Agreed on the collaboration idea... personally I've restricted expensive stuff like Revised duals because I only own one (a signed Plateau) and it'll be a snowball's chance in hell before I get my hands on another... where I live, 100 USD is a lot of money. Consider that most people here make 400-500 a month. [EDIT: And I just spent that kind of sum on M11 booster boxes and singles. Ouch.]
Regarding the Leyline... I just found a justification for my Timmy urge: it's a nice replacement for Aluren since A) it only affects you and B) it affects all spells, not just creatures. You lose casting them for free if they are critters costing 3 or less, but hey, I think it's a hell of a trade-off.
I was about to explain my meta slivers, but then I took another look at cmetc's post and everything I think is right there so why repeat myself
We still want Aura Shards in? If so, what to sack? Harmonic Sliver? The former adds a 'may' clause but cannot be tutored by the 'lord... tricky choice here...
In MP, someone always has an artifact or enchantment. Harmonic Sliver will never not find a target. At the very least, someone will HAVE to target it, protecting your other slivers.
No Taurean Baller? Someone in the group has to deal with him or his presence becomes insanity.
Ward Sliver is fantastic, no doubt. Singlehandedly shuts down monocolored decks or protects you from the worst colors at the table (so often blue or black).
(My friend plays Overlord often, and those three cards always help him "get there.")
I'd always choose stuff like Blade, Muscle, Plated, and Sinew, along with Brood and Horned. I guess I don't know what the deck is shooting for with those guys other than "have slivers out and protect them." Maybe it just depends on the playgroup, though.
I've reached the conclusion that if you can protect your slivers from everything sans mass removal or bounce, you only need 21~ slivers.
Then you have to ask yourself, "Am I going to tutor this sliver, no matter what?" That really helped me condense my list down to the cream of the crop.
Those other slivers, that in my opinion don't belong, just clutter up the deck and only provide bodies that make minor differences.
For example, I never thought I would cut muscle and sinew. Sliver Legion changed that. If Sliver Legion and Sliver Queen can not be countered and have shroud, I pump out at least two muscles every turn.
Hibernation Sliver is a real tech card. Sometimes you don't want a sliver on the field. If you have Shifting Sliver out and you really want to provoke a problem creature, pay 2 life and solve the problem.
Take a look at any of the Overlord lists in the EDH Decklist thread. They all look like this.
Slivers should be able to go toe to toe with any Tier 1 deck, if properly built. And I know for a fact it can win MP games where your face gets beaten in by three other people.
I find Cruel Ultimatum to be the best one out of the three you suggested... again I find myself wondering what to remove to make room for it. Maybe Eternal Witness?
I figure the decklist already has enough tech and card options to get by without Conflux, and Titanic Ultimatum is like Overrun on steroids, but most of the slivers on the deck already provide those buffs.
I still don't know what to sack to add Ward Sliver and Taurean Mauler. I don't know what to remove to put back that Sol Ring, either, but personally I would not use it.
On a totally unrelated issue, I really need to get this off my chest: today we opened two M11 booster boxes and we only got like 10-15 decent cards. No Primeval Titan...
Slivers already attract a lot of heat from other players, might as well let it be known you can play in the fire.
Edit: @Crux, at the moment im just listing cards of the top of my head. some of these cards I don't even have. Last Stand is something i found just scanning magiccards.info . still gotta draft my master list,sleeping till 12pm and working 3pm to 11pm leaves me with a few hours of free time.
....I've seen those decks win quite a bit. Again, probably depends on the playgroup...and I don't know what "Tier 1" in a casual format means.
I think what he means as "Tier 1" is a deck that can pretty much be hated on by three other players in a game, and still pull it back and kick ass. Which I've seen Gref, and another player in our playgroup do multiple times.
maybe cut Mnemonic Sliver for Dormant Sliver - you do have reliable ways to bounce this guy if you want to attack. Plus once you play him again you can draw a card, if you bounce any slivers you can re-play them for cards rather than sending them to the graveyard.
I used to run Sylvan Tutor myself, but in a multiplayer environment I found it actually invites to mess with your library. As a sorcery, it turns it into a really inviting target.
Lucky bastard... The only dual I have (and likely the only one I'll ever own) is a plateau...
I haven't been doing much Magic lately. Finals + job > hobbies... Worse still, the Queen and the slivers I bought on the 'net are still on their way. 6 weeks after purchase. T_T
Regarding the Leyline... I just found a justification for my Timmy urge: it's a nice replacement for Aluren since A) it only affects you and B) it affects all spells, not just creatures. You lose casting them for free if they are critters costing 3 or less, but hey, I think it's a hell of a trade-off.
[Horde] Phyrexia ascendant - The Virus
WUBRG - [Primer] Sliver Overlord - The Swarm - WUBRG
Looking at our lists, it seems 21 slivers is the number to be at. 13~15 being staples and the other 6~8 to fit your meta/style. Am I onto something?
Lucky 13 Slivers
1v1 Headquarters
Sliver Overlord (MP, Retired)
Talrand, Sky Summoner (1v1, Budget)
Sygg, River Cutthroat (1v1, Competitive)
We still want Aura Shards in? If so, what to sack? Harmonic Sliver? The former adds a 'may' clause but cannot be tutored by the 'lord... tricky choice here...
[Horde] Phyrexia ascendant - The Virus
WUBRG - [Primer] Sliver Overlord - The Swarm - WUBRG
No Taurean Baller? Someone in the group has to deal with him or his presence becomes insanity.
Ward Sliver is fantastic, no doubt. Singlehandedly shuts down monocolored decks or protects you from the worst colors at the table (so often blue or black).
(My friend plays Overlord often, and those three cards always help him "get there.")
(U/B)(U/B)(U/B) JUMP IN THE LINE, ROCK YOUR BODY IN TIME
(R/W)(R/W)(R/W) RISING FROM THE NEON GLOOM, SHINING LIKE A CRAZY MOON
(U/R)(R/G)(G/U) STEALIN' WHEN I SHOULD HAVE BEEN BUYIN'
[Horde] Phyrexia ascendant - The Virus
WUBRG - [Primer] Sliver Overlord - The Swarm - WUBRG
any ideas of tech or utility?
I still have a sol ring in my deck. should i pitch it for something else?
edit: just thought i would mention three cards, one of which i already run.
edit: found a potential land for the "other five land" slots Crystal Quarry.
1v1 Headquarters
Sliver Overlord (MP, Retired)
Talrand, Sky Summoner (1v1, Budget)
Sygg, River Cutthroat (1v1, Competitive)
I'd always choose stuff like Blade, Muscle, Plated, and Sinew, along with Brood and Horned. I guess I don't know what the deck is shooting for with those guys other than "have slivers out and protect them." Maybe it just depends on the playgroup, though.
(U/B)(U/B)(U/B) JUMP IN THE LINE, ROCK YOUR BODY IN TIME
(R/W)(R/W)(R/W) RISING FROM THE NEON GLOOM, SHINING LIKE A CRAZY MOON
(U/R)(R/G)(G/U) STEALIN' WHEN I SHOULD HAVE BEEN BUYIN'
Then you have to ask yourself, "Am I going to tutor this sliver, no matter what?" That really helped me condense my list down to the cream of the crop.
Those other slivers, that in my opinion don't belong, just clutter up the deck and only provide bodies that make minor differences.
For example, I never thought I would cut muscle and sinew. Sliver Legion changed that. If Sliver Legion and Sliver Queen can not be countered and have shroud, I pump out at least two muscles every turn.
Hibernation Sliver is a real tech card. Sometimes you don't want a sliver on the field. If you have Shifting Sliver out and you really want to provoke a problem creature, pay 2 life and solve the problem.
Take a look at any of the Overlord lists in the EDH Decklist thread. They all look like this.
Sliver Overlord
40 to 45 Slivers
35 Land
25 Other Spells
These decks aren't winning any games.
Slivers should be able to go toe to toe with any Tier 1 deck, if properly built. And I know for a fact it can win MP games where your face gets beaten in by three other people.
1v1 Headquarters
Sliver Overlord (MP, Retired)
Talrand, Sky Summoner (1v1, Budget)
Sygg, River Cutthroat (1v1, Competitive)
(U/B)(U/B)(U/B) JUMP IN THE LINE, ROCK YOUR BODY IN TIME
(R/W)(R/W)(R/W) RISING FROM THE NEON GLOOM, SHINING LIKE A CRAZY MOON
(U/R)(R/G)(G/U) STEALIN' WHEN I SHOULD HAVE BEEN BUYIN'
I find Cruel Ultimatum to be the best one out of the three you suggested... again I find myself wondering what to remove to make room for it. Maybe Eternal Witness?
I figure the decklist already has enough tech and card options to get by without Conflux, and Titanic Ultimatum is like Overrun on steroids, but most of the slivers on the deck already provide those buffs.
I still don't know what to sack to add Ward Sliver and Taurean Mauler. I don't know what to remove to put back that Sol Ring, either, but personally I would not use it.
On a totally unrelated issue, I really need to get this off my chest: today we opened two M11 booster boxes and we only got like 10-15 decent cards. No Primeval Titan...
[Horde] Phyrexia ascendant - The Virus
WUBRG - [Primer] Sliver Overlord - The Swarm - WUBRG
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=222395
Slivers already attract a lot of heat from other players, might as well let it be known you can play in the fire.
Edit: @Crux, at the moment im just listing cards of the top of my head. some of these cards I don't even have. Last Stand is something i found just scanning magiccards.info . still gotta draft my master list,sleeping till 12pm and working 3pm to 11pm leaves me with a few hours of free time.
1v1 Headquarters
Sliver Overlord (MP, Retired)
Talrand, Sky Summoner (1v1, Budget)
Sygg, River Cutthroat (1v1, Competitive)
I think what he means as "Tier 1" is a deck that can pretty much be hated on by three other players in a game, and still pull it back and kick ass. Which I've seen Gref, and another player in our playgroup do multiple times.
WGB Teneb, the Harvester
I'm Still Confused How Progenitus, the giant godlike serpent can't get over a Moat...
1 Sliver Overlord UBRGW
Slivers
2 Amoeboid Changeling
3 Crystalline Sliver
4 Essence Sliver
5 Fury Sliver
6 Gemhide Sliver
7 Heart Sliver
8 Hibernation Sliver
9 Hunter Sliver
10 Magma Sliver
11 Necrotic Sliver
12 Pulmonic Sliver
13 Quick Sliver
14 Root Sliver
15 Sedge Sliver
16 Shifting Sliver
17 Sliver Queen
18 Sliver Legion
19 Mnemonic Sliver
20 Basal Sliver
21 Synchronous sliver
Non Sliver Creatures
22 Clone
23 Dauntless Escort
24 Imagecrafter
25 Seedborn Muse
26 Sun Titan
27 Eternal Witness
28 Academy Rector
Instants
29 Enlightened Tutor
30 Hinder
31 Mortify
32 Mystical Tutor
33 Putrefy
34 Voidslime
35 Worldly Tutor
36 Vampiric Tutor
37 Diabolic Tutor
38 Distant Melody
39 Demonic Tutor
40 Guided Passage
41 Idyllic Tutor
42 Shard Convergence
43 Titanic Ultimatum
44 Cruel Ultimatum
45 Farseek
Enchantments
46 Mana Echoes
47 Oblivion Ring
48 Oversold Cemetery
49 Sylvan Library
50 Training Grounds
51 Unnatural Selection
52 Aura Shards
Artifacts
53 Aether Vial
54 Coalition Relic
55 Crystal Ball
56 Darksteel Ingot
57 Eldrazi Monument
58 Mox Diamond
59 Scroll Rack
60 Sensei's Divining Top
Planeswalkers
61 Liliana Vess
Lands
62 Badlands
63 Bayou
64 Scrubland
65 Arid Mesa
66 Tundra
67 Blood Crypt
68 Bloodstained Mire
70 Breeding Pool
71 City of Brass
72 Taiga
73 Tropical Island
74 Volcanic Island
75 Savannah
76 Underground Sea
77 Godless Shrine
78 Grand Coliseum
79 Plateau
80 Hallowed Fountain
81 Marsh Flats
82 Misty Rainforest
83 Crystal Quarry
84 Overgrown Tomb
85 Rupture Spire
86 Windswept Heath
87 Polluted Delta
88 Sacred Foundry
89 Scalding Tarn
90 Flooded Strand
91 Steam Vents
92 Stomping Ground
93 Sunpetal Grove
94 Temple Garden
95 Undiscovered Paradise
96 Verdant Catacombs
97 Wooded Foothills
98 Reflecting Pool
99 Volrath's Stronghold
100 Watery Grave
DECKLIST OUTDATED
1v1 Headquarters
Sliver Overlord (MP, Retired)
Talrand, Sky Summoner (1v1, Budget)
Sygg, River Cutthroat (1v1, Competitive)
it also seems powerful if you have Sliver Queen AND/OR Aether Vial, AND/OR Quick Sliver.
1v1 Headquarters
Sliver Overlord (MP, Retired)
Talrand, Sky Summoner (1v1, Budget)
Sygg, River Cutthroat (1v1, Competitive)
as of 11/7/10 my list is only missing revised duals.
1v1 Headquarters
Sliver Overlord (MP, Retired)
Talrand, Sky Summoner (1v1, Budget)
Sygg, River Cutthroat (1v1, Competitive)
[Horde] Phyrexia ascendant - The Virus
WUBRG - [Primer] Sliver Overlord - The Swarm - WUBRG
some cards i'm running atm:
future sight will probably go, added it for fun in the first place but it didn't do enough for me.
1v1 Headquarters
Sliver Overlord (MP, Retired)
Talrand, Sky Summoner (1v1, Budget)
Sygg, River Cutthroat (1v1, Competitive)
Ghostly Prison - A veritable pain in the rear. I LOVED Decimate... imagine that with a Leyline of Anticipation in play.
[Horde] Phyrexia ascendant - The Virus
WUBRG - [Primer] Sliver Overlord - The Swarm - WUBRG
1v1 Headquarters
Sliver Overlord (MP, Retired)
Talrand, Sky Summoner (1v1, Budget)
Sygg, River Cutthroat (1v1, Competitive)
BU[MANA]G[/MANA]W[MANA]R[/MANA]Slivers (Overlord as general)BU[MANA]G[/MANA]W[MANA]R[/MANA]
BMono Black (Xiahou Dun as general)B
sol ring again
edit: going to post a massive list update soon.
1v1 Headquarters
Sliver Overlord (MP, Retired)
Talrand, Sky Summoner (1v1, Budget)
Sygg, River Cutthroat (1v1, Competitive)
currently running:
+dark confidant
-sylvan library
-oblivion ring
-idyllic tutor
edit:
also added for real
1v1 Headquarters
Sliver Overlord (MP, Retired)
Talrand, Sky Summoner (1v1, Budget)
Sygg, River Cutthroat (1v1, Competitive)
I haven't been doing much Magic lately. Finals + job > hobbies... Worse still, the Queen and the slivers I bought on the 'net are still on their way. 6 weeks after purchase. T_T
[Horde] Phyrexia ascendant - The Virus
WUBRG - [Primer] Sliver Overlord - The Swarm - WUBRG