LIke I said, we must play at a different power level, because whenever I play, there will 100% be creatures on the board within the firt 3 turns.
I do agree that it is miles better then Bringer of the Black Down.
I would define a pet card as a card that you know isn't good enough to be in that specific deck, has little synergy with the rest of the deck, but you play annyway. I think most people would agree with me when saying Jace isn't good enough to be played in MOST commander decks, and certainly not in this one.
Actually Jace is not played in Cedh, non of the top-decks are running him.
Ofcourse he's better when you have creatures laying around to block, but we're arguing over playing him in Lands.dec, in which he doesn't belong, because we're not a typical control deck that runs 6-10 Creature-wrath's, or a Stax deck that locks everything down, or an extra turns deck, or a superfriends deck,... For sure he will be better in any of those decks, can we at least agree on that?
To me it seems to boil down to our differences in playgroups. Jace would'nt make it around 1 Cycle where I play, except for after a COA wrath. Can we agree that 2UU for 1 Brainstorm (sometimes 2) is just bad? Because if so, Jace would be bad in my meta.
I don't think we play at different power-levels, just different metas. I also said that Jace TMS is bad in cEDH, kinda like how Jace TMS is hard to tap-out for in Modern.
Jace is never just 2UU for only one Brainstorm when I play. Yes, I agree with you that 2UU for Brainstorm is poor. But since I always get more than that, I will continue to play Jace. Brainstorm synergizes extremely well in my shuffle and tutor heavy deck. It's better than getting a land back each turn.
However, if you can't ever get more value than one Brainstorm, I can see why you wouldn't play it. If Jace TMS can't make one round in your group, why bother with Wrenn other than just to try new cards?
The thing is it is debatable wether Brainstorm is better then getting a land back, espcially accounting for the difference in mana. I'm not saying Wrenn is definitely better, I'm unsure, I just think Jace is not good enough, not for me to play at least.
Even 2UU for 2 Brainstorms is not good enough I believe, however, you play what you play, I can see that in a slower meta, Jace could be better, not in mine though. I'm going to try Wrenn out if I get one, unsure about the power lvl.
So this guy got spoiled. From now on, Golos will probably be the go-to-guy for new Lands.dec players. But those in the know, understand how gamebreaking a Planar Cleansing is in the command zone.
You'll will probably get laughed at for sticking with Child of Alara instead. Heck, when I tell people I'm running a Lands.dec, they always ask how come I'm not using Windgrace or Omnath.
Golos does seem like a great add for the 99. I might even build an entirely separate 99 with Golos at the helm. It would be a completely different build and I would get to actually get to play Sol Ring and Mana Crypt.
This is also another interesting card. It's kinda like a Valakut that you wouldn't need Prismatic Omen. And if you have Prismatic Omen, you could even Scapeshift for this and Valakut. It's always nice to have a back-up plan for when a gate gets exiled. I know people suggest Riftsweeper, but that has always been a non-starter for me.
About back-up plans, Avenger of Zendikar has been a monster for me lately.
On turn 7, I played an Avenger for 8 plants. Opponent on my immediate left senses trouble and steals Avenger with a Dragonlord Silumgar.
On turn 8, I played Jace, the Mind Sculptor and bounced Silumgar. Then resolve a Splendid Reclamation for 3 fetchlands and a cycle land. My plants had 8x +1/+1 counters and it was game.
Jace TMS + Avenger = Best buddies from Worldwake.
I completely agree with you on Golos. The reason why COA Lands.dec is so good, lies with the fact that people can't (or seldomly) interact with lands, but we can, so we can keep on blowing up the board almost no downside, while demolishing opponents' resources, turn after turn.
Not a big fan of Field of the Dead, best case scenario you get like, I don't know, 15 2/2's? Which sounds underwhelming to me, and doesn't seem worth it.
But let me know how it runs, if you choose to try it out
While I agree that Avenger is a very good card, a very good finisher, and I run him in a lot of my green decks. I don't like playing popular game-finishers. Everyone has lost to Avenger at one point or another. I find it much more satisfying to win with Maze's end, Inkmoth Nexus, Valakut or Marit Lage.
To each their own ofcourse, everyone enjoys different things, I've just seen one too many Avengers in my day ^^
I don't have a defined meta. I just show up to 1 of 3 different LGS to play depending on the day I have available. Lately, my opponents have mostly been unable to recover from just the first Child trigger. It's just the luck of how the pods assemble. I can see how an even more recurrable Child would shut people out.
Thank you all for this thread, glad its still alive! Sharing my current list after a few weeks of tinkering. I'm buying the last of the cards tomorrow. Would love to add Volrath's Stronghold and some of the more expensive creatures eventually (Mul Daya, Azusa).
Only drawbacks I've seen in test draws are lack of consistent green sources/few ways to loop Child into the graveyard.
I really recommend getting Stronghold, it's really the engine that makes this deck busted.
Your list looks pretty solid, obviously you're missing some expensive cards, but overall, pretty good.
Let me know how Field of the Dead works out for you, I've been hesitant to put it in, but it seems not bad.
This got spoiled, I'm pretty excited for it. Seems great, especially with a Manabond out. Acts as narrow board-wipe in some instances. I play Expedition Map and Sylvan Scrying, this looks like it's more flexible, although a bit more costly, and less easily reccurable.
Definitely gonna try it out. Has anything caught your eye yet? No new decent lands in this set, so maybe the next
I'm not playing the 10 Shocks+ABU+Fetch package, my manabase is more centered around green, so all the green shocks and ABU duals (I made an exception for the fetches, where I'm running all the green ones + Marsh Flats and Polluted Delta) It's a very solid manabase, and usually I have no issues getting my colors when I need them.
Currently am testing out
- Jace, the mind sculptor so far a little unimpressed, pretty strong, but not as busted as I'd hoped.
- Field of the dead Extremely impressed, if you ask me this should be considered a staple for our archetype
- Wayward Swordtooth The redundancy is nice, don't know if I need though, since I'm running 12+ Tutor spells.
- Restore It's always been okay, never exceptional.
- Hall of Heliod's Generosity Very solid land, feels good to have the cycle of Volrath's Stronghold (Usually used to abuse our general, but does way more then that). Academy Ruins If for some reason you're unable to loop Child, you can still loop Oblivion Stone with this (among other artifacts you blew up earlier with Child). Hall is always getting back some key engine pieces, in the future he will also be returning the new Dryad of the Ilysian Grove.
- Horizon Canopy and Nurturing Peatland. I LOVE Life from the Loam, I'm running the OG Cycle lands, the BUG ones + a Scattered Groves. Maybe going to cut one of the Canopy lands, but this requires more testing.
- Wrenn and Six Currently don't own one, but would love to try him/her/it out. Waiting for the price to drop a little bit further.
Currently running 55 lands, but would like to go back up to 56.
Combos/Cards I don't run:
- Inkmoth Nexus/Kessig Wolf Run. To be fair, I kinda liked this combo, killed many people with it, it's just that you have a limited amount of non-color producing lands in your deck, and these two had to go.
- Basics. I started building this deck with 7 basics in, went to 5, 3, 1 and ultimately 0. Yes, sometimes you get Path to Exiled, and you fail to find, which hurts. Yes Blood moon is a cruel card. Yes people who play Ruination should be hanged. My opinion is that we'd lose those games anyways. Also feels kinda good/hipster to tell people you're running 55 lands, none of which are basics.
- Elvish Reclaimer Would like to test him out. A reusable Crop Rotation sounds good. I think the reason that I haven't is because he's pretty slow (summoning sick + Land enters tapped) and gets blown up by Child. Definitely going to try, if I find the room.
- Knight of the Reliquary I think I would run Elvish Reclaimer over him, not convinced this is the way to go, since I prefer my tutors to be non-permanent, but for sure a powerful option.
- Tempt with Discovery It was fine for a while, but quickly it was just a really expensive Rampant Growth, I'm playing Pir's Whim, which is a fine upgrade, gives you some kind of semi-spot removal and tutors at the same time. Could see me cutting this card in the future though.
Have been getting sooo many games in. Love this deck. Love this Archetype. There's not a day that goes by where I don't think about it.
What do we think about this one? Seems janky to me, but as an upside is VERY versatile. To me it feels like one of those cards you've got to play with, to understand wether it's good or not.
EDIT: After some more pondering about it, I think this card is almost a must include. It's so sweet, can all of our own lands (obviously) on top of all of our opponents lands. It's a mana rock with huge upside, the good thing is, unlike a regular mana-rock, when you decide to blow everything up with Child, you can still sacrifice this one in response. For example, Strip Mine somebody, Fetch or sac using Nurturing Peatlands abillity.
Just wanted to say, I've been testing out your iteration FTWRabbit, and so far I've been having a ton of fun with it in my playgroups. Come the end of quarantine, I think there's a fair chance I'll be putting this together in paper. So far, the only substitution I've made has been Prismatic Omen for Jace, The Mind Sculptor as I play in relatively creature heavy metas, and with Hall of Heliod's Generosity, it's been relatively easy to keep Valakut online. Keep up the awesome work!
Hey man, welcome to the forum. Omen is definitely something to consider, the reason I cut it is think Dryad of the Yllisian Grove is superior. You could ask "why not both", and that's a fair question. I think every card should be either really good/efficient at one specific thing or super versatile, Omen is neither, or isn't anymore I should say. Generally the Valakut combo is not something I go for very often, and I want things to serve a purpose outside of a big combo turn.
I had it in for a pretty long time, while Jace is pretty good in creature light meta's and also is good with all the fetching/tutoring/shuffling you're doing. I suggest you playtest this deck alot, since there are a ton of tutors in my list and you're doing a lot of shuffling in general, so it's a good idea to streamline the tutoring.
Do you have all the cards in paper? If your playgroup allows proxying I would slam dunk The Tabernacle At Pendrell Vale. Mine does, I just don't like the feeling playing with them, so I'm saving up to buy one.
What's the opinion on the new rules change? Here's how I look at it:
I can think of 3 VERY minor downsides:
1. Child's die effect isn't a "may" effect, meaning that if an opponent chooses to waste a kill spell on her to blow up the board, we can't send her to the command zone to negate that effect. Why this is only a small downside is because we generally only play her when we are already planning to blow up the board and we have a sac-outlet. I've never had this scenario occur in any games I played, but maybe you have?
2. It puts Child more on the map, which makes our deck slightly less of a cool off-the-wall-brew. I mean, it still is, we're playing 50+ lands, I'm just guessing this MIGHT change public perception of her, and when you pull her out people might go "oh, Child, how original" or something. I don't think she'll be top tier like Atraxa or Muldrotha, just slightly more known. Again, very minor downside.
3. Because of the fact that it's slightly more known, people might target you more, especially in an unknown pod. Again, minor downside, and I'm just speculating.
These three point are largely based off my own imagination and speculation, so take them with a grain of salt.
Here's the one, way more imporatant, positive:
1. We don't need to use Volrath's Stronghold or other shenanigans to reccur Child. Sometimes it's going to be more benificial to just let her go to the command zone, sometimes it's better to let her go to the graveyard.
For example, when we are hellbent, have plenty of lands, and a way to loop Child from the graveyard, we probably want to draw fresh cards instead of wasting our draw on recurring Child.
I would say it's a nice upgrade to the deck, nothing that's going to break it powerlevel wise. I give this rules change, in regards to Child, a solid 7/10.
I don't think we play at different power-levels, just different metas. I also said that Jace TMS is bad in cEDH, kinda like how Jace TMS is hard to tap-out for in Modern.
Jace is never just 2UU for only one Brainstorm when I play. Yes, I agree with you that 2UU for Brainstorm is poor. But since I always get more than that, I will continue to play Jace. Brainstorm synergizes extremely well in my shuffle and tutor heavy deck. It's better than getting a land back each turn.
However, if you can't ever get more value than one Brainstorm, I can see why you wouldn't play it. If Jace TMS can't make one round in your group, why bother with Wrenn other than just to try new cards?
Even 2UU for 2 Brainstorms is not good enough I believe, however, you play what you play, I can see that in a slower meta, Jace could be better, not in mine though. I'm going to try Wrenn out if I get one, unsure about the power lvl.
So this guy got spoiled. From now on, Golos will probably be the go-to-guy for new Lands.dec players. But those in the know, understand how gamebreaking a Planar Cleansing is in the command zone.
You'll will probably get laughed at for sticking with Child of Alara instead. Heck, when I tell people I'm running a Lands.dec, they always ask how come I'm not using Windgrace or Omnath.
Golos does seem like a great add for the 99. I might even build an entirely separate 99 with Golos at the helm. It would be a completely different build and I would get to actually get to play Sol Ring and Mana Crypt.
This is also another interesting card. It's kinda like a Valakut that you wouldn't need Prismatic Omen. And if you have Prismatic Omen, you could even Scapeshift for this and Valakut. It's always nice to have a back-up plan for when a gate gets exiled. I know people suggest Riftsweeper, but that has always been a non-starter for me.
About back-up plans, Avenger of Zendikar has been a monster for me lately.
On turn 7, I played an Avenger for 8 plants. Opponent on my immediate left senses trouble and steals Avenger with a Dragonlord Silumgar.
On turn 8, I played Jace, the Mind Sculptor and bounced Silumgar. Then resolve a Splendid Reclamation for 3 fetchlands and a cycle land. My plants had 8x +1/+1 counters and it was game.
Jace TMS + Avenger = Best buddies from Worldwake.
Not a big fan of Field of the Dead, best case scenario you get like, I don't know, 15 2/2's? Which sounds underwhelming to me, and doesn't seem worth it.
But let me know how it runs, if you choose to try it out
While I agree that Avenger is a very good card, a very good finisher, and I run him in a lot of my green decks. I don't like playing popular game-finishers. Everyone has lost to Avenger at one point or another. I find it much more satisfying to win with Maze's end, Inkmoth Nexus, Valakut or Marit Lage.
To each their own ofcourse, everyone enjoys different things, I've just seen one too many Avengers in my day ^^
Frighteningly easy to set up with Urborg or Prismatic Omen, and I have been running both Journey to Eternity and Gift of Immortality for their interactions with COA.
Drawing cards off Swamps seems really strong as does draining people off big land swings later in the game.
All these enchantments also go nicely with Hall of Heliod's Generosity
The other big question is how many Horizon Canopies to run now that there are 6 of them.
1x Child of Alara
Strongholds
1x Academy Ruins
1x Volrath's Stronghold
1x Hall of Heliod's Generosity
ABUR
1x Plateau
1x Volcanic Island
1x Scrubland
Fetches
1x Arid Mesa
1x Bloodstained Mire
1x Flooded Strand
1x Marsh Flats
1x Misty Rainforest
1x Verdant Catacombs
1x Polluted Delta
1x Windswept Heath
1x Wooded Foothills
1x Scalding Tarn
Shocks
1x Blood Crypt
1x Breeding Pool
1x Godless Shrine
1x Hallowed Fountain
1x Overgrown Tomb
1x Watery Grave
1x Stomping Ground
1x Temple Garden
1x Steam Vents
1x Sacred Foundry
Cyclers
1x Barren Moor
1x Canyon Slough
1x Fetid Pools
1x Forgotten Cave
1x Irrigated Farmland
1x Lonely Sandbar
1x Scattered Groves
1x Secluded Steppe
1x Sheltered Thicket
1x Tranquil Thicket
1x Fiery Islet
1x Horizon Canopy
1x Nurturing Peatland
1x Waterlogged Grove
1x Silent Clearing
Rainbow
1x City of Brass
1x Mana Confluence
1x Command Tower
Other
1x Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1x Valakut, the Molten Pinnacle
1x Thespian's Stage
1x Strip Mine
1x Tolaria West
1x Bojuka Bog
1x Phyrexian Tower
1x Glacial Chasm
1x Kessig Wolf Run
1x Inkmoth Nexus
Creature (12)
1x Academy Rector
1x Azusa, Lost but Seeking
1x Dark Confidant
1x Eternal Witness
1x Knight of the Reliquary
1x Oracle of Mul Daya
1x Ramunap Excavator
1x Rubblehulk
1x Snapcaster Mage
1x Tatyova, Benthic Druid
1x The Gitrog Monster
1x World Shaper
Enchantment (9)
1x Burgeoning
1x Exploration
1x Gift of Immortality
1x Journey to Eternity
1x Manabond
1x Prismatic Omen
1x Seismic Assault
1x Squandered Resources
1x Sylvan Library
1x Amulet of Vigor
1x Crucible of Worlds
1x Horn of Greed
1x Mox Diamond
1x Sensei's Divining Top
1x Zuran Orb
Instant (9)
1x Ad Nauseam
1x Corpse Dance
1x Crop Rotation
1x Enlightened Tutor
1x Entomb
1x Goryo's Vengeance
1x Intuition
1x Mystical Tutor
1x Vampiric Tutor
Sorcery (7)
1x Demonic Tutor
1x Life from the Loam
1x Reanimate
1x Scapeshift
1x Splendid Reclamation
1x Throes of Chaos
1x Yawgmoth's Will
Planeswalker (2)
1x Nissa, Vital Force
1x Wrenn and Six
Sunbaked Canyon didn't make the cut because that combination is the least relevant early on of the canopies.
Throes of Chaos seems like it would have mega value potential here, only whiffs are reanimations with no targets or Auras with no targets.
Gimme that hexproof on lotus land.
With Hall of Heliod's Generosity, I included Gift of Immortality and Journey to Eternity, more enchantments! Let's see how it plays differently.
I don't have a defined meta. I just show up to 1 of 3 different LGS to play depending on the day I have available. Lately, my opponents have mostly been unable to recover from just the first Child trigger. It's just the luck of how the pods assemble. I can see how an even more recurrable Child would shut people out.
Anyone gonna try out Golos for awhile?
Congrats for picking up $80 for cheap!
Thank you all for this thread, glad its still alive! Sharing my current list after a few weeks of tinkering. I'm buying the last of the cards tomorrow. Would love to add Volrath's Stronghold and some of the more expensive creatures eventually (Mul Daya, Azusa).
Only drawbacks I've seen in test draws are lack of consistent green sources/few ways to loop Child into the graveyard.
https://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/child-of-landsdec/?cb=1564464005
I really recommend getting Stronghold, it's really the engine that makes this deck busted.
Your list looks pretty solid, obviously you're missing some expensive cards, but overall, pretty good.
Let me know how Field of the Dead works out for you, I've been hesitant to put it in, but it seems not bad.
I think the effect is too difficult to trigger.
But they are printing a lot of candidates lately with their "lands matter" push. For example, Elvish Reclaimer from 2020 seems ridiculous.
This got spoiled, I'm pretty excited for it. Seems great, especially with a Manabond out. Acts as narrow board-wipe in some instances. I play Expedition Map and Sylvan Scrying, this looks like it's more flexible, although a bit more costly, and less easily reccurable.
Definitely gonna try it out. Has anything caught your eye yet? No new decent lands in this set, so maybe the next
EDIT: http://mythicspoiler.com/tbd/cards/dryadofilysiangrove.html THIS IS AWESOME Slam Dunk include if you ask me.
Note: I'm constantly tinkering around with this deck, cards come in and out all the time.
I'm not playing the 10 Shocks+ABU+Fetch package, my manabase is more centered around green, so all the green shocks and ABU duals (I made an exception for the fetches, where I'm running all the green ones + Marsh Flats and Polluted Delta) It's a very solid manabase, and usually I have no issues getting my colors when I need them.
Currently am testing out
- Jace, the mind sculptor so far a little unimpressed, pretty strong, but not as busted as I'd hoped.
- Field of the dead Extremely impressed, if you ask me this should be considered a staple for our archetype
- Wayward Swordtooth The redundancy is nice, don't know if I need though, since I'm running 12+ Tutor spells.
- Restore It's always been okay, never exceptional.
- Hall of Heliod's Generosity Very solid land, feels good to have the cycle of Volrath's Stronghold (Usually used to abuse our general, but does way more then that). Academy Ruins If for some reason you're unable to loop Child, you can still loop Oblivion Stone with this (among other artifacts you blew up earlier with Child). Hall is always getting back some key engine pieces, in the future he will also be returning the new Dryad of the Ilysian Grove.
- Horizon Canopy and Nurturing Peatland. I LOVE Life from the Loam, I'm running the OG Cycle lands, the BUG ones + a Scattered Groves. Maybe going to cut one of the Canopy lands, but this requires more testing.
- Wrenn and Six Currently don't own one, but would love to try him/her/it out. Waiting for the price to drop a little bit further.
Currently running 55 lands, but would like to go back up to 56.
Combos/Cards I don't run:
- Inkmoth Nexus/Kessig Wolf Run. To be fair, I kinda liked this combo, killed many people with it, it's just that you have a limited amount of non-color producing lands in your deck, and these two had to go.
- Basics. I started building this deck with 7 basics in, went to 5, 3, 1 and ultimately 0. Yes, sometimes you get Path to Exiled, and you fail to find, which hurts. Yes Blood moon is a cruel card. Yes people who play Ruination should be hanged. My opinion is that we'd lose those games anyways. Also feels kinda good/hipster to tell people you're running 55 lands, none of which are basics.
- Elvish Reclaimer Would like to test him out. A reusable Crop Rotation sounds good. I think the reason that I haven't is because he's pretty slow (summoning sick + Land enters tapped) and gets blown up by Child. Definitely going to try, if I find the room.
- Knight of the Reliquary I think I would run Elvish Reclaimer over him, not convinced this is the way to go, since I prefer my tutors to be non-permanent, but for sure a powerful option.
- Tempt with Discovery It was fine for a while, but quickly it was just a really expensive Rampant Growth, I'm playing Pir's Whim, which is a fine upgrade, gives you some kind of semi-spot removal and tutors at the same time. Could see me cutting this card in the future though.
Have been getting sooo many games in. Love this deck. Love this Archetype. There's not a day that goes by where I don't think about it.
What do we think about this one? Seems janky to me, but as an upside is VERY versatile. To me it feels like one of those cards you've got to play with, to understand wether it's good or not.
EDIT: After some more pondering about it, I think this card is almost a must include. It's so sweet, can all of our own lands (obviously) on top of all of our opponents lands. It's a mana rock with huge upside, the good thing is, unlike a regular mana-rock, when you decide to blow everything up with Child, you can still sacrifice this one in response. For example, Strip Mine somebody, Fetch or sac using Nurturing Peatlands abillity.
Further more, if one of your opponents has the Cabal Coffers+Urborg, tomb of Yawgmoth combo out, it helps you as well.
Here's a list of cards I don't play in my list, but which are very common in EDH, from which we might get the benefit:
- Kessig Wolf Run
- Rogue's Passage
- Alchemist's Refuge
- Desolate Lighthouse
- Scavenger Grounds
- Any "Man"-Land-
- Opposing Sac-outlet-lands (Such as Phyrexian Tower or High Market
- ...
It would be very good if it counted only your own lands, making it tap for your opponents lands as well makes it a muct-play in my opinion.
I had it in for a pretty long time, while Jace is pretty good in creature light meta's and also is good with all the fetching/tutoring/shuffling you're doing. I suggest you playtest this deck alot, since there are a ton of tutors in my list and you're doing a lot of shuffling in general, so it's a good idea to streamline the tutoring.
Do you have all the cards in paper? If your playgroup allows proxying I would slam dunk The Tabernacle At Pendrell Vale. Mine does, I just don't like the feeling playing with them, so I'm saving up to buy one.
I can think of 3 VERY minor downsides:
1. Child's die effect isn't a "may" effect, meaning that if an opponent chooses to waste a kill spell on her to blow up the board, we can't send her to the command zone to negate that effect. Why this is only a small downside is because we generally only play her when we are already planning to blow up the board and we have a sac-outlet. I've never had this scenario occur in any games I played, but maybe you have?
2. It puts Child more on the map, which makes our deck slightly less of a cool off-the-wall-brew. I mean, it still is, we're playing 50+ lands, I'm just guessing this MIGHT change public perception of her, and when you pull her out people might go "oh, Child, how original" or something. I don't think she'll be top tier like Atraxa or Muldrotha, just slightly more known. Again, very minor downside.
3. Because of the fact that it's slightly more known, people might target you more, especially in an unknown pod. Again, minor downside, and I'm just speculating.
These three point are largely based off my own imagination and speculation, so take them with a grain of salt.
Here's the one, way more imporatant, positive:
1. We don't need to use Volrath's Stronghold or other shenanigans to reccur Child. Sometimes it's going to be more benificial to just let her go to the command zone, sometimes it's better to let her go to the graveyard.
For example, when we are hellbent, have plenty of lands, and a way to loop Child from the graveyard, we probably want to draw fresh cards instead of wasting our draw on recurring Child.
I would say it's a nice upgrade to the deck, nothing that's going to break it powerlevel wise. I give this rules change, in regards to Child, a solid 7/10.