Hey Linged! Thanks very much for your suggestions. You have some good points, however keep in mind that this deck is REALLY fast. I'm now winning games on turn 3 or 4 quite often. People can't keep up with that. It's why I'm not super paranoid about creatures. From experience I know I'd rather devote those card slots to cards that will help me win sooner. It comes down to efficiency. Where card advantage is king, efficiency is queen. I want the stuff I draw to castable in those first 3 or 4 turns.
So that's why I don't run a lot of what you mentioned, including Spell Crumple and Hinder. I will generally only use my counters to protect my own stuff and combat other control decks. I'd rather have the cheap or free counters for that purpose. I just don't have enough reason to be afraid of other people's decks. Maybe all the decks I play against suck?
Karn Liberated is great for obvious reasons. Colorless permanent removal. HOWEVER it comes back to that speed thing. He costs 7. By the time I have seven mana available, I generally don't need to be worried about the other player's boards. I have Chaos Warp and Devastation Tide to take care of permanents. Karn requires there to be permanents worth removing to be useful, just like any other removal, but costing 7 makes it really hit or miss.
Maze of Ith might actually go in. Generally, I try to cut down on my colorless land (doesn't even produce mana no less) but I could swap it for something like Academy Ruins which I never seem to use.
Misdirection seems really good. I've definitely been looking at it.
All is Dust - similar reason to why I don't run Karn. It costs 7 :/ HOWEVER I would prefer this over Karn any day because it kills everything, and like you said it would hurt me very little. I may try it out and see how I like it. It may swap out for Blasphemous Act. But not Evacuation or Devastation Tide (because of the combo I have with hand-cycling). Although Act can be very efficient (kill all critters for R) it can also leave a lot of nasty stuff behind - it's narrow in that way.
Stroke of Genius - has been in and out. I have more efficient ways of drawing cards... maybe not at instant speed, but I can't think of anything I'd want to swap it for.
As for the artifact land, I see your point. That could definitely be annoying. I guess the small benefit I would see from metalcraft doesn't really justify the risk of having them die to artifact removal (something I AM paranoid about).
Have you played with Past in Flames? I like the snapcaster utility it gives us, but I don't wonder if it costs too much to be "efficient" enough for the list you run. I ask because I'll probably run it in the budgeted version of Niv-Mizzet I'm want to run.
Also, think you'll use the alternate art foil version of Niv that's coming out in the duel decks later this year?
hey blueram! I was definitely considering Past in Flames but I haven't actually playtested it so I can't make any definitive judgements. My hunch is that you're right. 3R is a bit steep at sorcery speed. For a deck that wants to win quickly, I'll usually only be able to cast one or two spells with it (without Inner Fire to help me out). In comparison, Snapcaster Mage is just quicker, more efficient, and useable.
That being said, I still want to try it out and see what happens. I'll keep you posted. (Probably swap for Reverberate )
I just want to point out that you are missing a card. You are currently have 99 cards in the deck list including your general. you are running 34 lands not 35 as listed.
hey blueram! I was definitely considering Past in Flames but I haven't actually playtested it so I can't make any definitive judgements. My hunch is that you're right. 3R is a bit steep at sorcery speed. For a deck that wants to win quickly, I'll usually only be able to cast one or two spells with it (without Inner Fire to help me out). In comparison, Snapcaster Mage is just quicker, more efficient, and useable.
That being said, I still want to try it out and see what happens. I'll keep you posted. (Probably swap for Reverberate )
I also happened to come across Mystic Retrieval. Cheaper to flash back than Past in Flames, and lets the player choose when it wants to cast the card it retrieves. I definitely like it as a budget option.
Hey Rowan, I like the deck alot, one of the best Niv-Mizzet decks out there. One question though, is Final Fortune any good? Just wondering because it seems fun, but does the drawback keep you from casting it often?
Hey everyone! Thanks for the suggestions and comments. I've been AFK
@MaelstromX: thanks for catching that, I'll fix it.
@Maximum_Intelligence: glad you like the deck. Final Fortune is boss. I love cards that have severe drawbacks if you don't play them in the right way but are very cheap. Mainly it allows me a bit of a buffer if can't kill everyone that turn or just a way out of a boring game!
Wanted to say thanks for this thread; it's given me some great ideas on what to do for my own Niv Mizzet deck. I've been easing into it slowly (due more to skepticism than anything), and I've got to say that I'm pleasantly surprised by how much better the deck has gotten, just from a few small changes.
So kudos for all your work. I've found it very helpful!
this deck is heaps of fun! I ran it a few times and had a problem with decking myself more than a few times! i d like to recommend capture of jingzhou time warp, walk the aeons, spell book, and time reversal. the extra turns are easily redirected for 2-3 turns which is typically gg
@sjd0020: The extra turns ARE nice (I ran them for a while) but I found myself discarding them more often than using them. They aren't good early game and by late game I just don't need them to win.
I've got library of leng and reliquary tower so spellbook is a bit redundant for my purposes. It also doesn't do anything else or combo with anything like the above mentioned do.
Time reversal isn't TOO bad. I may switch things up again when I get back into the game. I've been hiatus for the summer.
p.s. ...............RETURN TO RAVNICA!!!!!! :OOOOOOOO <3<3<3 !!!!!
@sjd0020: The extra turns ARE nice (I ran them for a while) but I found myself discarding them more often than using them. They aren't good early game and by late game I just don't need them to win.
I've got library of leng and reliquary tower so spellbook is a bit redundant for my purposes. It also doesn't do anything else or combo with anything like the above mentioned do.
Time reversal isn't TOO bad. I may switch things up again when I get back into the game. I've been hiatus for the summer.
p.s. ...............RETURN TO RAVNICA!!!!!! :OOOOOOOO <3<3<3 !!!!!
So can we assume that Niv-Mizzet 2.0 is going to get a serious l lookin' at when he gets spoiled?
Made a few tentative swaps. Would like some feedback before modifying the primer.
-1 Blasphemous Act + 1 All is Dust - Removes pesky planeswalkers and enchantments where Act does not. All round great panic button. Pretty happy with it so far.
-1 Teferi, Mage of Zhalfir +1 Time Reversal - Teferi isn't typically needed (he costs a lot also and is really only useful to me late game and even then only against other control decks.
-1 Evacuation +1 Blue Sun's Zenith - Zenith has the nice advantage of being able to mill a player out in a pinch. With Sphinx in play I can also target another player for double the cards. It comes back to my philosophy about being able to win before creatures become a threat. Although I love Evac, I have Devastation Tide which does more for the same cost (and potentially cheaper).
The above swaps were more for consistency than anything. This deck NEEDS cards in hand. Cast rates for Teferi and Evacuation were relatively low.
-1 Reverberate + 1 Past in Flames - just wanted to try this one out for a while. So far I like it, but I miss the instant utility of reverb.
I'm rethinking the "Draw X cards" type of raw draw for the following reasons:
1. Although it rarely occurs, this deck really hates to be holding onto a 1 or 2 card hand. It makes Niv a very sad dragon wizard. Having cards in hand is so important to this deck's win conditions that I just don't want to risk it.
2. With a large handsize it rarely matters what threats are currently out since I tend to have the answers to them in my hand. Where removal is situational, card advantage is never.
3. The X is a good mana sink for my armada of artifact ramp late game.
4. They are usable both early and late game.
The other option is to add more tutors. Tutors are always great cards to have in hand. The transmute tutors might make a reappearance. Specifically Drift of Phantasms and Dizzy Spell
Other cards on the chopping block:
Thran Dynamo - less than ideal in terms of speed. wondering if there's anything more appropriate for the deck
Spiraling Embers - spot removal CAN be nice. It's fairly useful early game - devastating late game. But I can't help wondering if another card would better suit me (i.e. raw draw) .
Any other thoughts about anything are always welcome. I plan on revamping the primer soon to be a little more in depth and to clear up any inconsistencies that have cropped up through all the revisions.
Made a few tentative swaps. Would like some feedback before modifying the primer.
-1 Blasphemous Act + 1 All is Dust - Removes pesky planeswalkers and enchantments where Act does not. All round great panic button. Pretty happy with it so far.
-1 Teferi, Mage of Zhalfir +1 Time Reversal - Teferi isn't typically needed (he costs a lot also and is really only useful to me late game and even then only against other control decks.
-1 Evacuation +1 Blue Sun's Zenith - Zenith has the nice advantage of being able to mill a player out in a pinch. With Sphinx in play I can also target another player for double the cards. It comes back to my philosophy about being able to win before creatures become a threat. Although I love Evac, I have Devastation Tide which does more for the same cost (and potentially cheaper).
The above swaps were more for consistency than anything. This deck NEEDS cards in hand. Cast rates for Teferi and Evacuation were relatively low.
-1 Reverberate + 1 Past in Flames - just wanted to try this one out for a while. So far I like it, but I miss the instant utility of reverb.
I'm rethinking the "Draw X cards" type of raw draw for the following reasons:
1. Although it rarely occurs, this deck really hates to be holding onto a 1 or 2 card hand. It makes Niv a very sad dragon wizard. Having cards in hand is so important to this deck's win conditions that I just don't want to risk it.
2. With a large handsize it rarely matters what threats are currently out since I tend to have the answers to them in my hand. Where removal is situational, card advantage is never.
3. The X is a good mana sink for my armada of artifact ramp late game.
4. They are usable both early and late game.
The other option is to add more tutors. Tutors are always great cards to have in hand. The transmute tutors might make a reappearance. Specifically Drift of Phantasms and Dizzy Spell
Other cards on the chopping block:
Thran Dynamo - less than ideal in terms of speed. wondering if there's anything more appropriate for the deck
Spiraling Embers - spot removal CAN be nice. It's fairly useful early game - devastating late game. But I can't help wondering if another card would better suit me (i.e. raw draw) .
Any other thoughts about anything are always welcome. I plan on revamping the primer soon to be a little more in depth and to clear up any inconsistencies that have cropped up through all the revisions.
I find that if you're including more card draw, then the amount of answers you CAN run less answers then what you normally would. The only thing I question is cutting Reverberate since I enjoy copying as well. Reverb can also copy your draw X spells for their X cost, so I feel you get better value out of that then with Past in Flames, especially if you're running cards that want to shuffle your graveyard into your deck so you can draw the again.
On average, this deck wins by turn 6 (with turn 3 and turn 8 wins being the typical extremes), but I'd like to improve that even more. Making the deck even more efficient will help me toward that end.
So. I'm rethinking some of the cheaper hand-cycling cards like Brainstorm, Faithless Looting, and Ponder. They make great first turn plays and are even useful late game (with Thought Reflection or just cheap hand improvement).
On average, this deck wins by turn 6 (with turn 3 and turn 8 wins being the typical extremes), but I'd like to improve that even more. Making the deck even more efficient will help me toward that end.
So. I'm rethinking some of the cheaper hand-cycling cards like Brainstorm, Faithless Looting, and Ponder. They make great first turn plays and are even useful late game (with Thought Reflection or just cheap hand improvement).
My reasoning being that Frantic Search let's you untap your lands, so if you have any that produce double mana, then you can actually accelerate with it, similar to a ritual effect. More so if you choose to Reverberate it.
Preordain gives you the third option of putting both cards on the bottom of your deck if you don't need them, and Brainstorm has the potential to set up miracles, if you're so inclined.
From reading the OP, I got this mental image of Niv just sitting there atop Nix Aerie (or whatever it is), all chill and fat. He doesn't even talk, but occasionally blasts the battlefield with fireballs (the wheeling and pinging), and distorts time itself to rain down an apocalyptic firestorm.
That mental image, plus with the fact that I very much want to get Izzet vs Golgari means that I might actually give Niv a chance in Cockatrice, see if I actually want to build a blue deck finally. Congratulations on being that interesting spark in a depressing sea of anti-Vorthos for me xD.
Agh, just got severely hosed by a slightly more evolved version of this one. Big reality slap for me. It really showed me how much further this deck has to go. I realized I've been playing against mostly casual decks that don't offer much of a challenge.
He was running about twice as much ramp (including helm of awakening O.o) and Tezzeret the Seeker seemed to play very well for him. He said his average winning turn is turn 4. Mine is around 5 or 6 typically. Many of the cards I've turned my nose up at or previously cut he was running - Psychosis Crawler, Rite of Replication, Fact or Fiction, Sensei's Divining Top, etc... makes me second guess myself.
In other news, Izzet Charm from Return to Ravnica looks awesome - should be an auto include.
I also really like Niv-Mizzet, Dracogenius. Will probably replace Firemind as my general bc he can draw more cards for me solo and doesn't paint me as a big fat hate target. Firemind would just go into the deck itself.
Omniscience and doubling cube played pretty well but cube requires a lot of mana to be effective - it's great with Inner Fire though.
At this point I'd love to hear any further input from the community. I'm always looking to improve this thing.
My Niv deck is much more controlish and budget (no mana drain only one fetch land), but a card that has been an absolute house for me is Glen Elendra Archmage. Another card I find suprisingly strong is Jace Beleren because of its synergy with consecrated sphinx.
Agh, just got severely hosed by a slightly more evolved version of this one. Big reality slap for me. It really showed me how much further this deck has to go. I realized I've been playing against mostly casual decks that don't offer much of a challenge.
He was running about twice as much ramp (including helm of awakening O.o) and Tezzeret the Seeker seemed to play very well for him. He said his average winning turn is turn 4. Mine is around 5 or 6 typically. Many of the cards I've turned my nose up at or previously cut he was running - Psychosis Crawler, Rite of Replication, Fact or Fiction, Sensei's Divining Top, etc... makes me second guess myself.
In other news, Izzet Charm from Return to Ravnica looks awesome - should be an auto include.
I also really like Niv-Mizzet, Dracogenius. Will probably replace Firemind as my general bc he can draw more cards for me solo and doesn't paint me as a big fat hate target. Firemind would just go into the deck itself.
Omniscience and doubling cube played pretty well but cube requires a lot of mana to be effective - it's great with Inner Fire though.
At this point I'd love to hear any further input from the community. I'm always looking to improve this thing.
I just like the idea of having them both availble, period. Dracogenius enables more draw while Firemind enables better burn. But whatever he does, there's really only one mind Niv trusts most: himself. Nuff' said.
First, I'd like to say your Niv deck is pretty awesome and this is an excellent primer. I also agree completely where you're going. Not having the typical Niv combos felt great, especially not relying on Niv in play to win. I resisted for months, but...
This is what happened to me. My deck was considered casual by my more competitive friends and there were no degenerate infinite combos in my Niv deck. I put in Savor the Moment, Future Sight, boots, Mystic Speculation, and Brainstorm, which has been great with Miracle.
Note about Mystic Speculation. After casting it with Mindmoil in play, Mindmoil will go on the stack first and then you get to scry. So, Speculation can still be bought back to your hand without ending up at the bottom of your library. It's been awesome synergy, I don't even need Sensei's.
I also really like Niv-Mizzet, Dracogenius. Will probably replace Firemind as my general bc he can draw more cards for me solo and doesn't paint me as a big fat hate target. Firemind would just go into the deck itself.
I'm still debating on which will be my new general. Could mean Mana Flare and Palinchron for infinite mana to infinitely ping the board! Either way, both Niv's in the deck will be a powerhouse.
Omniscience and doubling cube played pretty well but cube requires a lot of mana to be effective - it's great with Inner Fire though.
I replaced Dream Halls with Omniscience for a while, but either I get shutdown before casting it or it's removed before I can go nuts. It's a huge mana investment, so someone would usually just time walk me.
Have you tried Sunder before? It's been huge for me so far. I vomit artifact ramp out and Sunder as soon as possible while still having a ton of mana available. I never have to discard, and it gives just that much more to my hand to shuffle/draw/Embers. Puzzle Box or Winds of Change can be pretty devastating here.
Hey Rowan, I was wondering what changes you were thinking of making to the deck. I've been playing a competitive Sharuum list for a little bit and one thing I've noticed is faster you make your deck, the less protection you can fit in. If you're looking to cut down your average winning turn, my first suggestion would be to cut a few counterspells. Also, of being competitive is something you really want, I'd also suggest adding the infinites. Yes they are lame and no one enjoys playing against them, but the fact that Niv is seen as a combo general and people typically target you immediately regardless of your list makes being able to win on the spot really handy.
Also I think Dracogenius is an alright include to the deck. I don't think he adds too much except awesome flavor. Replacing the Firemind as your general will take a complete reworking of the deck though since Dracogenius does not have the same synergies with wheel effects as the Firemind does.
My Niv deck is much more controlish and budget (no mana drain only one fetch land), but a card that has been an absolute house for me is Glen Elendra Archmage. Another card I find suprisingly strong is Jace Beleren because of its synergy with consecrated sphinx.
Thanks for the comment. I'm gradually cutting my counters down to just the few essentials. Glen Elendra Archmage doesn't quite provide the kind of quick power I need. Jace Beleren isn't included either for similar reasons. The sphinx combo is good but lackluster compared to any of the wheel effects. His ultimate isn't too useful to me either.
First, I'd like to say your Niv deck is pretty awesome and this is an excellent primer. I also agree completely where you're going. Not having the typical Niv combos felt great, especially not relying on Niv in play to win. I resisted for months, but...
This is what happened to me. My deck was considered casual by my more competitive friends and there were no degenerate infinite combos in my Niv deck. I put in Savor the Moment, Future Sight, boots, Mystic Speculation, and Brainstorm, which has been great with Miracle.
Why boots? Niv needs to be in play to be useful and it prevents you from targeting Niv with Future Sight. Considering Savor the Moment essentially reads "Put a land from your hand onto the battlefield and draw a card." for 1UU it isn't too bad. The extra planeswalker activation is nice too (I was considering adding one or two in).
Note about Mystic Speculation. After casting it with Mindmoil in play, Mindmoil will go on the stack first and then you get to scry. So, Speculation can still be bought back to your hand without ending up at the bottom of your library. It's been awesome synergy, I don't even need Sensei's.
That's a pretty sweet combo actually, I'll give it go.
I'm still debating on which will be my new general. Could mean Mana Flare and Palinchron for infinite mana to infinitely ping the board! Either way, both Niv's in the deck will be a powerhouse.
I'm on the fence with Mana Flare. If I had some sort of land accell it could be a lot better. Not so great with Sunder though.
I replaced Dream Halls with Omniscience for a while, but either I get shutdown before casting it or it's removed before I can go nuts. It's a huge mana investment, so someone would usually just time walk me.
You're right 7UUU is ridiculous, but if you can cast it, it says "I win" like very few other single cards in the deck.
Have you tried Sunder before? It's been huge for me so far. I vomit artifact ramp out and Sunder as soon as possible while still having a ton of mana available. I never have to discard, and it gives just that much more to my hand to shuffle/draw/Embers. Puzzle Box or Winds of Change can be pretty devastating here.
No I haven't tried it. It just seems like something that would make people hate playing against my deck even more without helping me win sooner. Most competitive decks will run a lot of artifact ramp (except green, in which case it would be fairly devastating) so I'm reluctant to use it.
Hey Rowan, I was wondering what changes you were thinking of making to the deck. I've been playing a competitive Sharuum list for a little bit and one thing I've noticed is faster you make your deck, the less protection you can fit in. If you're looking to cut down your average winning turn, my first suggestion would be to cut a few counterspells.
Yeah the counters and removal are slowly coming out. I'm aiming to find the right balance between protection (counterspells and removal) and speed (ramp and cheap draw)
Also, of being competitive is something you really want, I'd also suggest adding the infinites. Yes they are lame and no one enjoys playing against them, but the fact that Niv is seen as a combo general and people typically target you immediately regardless of your list makes being able to win on the spot really handy.
It's something I've been considering - maybe not so much as an exclusive win condition but as another way to get the massive handsize.
Also I think Dracogenius is an alright include to the deck. I don't think he adds too much except awesome flavor. Replacing the Firemind as your general will take a complete reworking of the deck though since Dracogenius does not have the same synergies with wheel effects as the Firemind does.
Remember that the wheel effects mostly combo with Consecrated Sphinx and are great on their own. Having Niv in play is just icing on the cake most of the time.
Hi,
First of all I love this deck, tried it a couple of time and it works great! Still I want to make it my own and trying new stuff with it, first of all I'm trying Trinket Mage, he can fetch a Mana Crypt making hem cost just U and allowing you to accel into Niv the next turn, also he can fetch a Sol ring or Library of Leng if needed.
Glad you like it! I'm currently running Fabricate instead of Trinket Mage mostly because it can grab any artifact and it's a sorcery (more synergistic with other cards in the deck)
Also I want to try Flux, while it doesn't force your opponnent to discard and draw, it's a good way to filter the lands from your hand if you have a big hand, leaving the good cards of your hand in place and doesn't draw that much hate early in the game.
Lastly I think Mystic Retrieval might work as well, it's a great card to discard to any of our wheel effects, Izzet Charm or Faithless Looting making it a second Snapcaster effect in the deck (only this one doesn't remove his target form the game.
Flux - The fact that it will typically help your opponents puts me off (because they have control over what they discard (unlike Wheel of Fortune, etc). I WILL however give it a go and see how I like it.
Fact or Fiction - This is something I've never actually put in the deck. It's worth giving a try though. I guess I always thought it was too narrowly useful midgame and not so much early or late.
Minds Aglow - Considering adding this back in. Although, it's pretty uncommon that people save untapped lands to help ole Nivy draw cards on YOUR turn. Still... for YOU it's basically a Braingeyser for U less.
So that's why I don't run a lot of what you mentioned, including Spell Crumple and Hinder. I will generally only use my counters to protect my own stuff and combat other control decks. I'd rather have the cheap or free counters for that purpose. I just don't have enough reason to be afraid of other people's decks. Maybe all the decks I play against suck?
Karn Liberated is great for obvious reasons. Colorless permanent removal. HOWEVER it comes back to that speed thing. He costs 7. By the time I have seven mana available, I generally don't need to be worried about the other player's boards. I have Chaos Warp and Devastation Tide to take care of permanents. Karn requires there to be permanents worth removing to be useful, just like any other removal, but costing 7 makes it really hit or miss.
Maze of Ith might actually go in. Generally, I try to cut down on my colorless land (doesn't even produce mana no less) but I could swap it for something like Academy Ruins which I never seem to use.
Misdirection seems really good. I've definitely been looking at it.
All is Dust - similar reason to why I don't run Karn. It costs 7 :/ HOWEVER I would prefer this over Karn any day because it kills everything, and like you said it would hurt me very little. I may try it out and see how I like it. It may swap out for Blasphemous Act. But not Evacuation or Devastation Tide (because of the combo I have with hand-cycling). Although Act can be very efficient (kill all critters for R) it can also leave a lot of nasty stuff behind - it's narrow in that way.
Stroke of Genius - has been in and out. I have more efficient ways of drawing cards... maybe not at instant speed, but I can't think of anything I'd want to swap it for.
As for the artifact land, I see your point. That could definitely be annoying. I guess the small benefit I would see from metalcraft doesn't really justify the risk of having them die to artifact removal (something I AM paranoid about).
MY PRIMER ON NIV-MIZZET, THE FIREMIND, MY CUSTOM CARDS ON DEVIANTART
My other decks:
Kaalia of the Vast: Certified Air Raid Material
Prossh, Skyraider of Kher: NOM NOM NOM!
Aurelia, the Warleader: Warclamp
Have you played with Past in Flames? I like the snapcaster utility it gives us, but I don't wonder if it costs too much to be "efficient" enough for the list you run. I ask because I'll probably run it in the budgeted version of Niv-Mizzet I'm want to run.
Also, think you'll use the alternate art foil version of Niv that's coming out in the duel decks later this year?
www.commandercast.com
Commandercast on Tumblr!
My EDH/Commander List:
Wedges:
Numot, the Devastator RWU
Damia, Sage of Stone GUB
Niv-Mizzet, Dracogenius
Olivia Voldaren
That being said, I still want to try it out and see what happens. I'll keep you posted. (Probably swap for Reverberate )
MY PRIMER ON NIV-MIZZET, THE FIREMIND, MY CUSTOM CARDS ON DEVIANTART
My other decks:
Kaalia of the Vast: Certified Air Raid Material
Prossh, Skyraider of Kher: NOM NOM NOM!
Aurelia, the Warleader: Warclamp
UB Grimgrin, Corpse-BornUB
WRG Marath, Will of the Wild GRW
RGOmnath, Locus of RageGR
WBTeysa, Orzhov ScionBW
URThe Locust GodRU
W(W/R)RAkiri, Line-SlingerW(W/R)R
BRWC Mardu Shops - Tymna and Akiri Artifacts BRWC
I also happened to come across Mystic Retrieval. Cheaper to flash back than Past in Flames, and lets the player choose when it wants to cast the card it retrieves. I definitely like it as a budget option.
www.commandercast.com
Commandercast on Tumblr!
My EDH/Commander List:
Wedges:
Numot, the Devastator RWU
Damia, Sage of Stone GUB
Niv-Mizzet, Dracogenius
Olivia Voldaren
Thanks
Arahbo, Kitty Kat Beatdown Decklist
Mizzix of the Izmagnus Decklist
Breya, Etherium Shaper
Yuriko, the Tiger's Shadow Decklist
My Current Set Cube Lists:
Kamigawa Re-Experience
Ravnica, City of Guilds Re-Experience
Alara Re-Experience
@MaelstromX: thanks for catching that, I'll fix it.
@Maximum_Intelligence: glad you like the deck. Final Fortune is boss. I love cards that have severe drawbacks if you don't play them in the right way but are very cheap. Mainly it allows me a bit of a buffer if can't kill everyone that turn or just a way out of a boring game!
MY PRIMER ON NIV-MIZZET, THE FIREMIND, MY CUSTOM CARDS ON DEVIANTART
My other decks:
Kaalia of the Vast: Certified Air Raid Material
Prossh, Skyraider of Kher: NOM NOM NOM!
Aurelia, the Warleader: Warclamp
So kudos for all your work. I've found it very helpful!
@sjd0020: The extra turns ARE nice (I ran them for a while) but I found myself discarding them more often than using them. They aren't good early game and by late game I just don't need them to win.
I've got library of leng and reliquary tower so spellbook is a bit redundant for my purposes. It also doesn't do anything else or combo with anything like the above mentioned do.
Time reversal isn't TOO bad. I may switch things up again when I get back into the game. I've been hiatus for the summer.
p.s. ...............RETURN TO RAVNICA!!!!!! :OOOOOOOO <3<3<3 !!!!!
MY PRIMER ON NIV-MIZZET, THE FIREMIND, MY CUSTOM CARDS ON DEVIANTART
My other decks:
Kaalia of the Vast: Certified Air Raid Material
Prossh, Skyraider of Kher: NOM NOM NOM!
Aurelia, the Warleader: Warclamp
So can we assume that Niv-Mizzet 2.0 is going to get a serious l lookin' at when he gets spoiled?
www.commandercast.com
Commandercast on Tumblr!
My EDH/Commander List:
Wedges:
Numot, the Devastator RWU
Damia, Sage of Stone GUB
Niv-Mizzet, Dracogenius
Olivia Voldaren
MY PRIMER ON NIV-MIZZET, THE FIREMIND, MY CUSTOM CARDS ON DEVIANTART
My other decks:
Kaalia of the Vast: Certified Air Raid Material
Prossh, Skyraider of Kher: NOM NOM NOM!
Aurelia, the Warleader: Warclamp
-1 Blasphemous Act + 1 All is Dust - Removes pesky planeswalkers and enchantments where Act does not. All round great panic button. Pretty happy with it so far.
-1 Teferi, Mage of Zhalfir +1 Time Reversal - Teferi isn't typically needed (he costs a lot also and is really only useful to me late game and even then only against other control decks.
-1 Evacuation +1 Blue Sun's Zenith - Zenith has the nice advantage of being able to mill a player out in a pinch. With Sphinx in play I can also target another player for double the cards. It comes back to my philosophy about being able to win before creatures become a threat. Although I love Evac, I have Devastation Tide which does more for the same cost (and potentially cheaper).
The above swaps were more for consistency than anything. This deck NEEDS cards in hand. Cast rates for Teferi and Evacuation were relatively low.
-1 Reverberate + 1 Past in Flames - just wanted to try this one out for a while. So far I like it, but I miss the instant utility of reverb.
I'm rethinking the "Draw X cards" type of raw draw for the following reasons:
1. Although it rarely occurs, this deck really hates to be holding onto a 1 or 2 card hand. It makes Niv a very sad dragon wizard. Having cards in hand is so important to this deck's win conditions that I just don't want to risk it.
2. With a large handsize it rarely matters what threats are currently out since I tend to have the answers to them in my hand. Where removal is situational, card advantage is never.
3. The X is a good mana sink for my armada of artifact ramp late game.
4. They are usable both early and late game.
The other option is to add more tutors. Tutors are always great cards to have in hand. The transmute tutors might make a reappearance. Specifically Drift of Phantasms and Dizzy Spell
Other cards on the chopping block:
Thran Dynamo - less than ideal in terms of speed. wondering if there's anything more appropriate for the deck
Psychic Possession - underpowered IMO
Spiraling Embers - spot removal CAN be nice. It's fairly useful early game - devastating late game. But I can't help wondering if another card would better suit me (i.e. raw draw) .
Any other thoughts about anything are always welcome. I plan on revamping the primer soon to be a little more in depth and to clear up any inconsistencies that have cropped up through all the revisions.
MY PRIMER ON NIV-MIZZET, THE FIREMIND, MY CUSTOM CARDS ON DEVIANTART
My other decks:
Kaalia of the Vast: Certified Air Raid Material
Prossh, Skyraider of Kher: NOM NOM NOM!
Aurelia, the Warleader: Warclamp
I find that if you're including more card draw, then the amount of answers you CAN run less answers then what you normally would. The only thing I question is cutting Reverberate since I enjoy copying as well. Reverb can also copy your draw X spells for their X cost, so I feel you get better value out of that then with Past in Flames, especially if you're running cards that want to shuffle your graveyard into your deck so you can draw the again.
www.commandercast.com
Commandercast on Tumblr!
My EDH/Commander List:
Wedges:
Numot, the Devastator RWU
Damia, Sage of Stone GUB
Niv-Mizzet, Dracogenius
Olivia Voldaren
On average, this deck wins by turn 6 (with turn 3 and turn 8 wins being the typical extremes), but I'd like to improve that even more. Making the deck even more efficient will help me toward that end.
Compared to Windfall and Wheel of Fortune I cast Incendiary Command and Reforge the Soul quite less just because they aren't as efficient - they aren't typically playable early game which is where this shines.
So. I'm rethinking some of the cheaper hand-cycling cards like Brainstorm, Faithless Looting, and Ponder. They make great first turn plays and are even useful late game (with Thought Reflection or just cheap hand improvement).
Any thoughts? I'd be happy to hear suggestions about other cards similar to brainstorm or faithless looting. Preordain, Careful Study, Compulsive Research, and Frantic Search come to mind. Choices choices.
MY PRIMER ON NIV-MIZZET, THE FIREMIND, MY CUSTOM CARDS ON DEVIANTART
My other decks:
Kaalia of the Vast: Certified Air Raid Material
Prossh, Skyraider of Kher: NOM NOM NOM!
Aurelia, the Warleader: Warclamp
My top three would be Frantic Search, Preordain, and Brainstorm, in that order.
My reasoning being that Frantic Search let's you untap your lands, so if you have any that produce double mana, then you can actually accelerate with it, similar to a ritual effect. More so if you choose to Reverberate it.
Preordain gives you the third option of putting both cards on the bottom of your deck if you don't need them, and Brainstorm has the potential to set up miracles, if you're so inclined.
www.commandercast.com
Commandercast on Tumblr!
My EDH/Commander List:
Wedges:
Numot, the Devastator RWU
Damia, Sage of Stone GUB
Niv-Mizzet, Dracogenius
Olivia Voldaren
That mental image, plus with the fact that I very much want to get Izzet vs Golgari means that I might actually give Niv a chance in Cockatrice, see if I actually want to build a blue deck finally. Congratulations on being that interesting spark in a depressing sea of anti-Vorthos for me xD.
--- Meren of Clan Nel Toth --- Jhoira of the Ghitu --- Prime Speaker Zegana ---
--- Drana, Kalastria Bloodchief --- Ghoulcaller Gisa --- Akroma, Angel of Fury --- Titania, Protector of Argoth ---
@Sanity's_Eclipse: glad to be of inspiration. This is my favorite deck.
MY PRIMER ON NIV-MIZZET, THE FIREMIND, MY CUSTOM CARDS ON DEVIANTART
My other decks:
Kaalia of the Vast: Certified Air Raid Material
Prossh, Skyraider of Kher: NOM NOM NOM!
Aurelia, the Warleader: Warclamp
He was running about twice as much ramp (including helm of awakening O.o) and Tezzeret the Seeker seemed to play very well for him. He said his average winning turn is turn 4. Mine is around 5 or 6 typically. Many of the cards I've turned my nose up at or previously cut he was running - Psychosis Crawler, Rite of Replication, Fact or Fiction, Sensei's Divining Top, etc... makes me second guess myself.
In other news, Izzet Charm from Return to Ravnica looks awesome - should be an auto include.
I also really like Niv-Mizzet, Dracogenius. Will probably replace Firemind as my general bc he can draw more cards for me solo and doesn't paint me as a big fat hate target. Firemind would just go into the deck itself.
Omniscience and doubling cube played pretty well but cube requires a lot of mana to be effective - it's great with Inner Fire though.
At this point I'd love to hear any further input from the community. I'm always looking to improve this thing.
MY PRIMER ON NIV-MIZZET, THE FIREMIND, MY CUSTOM CARDS ON DEVIANTART
My other decks:
Kaalia of the Vast: Certified Air Raid Material
Prossh, Skyraider of Kher: NOM NOM NOM!
Aurelia, the Warleader: Warclamp
I just like the idea of having them both availble, period. Dracogenius enables more draw while Firemind enables better burn. But whatever he does, there's really only one mind Niv trusts most: himself. Nuff' said.
www.commandercast.com
Commandercast on Tumblr!
My EDH/Commander List:
Wedges:
Numot, the Devastator RWU
Damia, Sage of Stone GUB
Niv-Mizzet, Dracogenius
Olivia Voldaren
This is what happened to me. My deck was considered casual by my more competitive friends and there were no degenerate infinite combos in my Niv deck. I put in Savor the Moment, Future Sight, boots, Mystic Speculation, and Brainstorm, which has been great with Miracle.
Note about Mystic Speculation. After casting it with Mindmoil in play, Mindmoil will go on the stack first and then you get to scry. So, Speculation can still be bought back to your hand without ending up at the bottom of your library. It's been awesome synergy, I don't even need Sensei's.
I'm still debating on which will be my new general. Could mean Mana Flare and Palinchron for infinite mana to infinitely ping the board! Either way, both Niv's in the deck will be a powerhouse.
I replaced Dream Halls with Omniscience for a while, but either I get shutdown before casting it or it's removed before I can go nuts. It's a huge mana investment, so someone would usually just time walk me.
Have you tried Sunder before? It's been huge for me so far. I vomit artifact ramp out and Sunder as soon as possible while still having a ton of mana available. I never have to discard, and it gives just that much more to my hand to shuffle/draw/Embers. Puzzle Box or Winds of Change can be pretty devastating here.
If you're curious, here's my list: Drawing Flames.
Also I think Dracogenius is an alright include to the deck. I don't think he adds too much except awesome flavor. Replacing the Firemind as your general will take a complete reworking of the deck though since Dracogenius does not have the same synergies with wheel effects as the Firemind does.
Thanks for the comment. I'm gradually cutting my counters down to just the few essentials. Glen Elendra Archmage doesn't quite provide the kind of quick power I need. Jace Beleren isn't included either for similar reasons. The sphinx combo is good but lackluster compared to any of the wheel effects. His ultimate isn't too useful to me either.
Thanks for the support
Why boots? Niv needs to be in play to be useful and it prevents you from targeting Niv with Future Sight. Considering Savor the Moment essentially reads "Put a land from your hand onto the battlefield and draw a card." for 1UU it isn't too bad. The extra planeswalker activation is nice too (I was considering adding one or two in).
That's a pretty sweet combo actually, I'll give it go.
I'm on the fence with Mana Flare. If I had some sort of land accell it could be a lot better. Not so great with Sunder though.
You're right 7UUU is ridiculous, but if you can cast it, it says "I win" like very few other single cards in the deck.
No I haven't tried it. It just seems like something that would make people hate playing against my deck even more without helping me win sooner. Most competitive decks will run a lot of artifact ramp (except green, in which case it would be fairly devastating) so I'm reluctant to use it.
Thanks very much for sharing. Might I ask what your typical winning turn is?
Yeah the counters and removal are slowly coming out. I'm aiming to find the right balance between protection (counterspells and removal) and speed (ramp and cheap draw)
It's something I've been considering - maybe not so much as an exclusive win condition but as another way to get the massive handsize.
Remember that the wheel effects mostly combo with Consecrated Sphinx and are great on their own. Having Niv in play is just icing on the cake most of the time.
Glad you like it! I'm currently running Fabricate instead of Trinket Mage mostly because it can grab any artifact and it's a sorcery (more synergistic with other cards in the deck)
Flux - The fact that it will typically help your opponents puts me off (because they have control over what they discard (unlike Wheel of Fortune, etc). I WILL however give it a go and see how I like it.
Mystic Retrieval - This is overcosted IMO. I'd rather have Past in Flames
Meddle, Veil of secrecy, Lightning Greaves, Overwhelming Intellect - too situational IMO
Fact or Fiction - This is something I've never actually put in the deck. It's worth giving a try though. I guess I always thought it was too narrowly useful midgame and not so much early or late.
Goblin Electromancer - Yes, probably
Peer Through Depths - meh, I would prefer Mystic Speculation
Minds Aglow - Considering adding this back in. Although, it's pretty uncommon that people save untapped lands to help ole Nivy draw cards on YOUR turn. Still... for YOU it's basically a Braingeyser for U less.
MY PRIMER ON NIV-MIZZET, THE FIREMIND, MY CUSTOM CARDS ON DEVIANTART
My other decks:
Kaalia of the Vast: Certified Air Raid Material
Prossh, Skyraider of Kher: NOM NOM NOM!
Aurelia, the Warleader: Warclamp