MTG Salvation

I was just thinking of some C-only lands that might be worth it in this deck:

• Nephalia Drownyard and Duskmantle, House of Shadow are on theme, even if they only contribute in a small way.
• Winding Canyons. You've got a lot of sorcery speed creatures and a good amount of instant speed interaction. This land can help relieve some of that tension.
• Myriad Landscape. This one comes into play tapped but it's just so good. Kind of a must-have for non-G, non-turn-4-combo decks in my mind.

Quote from Magnivore »

Quote from DarkSapphire »

If it doesn't end up getting banned, I'll be all about it. It's a fantastic political tool and milling for 13 is no joke. I'm not optimistic that we'll get to play with this card for very long though.

There's no way that's going to get banned; it's not anywhere near good enough.

True. I hope this doesn't get banned, indeed. There are harsher cards that aren't banned so I don't think this will get banned.

Let me tell you guys, I am so damn excited for the new tree. It borders on auto-include. I'd have been happy with a vanilla 0/13 for 4. The ability on top of it is just a knockout.

I'm not super worried about it being banned. Sorin Markov is still legal in EDH, so this should be fine.

Quote from Hunding Gjornersen »

I was just thinking of some C-only lands that might be worth it in this deck:

• Nephalia Drownyard and Duskmantle, House of Shadow are on theme, even if they only contribute in a small way.
• Winding Canyons. You've got a lot of sorcery speed creatures and a good amount of instant speed interaction. This land can help relieve some of that tension.
• Myriad Landscape. This one comes into play tapped but it's just so good. Kind of a must-have for non-G, non-turn-4-combo decks in my mind.

I had Nephalia Drownyard in the deck originally, but it was way too slow for the deck, which would apply to Duskmantle, House of Shadow as well. The others are interesting suggestions. I'll consider them. Thanks for the recommendations.

That tree is broken because if there were an opponent with more than 40 life, that means the tree could easily become 0/50 or something like that. Enchanted with something like Freed from the Real means you could basically mill out the entire table with a minimal investment in mana. I already see it as an auto-include in my own Phenax deck, lol.

Quote from DementedKirby »

That tree is broken because if there were an opponent with more than 40 life, that means the tree could easily become 0/50 or something like that. Enchanted with something like Freed from the Real means you could basically mill out the entire table with a minimal investment in mana. I already see it as an auto-include in my own Phenax deck, lol.

It's insanely powerful for sure with Phenax. I'd dare even say brokenly so. But it's too niche. Unless it causes a huge explosion in the number of Phenax and Doran decks overnight, I wouldn't expect it to get banned. The RC has explicitly stated that a card basically needs to be format warping to get banned. I'd expect Eater of the Dead to be banned for being too powerful of a mill card before the tree is, and that's never going to happen.

I can't even imagine why you guys are talking like this is even borderline in danger of a ban. Sorin Markov and Magister Sphinx are around and not looking like they're going anywhere, and this is like a telegraphed version of that. And let's not lie to ourselves, this is going to neatly power up Phenax, but it's not going to warp the format at all.

Quote from Wallabe »

Let me tell you guys, I am so damn excited for the new tree. It borders on auto-include. I'd have been happy with a vanilla 0/13 for 4. The ability on top of it is just a knockout.

Yes, the tree is going to be an excellent fit to Phenax EDH deck. I'm excited as well!
Opponent low in life? - Now its 13.
Opponent close to deckout? - Let's mill 13 then.

Tree of Perdition is broken for those players who love gaining a lot of life. Either way, if the game has been to a stall (which it probably has because walls don't usually attack), more often than not, an opponent is gonna have 40+ life. That means the tree is gonna be 0/40 a lot of the time. Combined with ways to tap/untap it, you can easily mill any player not running cards that shuffle back into the deck or Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre or Kozilek, Butcher of Truth, or Gaea's Blessing.

Have you thought about Laboratory Maniac as a way to get around both the multiplayer nature of EDH and opposing Eldrazi: just mill yourself instead?

Quote from sperlman »

Have you thought about Laboratory Maniac as a way to get around both the multiplayer nature of EDH and opposing Eldrazi: just mill yourself instead?

That's actually a pretty good idea. But Laboratory Maniac requires some intense protection otherwise you're basically committing suicide. There are ways of getting around the original Eldrazi titans reshuffling someone's deck. Namely exiling their graveyard in response. So it's all good if you're running Tormod's Crypt and Nihil Spellbomb. I also run a lot of spells that search for libraries to exile cards for good measure.

Fair point, I actually ended up cutting the Lab Maniac package from my list and I'm now testing this:



So far, I'm 3-1. What do you think?

Quote from sperlman »

Have you thought about Laboratory Maniac as a way to get around both the multiplayer nature of EDH and opposing Eldrazi: just mill yourself instead?

DementedKirby made some good points, but my biggest complaint is that it feels contrary to the spirit of the deck. Laboratory Maniac in this deck just turns the game into solitaire.

Quote from sperlman »

Fair point, I actually ended up cutting the Lab Maniac package from my list and I'm now testing this:


So far, I'm 3-1. What do you think?

It seems like a really solid list. It's similar enough to mine, and thus the primer, that I don't need to touch on everything, but a few things jump out at me. First of all, Mindshrieker is really interesting. I'm not sure why I've never considered it, but I"m going to have to. I'm not sure Oblivion Sower is going to give you enough utility. And Mirko Vosk, Mind Drinker seems a bit weak for the deck. He doesn't mill that much, especially needing to deal combat damage without any support from the deck. There are on-color creatures with far better on-damage triggers.
is g

Some more thoughts:

• Dread gives you the No Mercy effect with 6 toughness attached, though it's admittedly more expensive, more B intensive and a more vulnerable card type.
• Have you thought about going heavier into planeswalkers? They seem like a reliable way to generate card advantage in a deck full of awesome blockers. In particular Jace, Vryn's Prodigy and Ashiok, Nightmare Weaver could do some good work.
• Do you ever have any difficulty pairing Tainted Isle with a Swamp? Is it worth running Urborg?
• This one's an extremely small point but I think that Pongify is slightly better than Rapid Hybridization because it makes a token with one creature type instead of two. People love Coat of Arms and a really good frog saw print recently.

First off, thanks for the suggestions

Quote from Hunding Gjornersen »

Some more thoughts:

• Dread gives you the No Mercy effect with 6 toughness attached, though it's admittedly more expensive, more B intensive and a more vulnerable card type.

I have considered Dread a few times. Like you said though, it's got enough downsides compared to No Mercy that I passed on it. Re-reading it though, I wonder if it might be enough protection against Mesmeric Orb. If that one extra turn can't save me, I may have bigger problems.

Quote from Hunding Gjornersen »

Have you thought about going heavier into planeswalkers? They seem like a reliable way to generate card advantage in a deck full of awesome blockers. In particular Jace, Vryn's Prodigy and Ashiok, Nightmare Weaver could do some good work.

I have, though I'm not totally sure where I'd put them. Jace, Vryn's Prodigy would be lower on the list though, and Ashiok, Nightmare Weaver is actually way too slow of a mill card for this deck. Were it not for the cost, Jace, the Mind Sculptor would top the list. As it stand, Jace, Unraveler of Secrets tops my list.

Quote from Hunding Gjornersen »

Do you ever have any difficulty pairing Tainted Isle with a Swamp? Is it worth running Urborg?

I may not always have it right away, but I've never had a real problem. Personally, I'd pass on Urborg. It stands to help your opponents a lot more than it does you with a deck like this.

Quote from Hunding Gjornersen »

This one's an extremely small point but I think that Pongify is slightly better than Rapid Hybridization because it makes a token with one creature type instead of two. People love Coat of Arms and a really good frog saw print recently.

Interesting. I'll keep this in mind.

So, it's time for me to take a look at the most recent set. There were just a few cards that stood out to me as worth a look.

Tree of Perdition: As we've established, this looks like an amazing fit and is damn near auto-include.
Geist of the Archives: It's worth considering. 4 toughness for three isn't terrible when paired with a free scry every turn.
Cathar's Shield: It's on flavor, and the 0 cmc is nice. But the perks don't outweigh the costs and the need to equip to something else.

That's about it. It's a short list this time around, there doesn't seem to be a ton of relevant cards in this set.

Quote from Wallabe »

So, it's time for me to take a look at the most recent set. There were just a few cards that stood out to me as worth a look.

Tree of Perdition: As we've established, this looks like an amazing fit and is damn near auto-include.
Geist of the Archives: It's worth considering. 4 toughness for three isn't terrible when paired with a free scry every turn.
Cathar's Shield: It's on flavor, and the 0 cmc is nice. But the perks don't outweigh the costs and the need to equip to something else.

That's about it. It's a short list this time around, there doesn't seem to be a ton of relevant cards in this set.

You're already not running Accorder's Shield, so Cathar's Shield is no better. Or different.

Quote from lyonhaert »

Quote from Wallabe »

So, it's time for me to take a look at the most recent set. There were just a few cards that stood out to me as worth a look.

Tree of Perdition: As we've established, this looks like an amazing fit and is damn near auto-include.
Geist of the Archives: It's worth considering. 4 toughness for three isn't terrible when paired with a free scry every turn.
Cathar's Shield: It's on flavor, and the 0 cmc is nice. But the perks don't outweigh the costs and the need to equip to something else.

That's about it. It's a short list this time around, there doesn't seem to be a ton of relevant cards in this set.

You're already not running Accorder's Shield, so Cathar's Shield is no better. Or different.

Interesting. I wasn't going to run it anyways, but I didn't realize it was a functional reprint.

Minor update. My tests with Sire of Stagnation have echoed what others have said. It was either pretty much dead on arrival, or people were able to just not play more lands. I may eventually test Dread Summons, but right now I don't have a card to replace Praetor's Grasp that also has an exile component. For that reason, I'll instead be testing Wake Thrasher in its place rather than for Knacksaw Clique. I'd rather not give up to exile sources. In my current meta, Knacksaw Clique seems far more useful than Praetor's Grasp. If I swap it out though, the latter will likely end up on the Meta-Specific list.

I'm also testing Glacial Wall >> Tree of Perdition. In its first game it did some serious work and didn't draw nearly the hate I'd expected, so I'm excited.

Quote from Wallabe »

Geist of the Archives: It's worth considering. 4 toughness for three isn't terrible when paired with a free scry every turn.

This has to be better than Hover Barrier, right?

Quote from Hunding Gjornersen »

Quote from Wallabe »

Geist of the Archives: It's worth considering. 4 toughness for three isn't terrible when paired with a free scry every turn.

This has to be better than Hover Barrier, right?

Mostly. The 2 toughness and lack of flying does hinder the geist in terms of pillowfort. But I'll likely give it a try.

Ugh, I would almost prefer Thassa, God of the Sea over Geist of the Archives. He does slightly more and is a better creature when devotion is reached.



A little off topic but has anyone see Soliton before? I've been trying along with Horseshoe Crab and jank equipment like Slagwurm Armor and Umbral Mantle. The results have been fairly positive. Most people ignore him as his stats are underwhelming. Throw some equipment on him and he's liable to mill someone out.

Now that's a fun jank card. Do it!

With regards to the whole Hover Barrier etc debate, how often would you hit devotion for Thassa? Having an indestructible 5/5 is pretty nice from a fort point of view, assuming you could reliably get her online.

Quote from Wallabe »

...lack of flying...

I completely missed that Geist of the Archives doesn't fly. That makes the decision a lot more difficult.

I find that nearly every time I play Thassa, God of the Sea she's animated. I play cards like Lazav, Dimir Mastermind, Memory Erosion and many others with 2U. I often find that I don't want Phenax, God of Deception animated, however. The risk of someone stealing her and hosing me are too great.

Quote from Rumpy5897 »

Now that's a fun jank card. Do it!

With regards to the whole Hover Barrier etc debate, how often would you hit devotion for Thassa? Having an indestructible 5/5 is pretty nice from a fort point of view, assuming you could reliably get her online.

I tested devotion for Erebos, God of the Dead waaaayyy back when. Ultimately, this deck has a harder time getting five devotion of a single color than seven of two. Which means that I wouldn't reliably be able to turn Thassa, God of the Sea into a creature. And so while she's generally a far superior card, I would expect the geist to be better more consistently for this deck.

Quote from Hunding Gjornersen »

Quote from Wallabe »

...lack of flying...

I completely missed that Geist of the Archives doesn't fly. That makes the decision a lot more difficult.

Yeah, if it had flying, this choice would be no contest. As it is though, the geist is holding up well so far in testing.