Not yet, but I can see that it's very good. Not sure what I would swap it for though. I might sideboard it along with Pyroblast and Red Elemental Blast. Shattering Spree is pretty situational I guess, more so than a counter. I'll give it some thought.
Chandra the Firebrand seems to be a good fit for this deck. I have found that, outside of tutoring, it is generally not easy to construct a hand of Inner Fire or Comet Storm with a matching copy spell. Chandra could possibly help you combo out earlier by providing copies of your key spells on demand.
This is a great primer, sirrah! I've decided to build Niv-Mizzet straightaway.
Another possible option for Shattering Spree is Vandalblast: it's still tutorable by Dizzy Spell, has the option of taking out one threat at a low cost, but has a larger scale option as well.
A question: I can't really afford Capture and Temporal Manipulation; should I replace them with less efficient time walk effects or with other spells?
@kite: Yeah she's definitely a good card. It's just that I have no blockers to protect her from creature attack over the long haul. In more competitive play, walkers only last a turn or two before getting removed. I tend to like walkers that are immediately efficient. That's the only reason Tezzeret, the Seeker made the cut. 3R is a lot to pay for a Reverbrate and her other abilities are more or less irrelevant for this deck.
@CaptainLoquacious: Glad you liked the primer! Vandalblast is definitely a great card in Commander. I have yet to decide if it's really better than Shattering Spree in this deck though.
I'd forgotten about Temporal Mastery--Good catch! I'm almost finished with the version that I've cobbled together, and I'm looking forward to piloting it to victory this weekend.
I have had some modest victories with this deck in our local 1v1 tournaments by copying most of the list and substituting the banned cards with other mana stones. Very, very explosive and surprisingly simple to play. Unfortunately, I found that it is also very dependent on your opening hands and mulligan skills.
Banefire is a no-brainer substitute for 1v1. A lot of people would actually just sit back and wait for your kill spell thinking that saving their counterspells at the last possible moment would stop you cold. The looks on people's faces as you remind them about Banefire being uncounterable makes playing this deck so worth it.
On another note, how about giving Quicken a try? It replaces itself and casting many of your sorceries in this list at instant speed is downright wrong.
Unfortunately, a lot of the list includes high power blue cards and ramp. What all did you have to take out?
The cheap hand improvement cards like Faithless Looting and Careful Study should help you recover from a bad mulligan and less than ideal draws during those first few turns. That's a big reason why they're there. It takes a good deal of experience to know what to pitch and what to keep. You can mulligan down to 2 lands, an Izzet Signet, and a Wheel of Fortune if you need to.
Lol @ Banefire. I typically rely on my own counters like Pact of Negation and Force of Will to get my combos through. If they get countered, I have back up plans. This deck doesn't even need Niv to win.
Quicken... I've definitely considered it. It's good but doesn't seem essential enough to justify a spot. I might give it another try though. I really like how it synergizes with counterspells and my bigger draw spells. It would be nasty to Quicken a Show and Tell or a Time Reversal effect (of which I have plenty). + the Cantrip truly makes it awesome since I can just cycle it if I don't have a good sorcery in hand. I'm debating whether I should use Quicken over Leyline of Anticipation or even Vedalken Orrey. I mean it's very efficient and I like the surprise aspect but you can only use it once (maybe more with Snapcaster). Leyline and Orrey are permanent effects.
Alright, I'm considering some tentative swaps and I would appreciate input.
-1 Preordain +1 Quicken - Pretty solid swap I think. Quicken grants me a lot of utility I've realized - including 1. Leaving my lands untapped for counters and instant removal. 2. Casting big draw spells such as Recurring Insight and not having to discard right away. 3. Handcycling just before my turn so that my opponents don't get the first benefit. I just don't like the use once aspect of it. I'm considering Leyline of Anticipation or Vedalken Orrery as well.
-1 Time Warp +1 Past in Flames I really wanted to give this a try. Past in Flames gives me a lot of added value I think. I think that 3 extra turn cards is pretty sufficient. Time Warp is the weakest of my extra turn cards simply because it can be Swerved.
-1 Tezzeret the Seeker +1 Show and Tell - Show and Tell is really evil. It allows me to get Dream Halls or even Omniscience (if I choose to add it) out even quicker, making turn 1 wins much more likely. Other awesome "targets" would be Thought Reflection, Consecrated Sphinx, or Gilded Lotus. The only drawback is that it has a very narrow window of usefullness (first 2-3 turns). Tezzeret just seems a bit underpowered compared to the rest of the deck. He's good for establishing board position but he's also an obvious threat. I usually only get 1 or 2 turns to use him. Generally I dislike planeswalkers in this deck.
-1 Time Reversal +1 Personal Tutor - Personal Tutor allows me a bit more flexibility as well as increased likelihood of getting miracle cost castings. I really like the idea of a turn 2 (with ramp) Temporal Mastery or Reforge the Soul or the added security of being able to grab Devastation Tide when I need it. Time Reversal is the weakest of my draw sevens. It feels a bit redundant.
Of the spoiled cards so far, I think only 2 warrant discussion.
Ral Zarek - Obviously very powerful. The untap ability means that he doesn't hurt your tempo too badly since you can untap the Sol Ring used to cast him. If he survives for 3 turns after that, you get the possibility of FIVE extra turns, but statistically 2-3. Overall pretty nice but does he really get us closer to our goal of drawing our library by turn 6 at the latest? He's also a walker, which I cannot easily protect for the long hull.
Melek, Izzet Paragon - This is essentially an Izzet version of Oracle of Mul Daya. But unlike Oracle, he costs 6 and doesn't filter our lands or provide ramp. He doesn't really offer us enough of an immediate advantage like Thought Reflection, Consecrated Sphinx, or Dream Halls which are similarly costed. This is more of a build around card I think that would probably make a better commander if anything.
Since I didn't get any input, I went ahead and just made the swaps. Also made some additional swaps. Check below for the changelog. Also please check the OP and let me know if you see an inconsistencies.
-1 Preordain +1 Quicken - Pretty solid swap I think. Quicken grants me a lot of utility I've realized - including 1. Leaving my lands untapped for counters and instant removal. 2. Casting big draw spells such as Recurring Insight and not having to discard right away. 3. Handcycling just before my turn so that my opponents don't get the first benefit. I just don't like the use once aspect of it. I'm considering Leyline of Anticipation or Vedalken Orrery as well.
-1 Time Reversal +1 Personal Tutor - Personal Tutor allows me a bit more flexibility as well as increased likelihood of getting miracle cost castings. I really like the idea of a turn 2 (with ramp) Temporal Mastery or Reforge the Soul or the added security of being able to grab Devastation Tide when I need it. Time Reversal is the weakest of my draw sevens. It feels a bit redundant and more of a budget alternative to Timetwister.
-1 Time Warp +1 Past in Flames Past in Flames gives me a lot of added value and a bit of cushioning in sticky situations. I think that 3 extra turn cards is pretty sufficient. Time Warp is the weakest of my extra turn cards simply because it can be Swerved.
-1 Tezzeret the Seeker +1 Show and Tell - Show and Tell is really evil. It allows me to get Dream Halls or even Omniscience (if I choose to add it) out even quicker, making turn 1 wins much more likely. Other awesome "targets" would be Thought Reflection, Consecrated Sphinx, or Gilded Lotus. The only drawback is that it has a very narrow window of usefullness (first 2-3 turns). Tezzeret just seems a bit underpowered compared to the rest of the deck. He's good for establishing board position but he's also an obvious threat. I usually only get 1 or 2 turns to use him. Generally I dislike planeswalkers in this deck.
-1 Drift of Phantasms + 1 Merchant Scroll - This is pretty much a no brainer. Can't believe it took me this long to realize how much better it was. >.< It can grab more than twice the number of cards for U less. Great targets include Chaos Warp, Cyclonic Rift, Comet Storm, Intuition, Mystical Tutor, Reiterate, Stroke of Genius, Turnabout, or any of my counters.
-1 Ethereal Usher +1 Mindbreak Trap - Usher is good because it grabs all of my big draw spells like Recurring Insight or Con Sphinx but it's more of a budget alternative to Intuition I'm coming to realize. I'd rather have one more hard counter. Mindbreak Trap is excellent in your opening hand in more competitive games where turn 1 and 2 wins are possible or even likely. It also is a great answer to storm, cascade, and the uncounterable.
Unless your meta is very counter or storm-heavy, Mindbreak Trap's "free" cost seems too conditional for most games.
If your primary usage of the trap is to be a third copy of Force of Will, you might be better off using Misdirection. It's practically a free counter to anything that might hurt your combo and ensures that your shenanigans won't end up hurting you instead if someone plays redirection spells.
Dream Halls allows you to bypass the mana requirements of your spells at the cost of your handsize. Mindmoil cycles your hand whenever you play spells but also allows you to stack your cards under your library in any order that you want. This is critical.
With a bit of luck, you hope to draw into cards that draw even more cards to keep Dream Halls from emptying your hand and increasing the amount of cards you see with Mind Moil. If you stack your library correctly, you'll be able to time your "reshuffle into library" effects like Timetwister to keep the combo going when your library is low on cards. Since Dream Halls makes you discard cards and not remove them from the game, you could potentially keep doing this until your opponents start throwing peanuts at you.
Personally, I have a lone Kozilek, Butcher of Truth in my deck for this purpose. I like the fact that he can also be an alternate win condition or added draw as a nice bonus.
@Shinwei: yeah kite did a good job of explaining it. With a large hand size to start out with (say 20-30 cards) you are ensured a ton of damage from Niv with the combo and you can pretty much keep Mindmoiling an arbitrarily large number of times - the larger the handsize the more damage you will inflict and the longer you can do it. It's funny to use that combo against lifegain decks. They will be at like 600 life and think they are untouchable. Niv just cackles madly.
@kite Misdirection is undoubtedly a great candidate with some amazing utility. I may sideboard it though for now until I can playtest Mindbreak Trap some more. I may end up putting them both in at some point if I feel like I need the control. If anything, I will use misdirection instead of mana drain for my paper deck.
So Trade Secrets is now, much to my sorrow, banned in commander. Pretty silly considering that it was printed in the Commander set >.<
So now, I must swap in something else in its place. Maybe Scroll Rack (to help with miracle). It combos nicely with fetchlands and tutors as well. It's incredibly efficient handcycling. I might also consider some more control such as Misdirection, or Time Stop, or an extra turn card.
I'm also strongly considering taking out Savor the Moment. It's just took weak. I don't have any planeswalkers to truly abuse it. I will probably swap in another 5 CMC extra turn card.
After playtesting, Quicken is out. :/ I swapped it for Leyline of Anticipation. It's just better in Commander. You can only use Quicken once or twice and Leyline is potentially free.
Just discovered Meditate. Seems really powerful. In combo with ramp, it's really good. It's also great for those sticky lategame situations where you just need answers.
Your mana base seems robust enough to support Cavern of Souls. I wonder if it would play well with or instead of Boseiju. Boseiju's here to protect your spell-based combos but Niv+Curiosity/Eye remains the easiest combo you can pull off and in that sense, Cavern should be the better call.
With Tolaria West fetching the Cavern and Niv becoming a more consistent presence, perhaps combos around him could be more of a centerpiece to the deck rather than its sidearms. Tandem Lookout might even earn a slot here with an uncounterable Niv.
To bad you decided against Quicken. Although I do agree it may not be versatile enough in EDH, I just love using Molten Psyche - Quicken - Windfall stacked with a huge hand... mmm, the pain.
Cavern of Souls does seem good. I'll consider it. Most of the time though, Niv doesn't get countered. It's either the Curiosity or the draw spell that triggers the combo that gets the counter.
I really like Quicken but I think it's place is in a some sort of storm based legacy deck. Or even a storm themed commander deck. The effect is just too small and momentary.
Hi Rowan, this is a great list! Thanks for the comments in my own thread (here - you might remember it :)). I'm glad it could serve as such an inspiration for you! As you've undoubtedly seen, Niv-Mizzet Commander is arguably the most fun you can have in Magic, and it seems to have served you well over the past year.
As you noticed in my thread, I haven't been playing the game heavily for quite some time now, so my list IS pretty old. I'll be making updates in the near future, so hopefully that will breathe some new life into the list! I'm going for a different theme than you - I aim for an unstoppable and resilient late-game, rather than a consistent, powerful, early win - so our lists complement one another quite well.
At any rate, a few card choices you, or others, might consider depending on their meta and the speed of their decks: Flusterstorm - You seem to play lots of spells, so this is excellent protection. Trinket Mage - Sooooo many targets Jace, the Mind Sculptor - You might choose not to play him - but I really believe that any blue deck, especially focused around searching, dig, and card-draw, NEEDS to have an explanation for why he's not there. Pithing Needle - Just something to keep in mind, if you're up against tricky decks. Tolarian Winds - For a deck like yours, which focuses so heavily on self-generated card draw, this is 1cc cheaper than Windfall and can be played at instant speed. Blue Sun's Zenith - Potential replacement for Stroke of Genius, if you think the color cost is worth it Ponder Negate Hinder Dissipate
- How does Vesuva treat you? My deck isn't designed to be as quick as yours, and even there it seemed to be dead weight most of the time.
- I'm a little unsure about Mishra's Workshop - seems to me like it's only useful for getting the Lotus or Dynamo out and is otherwise a very huge hit to tempo / waste of a land slot.
- How often does Temporal Mastery go off for its miracle cost? Regular old Time Warp sounds like the better choice if you're often winning on turns 3-8.... not much opportunity for Miracle to really save you that much cost.
- I have the same question with Reforge the Soul - how often do you ever cast it for Miracle cost, vs. it being dead weight? Would Time Reversal suit the slot better? You're already pretty hard in blue (easier cost to meet), and you get to recycle your hand / graveyard.
- I might be missing something about your meta (and I haven't had time to read through all 9 pages yet), but Mindbreak Trap seems narrow and costly.... I would pick Flusterstorm or Negate over it almost undoubtedly (especially because you win so quickly that you generally won't even care about not countering a single creature).
- Do you ever use buyback on Reiterate? If not, I'd swap it with Fork
- Boseiju is a double-edged sword if you're really shooting for tempo.... how has it worked out for you? It's often a thorn in my side, even with a slower deck, and I've been on the fence about removing it.
Awesome list, I really would like to try it sometime :D:thumbsup:
From the OP, buying back Reiterate is part of his main win conditions. He needs to cast it with enough cards and mana to buy it back and fuel the infinite mana combo with Inner Fire.
Foil is a good substitute for Mindbreak Trap as well. With all the acceleration, it seems easy enough to hold on to that one Island for when you decide to break out any of this deck's combos with counter backup.
Great to see you've updated your thread Firestorm. Looking sharp! I will look over your recommendations and your updated thread in more detail a bit later when am able to focus better. Just wanted to stop by and let you all know this Primer aint dead. I'll just be on hiatus for the next few months.
Hey man, i love the deck(and thanks for posting a budget friendly version) I ay have missed it but have you thought of including Psychosis Crawler? with a lot of the card draw you've got in here he seems like he would work well alongside Niv
What about adding more mass-removal spells? Oblivion Stone, for example, seems to be a good option in mid/late game if something is wrong with our combos and we have to deal with other players.:)
Hey man, i love the deck(and thanks for posting a budget friendly version) I ay have missed it but have you thought of including Psychosis Crawler? with a lot of the card draw you've got in here he seems like he would work well alongside Niv
Yeah, I've used the crawler before. His global effect is indeed quite powerful but he just eats removal almost every time due to being an artifact creature and such an obvious threat. The bottom line I think is that he's just "win more". At 5 cmc I never want him in my opening hand so that really limits his usefulness. Besides, I already have a lot of other routes to victory.
What about adding more mass-removal spells? Oblivion Stone, for example, seems to be a good option in mid/late game if something is wrong with our combos and we have to deal with other players.:)
If you need more board sweepers you can certainly add them. Devastation Tide and Cyclonic Rift have been enough for me since I can easily tutor or hand cycle for them when needed.
With the imminent release the newest commander set, I figured it was time to pop back in and discuss Firemind's Fury. I've been contemplating a few changes recently and I'd like to go over Firestorm's suggestions.
Inclusion?
Flusterstorm - I do like it a lot. It's a perfect defensive counter, however much less useful offensively.
Trinket Mage - Yes, this is definitely going in. Worth it to get Sol Ring or Mana Crypt early on.
Jace, the Mind Sculptor - I don't use Planeswalkers because I often can't protect them for more than a couple turns. If they are any good (Jace is amazingly good) they are huge targets. Often I am paying 2UU just for a Brainstorm or an Unsummon.
Pithing Needle - Typically, Force of Will is my answer to tricky decks. Either that or Chaos Warp. They've rarely failed me, however Pithing Needle is indeed a great sideboard card if you need it.
Tolarian Winds - Trying this out now. It seems quite good. I just don't like how it doesn't combo with Consecrated Sphinx.
Blue Sun's Zenith - I prefer stroke of genius because of the lower color cost.
Ponder - Although Ponder is quite good, I generally prefer the draw/discard type. But right now Impulse is in this spot, which I quite like for its instant speed and depth of effect.
Negate - a nice budge option. I'm currently running it in my paper deck.
Hinder - a little on the costly side. Commander bottom decking is pretty brutal though and maybe worth the extra cost.
Vesuva - You might be right. I've always hated lands that come into play tapped no matter what, but this can be nice to kill someone's legendary land or copy someone else's Ancient Tomb.
Mishra's Workshop - You could also be right about this one. Honestly, I'll probably never own one anyway.
Temporal Mastery - No, I don't ever want to be hard casting this, but the possibility of a turn 2 or 3 extra turn is pretty awesome and I think it's doable with the miracle set up cards in the deck.
Reforge the Soul - Time Reversal may indeed be better. I may end up including both because the draw 7s are so necessary.
Mindbreak Trap - granted, I haven't been able to playtest this that much. I just want as many potentially free counters as possible.
Reiterate - Honestly, I rarely use this to make infinite mana. There's usually an easier way to win, so you might be right.
In addition to above considerations, I've been eyeing a few other candidates for inclusion and removal.
On the chopping block:
Thran Dynamo - I'm beginning to think this is just a good budget alternative to Mana Crypt rather than completely necessary.
Past In Flames - I want to like this card so much, but the heavy cost usually means I'm only flashing back one or two things.
Leyline of Anticipation - Often this just doesn't have enough of an immediate effect on the game to be worth casting. I may indeed try Quicken again. Often it's only one or two cards that I really need to be casting at instant speed. Either a wheel effect or something like Devastation Tide.
Scroll Rack - It's bad when I don't have very many cards in hand, or have run out of library shuffling effects. It may be better to simply have another draw seven in this spot such as Time Reversal.
Long-Term Plans - Honestly I don't remember why I put this in. Costly tutor and doesn't even go to hand or top. The fact that it can grab any card is fairly nice though.
Curiosity or Ophidian Eye - I may end up taking out one of these to free up a spot. They are only good if Niv is in play and everyone hates them, lol.
Candidates for Testing:
Standstill - Can stall the game while I build up my land count or just draw 3 for 1U. Seems pretty awesome all round.
I've been wanting to main deck one more solid board wipe card. I like All is Dust, Evacuation, Starstorm, or Blasphemous Act. While All is Dust is the perfect answer to color locking and gets rid of a lot of stuff, Evacuation combos with my handcycling. I like the cycling effect on Starstorm (and the new art) and wiping out everything for just R is amazing for Blasphemous Act. They all have their merits.
Borrowing 100,000 Arrows - I'm always looking for new ways to draw lots of cards, and this seems like an awesome answer to creature hordes. If only it were an instant.
Plagiarize - 3U is a bit on the heavy side but casting this before hand cycling - especially Winds of Change would be devastating. Being an instant means you can can cast in response to someone else's draw effect.
MY PRIMER ON NIV-MIZZET, THE FIREMIND, MY CUSTOM CARDS ON DEVIANTART
My other decks:
Kaalia of the Vast: Certified Air Raid Material
Prossh, Skyraider of Kher: NOM NOM NOM!
Aurelia, the Warleader: Warclamp
Another possible option for Shattering Spree is Vandalblast: it's still tutorable by Dizzy Spell, has the option of taking out one threat at a low cost, but has a larger scale option as well.
A question: I can't really afford Capture and Temporal Manipulation; should I replace them with less efficient time walk effects or with other spells?
@CaptainLoquacious: Glad you liked the primer! Vandalblast is definitely a great card in Commander. I have yet to decide if it's really better than Shattering Spree in this deck though.
Instead of Capture and Temporal you could try Stitch in Time, Time Stretch (better if you have Dream Halls in play haha), or even Temporal Mastery (miracle is easy to set up with Mystical Tutor, Brainstorm, and Mystic Speculation in the deck.) or possibly Walk the Aeons.
MY PRIMER ON NIV-MIZZET, THE FIREMIND, MY CUSTOM CARDS ON DEVIANTART
My other decks:
Kaalia of the Vast: Certified Air Raid Material
Prossh, Skyraider of Kher: NOM NOM NOM!
Aurelia, the Warleader: Warclamp
Banefire is a no-brainer substitute for 1v1. A lot of people would actually just sit back and wait for your kill spell thinking that saving their counterspells at the last possible moment would stop you cold. The looks on people's faces as you remind them about Banefire being uncounterable makes playing this deck so worth it.
On another note, how about giving Quicken a try? It replaces itself and casting many of your sorceries in this list at instant speed is downright wrong.
The cheap hand improvement cards like Faithless Looting and Careful Study should help you recover from a bad mulligan and less than ideal draws during those first few turns. That's a big reason why they're there. It takes a good deal of experience to know what to pitch and what to keep. You can mulligan down to 2 lands, an Izzet Signet, and a Wheel of Fortune if you need to.
Lol @ Banefire. I typically rely on my own counters like Pact of Negation and Force of Will to get my combos through. If they get countered, I have back up plans. This deck doesn't even need Niv to win.
Quicken... I've definitely considered it. It's good but doesn't seem essential enough to justify a spot. I might give it another try though. I really like how it synergizes with counterspells and my bigger draw spells. It would be nasty to Quicken a Show and Tell or a Time Reversal effect (of which I have plenty). + the Cantrip truly makes it awesome since I can just cycle it if I don't have a good sorcery in hand. I'm debating whether I should use Quicken over Leyline of Anticipation or even Vedalken Orrey. I mean it's very efficient and I like the surprise aspect but you can only use it once (maybe more with Snapcaster). Leyline and Orrey are permanent effects.
MY PRIMER ON NIV-MIZZET, THE FIREMIND, MY CUSTOM CARDS ON DEVIANTART
My other decks:
Kaalia of the Vast: Certified Air Raid Material
Prossh, Skyraider of Kher: NOM NOM NOM!
Aurelia, the Warleader: Warclamp
-1 Preordain +1 Quicken - Pretty solid swap I think. Quicken grants me a lot of utility I've realized - including 1. Leaving my lands untapped for counters and instant removal. 2. Casting big draw spells such as Recurring Insight and not having to discard right away. 3. Handcycling just before my turn so that my opponents don't get the first benefit. I just don't like the use once aspect of it. I'm considering Leyline of Anticipation or Vedalken Orrery as well.
-1 Capture of Jingzhou +1 Temporal Mastery - Figured I would try to miracle cost cast this. With the addition of Personal Tutor I have a lot of ways to set it up.
-1 Time Warp +1 Past in Flames I really wanted to give this a try. Past in Flames gives me a lot of added value I think. I think that 3 extra turn cards is pretty sufficient. Time Warp is the weakest of my extra turn cards simply because it can be Swerved.
-1 Tezzeret the Seeker +1 Show and Tell - Show and Tell is really evil. It allows me to get Dream Halls or even Omniscience (if I choose to add it) out even quicker, making turn 1 wins much more likely. Other awesome "targets" would be Thought Reflection, Consecrated Sphinx, or Gilded Lotus. The only drawback is that it has a very narrow window of usefullness (first 2-3 turns). Tezzeret just seems a bit underpowered compared to the rest of the deck. He's good for establishing board position but he's also an obvious threat. I usually only get 1 or 2 turns to use him. Generally I dislike planeswalkers in this deck.
-1 Time Reversal +1 Personal Tutor - Personal Tutor allows me a bit more flexibility as well as increased likelihood of getting miracle cost castings. I really like the idea of a turn 2 (with ramp) Temporal Mastery or Reforge the Soul or the added security of being able to grab Devastation Tide when I need it. Time Reversal is the weakest of my draw sevens. It feels a bit redundant.
I feel like one more counter would really round out that aspect of the deck. I'm considering Forbid, Foil Mindbreak Trap, Counterflux, Arcane Denial, or Memory Lapse. I would probably swap it for Enter the Infinite or Thran Dynamo.
Looking Ahead to Dragon's Maze:
Of the spoiled cards so far, I think only 2 warrant discussion.
Ral Zarek - Obviously very powerful. The untap ability means that he doesn't hurt your tempo too badly since you can untap the Sol Ring used to cast him. If he survives for 3 turns after that, you get the possibility of FIVE extra turns, but statistically 2-3. Overall pretty nice but does he really get us closer to our goal of drawing our library by turn 6 at the latest? He's also a walker, which I cannot easily protect for the long hull.
Melek, Izzet Paragon - This is essentially an Izzet version of Oracle of Mul Daya. But unlike Oracle, he costs 6 and doesn't filter our lands or provide ramp. He doesn't really offer us enough of an immediate advantage like Thought Reflection, Consecrated Sphinx, or Dream Halls which are similarly costed. This is more of a build around card I think that would probably make a better commander if anything.
MY PRIMER ON NIV-MIZZET, THE FIREMIND, MY CUSTOM CARDS ON DEVIANTART
My other decks:
Kaalia of the Vast: Certified Air Raid Material
Prossh, Skyraider of Kher: NOM NOM NOM!
Aurelia, the Warleader: Warclamp
MY PRIMER ON NIV-MIZZET, THE FIREMIND, MY CUSTOM CARDS ON DEVIANTART
My other decks:
Kaalia of the Vast: Certified Air Raid Material
Prossh, Skyraider of Kher: NOM NOM NOM!
Aurelia, the Warleader: Warclamp
If your primary usage of the trap is to be a third copy of Force of Will, you might be better off using Misdirection. It's practically a free counter to anything that might hurt your combo and ensures that your shenanigans won't end up hurting you instead if someone plays redirection spells.
With a bit of luck, you hope to draw into cards that draw even more cards to keep Dream Halls from emptying your hand and increasing the amount of cards you see with Mind Moil. If you stack your library correctly, you'll be able to time your "reshuffle into library" effects like Timetwister to keep the combo going when your library is low on cards. Since Dream Halls makes you discard cards and not remove them from the game, you could potentially keep doing this until your opponents start throwing peanuts at you.
Personally, I have a lone Kozilek, Butcher of Truth in my deck for this purpose. I like the fact that he can also be an alternate win condition or added draw as a nice bonus.
@kite Misdirection is undoubtedly a great candidate with some amazing utility. I may sideboard it though for now until I can playtest Mindbreak Trap some more. I may end up putting them both in at some point if I feel like I need the control. If anything, I will use misdirection instead of mana drain for my paper deck.
MY PRIMER ON NIV-MIZZET, THE FIREMIND, MY CUSTOM CARDS ON DEVIANTART
My other decks:
Kaalia of the Vast: Certified Air Raid Material
Prossh, Skyraider of Kher: NOM NOM NOM!
Aurelia, the Warleader: Warclamp
So now, I must swap in something else in its place. Maybe Scroll Rack (to help with miracle). It combos nicely with fetchlands and tutors as well. It's incredibly efficient handcycling. I might also consider some more control such as Misdirection, or Time Stop, or an extra turn card.
I'm also strongly considering taking out Savor the Moment. It's just took weak. I don't have any planeswalkers to truly abuse it. I will probably swap in another 5 CMC extra turn card.
After playtesting, Quicken is out. :/ I swapped it for Leyline of Anticipation. It's just better in Commander. You can only use Quicken once or twice and Leyline is potentially free.
Just discovered Meditate. Seems really powerful. In combo with ramp, it's really good. It's also great for those sticky lategame situations where you just need answers.
MY PRIMER ON NIV-MIZZET, THE FIREMIND, MY CUSTOM CARDS ON DEVIANTART
My other decks:
Kaalia of the Vast: Certified Air Raid Material
Prossh, Skyraider of Kher: NOM NOM NOM!
Aurelia, the Warleader: Warclamp
With Tolaria West fetching the Cavern and Niv becoming a more consistent presence, perhaps combos around him could be more of a centerpiece to the deck rather than its sidearms. Tandem Lookout might even earn a slot here with an uncounterable Niv.
Sig by Self
I really like Quicken but I think it's place is in a some sort of storm based legacy deck. Or even a storm themed commander deck. The effect is just too small and momentary.
MY PRIMER ON NIV-MIZZET, THE FIREMIND, MY CUSTOM CARDS ON DEVIANTART
My other decks:
Kaalia of the Vast: Certified Air Raid Material
Prossh, Skyraider of Kher: NOM NOM NOM!
Aurelia, the Warleader: Warclamp
As you noticed in my thread, I haven't been playing the game heavily for quite some time now, so my list IS pretty old. I'll be making updates in the near future, so hopefully that will breathe some new life into the list! I'm going for a different theme than you - I aim for an unstoppable and resilient late-game, rather than a consistent, powerful, early win - so our lists complement one another quite well.
At any rate, a few card choices you, or others, might consider depending on their meta and the speed of their decks:
Flusterstorm - You seem to play lots of spells, so this is excellent protection.
Trinket Mage - Sooooo many targets
Jace, the Mind Sculptor - You might choose not to play him - but I really believe that any blue deck, especially focused around searching, dig, and card-draw, NEEDS to have an explanation for why he's not there.
Pithing Needle - Just something to keep in mind, if you're up against tricky decks.
Tolarian Winds - For a deck like yours, which focuses so heavily on self-generated card draw, this is 1cc cheaper than Windfall and can be played at instant speed.
Blue Sun's Zenith - Potential replacement for Stroke of Genius, if you think the color cost is worth it
Ponder
Negate
Hinder
Dissipate
- How does Vesuva treat you? My deck isn't designed to be as quick as yours, and even there it seemed to be dead weight most of the time.
- I'm a little unsure about Mishra's Workshop - seems to me like it's only useful for getting the Lotus or Dynamo out and is otherwise a very huge hit to tempo / waste of a land slot.
- How often does Temporal Mastery go off for its miracle cost? Regular old Time Warp sounds like the better choice if you're often winning on turns 3-8.... not much opportunity for Miracle to really save you that much cost.
- I have the same question with Reforge the Soul - how often do you ever cast it for Miracle cost, vs. it being dead weight? Would Time Reversal suit the slot better? You're already pretty hard in blue (easier cost to meet), and you get to recycle your hand / graveyard.
- I might be missing something about your meta (and I haven't had time to read through all 9 pages yet), but Mindbreak Trap seems narrow and costly.... I would pick Flusterstorm or Negate over it almost undoubtedly (especially because you win so quickly that you generally won't even care about not countering a single creature).
- Do you ever use buyback on Reiterate? If not, I'd swap it with Fork
- Boseiju is a double-edged sword if you're really shooting for tempo.... how has it worked out for you? It's often a thorn in my side, even with a slower deck, and I've been on the fence about removing it.
Awesome list, I really would like to try it sometime :D:thumbsup:
UR [PRIMER] Flash of the Firemind (Niv-Mizzet, the Firemind) RU
BG Death and Staxes: FireStorm4056's Competitive Meren Stax List GB
W Avacyn Angel of Hope W
R Akroma, Angel of (Your Opponent's) Fury R
R 99-Mountain Ashling R
Foil is a good substitute for Mindbreak Trap as well. With all the acceleration, it seems easy enough to hold on to that one Island for when you decide to break out any of this deck's combos with counter backup.
MY PRIMER ON NIV-MIZZET, THE FIREMIND, MY CUSTOM CARDS ON DEVIANTART
My other decks:
Kaalia of the Vast: Certified Air Raid Material
Prossh, Skyraider of Kher: NOM NOM NOM!
Aurelia, the Warleader: Warclamp
http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/nekusar-wheeling-pain/?cat=type
Yeah, I've used the crawler before. His global effect is indeed quite powerful but he just eats removal almost every time due to being an artifact creature and such an obvious threat. The bottom line I think is that he's just "win more". At 5 cmc I never want him in my opening hand so that really limits his usefulness. Besides, I already have a lot of other routes to victory.
If you need more board sweepers you can certainly add them. Devastation Tide and Cyclonic Rift have been enough for me since I can easily tutor or hand cycle for them when needed.
MY PRIMER ON NIV-MIZZET, THE FIREMIND, MY CUSTOM CARDS ON DEVIANTART
My other decks:
Kaalia of the Vast: Certified Air Raid Material
Prossh, Skyraider of Kher: NOM NOM NOM!
Aurelia, the Warleader: Warclamp
Inclusion?
Flusterstorm - I do like it a lot. It's a perfect defensive counter, however much less useful offensively.
Trinket Mage - Yes, this is definitely going in. Worth it to get Sol Ring or Mana Crypt early on.
Jace, the Mind Sculptor - I don't use Planeswalkers because I often can't protect them for more than a couple turns. If they are any good (Jace is amazingly good) they are huge targets. Often I am paying 2UU just for a Brainstorm or an Unsummon.
Pithing Needle - Typically, Force of Will is my answer to tricky decks. Either that or Chaos Warp. They've rarely failed me, however Pithing Needle is indeed a great sideboard card if you need it.
Tolarian Winds - Trying this out now. It seems quite good. I just don't like how it doesn't combo with Consecrated Sphinx.
Blue Sun's Zenith - I prefer stroke of genius because of the lower color cost.
Ponder - Although Ponder is quite good, I generally prefer the draw/discard type. But right now Impulse is in this spot, which I quite like for its instant speed and depth of effect.
Negate - a nice budge option. I'm currently running it in my paper deck.
Hinder - a little on the costly side. Commander bottom decking is pretty brutal though and maybe worth the extra cost.
Dissipate - Costly without enough benefit IMO.
Removal?
Vesuva - You might be right. I've always hated lands that come into play tapped no matter what, but this can be nice to kill someone's legendary land or copy someone else's Ancient Tomb.
Mishra's Workshop - You could also be right about this one. Honestly, I'll probably never own one anyway.
Temporal Mastery - No, I don't ever want to be hard casting this, but the possibility of a turn 2 or 3 extra turn is pretty awesome and I think it's doable with the miracle set up cards in the deck.
Reforge the Soul - Time Reversal may indeed be better. I may end up including both because the draw 7s are so necessary.
Mindbreak Trap - granted, I haven't been able to playtest this that much. I just want as many potentially free counters as possible.
Reiterate - Honestly, I rarely use this to make infinite mana. There's usually an easier way to win, so you might be right.
In addition to above considerations, I've been eyeing a few other candidates for inclusion and removal.
On the chopping block:
Thran Dynamo - I'm beginning to think this is just a good budget alternative to Mana Crypt rather than completely necessary.
Past In Flames - I want to like this card so much, but the heavy cost usually means I'm only flashing back one or two things.
Leyline of Anticipation - Often this just doesn't have enough of an immediate effect on the game to be worth casting. I may indeed try Quicken again. Often it's only one or two cards that I really need to be casting at instant speed. Either a wheel effect or something like Devastation Tide.
Scroll Rack - It's bad when I don't have very many cards in hand, or have run out of library shuffling effects. It may be better to simply have another draw seven in this spot such as Time Reversal.
Long-Term Plans - Honestly I don't remember why I put this in. Costly tutor and doesn't even go to hand or top. The fact that it can grab any card is fairly nice though.
Curiosity or Ophidian Eye - I may end up taking out one of these to free up a spot. They are only good if Niv is in play and everyone hates them, lol.
Candidates for Testing:
Standstill - Can stall the game while I build up my land count or just draw 3 for 1U. Seems pretty awesome all round.
I've been wanting to main deck one more solid board wipe card. I like All is Dust, Evacuation, Starstorm, or Blasphemous Act. While All is Dust is the perfect answer to color locking and gets rid of a lot of stuff, Evacuation combos with my handcycling. I like the cycling effect on Starstorm (and the new art) and wiping out everything for just R is amazing for Blasphemous Act. They all have their merits.
Borrowing 100,000 Arrows - I'm always looking for new ways to draw lots of cards, and this seems like an awesome answer to creature hordes. If only it were an instant.
Plagiarize - 3U is a bit on the heavy side but casting this before hand cycling - especially Winds of Change would be devastating. Being an instant means you can can cast in response to someone else's draw effect.
MY PRIMER ON NIV-MIZZET, THE FIREMIND, MY CUSTOM CARDS ON DEVIANTART
My other decks:
Kaalia of the Vast: Certified Air Raid Material
Prossh, Skyraider of Kher: NOM NOM NOM!
Aurelia, the Warleader: Warclamp