No worries.
I'm new to EDH and I liked this deck list a lot! I've been hunting down bits and pieces of it from stores in my area, I've got a solid 80/100 cards down. The Child of Alara wipe doesn't seem to be too popular with people, heh.
Do you know what changes/what's going to be removed from this primer deck list? And when abouts?
Nothing about the decklist will be changed for a while I think. Just updating alot of the details about cards and interactions. Go ahead and build! And give me feedback! I never thought i would run maze's end, but it really can work!
If the decklist does change soon, it will be adjusting the draw spells and manabase to match the spells we cast. Nothing too major. And it will take some testing.
I wonder why don't you play Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth. It makes your Maze of Ith, Glacial Chasm and Dark Depths produce mana and makes Last Stand stronger. Sure, you have Prismatic Omen but it can be destroyed more easily. The second thing - Academy Rector would make a fine tutor for Omen at least and you can sac him the same way as Child.
Sorry if those cards were mentioned already, didn't read all posts.
Yup. Ive been planning to add in urborg. Thanks for the reminder!
Considering Rector... ive got alot of enchantment tutors currently. But shes sooo good. Ill try to trade for one to yank out prismatic omen or terra eternal.
As ive said in previous posts, I've been wanting to test the two new commander cards for nonbasic lands.
Restore i see being kept. Tempt... is gonna be a meta call. By that i mean,will your meta allow you to abuse it once...never... or all the time? It'll depend on if its a really overcosted Slyvan Scrying, or a gamebreaker.
Swamp for Tomb since I never need a basic swamp, but i want my other lands to hit B due to increased focus on black spells now.
I dropped acidic because it was for the most part, an overcosted kill spell grabbable with GSZ. And that is what kept it in the list for so long. But when i cast GSZ, i never wanted to see it. I usually want KOTR or Azusa. Hell, i'd rather run the new "nuke all artifacts and enchantments" dude. He costs one less as well! Just have to watch nuking prismatic omen is all. No worries.
Sol ring...yeah. im gonna get flak for this, but rarely do i wanna see it. Ill mistakenly keep hands with it, not realizing my color identity for a majority of my cards dont benefit from the boost it gives. I need colored mana more. Heck, it also dies to child, and im not about to academy ruins it. For that, it gets the boot.
I'm not sure if you just haven't updated yet, but just an FYI, I think I counted 103 cards in your deck.
Pretty cool combination of 3 very fun decks! I also love CoA as a general.
Nope! haha whenever I post changes, I typically need a few days to update the entire primer to explain the changes. There are still many sections that need work. I will get to them in time
Yesterday I got to Maze's End the group again. Was pretty funny!
I'm currently looking to add in the following to help ramp and thin out the deck in a hurry
Land Tax, like many other ramp cards, works best early on. We only have a few basics, but that's all it takes is 1-2 triggers. Tusker is instant speed card draw and thinning.
How about adding Fastbond? It helps you out greatly and with it you can add many of the Kamigawa block creatures whose broken abilities have the drawback of returning lands to your hand. Also, it doesn't help your opponents. If you don't want to receive the damage, Personal Sanctuary is a must. It also helps when using pain lands.
My YouTube Channel: The Commander Tavern - a channel I just started where I'll post deck techs and gameplays. Please support by checking it out. Maybe you'll like its content and subscribe! Thanks!
How about adding Fastbond? It helps you out greatly and with it you can add many of the Kamigawa block creatures whose broken abilities have the drawback of returning lands to your hand. Also, it doesn't help your opponents. If you don't want to receive the damage, Personal Sanctuary is a must. It also helps when using pain lands.
Banned in commander or yeah, it would be in here. No doubt about it.
I haven't been playing mtg for a bit. Came back to check your primer for any new potential changes from Theros. AND you put in the Maze's End package
Some things to nitpick at. I don't think you run artifacts worth to enough to recur a lot of times via Academy Ruins. Since you're playing 5-colors, you have better options than Hull Breach. For one more mana, you can play vindicate or instant speed Beast Within.
I haven't been playing mtg for a bit. Came back to check your primer for any new potential changes from Theros. AND you put in the Maze's End package
Some things to nitpick at. I don't think you run artifacts worth to enough to recur a lot of times via Academy Ruins. Since you're playing 5-colors, you have better options than Hull Breach. For one more mana, you can play vindicate or instant speed Beast Within.
Youre right and yup i did. Turns out its really effective at winning the game in a hurry. Figured my playgroup wouldnt let me do it, but I guess they will
And oh yes thanks for the ideas! I just picked up a vindicate and i have an extra beast within. Hull breach was just to be able to hit two targets for two mana, but beast within is less situational. I agree!
And yea, ruins is next on the cutting board, ive been playing nekusar too much lately. So great minds think alike i kind of wanna add in more draw, removal, or Noxious Revival to save something at instant speed when gravehate happens (alot to this deck).
Better faster answers. Plus, academy ruins has become less and less cool as time goes on. There arent any must keep artifacts like we have enchantments.
In addition, mystic remora, especially early on with all our ramp, will draw more cards, for 1 less
Thanks and yeah, i was on the fence about it as well, but just dont make it super obvious you want to win with it, and it works. Scapeshift woth mazes end out, float 3, and grab all the gates you dont have out, use mqze's end's triggered ability and win. Obviously youll only need to make sure no one has a strip mine waiting, or can counter scapeshift. They are more likely to strip valakut. Its a great rattlesnake.
Uhhh not really. Its just another permanent to be killed by child. It seems more cute than anything, but it can be of a little value. It's just, like with everything else, what do you cut? If i wanted to run something, into the wilds is much better for that purpose, and i dont have to reveal if i dont want to.
Hello, i've recently had a large enough interest in this build to try my hand at making my own version. One thing I saw in reading some of the older posts was that you disliked Manabond. I don't know what your playgroup does/does not like, but Manabond seems sweet with Ad Nauseum (another card you're starting to dislike). I was thinking of a pass the turn win with your recently added Maze's End win con, and can be immediate win with prismatic omen and valukut. You'd probably have to drop the curve(I haven't seen how much damage your deck would deal to itself) a little bit to accommodate the consistency of this plan working, but it seems powerful.
Hello, i've recently had a large enough interest in this build to try my hand at making my own version. One thing I saw in reading some of the older posts was that you disliked Manabond. I don't know what your playgroup does/does not like, but Manabond seems sweet with Ad Nauseum (another card you're starting to dislike). I was thinking of a pass the turn win with your recently added Maze's End win con, and can be immediate win with prismatic omen and valukut. You'd probably have to drop the curve(I haven't seen how much damage your deck would deal to itself) a little bit to accommodate the consistency of this plan working, but it seems powerful.
I like that it has a "may" option. I keep forgetting that. I will probably have to add it in in that case. I usually like keeping a full hand of removal/tutors/scapeshift, so i put adding that card off
I will work on acquiring one!
Ad nauseam, with 51 lands and an average cmc of 2.8, is still kind of meh for a draw spell. But when it hits what i need, it is invaluable. I usually just topdeck it when im low on life
So I've finally gotten around to fleshing out a list of my own for this deck. I have esentially the same win cons as GromGrom, but I'm sort of riding the line between Control, Combo, peppered with a little Stax. this isn't solely because Smokestack is in there, but the cards that compliment the big picture of playing multiple lands a turn, and playing wurm harvest. This also make Meekstone and Ensnaring bridge more desirable which disrupt in a similar fashion against decks that will want to be attacking you right off the bat with the negative perception that comes with the general.
I only have 1 counterspell in Forbid, and that's because it's pretty good with Life from the Loam online, and can discard things that you might not want in your hand when you don't have loam online(extra lands, Riftstone Portal, etc). I usually don't like counterspells too much in this format, but I like this one's synergy, and the late game possibilities of keeping the table off their spells.
all that aside I tried to keep the curve as low as possible to maximize the amount of cards i can draw off of ad nauseum to pursue a valakut/prismatic omen or maze's end wincon paired with manabond. I've added Traveler's Amulet to make the maze's end wincon more reasonable without having to pass the turn, and it's pretty good on its own with a fair amount of lands come into play tapped. With that said there's only a small subset of cards that are 4 or greater in casting cost due to this, and each of them impact the game a lot or can lead directly to a win.
Enjoy! (the list is a little different than the one I sent you originally gromgrom)
So I've finally gotten around to fleshing out a list of my own for this deck. I have esentially the same win cons as GromGrom, but I'm sort of riding the line between Control, Combo, peppered with a little Stax. this isn't solely because Smokestack is in there, but the cards that compliment the big picture of playing multiple lands a turn, and playing wurm harvest. This also make Meekstone and Ensnaring bridge more desirable which disrupt in a similar fashion against decks that will want to be attacking you right off the bat with the negative perception that comes with the general.
I only have 1 counterspell in Forbid, and that's because it's pretty good with Life from the Loam online, and can discard things that you might not want in your hand when you don't have loam online(extra lands, Riftstone Portal, etc). I usually don't like counterspells too much in this format, but I like this one's synergy, and the late game possibilities of keeping the table off their spells.
all that aside I tried to keep the curve as low as possible to maximize the amount of cards i can draw off of ad nauseum to pursue a valakut/prismatic omen or maze's end wincon paired with manabond. I've added Traveler's Amulet to make the maze's end wincon more reasonable without having to pass the turn, and it's pretty good on its own with a fair amount of lands come into play tapped. With that said there's only a small subset of cards that are 4 or greater in casting cost due to this, and each of them impact the game a lot or can lead directly to a win.
Enjoy! (the list is a little different than the one I sent you originally gromgrom)
1. I understand some of this may be due to your meta, but why no basic lands? My meta is slowly ramping up the nonbasic hate. A single Ruination will, no pun intended, ruin your day.
2. In addition, no yawgmoth's will? Figure thatd be great for your build since you focus heavily on the graveyard.
3. Also you do have some draw (if i could afford confidant i would run him), but do you ever find yourself running out of gas?
4. I cut tabernacle as it rarely pulls its weight in my games (token decks on the decline), and it got in the way of my worm tokens. Plus the price tag, i couldnt justify it. That was merely my experience though
5. Meekstone and ensaring bridge really hurt marit lage hard. And knight of the reliquary with meekstone is a nono. I found it better to use glacial chasm and maze of ith aggressively. They, like tabernacle and the tokens, dont synergize that well. However, meekstone and tokens DO synergize.
6. I cut academy ruins as i rarely wanted to recur artifacts. Theyre just gravy now in mu build. Also, that bauble searches for only basics, which you arent really running flagstones should be in my build to grab revised duals.
But i have to hand it to ya, thats a really nice build man. I love how you made the graveyard strategy look great and synergize well. Two thumbs up. Please keep me up to date here with your results and findings!
1. I understand some of this may be due to your meta, but why no basic lands? My meta is slowly ramping up the nonbasic hate. A single Ruination will, no pun intended, ruin your day.
Ruination can "ruin" your day, but i'm the type who likes to play through the hate, and recovering from those types of effects aren't too hard in this build i would imagine, since more often than not you can top deck lands out of it. Plus, recurring lands is what the deck is best at, so having them all destroyed should only merely be a roadblock. this is all theory though, since i've not played one full game with this list yet.
3. Also you do have some draw (if i could afford confidant i would run him), but do you ever find yourself running out of gas?
I can't say I have or have not. Like i said before; this was just me fleshing out a list that i felt decent about in theory. I could be totally off base with my choices and the amount of redundancy, but I'm hoping to get some games in this weekend.
4. I cut tabernacle as it rarely pulls its weight in my games (token decks on the decline), and it got in the way of my worm tokens. Plus the price tag, i couldnt justify it. That was merely my experience though
Tabernacle is nice against tokens, but I think where it really shines is just aggro or any deck that wants to win by attacking over many turns in general, being able to basically leave them to what's on board is more valuable than what any of the other lands have to offer. I have Edric and Rafiq in my meta, so it really pulls weight there.
5. Meekstone and ensaring bridge really hurt marit lage hard. And knight of the reliquary with meekstone is a nono. I found it better to use glacial chasm and maze of ith aggressively. They, like tabernacle and the tokens, dont synergize that well. However, meekstone and tokens DO synergize.
Knight of the Reliquary is only 1 card, and more often than not it's just a land tutor that makes your harvest bigger. Marit Lage is usually going to be my last means of winning and by that time I probably don't have that kind of stabilization on board to mess with it.
6. I cut academy ruins as i rarely wanted to recur artifacts. Theyre just gravy now in mu build. Also, that bauble searches for only basics, which you arent really running flagstones should be in my build to grab revised duals.
academy ruins is very good here. It recurs just about all your removal from Tormod's crypt to engineered explosives, and Crucible of Worlds. Ruins is also an important piece to Intuition piles when gunning for mindslaver or Crucible.
But i have to hand it to ya, thats a really nice build man. I love how you made the graveyard strategy look great and synergize well. Two thumbs up. Please keep me up to date here with your results and findings!
I appreciate the kind words, and thanks for the inspiration with your own creation. i'll certainly keep you and everyone else reading this thread up to date with my findings!
I played 2 games last night going 1-1 because of a mistake i made. this deck is a beast to pilot, haha. So basically guy cast blood moon so in response i dustbowl a land, but forget i had riftstone portal out, and entomb in hand. So i sacced the wrong land and entombed ray of revelation to find myself in an awkward position because i noticed my mistake. Had i sacced portal to dust bowl i would've been able to ray of revelation his moon. The game I won ended on like turn 6 with eot ad nauseum with manabond, valakut, omen. everyone thought it was hilarious.
So I found a card today looking at old GaT lists, and that is Meloku the clouded Mirror. Seems pretty good with the manabond plan turning your lands into evasive 1/1's and getting to replay all your lands again at eot.
Some changes i'm making are fitting in Bazaar of Baghdad. I don't know why i overlooked this card, but this will probably replace Cephalid Colisseum. i'm most likely going to cut Krosan Grip and Abrupt Decay because between Punishing Fire, Ray, and Grudge they take care of a lot and are fitting into what the deck already wants to do. also, cutting Trinket mage, because his toolbox really doesn't warrant his inclusion like i had previously thought. I usually didn't like drawing him without something already set up.
I do want to test meloku, because it just seems insane especially as a card that can be a pseudo protection against MLD. I also am considering Tomb of Urami for the same reason, but less so as meloku.
I would also like to be able to fit Regrowth in aswell
I'm new to EDH and I liked this deck list a lot! I've been hunting down bits and pieces of it from stores in my area, I've got a solid 80/100 cards down. The Child of Alara wipe doesn't seem to be too popular with people, heh.
Do you know what changes/what's going to be removed from this primer deck list? And when abouts?
If the decklist does change soon, it will be adjusting the draw spells and manabase to match the spells we cast. Nothing too major. And it will take some testing.
GB [Primer][Competitive][Stax][Combo] Meren of Clan Nel Toth 95% RETIRED
UW [Primer][Competitive][Combo][Stax] Brago, King Eternal RETIRED
BR Rakdos, Lord of Riots (75%)
G Titania - 75%
W SRAM - Welcome to the cheeri0s jam 95%
U Teferi - stax 100%
R Neheb - janky mono red eggs combo 90%
B Gonti - 50% valuetown
Yup. Ive been planning to add in urborg. Thanks for the reminder!
Considering Rector... ive got alot of enchantment tutors currently. But shes sooo good. Ill try to trade for one to yank out prismatic omen or terra eternal.
GB [Primer][Competitive][Stax][Combo] Meren of Clan Nel Toth 95% RETIRED
UW [Primer][Competitive][Combo][Stax] Brago, King Eternal RETIRED
BR Rakdos, Lord of Riots (75%)
G Titania - 75%
W SRAM - Welcome to the cheeri0s jam 95%
U Teferi - stax 100%
R Neheb - janky mono red eggs combo 90%
B Gonti - 50% valuetown
+
As ive said in previous posts, I've been wanting to test the two new commander cards for nonbasic lands.
Restore i see being kept. Tempt... is gonna be a meta call. By that i mean,will your meta allow you to abuse it once...never... or all the time? It'll depend on if its a really overcosted Slyvan Scrying, or a gamebreaker.
Swamp for Tomb since I never need a basic swamp, but i want my other lands to hit B due to increased focus on black spells now.
I dropped acidic because it was for the most part, an overcosted kill spell grabbable with GSZ. And that is what kept it in the list for so long. But when i cast GSZ, i never wanted to see it. I usually want KOTR or Azusa. Hell, i'd rather run the new "nuke all artifacts and enchantments" dude. He costs one less as well! Just have to watch nuking prismatic omen is all. No worries.
Sol ring...yeah. im gonna get flak for this, but rarely do i wanna see it. Ill mistakenly keep hands with it, not realizing my color identity for a majority of my cards dont benefit from the boost it gives. I need colored mana more. Heck, it also dies to child, and im not about to academy ruins it. For that, it gets the boot.
GB [Primer][Competitive][Stax][Combo] Meren of Clan Nel Toth 95% RETIRED
UW [Primer][Competitive][Combo][Stax] Brago, King Eternal RETIRED
BR Rakdos, Lord of Riots (75%)
G Titania - 75%
W SRAM - Welcome to the cheeri0s jam 95%
U Teferi - stax 100%
R Neheb - janky mono red eggs combo 90%
B Gonti - 50% valuetown
I notice now that there's 55 lands in the "Lands (53)" section. D:
Removing a bad draw land and a card that could come back, but tends to hit too many lands and costs too much mana to get big effects.
+
Realmwright seems a decent way to hit valakut triggers outside of pris omen, or choose swamps to hit last stand
Claim is to hit basics and duals, as well as ramping early to scapeshift for mazes end faster.
GB [Primer][Competitive][Stax][Combo] Meren of Clan Nel Toth 95% RETIRED
UW [Primer][Competitive][Combo][Stax] Brago, King Eternal RETIRED
BR Rakdos, Lord of Riots (75%)
G Titania - 75%
W SRAM - Welcome to the cheeri0s jam 95%
U Teferi - stax 100%
R Neheb - janky mono red eggs combo 90%
B Gonti - 50% valuetown
I'm not sure if you just haven't updated yet, but just an FYI, I think I counted 103 cards in your deck.
Pretty cool combination of 3 very fun decks! I also love CoA as a general.
Pauper: Delver, Familiar Storm,
UR 8Post, Elves, Affinity, TEModern: Twin, Jund,
Eggs,Pod, Balance, Uxx ControlLegacy: Painter, Delver, Stoneblade, Elves, High Tide, Lands
Nope! haha whenever I post changes, I typically need a few days to update the entire primer to explain the changes. There are still many sections that need work. I will get to them in time
Yesterday I got to Maze's End the group again. Was pretty funny!
I'm currently looking to add in the following to help ramp and thin out the deck in a hurry
Land Tax, like many other ramp cards, works best early on. We only have a few basics, but that's all it takes is 1-2 triggers. Tusker is instant speed card draw and thinning.
GB [Primer][Competitive][Stax][Combo] Meren of Clan Nel Toth 95% RETIRED
UW [Primer][Competitive][Combo][Stax] Brago, King Eternal RETIRED
BR Rakdos, Lord of Riots (75%)
G Titania - 75%
W SRAM - Welcome to the cheeri0s jam 95%
U Teferi - stax 100%
R Neheb - janky mono red eggs combo 90%
B Gonti - 50% valuetown
BGU [Primer] Sidisi, Brood Tyrant BGU | BG [Primer] Mazirek, Kraul Death Priest BG | G [Primer] Polukranos, World Eater G
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Banned in commander or yeah, it would be in here. No doubt about it.
GB [Primer][Competitive][Stax][Combo] Meren of Clan Nel Toth 95% RETIRED
UW [Primer][Competitive][Combo][Stax] Brago, King Eternal RETIRED
BR Rakdos, Lord of Riots (75%)
G Titania - 75%
W SRAM - Welcome to the cheeri0s jam 95%
U Teferi - stax 100%
R Neheb - janky mono red eggs combo 90%
B Gonti - 50% valuetown
Some things to nitpick at. I don't think you run artifacts worth to enough to recur a lot of times via Academy Ruins. Since you're playing 5-colors, you have better options than Hull Breach. For one more mana, you can play vindicate or instant speed Beast Within.
Youre right and yup i did. Turns out its really effective at winning the game in a hurry. Figured my playgroup wouldnt let me do it, but I guess they will
And oh yes thanks for the ideas! I just picked up a vindicate and i have an extra beast within. Hull breach was just to be able to hit two targets for two mana, but beast within is less situational. I agree!
And yea, ruins is next on the cutting board, ive been playing nekusar too much lately. So great minds think alike i kind of wanna add in more draw, removal, or Noxious Revival to save something at instant speed when gravehate happens (alot to this deck).
GB [Primer][Competitive][Stax][Combo] Meren of Clan Nel Toth 95% RETIRED
UW [Primer][Competitive][Combo][Stax] Brago, King Eternal RETIRED
BR Rakdos, Lord of Riots (75%)
G Titania - 75%
W SRAM - Welcome to the cheeri0s jam 95%
U Teferi - stax 100%
R Neheb - janky mono red eggs combo 90%
B Gonti - 50% valuetown
-
+
Better faster answers. Plus, academy ruins has become less and less cool as time goes on. There arent any must keep artifacts like we have enchantments.
In addition, mystic remora, especially early on with all our ramp, will draw more cards, for 1 less
GB [Primer][Competitive][Stax][Combo] Meren of Clan Nel Toth 95% RETIRED
UW [Primer][Competitive][Combo][Stax] Brago, King Eternal RETIRED
BR Rakdos, Lord of Riots (75%)
G Titania - 75%
W SRAM - Welcome to the cheeri0s jam 95%
U Teferi - stax 100%
R Neheb - janky mono red eggs combo 90%
B Gonti - 50% valuetown
Please check ur article. Thk
Fixed it thank you.
GB [Primer][Competitive][Stax][Combo] Meren of Clan Nel Toth 95% RETIRED
UW [Primer][Competitive][Combo][Stax] Brago, King Eternal RETIRED
BR Rakdos, Lord of Riots (75%)
G Titania - 75%
W SRAM - Welcome to the cheeri0s jam 95%
U Teferi - stax 100%
R Neheb - janky mono red eggs combo 90%
B Gonti - 50% valuetown
i will have to give it a shot in my child deck.
liked the primer
My Blog - contains my decklists
Uril, The Miststalker
Frankie Peanuts - needs to move to multiplayer.
Thanks and yeah, i was on the fence about it as well, but just dont make it super obvious you want to win with it, and it works. Scapeshift woth mazes end out, float 3, and grab all the gates you dont have out, use mqze's end's triggered ability and win. Obviously youll only need to make sure no one has a strip mine waiting, or can counter scapeshift. They are more likely to strip valakut. Its a great rattlesnake.
GB [Primer][Competitive][Stax][Combo] Meren of Clan Nel Toth 95% RETIRED
UW [Primer][Competitive][Combo][Stax] Brago, King Eternal RETIRED
BR Rakdos, Lord of Riots (75%)
G Titania - 75%
W SRAM - Welcome to the cheeri0s jam 95%
U Teferi - stax 100%
R Neheb - janky mono red eggs combo 90%
B Gonti - 50% valuetown
Uhhh not really. Its just another permanent to be killed by child. It seems more cute than anything, but it can be of a little value. It's just, like with everything else, what do you cut? If i wanted to run something, into the wilds is much better for that purpose, and i dont have to reveal if i dont want to.
GB [Primer][Competitive][Stax][Combo] Meren of Clan Nel Toth 95% RETIRED
UW [Primer][Competitive][Combo][Stax] Brago, King Eternal RETIRED
BR Rakdos, Lord of Riots (75%)
G Titania - 75%
W SRAM - Welcome to the cheeri0s jam 95%
U Teferi - stax 100%
R Neheb - janky mono red eggs combo 90%
B Gonti - 50% valuetown
WU Rhystic Tron WU
WUBRG Snow-Go WUBRG
I like that it has a "may" option. I keep forgetting that. I will probably have to add it in in that case. I usually like keeping a full hand of removal/tutors/scapeshift, so i put adding that card off
I will work on acquiring one!
Ad nauseam, with 51 lands and an average cmc of 2.8, is still kind of meh for a draw spell. But when it hits what i need, it is invaluable. I usually just topdeck it when im low on life
GB [Primer][Competitive][Stax][Combo] Meren of Clan Nel Toth 95% RETIRED
UW [Primer][Competitive][Combo][Stax] Brago, King Eternal RETIRED
BR Rakdos, Lord of Riots (75%)
G Titania - 75%
W SRAM - Welcome to the cheeri0s jam 95%
U Teferi - stax 100%
R Neheb - janky mono red eggs combo 90%
B Gonti - 50% valuetown
I didn't want to mess with sweepers or spot removal too much, because I'm under the impression that Child of Alara saves you these slots. Ray of Revelation and Ancient Grudge are tutorable (Entomb), Punishing Fire is recurrable, Engineered Explosives is recurrable/tutorable, Krosan Grip is un-counterable/ flexible, and Abrupt Decay is un-counterable/ flexible.
I only have 1 counterspell in Forbid, and that's because it's pretty good with Life from the Loam online, and can discard things that you might not want in your hand when you don't have loam online(extra lands, Riftstone Portal, etc). I usually don't like counterspells too much in this format, but I like this one's synergy, and the late game possibilities of keeping the table off their spells.
all that aside I tried to keep the curve as low as possible to maximize the amount of cards i can draw off of ad nauseum to pursue a valakut/prismatic omen or maze's end wincon paired with manabond. I've added Traveler's Amulet to make the maze's end wincon more reasonable without having to pass the turn, and it's pretty good on its own with a fair amount of lands come into play tapped. With that said there's only a small subset of cards that are 4 or greater in casting cost due to this, and each of them impact the game a lot or can lead directly to a win.
Enjoy! (the list is a little different than the one I sent you originally gromgrom)
1 Academy Ruins
1 Azorius Guildgate
1 Badlands
1 Bayou
1 Blood Crypt
1 Bloodstained Mire
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Boros Guildgate
1 Boseiju, Who Shelters All
1 Breeding Pool
1 Cephalid Coliseum
1 Dark Depths
1 Dimir Guildgate
1 Dust Bowl
1 Flagstones of Trokair
1 Forgotten Cave
1 Glacial Chasm
1 Godless Shrine
1 Golgari Guildgate
1 Grove of the Burnwillows
1 Gruul Guildgate
1 High Market
1 Horizon Canopy
1 Izzet Guildgate
1 Marsh Flats
1 Maze of Ith
1 Maze's End
1 Misty Rainforest
1 Oboro, Palace in the Clouds
1 Orzhov Guildgate
1 Overgrown Tomb
1 Petrified Field
1 Polluted Delta
1 Rakdos Guildgate
1 Riftstone Portal
1 Savannah
1 Scrubland
1 Selesnya Guildgate
1 Simic Guildgate
1 Stomping Ground
1 Strip Mine
1 Taiga
1 Temple Garden
1 The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
1 Thespian's Stage
1 Tolaria West
1 Tranquil Thicket
1 Tropical Island
1 Underground Sea
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1 Valakut, the Molten Pinnacle
1 Verdant Catacombs
1 Volrath's Stronghold
1 Wasteland
1 Watery Grave
1 Windswept Heath
1 Wooded Foothills
1 Abrupt Decay
1 Ad Nauseam
1 Amulet of Vigor
1 Ancient Grudge
1 Crop Rotation
1 Crucible of Worlds
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Enlightened Tutor
1 Ensnaring Bridge
1 Entomb
1 Expedition Map
1 Exploration
1 Forbid
1 Gamble
1 Intuition
1 Krosan Grip
1 Life from the Loam
1 Manabond
1 Meekstone
1 Mindslaver
1 Mox Diamond
1 Mystical Tutor
1 Prismatic Omen
1 Punishing Fire
1 Ray of Revelation
1 Realms Uncharted
1 Scapeshift
1 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Smokestack
1 Sylvan Library
1 Tormod's Crypt
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Worm Harvest
1 Zuran Orb
1 Azusa, Lost but Seeking
1 Dark Confidant
1 Eternal Witness
1 Knight of the Reliquary
1 Trinket Mage
1 Vampire Hexmage
1 Weathered Wayfarer
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1. I understand some of this may be due to your meta, but why no basic lands? My meta is slowly ramping up the nonbasic hate. A single Ruination will, no pun intended, ruin your day.
2. In addition, no yawgmoth's will? Figure thatd be great for your build since you focus heavily on the graveyard.
3. Also you do have some draw (if i could afford confidant i would run him), but do you ever find yourself running out of gas?
4. I cut tabernacle as it rarely pulls its weight in my games (token decks on the decline), and it got in the way of my worm tokens. Plus the price tag, i couldnt justify it. That was merely my experience though
5. Meekstone and ensaring bridge really hurt marit lage hard. And knight of the reliquary with meekstone is a nono. I found it better to use glacial chasm and maze of ith aggressively. They, like tabernacle and the tokens, dont synergize that well. However, meekstone and tokens DO synergize.
6. I cut academy ruins as i rarely wanted to recur artifacts. Theyre just gravy now in mu build. Also, that bauble searches for only basics, which you arent really running flagstones should be in my build to grab revised duals.
But i have to hand it to ya, thats a really nice build man. I love how you made the graveyard strategy look great and synergize well. Two thumbs up. Please keep me up to date here with your results and findings!
Excuse spelling, sent from a mobile device
GB [Primer][Competitive][Stax][Combo] Meren of Clan Nel Toth 95% RETIRED
UW [Primer][Competitive][Combo][Stax] Brago, King Eternal RETIRED
BR Rakdos, Lord of Riots (75%)
G Titania - 75%
W SRAM - Welcome to the cheeri0s jam 95%
U Teferi - stax 100%
R Neheb - janky mono red eggs combo 90%
B Gonti - 50% valuetown
Ruination can "ruin" your day, but i'm the type who likes to play through the hate, and recovering from those types of effects aren't too hard in this build i would imagine, since more often than not you can top deck lands out of it. Plus, recurring lands is what the deck is best at, so having them all destroyed should only merely be a roadblock. this is all theory though, since i've not played one full game with this list yet.
It's definitely a card that was on top of the list to bring in once i find weaker cards in the current 99!
I can't say I have or have not. Like i said before; this was just me fleshing out a list that i felt decent about in theory. I could be totally off base with my choices and the amount of redundancy, but I'm hoping to get some games in this weekend.
Tabernacle is nice against tokens, but I think where it really shines is just aggro or any deck that wants to win by attacking over many turns in general, being able to basically leave them to what's on board is more valuable than what any of the other lands have to offer. I have Edric and Rafiq in my meta, so it really pulls weight there.
Knight of the Reliquary is only 1 card, and more often than not it's just a land tutor that makes your harvest bigger. Marit Lage is usually going to be my last means of winning and by that time I probably don't have that kind of stabilization on board to mess with it.
academy ruins is very good here. It recurs just about all your removal from Tormod's crypt to engineered explosives, and Crucible of Worlds. Ruins is also an important piece to Intuition piles when gunning for mindslaver or Crucible.
I appreciate the kind words, and thanks for the inspiration with your own creation. i'll certainly keep you and everyone else reading this thread up to date with my findings!
Keep it coming, haha
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So I found a card today looking at old GaT lists, and that is Meloku the clouded Mirror. Seems pretty good with the manabond plan turning your lands into evasive 1/1's and getting to replay all your lands again at eot.
Some changes i'm making are fitting in Bazaar of Baghdad. I don't know why i overlooked this card, but this will probably replace Cephalid Colisseum. i'm most likely going to cut Krosan Grip and Abrupt Decay because between Punishing Fire, Ray, and Grudge they take care of a lot and are fitting into what the deck already wants to do. also, cutting Trinket mage, because his toolbox really doesn't warrant his inclusion like i had previously thought. I usually didn't like drawing him without something already set up.
for now i've added:
Realmwright in for KGrip "Good Call gromgrom"
Oracle of Mul Daya in for decay
Yawgmoth's Will in for trinket mage
Bazaar of Baghdad in for Cephalid collisseum
I do want to test meloku, because it just seems insane especially as a card that can be a pseudo protection against MLD. I also am considering Tomb of Urami for the same reason, but less so as meloku.
I would also like to be able to fit Regrowth in aswell
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