Chromatic Lantern has been getting a lot of attention ITT, but I think Coalition Relic is just flat out better. Its ability to bank a charge counter and produce 2 any color mana makes it about as good as a filter, and better as a ramp effect. I also think Primal Growth could be good in this deck, since a 1/1 Marath token is a small price to pay for the second land (note that it does not say tapped). Bow of Nylea also seems really promising, since it lets you swing and then blow away your opponents' boards with Marath's burn ability in addition to the 4 tap abilities.
Is Hammer of Purphoros's token generating ability of any use? I was considering whether Fires of Yavimaya be marginally better than Hammer of Purphoros, as the hammer lends itself towards making Purphoros a creature, which leaves him open to much more removal. The hammer is also an artifact, which means more ways of removing it.
I can try a swap between Spear of Heliod and Bow of Nylea to see Whig I like better (the spear currently holds the spot the bow would use). I think, though, that spear might win. The anthem it passively gives is minor but still a good way to make my tokens that much scarier. The active is a good deterant for people to not hit me, even if it doesn't get used. On the other hand, the deathtouch passive from the bow is nice, but only during combat makes it a bit more narrow. I'm also more likely to dump mana into my other Swiss Army knife (Marath) before my next turn. I do love bow, though. It's fantastic in my Varolz deck.
On to Hammer of Purphoros. I will say yes and no to whether it's better or not. In terms of removal, they're both equally likely to be removed.Spot removal spells common to my playgroup hit the following: target creature, target permanent, target non-land permanent, and target artifact or enchantment (these can always hit both). Beyond that, there are two Ancient Grudges, and two Return to Dusts, followed by a couple Sylvan Primordials, Acidic Slimes, ect. So... Neither is anymore safe than the other. I can give Fires a shot, though. I really just like the utility of the hammer. I'm not going to use it primarily as a token generator, sacrificing a land is a pretty steep cost, but it can be a life saver when I desperately need a blocker with nothing else really in play. The Fire's sacrifice ability is considerably more narrow.
How has Gahiji, Honored One been? I've been looking to add him in my list to keep some pressure off of me, put some pressure on other opponents, and be a beast!
Have you tried Birthing Pod? It's one of my favorite cards in my list. You don't have such a tool box as I do but the card is insane.
Your list looks like a blast. I would love to play against it some time with mine just to see what on your list would be better.
How has Gahiji, Honored One been? I've been looking to add him in my list to keep some pressure off of me, put some pressure on other opponents, and be a beast!
Have you tried Birthing Pod? It's one of my favorite cards in my list. You don't have such a tool box as I do but the card is insane.
Your list looks like a blast. I would love to play against it some time with mine just to see what on your list would be better.
I would say that Gahiji is one of the strongest creatures on this list. Having the 1/1 tokens you spat out with Marath turn into 3/1's is a lot more impactful that it may seem at a glance, and as far as political shenanigans go, it's been super effective. Most of the people in my playgroup can't resist that extra +2/+0.
I love Birthing Pod, and I swear by it in my Kresh the Bloodbraided deck, but you're right. There's not enough toolbox creatures in the deck to support it.
Hehe, Marath vs. Marath is always a blast, because no two lists are ever the same with him.
Now for the boring stuff. As far as generic deck updates go, I'm making room for some new cards, for Return to Dust and for any Born of the Gods cards that seem promising. I will update with the changes as soon as everything has been spoiled.
As for the new stuff: I adore Xenagos and Karametra! As of the moment, I am considering Karametra for the deck in place of Primal Vigor. The number of desk than can abuse it have gone up recently, so I find myself holding it the majority of the time.
Sadly, I don't think Xenagos would do enough in this kind of deck, I don't often have big enough creatures to abuse him unless I'm going to win anyways. But he is fantastic!
Return to Dust is another likely addition. So far I'm the only one who has really been using the gods, so I'll hold off on adding it for now. But I am considering spots for it, just in case.
If you are mainly worried about the new gods (and specifically as generals), maybe try Deglamer and the newly spoiled Unravel the Æther. They are cheap, instant, and a strong tuck effect.
True. Those are other options. For the moment I'm going to wait and see how many people will be running them, and how big of a problem they become in my meta before I decide how many spots to dedicate to their removal. At the moment, I'm the only one who's really taken advantage of them in my decks.
Oblation is another good option, with more uses as well.
I've been trying to cut down on cards I won't grab very often in place of more utility. Fresh Meat offers me some protection against board wipes, and if nothing else, I can get another opponent to use one and leaving me with one less wrath effect to deal with. The pridemage and sliver can be tutored up by Survival of the Fittest, and I've mostly been using Enlightened Tutor for things like Aura Shards, letting me answer the board a bit easier. This also lowers my curve quite a bit overall, leaving me with cheaper utility spells.
Ooh, Dragonlair Spider got cut! I've always felt that it was slightly lackluster, but seemed to be included often enough in Marath decks.
Primal Vigor is a rather painful cut though. I'll probably be keeping it in my Marath list, as I'm running +1/+1 counters as a subtheme, and Primal Vigor helps both. Do keep us updated on the change to Karametra!
Ooh, Dragonlair Spider got cut! I've always felt that it was slightly lackluster, but seemed to be included often enough in Marath decks.
Primal Vigor is a rather painful cut though. I'll probably be keeping it in my Marath list, as I'm running +1/+1 counters as a subtheme, and Primal Vigor helps both. Do keep us updated on the change to Karametra!
As much as I love the spider for its ability to turn on Beastmaster Ascension, I wanted more answers.
The reason behind a lot of these changes is the change of my playgroup's decks. Prossh is a common sight now, as well as a couple of other token decks, and just decks that can use Primal Vigor. Most of the time it's just been sitting in my hand, as I don't want to pump a Jenara, Asura of War or something any further. On the upside, I can tutor for Doubling Season now!
I've played around with Karametra a little bit, trying to see if she's going to be worth fighting the Standard players for. I've loved her so far. She provides some nice color fixing. The biggest issue I'm trying to figure out before the BNG release is what to cut for her! Right now it's looking like either Ranger's Path or Elspeth, Sun's Chanpion.
Because of Marath’s broad range of abilities, I’ve been experimenting with different build styles for him. This particular experiment is a mid-range to upper range aggro build.
At the moment, I’m unsure of whether or not this will get added to my main post, as it is very similar to most other aggro builds for Marath that I’ve seen, but it’s been requested that I at least post it for other people to see. ^.^ It has a few cards that mark it as my own style, but when a larger creature aggro version failed, I had to resort to value. In terms of how this particular version of the deck wins, it plays out very similar to my current token list, by trying to just over whelm my opponents with a few key pump or anthem effects.
It's worked... All right, so far. I definitely don't intend to forsake my current list for this, as this really isn't my style of play. My biggest issue has been actually finishing people off, at this point Aggro is not loved in my meta. Sadly.[/spoiler]
As an added benefit, I’m going to try testing out Hellrider, Mirror Entity, and Reflecting Pool in my current token list, as they’ve worked so effectively in this deck. I also plan to pick up a copy of Mana Crypt in the next few months, to make it faster.
I’m going to start adding a review of the Born of the Gods cards that I think are applicable to my token list, hopefully that will be up by the end of the day.
Because of Marath’s broad range of abilities, I’ve been experimenting with different build styles for him. This particular experiment is a mid-range to upper range aggro build.
At the moment, I’m unsure of whether or not this will get added to my main post, as it is very similar to most other aggro builds for Marath that I’ve seen, but it’s been requested that I at least post it for other people to see. ^.^ It has a few cards that mark it as my own style, but when a larger creature aggro version failed, I had to resort to value. In terms of how this particular version of the deck wins, it plays out very similar to my current token list, by trying to just over whelm my opponents with a few key pump or anthem effects.
The biggest thing I would say from your list is drop some of the win more cards and lower your curve to continue the onslaught. Not to mention you need more card draw. Mentor of the Meek is insane. I rarely make tokens from Marath that are larger than 1/1s and a few times I've made 2/2s.
In Aggro Xenagos is so much better it's unreal. I don't like Karametra in 3+ color decks for fear of running out of targets. Plus she costs a ton of mana and doesn't do enough on her own.
It's worked... All right, so far. I definitely don't intend to forsake my current list for this, as this really isn't my style of play. My biggest issue has been actually finishing people off, at this point Aggro is not loved in my meta. Sadly.
You really have to focus on one person and not let up. Then when they are too weak to resist or are dead you work on a second. While the cards aren't as inherently strong as others, you need interact and disrupt as much as possible. And if all else fails combos are viable.
Some cards you mention...
Hellrider - You have to tell me how this works. It looked good and in my aggro list might just be bonkers.
Mirror Entity - Sooo good. And if you give +1/+1 counters around that's tacked on after Entity. So making a 1/1 then putting 3 counters on it is better than a 4/4 token. And it's a strict pump for Marath.
Reflecting Pool - I love this land. With a decent mana base it's a second Command Tower.
The biggest thing I would say from your list is drop some of the win more cards and lower your curve to continue the onslaught. Not to mention you need more card draw. Mentor of the Meek is insane. I rarely make tokens from Marath that are larger than 1/1s and a few times I've made 2/2s.
My problem is that they're not always win more. Our games usually have six or so players. With an aggro strategy, as soon as the primary target decks (an Azami, Lady of Scrolls combo deck and a super annoying Jenara, Asura of War deck) are killed by me, I become public enemy number one so to speak. That's one of the reasons why my token deck is built the way it is. I either need to build up a presence and go in for the long game, or try really hard to kill everyone at once.
As for Mentor the Meek, I may or may not add it. It depends on whether or not the new Spirit of the Labyrinth goes in. It does hurt me as well, but it flat out stops several strategies in my group, similarly to Linvala, Keeper of Silence.
In Aggro Xenagos is so much better it's unreal. I don't like Karametra in 3+ color decks for fear of running out of targets. Plus she costs a ton of mana and doesn't do enough on her own.
I agree, but I still intend to try the swap. After I take out one person, a wrath effect typically comes down, and I'd like a permanent resource to build up from. It's part of why I dislike mana dorks, people here will go so far as to swords them turn one, just to keep you from getting ahead.
You really have to focus on one person and not let up. Then when they are too weak to resist or are dead you work on a second. While the cards aren't as inherently strong as others, you need interact and disrupt as much as possible. And if all else fails combos are viable.
Some cards you mention...
Hellrider - You have to tell me how this works. It looked good and in my aggro list might just be bonkers.
Mirror Entity - Sooo good. And if you give +1/+1 counters around that's tacked on after Entity. So making a 1/1 then putting 3 counters on it is better than a 4/4 token. And it's a strict pump for Marath.
Reflecting Pool - I love this land. With a decent mana base it's a second Command Tower.
I defer back to the fact that I have to fight off five people, instead of three. >.< It makes that sooo much harder.
Hellrider has been really good to me. So far, my best chances with the aggro list have been when my boyfriend pulls out his Zo-Zu, the Punisher burn deck. It makes my aggro deck that much faster, and Hellrider is a really good draw even when I don't get to play against Zo-Zu. Life totals start to drop really quickly with him in play. I'm still not sure if he'll go in the token list though. I'm having trouble finding a spot for him that doesn't cancel out all of the work I just put in to lowering the curve.
I've got Mirror Entity in place of Luminarch Ascension at the moment, and it might become permanent. While Luminarch is really, really good I think it draws more hate than it's worth.
A little bit of an update (for the token list), as well:
With Karametra, cast a creature spell, search for a Forest or Plains, put it onto the battlefield.
With Knight, sac that Forest or Plains and search for any land card, put it into play.
If I ever switch back to running a land recursion package, I would definitely add Knight back in (I've run him in this deck before). Without the setup for it though, he's... Just okay. Nothing fantastic. I'd rather grab all three of my shock lands and duels with Karametra for the soul purpose of color fixing before grabbing my Gaea's Cradle. I also can't consistantly get them out together, and with out something like Crucible of Worlds (took it out with the Knight), he becomes a much weaker draw in my eyes, unless I get very fortunate to have started with a lot of basics as I would prefer to sacrifice those first to him.
My problem is that they're not always win more. Our games usually have six or so players. With an aggro strategy, as soon as the primary target decks (an Azami, Lady of Scrolls combo deck and a super annoying Jenara, Asura of War deck) are killed by me, I become public enemy number one so to speak. That's one of the reasons why my token deck is built the way it is. I either need to build up a presence and go in for the long game, or try really hard to kill everyone at once.
Eww 6+ player games? No wonder aggro doesn't do well in your meta. I play in strictly 3 and 4 player pods at most. Very rarely do we get a 5 player game. And at 3 player games my deck is just the best. And at 4 it's a fight to win. I usually have to combo out those games to finish off the last player or two.
As for Mentor the Meek, I may or may not add it. It depends on whether or not the new Spirit of the Labyrinth goes in. It does hurt me as well, but it flat out stops several strategies in my group, similarly to Linvala, Keeper of Silence.
I'm up in the air with this. I do plan on trying it out too though.
(On Xenagos vs Kerametra) I agree, but I still intend to try the swap. After I take out one person, a wrath effect typically comes down, and I'd like a permanent resource to build up from. It's part of why I dislike mana dorks, people here will go so far as to swords them turn one, just to keep you from getting ahead.
Please swords my Elvish Mystic. They see the threats of elves. Xenagos looks like he does some really silly things though mid/late game. And our early game is already incredible. My fear is just running out of targets late game for Kerametra.
Hellrider has been really good to me. So far, my best chances with the aggro list have been when my boyfriend pulls out his Zo-Zu, the Punisher burn deck. It makes my aggro deck that much faster, and Hellrider is a really good draw even when I don't get to play against Zo-Zu. Life totals start to drop really quickly with him in play. I'm still not sure if he'll go in the token list though. I'm having trouble finding a spot for him that doesn't cancel out all of the work I just put in to lowering the curve.
The problem with aggro decks. Lowering your curve is crucial. (As I just replaced a sol ring with a 4 drop. xD) Zo-Zu/Marath 2HG seems fantastic though.
I've got Mirror Entity in place of Luminarch Ascension at the moment, and it might become permanent. While Luminarch is really, really good I think it draws more hate than it's worth.
Entity is bonkers. And supports one of my favorite combos from the day it was legal in Standard.
Fated Retribution - So far, the Fated cyle has been widely dissapointing. An instant speed board wipe is nice, especially one that hits planeswalkers but I just don't see the mana cost being worth it. I would probably run it at six mana, but with Marath as a general, the ability to clear planeswalkers isn't an issue.
Spirit of the Labyrinth - A hatebear that makes everyone sad, including it's controller. While it does stop a lot of strategies in my playgroup, I likely won't run it beyond 'sideboarding' it in when I play certain 1v1 matchups. I do intend to try it, but I doubt it will make the cut.
Archetype of Courage - I can see this card being very good in some aggro strategies, but first strike won't be enough to save the vast majority of my tokens.
God-Favored General - I am very torn on the Inspired mechanic. It has some cool applications, but without running something like Earthcraft to safely tap down my own creatures, it gets much worse. As a 1/1, he won't be relevant outside of the first two or three turns and his Inspired cost is fairly steep for what you get. Overall, I feel he's just too underwhelming.
Plea for Guidance - I run a fair amount of enchantments in this deck, so this has potential to grab a lot of utility. It's worth trying, but I'm unsure of where it would fit.
Archetype of Aggression - I was very surpriesd by red getting trample for their Archetype. Unfortunately, 1/1 creatures can't use trample very well, and that's the majority of what this deck produces.
Felhide Spiritbinder - This card is like an Inspired version of Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker (so strictly worse). I intend to test this, however with no way other than attacking to trigger Inspired, I doubt he will make the cut.
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Courser of Kruphix - Strictly worse than Oracle of Mul Daya. While it's a good addition to a deck should you need the ability to filter through lands, I don't see any reason to cut a card to include it when I already use Oracle.
Nessian Demolok - I believe this is one of the best creatures with Tribute. Unfortunately, I can see Tribute being more than lackluster in EDH. While I am running Doubling Season to make it better, I would include Acidic Slime long before this.
Hunter's Prowess - Card draw! It's a sorcery which weakens it a great deal, and I don't think it fits in the deck, but I do like this card.
Unravel the AEther - A much prettier version of Deglamer. Should my playgroup start running a large number of gods as generals, I intend to include this.
RGWMulticoloredWGR
Xenagos, God of Revels - I adore the art on this card. Sadly, it's not much good in a token deck.
Karametra, God of Harvests - While I am disappointed that Ephara, God of the Polis isn't in Nayan colors, Karametra doesn't disappoint. Her ability is a cast trigger, so it's not broken beyond belief but I believe that I cast enough creature spells to make her ability worth it. Ramp is always good.
Eww 6+ player games? No wonder aggro doesn't do well in your meta. I play in strictly 3 and 4 player pods at most. Very rarely do we get a 5 player game. And at 3 player games my deck is just the best. And at 4 it's a fight to win. I usually have to combo out those games to finish off the last player or two.
I bet my card choices in both decks make more sense now, huh? I'll use my token deck as an example. I don't need to be the fastest deck in the group when there's six people. I just need to avoid being the primary target of my five opponents and start setting up anthem effects so at I can drop a haste enabler and a ton of tokens to kill someone before they get board wiped.
Please swords my Elvish Mystic. They see the threats of elves. Xenagos looks like he does some really silly things though mid/late game. And our early game is already incredible. My fear is just running out of targets late game for Kerametra.
The problem with them using swords o path on a mana dork, is that it typically slows me down enough that by the time I can set up my board to start killing people, someone can just wrath it all away. And with five other decks, wrath effects are super commonplace. I'm also not worried about my early game. I'm worried about being a relevant threat after early game is over, once everyone starts playing bigger threats.
The problem with aggro decks. Lowering your curve is crucial. (As I just replaced a sol ring with a 4 drop. xD) Zo-Zu/Marath 2HG seems fantastic though.
Having the lowest curve isn't always the most crucial thing in a large game. The faster you get going (not counting a god hand), the faster you draw everyone's attention.
As for the two-headed giant, his deck hurts everyone, incline himself and his partner.
Entity is bonkers. And supports one of my favorite combos from the day it was legal in Standard.
I like it, I'm just debating as to how much. What I really want is to find another token generator, not another pump. >.< I'm also on the fence about Luminarch. Having tokens tied to an enchantment makes recovering from board wipes much easier.
As my playgroup doesn't mind proxying unreleased cards, so long as we obtain them as soon as possible after a release, I've been messing around with some of the new cards from Born of the Gods mentioned in my earlier post as well as Hellrider and Mirror Entity.
These are the cards that are not being added into the deck at the moment and why.
Hellrider - It doesn't do enough in this deck as far as multiplayer is concerned. Either it comes down earlier in the game, and it's damage doesn't make that much of a difference or it comes down when I could win without it and ends up being win more.
Spirit of the Labyrinth - I do like this card for the hate it brings to a few decks in my meta, but it's not worth it most of the time.
Plea for Guidance - The mana cost is a little steep for what I want it to do. In this case, I think Enlightened Tutor is just a better option overall. Typically I want to grab something like Aura Shards or Basilisk Collar early for control.
Mirror Entity - I do like this card, I'm just unsure of where to put it. Still pending a final decision.
I love both her ramp and ability to color fix by grabbing both shock lands and ABUR duels. I managed to pick up a copy of her at the prerelease, so it's a done deal.
After about three months of searching, I finally got a hold of a Mana Reflection for this deck. Primeval Bounty is the weakest card of a similar CMC, so it got te axe. Explosive Vegetation was traded for Nature's Lore as I'm really trying to speed up my early game in this deck, as that's its weakest point.
I hate reversing a change so quickly, but Karametra happened to be one of the few changeable spots I have open and this change needed to be made. Linvala is replacing her as part of my attempt to stall games out. As much as I adore Karametra, in my playgroup there are around 20 decks with generals that are shut down by Linvala an some of those decks can outrace this one. The goal is to try to get as far ahead as possible before she is removed.
As for Voice, I've said before that I was looking for a replacement card. Luminarch needs to be drawn early, or it will just paint a giant target on your head without even going live. Voice discourages instants being used on my turn an has a unique synergy with Vexing Shusher if I can cast a spell that my opponents don't want to resolve badly enough.
No one in their right mind casts Hazezon Tamar without a sacrifice outlet. Likewise, no opponent in their right mind would waste spot removal on Hazezon unless his Sand Warriors had already entered the battlefield with him still on it (an unlikely occurrence). Ergo, you should give Hazezon another look and even consider editing your original post where you contrast Marath with other Naya generals.
What are your thoughts on including Sunforger alongside Wheel of Sun and Moon? The former lets you search for removal and other tutors and the latter's versatility allows you to choose to either recycle your cards (with or without Sunforger) or hate on a B player's graveyard.
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There are no divisions: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. -Galatians 3:28
No one in their right mind casts Hazezon Tamar without a sacrifice outlet. Likewise, no opponent in their right mind would waste spot removal on Hazezon unless his Sand Warriors had already entered the battlefield with him still on it (an unlikely occurrence). Ergo, you should give Hazezon another look and even consider editing your original post where you contrast Marath with other Naya generals.
What are your thoughts on including Sunforger alongside Wheel of Sun and Moon? The former lets you search for removal and other tutors and the latter's versatility allows you to choose to either recycle your cards (with or without Sunforger) or hate on a B player's graveyard.
I caught every reply I believe, even if it wasn't directly quoted. ^.^
Yes,I have applied for primer status, though I'm under review and very likely there will be some edits needed before it can go through.
I've considered Sunforger, there are some really strong builds here that utilize it, but before I use it I would want a much stronger suite of usable spells than I currently have before I would use it though. Wheel of. Sun and Moon is interesting though, and I'll at least test it. Most of the graveyard decks in my playgroup are actually my own, outside of the stray Sun Titan and the like. My Kresh and Varolz decks are really the only ones commuted to using the graveyard (Hythonia is up there), so I would be using it on myself 90% of the time. It interacts poorly with a couple cards but I'll try it out. ^.^
This isn't nessesarily an update, but I figured it would be interesting to share. ^.^
We've been holding casual multiplayer commander tournaments at my LGS recently. Nothing fancy, but I've been using this deck, as I can control the pace I play, depending on who I'm up against. Even while playing more relaxed that I normally would, I've done pretty well. If I had shuffled my deck a bit better (I played quite a few lands the game before, as they got clumped), I possibly could have won, but most of he games were fun regardless. We ha a couple people playing to win, but the deck held up pretty nicely.
If I can find a copy of Primal Growth, I'll give it a shot in place of Explosive Vegetation.
On to Hammer of Purphoros. I will say yes and no to whether it's better or not. In terms of removal, they're both equally likely to be removed.Spot removal spells common to my playgroup hit the following: target creature, target permanent, target non-land permanent, and target artifact or enchantment (these can always hit both). Beyond that, there are two Ancient Grudges, and two Return to Dusts, followed by a couple Sylvan Primordials, Acidic Slimes, ect. So... Neither is anymore safe than the other. I can give Fires a shot, though. I really just like the utility of the hammer. I'm not going to use it primarily as a token generator, sacrificing a land is a pretty steep cost, but it can be a life saver when I desperately need a blocker with nothing else really in play. The Fire's sacrifice ability is considerably more narrow.
My Helpdesk
[Pr] Marath | [Pr] Lovisa | Jodah | Saskia | Najeela | Yisan | Lord Windgrace | Atraxa | Meren | Gisa and Geralf
Have you tried Birthing Pod? It's one of my favorite cards in my list. You don't have such a tool box as I do but the card is insane.
Your list looks like a blast. I would love to play against it some time with mine just to see what on your list would be better.
Thank you so much mchief111 for the amazing art!
BUG is the Jund of EDH!
Modern: Jund, Grixis Delver, Bant Eldrazi, TitanShift
Commander: Brago, Yidris, Mizzix, Marath, Atheros, Daretti
I would say that Gahiji is one of the strongest creatures on this list. Having the 1/1 tokens you spat out with Marath turn into 3/1's is a lot more impactful that it may seem at a glance, and as far as political shenanigans go, it's been super effective. Most of the people in my playgroup can't resist that extra +2/+0.
I love Birthing Pod, and I swear by it in my Kresh the Bloodbraided deck, but you're right. There's not enough toolbox creatures in the deck to support it.
Hehe, Marath vs. Marath is always a blast, because no two lists are ever the same with him.
Now for the boring stuff. As far as generic deck updates go, I'm making room for some new cards, for Return to Dust and for any Born of the Gods cards that seem promising. I will update with the changes as soon as everything has been spoiled.
My Helpdesk
[Pr] Marath | [Pr] Lovisa | Jodah | Saskia | Najeela | Yisan | Lord Windgrace | Atraxa | Meren | Gisa and Geralf
I'm exchanging Boseiju, Who Shelters All for a Mountain. There's not enough spells that make great use of it. And Vexing Shusher has been enough to help deal with the control in my meta.
As for the new stuff: I adore Xenagos and Karametra! As of the moment, I am considering Karametra for the deck in place of Primal Vigor. The number of desk than can abuse it have gone up recently, so I find myself holding it the majority of the time.
Sadly, I don't think Xenagos would do enough in this kind of deck, I don't often have big enough creatures to abuse him unless I'm going to win anyways. But he is fantastic!
Return to Dust is another likely addition. So far I'm the only one who has really been using the gods, so I'll hold off on adding it for now. But I am considering spots for it, just in case.
My Helpdesk
[Pr] Marath | [Pr] Lovisa | Jodah | Saskia | Najeela | Yisan | Lord Windgrace | Atraxa | Meren | Gisa and Geralf
Oblation is another good option, with more uses as well.
My Helpdesk
[Pr] Marath | [Pr] Lovisa | Jodah | Saskia | Najeela | Yisan | Lord Windgrace | Atraxa | Meren | Gisa and Geralf
Out
Dragonlair Spider
Primal Vigor
Spear of Heliod
Rampaging Baloths
In
Qasali Pridemage
Harmonic Sliver
Enlightened Tutor
Fresh Meat
I've been trying to cut down on cards I won't grab very often in place of more utility. Fresh Meat offers me some protection against board wipes, and if nothing else, I can get another opponent to use one and leaving me with one less wrath effect to deal with. The pridemage and sliver can be tutored up by Survival of the Fittest, and I've mostly been using Enlightened Tutor for things like Aura Shards, letting me answer the board a bit easier. This also lowers my curve quite a bit overall, leaving me with cheaper utility spells.
My Helpdesk
[Pr] Marath | [Pr] Lovisa | Jodah | Saskia | Najeela | Yisan | Lord Windgrace | Atraxa | Meren | Gisa and Geralf
Primal Vigor is a rather painful cut though. I'll probably be keeping it in my Marath list, as I'm running +1/+1 counters as a subtheme, and Primal Vigor helps both. Do keep us updated on the change to Karametra!
As much as I love the spider for its ability to turn on Beastmaster Ascension, I wanted more answers.
The reason behind a lot of these changes is the change of my playgroup's decks. Prossh is a common sight now, as well as a couple of other token decks, and just decks that can use Primal Vigor. Most of the time it's just been sitting in my hand, as I don't want to pump a Jenara, Asura of War or something any further. On the upside, I can tutor for Doubling Season now!
I've played around with Karametra a little bit, trying to see if she's going to be worth fighting the Standard players for. I've loved her so far. She provides some nice color fixing. The biggest issue I'm trying to figure out before the BNG release is what to cut for her! Right now it's looking like either Ranger's Path or Elspeth, Sun's Chanpion.
My Helpdesk
[Pr] Marath | [Pr] Lovisa | Jodah | Saskia | Najeela | Yisan | Lord Windgrace | Atraxa | Meren | Gisa and Geralf
At the moment, I’m unsure of whether or not this will get added to my main post, as it is very similar to most other aggro builds for Marath that I’ve seen, but it’s been requested that I at least post it for other people to see. ^.^ It has a few cards that mark it as my own style, but when a larger creature aggro version failed, I had to resort to value. In terms of how this particular version of the deck wins, it plays out very similar to my current token list, by trying to just over whelm my opponents with a few key pump or anthem effects.
3 Marath, Will of the Wild
Creatuers (34)
1 Birds of Paradise
1 Elvish Mystic
1 Llanowar Elves
1 Mother of Runes
1 Weathered Wayfarer
2 Bloom Tender
2 Fauna Shaman
2 Gaddock Teeg
2 Grand Abolisher
2 Lotus Cobra
2 Nightshade Peddler
2 Qasali Pridemage
2 Scavenging Ooze
2 Stoneforge Mystic
2 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
2 Voice of Resurgence
3 Brimaz, King of Oreskos
3 Eternal Witness
3 Harmonic Sliver
3 Knight of the Reliquary
3 Mirror Entity
4 Anger
4 Bloodbraid Elf
4 Hellrider
4 Linvala, Keeper of Silence
4 Purphoros, God of the Forge
5 Gahiji, Honored One
5 Kalonian Hydra
5 Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker
5 Xenagos, God of Revels
5 Zealous Conscripts
6 Kamahl, Fist of Krosa
6 Sun Titan
8 Woodfall Primus
0 Arid Mesa
0 Cavern of Souls
0 Clifftop Retreat
0 Command Tower
0 Dryad Arbor
0 Gaea’s Cradle
0 Gavony Township
0 Inkmoth Nexus
0 Kessig Wolf Run
0 Plateau
0 Raging Ravine
0 Reflecting Pool
0 Rootbound Crag
0 Sacred Foundry
0 Savannah
0 Stomping Ground
0 Strip Mine
0 Sunpetal Grove
0 Taiga
0 Temple Garden
0 Treetop Village
0 Windswept Heath
0 Wooded Foothills
6x Forest
4x Mountain
5x Plains
Artifacts (7)
1 Basilisk Collar
1 Sensei’s Divining Top
1 Skullclamp
1 Sol Ring
3 Spear of Heliod
3 Sword of Feast and Famine
3 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Enlightened Tutor
1 Nature’s Claim
1 Path to Exile
1 Swords to Plowshares
1 Worldly Tutor
2 Deglamer
2 Eladamri’s Call
2 Wear / Tear
Enchantments (7)
1 Hardened Scales
2 Survival of the Fittest
2 Sylvan Library
3 Aura Shards
3 Beastmaster Ascension
5 Cathars’ Crusade
5 Doubling Season
Planeswalkers (3)
3 Domri Rade
4 Elspeth, Knight-Errant
4 Xenagos, the Reveler
Sorceries (3)
1 Green Sun’s Zenith
4 Natural Order
4 Triumph of the Hordes
It's worked... All right, so far. I definitely don't intend to forsake my current list for this, as this really isn't my style of play. My biggest issue has been actually finishing people off, at this point Aggro is not loved in my meta. Sadly.[/spoiler]
As an added benefit, I’m going to try testing out Hellrider, Mirror Entity, and Reflecting Pool in my current token list, as they’ve worked so effectively in this deck. I also plan to pick up a copy of Mana Crypt in the next few months, to make it faster.
I’m going to start adding a review of the Born of the Gods cards that I think are applicable to my token list, hopefully that will be up by the end of the day.
My Helpdesk
[Pr] Marath | [Pr] Lovisa | Jodah | Saskia | Najeela | Yisan | Lord Windgrace | Atraxa | Meren | Gisa and Geralf
In Aggro Xenagos is so much better it's unreal. I don't like Karametra in 3+ color decks for fear of running out of targets. Plus she costs a ton of mana and doesn't do enough on her own.
Awesome card. I've been thinking about adding this... I hate cutting cards.
You really have to focus on one person and not let up. Then when they are too weak to resist or are dead you work on a second. While the cards aren't as inherently strong as others, you need interact and disrupt as much as possible. And if all else fails combos are viable.
Some cards you mention...
Hellrider - You have to tell me how this works. It looked good and in my aggro list might just be bonkers.
Mirror Entity - Sooo good. And if you give +1/+1 counters around that's tacked on after Entity. So making a 1/1 then putting 3 counters on it is better than a 4/4 token. And it's a strict pump for Marath.
Reflecting Pool - I love this land. With a decent mana base it's a second Command Tower.
Thank you so much mchief111 for the amazing art!
BUG is the Jund of EDH!
Modern: Jund, Grixis Delver, Bant Eldrazi, TitanShift
Commander: Brago, Yidris, Mizzix, Marath, Atheros, Daretti
My problem is that they're not always win more. Our games usually have six or so players. With an aggro strategy, as soon as the primary target decks (an Azami, Lady of Scrolls combo deck and a super annoying Jenara, Asura of War deck) are killed by me, I become public enemy number one so to speak. That's one of the reasons why my token deck is built the way it is. I either need to build up a presence and go in for the long game, or try really hard to kill everyone at once.
As for Mentor the Meek, I may or may not add it. It depends on whether or not the new Spirit of the Labyrinth goes in. It does hurt me as well, but it flat out stops several strategies in my group, similarly to Linvala, Keeper of Silence.
I agree, but I still intend to try the swap. After I take out one person, a wrath effect typically comes down, and I'd like a permanent resource to build up from. It's part of why I dislike mana dorks, people here will go so far as to swords them turn one, just to keep you from getting ahead.
Mirari's Wake is fantastic in this. The problem has been figuring out what to take out for both it and Exploration.
I defer back to the fact that I have to fight off five people, instead of three. >.< It makes that sooo much harder.
Hellrider has been really good to me. So far, my best chances with the aggro list have been when my boyfriend pulls out his Zo-Zu, the Punisher burn deck. It makes my aggro deck that much faster, and Hellrider is a really good draw even when I don't get to play against Zo-Zu. Life totals start to drop really quickly with him in play. I'm still not sure if he'll go in the token list though. I'm having trouble finding a spot for him that doesn't cancel out all of the work I just put in to lowering the curve.
I've got Mirror Entity in place of Luminarch Ascension at the moment, and it might become permanent. While Luminarch is really, really good I think it draws more hate than it's worth.
A little bit of an update (for the token list), as well:
Out
Ranger's Path
Gilded Lotus
1x Mountain
In
Exploration
Mana Crypt
Reflecting Pool
I'm trying to speed up my early game, and help with color fixing, for the most part.
My Helpdesk
[Pr] Marath | [Pr] Lovisa | Jodah | Saskia | Najeela | Yisan | Lord Windgrace | Atraxa | Meren | Gisa and Geralf
With Karametra, cast a creature spell, search for a Forest or Plains, put it onto the battlefield.
With Knight, sac that Forest or Plains and search for any land card, put it into play.
If I ever switch back to running a land recursion package, I would definitely add Knight back in (I've run him in this deck before). Without the setup for it though, he's... Just okay. Nothing fantastic. I'd rather grab all three of my shock lands and duels with Karametra for the soul purpose of color fixing before grabbing my Gaea's Cradle. I also can't consistantly get them out together, and with out something like Crucible of Worlds (took it out with the Knight), he becomes a much weaker draw in my eyes, unless I get very fortunate to have started with a lot of basics as I would prefer to sacrifice those first to him.
My Helpdesk
[Pr] Marath | [Pr] Lovisa | Jodah | Saskia | Najeela | Yisan | Lord Windgrace | Atraxa | Meren | Gisa and Geralf
I'm up in the air with this. I do plan on trying it out too though.
Please swords my Elvish Mystic. They see the threats of elves. Xenagos looks like he does some really silly things though mid/late game. And our early game is already incredible. My fear is just running out of targets late game for Kerametra.
I can definitely see that.
The problem with aggro decks. Lowering your curve is crucial. (As I just replaced a sol ring with a 4 drop. xD) Zo-Zu/Marath 2HG seems fantastic though.
Entity is bonkers. And supports one of my favorite combos from the day it was legal in Standard.
I love durdly plays and this tops my list as to why to play Kerametra.
Thank you so much mchief111 for the amazing art!
BUG is the Jund of EDH!
Modern: Jund, Grixis Delver, Bant Eldrazi, TitanShift
Commander: Brago, Yidris, Mizzix, Marath, Atheros, Daretti
WWhiteW
RRedR
GGreenG
RGWMulticoloredWGR
Artifacts
Land
Conclusion
So currently I intend to test Spirit of the Labyrinth, Plea for Guidance, Felhide Spiritbinder, and Karametra, God of Harvests, with Unravel the AEther as a potitenial add in based on my meta. Karametra is the only one that will likely show up in the list, but this set has provided some interesting cards. I was disappointed by the token cards overall, however.
My Helpdesk
[Pr] Marath | [Pr] Lovisa | Jodah | Saskia | Najeela | Yisan | Lord Windgrace | Atraxa | Meren | Gisa and Geralf
I bet my card choices in both decks make more sense now, huh? I'll use my token deck as an example. I don't need to be the fastest deck in the group when there's six people. I just need to avoid being the primary target of my five opponents and start setting up anthem effects so at I can drop a haste enabler and a ton of tokens to kill someone before they get board wiped.
I'll play anything that let's me stall Azami and the like, to let me kill a more threatening deck first.
The problem with them using swords o path on a mana dork, is that it typically slows me down enough that by the time I can set up my board to start killing people, someone can just wrath it all away. And with five other decks, wrath effects are super commonplace. I'm also not worried about my early game. I'm worried about being a relevant threat after early game is over, once everyone starts playing bigger threats.
Having the lowest curve isn't always the most crucial thing in a large game. The faster you get going (not counting a god hand), the faster you draw everyone's attention.
As for the two-headed giant, his deck hurts everyone, incline himself and his partner.
I like it, I'm just debating as to how much. What I really want is to find another token generator, not another pump. >.< I'm also on the fence about Luminarch. Having tokens tied to an enchantment makes recovering from board wipes much easier.
My Helpdesk
[Pr] Marath | [Pr] Lovisa | Jodah | Saskia | Najeela | Yisan | Lord Windgrace | Atraxa | Meren | Gisa and Geralf
These are the cards that are not being added into the deck at the moment and why.
Now the actual change:
Out
Mycoloth
In
Karametra, God of Harvests
I love both her ramp and ability to color fix by grabbing both shock lands and ABUR duels. I managed to pick up a copy of her at the prerelease, so it's a done deal.
My Helpdesk
[Pr] Marath | [Pr] Lovisa | Jodah | Saskia | Najeela | Yisan | Lord Windgrace | Atraxa | Meren | Gisa and Geralf
Out
Explosive Vegetation
Primeval Bounty
In
Nature's Lore
Mana Reflection
After about three months of searching, I finally got a hold of a Mana Reflection for this deck. Primeval Bounty is the weakest card of a similar CMC, so it got te axe. Explosive Vegetation was traded for Nature's Lore as I'm really trying to speed up my early game in this deck, as that's its weakest point.
My Helpdesk
[Pr] Marath | [Pr] Lovisa | Jodah | Saskia | Najeela | Yisan | Lord Windgrace | Atraxa | Meren | Gisa and Geralf
Out
Luminarch Ascension
Karametra, God of Harvests
In
Voice of Resurgence
Linvala, Keeper of Silence
I hate reversing a change so quickly, but Karametra happened to be one of the few changeable spots I have open and this change needed to be made. Linvala is replacing her as part of my attempt to stall games out. As much as I adore Karametra, in my playgroup there are around 20 decks with generals that are shut down by Linvala an some of those decks can outrace this one. The goal is to try to get as far ahead as possible before she is removed.
As for Voice, I've said before that I was looking for a replacement card. Luminarch needs to be drawn early, or it will just paint a giant target on your head without even going live. Voice discourages instants being used on my turn an has a unique synergy with Vexing Shusher if I can cast a spell that my opponents don't want to resolve badly enough.
My Helpdesk
[Pr] Marath | [Pr] Lovisa | Jodah | Saskia | Najeela | Yisan | Lord Windgrace | Atraxa | Meren | Gisa and Geralf
I caught every reply I believe, even if it wasn't directly quoted. ^.^
Yes,I have applied for primer status, though I'm under review and very likely there will be some edits needed before it can go through.
I've considered Sunforger, there are some really strong builds here that utilize it, but before I use it I would want a much stronger suite of usable spells than I currently have before I would use it though. Wheel of. Sun and Moon is interesting though, and I'll at least test it. Most of the graveyard decks in my playgroup are actually my own, outside of the stray Sun Titan and the like. My Kresh and Varolz decks are really the only ones commuted to using the graveyard (Hythonia is up there), so I would be using it on myself 90% of the time. It interacts poorly with a couple cards but I'll try it out. ^.^
My Helpdesk
[Pr] Marath | [Pr] Lovisa | Jodah | Saskia | Najeela | Yisan | Lord Windgrace | Atraxa | Meren | Gisa and Geralf
We've been holding casual multiplayer commander tournaments at my LGS recently. Nothing fancy, but I've been using this deck, as I can control the pace I play, depending on who I'm up against. Even while playing more relaxed that I normally would, I've done pretty well. If I had shuffled my deck a bit better (I played quite a few lands the game before, as they got clumped), I possibly could have won, but most of he games were fun regardless. We ha a couple people playing to win, but the deck held up pretty nicely.
My Helpdesk
[Pr] Marath | [Pr] Lovisa | Jodah | Saskia | Najeela | Yisan | Lord Windgrace | Atraxa | Meren | Gisa and Geralf