Made some changes tonight after finally acquiring some new beauties for Mishra!!
In: Guardian Beast - Another Darksteel forge for my win cond, and a 4 drop one at that Metalworker - mega ramp! Scalding Tarn - Adding fetches package to smooth manabase Bloodstained Mire - Adding fetches package to smooth manabase Polluted Delta - Adding fetches package to smooth manabase Reflecting Pool - more versatile land than the storage lands imo
Out: Dimir Signet - Signets are solid, metalworkers are better Silent-Blade Oni - 'good stuff' card that also synergizes with Mishra. That said, he is too pricey a CC to be useful in my build anymore Evolving Wilds / Terramorphic Expanse - Bad fetches Dreadship Reef / Molten Slagheap - Kept telling myself i'd use these as storage lands, and never end up doing so
Okay So its been a bit since I've commented here so I figure I should mention that cause I'm going to be reaching deep into pages for comments:
The Dragons Hellkite Charger: Unless you are playing Sword of feast and famine (which I have at multiple points) It is weak and just too mana intensive to be any use for us as it invloves a nonartifact creature which means it vulnerable to possibility storm. Hellkite Igniter I want this card to work so much. I have tried it over 3 times over a period of 4 years now and it just is too slow. Sure its GG if it lands a hit but if you're dead at that point its not like that dragon can fix that. Its just too slow even in my deck where I think I ramp even more that your guys' lists. Hellkite tyrant: too risk. I tried it and got a win out of it at one point but with multiple decks that use blue it turns to I lose all my artifacts to clones. However it was fun to steal a Phyrexian metamorph version from someone and all my artifacts back. Steel Hellkite: The only Dragon I love anymore. Steel acts as my main form of enchantment/PW removal. I find he is easy to tutor up when needed and still hits like a truck.
Otherstuff: Null Profusion: this card is a lot of fun if you can get an infinite mana combo set up but I prefer Sensei's divining top + rings of brighthearth to draw cards because at that point I win. Metalworker: I actually dislike mr. Roboto in here. In my version atleadt I am colored mana starved and almost always have colorless around to use and abuse. Your list has more colorless to use which makes more sense to why it is in your list. blood funnel: i personally hate this card. I loath it actually. I have a foil copy and tried it multiple times but It just always doesn't seem to work for me. I often need to cast something that isn't an artifact or creature and it often ruins my game plan instead of advancing them but then again I play a drop my deck on the field version of Mishra.
FETCHS
Okay enter my very weird viewpoints here. So with mishra each time we cast an artifact we get a shuffle trigger which is the main point of Fetches in my mind. Sure deck thinning can be useful but when we establish a P-storm synergy out deck thinning doesn't matter. I have found that when I replaced my fetches with basics, the deck ran better. Back to basics and ruination didn't hit as hard, My deck seemed to run a bit smoother in general. I personally find that the life loss is actually quite detrimental as I am normally a huge target when I play mishra but Then again my list and group vs others. Thus why I think Fetches aren't needed.
I apologize for any bad grammar in there as I am typing quickly while I wait to pick up my Father and brother from the airport.
Okay So its been a bit since I've commented here so I figure I should mention that cause I'm going to be reaching deep into pages for comments:
The Dragons Hellkite Charger: Unless you are playing Sword of feast and famine (which I have at multiple points) It is weak and just too mana intensive to be any use for us as it invloves a nonartifact creature which means it vulnerable to possibility storm. Hellkite Igniter I want this card to work so much. I have tried it over 3 times over a period of 4 years now and it just is too slow. Sure its GG if it lands a hit but if you're dead at that point its not like that dragon can fix that. Its just too slow even in my deck where I think I ramp even more that your guys' lists. Hellkite tyrant: too risk. I tried it and got a win out of it at one point but with multiple decks that use blue it turns to I lose all my artifacts to clones. However it was fun to steal a Phyrexian metamorph version from someone and all my artifacts back. Steel Hellkite: The only Dragon I love anymore. Steel acts as my main form of enchantment/PW removal. I find he is easy to tutor up when needed and still hits like a truck.
Agree with you 100%. I want igniter to work as well, if for no other reason than i love the artwork. Steel Hellkite is a boss.
Otherstuff: Null Profusion: this card is a lot of fun if you can get an infinite mana combo set up but I prefer Sensei's divining top + rings of brighthearth to draw cards because at that point I win. Metalworker: I actually dislike mr. Roboto in here. In my version atleadt I am colored mana starved and almost always have colorless around to use and abuse. Your list has more colorless to use which makes more sense to why it is in your list. blood funnel: i personally hate this card. I loath it actually. I have a foil copy and tried it multiple times but It just always doesn't seem to work for me. I often need to cast something that isn't an artifact or creature and it often ruins my game plan instead of advancing them but then again I play a drop my deck on the field version of Mishra.
How successful has Top + Rings been for you? thats a really cool synergy. Do you tend to pair that with infinite mana? I think the only time a player should run null profusion is when they are comboing out - its a very weak card to discard effects, as it self locks you out of a game.
@Metalworker / Blood funnel - sounds like your reasoning for metalworker goes hand in hand with your experience with blood funnel. More colorless costs = more value out of funnel and worker. Less colorless cost = less value.
FETCHS
Okay enter my very weird viewpoints here. So with mishra each time we cast an artifact we get a shuffle trigger which is the main point of Fetches in my mind. Sure deck thinning can be useful but when we establish a P-storm synergy out deck thinning doesn't matter. I have found that when I replaced my fetches with basics, the deck ran better. Back to basics and ruination didn't hit as hard, My deck seemed to run a bit smoother in general. I personally find that the life loss is actually quite detrimental as I am normally a huge target when I play mishra but Then again my list and group vs others. Thus why I think Fetches aren't needed.
I apologize for any bad grammar in there as I am typing quickly while I wait to pick up my Father and brother from the airport.
I have yet to experiment with my fetches. I am fortunate that as a long time legacy player, i have a great suite of fetches to draw from, so i happen to have them all on hand. I am currently working on getting some ravnica duals for the deck that will replace the vivid lands (and ultimately give the fetches more value).
Im curious why no cranial plating as it allows us to use commander damage as an alternative wincon.
Crosis's Charm is a love hate card for me. I hate to include it because i dont like the risk of possibility storm into it. That said, its highly effective spot removal and has gotten me out of really pinch situations. To date, my favorite plays have been destroying a assault suit attached to a loaned Zurgo, then whacking his owner upside the head with him; and once bouncing a prossh mid swing. Its just too darn versatile for me to cut.
@Cranial Plating - i have no good excuse. I need to get a copy and play with it. Same goes for bludgeon brawl. I think if i go that route, i will load up on equipment evasion, as my meta plays very fair edh, and mishra will need to sneak past defenses rather than plow through them in his artifact armor.
I'd personally wouldn't run those, since they need a lot of effort put into it to work. You'll want to have atleast 6 Artifacts for the first one two work AND a card to avoid chumpblock.
Cards like Hatred would be my first choice, since you won't remove multiple opponents with this strategy and it'S much more explosive.
Don't get me wrong hatred is one of my favorite cards but I think is just awful in this deck as we try to abuse Possibility storm. With Mishra getting a voltron kill in my deck atleast its not hard. I often have 8-15 artifacts on the field on any turn 6+ so hitting someone for a surprise amount of damage is easy as cranial plating can be moved around for just :symb:. Typically between a wurmcoil, sharding sphinx and Mishra swinging, mnishra nearly never gets blocked and that nice easy move is what kills when it needs to but then again that's not our main wincon so.
So something to consider about Cranial Plating - and i say this without testing the card - is that it adds a threat to our game plan. Sure, its not an ideal win condition, and not the best in our deck, but its a single card that can win the game combined with the rest of our deck. I think that reasoning alone gives it enough value to merit play testing. Sure, we might not turn Mishra into a 2 clock or 3 clock easily; but lets say you get a few hits with mishra in, and they have 12 commander damage or what have you, suddenly it becomes really easy late game for this card to catch them unawares.
I think the main misconception here is that Ulka is asking why not include it, and the responses have treated it like a primary win cond - when I would treat it as a fall back option. Even without commander damage, it can really enable any puny creature in our deck to become a beater threat.
I do see your point, and I truly forgot the possibility to instantly change the equipment target.
But if this Artifact is a threat to anyone, it is just a miserable play to not block all of your creatures - espescially Mishra. This seems kinda...very bad play in your meta. In other words - Equipment - even at instantspeed - is not a surprise for me.
Furthermore this artifact is dead in the first 6 turns, a kinda miserable topdeck since you need a boardstate and extremly bad after a boardwipe which hits our artifacts as well.
Hatred would eliminate those negative impacts with the loss of repitive damage. But it is truely a surprise for your opponents cause they don't see this comming.
Btw: I had a quick look at your deck.
You'd need 46 Artifacts to have 6 of them at turn 6 in your hand without carddraw (6 of 13)
You do play a total of 38 Artifacts. I actually can't imagine that there is a "often" chance to have more than around 8 Artifacts on board at turn 6, even with a lot of carddraw. And I am not yet counting in their manacurve since a lot of your artifacts are T3 or higher.Or even your opponents, since once you drop your first two ramps or goblin welder they should hit you with a wrath or spotremoval.
Sorry this past few weeks have been quite busy so I haven;t had time to post as much as I want to. Im just going to say we have an apples oranges view on this and we leave it at that. I find it is a great card as it puts damage in no matter the blockers. It probably is my meta but I never need a wipe but rather need to stop board wipes but that's due to our hand selection rules where you draw 10 cards to start then shuffle 3 back into the deck. So I find I have plenty of artifacts by turn 6. But then again I play a different type of Mishra than most where I just try to drop my deck onto the field.
Im not saying its my main wincon or second wincon its a tertiary wincon like rewind had said. and Yes When you talked about hatred is why I talked about liek it is a primary as in some situations it is my primary wincon based on how the game plays out.
And I guess I should explain my mentality of mishra- I dont play him for stax value I play him for the stupid interaction between p-storm. I have enough stax decks already when I built this and meh again apples and oranges.
If my meta keeps up with the global artifact wipes, i might have to start loading up on counter magic / reintroduce ice caves. Either that or i may have to play some other decks for a short period to dissuade them from loading up on mishra hate.
Long-Term Plans is a good one - probably wont put it in, 3 turns away is too much to deal with, unless i have a 2nd part on hand, but then if i go to all that tutor effort, i want to drop it the same turn, so we are at ~6cc before i even get to cast my artifact. Definitely something to consider.
I am pretty opposed to tutors. In my opinion, in the heirarchy of hardcore try hard builds Tutors are the #1 most flagrant cards. I try not to overload on those, because then i will just tutor for my win every game, which i dont fine interactive or fun. Because i dont use tutors, torpor orb is great (already run it); but then i have to have it in play before hand.
As a big fish in my play group, if i play lattice, my group will go to any lengths to bring me down. Even at the cost of their current boardstate. Lattice normally means that im going to sen triplets away their stuff, or karn blast their lands, or nuke the game with niv disk.
Thanks for the input dude! I will tinker with long term plans. I like that card a lot, used to run it in azami as a win cond fetch.
One piece at a time, since you gave a lot to think about:
My thought was to use a kind of underwhelming tutor (as Long-Term is) which doesn't necessarily contradicts to your no tutor rules but still give you the "Counter" you want.
In Response to Bane of Progress:
Long-Term Plans for Darksteel Forge, Thirst of Knowledge to discard the Forge, Weld Sol ring into Forge.
I know, that's 3 1/2 Cards total - but atleast it's not a counterspell and a lightweight tutor.
Man that would be cool to respond with. Like, dayum i'd feel like a hoss. That said, as you said, its a heck of a set up. Let me clarify something on Long-Term: I do not consider it a true tutor, and would consider running it. Its less mana efficient than vampiric or demonic tutor, doesn't replace itself in my hand, and is disruptable by my opponents in many ways (force me to draw then discard, mill, exile top of library, etc.) I think its a completely legitimate card to use, and will consider it strongly. Especially since i have a bunch laying about; anything i already own is something i'll consider running for a game or two.
Or as I already stated when I posted my list: Use Knowledge Pool. I had a game where I was able to put a copy into play of it, so I was able to choose from both pools and my opponents had to use the cards from the Pool I choosed for them (mine having Pos. Storm and Blightsteel in it as well as Mirrorworks with a metamorph on hand. Yeah that game was a win :D)
That's some sort of a soft counter as well - if someone plays the hate against you, you just choose a pool without hate. Only works once per copied pool though
I have yet to have a great experience with Knowledge pool. I have heard many mishra players (there are literally dozens of us...DOZENS!!) use it to success, and others arent so big on the card.
Go with Entomb
Only amazing with welder really, and that poor little guy has earned notoriety in my playgroup. Without welder its not BAD, since i run tons of recursion, but at that point it's round about. I like the effect, i need to find a permanent that can do what it does, even if its slower. I will definitely consider it.
If you run Cunning Wish you can choose a counterspell in response to an artifact massremoval with the words: "Guys, I do not want to tune this deck even further with controlmagic and tutors..."
Wouldnt fly in my playgroup. Wishes are strictly taboo, we dont play with SBs, and people would be very sore if i dropped that in response.
All in all, i think the solution is run some sort of pseudo tutor, like Long-Term or Entomb for answers. Currently looking for a card in our colors that can create a repeatable entomb; that could be fun and disruptable (if they can see it in my grave, that gives them plenty of time and plenty of options to hate against it).
Edit
Current front runner for the slot: Intuition - Why choose between long term, a tutor, or entomb, when i can do all of them!
Looking for a card to cut to re-incorporate ice cave. Open to suggestions assuming someone provides reasoning why a card doesnt forward my goals
Presumably all you cards further your goal to some extent. IMO you should cut a "good stuff" card which is helpful but not necessary and has minimal or no synergy with your artifact theme.
Etched Championn (without Cranial Plating) is ...a chump blocker for non-trampling non-flyers? Beyond that, it looks like you devote a lot of slots mostly to generate card advantage - I think you could spare a little. Consider that Ice Cave also generates card advantage by countering more of your opponents' spells than your own - at the same time straining your opponents' available mana as they use it against each other!
Etched Championn (without Cranial Plating) is ...a chump blocker for non-trampling non-flyers? Beyond that, it looks like you devote a lot of slots mostly to generate card advantage - I think you could spare a little. Consider that Ice Cave also generates card advantage by countering more of your opponents' spells than your own - at the same time straining your opponents' available mana as they use it against each other!
I wont be cutting champion. My meta currently is incredibly creature heavy, stiflingly so, so i need cheap blockers that are hard to remove / squish.
Good point on the card draw. I am still tinkering; but i appreciate the suggestions all!!
If my meta keeps up with the global artifact wipes, i might have to start loading up on counter magic / reintroduce ice caves. Either that or i may have to play some other decks for a short period to dissuade them from loading up on mishra hate.
For counter-spells, I'm inclined towards those which we might use on ourselves. Mana Drain (I wish!), Arcane Denial, Fold into Æther, Rewind, and any such spells I've missed. Of Course Ice Caves is the best!
Cutting Thirst For Knowledge in favour of Arcane Denial seems solid. Both can net you three cards. Denial doesn't stoke your graveyard, but the extra defensive ability to counter artifact hate (or other terrible threats) should more than compensate. It's also one mana cheaper. A hard counter for 1U is pretty good in a three colour but largely colourless deck.
Good point on the card draw. I am still tinkering; but i appreciate the suggestions all!!
Also stuff like Etherium-Horn Sorcerer, Sensei's Divining Top, Mirrorworks. These are all good cards, and they help you run smoothly and get more mileage out of the rest of your deck. But if you want to add cards, you have to cut something. I haven't finished my deck yet, so you are the one with experience. Do you run smoothly enough that you can afford to cut any f these (or straight card draw)? If you don't, you'll have to cut answers/sweepers/removal, mana ramp, protection, combo/Mishra-synergy, or threats. The latter two are more fun, so I'd cut something else if you think you can afford to.
In my experience Mirrworks breaks this deck. If its not immediatly answered you will normally win.
Horn Sorcerer didn't worked for me that great (though I have alot more Top Manipulation than Lord). I might cut him.
Sorcerer is a bit of a durdley card. If youve got the mana laying about, which i normally do, hes just one more thing to do on your turn to net more cards. That said, when you have him in hand and no gas, hes a dead draw. definitely something to consider cutting. My main reason for keeping him is his usefulness as a I havent been looking at cutting creatures as much self protecting chump blocker. My meta is loaded with Voltron and beat down strategies, and not so much combo - so i prefer to have blockers that can survive and get me some extra mileage.
Divining Top is great at any stage of the game, i think i will keep it.
Mirror works is always hit or miss. if youve got a hand and mana, its basically an I win card, because you go off to the races and they need twice the amount of removal. if you dont, its just a lightning rod for your opponents to waste removal on.
Sorry for the slow replies guys, i took a long vacation to Europe for the first time, so I was enjoying that for 2 weeks rather than spend time online
I have been looking for an unusual type of deck and this seems like one that I could have fun with. I've been trying to put together a list and I think I'm getting close.
I do have a question about how something like Nullstone Gargoyle works when Possibility Storm is on the table. I can see the value of the card, but I do want to make sure I understand it properly. It looks to me like it has essentially no effect when p-storm is active. A player plays any noncreature spell, e.g. Plague Wind (from their hand). That player can stack the triggers so that the trigger from Nullstone Gargoyle goes on the stack first, then the trigger from Possibility Storm goes on the stack. Possibility Storm resolves, finding another sorcery (in this case), which is then cast as the second spell of the turn, so it is not countered (at least not by Nullstone Gargoyle's effect). That second sorcery spell resolves and finally the Nullstone Gargoyle trigger is allowed to resolve and it fizzles.
Is this correct? Obviously Nullstone Gargoyle is a great card for making your artifacts uncounterable when you are trying to play an artifact with Mishra on the table, but am I correct that it has no practical effect when P Storm is also active?
Thanks.
Not entirely correct:
Firstly, to explain APNAP - APNAP stands for active player, then non-active player. When an effect lets more than one player do something at the same time, the active player will make and announce all decisions necessary for the action first, then the nonactive player(s) will do the same in turn order, and finally all of the actions will take place simultaneously.
Then, from the comprehensive rules:
Quote from MTG Comprehensive Rules »
603.3b If multiple abilities have triggered since the last time a player received priority, each player, in APNAP order, puts triggered abilities he or she controls on the stack in any order he or she chooses. (See rule 101.4.) Then the game once again checks for and resolves state-based actions until none are performed, then abilities that triggered during this process go on the stack. This process repeats until no new state-based actions are performed and no abilities trigger. Then the appropriate player gets priority.
Basically - with both Nullstone and Possibility Storm on the table, the following happens - First noncreature spell of the turn is played, triggering effects. If the active player has any triggers, those go onto the stack, then, if other players likewise control triggered effects they will place them onto the stack next - continuing around the table in order of APNAP. You control the order of the stack of your abilities! Meaning you can put possibility storm ontop of the spell, then Nullstone ontop of storm, etc.
...Now, unfortunately, due to the rules of how Possibility Storm works, this doesnt matter too much:
Quote from Gatherer Rules Notes »
4/15/2013 If Possibility Storm's ability doesn't exile the original spell (perhaps because another Possibility Storm already exiled it), you'll still exile cards from the top of your library until you exile a card that shares a card type with it and have the opportunity to cast that spell.
In this case, the order of the effects on the stack do not matter, Gargoyle's ability can resolve but the storm will still happen, or the storm will happen then the gargoyle will fizzle - but its important to stress that you control the order of your own triggers, not the active player.
The important thing is, which just doesn't get mentioned enough:
In either way - your first noncreature spell will be put in GY or Lib, Storm will put another card in play and Mishra's ability will get you the Card in GY or Lib, cause you played an Artifact, right?
That nets you 2 cards, whereas your opponent will have only 1. (Or zero, if he played a creature in Storm and resolves a noncreature Spell out of it - Rarething though, tribal stuff.)
Very True - once you add the Artificer to the board, this all becomes raw value for us!
its definitely playable, though i dont think i will run it in my deck. My main issue is that its 4 mana, tapping a creature for the ability, and entirely dependent on having a board state. without a solid board state, he is a dead draw (say, recovering from any one of many artifact board wipes). As stated by kealsera; i prefer Etherium-Horn Sorcerer, as he can single handedly recover a board state, and doesnt require other cards in play to produce value.
In: Hurkyl's Recall - self protection and board wipe with lattice makes this card versatile and a bomb Ice Cave - my meta needs to be taught a lesson. spammable countermagic
Out: Nullstone Gargoyle - never playable outside of welding, makes him less desirable as a whole Crosis's Charm - amazing versatility, but trying something new
The artifact lands nombo with another card in the deck (Possibility Storm).
In addition to Ice Cave, you could consider In the Eye of Chaos, though it would contrast with Nether Void (thankfully, you generally don't need both of them out at the same time, anyways). A cheaper suggestion that could also be good is Cephalid Shrine, given the uniformity of a lot of EDH metas. You could also try Counterbalance and/or Invoke Prejudice.
In:
Guardian Beast - Another Darksteel forge for my win cond, and a 4 drop one at that
Metalworker - mega ramp!
Scalding Tarn - Adding fetches package to smooth manabase
Bloodstained Mire - Adding fetches package to smooth manabase
Polluted Delta - Adding fetches package to smooth manabase
Reflecting Pool - more versatile land than the storage lands imo
Out:
Dimir Signet - Signets are solid, metalworkers are better
Silent-Blade Oni - 'good stuff' card that also synergizes with Mishra. That said, he is too pricey a CC to be useful in my build anymore
Evolving Wilds / Terramorphic Expanse - Bad fetches
Dreadship Reef / Molten Slagheap - Kept telling myself i'd use these as storage lands, and never end up doing so
The Dragons
Hellkite Charger: Unless you are playing Sword of feast and famine (which I have at multiple points) It is weak and just too mana intensive to be any use for us as it invloves a nonartifact creature which means it vulnerable to possibility storm.
Hellkite Igniter I want this card to work so much. I have tried it over 3 times over a period of 4 years now and it just is too slow. Sure its GG if it lands a hit but if you're dead at that point its not like that dragon can fix that. Its just too slow even in my deck where I think I ramp even more that your guys' lists.
Hellkite tyrant: too risk. I tried it and got a win out of it at one point but with multiple decks that use blue it turns to I lose all my artifacts to clones. However it was fun to steal a Phyrexian metamorph version from someone and all my artifacts back.
Steel Hellkite: The only Dragon I love anymore. Steel acts as my main form of enchantment/PW removal. I find he is easy to tutor up when needed and still hits like a truck.
Otherstuff:
Null Profusion: this card is a lot of fun if you can get an infinite mana combo set up but I prefer Sensei's divining top + rings of brighthearth to draw cards because at that point I win.
Metalworker: I actually dislike mr. Roboto in here. In my version atleadt I am colored mana starved and almost always have colorless around to use and abuse. Your list has more colorless to use which makes more sense to why it is in your list.
blood funnel: i personally hate this card. I loath it actually. I have a foil copy and tried it multiple times but It just always doesn't seem to work for me. I often need to cast something that isn't an artifact or creature and it often ruins my game plan instead of advancing them but then again I play a drop my deck on the field version of Mishra.
FETCHS
Okay enter my very weird viewpoints here. So with mishra each time we cast an artifact we get a shuffle trigger which is the main point of Fetches in my mind. Sure deck thinning can be useful but when we establish a P-storm synergy out deck thinning doesn't matter. I have found that when I replaced my fetches with basics, the deck ran better. Back to basics and ruination didn't hit as hard, My deck seemed to run a bit smoother in general. I personally find that the life loss is actually quite detrimental as I am normally a huge target when I play mishra but Then again my list and group vs others. Thus why I think Fetches aren't needed.
I apologize for any bad grammar in there as I am typing quickly while I wait to pick up my Father and brother from the airport.
Agree with you 100%. I want igniter to work as well, if for no other reason than i love the artwork. Steel Hellkite is a boss.
How successful has Top + Rings been for you? thats a really cool synergy. Do you tend to pair that with infinite mana? I think the only time a player should run null profusion is when they are comboing out - its a very weak card to discard effects, as it self locks you out of a game.
@Metalworker / Blood funnel - sounds like your reasoning for metalworker goes hand in hand with your experience with blood funnel. More colorless costs = more value out of funnel and worker. Less colorless cost = less value.
I have yet to experiment with my fetches. I am fortunate that as a long time legacy player, i have a great suite of fetches to draw from, so i happen to have them all on hand. I am currently working on getting some ravnica duals for the deck that will replace the vivid lands (and ultimately give the fetches more value).
Now I have a few questions about your list:
how has Crosis's Charm been working for you?
and No Cranial Plating?
Im curious why no cranial plating as it allows us to use commander damage as an alternative wincon.
Crosis's Charm is a love hate card for me. I hate to include it because i dont like the risk of possibility storm into it. That said, its highly effective spot removal and has gotten me out of really pinch situations. To date, my favorite plays have been destroying a assault suit attached to a loaned Zurgo, then whacking his owner upside the head with him; and once bouncing a prossh mid swing. Its just too darn versatile for me to cut.
@Cranial Plating - i have no good excuse. I need to get a copy and play with it. Same goes for bludgeon brawl. I think if i go that route, i will load up on equipment evasion, as my meta plays very fair edh, and mishra will need to sneak past defenses rather than plow through them in his artifact armor.
Don't get me wrong hatred is one of my favorite cards but I think is just awful in this deck as we try to abuse Possibility storm. With Mishra getting a voltron kill in my deck atleast its not hard. I often have 8-15 artifacts on the field on any turn 6+ so hitting someone for a surprise amount of damage is easy as cranial plating can be moved around for just
Just my two cents on it.
I think the main misconception here is that Ulka is asking why not include it, and the responses have treated it like a primary win cond - when I would treat it as a fall back option. Even without commander damage, it can really enable any puny creature in our deck to become a beater threat.
Sorry this past few weeks have been quite busy so I haven;t had time to post as much as I want to. Im just going to say we have an apples oranges view on this and we leave it at that. I find it is a great card as it puts damage in no matter the blockers. It probably is my meta but I never need a wipe but rather need to stop board wipes but that's due to our hand selection rules where you draw 10 cards to start then shuffle 3 back into the deck. So I find I have plenty of artifacts by turn 6. But then again I play a different type of Mishra than most where I just try to drop my deck onto the field.
Im not saying its my main wincon or second wincon its a tertiary wincon like rewind had said. and Yes When you talked about hatred is why I talked about liek it is a primary as in some situations it is my primary wincon based on how the game plays out.
And I guess I should explain my mentality of mishra- I dont play him for stax value I play him for the stupid interaction between p-storm. I have enough stax decks already when I built this and meh again apples and oranges.
Bane of Progress is pretty uncool. I thought Guardian Beast was gonna cover me through it, until he responded a step further by beast within-ing my beast. Sadface.
If my meta keeps up with the global artifact wipes, i might have to start loading up on counter magic / reintroduce ice caves. Either that or i may have to play some other decks for a short period to dissuade them from loading up on mishra hate.
I am pretty opposed to tutors. In my opinion, in the heirarchy of hardcore try hard builds Tutors are the #1 most flagrant cards. I try not to overload on those, because then i will just tutor for my win every game, which i dont fine interactive or fun. Because i dont use tutors, torpor orb is great (already run it); but then i have to have it in play before hand.
As a big fish in my play group, if i play lattice, my group will go to any lengths to bring me down. Even at the cost of their current boardstate. Lattice normally means that im going to sen triplets away their stuff, or karn blast their lands, or nuke the game with niv disk.
Thanks for the input dude! I will tinker with long term plans. I like that card a lot, used to run it in azami as a win cond fetch.
Man that would be cool to respond with. Like, dayum i'd feel like a hoss. That said, as you said, its a heck of a set up. Let me clarify something on Long-Term: I do not consider it a true tutor, and would consider running it. Its less mana efficient than vampiric or demonic tutor, doesn't replace itself in my hand, and is disruptable by my opponents in many ways (force me to draw then discard, mill, exile top of library, etc.) I think its a completely legitimate card to use, and will consider it strongly. Especially since i have a bunch laying about; anything i already own is something i'll consider running for a game or two.
I have yet to have a great experience with Knowledge pool. I have heard many mishra players (there are literally dozens of us...DOZENS!!) use it to success, and others arent so big on the card.
Only amazing with welder really, and that poor little guy has earned notoriety in my playgroup. Without welder its not BAD, since i run tons of recursion, but at that point it's round about. I like the effect, i need to find a permanent that can do what it does, even if its slower. I will definitely consider it.
Wouldnt fly in my playgroup. Wishes are strictly taboo, we dont play with SBs, and people would be very sore if i dropped that in response.
All in all, i think the solution is run some sort of pseudo tutor, like Long-Term or Entomb for answers. Currently looking for a card in our colors that can create a repeatable entomb; that could be fun and disruptable (if they can see it in my grave, that gives them plenty of time and plenty of options to hate against it).
Edit
Current front runner for the slot: Intuition - Why choose between long term, a tutor, or entomb, when i can do all of them!
Just play both, these cards are super strong in multiplayer matches.
WUBRG#BlackLotusMatterWUBRG
👮👮👮 #BlueLivesMatter 👮👮👮
Heres hoping that MM2015 lowers the price of mox opal
Im thinking Crosis's Charm could be a decent cut for it. Yes the charm provides a lot of utility but I think it is lacking for the cost of it.
Presumably all you cards further your goal to some extent. IMO you should cut a "good stuff" card which is helpful but not necessary and has minimal or no synergy with your artifact theme.
Etched Championn (without Cranial Plating) is ...a chump blocker for non-trampling non-flyers? Beyond that, it looks like you devote a lot of slots mostly to generate card advantage - I think you could spare a little. Consider that Ice Cave also generates card advantage by countering more of your opponents' spells than your own - at the same time straining your opponents' available mana as they use it against each other!
https://fieldmarshalshandbook.wordpress.com/
RUGLegacy Lands.dec
RUGBLegacy Lands.dec
RGLegacy Lands.dec
WUBRG EDH Lands.dec
UBR EDH Artificer Prodigy
B EDH Relentless Rats
Good point on the card draw. I am still tinkering; but i appreciate the suggestions all!!
Cutting Thirst For Knowledge in favour of Arcane Denial seems solid. Both can net you three cards. Denial doesn't stoke your graveyard, but the extra defensive ability to counter artifact hate (or other terrible threats) should more than compensate. It's also one mana cheaper. A hard counter for 1U is pretty good in a three colour but largely colourless deck.
Also stuff like Etherium-Horn Sorcerer, Sensei's Divining Top, Mirrorworks. These are all good cards, and they help you run smoothly and get more mileage out of the rest of your deck. But if you want to add cards, you have to cut something. I haven't finished my deck yet, so you are the one with experience. Do you run smoothly enough that you can afford to cut any f these (or straight card draw)? If you don't, you'll have to cut answers/sweepers/removal, mana ramp, protection, combo/Mishra-synergy, or threats. The latter two are more fun, so I'd cut something else if you think you can afford to.
https://fieldmarshalshandbook.wordpress.com/
RUGLegacy Lands.dec
RUGBLegacy Lands.dec
RGLegacy Lands.dec
WUBRG EDH Lands.dec
UBR EDH Artificer Prodigy
B EDH Relentless Rats
Sorcerer is a bit of a durdley card. If youve got the mana laying about, which i normally do, hes just one more thing to do on your turn to net more cards. That said, when you have him in hand and no gas, hes a dead draw. definitely something to consider cutting. My main reason for keeping him is his usefulness as a I havent been looking at cutting creatures as much self protecting chump blocker. My meta is loaded with Voltron and beat down strategies, and not so much combo - so i prefer to have blockers that can survive and get me some extra mileage.
Divining Top is great at any stage of the game, i think i will keep it.
Mirror works is always hit or miss. if youve got a hand and mana, its basically an I win card, because you go off to the races and they need twice the amount of removal. if you dont, its just a lightning rod for your opponents to waste removal on.
Sorry for the slow replies guys, i took a long vacation to Europe for the first time, so I was enjoying that for 2 weeks rather than spend time online
Not entirely correct:
Firstly, to explain APNAP - APNAP stands for active player, then non-active player. When an effect lets more than one player do something at the same time, the active player will make and announce all decisions necessary for the action first, then the nonactive player(s) will do the same in turn order, and finally all of the actions will take place simultaneously.
Then, from the comprehensive rules:
Basically - with both Nullstone and Possibility Storm on the table, the following happens - First noncreature spell of the turn is played, triggering effects. If the active player has any triggers, those go onto the stack, then, if other players likewise control triggered effects they will place them onto the stack next - continuing around the table in order of APNAP. You control the order of the stack of your abilities! Meaning you can put possibility storm ontop of the spell, then Nullstone ontop of storm, etc.
...Now, unfortunately, due to the rules of how Possibility Storm works, this doesnt matter too much:
In this case, the order of the effects on the stack do not matter, Gargoyle's ability can resolve but the storm will still happen, or the storm will happen then the gargoyle will fizzle - but its important to stress that you control the order of your own triggers, not the active player.
edit - words
Very True - once you add the Artificer to the board, this all becomes raw value for us!
https://fieldmarshalshandbook.wordpress.com/
RUGLegacy Lands.dec
RUGBLegacy Lands.dec
RGLegacy Lands.dec
WUBRG EDH Lands.dec
UBR EDH Artificer Prodigy
B EDH Relentless Rats
its definitely playable, though i dont think i will run it in my deck. My main issue is that its 4 mana, tapping a creature for the ability, and entirely dependent on having a board state. without a solid board state, he is a dead draw (say, recovering from any one of many artifact board wipes). As stated by kealsera; i prefer Etherium-Horn Sorcerer, as he can single handedly recover a board state, and doesnt require other cards in play to produce value.
In:
Hurkyl's Recall - self protection and board wipe with lattice makes this card versatile and a bomb
Ice Cave - my meta needs to be taught a lesson. spammable countermagic
Out:
Nullstone Gargoyle - never playable outside of welding, makes him less desirable as a whole
Crosis's Charm - amazing versatility, but trying something new
1 Grixis Panorama
1 Lonely Sandbar
1 Seat of the Synod
1 Temple of the False God
1 Vault of Whispers
1 Vivid Crag
1 Vivid Creek
1 Vivid Marsh
The artifact lands nombo with another card in the deck (Possibility Storm).
In addition to Ice Cave, you could consider In the Eye of Chaos, though it would contrast with Nether Void (thankfully, you generally don't need both of them out at the same time, anyways). A cheaper suggestion that could also be good is Cephalid Shrine, given the uniformity of a lot of EDH metas. You could also try Counterbalance and/or Invoke Prejudice.