Jace is not up my ally. I don't like instant-win combos and his other affects are not really that powerful for his, imo.
Niv there's 11 cards in the deck that he would hit, many of them being the same color pair. Also not a big fan of, plus he's not 7/7+ which means he's a four turn clock versus 3.
Teferi seems okay. I may play test him because I love 3 mana planeswalkers, but he doesn't really provided too much value if you're being honest. I think I'll keep an eye on him for now.
I'm anticipating the Ugin card to be good, we'll see.
Finally played my slightly-different list in a game today. Not as much to keep me in check with only two opponents who didn't know what to expect. It was versus Estrid and Kaseto snake tribal, so maybe they were just seeing how it worked. I'm sure they'll be more proactive next time they face it now that they know it'll snowball if they give it long enough.
The end started when I used Narset's -2 to get rebound on Emergency Powers, free-casting Liliana Vess with the original spell. Estrid had a Bruna that was a problem due to hexproof and totem armors. I had God-Pharaoh and Austere Command in hand now, so I knew which one I wanted to try to use. Tutored for Doubling Season (almost chose Merciless Eviction) and ended up drawing Tamiyo, Field Researcher, too, which made it all the easier. Next turn I waived the rebound on Powers, cast Doubling Season, then Tamiyo and -7 on her, then God-Pharaoh and -12. Cast a few other walkers including Ob Nixilis Reignited and Garruk Wildspeaker, more digging into the deck, then Teferi, Temporal Archmage and took his emblem right away. More digging on each opponent's turn as they try to rebuild, which they were doing pretty well. During that I drew Sorin, Grim Nemesis, cast it on my turn and -9. Sixty of those vampire knights plus some slivers, beasts, thopters were on the field and I passed turn with 13 life.
Estrid declines to attack since they had some flyers but no trample and I had enough flying thopters to chump-block. On Kaseto's turn they only had their commander and River Boa. They pumped Kaseto once and attacked my with both, mana open for 3 more pumps. God-Pharaoh's -4 to target 7 damage at Kaseto, and in response they use all 3 pumps on Kaseto to save him, so I -3 Ob Nixilis to destroy him and only take 2 damage from the other snake. Untapped and used Wildspeaker's -4 for +3/+3 and trample on the tokens and swung away.
It may come to be that I'll need slightly more removal and possibly an additional wipe if I'm going to continue avoiding Humility.
I tested the deck this weekend with a few new cards (Teferi 2.0, Labman Jace + tainted pact, and Nicol Bolas). The difference is night and day. The deck is just as good as ever, but way more explosive as you could win anytime you have 6 mana with Jace and Tainted in hand. I even found a sweet interaction between Manifold Insights and Tainted Pact: Jace was in the top ten cards of my deck, so I was given 3 other cards and jace was randomly placed in the bottom 7. Then I cast tainted pact, and jace was in the bottom 3 cards, so I got him and +1'd him for the win.
In terms of actually winning games, Jace and the new Bolas are amazing. I may actually try Demonic Consultation to see if its worth running (although it ks quite a bit worse because you have to name a card first. Call the Gatewatch might finally be worth it! Although I want to shy away from tutoring for combo pieces (a self imposed restriction so games don't end the same way every time).
I got exactly what I wanted from this set! I hope the new bolas and jace are in the mythic edition,so I can have shiny cool versions of my win conditions!
The new Ashiok, Dream Render is quite good in graveyard based meta or even one with a lot of fetchlands and tutors. So I think it ranges from just under playable to A+ autoinclude depending on the meta.
Either way, a design like this is nuts as an uncommon. 3 mana hybrid planeswalker! This set is insane.
Yeah this card is pretty depressing... Two mana seems like a pretty insane rate for the effect.
On the upside now I won't feel bad about locking people out with Teferi, Hero of Dominaria & Stasis, or winning with the new Jace
Perhaps it's time to consider running faith's reward in addition to Teferi's protection?
I think personally I would lean more towards something like Primevals' Glorious Rebirth as a way to follow up/counter that. I would rather not have to sit with Faith's Reward in hand regularly.
On topic of legendary sorceries, I just realized that Urza's Ruinous Blast could be huge for our deck. Opinions?
I'd looked at Urza's Ruinous Blast, too, but the liability is that it will leave legendary creatures around and some of those commanders in my group I'd prefer to take out (especially Mizzix). I might be adding another wipe since I don't have Humility, but it might be Akroma's Vengeance, Hallowed Burial, or Final Judgment.
I'd looked at Urza's Ruinous Blast, too, but the liability is that it will leave legendary creatures around and some of those commanders in my group I'd prefer to take out (especially Mizzix). I might be adding another wipe since I don't have Humility, but it might be Akroma's Vengeance, Hallowed Burial, or Final Judgment.
Depending on how long you plan on piloting this deck, I can't recommend Humility enough, especially considering it's on the reserve list and still relatively cheap.
Humility is one of the best cards in the deck (I recently got Moat and The Abyss and it still tutor for it over them a lot of the time!)
Trav, I really like Urza's Ruinous Blast in theory, but I don't like that we would have to have a legendary in play to even cast it (we would presumably be casting this when behind), and as Lyonhaert said we won't be able to clear away any of the commanders in play. Also, it seems like most of the best creatures nowadays are legendary anyways (e.g. the new Boar God, etc.), so we'll be missing a lot, which makess this card pretty terrible for us given the stringent casting conditions.
I think the real secret tech is running Jokulhaups . It's pretty mean, but it is the best removal in the format for us: super cheap, and we get to keep all the best stuff, our enchantments and planeswalkers! Obliterate works too if you want to make this a win condition (which is probably what you should be doing if you don't want the table to hate you).
I have been playing with Sliver Hivelord as my main commander for a while now (whenever I'm not allowed to use Urza, Academy Headmaster ) , and I think and argument could be made that Hivelord is one of the best commanders for this deck. It is an indestructible blocker, it survives all our board while (except for Toxic Deluge), it doesn't die to The Abyss, and it basically guarantees that you can play Primeval's Glorious Rebirth whenever you want.
I know that he takes 5 hits to kill with commander damage instead of 3 with Sliver Queen, but I am not really interested in winning with commander damage with this deck, especially now that I run the trifecta of recently added win conditions (Dragon-God Bolas, Jace+Tainted Pact, and Approach of the Second Sun)
My deck has diverged quite a bit from yours at this point, Trav, but it is absolutely my favourite deck and I really appreciate your Primer. You brought together great info on superfriends in the format (before it was cool!)
Humility is one of the best cards in the deck (I recently got Moat and The Abyss and it still tutor for it over them a lot of the time!)
Trav, I really like Urza's Ruinous Blast in theory, but I don't like that we would have to have a legendary in play to even cast it (we would presumably be casting this when behind), and as Lyonhaert said we won't be able to clear away any of the commanders in play. Also, it seems like most of the best creatures nowadays are legendary anyways (e.g. the new Boar God, etc.), so we'll be missing a lot, which makess this card pretty terrible for us given the stringent casting conditions.
I think the real secret tech is running Jokulhaups . It's pretty mean, but it is the best removal in the format for us: super cheap, and we get to keep all the best stuff, our enchantments and planeswalkers! Obliterate works too if you want to make this a win condition (which is probably what you should be doing if you don't want the table to hate you).
I have been playing with Sliver Hivelord as my main commander for a while now (whenever I'm not allowed to use Urza, Academy Headmaster ) , and I think and argument could be made that Hivelord is one of the best commanders for this deck. It is an indestructible blocker, it survives all our board while (except for Toxic Deluge), it doesn't die to The Abyss, and it basically guarantees that you can play Primeval's Glorious Rebirth whenever you want.
I know that he takes 5 hits to kill with commander damage instead of 3 with Sliver Queen, but I am not really interested in winning with commander damage with this deck, especially now that I run the trifecta of recently added win conditions (Dragon-God Bolas, Jace+Tainted Pact, and Approach of the Second Sun)
My deck has diverged quite a bit from yours at this point, Trav, but it is absolutely my favourite deck and I really appreciate your Primer. You brought together great info on superfriends in the format (before it was cool!)
I used to play Jokulhaups , but it's too unfun for me. Blowing up lands is such a set back and just makes the game dull. I understand though if you're playing very competitively.
The new reanimation spell Command the Dreadhorde looks sweet! I'm pretty sure you can stack the triggers so that a Deepglow Skate would come in after your planeswalker, so you can use the ultimate immediately. I do like the flexibility of getting to target other player's graveyards too, but between the 6 cmc and the life payment it may just not make the cut.
Fair point about Jokulhaups, I only brought it in after my friend kept destroying all my lands with Ruination, so I thought I would return the favor haha
The new reanimation spell Command the Dreadhorde looks sweet! I'm pretty sure you can stack the triggers so that a Deepglow Skate would come in after your planeswalker, so you can use the ultimate immediately. I do like the flexibility of getting to target other player's graveyards too, but between the 6 cmc and the life payment it may just not make the cut.
Fair point about Jokulhaups, I only brought it in after my friend kept destroying all my lands with Ruination, so I thought I would return the favor haha
It's no doubt a very impressive card if you want to play cutthroat. I think this deck could look a lot more ruthless if you're playing in that meta.
Yeah that card looks pretty sweet, I just am a little worried about the life loss, though I wish I didn't have to be lol
The new reanimation spell Command the Dreadhorde looks sweet! I'm pretty sure you can stack the triggers so that a Deepglow Skate would come in after your planeswalker, so you can use the ultimate immediately. I do like the flexibility of getting to target other player's graveyards too, but between the 6 cmc and the life payment it may just not make the cut.
Fair point about Jokulhaups, I only brought it in after my friend kept destroying all my lands with Ruination, so I thought I would return the favor haha
It's no doubt a very impressive card if you want to play cutthroat. I think this deck could look a lot more ruthless if you're playing in that meta.
Yeah that card looks pretty sweet, I just am a little worried about the life loss, though I wish I didn't have to be lol
You have a bunch of spare life though, cause no one is ever attacking you.
This set looks great for the deck, even if i only want to add 1 of the 37 new planeswalkers.
Elderspell
deliver unto evil
command the dreadhorde
blast zone
interplaner beacon
edit: forgot my favorite card, spark double
Those are all pretty nifty, and i will test them.
Also the new mythic edition.
My deck will be soooo pimped! if only i could afford black border duals
These are actually amazing. I'm going to try and pick up a box and split it with my brother. Since he runs Ugin in his deck, I'll let him have it, as he will likely let me use Jace and Nicol Bolas (my new favorite walker of the deck).
The Mythic edition is nuts. I hope I can get my hands on a box!
Will you be playing the Elder Spell to kill other people's planeswalkers? I did realize recently that I had some difficulty dealing with other player's planeswalkers outside of Assasins trophy.
I just realized you can guarantee two cards with Deliver Onto Evil, which is awesome! It may still not make the cut though.
The Mythic edition is nuts. I hope I can get my hands on a box!
Will you be playing the Elder Spell to kill other people's planeswalkers? I did realize recently that I had some difficulty dealing with other player's planeswalkers outside of Assasins trophy.
I just realized you can guarantee two cards with Deliver Onto Evil, which is awesome! It may still not make the cut though.
I personally don't like it in the deck because 1. it's too narrow of a card (i don't have that many planeswalkers in my meta) 2. I don't want someone to cast it from my graveyard and wreck my field lol
I run Vindicate, Anguished Unmaking and Assassin's Trophy. You can even up it to Utter End, if need be.
Karn, the Great Creator - Shuts down mana rocks and equipments, which is interesting to think of. Unfortunately, his plus is too artifact centric. On top of that, the effectiveness of his minus working in EDH depends on your playgroup, according to the rules (tutoring outside of the game).
Ugin, the Ineffable – I was really hoping for Ugin to be good, because I love his 8 version. That said, this one just doesn’t fit this deck. This is mainly because his static ability doesn’t work all that well with our deck. His plus is okay, as it provides a little chump blocker that becomes a draw, and his minus isn’t terrible. He’s also 6, which isn’t particularly cheap.
Gideon Blackblade – This deck is very punishing for creatures. So not only does Gideon being a creature during your turn not bode well in this deck, neither does his plus, as it only would work with him and Sliver Queen.
Teyo, the Shieldmage – The static ability really isn’t that strong, and neither are the walls. I love three mana walkers, but this card can’t justify a spot in the 99.
The Wanderer – This card could be relevant if you have a lot of burn in your meta, but that isn’t much of a thing in EDH. The minus is pretty strong, as well. But overall, this card isn’t strong enough to fit in the 99.
Kasmina, Enigmatic Mentor – The passive ability isn’t terrible, but isn’t amazing either. The same goes for the minus. Another uncommon that just can’t justify itself in the 99.
Narset, Parter of Veils – Ah, finally a good uncommon planeswalker. Converted mana cost is three, passive ability is very relevant in the format, and the minus is alright. I wish this card had a super simple plus, like “Scry 1.” as it would make the card much justified in the 99. Even as the best uncommon planesewalker (in my opinion) it still has a hard time justifying itself against other cards.
Davriel, Rogue Shadowmage – This deck doesn’t reliably force discarding, and even if it did, the passive isn’t that powerful. Minus isn’t really either. And 3 loyalty counters isn’t helping.
Liliana, Dreadhorde General – Liliana’s beefiest form, and justifiably. Her passive ability is strong, just not that strong in this deck unfortunately. That being said, it works well with her plus as well as the many other forms of generating tokens in this deck. Her minus is almost a board wipe, and handles indestructible and hexproof, which is a plus. Her ultimate probably is going to win you the game. Overall, I like her a lot and I’m considering finding her a spot in the deck. That being said, I’m trying to avoid stacking up high cmc in this deck.
Ob Nixilis, the Hate-Twisted – At this cost, he’s probably not worth it. That being said, I could imagine him being really powerful if he was slightly cheaper.
Chandra, Fire Artisan – This might be because of the format, but overall I think her static ability is weak and her other abilities do not make up for it. Comparing this Chandra to something like Chandra, Torch of Defiance makes this card seem pretty weak.
Jaya, Venerated Firemage – Burn just isn’t that powerful in EDH, and so this card is pretty underwhelming in the format for the cost and effectiveness.
Sarkhan the Masterless – The static ability is not very effective, that being said, his plus is a possible win condition, and could add some needed pressure to our opponents. That being said, it also turns paints a big Doom Blade target and your planeswalkers’s heads.
Arlinn, Voice of the Pack – 6 converted mana cost, only interacts with wolves. Just doesn’t seem well fitting for this deck, at all.
Jiang Yanggu, Wildcrafter – Since we don’t run any creatures, this card does not interact very well with our deck besides our planeswalkers that generate tokens.
Nissa, Who Shakes the World – We do run a fair amount of forests (10 to be exact) but I don’t think that’s enough to justify this card. Her plus isn’t terrible, but also does not combo well with a high amount of wrath effects superfriend decks typically run.
Vivien, Champion of the Wilds – Another creature centric planeswalker that really doesn’t mesh well with the current list.
Ajani, the Greathearted – This card wouldn’t be so bad in a planeswalker token EDH deck, but the current list it doesn’t work well in.
Domri, Anarch of Bolas – Again, another card that work well with token as it acts as a Crusade on top of having other effects.
Nicol Bolas, Dragon-God – Grand daddy planeswalker. I’ll wait until testing, but I can almost confirm this is the strongest planeswalker card for a superfriends deck, bar none. His static ability is going to be insane for this deck. This means he can come down with a Doubling Season and either activate his ultimate, OR activate an ultimate of another planeswalker on the battlefield with a cost of 8 loyalty. His plus is nothing to scoff at, his minus is just good removal and his ultimate can literally win the game on the spot. I can’t wait to run this card.
Ral, Storm Conduit – I think if this card was maybe cheaper it would be okay, but at four mana, it’s just not that strong. His static ability is really weak, his plus could probably be scry 2 and his minus is just okay.
Sorin, Vengeful Bloodlord – Overall pretty weak planeswalker. He might be better surrounded by a few creatures he can give lifelink/reanimate, but alas, creatureless deck.
Tamiyo, Colllector of Tales – This card isn’t bad, but it’s tough to evaluate otherwise. Her static ability is good, as it protects us from eldrazi and other sacrifice/discard effects, and her minus is a Regrowth, which I get a lot of mileage out of. That being said, her plus is pretty iffy, even with her minus working alongside it. Since commnader is a singleton format, you literally can’t draw more than one card, and you have to hope that you either guess correctly or have a Sensei's Divining Top.
Teferi, Time Raveler – I do love me some 3 converted mana cost planeswalkers, but I’m not sure if Teferi is powerful enough to warrant a spot in the deck. His static ability isn’t bad, his plus can give us some instant speed wraths, which isn’t bad. I think his minus just costs a little too much, and overall I would rather be drawing something else than Teferi.
Angrath, Captain of Chaos – Angrath’s static ability really means nothing to this deck, and his minus is just okay. For four mana, you can do A LOT better.
Ashiok, Dream Render – Shutting off tutors/fetchlands is probably one of, if not the best static ability of all these planeswalkers. And she’s only three mana. Her minus really isn’t that valuable, so I’m not sure if she warrants a spot.
Dovin, Hand of Control – This is another good static ability, and his minus isn’t bad. I would say I’ll keep an eye on this card, as his 3 converted mana cost is appealing. Just not sure where he would fit exactly.
Huatli, the Sun's Heart – Probably one of the more creature centric planeswalkers of the bunch, so it’ll have to be a pass for this list. Not even good in a token planeswalker deck.
Kaya, Bane of the Dead – Six mana is probably a bit too much, even with repeated removal.
Kiora, Behemoth Beckoner – It’s unlikely her static ability will ever fire, and her minus is just okay.
Nahiri, Storm of Stone – Again, static ability just doesn’t work well with our deck and her minus is fairly weak.
Saheeli, Sublime Artificer – If we had more powerful artifacts, this card might be good. Generating chump blockers for each planeswalker you cast is pretty good, especially at 3 mana.
Samut, Tyrant Smasher – Will we ever get a RG planeswalker that isn’t just about creatures?
Vraska, Swarm's Eminence – In general, the ability on the token she creates won’t be that useful for us, but rather against us, so it’s not really worth much to run in this deck.
Tezzeret, Master of the Bridge – This deck doesn’t run enough artifacts to really make use of his abilities, but I could see him being good in a more artifacts centric superfriends deck.
Ignite the Beacon – Similar to Call the Gatewatch, just a little more expensive and two planeswalkers. Overall, I don’t think this is worth it compared to running another black, catch-all tutor. That being said, I think this is better than Call the Gatewatch. EDIT: Just realized this is an instant. That may change things. I'm keeping an eye on this and will consider it for the list.
The Elderspell – Well this is problematic for this deck, right? One reason we might want to run this is because we can pick off our own planeswalkers (and a few of our opponents) and just ult on the spot. This is a dangerous approach. I would rather leave this card out of my graveyard, as I don’t want it to be the target of an opponent’s Spelltwine or something similar.
Niv-Mizzet Reborn – Another five-mana commander, but the ability just doesn’t work that well this deck. There’s definitely better options, especially our Queen.
Oath of Kaya – The enter the battlefield effect isn’t the most powerful but can possibly do some damage such as taking out a Kaalia or another smaller commander. The attack triggered ability isn’t that powerful, though it might deter your opponents enough from attacking your planeswalkers this turn.
Interplanar Beacon – The lifegain on this card isn’t crazy, but could possibly add up over the game. I’m not sure if this is worth a spot or not, though. Filtering mana for planeswalkers is good, but is it worth replacing any of our current lands?
Karn's Bastion – So this card I think we should run. I think it pushes our planeswalkers enough to make them that much more likely to ultimate, and make the overall flow of the deck much better. This works very well with something like Ral Zarek as well.
Karn, the Great Creator - Shuts down mana rocks and equipments, which is interesting to think of. Unfortunately, his plus is too artifact centric. On top of that, the effectiveness of his minus working in EDH depends on your playgroup, according to the rules (tutoring outside of the game).
Ugin, the Ineffable – I was really hoping for Ugin to be good, because I love his 8 version. That said, this one just doesn’t fit this deck. This is mainly because his static ability doesn’t work all that well with our deck. His plus is okay, as it provides a little chump blocker that becomes a draw, and his minus isn’t terrible. He’s also 6, which isn’t particularly cheap.
The Wanderer – This card could be relevant if you have a lot of burn in your meta, but that isn’t much of a thing in EDH. The minus is pretty strong, as well. But overall, this card isn’t strong enough to fit in the 99.
Kasmina, Enigmatic Mentor – The passive ability isn’t terrible, but isn’t amazing either. The same goes for the minus. Another uncommon that just can’t justify itself in the 99.
Narset, Parter of Veils – Ah, finally a good uncommon planeswalker. Converted mana cost is three, passive ability is very relevant in the format, and the minus is alright. I wish this card had a super simple plus, like “Scry 1.” as it would make the card much justified in the 99. Even as the best uncommon planesewalker (in my opinion) it still has a hard time justifying itself against other cards.
Liliana, Dreadhorde General – Liliana’s beefiest form, and justifiably. Her passive ability is strong, just not that strong in this deck unfortunately. That being said, it works well with her plus as well as the many other forms of generating tokens in this deck. Her minus is almost a board wipe, and handles indestructible and hexproof, which is a plus. Her ultimate probably is going to win you the game. Overall, I like her a lot and I’m considering finding her a spot in the deck. That being said, I’m trying to avoid stacking up high cmc in this deck.
Sarkhan the Masterless – The static ability is not very effective, that being said, his plus is a possible win condition, and could add some needed pressure to our opponents. That being said, it also turns paints a big Doom Blade target and your planeswalkers’s heads.
Nicol Bolas, Dragon-God – Grand daddy planeswalker. I’ll wait until testing, but I can almost confirm this is the strongest planeswalker card for a superfriends deck, bar none. His static ability is going to be insane for this deck. This means he can come down with a Doubling Season and either activate his ultimate, OR activate an ultimate of another planeswalker on the battlefield with a cost of 8 loyalty. His plus is nothing to scoff at, his minus is just good removal and his ultimate can literally win the game on the spot. I can’t wait to run this card.
Tamiyo, Colllector of Tales – This card isn’t bad, but it’s tough to evaluate otherwise. Her static ability is good, as it protects us from eldrazi and other sacrifice/discard effects, and her minus is a Regrowth, which I get a lot of mileage out of. That being said, her plus is pretty iffy, even with her minus working alongside it. Since commnader is a singleton format, you literally can’t draw more than one card, and you have to hope that you either guess correctly or have a Sensei's Divining Top.
Teferi, Time Raveler – I do love me some 3 converted mana cost planeswalkers, but I’m not sure if Teferi is powerful enough to warrant a spot in the deck. His static ability isn’t bad, his plus can give us some instant speed wraths, which isn’t bad. I think his minus just costs a little too much, and overall I would rather be drawing something else than Teferi.
Ashiok, Dream Render – Shutting off tutors/fetchlands is probably one of, if not the best static ability of all these planeswalkers. And she’s only three mana. Her minus really isn’t that valuable, so I’m not sure if she warrants a spot.
Dovin, Hand of Control – This is another good static ability, and his minus isn’t bad. I would say I’ll keep an eye on this card, as his 3 converted mana cost is appealing. Just not sure where he would fit exactly.
Saheeli, Sublime Artificer – If we had more powerful artifacts, this card might be good. Generating chump blockers for each planeswalker you cast is pretty good, especially at 3 mana.
Ignite the Beacon – Similar to Call the Gatewatch, just a little more expensive and two planeswalkers. Overall, I don’t think this is worth it compared to running another black, catch-all tutor. That being said, I think this is better than Call the Gatewatch. EDIT: Just realized this is an instant. That may change things. I'm keeping an eye on this and will consider it for the list.
The Elderspell – Well this is problematic for this deck, right? One reason we might want to run this is because we can pick off our own planeswalkers (and a few of our opponents) and just ult on the spot. This is a dangerous approach. I would rather leave this card out of my graveyard, as I don’t want it to be the target of an opponent’s Spelltwine or something similar.
Interplanar Beacon – The lifegain on this card isn’t crazy, but could possibly add up over the game. I’m not sure if this is worth a spot or not, though. Filtering mana for planeswalkers is good, but is it worth replacing any of our current lands?
Karn's Bastion – So this card I think we should run. I think it pushes our planeswalkers enough to make them that much more likely to ultimate, and make the overall flow of the deck much better. This works very well with something like Ral Zarek as well.
These are the ones that I'm currently looking at, and I've already started adding a few.
The one's I'm trying:
Karn's Bastion is basically any card. Having a Contagion Clasp in our lands lets us get an effect we want in our mana base, which opens up our non-lands for either another card or proliferation redundancy.
Interplanar Beacon is a lot more flexible than it looks at first glance. The life gain looks nice, but the important thing is the color filtering ability has a generic cost attached to it. The fact it's not any two color combination is a bit of a drawback, but getting colors off of Reliquary Tower seems tempting enough to me to give it a shot.
Ignite the Beacon is an instant. I'm testing it because it looks like it can help assemble a new infinite combo with Nicol Bolas, Dragon-God (will go into that will Nicol Bolas).
Ashiok, Dream Render is probably the best hate card we got in this set. Killing their search effects is powerful. And as someone who's played their fair share of Muldrotha, you can never hate on their graveyards hard enough. Being stuck on sorcery speed is a drawback, but it's leagues better than nothing. My dream is to ult Teferi, Temporal Archmage someday and use this card's minus after a Vampiric Tutor resolves on someone that doesn't know how much trouble they're in.
Nicol Bolas, the Dragon-God is going to be a lynch-pin in the future. Rather than go through all the different abilities he could use, I'm going to focus on there's already a degenerate combo with him that OTK's the entire table. If you have him out with Jace, Cunning Castaway and use Jace's -5 ability to make the non-legendary clones through Bolas instead, those clones come out as Nicol Bolas, Dragon-Gods. So if you combine these two walkers with The Chain Veil, Oath of Gideon, Pir, Imaginative Rascal, or Doubling Season you can -5 Nicol Bolas Dragon indefinitely through one turn. Then after you flood the board with an arbitrary large number of Dragon-Gods, all the ones you haven't activated can exile all opposing hands and permanents. If you have Double Season, you can follow up with his own ult. to win the game on the spot (although anyone that doesn't scoop to being hardlocked by a flood of Dragon-Gods is only kidding themselves). Even without that combo, this Bolas is already in my 99... but so is cunning Castaway.
Liliana, Dreadhorde General made the cut in my 99 when I realized that her static ability triggers off creature tokens, including her own. The rest of her abilities are things we look for in a planeswalker (defense, creature removal, mass destruction). So, she's in.
Narset, Parter of Veils has an ability that got banned from commander awhile ago, so sticking it with Azcanta's digging is something that I'm at least testing at the moment. In a more dedicated deck, she can wreck a table's hand. I'm not against looking into splashing Draw 7 cards because even without her Timetwister effects are good in a deck like ours.
Ugin, the Ineffable is something I'm testing because he's spot removal and an advantage engine. Granted his Static ability isn't good for this deck, but I want to see how the mechanics of the tokens work.
The rest in the quote I haven't mentioned aren't in my deck currently, but could be tested in the future. I'm not against them at the moment.
Nicol Bolas, Planeswalker -> Nicol Bolas, Dragon-God - Feel a little sad dropping OG Nicol Bolas, but he was one of the most expensive planeswalker, along with Ugin. This new Bolas is fairly similar in nature, as well, but is obviously cheaper and has a more powerful ultimate (and static ability).
Ob Nixilis Reignited -> Liliana, Dreadhorde General - Overall, I feel like Liliana is just better. Her static ability doesn't work too well in our favor, but combines well with her plus. Her two other abilities really work in favor of this deck, as well.
Time Spiral -> Ignite the Beacon - This is something I'm testing for now, to be honest. I have ample card draw, and Ignite the Beacon being an instant is pretty appealing to me. We'll see how it goes.
Tamiyo, Field Researcher -> Dovin, Hand of Control - Another thing I'm testing here. Tamiyo was never somethign I was really happy about drawing, and so I decided that I would test out Dovin. I could see myself quickly dropping him here, but we'll see.
Kher Keep -> Karn's Bastion - Kher Keep was underperforming, and being able to tick up our planeswalkers with mana we have left over will really help the tempo of this deck, I think.
Niv there's 11 cards in the deck that he would hit, many of them being the same color pair. Also not a big fan of, plus he's not 7/7+ which means he's a four turn clock versus 3.
Teferi seems okay. I may play test him because I love 3 mana planeswalkers, but he doesn't really provided too much value if you're being honest. I think I'll keep an eye on him for now.
I'm anticipating the Ugin card to be good, we'll see.
The end started when I used Narset's -2 to get rebound on Emergency Powers, free-casting Liliana Vess with the original spell. Estrid had a Bruna that was a problem due to hexproof and totem armors. I had God-Pharaoh and Austere Command in hand now, so I knew which one I wanted to try to use. Tutored for Doubling Season (almost chose Merciless Eviction) and ended up drawing Tamiyo, Field Researcher, too, which made it all the easier. Next turn I waived the rebound on Powers, cast Doubling Season, then Tamiyo and -7 on her, then God-Pharaoh and -12. Cast a few other walkers including Ob Nixilis Reignited and Garruk Wildspeaker, more digging into the deck, then Teferi, Temporal Archmage and took his emblem right away. More digging on each opponent's turn as they try to rebuild, which they were doing pretty well. During that I drew Sorin, Grim Nemesis, cast it on my turn and -9. Sixty of those vampire knights plus some slivers, beasts, thopters were on the field and I passed turn with 13 life.
Estrid declines to attack since they had some flyers but no trample and I had enough flying thopters to chump-block. On Kaseto's turn they only had their commander and River Boa. They pumped Kaseto once and attacked my with both, mana open for 3 more pumps. God-Pharaoh's -4 to target 7 damage at Kaseto, and in response they use all 3 pumps on Kaseto to save him, so I -3 Ob Nixilis to destroy him and only take 2 damage from the other snake. Untapped and used Wildspeaker's -4 for +3/+3 and trample on the tokens and swung away.
It may come to be that I'll need slightly more removal and possibly an additional wipe if I'm going to continue avoiding Humility.
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R Zada Arcane Storm
RBU Marchesa
GWU Estrid
GWR Samut?
URB Kess
(R/W)(U/B) Akiri & Silas
BWR Alesha
R Neheb Dragons
G Nylea Wurms
W Darien
U Tetsuko
In terms of actually winning games, Jace and the new Bolas are amazing. I may actually try Demonic Consultation to see if its worth running (although it ks quite a bit worse because you have to name a card first. Call the Gatewatch might finally be worth it! Although I want to shy away from tutoring for combo pieces (a self imposed restriction so games don't end the same way every time).
I got exactly what I wanted from this set! I hope the new bolas and jace are in the mythic edition,so I can have shiny cool versions of my win conditions!
old thread
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R Zada Arcane Storm
RBU Marchesa
GWU Estrid
GWR Samut?
URB Kess
(R/W)(U/B) Akiri & Silas
BWR Alesha
R Neheb Dragons
G Nylea Wurms
W Darien
U Tetsuko
Either way, a design like this is nuts as an uncommon. 3 mana hybrid planeswalker! This set is insane.
Fortunately, I don't think many people will run this. Hopefully.
On the upside now I won't feel bad about locking people out with Teferi, Hero of Dominaria & Stasis, or winning with the new Jace
Perhaps it's time to consider running faith's reward in addition to Teferi's protection?
On topic of legendary sorceries, I just realized that Urza's Ruinous Blast could be huge for our deck. Opinions?
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R Zada Arcane Storm
RBU Marchesa
GWU Estrid
GWR Samut?
URB Kess
(R/W)(U/B) Akiri & Silas
BWR Alesha
R Neheb Dragons
G Nylea Wurms
W Darien
U Tetsuko
Trav, I really like Urza's Ruinous Blast in theory, but I don't like that we would have to have a legendary in play to even cast it (we would presumably be casting this when behind), and as Lyonhaert said we won't be able to clear away any of the commanders in play. Also, it seems like most of the best creatures nowadays are legendary anyways (e.g. the new Boar God, etc.), so we'll be missing a lot, which makess this card pretty terrible for us given the stringent casting conditions.
I think the real secret tech is running Jokulhaups . It's pretty mean, but it is the best removal in the format for us: super cheap, and we get to keep all the best stuff, our enchantments and planeswalkers! Obliterate works too if you want to make this a win condition (which is probably what you should be doing if you don't want the table to hate you).
I have been playing with Sliver Hivelord as my main commander for a while now (whenever I'm not allowed to use Urza, Academy Headmaster ) , and I think and argument could be made that Hivelord is one of the best commanders for this deck. It is an indestructible blocker, it survives all our board while (except for Toxic Deluge), it doesn't die to The Abyss, and it basically guarantees that you can play Primeval's Glorious Rebirth whenever you want.
I know that he takes 5 hits to kill with commander damage instead of 3 with Sliver Queen, but I am not really interested in winning with commander damage with this deck, especially now that I run the trifecta of recently added win conditions (Dragon-God Bolas, Jace+Tainted Pact, and Approach of the Second Sun)
My deck has diverged quite a bit from yours at this point, Trav, but it is absolutely my favourite deck and I really appreciate your Primer. You brought together great info on superfriends in the format (before it was cool!)
Fair point about Jokulhaups, I only brought it in after my friend kept destroying all my lands with Ruination, so I thought I would return the favor haha
Yeah that card looks pretty sweet, I just am a little worried about the life loss, though I wish I didn't have to be lol
You have a bunch of spare life though, cause no one is ever attacking you.
This set looks great for the deck, even if i only want to add 1 of the 37 new planeswalkers.
Elderspell
deliver unto evil
command the dreadhorde
blast zone
interplaner beacon
edit: forgot my favorite card, spark double
Those are all pretty nifty, and i will test them.
Also the new mythic edition.
My deck will be soooo pimped! if only i could afford black border duals
These are actually amazing. I'm going to try and pick up a box and split it with my brother. Since he runs Ugin in his deck, I'll let him have it, as he will likely let me use Jace and Nicol Bolas (my new favorite walker of the deck).
Will you be playing the Elder Spell to kill other people's planeswalkers? I did realize recently that I had some difficulty dealing with other player's planeswalkers outside of Assasins trophy.
I just realized you can guarantee two cards with Deliver Onto Evil, which is awesome! It may still not make the cut though.
I’ll have 3. Nicol Bolas walkers. May as well try deliver unto evil to draw four from the yard.
I run Vindicate, Anguished Unmaking and Assassin's Trophy. You can even up it to Utter End, if need be.
Karn, the Great Creator - Shuts down mana rocks and equipments, which is interesting to think of. Unfortunately, his plus is too artifact centric. On top of that, the effectiveness of his minus working in EDH depends on your playgroup, according to the rules (tutoring outside of the game).
Ugin, the Ineffable – I was really hoping for Ugin to be good, because I love his 8 version. That said, this one just doesn’t fit this deck. This is mainly because his static ability doesn’t work all that well with our deck. His plus is okay, as it provides a little chump blocker that becomes a draw, and his minus isn’t terrible. He’s also 6, which isn’t particularly cheap.
Gideon Blackblade – This deck is very punishing for creatures. So not only does Gideon being a creature during your turn not bode well in this deck, neither does his plus, as it only would work with him and Sliver Queen.
Teyo, the Shieldmage – The static ability really isn’t that strong, and neither are the walls. I love three mana walkers, but this card can’t justify a spot in the 99.
The Wanderer – This card could be relevant if you have a lot of burn in your meta, but that isn’t much of a thing in EDH. The minus is pretty strong, as well. But overall, this card isn’t strong enough to fit in the 99.
Jace, Wielder of Mysteries – Just doesn’t stack up well compared to the other Jace options, unless you’re specifically looking to combo with his Laboratory Maniac passive.
Kasmina, Enigmatic Mentor – The passive ability isn’t terrible, but isn’t amazing either. The same goes for the minus. Another uncommon that just can’t justify itself in the 99.
Narset, Parter of Veils – Ah, finally a good uncommon planeswalker. Converted mana cost is three, passive ability is very relevant in the format, and the minus is alright. I wish this card had a super simple plus, like “Scry 1.” as it would make the card much justified in the 99. Even as the best uncommon planesewalker (in my opinion) it still has a hard time justifying itself against other cards.
Davriel, Rogue Shadowmage – This deck doesn’t reliably force discarding, and even if it did, the passive isn’t that powerful. Minus isn’t really either. And 3 loyalty counters isn’t helping.
Liliana, Dreadhorde General – Liliana’s beefiest form, and justifiably. Her passive ability is strong, just not that strong in this deck unfortunately. That being said, it works well with her plus as well as the many other forms of generating tokens in this deck. Her minus is almost a board wipe, and handles indestructible and hexproof, which is a plus. Her ultimate probably is going to win you the game. Overall, I like her a lot and I’m considering finding her a spot in the deck. That being said, I’m trying to avoid stacking up high cmc in this deck.
Ob Nixilis, the Hate-Twisted – At this cost, he’s probably not worth it. That being said, I could imagine him being really powerful if he was slightly cheaper.
Chandra, Fire Artisan – This might be because of the format, but overall I think her static ability is weak and her other abilities do not make up for it. Comparing this Chandra to something like Chandra, Torch of Defiance makes this card seem pretty weak.
Jaya, Venerated Firemage – Burn just isn’t that powerful in EDH, and so this card is pretty underwhelming in the format for the cost and effectiveness.
Sarkhan the Masterless – The static ability is not very effective, that being said, his plus is a possible win condition, and could add some needed pressure to our opponents. That being said, it also turns paints a big Doom Blade target and your planeswalkers’s heads.
Tibalt, Rakish Instigator – Tibalt still just not that good : /
Arlinn, Voice of the Pack – 6 converted mana cost, only interacts with wolves. Just doesn’t seem well fitting for this deck, at all.
Jiang Yanggu, Wildcrafter – Since we don’t run any creatures, this card does not interact very well with our deck besides our planeswalkers that generate tokens.
Nissa, Who Shakes the World – We do run a fair amount of forests (10 to be exact) but I don’t think that’s enough to justify this card. Her plus isn’t terrible, but also does not combo well with a high amount of wrath effects superfriend decks typically run.
Vivien, Champion of the Wilds – Another creature centric planeswalker that really doesn’t mesh well with the current list.
Ajani, the Greathearted – This card wouldn’t be so bad in a planeswalker token EDH deck, but the current list it doesn’t work well in.
Domri, Anarch of Bolas – Again, another card that work well with token as it acts as a Crusade on top of having other effects.
Nicol Bolas, Dragon-God – Grand daddy planeswalker. I’ll wait until testing, but I can almost confirm this is the strongest planeswalker card for a superfriends deck, bar none. His static ability is going to be insane for this deck. This means he can come down with a Doubling Season and either activate his ultimate, OR activate an ultimate of another planeswalker on the battlefield with a cost of 8 loyalty. His plus is nothing to scoff at, his minus is just good removal and his ultimate can literally win the game on the spot. I can’t wait to run this card.
Ral, Storm Conduit – I think if this card was maybe cheaper it would be okay, but at four mana, it’s just not that strong. His static ability is really weak, his plus could probably be scry 2 and his minus is just okay.
Sorin, Vengeful Bloodlord – Overall pretty weak planeswalker. He might be better surrounded by a few creatures he can give lifelink/reanimate, but alas, creatureless deck.
Tamiyo, Colllector of Tales – This card isn’t bad, but it’s tough to evaluate otherwise. Her static ability is good, as it protects us from eldrazi and other sacrifice/discard effects, and her minus is a Regrowth, which I get a lot of mileage out of. That being said, her plus is pretty iffy, even with her minus working alongside it. Since commnader is a singleton format, you literally can’t draw more than one card, and you have to hope that you either guess correctly or have a Sensei's Divining Top.
Teferi, Time Raveler – I do love me some 3 converted mana cost planeswalkers, but I’m not sure if Teferi is powerful enough to warrant a spot in the deck. His static ability isn’t bad, his plus can give us some instant speed wraths, which isn’t bad. I think his minus just costs a little too much, and overall I would rather be drawing something else than Teferi.
Angrath, Captain of Chaos – Angrath’s static ability really means nothing to this deck, and his minus is just okay. For four mana, you can do A LOT better.
Ashiok, Dream Render – Shutting off tutors/fetchlands is probably one of, if not the best static ability of all these planeswalkers. And she’s only three mana. Her minus really isn’t that valuable, so I’m not sure if she warrants a spot.
Dovin, Hand of Control – This is another good static ability, and his minus isn’t bad. I would say I’ll keep an eye on this card, as his 3 converted mana cost is appealing. Just not sure where he would fit exactly.
Huatli, the Sun's Heart – Probably one of the more creature centric planeswalkers of the bunch, so it’ll have to be a pass for this list. Not even good in a token planeswalker deck.
Kaya, Bane of the Dead – Six mana is probably a bit too much, even with repeated removal.
Kiora, Behemoth Beckoner – It’s unlikely her static ability will ever fire, and her minus is just okay.
Nahiri, Storm of Stone – Again, static ability just doesn’t work well with our deck and her minus is fairly weak.
Saheeli, Sublime Artificer – If we had more powerful artifacts, this card might be good. Generating chump blockers for each planeswalker you cast is pretty good, especially at 3 mana.
Samut, Tyrant Smasher – Will we ever get a RG planeswalker that isn’t just about creatures?
Vraska, Swarm's Eminence – In general, the ability on the token she creates won’t be that useful for us, but rather against us, so it’s not really worth much to run in this deck.
Jace, Arcane Strategist – Now even Jace is a creature centric planeswalker I guess?
Tezzeret, Master of the Bridge – This deck doesn’t run enough artifacts to really make use of his abilities, but I could see him being good in a more artifacts centric superfriends deck.
Ignite the Beacon – Similar to Call the Gatewatch, just a little more expensive and two planeswalkers. Overall, I don’t think this is worth it compared to running another black, catch-all tutor. That being said, I think this is better than Call the Gatewatch. EDIT: Just realized this is an instant. That may change things. I'm keeping an eye on this and will consider it for the list.
The Elderspell – Well this is problematic for this deck, right? One reason we might want to run this is because we can pick off our own planeswalkers (and a few of our opponents) and just ult on the spot. This is a dangerous approach. I would rather leave this card out of my graveyard, as I don’t want it to be the target of an opponent’s Spelltwine or something similar.
Niv-Mizzet Reborn – Another five-mana commander, but the ability just doesn’t work that well this deck. There’s definitely better options, especially our Queen.
Oath of Kaya – The enter the battlefield effect isn’t the most powerful but can possibly do some damage such as taking out a Kaalia or another smaller commander. The attack triggered ability isn’t that powerful, though it might deter your opponents enough from attacking your planeswalkers this turn.
Interplanar Beacon – The lifegain on this card isn’t crazy, but could possibly add up over the game. I’m not sure if this is worth a spot or not, though. Filtering mana for planeswalkers is good, but is it worth replacing any of our current lands?
Karn's Bastion – So this card I think we should run. I think it pushes our planeswalkers enough to make them that much more likely to ultimate, and make the overall flow of the deck much better. This works very well with something like Ral Zarek as well.
These are the ones that I'm currently looking at, and I've already started adding a few.
The one's I'm trying:
Karn's Bastion is basically any card. Having a Contagion Clasp in our lands lets us get an effect we want in our mana base, which opens up our non-lands for either another card or proliferation redundancy.
Interplanar Beacon is a lot more flexible than it looks at first glance. The life gain looks nice, but the important thing is the color filtering ability has a generic cost attached to it. The fact it's not any two color combination is a bit of a drawback, but getting colors off of Reliquary Tower seems tempting enough to me to give it a shot.
Ignite the Beacon is an instant. I'm testing it because it looks like it can help assemble a new infinite combo with Nicol Bolas, Dragon-God (will go into that will Nicol Bolas).
Ashiok, Dream Render is probably the best hate card we got in this set. Killing their search effects is powerful. And as someone who's played their fair share of Muldrotha, you can never hate on their graveyards hard enough. Being stuck on sorcery speed is a drawback, but it's leagues better than nothing. My dream is to ult Teferi, Temporal Archmage someday and use this card's minus after a Vampiric Tutor resolves on someone that doesn't know how much trouble they're in.
Nicol Bolas, the Dragon-God is going to be a lynch-pin in the future. Rather than go through all the different abilities he could use, I'm going to focus on there's already a degenerate combo with him that OTK's the entire table. If you have him out with Jace, Cunning Castaway and use Jace's -5 ability to make the non-legendary clones through Bolas instead, those clones come out as Nicol Bolas, Dragon-Gods. So if you combine these two walkers with The Chain Veil, Oath of Gideon, Pir, Imaginative Rascal, or Doubling Season you can -5 Nicol Bolas Dragon indefinitely through one turn. Then after you flood the board with an arbitrary large number of Dragon-Gods, all the ones you haven't activated can exile all opposing hands and permanents. If you have Double Season, you can follow up with his own ult. to win the game on the spot (although anyone that doesn't scoop to being hardlocked by a flood of Dragon-Gods is only kidding themselves). Even without that combo, this Bolas is already in my 99... but so is cunning Castaway.
Liliana, Dreadhorde General made the cut in my 99 when I realized that her static ability triggers off creature tokens, including her own. The rest of her abilities are things we look for in a planeswalker (defense, creature removal, mass destruction). So, she's in.
Narset, Parter of Veils has an ability that got banned from commander awhile ago, so sticking it with Azcanta's digging is something that I'm at least testing at the moment. In a more dedicated deck, she can wreck a table's hand. I'm not against looking into splashing Draw 7 cards because even without her Timetwister effects are good in a deck like ours.
Ugin, the Ineffable is something I'm testing because he's spot removal and an advantage engine. Granted his Static ability isn't good for this deck, but I want to see how the mechanics of the tokens work.
The rest in the quote I haven't mentioned aren't in my deck currently, but could be tested in the future. I'm not against them at the moment.
candidus inperti; si nil, his utere mecum.
~~~~~
Nicol Bolas, Planeswalker -> Nicol Bolas, Dragon-God - Feel a little sad dropping OG Nicol Bolas, but he was one of the most expensive planeswalker, along with Ugin. This new Bolas is fairly similar in nature, as well, but is obviously cheaper and has a more powerful ultimate (and static ability).
Ob Nixilis Reignited -> Liliana, Dreadhorde General - Overall, I feel like Liliana is just better. Her static ability doesn't work too well in our favor, but combines well with her plus. Her two other abilities really work in favor of this deck, as well.
Time Spiral -> Ignite the Beacon - This is something I'm testing for now, to be honest. I have ample card draw, and Ignite the Beacon being an instant is pretty appealing to me. We'll see how it goes.
Tamiyo, Field Researcher -> Dovin, Hand of Control - Another thing I'm testing here. Tamiyo was never somethign I was really happy about drawing, and so I decided that I would test out Dovin. I could see myself quickly dropping him here, but we'll see.
Kher Keep -> Karn's Bastion - Kher Keep was underperforming, and being able to tick up our planeswalkers with mana we have left over will really help the tempo of this deck, I think.