betrays.
2a. Exsanguinate is simply not fair. From my understanding...this why Kokusho, the Evening Star got banned. They said that his life swing was to great...and then they give us this gem? I think now more than ever it should be unbanned.
2b. Always Always Always hold a removal spell. There are 11 sweepers in the deck...7 of them could take care of this situation immediately. This goes back to waiting for the right moment. If you don't have an answer to a "counterattack"...then it isn't the right time to strike.
1. Tutor up Consume Spirit, Profane Command, Corrupt, Vampire Hexmage, Oblivion Stone, or All is Dust. All of these can take care of Planeswalkers. I know they can be rough to play against...but we have plenty of answers to them.
2. If you are the one getting countered...then I think your problem is timing. For starters...if you have a legitimate reason for casting a spell...such as Damnation because of a threat...perhaps you should note this to the other players at the table. If the Blue player counters your spells...then he is open to someone elses. You aren't going to be able to power through both counterspells and a table full of people. You need to finesse your way through the deck. Sit back...keep your options open and only expend resources when absolutely needed. If you are trying to "combo out" while another player has both resources and mana available...you are going to get shut down every time. Like I said...if you are getting "picked on" with Counterspells...make your intentions known to the table. Express to them that you can help the problem at hand. Diplomacy is a huge weapon in Multiplayer...use it. Or...you could just bait your opponent. Give them a good spell to counter...and then play what you had originally wanted.
3. What exactly are you wanting to recur? Xiahou Dun, the One-Eyed, Yawgmoth's Will, Nezumi Graverobber, and Beacon of Unrest should be more than enough. The only thing that I feel I must have back if it dies is Crucible of Worlds. I don't know that I have ever lost a game if this stays in play.
4. This decision is something that all Control players face. There is no right or wrong answer here. Personally I always look for these cards: Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth, Cabal Coffers, Scroll Rack, Crucible of Worlds, Sensei's Divining Top, and Lightning Greaves. Obviously if a situation should arise where you need a mass removal spell...Decree of Pain is my go to guy.
I look forward to hearing what you come up with. Have fun tormenting other EDH players.
[EDH] Ob Nixilis the Fallen
With the new way this forum is being organized...this deck seems to have fallen back a few pages rather rapidly.
[EDH] Ob Nixilis the Fallen
- I played a turn 2 Mimic Vat followed by a turn 3 Solemn Simulacrum.
- One of my opponents played Keldon Twilight and I nearly jumped out of my seat.
- During my turn I happily sacrificed my Solemn Simulacrum to draw a card.
- Then during each end step of the opponent before me I made a Solemn Simulacrum with my Mimic Vat. This allowed me to both ramp my mana and sacrifice Solemn Simulacrum to draw a card on each of my turns. Because of this I had a hand full of cards and a board full of lands.
- I had played an Oblivion Stone and all my permanents had a fate counter on them. This kept the board clear of danger. I also decided to keep a few other random permanents protected to keep people happy.
- I played Duplicant removing someone's general, Kresh the Bloodbraided, from play who was benefiting from my Solemn Simulacrum dying each turn.
- In retaliation he killed my Duplicant...which was a huge mistake. I removed it with my Mimic Vat.
- Eventually people started to see the problem which my board presented.
- I played a Scroll Rack with 3 fetchlands on the board.
- I was looking for the strongest player at the table...and I realized it was the guy sitting next to me playing Scion of the Ur-Dragon. I looked to make a pact. He said that he could produce lethal damage to all 4 other opponents if I would not break my Oblivion Stone. He also showed me Living Death...should I try to betray him.
- Thanks to Crucible of Fire and 2 Coat of Arms on the table...from 2 other sources...his 16 dragons were very clearly lethal. As he tapped them all everyone looked to me for protection...I gave none. By him attacking he essentially gave me the game...even though he didn't know it. I will get to that in a minute.
- Every scooped up their cards after someone feigned the idea that they had Safe Passage. I almost had a heart attack when he joke about having it. But he didn't.
- Without a creature on the board I told him that I have lethal. I had Sorin Markov and Corrupt in hand with 10 Snow-Covered Swamps in play. But I was looking for the EPIC win. Thanks to my mana multipliers I had 20+ mana. I had 3 tutors in hand so...I had access to whatever combo I wanted.
- In the end I decided that the Sorin Markov + Corrupt route was the safest and quickest...so I did that and won.
The entire game I held onto Strip Mine & Cabal Coffers. There was a Dust Bowl on the board and I was going to use my Strip Mine to take it out...when someone dropped another Strip Mine. Either way I had Extraplanar Lens, Nirkana Revanent, and Gauntlet of Power in play. I also had lethal Exanguinate for about 5 turns...but chose not to go that route.
I honestly believe that this deck is a monster. Barring massive amounts of Artifact removal...this deck can win in almost any environment.
[EDH] Ob Nixilis the Fallen