I played the knight a long time ago in my teysa list, where it was quite solid. I think in this deck siege-gang could be preferable due to the goblin interaction. Peacekeeper is worth it if you are getting targeted very heavily via combat damage but in my aggro combo list I feel like it doesn't hit faster combo decks, which are more dangerous to this deck and is useless without Alesha as it hinders my own gameplan.
I'm also looking at building a midrange rather than aggro-combo Alesha list and both of these would probably be in there as they are very good with Alesha and useful in stopping a lot of other decks.
Have you considered Workhorse and Treasonous Ogre? The workhorse is probably too cute at 6 mana, but reanimating it seems decent. The ogre is really good in my playgroup, but we usually win through infinite amounts of damage so the 3 life is nothing.
Red Elemental Blast and Pyroblast? If you don't have a lot of blue in your meta, I can understand not running them, but they're mandatory in my playgroup. Imp's Mischief is really good protection too.
38 lands seems excessive - why not cut one of your duplicate basics for Sensei's Divining Top? Given the number of fetches you run, Scroll Rack seems like it could be a good add too. I think you could go lower then 37, but I'm not sure how safe that would be without additional ramp or cheap draw.
Thanks for commenting.
I currently have workhorse in my Marchesa deck where it fulfills a strong role, but I feel here it is too weak to go through the hoops of re animating it, while at six mama to cast it should really win the game. Treasonous ogre is likewise a great card in my Marchesa deck, and here it would make the cut if it produced white or black mana. As the deck is rather color heavy, and needs very little red mana, it doesn't do enough here. If your list has more uses for red mana it becomes much better and definitely worth including.
On Res Elemental Blast and Pyroblast: these are very meta dependent, and I can well imagine including them in the deck. In general the removal section of the deck is highly customisable. If containment priest isn't as great in your meta, REB can be a good substitute. Right now I think the cards currently in the deck are more broadly useful. Imp's Mischief I had forgotten about, I will test it out and let you know.
Top could replace a basic land probably yes, I will try taking out blackcleave cliffs for it. Scroll rack is too slow I think and has too little synergies such as miracles to make it worth it here.
Have you played Alesha as well? It would be great to hear more about your deck and your card choices.
I can not express how happy I found this link.
I've been looking for sweet EDH decks that would be fun to play and suited my playstyle. I began by playing Kaalia, then to Xenagos, then to mono white weenies Thalia. I really thought about the kind of decks I like playing, and one card that caught my attention was Brutal Hordechief. I was initially going to play Zurgo as my commander because I couldn't think of another Mardu legendary creature, but thank goodness I found Alesha.
Well i just went off on a tangent but, damn, I love the deck idea. I will definitely use your list as a reference and a backbone. Thanks alot!
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"With great power comes the risk of getting yourself killed"
"I've been all over this world. I even remember some of those places"
"The more victims he kills, the more likely he is to get the right one"
"Music means nothing until brought to life by an imaginative, sympathetic player. It is the function of the interpreter to refract the message of the composer through the prism of his own mind. Otherwise a robot could do the same"
Nice deck, but I have few questions/suggestions/opinions.
Containment priest - it shut down Aleshas ability. Its quite contraproductive to have in deck Goblin Matron - you have Kiki and Grenzo more. So 3 goblins. If you draw him AFTER Kiki or Grenzo, it is dead draw and quite useless Master of Cruelties - i see you kicked him out, but why? with Entomb, it is oneshot and enemy won't expect it probably Cataclysm - you have no artifact color mana producer, so if you won't have land in hadn and cast this, you end with 1 land, SolRing or Mana crypt and probably alesha, so you will not have a way how to activate her ability Hushwing Gryff - shuts down your Sun Titan, Stoneforge, Purphoros, Mentor of the Meek, Relic Warden, Karmic Guide, Imperial recruiter, Goblin Matron, Fiend Hunter and Body snatcher. Too much creatures, also if you have Gryff out and no real way how to kill it (which can happen), all of these cards will be useless.
Also, I am not convinced in Athreos, 3 life is not that much for crucial things with toughness over 2 and for others it don't care if you have them back in hand. sometimes it is even better, because you cannot return them from GY with Alesha. and if they cost more than 2CMC, its even better they end in your hand.
Have you played Alesha as well? It would be great to hear more about your deck and your card choices.
My Alesha deck is currently terrible, built out of 'edh binder' cards, so there's not much point in putting a list up here (I'm reanimating things like Burnished Hart and Dark Imposter). I'm working on getting a bunch of upgrades for her, I'll be posting that list in a few weeks.
Reconnaissance is a card I'm definitely going to pick up for her, thanks for the suggestion there.
A note on the hatebears OP is playing - I imagine that OP plays in a meta such that all of the bears he's running (Containment Priest in particular) are more effective against his opponents then against him. Remember that until the bear is killed, they can't win, and you can function as a passable Mardu aggro deck. I'm not sure Alesha wants to be disruptive on that axis but it's worth investigating.
Goblin Matron is to hit critical tutor density. It'll be rare that you draw him after both Kiki and Grenzo - the games that you don't draw them far make up for the ones that you do.
capitacom - I might be missing something here but how does your deck keep Alesha, Who Smiles at Death alive? In order to utilize her ability and reanimate creatures, you'll need to attack with her. I don't see anything in your deck that gives her any sort of evasion or indestructibility to ensure that you can continue her shenanigans, especially in the late game.
capitacom - I might be missing something here but how does your deck keep Alesha, Who Smiles at Death alive? In order to utilize her ability and reanimate creatures, you'll need to attack with her. I don't see anything in your deck that gives her any sort of evasion or indestructibility to ensure that you can continue her shenanigans, especially in the late game.
The manabase is really bad, I'd like to play 9 Fetches, 3 Duals, 3 Shocks, 3 Pains, 3 Filters.
If your meta is skewed towards certain colors like mine is, Swords are a fine way of protecting her. I need to add in the cards mentioned in this thread to protect the creatures she reanimates. Kiki-Jiki and Blood Artist will go in when I get them, probably replacing Mike+Trike unless I can find room for something else to go. I only own one set of black tutors which is why I don't have any in this deck (other then the graveyard ones) but I'd remove the slower draw cards for them if I had more copies. The most glaring omission by far is Reveillark - he 100% belongs in this deck, I just don't have one.
Well i just went off on a tangent but, damn, I love the deck idea. I will definitely use your list as a reference and a backbone. Thanks alot!
Thanks. I'm glad you like the deck and if you ever want me to take a look at your list you're welcome to post it in this thread or somewhere else on the site and I'll be happy to discus.
Nice deck, but I have few questions/suggestions/opinions.
Containment priest - it shut down Aleshas ability. Its quite contraproductive to have in deck Goblin Matron - you have Kiki and Grenzo more. So 3 goblins. If you draw him AFTER Kiki or Grenzo, it is dead draw and quite useless Master of Cruelties - i see you kicked him out, but why? with Entomb, it is oneshot and enemy won't expect it probably Cataclysm - you have no artifact color mana producer, so if you won't have land in hadn and cast this, you end with 1 land, SolRing or Mana crypt and probably alesha, so you will not have a way how to activate her ability Hushwing Gryff - shuts down your Sun Titan, Stoneforge, Purphoros, Mentor of the Meek, Relic Warden, Karmic Guide, Imperial recruiter, Goblin Matron, Fiend Hunter and Body snatcher. Too much creatures, also if you have Gryff out and no real way how to kill it (which can happen), all of these cards will be useless.
Also, I am not convinced in Athreos, 3 life is not that much for crucial things with toughness over 2 and for others it don't care if you have them back in hand. sometimes it is even better, because you cannot return them from GY with Alesha. and if they cost more than 2CMC, its even better they end in your hand.
Containment Priest : I agree and I have switched it out for Aven Mindcensor which doesn't hinder you.
Hushwing Gryff : Generally I only play this when I have a sac outlet handy or at moments when it really has a great effect. I see it more as a counterspell, and being such a removal magnet it generally doesn't last a turn cycle either before someone gets rid of it somehow.
Goblin Matron : There is actually Goblin Rabblemaster as well so that makes three targets. Each of the individual targets is so powerful though that I think it is still worth the limited tutor and any tutor on a stick is insane with Alesha or cards like Phyrexian Reclamation .
Cataclycm : This deck isn't the type of deck that can really capitalize on it when it is ahead (unlike Kaalia), yet I have still found it to be a useful reset button. It gets rid of a lot of annoying stuff and when you're behind it can even the playing field a lot.
Master of Cruelties : Although it works well as a surprise kill with Entomb , outside of that it is very lackluster. I didn't really like it that much in my Kaalia deck either and there it required less setup than here. I try to avoid cards that are only good with Alesha as well.
Athreos, God of the Passage : On this you are completely right and I have now removed it for Iroas, God of Victory . In Kaalia it was very strong, now with Alesha it is lackluster as you say.
Thanks for your great points.
Reconnaissance should be almost an auto include. Have to protect our "girl" and her new friends.
Personally I don't really like Reconnaissance that much. It's a good card, but it is mostly good with Alesha and doesn't really do much outside of it. In my list, where Alesha is often a bit of a backup plan and combos are the main plan I think it doesn't do enough. If you're list relies much more on Alesha than it becomes a great card to use.
My Alesha deck is currently terrible, built out of 'edh binder' cards, so there's not much point in putting a list up here (I'm reanimating things like Burnished Hart and Dark Imposter). I'm working on getting a bunch of upgrades for her, I'll be posting that list in a few weeks.
A note on the hatebears OP is playing - I imagine that OP plays in a meta such that all of the bears he's running (Containment Priest in particular) are more effective against his opponents then against him. Remember that until the bear is killed, they can't win, and you can function as a passable Mardu aggro deck. I'm not sure Alesha wants to be disruptive on that axis but it's worth investigating.
Goblin Matron is to hit critical tutor density. It'll be rare that you draw him after both Kiki and Grenzo - the games that you don't draw them far make up for the ones that you do.
Exactly right on both accounts. The hatebears hurt my opponent more and are easy to remove in this deck with all the sac outlets. The cards Goblin Matron finds are so good that it becomes worth it just to find those three targets.
capitacom - I might be missing something here but how does your deck keep Alesha, Who Smiles at Death alive? In order to utilize her ability and reanimate creatures, you'll need to attack with her. I don't see anything in your deck that gives her any sort of evasion or indestructibility to ensure that you can continue her shenanigans, especially in the late game.
You're right that my deck is light on protection, but using Alesha isn't always my main plan with this deck. I did just add Iroas, God of Victory which should help out in this department. Elspeth, Knight Errant also works quite well with Alesha.
I just added Iroas, God of Victory to test it, its a great idea. Dauthi Embrace is too mana intensive and I think Dolmen Gate and Reconnaissance are unnecessary. If your list relies more on Alesha than mine, each of these suggestions would be great though.
-Angelforge: Some comments/suggestions on your list.
I like the look of your list, especially the heavy reanimation aspect. Let me know how this works out. Does your list have no artifacts or did they get lost in posting the list?
It seems that you don't have that many creatures. Have you had problems with making use of Alesha's ability? Is there any reason you chose to play more spells over creatures?
With respect to your manabase, you can also make it a virtue by cutting some of the more difficult things to cast ( Necropotence , Vampire Hexmage , Sudden Spoiling , etc. and then playing Blood Moon and Magus of the Moon .
In general I think you can cut some spells for similar effects on creatures. Alesha's ability in general makes creatures much more valuable. You also have few sacrifice outlets. Adding a couple like Viscera Seer , Cartel Aristocrat and Goblin Bombardment can allow you to reuse your ETB effects.
How have you found Elspeth, Sun's Champion and Liliana of the Veil to be? I should try to find some room for them in my list as well as they should work very well in my list too.
Treasonous Ogre is also an insane card in this style of deck, it allows us to deploy extra threats early in the game while also having the ability to become larger than a 2/3, not to mention you can also recur him with Alesha. It would be nice if we could use the mana he generated on Alesha's ability but I am fine with paying three life and essentially adding a colorless mana to start throw down two or three dudes on turn 5. I would definitely try and test with him if you haven't.
I also think that Reconnaissance is fine. It allows you to attack freely on a cluttered board using Alesha's ability. While not only protecting her but the creature she brings back who can potentially win you the game if it is the missing combo piece you need.
I forgot to post the artifacts, I updated the list.
I definitely don't run enough creatures. I played a few games with her last night and never had a strong graveyard. I'm going to add more of them before I play tonight, I'll post back in with the changes after I play. I know I have a Seer and Aristocrat around, I'm also going to add Disciple of Bolas (cutting Ambition's Cost).
On the manabase - I'm going to try to get the lands asap. I just wanted to comment on it being a known issue. I think Magus of the Moon deserves a spot here without Blood Moon once I get the fetches (at least in my meta), as you can tutor basics out in preparation for it and knock players out of the game with one card.
I like Siege-Gang Commander if you're running Goblin Matron. It also fuels Dread Return flashback post-combat which is great.
Reconnaissance seems like a pure meta choice. It would have been completely dead in 2 out of the 3 games I played last night. In another of my playgroups, it'll be live every game. Basically: in U[x] combo meta it's not great, G[x] aggro it's a lot better.
I haven't drawn either of the planeswalkers yet, so I can't comment on how good they are in Alesha. In Marath where I can control power and toughness, Elspeth is a onesided recurring boardwipe that's easy to protect. Most of Alesha survives her as well. She also protects herself quite well in my meta - no one runs pro-white Swords. In Prossh midrange, Liliana trades for cards really well (2 of your cards for 3 of the tables on the first activation) and protects herself well early. She's filling the same role here, with the additional upside of being able to use the cards you pitch through Alesha. If you play in a meta with more earlygame creature aggression she might not be so great.
Do Barbed Shocker Shocker belong here as additional disruption?
Sengir Autocrat
Pawn of Ulamog
Marsh Flitter
Nether Traitor
I'm still currently in the process of making a Alesha EDH deck but I wanted to heavily focus on going wide.
Hellrider and Brutal Hordechief are the cards that got me thinking of making a mardu EDH deck in the first place, and I wanted to abuse that. I'm currently using capitacom's list as my reference, but I wanted to go a slightly different route.
What would you say are the staple cards that an Alesha EDH deck must have?
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"With great power comes the risk of getting yourself killed"
"I've been all over this world. I even remember some of those places"
"The more victims he kills, the more likely he is to get the right one"
"Music means nothing until brought to life by an imaginative, sympathetic player. It is the function of the interpreter to refract the message of the composer through the prism of his own mind. Otherwise a robot could do the same"
Treasonous Ogre is also an insane card in this style of deck, it allows us to deploy extra threats early in the game while also having the ability to become larger than a 2/3, not to mention you can also recur him with Alesha. It would be nice if we could use the mana he generated on Alesha's ability but I am fine with paying three life and essentially adding a colorless mana to start throw down two or three dudes on turn 5. I would definitely try and test with him if you haven't.
I also think that Reconnaissance is fine. It allows you to attack freely on a cluttered board using Alesha's ability. While not only protecting her but the creature she brings back who can potentially win you the game if it is the missing combo piece you need.
I will reconsider Siege-Gang Commander . It is indeed quite good both on an empty board as well as an Alesha target. I'm not really sure what to cut for it. Perhaps Unburial Rites which is less necessary now with Alesha's ability and is generally very mana intensive and mostly useful as an Entomb target (for which we have enough great targets already). Similarly I will look again at Treasonous Ogre , although I think the lifeloss is very high in a deck which already uses its life total in other ways and in addition can't really make good use of red mana, mostly of colorless mana. Reconnaissance is very much a card that depends on your specific list. I added in Iroas in mine, which has the same effects but is indestructible and useful outside of protecting Alesha by allowing your creatures to be semi-unblockable as well.
On the manabase - I'm going to try to get the lands asap. I just wanted to comment on it being a known issue. I think Magus of the Moon deserves a spot here without Blood Moon once I get the fetches (at least in my meta), as you can tutor basics out in preparation for it and knock players out of the game with one card.
I haven't drawn either of the planeswalkers yet, so I can't comment on how good they are in Alesha. In Marath where I can control power and toughness, Elspeth is a onesided recurring boardwipe that's easy to protect. Most of Alesha survives her as well. She also protects herself quite well in my meta - no one runs pro-white Swords. In Prossh midrange, Liliana trades for cards really well (2 of your cards for 3 of the tables on the first activation) and protects herself well early. She's filling the same role here, with the additional upside of being able to use the cards you pitch through Alesha. If you play in a meta with more earlygame creature aggression she might not be so great.
Do Barbed Shocker Shocker belong here as additional disruption?
Yeah, Magus of the Moon can definitely steal games. I'm really looking forward to hearing more of how your choices play out. Dread Return also seems like a useful option over Unburial Rites in my list with the greater number of token producers in the list. The more I think of it, with the discard being able to fuel Alesha and the creature removal being great too, Liliana of the Veil should really find a spot in here. I'm not sure what to cut for it yet, but I'm quite sure it will get a spot. The Retribution of the Meek + token production + potential emblem combination in one card with Elspeth seems great as well, but maybe six mana is too.
I don't really like giving my opponents new cards so I would not include Barbed Shocker . Unless your opponents are really sculpting their hands it does not seem worth it.
Sengir Autocrat
Pawn of Ulamog
Marsh Flitter
Nether Traitor
I'm still currently in the process of making a Alesha EDH deck but I wanted to heavily focus on going wide.
Hellrider and Brutal Hordechief are the cards that got me thinking of making a mardu EDH deck in the first place, and I wanted to abuse that. I'm currently using capitacom's list as my reference, but I wanted to go a slightly different route.
What would you say are the staple cards that an Alesha EDH deck must have?
I think Sengir Autocrat and Marsh Flitter are rather underpowered at 4 mana. Pawn of Ulamog can be good, but it is in my experience always a bit win-more. If you're already in the position that you can freely sacrifice other creatures, you pretty well off anyway. If you have no board it doesn't do anything. Nether Traitor is very good if you have more of an aggro or equipment focus as the shadow is really great for that. Hellrider is also great if you want to go the aggro route. Aurelia, the Warleader can also be a good addition then.
Viscera Seer is now just better than Cartel Aristocrat after I took out Angel of Glory's Rise . I'm trying out Malicious Affliction to see how often I can get the 2 for 1 and how often the non-black clause comes up. Aven Mindcensor doesn't hinder our own deck and is a great hate card as well. Athreos, God of the Passage isn't as effective as before, and protecting Alesha and helping to deal damage should make Iroas, God of Victory quite good here. The last two changes are just Knight of the White Orchid for a land, as it can be recurred with Alesha easily and is a great 2 for 1 and Sensei's Divining Top for a land as well. As the deck has gotten grindier, Top is also better now than before. The deck still has enough lands with 36 + Crypt / Sol Ring and Tithe , Knight of the White Orchid and other draw cards.
I don't remember all the switches I made and I didn't get a lot of games in last night, but this is my current list: http://deckbox.org/sets/904737
Leonin Relic-Warder is fantastic, I'll need to find one for my deck. Kataki, War's Wage is another option for artifact hate. I'm not sold on Ophiomancer or Rabblemaster. I haven't played with either of them, but they seem a bit slow. Are there cheaper CMC token-makers like Geist-Honored Monk (ie ones that put tokens into play immediately) that we can play instead? I don't think winning via power <= 2 swarm is a good primary gameplan.
Just a question. I see that you have Fiend Hunter and Leonin Relic-Warder as for targets for Alesha, but if they get chumped and die, it doesn't really do anything. The creature/artifact/enchantment will get exiled and then come back as soon as they die in combat. I mean, if they are in there for the Alesha synergy, is it even good?
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"With great power comes the risk of getting yourself killed"
"I've been all over this world. I even remember some of those places"
"The more victims he kills, the more likely he is to get the right one"
"Music means nothing until brought to life by an imaginative, sympathetic player. It is the function of the interpreter to refract the message of the composer through the prism of his own mind. Otherwise a robot could do the same"
You can sac them in response to their ETB ability to keep the target permanently exiled. It's LTB ability will resolve first, returning nothing to play, then it's ETB ability will resolve, exiling a target (i.e. gone forever). Note the difference in wording between those cards (and Oblivion Ring) and the new one Banishing Light.
I don't remember all the switches I made and I didn't get a lot of games in last night, but this is my current list: http://deckbox.org/sets/904737
Leonin Relic-Warder is fantastic, I'll need to find one for my deck. Kataki, War's Wage is another option for artifact hate. I'm not sold on Ophiomancer or Rabblemaster. I haven't played with either of them, but they seem a bit slow. Are there cheaper CMC token-makers like Geist-Honored Monk (ie ones that put tokens into play immediately) that we can play instead? I don't think winning via power <= 2 swarm is a good primary gameplan.
Both Ophiomancer and Goblin Rabblemaster are pretty insane and quick token producers as well. I'd put them far above the more expensive cmc token producers. Ophiomancer, Purphoros and a sac outlet is already enough to kill your opponents in a couple of turn cycles. And Rabblemaster starts producing goblins right away. I would try them out a bit more and I think you'll be surprise by them. Bladesplicer is pretty good as an instant token maker though.
The Salvagers combo is really a great idea, although it doesn't fit in the creature combo version of Alesha as its pieces aren't useful in a vacuum. I think you could build a great artifact Alesha deck in which this combo could be really great. I'll try to theory craft a list this week if I have time.
Just a question. I see that you have Fiend Hunter and Leonin Relic-Warder as for targets for Alesha, but if they get chumped and die, it doesn't really do anything. The creature/artifact/enchantment will get exiled and then come back as soon as they die in combat. I mean, if they are in there for the Alesha synergy, is it even good?
Angelforce answered your question perfectly. I just wanted to add though that Fiend Hunter also goes infinite with Sun Titan.
If we do consider a dread return/unburial rights package in this deck would you consider Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite? I know we want to try and combo off/be an aggro deck, but I feel at time Alesha can have problems closing out a game. She provides and immediate effect unlike Angel of Thune, however I wouldn't swap these cards out since they are both insanely powerful. Plus Elesh clears a way for our creatures to get in.
If you are looking for additional ways to close out the game then Elesh Norn is probably the best one there is. Depending on your creature base Angel of Glory's Rise can also be a game ender.
-1 Knight-Captain of Eos
-1 Night's Whisper
-1 Sign in Blood
-1 Triskellion
-1 Mikaeus, the Unhallowed
-1 Plains
-1 Swamp
+1 Sword of Feast and Famine
+1 Steelshaper's Gift
+1 Zealous Conscripts
+1 Kiki-Jiki, Mirror-Breaker
+1 Ambition's Cost
+1 High Market
+1 Phyrexian Tower
Straightforward changes for the most part. I'm running Swords as my primary protection for Alesha and FaF has a great effect. The discard is particularly nasty in my meta. I never got to play with Knight-Captain of Eos, but he seemed like a weaker version of Geist-Honored Monk in that she is both defensive (Vigilance) and aggressive (*/* body), wheras the Knight-Captain is purely defense. The Knight-Captain stops opponent's Sword and Jitte triggers which is pretty good so he might work his way back into the list at some point. I needed more sac outlets, so out come basics and in go nonbasics.
Should we play Memory Jar? It says draw 7, and you can use it on someone else's turn as disruption. We can keep using the cards after we discard them with Alesha, and it doesn't create negative CA like Wheel does. Seems worth including but 5 mana is a lot, especially without a way to recur it.
Let me know how Geist-Honored Monk works out for you. I can imagine it being quite good but I feel it's also a bit slow at 5 cmc. Memory Jar seems great if you have interaction with artifacts in your list, for example by adding Goblin Welder. Otherwise I think wheel is better and even it isn't that necessary with the great card draw we already have. Although we can make use of cards we discard, that's only creatures with power 2 or less. Others are already much more difficult and we have few ways to get back artifacts and enchantments. To help this I'm thinking of adding auramamcer to recur enchantments and goblin welder for artifacts. Are there any other creatures which recur artifacts right away?
I'm also looking at adding a Heliod's Pilgrim package although it may be too weak. Animate Dead , Splinter Twin / Gift of Immortality, and Chained to the Rocks could already be a pretty solid package, although space in the list is already very tight. Recurrable tutors are very good with Alesha though, even if the pilgrim is a bit less powerful than Recruiter, Mystic and Matron. What do you think?
-1 Knight-Captain of Eos
-1 Night's Whisper
-1 Sign in Blood
-1 Triskellion
-1 Mikaeus, the Unhallowed
-1 Plains
-1 Swamp
+1 Sword of Feast and Famine
+1 Steelshaper's Gift
+1 Zealous Conscripts
+1 Kiki-Jiki, Mirror-Breaker
+1 Ambition's Cost
+1 High Market
+1 Phyrexian Tower
Straightforward changes for the most part. I'm running Swords as my primary protection for Alesha and FaF has a great effect. The discard is particularly nasty in my meta. I never got to play with Knight-Captain of Eos, but he seemed like a weaker version of Geist-Honored Monk in that she is both defensive (Vigilance) and aggressive (*/* body), wheras the Knight-Captain is purely defense. The Knight-Captain stops opponent's Sword and Jitte triggers which is pretty good so he might work his way back into the list at some point. I needed more sac outlets, so out come basics and in go nonbasics.
Should we play Memory Jar? It says draw 7, and you can use it on someone else's turn as disruption. We can keep using the cards after we discard them with Alesha, and it doesn't create negative CA like Wheel does. Seems worth including but 5 mana is a lot, especially without a way to recur it.
Taking a look at your list from above again I still feel like you are really creature light. I think you could easily just cut out the signets, lanter, ingot, mindstone, and talisman for dudes.
Let me know how Geist-Honored Monk works out for you. I can imagine it being quite good but I feel it's also a bit slow at 5 cmc. Memory Jar seems great if you have interaction with artifacts in your list, for example by adding Goblin Welder. Otherwise I think wheel is better and even it isn't that necessary with the great card draw we already have. Although we can make use of cards we discard, that's only creatures with power 2 or less. Others are already much more difficult and we have few ways to get back artifacts and enchantments. To help this I'm thinking of adding auramamcer to recur enchantments and goblin welder for artifacts. Are there any other creatures which recur artifacts right away?
I'm also looking at adding a Heliod's Pilgrim package although it may be too weak. Animate Dead , Splinter Twin / Gift of Immortality, and Chained to the Rocks could already be a pretty solid package, although space in the list is already very tight. Recurrable tutors are very good with Alesha though, even if the pilgrim is a bit less powerful than Recruiter, Mystic and Matron. What do you think?
I think Geist-Honored Monk is a fine addition to the deck. I am, however, not really sold on Memory Jar, like capitacom said if you choose to stick with all the artifact ramp I think it is fine, but 5 mana is a lot, I think I would want to do something else with that mana.
Heliod's Pilgrim is cute, being able to tutor up animate dead is really powerful and I have always been a fan of Splinter Twin even if we can't really combo with it and just use it for value. It seems pretty good if we have Purphoros, God of the Forge and splinter twin on say a siege gang commander.
I will probably consider a small aura package in the future.
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Knight-Captain of Eos
Peacekeeper
RGWMayael the AnimaRGW
UBRMarchesa, the Black RoseUBR
Modern Decks
RGWNaya BurnRGW
I'm also looking at building a midrange rather than aggro-combo Alesha list and both of these would probably be in there as they are very good with Alesha and useful in stopping a lot of other decks.
BRWC Mardu Shops - Tymna and Akiri Artifacts BRWC
Red Elemental Blast and Pyroblast? If you don't have a lot of blue in your meta, I can understand not running them, but they're mandatory in my playgroup. Imp's Mischief is really good protection too.
38 lands seems excessive - why not cut one of your duplicate basics for Sensei's Divining Top? Given the number of fetches you run, Scroll Rack seems like it could be a good add too. I think you could go lower then 37, but I'm not sure how safe that would be without additional ramp or cheap draw.
Relaxed EDH: BROlivia VampiresRB
#FreeBraids
I currently have workhorse in my Marchesa deck where it fulfills a strong role, but I feel here it is too weak to go through the hoops of re animating it, while at six mama to cast it should really win the game. Treasonous ogre is likewise a great card in my Marchesa deck, and here it would make the cut if it produced white or black mana. As the deck is rather color heavy, and needs very little red mana, it doesn't do enough here. If your list has more uses for red mana it becomes much better and definitely worth including.
On Res Elemental Blast and Pyroblast: these are very meta dependent, and I can well imagine including them in the deck. In general the removal section of the deck is highly customisable. If containment priest isn't as great in your meta, REB can be a good substitute. Right now I think the cards currently in the deck are more broadly useful. Imp's Mischief I had forgotten about, I will test it out and let you know.
Top could replace a basic land probably yes, I will try taking out blackcleave cliffs for it. Scroll rack is too slow I think and has too little synergies such as miracles to make it worth it here.
Have you played Alesha as well? It would be great to hear more about your deck and your card choices.
BRWC Mardu Shops - Tymna and Akiri Artifacts BRWC
I've been looking for sweet EDH decks that would be fun to play and suited my playstyle. I began by playing Kaalia, then to Xenagos, then to mono white weenies Thalia. I really thought about the kind of decks I like playing, and one card that caught my attention was Brutal Hordechief. I was initially going to play Zurgo as my commander because I couldn't think of another Mardu legendary creature, but thank goodness I found Alesha.
Well i just went off on a tangent but, damn, I love the deck idea. I will definitely use your list as a reference and a backbone. Thanks alot!
"I've been all over this world. I even remember some of those places"
"The more victims he kills, the more likely he is to get the right one"
"Music means nothing until brought to life by an imaginative, sympathetic player. It is the function of the interpreter to refract the message of the composer through the prism of his own mind. Otherwise a robot could do the same"
Containment priest - it shut down Aleshas ability. Its quite contraproductive to have in deck
Goblin Matron - you have Kiki and Grenzo more. So 3 goblins. If you draw him AFTER Kiki or Grenzo, it is dead draw and quite useless
Master of Cruelties - i see you kicked him out, but why? with Entomb, it is oneshot and enemy won't expect it probably
Cataclysm - you have no artifact color mana producer, so if you won't have land in hadn and cast this, you end with 1 land, SolRing or Mana crypt and probably alesha, so you will not have a way how to activate her ability
Hushwing Gryff - shuts down your Sun Titan, Stoneforge, Purphoros, Mentor of the Meek, Relic Warden, Karmic Guide, Imperial recruiter, Goblin Matron, Fiend Hunter and Body snatcher. Too much creatures, also if you have Gryff out and no real way how to kill it (which can happen), all of these cards will be useless.
Also, I am not convinced in Athreos, 3 life is not that much for crucial things with toughness over 2 and for others it don't care if you have them back in hand. sometimes it is even better, because you cannot return them from GY with Alesha. and if they cost more than 2CMC, its even better they end in your hand.
My Alesha deck is currently terrible, built out of 'edh binder' cards, so there's not much point in putting a list up here (I'm reanimating things like Burnished Hart and Dark Imposter). I'm working on getting a bunch of upgrades for her, I'll be posting that list in a few weeks.
Reconnaissance is a card I'm definitely going to pick up for her, thanks for the suggestion there.
A note on the hatebears OP is playing - I imagine that OP plays in a meta such that all of the bears he's running (Containment Priest in particular) are more effective against his opponents then against him. Remember that until the bear is killed, they can't win, and you can function as a passable Mardu aggro deck. I'm not sure Alesha wants to be disruptive on that axis but it's worth investigating.
Goblin Matron is to hit critical tutor density. It'll be rare that you draw him after both Kiki and Grenzo - the games that you don't draw them far make up for the ones that you do.
Relaxed EDH: BROlivia VampiresRB
#FreeBraids
Dolmen Gate is a powerhouse card in this respect. Almost as much as Reconnaissance.
I also play Iroas, God of Victory, Darksteel Plate, Whispersilk Cloak, and Dauthi Embrace for the majority of my combat survival tech.
Dauthi Embrace is fantastic if you use cards like Master of Cruelties or Blinding Angel although it's fairly B intensive if you're light on that color.
1 Alesha, who Smiles at Death
//Creatures
1 Triskelion
1 Angel of Glory's Rise
1 Restoration Angel
1 Karmic Guide
1 Aven Mindcensor
1 Master of Cruelties
1 Fiend Hunter
1 Knight-Captain of Eos
1 Sadistic Hypnotist
1 Geist-Honored Monk
1 Mentor of the Meek
1 Dark Confidant
1 Stoneforge Mystic
1 Treasonous Ogre
1 Falkenrath Aristocrat
1 Vampire Hexmage
1 Grand Abolisher
1 Mikaeus, the Unhallowed
//Enchantments
1 Blind Obedience
1 Contamination
1 Necropotence
1 Phyrexian Arena
1 Phyrexian Reclamation
//Sorceries
1 Ambition's Cost
1 Ancient Craving
1 Buried Alive
1 Damnation
1 Dimir Machinations
1 Dread Return
1 Night's Whisper
1 Sign in Blood
1 Thoughtseize
1 Vandalblast
1 Victimize
1 Vindicate
1 Wheel of Fortune
1 Elspeth, Sun's Champion
1 Liliana of the Veil
//Instants
1 Dark Ritual
1 Dismember
1 Enlightened Tutor
1 Entomb
1 Go for the Throat
1 Hatred
1 Path to Exile
1 Pyroblast
1 Red Elemental Blast
1 Sudden Spoiling
1 Swords to Plowshares
1 Terminate
1 Wear // Tear
//Artifacts
1 Chromatic Lantern
1 Darksteel Ingot
1 Mind Stone
1 Orzhov Signet
1 Rakdos Signet
1 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Sol Ring
1 Talisman of Indulgence
1 Basilisk Collar
1 Lightning Greaves
1 Skullclamp
1 Swiftfoot Boots
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
//Lands
1 Shizo, Death's Storehouse
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1 Volrath's Stronghold
1 Arcane Lighthouse
1 Battlefield Forge
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Clifftop Retreat
1 Command Tower
1 Dragonskull Summit
1 Fetid Heath
1 Graven Cairns
1 Homeward Path
1 Isolated Chapel
1 Marsh Flats
1 Rugged Prairie
1 Vault of the Archangel
1 Wasteland
1 Sacred Foundry
1 Godless Shrine
1 Blood Crypt
5 Mountain
5 Plains
5 Swamp
The manabase is really bad, I'd like to play 9 Fetches, 3 Duals, 3 Shocks, 3 Pains, 3 Filters.
If your meta is skewed towards certain colors like mine is, Swords are a fine way of protecting her. I need to add in the cards mentioned in this thread to protect the creatures she reanimates. Kiki-Jiki and Blood Artist will go in when I get them, probably replacing Mike+Trike unless I can find room for something else to go. I only own one set of black tutors which is why I don't have any in this deck (other then the graveyard ones) but I'd remove the slower draw cards for them if I had more copies. The most glaring omission by far is Reveillark - he 100% belongs in this deck, I just don't have one.
Relaxed EDH: BROlivia VampiresRB
#FreeBraids
Thanks. I'm glad you like the deck and if you ever want me to take a look at your list you're welcome to post it in this thread or somewhere else on the site and I'll be happy to discus.
Containment Priest : I agree and I have switched it out for Aven Mindcensor which doesn't hinder you.
Hushwing Gryff : Generally I only play this when I have a sac outlet handy or at moments when it really has a great effect. I see it more as a counterspell, and being such a removal magnet it generally doesn't last a turn cycle either before someone gets rid of it somehow.
Goblin Matron : There is actually Goblin Rabblemaster as well so that makes three targets. Each of the individual targets is so powerful though that I think it is still worth the limited tutor and any tutor on a stick is insane with Alesha or cards like Phyrexian Reclamation .
Cataclycm : This deck isn't the type of deck that can really capitalize on it when it is ahead (unlike Kaalia), yet I have still found it to be a useful reset button. It gets rid of a lot of annoying stuff and when you're behind it can even the playing field a lot.
Master of Cruelties : Although it works well as a surprise kill with Entomb , outside of that it is very lackluster. I didn't really like it that much in my Kaalia deck either and there it required less setup than here. I try to avoid cards that are only good with Alesha as well.
Athreos, God of the Passage : On this you are completely right and I have now removed it for Iroas, God of Victory . In Kaalia it was very strong, now with Alesha it is lackluster as you say.
Thanks for your great points.
Personally I don't really like Reconnaissance that much. It's a good card, but it is mostly good with Alesha and doesn't really do much outside of it. In my list, where Alesha is often a bit of a backup plan and combos are the main plan I think it doesn't do enough. If you're list relies much more on Alesha than it becomes a great card to use.
Exactly right on both accounts. The hatebears hurt my opponent more and are easy to remove in this deck with all the sac outlets. The cards Goblin Matron finds are so good that it becomes worth it just to find those three targets.
You're right that my deck is light on protection, but using Alesha isn't always my main plan with this deck. I did just add Iroas, God of Victory which should help out in this department. Elspeth, Knight Errant also works quite well with Alesha.
I just added Iroas, God of Victory to test it, its a great idea. Dauthi Embrace is too mana intensive and I think Dolmen Gate and Reconnaissance are unnecessary. If your list relies more on Alesha than mine, each of these suggestions would be great though.
-Angelforge: Some comments/suggestions on your list.
I like the look of your list, especially the heavy reanimation aspect. Let me know how this works out. Does your list have no artifacts or did they get lost in posting the list?
It seems that you don't have that many creatures. Have you had problems with making use of Alesha's ability? Is there any reason you chose to play more spells over creatures?
With respect to your manabase, you can also make it a virtue by cutting some of the more difficult things to cast ( Necropotence , Vampire Hexmage , Sudden Spoiling , etc. and then playing Blood Moon and Magus of the Moon .
In general I think you can cut some spells for similar effects on creatures. Alesha's ability in general makes creatures much more valuable. You also have few sacrifice outlets. Adding a couple like Viscera Seer , Cartel Aristocrat and Goblin Bombardment can allow you to reuse your ETB effects.
How have you found Elspeth, Sun's Champion and Liliana of the Veil to be? I should try to find some room for them in my list as well as they should work very well in my list too.
BRWC Mardu Shops - Tymna and Akiri Artifacts BRWC
Treasonous Ogre is also an insane card in this style of deck, it allows us to deploy extra threats early in the game while also having the ability to become larger than a 2/3, not to mention you can also recur him with Alesha. It would be nice if we could use the mana he generated on Alesha's ability but I am fine with paying three life and essentially adding a colorless mana to start throw down two or three dudes on turn 5. I would definitely try and test with him if you haven't.
I also think that Reconnaissance is fine. It allows you to attack freely on a cluttered board using Alesha's ability. While not only protecting her but the creature she brings back who can potentially win you the game if it is the missing combo piece you need.
I definitely don't run enough creatures. I played a few games with her last night and never had a strong graveyard. I'm going to add more of them before I play tonight, I'll post back in with the changes after I play. I know I have a Seer and Aristocrat around, I'm also going to add Disciple of Bolas (cutting Ambition's Cost).
On the manabase - I'm going to try to get the lands asap. I just wanted to comment on it being a known issue. I think Magus of the Moon deserves a spot here without Blood Moon once I get the fetches (at least in my meta), as you can tutor basics out in preparation for it and knock players out of the game with one card.
I like Siege-Gang Commander if you're running Goblin Matron. It also fuels Dread Return flashback post-combat which is great.
Reconnaissance seems like a pure meta choice. It would have been completely dead in 2 out of the 3 games I played last night. In another of my playgroups, it'll be live every game. Basically: in U[x] combo meta it's not great, G[x] aggro it's a lot better.
I haven't drawn either of the planeswalkers yet, so I can't comment on how good they are in Alesha. In Marath where I can control power and toughness, Elspeth is a onesided recurring boardwipe that's easy to protect. Most of Alesha survives her as well. She also protects herself quite well in my meta - no one runs pro-white Swords. In Prossh midrange, Liliana trades for cards really well (2 of your cards for 3 of the tables on the first activation) and protects herself well early. She's filling the same role here, with the additional upside of being able to use the cards you pitch through Alesha. If you play in a meta with more earlygame creature aggression she might not be so great.
Do Barbed Shocker Shocker belong here as additional disruption?
Relaxed EDH: BROlivia VampiresRB
#FreeBraids
Sengir Autocrat
Pawn of Ulamog
Marsh Flitter
Nether Traitor
I'm still currently in the process of making a Alesha EDH deck but I wanted to heavily focus on going wide.
Hellrider and Brutal Hordechief are the cards that got me thinking of making a mardu EDH deck in the first place, and I wanted to abuse that. I'm currently using capitacom's list as my reference, but I wanted to go a slightly different route.
What would you say are the staple cards that an Alesha EDH deck must have?
"I've been all over this world. I even remember some of those places"
"The more victims he kills, the more likely he is to get the right one"
"Music means nothing until brought to life by an imaginative, sympathetic player. It is the function of the interpreter to refract the message of the composer through the prism of his own mind. Otherwise a robot could do the same"
I will reconsider Siege-Gang Commander . It is indeed quite good both on an empty board as well as an Alesha target. I'm not really sure what to cut for it. Perhaps Unburial Rites which is less necessary now with Alesha's ability and is generally very mana intensive and mostly useful as an Entomb target (for which we have enough great targets already). Similarly I will look again at Treasonous Ogre , although I think the lifeloss is very high in a deck which already uses its life total in other ways and in addition can't really make good use of red mana, mostly of colorless mana. Reconnaissance is very much a card that depends on your specific list. I added in Iroas in mine, which has the same effects but is indestructible and useful outside of protecting Alesha by allowing your creatures to be semi-unblockable as well.
Yeah, Magus of the Moon can definitely steal games. I'm really looking forward to hearing more of how your choices play out. Dread Return also seems like a useful option over Unburial Rites in my list with the greater number of token producers in the list. The more I think of it, with the discard being able to fuel Alesha and the creature removal being great too, Liliana of the Veil should really find a spot in here. I'm not sure what to cut for it yet, but I'm quite sure it will get a spot. The Retribution of the Meek + token production + potential emblem combination in one card with Elspeth seems great as well, but maybe six mana is too.
I don't really like giving my opponents new cards so I would not include Barbed Shocker . Unless your opponents are really sculpting their hands it does not seem worth it.
I think Sengir Autocrat and Marsh Flitter are rather underpowered at 4 mana. Pawn of Ulamog can be good, but it is in my experience always a bit win-more. If you're already in the position that you can freely sacrifice other creatures, you pretty well off anyway. If you have no board it doesn't do anything. Nether Traitor is very good if you have more of an aggro or equipment focus as the shadow is really great for that. Hellrider is also great if you want to go the aggro route. Aurelia, the Warleader can also be a good addition then.
In my opinion the key cards for Alesha as a deck (thus excluding staples like Demonic Tutor ) would be:
Archangel of Thune - Best anthem effect we have, especially with our other lifegain effects.
Goblin Bombardment - Best sacrifice outlet we have.
Phyrexian Tower
High Market - Land sacrifice outlets are so important.
Purphoros, God of the Forge - Dealing 2 damage to each opponent makes both aggro and combo easier.
Karmic Guide - Goes infinite with Reveillark and returns any creature.
Reveillark
Goblin Rabblemaster - the best power 2 cheap token producer we have
Ophiomancer - the best power 2 cheap token producer we have
Fiend Hunter - great removal with Alesha
Leonin Relic-Warder - great removal with Alesha
Imperial Recruiter
Stoneforge Mystic
Goblin Matron
& depending on your list Heliod's Pilgrim
- continous tutoring is the most powerful thing you can do with Alesha.
Skullclamp - drawing cards and sacrificing creatures is what you want to be doing in any case.
On another note, I just updated my list:
14-2-2015
+ Viscera Seer
+ Malicious Affliction
+ Aven Mindcensor
+ Iroas, God of Victory
+ Knight of the White Orchid
+ Sensei’s Divining Top
- Terminate
- Containment Priest
- Cartel Aristocrat
- Athreos, God of the Passage
- Blackcleave Cliffs
- Caves of Koilos
Viscera Seer is now just better than Cartel Aristocrat after I took out Angel of Glory's Rise . I'm trying out Malicious Affliction to see how often I can get the 2 for 1 and how often the non-black clause comes up. Aven Mindcensor doesn't hinder our own deck and is a great hate card as well. Athreos, God of the Passage isn't as effective as before, and protecting Alesha and helping to deal damage should make Iroas, God of Victory quite good here. The last two changes are just Knight of the White Orchid for a land, as it can be recurred with Alesha easily and is a great 2 for 1 and Sensei's Divining Top for a land as well. As the deck has gotten grindier, Top is also better now than before. The deck still has enough lands with 36 + Crypt / Sol Ring and Tithe , Knight of the White Orchid and other draw cards.
BRWC Mardu Shops - Tymna and Akiri Artifacts BRWC
Leonin Relic-Warder is fantastic, I'll need to find one for my deck. Kataki, War's Wage is another option for artifact hate. I'm not sold on Ophiomancer or Rabblemaster. I haven't played with either of them, but they seem a bit slow. Are there cheaper CMC token-makers like Geist-Honored Monk (ie ones that put tokens into play immediately) that we can play instead? I don't think winning via power <= 2 swarm is a good primary gameplan.
Should we be running Lion's Eye DiamondAuriok Salvagers Pyrite Spellbomb? The downside of LED is mitigated by Alesha's ability, and she can reanimate the Salvagers. We'd probably want to play Silence and Infernal Tutor with that.
Relaxed EDH: BROlivia VampiresRB
#FreeBraids
"I've been all over this world. I even remember some of those places"
"The more victims he kills, the more likely he is to get the right one"
"Music means nothing until brought to life by an imaginative, sympathetic player. It is the function of the interpreter to refract the message of the composer through the prism of his own mind. Otherwise a robot could do the same"
Fiend Hunter also sets up an infinite loop with Angel of Glory's Rise and a sac outlet.
Relaxed EDH: BROlivia VampiresRB
#FreeBraids
Both Ophiomancer and Goblin Rabblemaster are pretty insane and quick token producers as well. I'd put them far above the more expensive cmc token producers. Ophiomancer, Purphoros and a sac outlet is already enough to kill your opponents in a couple of turn cycles. And Rabblemaster starts producing goblins right away. I would try them out a bit more and I think you'll be surprise by them. Bladesplicer is pretty good as an instant token maker though.
The Salvagers combo is really a great idea, although it doesn't fit in the creature combo version of Alesha as its pieces aren't useful in a vacuum. I think you could build a great artifact Alesha deck in which this combo could be really great. I'll try to theory craft a list this week if I have time.
Angelforce answered your question perfectly. I just wanted to add though that Fiend Hunter also goes infinite with Sun Titan.
BRWC Mardu Shops - Tymna and Akiri Artifacts BRWC
BRWC Mardu Shops - Tymna and Akiri Artifacts BRWC
-1 Night's Whisper
-1 Sign in Blood
-1 Triskellion
-1 Mikaeus, the Unhallowed
-1 Plains
-1 Swamp
+1 Sword of Feast and Famine
+1 Steelshaper's Gift
+1 Zealous Conscripts
+1 Kiki-Jiki, Mirror-Breaker
+1 Ambition's Cost
+1 High Market
+1 Phyrexian Tower
Straightforward changes for the most part. I'm running Swords as my primary protection for Alesha and FaF has a great effect. The discard is particularly nasty in my meta. I never got to play with Knight-Captain of Eos, but he seemed like a weaker version of Geist-Honored Monk in that she is both defensive (Vigilance) and aggressive (*/* body), wheras the Knight-Captain is purely defense. The Knight-Captain stops opponent's Sword and Jitte triggers which is pretty good so he might work his way back into the list at some point. I needed more sac outlets, so out come basics and in go nonbasics.
Should we play Memory Jar? It says draw 7, and you can use it on someone else's turn as disruption. We can keep using the cards after we discard them with Alesha, and it doesn't create negative CA like Wheel does. Seems worth including but 5 mana is a lot, especially without a way to recur it.
Relaxed EDH: BROlivia VampiresRB
#FreeBraids
I'm also looking at adding a Heliod's Pilgrim package although it may be too weak. Animate Dead , Splinter Twin / Gift of Immortality, and Chained to the Rocks could already be a pretty solid package, although space in the list is already very tight. Recurrable tutors are very good with Alesha though, even if the pilgrim is a bit less powerful than Recruiter, Mystic and Matron. What do you think?
BRWC Mardu Shops - Tymna and Akiri Artifacts BRWC
Taking a look at your list from above again I still feel like you are really creature light. I think you could easily just cut out the signets, lanter, ingot, mindstone, and talisman for dudes.
What about adding cards like Teysa, Orzhov Scion, Grenzo, Dungeon Warden, Butcher of the Horde, or even Brutal Hordechief/Hellrider?
I think Geist-Honored Monk is a fine addition to the deck. I am, however, not really sold on Memory Jar, like capitacom said if you choose to stick with all the artifact ramp I think it is fine, but 5 mana is a lot, I think I would want to do something else with that mana.
Heliod's Pilgrim is cute, being able to tutor up animate dead is really powerful and I have always been a fan of Splinter Twin even if we can't really combo with it and just use it for value. It seems pretty good if we have Purphoros, God of the Forge and splinter twin on say a siege gang commander.
I will probably consider a small aura package in the future.