These three together let you play all the lands you want since you will have a net gain of 1 life each land, and you will also be pinging your opponents with each land, or feeding cards like Baloth Woodcrasher or Avenger of Zendikar
It's not infinite, and can be somewhat easy to disrupt, but its really fun to pull it off to finish the job right after the throw all the lands out of my deck into the grave combo.
I will probably also include Elixir of Immortality as another shuffle graveyard card. Since I can sac it at instant speed, I can do it in response to drawing a card during the Snake Umbra + Borby + Abundance combo.
In other news looks like I should have a chance to get a game in tonight, we'll see.
EDIT: update
I got in one game last night, 5 player star game. From me, going around the table, Borborygmos, Doran, Sol'Kanaar, varloz, and Scion of Ur-Dragon. I wound up winning but it was a pretty tight game. I kept a 3 land hand that also had snake umbra, hunting wilds, khalni heart expedition, , groundskeeper. Despite this the next time I hit land was turn 6. Blaming the new deck shuffle here. The scion deck took just as long to use a pretty amazing opening hand because of no green. Doran came out strong early and consistently.
On the turn after I finally got Borborygmos on table, the scion player wheeled me out of snake umbra, and into an abundance, sprouting vines, storm cauldron plus land. I used a few land to blow up some threats on the Sol'Kanaar and varloz boards, and played storm cauldron and sprouting vines. Cauldron was blown up at end of my turn, then doran drops a sylvan primordial, Sol'Kanaar flounders on 3 lands (he uses into the core on cauldron and scion's gilded lotus), Varolz drops a sylvan primordial, scion fails to win after the into the core hit his gilded lotus, but he does wheel again. Between swinging in and throwing lands I had enough to kill Sol'Kanaar and Varolz players for the win.
Abundance (only feels good with snake umbra/ keen sense)
my shuffling?
I also cycled a land I should have played.
Taking till turn 7 to get borbor
I felt vulnerable often but the fact that this deck appears to do nothing early on actually helped me stay alive. It was fun, can't wait to see if I can get it to happen again a little more smoothly next time.
I was running Countryside Crusher for awhile, but it was hard to find a good time to stick him. Too early and, unless you have top deck manipulation or a land recursion engine, you are preventing yourself from drawing lands. Too late, and he really doesn't do much of anything. I only once found him a big enough threat to include and that was in a 1v1 game where I dropped him early and beat face pretty good until my opponent found removal. Terravore would be a better include in that slot although my worry with the Terravore is that he essentially reads, "exile my graveyard to make me useless". Often times our graveyard shenanigans are pretty harmless compared to the guy playing black, until we kill a player with our graveyard, so I don't really want to draw attention to that threat more than I already do. Grafted Exoskeleton is an easy include since, like a damage doubler, it makes Borbor out of nowhere. 4 Lands at a players face is game. I'm not sure why I'm not running it other than players seem to groan when infect happens.
This deck could probably use Riftsweeper as a way to return key cards to the mix, but honestly, I'd rather just run another win condition. Since Rift Sweeper doesn't put the card into your hand, it's going to require the sweeper AND a tutor to even see that card one more time.
I ran the Treefolk and found him underwhelming. You've clearly never cast Horn of Greed on turn 3 after you've stuck Azusa and Exploration. In one of the best cards in the deck for drawing gas and can do some broken things early in games if players aren't ready for it.
I'm thinking about cutting Sakura Tribe Elder for Cultivate since the body isn't normally relevant and I'd rather get 2 lands.
Greater Good might be able to do some work, but we don't run a ton of creatures worth Sac'ing to it. I'd really love Hunter's Insight if it didn't say "Combat Damage".
I got in one game last night, 5 player star game. From me, going around the table, Borborygmos, Doran, Sol'Kanaar, varloz, and Scion of Ur-Dragon. I wound up winning but it was a pretty tight game. I kept a 3 land hand that also had snake umbra, hunting wilds, khalni heart expedition, , groundskeeper. Despite this the next time I hit land was turn 6. Blaming the new deck shuffle here. The scion deck took just as long to use a pretty amazing opening hand because of no green. Doran came out strong early and consistently.
On the turn after I finally got Borborygmos on table, the scion player wheeled me out of snake umbra, and into an abundance, sprouting vines, storm cauldron plus land. I used a few land to blow up some threats on the Sol'Kanaar and varloz boards, and played storm cauldron and sprouting vines. Cauldron was blown up at end of my turn, then doran drops a sylvan primordial, Sol'Kanaar flounders on 3 lands (he uses into the core on cauldron and scion's gilded lotus), Varolz drops a sylvan primordial, scion fails to win after the into the core hit his gilded lotus, but he does wheel again. Between swinging in and throwing lands I had enough to kill Sol'Kanaar and Varolz players for the win.
Abundance (only feels good with snake umbra/ keen sense)
my shuffling?
I also cycled a land I should have played.
Taking till turn 7 to get borbor
I felt vulnerable often but the fact that this deck appears to do nothing early on actually helped me stay alive. It was fun, can't wait to see if I can get it to happen again a little more smoothly next time.
Thanks for the report! In your conclusion, you say you felt vulnerable. I think that should be a feeling you get used to. Borbor is going to require you to very smoothly parlay players into attacking each other instead of you. Borbor is not the threat until he suddenly wins and we can use that to our advantage most of the time. Players might attack you 'cause you're pretty weak at the table, but generally they'll focus on the threat, which most certainly isn't us.
I've never used Dragon Mage but it does seem like it has potential for being able to wheel on a stick.
Groundskeeper - It's unfortunate that it ate removal, but you should expect that. Honestly, it's a workhorse, but not an important element of the deck. You should celebrate if someone wastes spot removal on it.
Abundance - Is an all-star pretty much all the time in every deck with Green. Being able to call Land or Non-Land on each of your draws makes sure that you always have a land drop when you need one or that you draw gas when your hand is full of lands. It seems kind of innocuous to most players, so unless it's getting abused somehow, its rarely remove until it's too late. I pretty much always cast it as soon as I see it unless I've got the combo pieces in hand.
Someone earlier mentioned Elixer of Immortality and I think that would be a good include here. Any deck that looks to be a target of a Bojuka Bog or Tormod's Crypt should probably run it just to protect themselves.
Expect a main post update and a list update sometime this week.
Sprouting Vines doesn't really have a place here since we mostly want to PLAY lands untill our one eyed hero sticks. After he sticks we usually don't have enough storm, so I'd cut it for maybe Explosive vegetation?
I'm running both here. While I agree vines is worthless as a ramp spell, and I agree we frequently don't have a significant storm count, I still like it because it's an instant, and I think it might not be so uncommon for people to build up a storm count for us. If an opponent plays two spells in a turn and we cast vines, that's 3 lightning bolts out of nowhere. I'm going to leave it in a while longer.
I need a better "dont attack me" strategy since I'm usually open for attacks and it's hard to coerce someone into attacking someone who has defense when Edric, spymaster is sitting somewhere.... Anyone got some tips?
Sprouting Vines doesn't really have a place here since we mostly want to PLAY lands untill our one eyed hero sticks. After he sticks we usually don't have enough storm, so I'd cut it for maybe Explosive vegetation?
I think i am going to only keep blasphemous act and destructive force. blasphemous act just has better cast efficiency; and it's unlikely that i will ever need more than 13 damage. wildfire is nice, but for one more mana more damage and LD makes more sense. if i was worried about mana cost, it would because i got land screwed; which is near impossible for this deck. being able to hinder all you opponents who will recover about half as fast (since we draw lands/ramp more than they will) feels essential to the games we can't rush the combo.
i'm also wondering about planar portal; or the new, but worse ring of three wishes. they are equivalent mana spending for the first card, so if you use to find the win it may be worthwhile.
Weenie decks are always going to be a problem for us. Borbor runs similarly to a creature-light combo deck, so a player with lots of little guys attacking for incremental gain hurts, but as long as you're not getting killed it's less of a problem than you think. You can go the Kazuul, Tyrant of the Cliffs route, but I honestly think the best answers are run a few more board sweepers and just keep the board nice and clean for everyone until it's time for a big play. Garruk, Wildspeaker is also an effective way to generate blockers. I don't think a wall is what we want.
@ironclawbuyzzardiar
I hadn't thought about casting Sprouting Vines on your opponents turn. Seems like it would be quite easy to get a storm count at 3 or better later in the game, but I'm worried at that point there would be better spells to have in hand. I would still rank it under Cultivate, Kodama's Reach, Skyshroud Claim and Far Wanderings for ramp spells in our deck.
@SamuraiMunky
Thanks for the feedback on the sweepers. I'm likely going to add Destructive Force and see how it works out for me. As much as we want to be able to tutor, I think the mana investment for both Planar Portal and the new three wishes ring are simply too high to find a single card. I'm sure we can find the mana, but I'd rather just run additional win-cons that fragile, expensive ways to find them.
In a 5 player game Garruk just ain't gonna cut it. + Kazuul might make countering Borybory harder/something to think about for opponents.
Not sure I have an answer in the context of a 5 player game. You could try some land-centric life gain to keep yourself in the game ala Grazing Gladeheart or Zuran Orb. Glacial Chasm makes attacking you not terribly profitable. Honestly, dropping a turn 5 Avenger of Zendikar usually gives me all the blockers I ever need. I just haven't run in to the issue of being killed before I've got answers. Seismic Assault laughs in the face of Weenie decks as well.
I believe the best card in the deck for BORBOR is life from the loam.
greater good allows you to get to the loam engine faster. Everytime they wrath and you have any creatures out. Your general is draw 7 keep the best 4 if they try to remove it.
If you haven't played with loam much not everybody sees the cycling engine.
Draw loam, mill 3.
Cast loam return one or more cycling lands.
cycle land draw a card-or- draw loam, mill 3.
This means for 2 mana, cast loam. Spit 2 lands for 6 damage. Cycle a tranquil thicket for 1 and return loam to your hand. 3 mana 6 damage no card cost.
I just built this deck with loam, hermit druid, dredge and greater good. It is pretty unstoppable. (except with gy hate) Just make sure you run recollect, regrowth effects.
I played a version of this deck for a while, you might want to try orkish lumberjack, turn 2 borby against a deck that isn't ready for it is pretty nice
I threw this guy in my deck and haven't seen him yet, but I realized I'm not sure how he gets T2 borborygmos. When I initially saw your post I was thinking he could come down turn one off a taiga or stomping grounds then t2 play forest and sac both forests for 8 mana. But when I just reread the card I noticed lumberjack has to tap to sac each forest. What am I missing?
Regardless, I still think he's worth it to get a borborygmos 3 turns early.
I threw this guy in my deck and haven't seen him yet, but I realized I'm not sure how he gets T2 borborygmos. When I initially saw your post I was thinking he could come down turn one off a taiga or stomping grounds then t2 play forest and sac both forests for 8 mana. But when I just reread the card I noticed lumberjack has to tap to sac each forest. What am I missing?
Regardless, I still think he's worth it to get a borborygmos 3 turns early.
Yeah, I'm not quite sure how he gets it on turn 2 either, but it's easy on turn 3.
Again, let me know how he works out for you, I played him several times and was always kind of underwhelmed by it. I also don't really rush out Borbor. This deck really isn't ready to play archenemy from turn 3, so often it'll have a small-ish impact for him to hit the board and then he'll get tucked or exiled and you've potentially fallen quite a bit behind if you don't have Life from the Loam, ramp or some kind of land recursion going on. If I can cast him quick without setting my land count back any, I will though.
I just found budoka gardener in a friends binder, nice ramp and defense to build up.
Gardener certainly looks fun, I think I'd be surprised if he ever lived to activate his ability on his flipped side, but still fun.
Looking through a bunch of cards for a possible Dune-Brood Nephilim voltron/stax build I found Scouting Trek which looks about as good as Abundance for a combo with Snake/Sense. Any thoughts?
Gardener certainly looks fun, I think I'd be surprised if he ever lived to activate his ability on his flipped side, but still fun.
Looking through a bunch of cards for a possible Dune-Brood Nephilim voltron/stax build I found Scouting Trek which looks about as good as Abundance for a combo with Snake/Sense. Any thoughts?
The gardener is probably better than Walking Atlas, so that's something.
Scouting Trek seems cool, but I worry that it's really only useful in that one instance where you could combo, but are missing Abundance. I worry that it's not quite versatile enough to be part of the 99.
Got another game in last night. 3 player game against Krenko, Mob Boss and Teysa, Envoy of Ghosts. Krenko came out super hard and fast, I got a turn 5, borborygmos which killed Krenko himself then ate a Mortify. I threw out a 7/7 Primordial Hydra the next turn which forced a Shivan Meteor. Krenko then swung a pile of goblins one way and a smaller pile that included a Goblin Piledriver at me for 27 total. I chose to take it rather than block 23 with Oracle. I think this play was correct, because the oracle allowed me to get to a place where I was able to take out the krenko player by playing and flashing back Creeping with 7 lands in the yard. (He was still at 40 at this point) I was able to control Teysa's board for a minute but he had a Gravepact that I really had no way of dealing with (not to mention enough other enchantments that it cost 7 and then 8 to attack him and he was getting 6 free mana a turn.) I never hit enough power (a storm cauldron or praetor's council would have won me the game) to finish him though.
+
I ramped pretty awesomely with a Khalni Heart, followed by Exploration, and then Exploding Veggies. Oracle of Mul Daya and Orcish Lumbejack came down later. A later game Lumberjack actually did some work for me, being able to let me play some pretty expensive stuff and still attack against the enchantments in the same turns, plus he was fodder for the gravepact.
I did 42 damage in one turn in the face of certain defeat.
-
I need a couple more answers in my deck. Particularly board wipe and enchantment/ artifact hate. I'm thinking I need to track down an All Is Dust because it could have dealt with either or both of the decks I faced. Creature control is less important because Borbss is good at that but here is more mass enchantment hate. that I might try to squeeze in.
I also Gambled early for a Snake Umbra. I think I assume that either Umbra or Keen Sense is always the target to go for, but it didn't really do a whole lot this game. Would have rather had a storm cauldron or Praetor's.
Got another game in last night. 3 player game against Krenko, Mob Boss and Teysa, Envoy of Ghosts. Krenko came out super hard and fast, I got a turn 5, borborygmos which killed Krenko himself then ate a Mortify. I threw out a 7/7 Primordial Hydra the next turn which forced a Shivan Meteor. Krenko then swung a pile of goblins one way and a smaller pile that included a Goblin Piledriver at me for 27 total. I chose to take it rather than block 23 with Oracle. I think this play was correct, because the oracle allowed me to get to a place where I was able to take out the krenko player by playing and flashing back Creeping with 7 lands in the yard. (He was still at 40 at this point) I was able to control Teysa's board for a minute but he had a Gravepact that I really had no way of dealing with (not to mention enough other enchantments that it cost 7 and then 8 to attack him and he was getting 6 free mana a turn.) I never hit enough power (a storm cauldron or praetor's council would have won me the game) to finish him though.
+
I ramped pretty awesomely with a Khalni Heart, followed by Exploration, and then Exploding Veggies. Oracle of Mul Daya and Orcish Lumbejack came down later. A later game Lumberjack actually did some work for me, being able to let me play some pretty expensive stuff and still attack against the enchantments in the same turns, plus he was fodder for the gravepact.
I did 42 damage in one turn in the face of certain defeat.
-
I need a couple more answers in my deck. Particularly board wipe and enchantment/ artifact hate. I'm thinking I need to track down an All Is Dust because it could have dealt with either or both of the decks I faced. Creature control is less important because Borbss is good at that but here is more mass enchantment hate. that I might try to squeeze in.
I also Gambled early for a Snake Umbra. I think I assume that either Umbra or Keen Sense is always the target to go for, but it didn't really do a whole lot this game. Would have rather had a storm cauldron or Praetor's.
Thanks again for the report. I think you were right not to block there as well. If it doesn't kill you, I usually just leave it be.
We've discussed quite a few board wipes up above, so take a look. I'm a huge fan of Chain Reaction. As for dealing with enchantments, I prefer more versatile solutions that can deal with any permanent. If your deck doesn't run Chaos Warp, Beast Within and Acidic Slime those are a pretty good place to start. Krosan Grip is a solid target artifact or enchantment option. Hull Breach is serviceable as is Desert Twister honestly. I've also been thinking about trying Decimate since you can get so much value out of it. It sounds like Teysa was simply pillowforting, which should be easy to overcome by killing that player with something other than combat damage.
I find Gamble to be exceedingly hard to use in this deck. You're almost forced to use it on the first or second turn since your odds of discarding the card you tutored for go way up after. On turn 1, I usually find myself looking for Oracle of Mul-Daya, Azusa, Lost but Seeking, Horn of Greed or Exploration if I have no combo pieces. If it's past turn 2, I almost always go get Life from the Loam. It's almost better if you discard it so you can get the dredge train rolling. The only time I go get a combo piece is if I have the other one in hand. An opening hand with Abundance or Keen Sense usually encourages me to go get the other.
I'm running hull breach, chaos warp, and beast within already. Might throw the slime in as well, or maybe the similar Woodfall Primus. Was also thinking about Artifact Mutation as a source of chump blockers.
As far as sundial goes, I find that by the time I really need/ want draw, I'm not dropping many lands into play.
It's a one-sided sort of Horn of Greed . It's not exactly the most exciting card, but it could certainly do work over a longer game. Try it out and let me know if it works for you.
Artifact Mutation might have a place as both a targeted removal spell and a source of chump blockers, but I think I'd rather have more options for targets and forgo the extra blockers. I wish they'd just print a version of that card with artifact or enchantment targets instead of having them be two cards.
I made some changes today and played some 1 on 1 games to varying degrees of success. Mostly, I aquired an Inkmoth Nexus for yet another way to win with a land. Can't wait to live the dream and Rubblehulk the Nexus for the win.
I got in a couple 1v1 games vs my own Karona Zombies tribal, 1 win, 1 loss. Almost lost to mill before being able to get enough land thrown for the win. Game 2 got spot removed first casting, then after the second casting lost borbs to a living death. Karona powered up 5 zombies, including one wielding Mage Slayer for lethal. I would have flash backed creeping the next turn for the win.
Mage Slayer might be decent in our deck I reckon. Giant Adafage was fun, hasn't seen him yet. I've been running Howling Mine, Rite of Flourishing, and Anvil of Bogardan. Anvil came out in one of these games and was great. There was always something I wouldn't mind in the grave, so it felt like it was better than just extra card draw, which is already great. Makes me wonder about Tibalt, the Fiend-Blooded. Might try it out, see if some eyes pop (o_0)
I'm doing quite a bit of testing in my deck right now. Here are the cards I'm working with.
Far Wanderings Explore - Have cast it once and loved it. It's essentially rampant growth because of our land count and it's awesome that it filters even a single card. Also works magic with Horn of Greed in play. Destructive Force - Cast it once in 1v1 and my opponent scooped immediately. Pretty brutal if you cast it on turn 5 after we've ramped to 8 or 10 lands. Zhur-Taa Druid Ruric Thar, the Unbowed
I'll be continuing to give results on these guys. They aren't permanent changes, so the main list hasn't been updated for them yet.
In other news, REAL changes because I finally got my hands on them.
I got in a couple 1v1 games vs my own Karona Zombies tribal, 1 win, 1 loss. Almost lost to mill before being able to get enough land thrown for the win. Game 2 got spot removed first casting, then after the second casting lost borbs to a living death. Karona powered up 5 zombies, including one wielding Mage Slayer for lethal. I would have flash backed creeping the next turn for the win.
Mage Slayer might be decent in our deck I reckon. Giant Adafage was fun, hasn't seen him yet. I've been running Howling Mine, Rite of Flourishing, and Anvil of Bogardan. Anvil came out in one of these games and was great. There was always something I wouldn't mind in the grave, so it felt like it was better than just extra card draw, which is already great. Makes me wonder about Tibalt, the Fiend-Blooded. Might try it out, see if some eyes pop (o_0)
I haven't really thought too hard about running the extra draw stuff. My biggest concern, is giving players more threats or answers than I have since the combo is so fragile. I'll have to mull on it.
I got a few games in and repeatedly failed to draw any of the cards I was testing aside from Explore. I'm still enjoying that card quite a lot. My experiences were both good and bad. Here are my bits and musings.
Game 1 vs Rith, Rhys and Doran.
The Doran was of little importance throughout the game. Rhys and Rith both did their token-y thing, but I managed to stick Borbor and Snake Umbra. The next turn I dropped Storm Cauldron, picked up a chunk of lands and tried to end the game. I managed to kill the Rhys player, who's response was "I've never seen anything like that before", and I stalled out in trying to take out the Rith player. I hit Reforge the Soul, but only drew one land in the process. He managed to squeak out just enough damage to kill me the next turn.
Game 2 vs Sharuum, Kira and Jarad
Lots of back and forth with Kira and Sharuum mostly trading the archenemy status back and forth through the game. The game technically ended on a player not paying attention and failing to counter a spell that would put Lord of Extinction into play with Jarad. I talked everyone into continuing just for fun, and it seemed lame to let the game end on that note, and the game went my way afterwards. Ended up winning through Keen Sense and Abundance.
Game 3 vs Sharuum, Niv Mizzet and Jarad
Not a lot to report here. Niv ended up with a Darksteel Forge and Neverynl's Disk the turn before I could combo off with Borbor. Was still one turn from winning which felt pretty good.
Game 4 vs Sharuum, Bruna and Kresh
Here is where my frustration settled in. Both Bruna and Kresh were playing really REALLY mediocre decks. I'm pretty sure I saw a Luminous Arc cast at some point. I misplayed Memory Jar and ended up with both Keen Sense and Snake Umbra in the yard, and I couldn't find a new route to victory. I managed to Scapeshift the Sharuum player down to 12, but no one could find a way to kill him other than me, so he just Mindslavered me every turn.
Notes to myself. The deck needs more card draw, more filtering and probably some more recursion. It also, desperately needs ways to interact with opponents problem permanents. I'll be doing a pretty hefty rebuild sometime soon to try and address some of these problems.
Woodfall Primus or Terastadon are ways of getting rid of the noncreature permanents. My meta has a Captain Sisay player (whose deck is 90% complete, but I can't deal with indestructible creatures or permanents because he usually tutors for Avacyn and I literally cannot interact with my opponents permanents, which is 75% of the time a problem because he also has Gaddick Teeg -_-
But I'll soon post my deck and a couple of wants for it because I'm about 85-90% done on my build (and I'm trying out new things as I discover them).
But as an aside, my meta consists of Animar, Glissa, Damia, Kresh, Ghave, Mimeoplasm, Isperia (RTR), Captain Sisay, Phelidagrif, Bruna, Intet, Merike, Mayael, and two Sliver players. I've got a very diverse meta, but I typically play the graveyard players so I was planning on adding a Relic of Progentitus to my deck.
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Current Roster Standard GBWJunk ReanimatorWBG EDH BShirei, Shizo's CaretakerB RGBorborygmos EnragedGR
I played the other night against a grixis underworld dreams draw pain style deck, a Jarad deck, and a Ruric Thar deck. The grixis player had an anvil of Bogardan and a horn of greed by turn 3 and life was good! Life totals were ground down quickly by the grixis deck and a borbor + bracers won me the game despite some misplays of counting mana that would have won me the game earlier. Was able to respond to multiple threats by killing the threats or the players in response.
What I took away
-Extra draw wins games. I need a horn of my own.
-Orcish Lumberjack is amazing when undealt with. I used it at least 4 times in this game to power out big plays. Considering adding Goblin Clearcutter.
-Oracle of Mul Daya continues to be amazing, to nobody's surprise. Especially when Exploration and Horn of Greed are in play.
-many of my wins would have been losses without a big threat coming down the turn before borbor. This game it was my Dragon Mage eating a Vraska minus. (I then got to revenge Vraska with my Oracle, which was great). Anyway, I highly recommend having a few 7ish drops to force removal.
Alfindeol, I'm pretty much in the same boat of being ready to hibernate my deck and get some changes in. Acid, do you run Lignify? I had a blast lignify ing an avacyn once. Looking for room in this deck for a copy.
Lastly, I'm not currently running any scapeshift effect, but for those of you who are, anyone thinking of running the new Dark Depths / Thespian's Stage interaction?
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Fastbond is banned in EDH unfortunately...
Of the landfall cards, the only other one I have considered is Rampaging Baloths because it runs similarly to a second Avenger of Zendikar.
R Norin the Wary: I've Got a Bad Feeling About This
UG Thrasios & Kydele: Knowledge is Power
RG Borborygmos Enraged: The Breaking of the World
BG The Gitrog Monster: All Glory to the Hypnotoad
WUR Zedruu the Greathearted: Endless Possibilities, One Outcome
WBG Karador, Ghost Chieftain: What's Dead May Never Die
Turn your junk into something great with PucaTrade!
I agree with adding strip mine and the like.( especially dustbowl)
I think momentous fall or greater good and hunters insight fit
For protection I might run rift sweeper to get back life from the loam.
kodamas reach and cultivate are lightning bolt + rampant growths. Possibly tilling treefolk
I think pilgrims eye , hord of greed , harrow , and rites of spring are your easiest cuts.
Ah, was not aware Fastbond was banned, so looks like i'll be sticking with only 4 of the landfall cards:
Avenger of Zendikar
Rampaging Baloths
Grazing Gladeheart
Cosi's Ravager
I will probably also include Elixir of Immortality as another shuffle graveyard card. Since I can sac it at instant speed, I can do it in response to drawing a card during the Snake Umbra + Borby + Abundance combo.
Decks:
> Commander:
:symw::symu::symb::symr::symg:Scion of the Ur-Dragon (Dragon Tribal)
borborygmi
wiki
Cavotta article
In other news looks like I should have a chance to get a game in tonight, we'll see.
EDIT: update
I got in one game last night, 5 player star game. From me, going around the table, Borborygmos, Doran, Sol'Kanaar, varloz, and Scion of Ur-Dragon. I wound up winning but it was a pretty tight game. I kept a 3 land hand that also had snake umbra, hunting wilds, khalni heart expedition, , groundskeeper. Despite this the next time I hit land was turn 6. Blaming the new deck shuffle here. The scion deck took just as long to use a pretty amazing opening hand because of no green. Doran came out strong early and consistently.
On the turn after I finally got Borborygmos on table, the scion player wheeled me out of snake umbra, and into an abundance, sprouting vines, storm cauldron plus land. I used a few land to blow up some threats on the Sol'Kanaar and varloz boards, and played storm cauldron and sprouting vines. Cauldron was blown up at end of my turn, then doran drops a sylvan primordial, Sol'Kanaar flounders on 3 lands (he uses into the core on cauldron and scion's gilded lotus), Varolz drops a sylvan primordial, scion fails to win after the into the core hit his gilded lotus, but he does wheel again. Between swinging in and throwing lands I had enough to kill Sol'Kanaar and Varolz players for the win.
What worked:
What Didn't:
[
- groundskeeper (played early, ate removal)
- Sprouting vines (only got me two, seems situational)
- Abundance (only feels good with snake umbra/ keen sense)
my shuffling?I also cycled a land I should have played.
Taking till turn 7 to get borbor
I felt vulnerable often but the fact that this deck appears to do nothing early on actually helped me stay alive. It was fun, can't wait to see if I can get it to happen again a little more smoothly next time.
I was running Countryside Crusher for awhile, but it was hard to find a good time to stick him. Too early and, unless you have top deck manipulation or a land recursion engine, you are preventing yourself from drawing lands. Too late, and he really doesn't do much of anything. I only once found him a big enough threat to include and that was in a 1v1 game where I dropped him early and beat face pretty good until my opponent found removal. Terravore would be a better include in that slot although my worry with the Terravore is that he essentially reads, "exile my graveyard to make me useless". Often times our graveyard shenanigans are pretty harmless compared to the guy playing black, until we kill a player with our graveyard, so I don't really want to draw attention to that threat more than I already do. Grafted Exoskeleton is an easy include since, like a damage doubler, it makes Borbor out of nowhere. 4 Lands at a players face is game. I'm not sure why I'm not running it other than players seem to groan when infect happens.
This deck could probably use Riftsweeper as a way to return key cards to the mix, but honestly, I'd rather just run another win condition. Since Rift Sweeper doesn't put the card into your hand, it's going to require the sweeper AND a tutor to even see that card one more time.
I ran the Treefolk and found him underwhelming. You've clearly never cast Horn of Greed on turn 3 after you've stuck Azusa and Exploration. In one of the best cards in the deck for drawing gas and can do some broken things early in games if players aren't ready for it.
I'm thinking about cutting Sakura Tribe Elder for Cultivate since the body isn't normally relevant and I'd rather get 2 lands.
Greater Good might be able to do some work, but we don't run a ton of creatures worth Sac'ing to it. I'd really love Hunter's Insight if it didn't say "Combat Damage".
Thanks for the report! In your conclusion, you say you felt vulnerable. I think that should be a feeling you get used to. Borbor is going to require you to very smoothly parlay players into attacking each other instead of you. Borbor is not the threat until he suddenly wins and we can use that to our advantage most of the time. Players might attack you 'cause you're pretty weak at the table, but generally they'll focus on the threat, which most certainly isn't us.
I've never used Dragon Mage but it does seem like it has potential for being able to wheel on a stick.
Groundskeeper - It's unfortunate that it ate removal, but you should expect that. Honestly, it's a workhorse, but not an important element of the deck. You should celebrate if someone wastes spot removal on it.
Sprouting Vines - I don't run it because I almost never have the storm count to make it relevant. I'd much rather run Cultivate or Kodama's Reach or a Rampant Growth creature.
Abundance - Is an all-star pretty much all the time in every deck with Green. Being able to call Land or Non-Land on each of your draws makes sure that you always have a land drop when you need one or that you draw gas when your hand is full of lands. It seems kind of innocuous to most players, so unless it's getting abused somehow, its rarely remove until it's too late. I pretty much always cast it as soon as I see it unless I've got the combo pieces in hand.
Someone earlier mentioned Elixer of Immortality and I think that would be a good include here. Any deck that looks to be a target of a Bojuka Bog or Tormod's Crypt should probably run it just to protect themselves.
Expect a main post update and a list update sometime this week.
R Norin the Wary: I've Got a Bad Feeling About This
UG Thrasios & Kydele: Knowledge is Power
RG Borborygmos Enraged: The Breaking of the World
BG The Gitrog Monster: All Glory to the Hypnotoad
WUR Zedruu the Greathearted: Endless Possibilities, One Outcome
WBG Karador, Ghost Chieftain: What's Dead May Never Die
Turn your junk into something great with PucaTrade!
I'm running both here. While I agree vines is worthless as a ramp spell, and I agree we frequently don't have a significant storm count, I still like it because it's an instant, and I think it might not be so uncommon for people to build up a storm count for us. If an opponent plays two spells in a turn and we cast vines, that's 3 lightning bolts out of nowhere. I'm going to leave it in a while longer.
kazuul, tyrant of the cliffs; been considering him.
i tested out wildfire and destructive force. I think one or the other is good, probably not both. Of course, i also ran blasphemous act and chain reaction.
I think i am going to only keep blasphemous act and destructive force. blasphemous act just has better cast efficiency; and it's unlikely that i will ever need more than 13 damage. wildfire is nice, but for one more mana more damage and LD makes more sense. if i was worried about mana cost, it would because i got land screwed; which is near impossible for this deck. being able to hinder all you opponents who will recover about half as fast (since we draw lands/ramp more than they will) feels essential to the games we can't rush the combo.
i'm also wondering about planar portal; or the new, but worse ring of three wishes. they are equivalent mana spending for the first card, so if you use to find the win it may be worthwhile.
My Blog - contains my decklists
Uril, The Miststalker
Frankie Peanuts - needs to move to multiplayer.
@Devildanger
Weenie decks are always going to be a problem for us. Borbor runs similarly to a creature-light combo deck, so a player with lots of little guys attacking for incremental gain hurts, but as long as you're not getting killed it's less of a problem than you think. You can go the Kazuul, Tyrant of the Cliffs route, but I honestly think the best answers are run a few more board sweepers and just keep the board nice and clean for everyone until it's time for a big play. Garruk, Wildspeaker is also an effective way to generate blockers. I don't think a wall is what we want.
@ironclawbuyzzardiar
I hadn't thought about casting Sprouting Vines on your opponents turn. Seems like it would be quite easy to get a storm count at 3 or better later in the game, but I'm worried at that point there would be better spells to have in hand. I would still rank it under Cultivate, Kodama's Reach, Skyshroud Claim and Far Wanderings for ramp spells in our deck.
@SamuraiMunky
Thanks for the feedback on the sweepers. I'm likely going to add Destructive Force and see how it works out for me. As much as we want to be able to tutor, I think the mana investment for both Planar Portal and the new three wishes ring are simply too high to find a single card. I'm sure we can find the mana, but I'd rather just run additional win-cons that fragile, expensive ways to find them.
R Norin the Wary: I've Got a Bad Feeling About This
UG Thrasios & Kydele: Knowledge is Power
RG Borborygmos Enraged: The Breaking of the World
BG The Gitrog Monster: All Glory to the Hypnotoad
WUR Zedruu the Greathearted: Endless Possibilities, One Outcome
WBG Karador, Ghost Chieftain: What's Dead May Never Die
Turn your junk into something great with PucaTrade!
Not sure I have an answer in the context of a 5 player game. You could try some land-centric life gain to keep yourself in the game ala Grazing Gladeheart or Zuran Orb. Glacial Chasm makes attacking you not terribly profitable. Honestly, dropping a turn 5 Avenger of Zendikar usually gives me all the blockers I ever need. I just haven't run in to the issue of being killed before I've got answers. Seismic Assault laughs in the face of Weenie decks as well.
R Norin the Wary: I've Got a Bad Feeling About This
UG Thrasios & Kydele: Knowledge is Power
RG Borborygmos Enraged: The Breaking of the World
BG The Gitrog Monster: All Glory to the Hypnotoad
WUR Zedruu the Greathearted: Endless Possibilities, One Outcome
WBG Karador, Ghost Chieftain: What's Dead May Never Die
Turn your junk into something great with PucaTrade!
greater good allows you to get to the loam engine faster. Everytime they wrath and you have any creatures out. Your general is draw 7 keep the best 4 if they try to remove it.
If you haven't played with loam much not everybody sees the cycling engine.
Draw loam, mill 3.
Cast loam return one or more cycling lands.
cycle land draw a card-or- draw loam, mill 3.
This means for 2 mana, cast loam. Spit 2 lands for 6 damage. Cycle a tranquil thicket for 1 and return loam to your hand. 3 mana 6 damage no card cost.
I just built this deck with loam, hermit druid, dredge and greater good. It is pretty unstoppable. (except with gy hate) Just make sure you run recollect, regrowth effects.
I threw this guy in my deck and haven't seen him yet, but I realized I'm not sure how he gets T2 borborygmos. When I initially saw your post I was thinking he could come down turn one off a taiga or stomping grounds then t2 play forest and sac both forests for 8 mana. But when I just reread the card I noticed lumberjack has to tap to sac each forest. What am I missing?
Regardless, I still think he's worth it to get a borborygmos 3 turns early.
Yeah, I'm not quite sure how he gets it on turn 2 either, but it's easy on turn 3.
Again, let me know how he works out for you, I played him several times and was always kind of underwhelmed by it. I also don't really rush out Borbor. This deck really isn't ready to play archenemy from turn 3, so often it'll have a small-ish impact for him to hit the board and then he'll get tucked or exiled and you've potentially fallen quite a bit behind if you don't have Life from the Loam, ramp or some kind of land recursion going on. If I can cast him quick without setting my land count back any, I will though.
R Norin the Wary: I've Got a Bad Feeling About This
UG Thrasios & Kydele: Knowledge is Power
RG Borborygmos Enraged: The Breaking of the World
BG The Gitrog Monster: All Glory to the Hypnotoad
WUR Zedruu the Greathearted: Endless Possibilities, One Outcome
WBG Karador, Ghost Chieftain: What's Dead May Never Die
Turn your junk into something great with PucaTrade!
Gardener certainly looks fun, I think I'd be surprised if he ever lived to activate his ability on his flipped side, but still fun.
Looking through a bunch of cards for a possible Dune-Brood Nephilim voltron/stax build I found Scouting Trek which looks about as good as Abundance for a combo with Snake/Sense. Any thoughts?
The gardener is probably better than Walking Atlas, so that's something.
Scouting Trek seems cool, but I worry that it's really only useful in that one instance where you could combo, but are missing Abundance. I worry that it's not quite versatile enough to be part of the 99.
R Norin the Wary: I've Got a Bad Feeling About This
UG Thrasios & Kydele: Knowledge is Power
RG Borborygmos Enraged: The Breaking of the World
BG The Gitrog Monster: All Glory to the Hypnotoad
WUR Zedruu the Greathearted: Endless Possibilities, One Outcome
WBG Karador, Ghost Chieftain: What's Dead May Never Die
Turn your junk into something great with PucaTrade!
+
I ramped pretty awesomely with a Khalni Heart, followed by Exploration, and then Exploding Veggies. Oracle of Mul Daya and Orcish Lumbejack came down later. A later game Lumberjack actually did some work for me, being able to let me play some pretty expensive stuff and still attack against the enchantments in the same turns, plus he was fodder for the gravepact.
I did 42 damage in one turn in the face of certain defeat.
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I need a couple more answers in my deck. Particularly board wipe and enchantment/ artifact hate. I'm thinking I need to track down an All Is Dust because it could have dealt with either or both of the decks I faced. Creature control is less important because Borbss is good at that but here is more mass enchantment hate. that I might try to squeeze in.
I also Gambled early for a Snake Umbra. I think I assume that either Umbra or Keen Sense is always the target to go for, but it didn't really do a whole lot this game. Would have rather had a storm cauldron or Praetor's.
Thanks again for the report. I think you were right not to block there as well. If it doesn't kill you, I usually just leave it be.
We've discussed quite a few board wipes up above, so take a look. I'm a huge fan of Chain Reaction. As for dealing with enchantments, I prefer more versatile solutions that can deal with any permanent. If your deck doesn't run Chaos Warp, Beast Within and Acidic Slime those are a pretty good place to start. Krosan Grip is a solid target artifact or enchantment option. Hull Breach is serviceable as is Desert Twister honestly. I've also been thinking about trying Decimate since you can get so much value out of it. It sounds like Teysa was simply pillowforting, which should be easy to overcome by killing that player with something other than combat damage.
I find Gamble to be exceedingly hard to use in this deck. You're almost forced to use it on the first or second turn since your odds of discarding the card you tutored for go way up after. On turn 1, I usually find myself looking for Oracle of Mul-Daya, Azusa, Lost but Seeking, Horn of Greed or Exploration if I have no combo pieces. If it's past turn 2, I almost always go get Life from the Loam. It's almost better if you discard it so you can get the dredge train rolling. The only time I go get a combo piece is if I have the other one in hand. An opening hand with Abundance or Keen Sense usually encourages me to go get the other.
R Norin the Wary: I've Got a Bad Feeling About This
UG Thrasios & Kydele: Knowledge is Power
RG Borborygmos Enraged: The Breaking of the World
BG The Gitrog Monster: All Glory to the Hypnotoad
WUR Zedruu the Greathearted: Endless Possibilities, One Outcome
WBG Karador, Ghost Chieftain: What's Dead May Never Die
Turn your junk into something great with PucaTrade!
My Blog - contains my decklists
Uril, The Miststalker
Frankie Peanuts - needs to move to multiplayer.
As far as sundial goes, I find that by the time I really need/ want draw, I'm not dropping many lands into play.
It's a one-sided sort of Horn of Greed . It's not exactly the most exciting card, but it could certainly do work over a longer game. Try it out and let me know if it works for you.
Artifact Mutation might have a place as both a targeted removal spell and a source of chump blockers, but I think I'd rather have more options for targets and forgo the extra blockers. I wish they'd just print a version of that card with artifact or enchantment targets instead of having them be two cards.
I made some changes today and played some 1 on 1 games to varying degrees of success. Mostly, I aquired an Inkmoth Nexus for yet another way to win with a land. Can't wait to live the dream and Rubblehulk the Nexus for the win.
R Norin the Wary: I've Got a Bad Feeling About This
UG Thrasios & Kydele: Knowledge is Power
RG Borborygmos Enraged: The Breaking of the World
BG The Gitrog Monster: All Glory to the Hypnotoad
WUR Zedruu the Greathearted: Endless Possibilities, One Outcome
WBG Karador, Ghost Chieftain: What's Dead May Never Die
Turn your junk into something great with PucaTrade!
Mage Slayer might be decent in our deck I reckon. Giant Adafage was fun, hasn't seen him yet. I've been running Howling Mine, Rite of Flourishing, and Anvil of Bogardan. Anvil came out in one of these games and was great. There was always something I wouldn't mind in the grave, so it felt like it was better than just extra card draw, which is already great. Makes me wonder about Tibalt, the Fiend-Blooded. Might try it out, see if some eyes pop (o_0)
Far Wanderings
Explore - Have cast it once and loved it. It's essentially rampant growth because of our land count and it's awesome that it filters even a single card. Also works magic with Horn of Greed in play.
Destructive Force - Cast it once in 1v1 and my opponent scooped immediately. Pretty brutal if you cast it on turn 5 after we've ramped to 8 or 10 lands.
Zhur-Taa Druid
Ruric Thar, the Unbowed
I'll be continuing to give results on these guys. They aren't permanent changes, so the main list hasn't been updated for them yet.
In other news, REAL changes because I finally got my hands on them.
Forest ---> Strip Mine
Comet Storm ---> Furnace of Rath
I haven't really thought too hard about running the extra draw stuff. My biggest concern, is giving players more threats or answers than I have since the combo is so fragile. I'll have to mull on it.
R Norin the Wary: I've Got a Bad Feeling About This
UG Thrasios & Kydele: Knowledge is Power
RG Borborygmos Enraged: The Breaking of the World
BG The Gitrog Monster: All Glory to the Hypnotoad
WUR Zedruu the Greathearted: Endless Possibilities, One Outcome
WBG Karador, Ghost Chieftain: What's Dead May Never Die
Turn your junk into something great with PucaTrade!
Game 1 vs Rith, Rhys and Doran.
The Doran was of little importance throughout the game. Rhys and Rith both did their token-y thing, but I managed to stick Borbor and Snake Umbra. The next turn I dropped Storm Cauldron, picked up a chunk of lands and tried to end the game. I managed to kill the Rhys player, who's response was "I've never seen anything like that before", and I stalled out in trying to take out the Rith player. I hit Reforge the Soul, but only drew one land in the process. He managed to squeak out just enough damage to kill me the next turn.
Game 2 vs Sharuum, Kira and Jarad
Lots of back and forth with Kira and Sharuum mostly trading the archenemy status back and forth through the game. The game technically ended on a player not paying attention and failing to counter a spell that would put Lord of Extinction into play with Jarad. I talked everyone into continuing just for fun, and it seemed lame to let the game end on that note, and the game went my way afterwards. Ended up winning through Keen Sense and Abundance.
Game 3 vs Sharuum, Niv Mizzet and Jarad
Not a lot to report here. Niv ended up with a Darksteel Forge and Neverynl's Disk the turn before I could combo off with Borbor. Was still one turn from winning which felt pretty good.
Game 4 vs Sharuum, Bruna and Kresh
Here is where my frustration settled in. Both Bruna and Kresh were playing really REALLY mediocre decks. I'm pretty sure I saw a Luminous Arc cast at some point. I misplayed Memory Jar and ended up with both Keen Sense and Snake Umbra in the yard, and I couldn't find a new route to victory. I managed to Scapeshift the Sharuum player down to 12, but no one could find a way to kill him other than me, so he just Mindslavered me every turn.
Notes to myself. The deck needs more card draw, more filtering and probably some more recursion. It also, desperately needs ways to interact with opponents problem permanents. I'll be doing a pretty hefty rebuild sometime soon to try and address some of these problems.
R Norin the Wary: I've Got a Bad Feeling About This
UG Thrasios & Kydele: Knowledge is Power
RG Borborygmos Enraged: The Breaking of the World
BG The Gitrog Monster: All Glory to the Hypnotoad
WUR Zedruu the Greathearted: Endless Possibilities, One Outcome
WBG Karador, Ghost Chieftain: What's Dead May Never Die
Turn your junk into something great with PucaTrade!
But I'll soon post my deck and a couple of wants for it because I'm about 85-90% done on my build (and I'm trying out new things as I discover them).
But as an aside, my meta consists of Animar, Glissa, Damia, Kresh, Ghave, Mimeoplasm, Isperia (RTR), Captain Sisay, Phelidagrif, Bruna, Intet, Merike, Mayael, and two Sliver players. I've got a very diverse meta, but I typically play the graveyard players so I was planning on adding a Relic of Progentitus to my deck.
Standard
GBWJunk ReanimatorWBG
EDH
BShirei, Shizo's CaretakerB
RGBorborygmos EnragedGR
What I took away
-Extra draw wins games. I need a horn of my own.
-Orcish Lumberjack is amazing when undealt with. I used it at least 4 times in this game to power out big plays. Considering adding Goblin Clearcutter.
-Oracle of Mul Daya continues to be amazing, to nobody's surprise. Especially when Exploration and Horn of Greed are in play.
-many of my wins would have been losses without a big threat coming down the turn before borbor. This game it was my Dragon Mage eating a Vraska minus. (I then got to revenge Vraska with my Oracle, which was great). Anyway, I highly recommend having a few 7ish drops to force removal.
Alfindeol, I'm pretty much in the same boat of being ready to hibernate my deck and get some changes in. Acid, do you run Lignify? I had a blast lignify ing an avacyn once. Looking for room in this deck for a copy.
Lastly, I'm not currently running any scapeshift effect, but for those of you who are, anyone thinking of running the new Dark Depths / Thespian's Stage interaction?