I wouldn't say that drawing both is a bad thing, particularly if you need to use Damia to dig through your deck. Being able to vomit lands onto the field goes a long way when her ability triggers at upkeep.
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Epochalyptik from http://tappedout.net/ EDH isn't about what you play, it's about who you play with.
Yea maybe not but my 1 drops ate solid I'm in no hurry to add that card and I doubt I ever will. As far as Damia goes I win like 80% of the time I untap with her but I rarley drop her as I hit 7 mana
I use her as a utility creature, which is what she was designed for. There are times when I've had to use her for several turns to burn through my topdeck until I hit a tutor. It's pretty rare, but it can happen.
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Epochalyptik from http://tappedout.net/ EDH isn't about what you play, it's about who you play with.
Seems irrelevant how many games have you untapped with Damia more than once and lost? For me that's like never most times people don't even get another turn after the first untap. I play her sparingly as at 9 she's steep and playing her to early us normally a mistake it says to the table "ok I'm ready to win now please kill Damia". You need to be able to cast her at 7 after the **** hits the fan so she can save your ass. Also on the subject I know temporal manipulation isn't the 10$ it was when I got mine but I'd run all 3 if I had them. Do you and DD think one is correct or just don't want to buy temporal ?
Edit; wow I don't even see tune warp in yours wtf!
Seems irrelevant how many games have you untapped with Damia more than once and lost? For me that's like never most times people don't even get another turn after the first untap. I play her sparingly as at 9 she's steep and playing her to early us normally a mistake it says to the table "ok I'm ready to win now please kill Damia". You need to be able to cast her at 7 after the **** hits the fan so she can save your ass. Also on the subject I know temporal manipulation isn't the 10$ it was when I got mine but I'd run all 3 if I had them. Do you and DD think one is correct or just don't want to buy temporal ?
Edit; wow I don't even see tune warp in yours wtf!
The only extra turn spell either of us play is Time Stretch. The others (the ones that give you only one extra turn) are mediocre. They're harder to abuse because to recur them infinitely, you need to spend virtually everything in that extra turn to bring back and cast the walk spell again. Time Stretch just gives you more leeway. Plus it's not like you're going to be going infinite until later on anyway, so the mana cost isn't a problem.
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Epochalyptik from http://tappedout.net/ EDH isn't about what you play, it's about who you play with.
Have you ever tested them they are some of the best cards in the list. not only is it easier to go infinte with them since it takes 9 mana and can be done more than one way but they are just bonkers good. At worst they are a 0 mana explore they chain you into your win cons turns early and if you squeeze in any card on a warp turn the card was essentially free. I Have used them in my list for 4 years They are the best 5 drops in the deck. With damia they are another out for I Win. Warping whit Damia is silly warping without her is still NEVER bad. Stretch ends games it doesnt even really fill the same purpose its more of a back up tooth and nail and gaurentees a kill. I cant ell you how many times ive chained warp 2-3 times on turn 4-5 and then won before anyone gets a chance to respond on MTGO i play capture as well and i can tell a difference it makes the deck better and with all the time ive played them i don't think there is any argument you could make to change my mind honestly but now it makes mroe sense why you guys like yawg win over restock. They are just good i know slots are tight but i would NEVER cut either of them from my list for any reason in fact if they banned tooth and nail today i would spend the $ on a capture and my deck would pilot the same way. It alos now make sense why you guys dont like replication as a wincon the time cards are so vital to my build i cant recommend them enough. People on mtgo figured out they are so strong that when you see a bug player cast one they normally just quit right there.
Edit: also in testing multiple the mroe you sue the better each individual card gets so 2>1 3>2 if it matters im honestly shocked i don't see even the warp i dont know who i never noticed before
I don't really see the value of running 5-drop Explores over something like a counterspell. I would rather stick to the heavier control than have spells that will only be conditionally great.
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Epochalyptik from http://tappedout.net/ EDH isn't about what you play, it's about who you play with.
Actually Time Warp and it's ilk are all extremely good and I've been thinking about them myself. I've actually been liking the idea of Warp over Stretch. But at that point they serve the same function and I (for some reason) like Stretch better. The reason I like Yawgwin so much is that if someone sweeps all my mana rocks I can recast them all in one big turn and also recasting tutors for the same mana as it cost to play Restock is always good. Being able to cast permanents with it is just incredible value. I wouldn't pay for Capture or Temporal for this list though as they are not essential.
I understand your points but I disagree 100% the warp effects turn t6-7 wins into turn 4-5 wins I always want to draw them I'd never cut them I've tested then online literally thousands of times no exaggeration I've used the war effects 4 years they are good here. Intact there are many games I have no need to even go for tooth or stretch because I can start warping and just go get e witnes and win. They are also more important in my build becuae I run replication instead of stroke or bsz. and they set up stretch and tooth if you resolve tooth jr stretch you win the accelerate your win con midgame the same way sol ring does early game but at the cost of no cards and with necro or Damia etc they bets you cards if you cast behind them it's broken. We already run the best counter why would you want another counter over them is silly to me. I can't tell you how many games I've cart something like limduks vault and been like ok need to find a time warp to cheat ahead one turn and I win now. All I can say is test them then tell me I'm wrong but don't cut stretch for warp it's not the same thing at all.
Edit : there is a reason capture of jingzhou went from 20$ to 250$ with the rise in popularity if edh it's no accident the cards are ****ing good.
Double edit @death diamond- i have not once missed yawg win and I've needed restock why ? I play 2 warps and they are better than mana rocks I might lose. Never missed it at all the mans I would have to have to make proper use of it is mana barrier anyway it's a great card but it's not better than restock in my current build no way no how
I understand your points but I disagree 100% the warp effects turn t6-7 wins into turn 4-5 wins I always want to draw them I'd never cut them I've tested then online literally thousands of times no exaggeration I've used the war effects 4 years they are good here. Intact there are many games I have no need to even go for tooth or stretch because I can start warping and just go get e witnes and win. They are also more important in my build becuae I run replication instead of stroke or bsz. and they set up stretch and tooth if you resolve tooth jr stretch you win the accelerate your win con midgame the same way sol ring does early game but at the cost of no cards and with necro or Damia etc they bets you cards if you cast behind them it's broken. We already run the best counter why would you want another counter over them is silly to me. I can't tell you how many games I've cart something like limduks vault and been like ok need to find a time warp to cheat ahead one turn and I win now. All I can say is test them then tell me I'm wrong but don't cut stretch for warp it's not the same thing at all.
Edit : there is a reason capture of jingzhou went from 20$ to 250$ with the rise in popularity if edh it's no accident the cards are ****ing good.
Double edit @death diamond- i have not once missed yawg win and I've needed restock why ? I play 2 warps and they are better than mana rocks I might lose. Never missed it at all the mans I would have to have to make proper use of it is mana barrier anyway it's a great card but it's not better than restock in my current build no way no how
Capture of Jingzhou jumped in price because it's a rare from a set with an extremely limited print run and is incredibly hard to find. You'll notice that Time Warp is still only $5.
I just don't see 5-drop walk effects as being useful enough to warrant inclusion. They're more limited and expensive than counterspells and they aren't a guarantee that you'll even get anywhere. I'm not sure what I would even drop to test them.
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Epochalyptik from http://tappedout.net/ EDH isn't about what you play, it's about who you play with.
Yes that's why it's 250 but that's not the only reason who do you think wants those edh players. Cut any unnessary card a draw a counter a removal a control card a weak ramp if your deck just to test one. The cards are so good that on mtgo where I use imperial seal I also use capture of jingzhou and Grimm tutor and I can't even begin to tell you how much more broken our decks running 2 more tutors and 3 warps. I litteraly start chain extra turns turn 4 and no one gets to play again even if they do I'm at 11 mana with Damia Online and counters in hand.
Yes that's why it's 250 but that's not the only reason who do you think wants those edh players. Cut any unnessary card a draw a counter a removal a control card a weak ramp if your deck just to test one. The cards are so good that on mtgo where I use imperial seal I also use capture of jingzhou and Grimm tutor and I can't even begin to tell you how much more broken our decks running 2 more tutors and 3 warps. I litteraly start chain extra turns turn 4 and no one gets to play again even if they do I'm at 11 mana with Damia Online and counters in hand.
Given the functional reprints, it pretty much is the only reason. Redundancy is the only incentive to run all of them and even then, there's a very small market for the card.
There aren't any cards in the deck I would consider unnecessary. I might swap Mindbreak Trap for one just to see if it's worth including, but beyond that there aren't any "easy" cuts. I'm not going to start dropping necessary cards to test something I'm not altogether impressed with.
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Epochalyptik from http://tappedout.net/ EDH isn't about what you play, it's about who you play with.
I wouldn't recomended it unless it was good let alone run it. Wasn't it you whi said so what test it the worst thing that can happen Is you lose a game. It's good test it.
Fair. I generally don't progress to the playtesting stage for a card until I am reasonably convinced that it will be worth the inclusion, but I will see how it works.
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Epochalyptik from http://tappedout.net/ EDH isn't about what you play, it's about who you play with.
For those interested, I have another thread for this deck on a different website here.
The decklist is sortable, so it's easy to read (it's an alternative to the static lists here) and there are some charts off to the side that may help as well. DD, you should find this useful.
Comment #44 is a real gem.
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Epochalyptik from http://tappedout.net/ EDH isn't about what you play, it's about who you play with.
I spent some time editing the original post and I'd like some feedback on how it looks and reads. I'm trying to get an official primer tag for this deck and improving the layout and information is the way to do that.
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Epochalyptik from http://tappedout.net/ EDH isn't about what you play, it's about who you play with.
Overall it looks like it's ready to be Primed however, if this is a primer for all BUG control/combo decks then you need to address all possible inclusions like Necropotence (which should be in this deck btw), Burgeoning, and Mana Vault are the few that I can think of that you left out.
I don't particularly care for Necropotence in this deck. While it's good, the triple black cost forces me to find three black lands early on rather than balancing minor access to black with a heavier emphasis on early green and blue for ramp and control, respectively. I'm open to persuasion about it, but that's my current stance.
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Epochalyptik from http://tappedout.net/ EDH isn't about what you play, it's about who you play with.
I have never fielded a Necropotence and lost. In the games I get it on t2 or t3 I usually win 3 to 4 turns later. It's the most busted draw engine and possibly the most busted card in the entire format.
Abrupt Decay is a good card but I'm wondering if the CMC 3 or less restriction makes it less useful than Maelstrom Pulse (which can kill multiple permanents and blow tokens out). On the other hand, it's cheaper to cast and always uncounterable.
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Epochalyptik from http://tappedout.net/ EDH isn't about what you play, it's about who you play with.
EDH isn't about what you play, it's about who you play with.
[EDH]
BUG Combo/Control:
BUG Dominus - Dreamcrusher Edition GUB
Damia http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=410191
DDFT Legacyhttp://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=505247
Domain Zoo http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?p=10212429#post10212429
EDH isn't about what you play, it's about who you play with.
[EDH]
BUG Combo/Control:
BUG Dominus - Dreamcrusher Edition GUB
Edit; wow I don't even see tune warp in yours wtf!
Damia http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=410191
DDFT Legacyhttp://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=505247
Domain Zoo http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?p=10212429#post10212429
The only extra turn spell either of us play is Time Stretch. The others (the ones that give you only one extra turn) are mediocre. They're harder to abuse because to recur them infinitely, you need to spend virtually everything in that extra turn to bring back and cast the walk spell again. Time Stretch just gives you more leeway. Plus it's not like you're going to be going infinite until later on anyway, so the mana cost isn't a problem.
EDH isn't about what you play, it's about who you play with.
[EDH]
BUG Combo/Control:
BUG Dominus - Dreamcrusher Edition GUB
Edit: also in testing multiple the mroe you sue the better each individual card gets so 2>1 3>2 if it matters im honestly shocked i don't see even the warp i dont know who i never noticed before
Damia http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=410191
DDFT Legacyhttp://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=505247
Domain Zoo http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?p=10212429#post10212429
EDH isn't about what you play, it's about who you play with.
[EDH]
BUG Combo/Control:
BUG Dominus - Dreamcrusher Edition GUB
Damia, Sage of Stone
Ertai, the Corrupted
Scion of the Ur-Dragon
Omnath, Locus of Mana
Edit : there is a reason capture of jingzhou went from 20$ to 250$ with the rise in popularity if edh it's no accident the cards are ****ing good.
Double edit @death diamond- i have not once missed yawg win and I've needed restock why ? I play 2 warps and they are better than mana rocks I might lose. Never missed it at all the mans I would have to have to make proper use of it is mana barrier anyway it's a great card but it's not better than restock in my current build no way no how
Damia http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=410191
DDFT Legacyhttp://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=505247
Domain Zoo http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?p=10212429#post10212429
Capture of Jingzhou jumped in price because it's a rare from a set with an extremely limited print run and is incredibly hard to find. You'll notice that Time Warp is still only $5.
I just don't see 5-drop walk effects as being useful enough to warrant inclusion. They're more limited and expensive than counterspells and they aren't a guarantee that you'll even get anywhere. I'm not sure what I would even drop to test them.
EDH isn't about what you play, it's about who you play with.
[EDH]
BUG Combo/Control:
BUG Dominus - Dreamcrusher Edition GUB
Damia http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=410191
DDFT Legacyhttp://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=505247
Domain Zoo http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?p=10212429#post10212429
Given the functional reprints, it pretty much is the only reason. Redundancy is the only incentive to run all of them and even then, there's a very small market for the card.
There aren't any cards in the deck I would consider unnecessary. I might swap Mindbreak Trap for one just to see if it's worth including, but beyond that there aren't any "easy" cuts. I'm not going to start dropping necessary cards to test something I'm not altogether impressed with.
EDH isn't about what you play, it's about who you play with.
[EDH]
BUG Combo/Control:
BUG Dominus - Dreamcrusher Edition GUB
Damia http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=410191
DDFT Legacyhttp://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=505247
Domain Zoo http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?p=10212429#post10212429
EDH isn't about what you play, it's about who you play with.
[EDH]
BUG Combo/Control:
BUG Dominus - Dreamcrusher Edition GUB
EDH isn't about what you play, it's about who you play with.
[EDH]
BUG Combo/Control:
BUG Dominus - Dreamcrusher Edition GUB
Damia, Sage of Stone
Ertai, the Corrupted
Scion of the Ur-Dragon
Omnath, Locus of Mana
The decklist is sortable, so it's easy to read (it's an alternative to the static lists here) and there are some charts off to the side that may help as well. DD, you should find this useful.
Comment #44 is a real gem.
EDH isn't about what you play, it's about who you play with.
[EDH]
BUG Combo/Control:
BUG Dominus - Dreamcrusher Edition GUB
Damia, Sage of Stone
Ertai, the Corrupted
Scion of the Ur-Dragon
Omnath, Locus of Mana
EDH isn't about what you play, it's about who you play with.
[EDH]
BUG Combo/Control:
BUG Dominus - Dreamcrusher Edition GUB
Damia, Sage of Stone
Ertai, the Corrupted
Scion of the Ur-Dragon
Omnath, Locus of Mana
Damia http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=410191
DDFT Legacyhttp://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=505247
Domain Zoo http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?p=10212429#post10212429
EDH isn't about what you play, it's about who you play with.
[EDH]
BUG Combo/Control:
BUG Dominus - Dreamcrusher Edition GUB
Damia, Sage of Stone
Ertai, the Corrupted
Scion of the Ur-Dragon
Omnath, Locus of Mana
EDH isn't about what you play, it's about who you play with.
[EDH]
BUG Combo/Control:
BUG Dominus - Dreamcrusher Edition GUB
Discussion on new cards:
EDH isn't about what you play, it's about who you play with.
[EDH]
BUG Combo/Control:
BUG Dominus - Dreamcrusher Edition GUB