Congrats on that Nether Void. Still looking for one to augment my Mishra deck.
Also, have you ever tested Cruel Ultimatum in your deck? It serves as a decent way to close out games in my pile, but I also run it from a different angle.
Congratulations on your Nether Void! I'm finally finishing out this deck, so let us know if the Void is too Staxx for your playgroup. I don't want to play my first game with Mishra and get too hated on.
I just discovered crystal chimes. It seems really solid for keeping our chaos engines and soft locks on the table.
Oh that is nice! My group doesnt run a lot of enchantment removal (so ripe for abuse); but im going to add that to the card discussion section of the OP. great find.
Congrats on that Nether Void. Still looking for one to augment my Mishra deck.
Also, have you ever tested Cruel Ultimatum in your deck? It serves as a decent way to close out games in my pile, but I also run it from a different angle.
Thanks man! So i have a cruel ultimatum lying about; and i used to run it in an old crosis build, but i never found much use for it after that. The effect is glorious, but the mana cost is incredibly exclusive, and unfortunately, its only 1 opponent. The effect is glorious, but at that mana cost (most notably, i cant use my colorless ramp to get it out sooner) doesnt justify drawing 3 cards and a creature back to my hand (the life is sorta meaningless to me) and messing up 1 opponent...i see it as more bad political juju than anything. people at my table will start to ignore the guy who got wrecked and see him as not a threat, where as i wouldve just gained a bunch of random things (but not enough of any one thing to justify the cost) and they would treat me like a high priority threaet.
So I have been looking at making a new commander for a long time, and you've inspired me to finally use my Mishra. My eyes have been opened to his potential and I want to see what I can do with him. Would you mind, if once I have it built, if I post my deck list here and get your opinion on it?
Also, Kudos on getting that Nether Void! I know I'll not be able to afford one for ages and it is definitely a game changer!
I love seeing Mishra decks floating around, and yours seems pretty awesome. Quick question, have you considered Cavern of Souls? If nothing else it lets you get your Mishra, Welder, Feldon, and Arcum out without dealing with Planar Chaos or Nethervoid once they're online if you name Artificer. In addition, have you considered Arcane Denial? It makes for a wonderful card to counter your own spells with once Mishra is online.
So I have been looking at making a new commander for a long time, and you've inspired me to finally use my Mishra. My eyes have been opened to his potential and I want to see what I can do with him. Would you mind, if once I have it built, if I post my deck list here and get your opinion on it?
Also, Kudos on getting that Nether Void! I know I'll not be able to afford one for ages and it is definitely a game changer!
Please feel free to make any posts or put any deck lists in this thread you like. I would be happy to give you my opinion on it; and lots of smart commenters have been looking at this thread, so if my advice isnt helpful, im sure someone else can chip in and help out as well!
Thanks mate! Getting Nether Void was a long time coming, and thank god i have an understanding wife, hahah!
I love seeing Mishra decks floating around, and yours seems pretty awesome. Quick question, have you considered Cavern of Souls? If nothing else it lets you get your Mishra, Welder, Feldon, and Arcum out without dealing with Planar Chaos or Nethervoid once they're online if you name Artificer. In addition, have you considered Arcane Denial? It makes for a wonderful card to counter your own spells with once Mishra is online.
Cavern of souls is a card i am currently experimenting with actually! Crimhead mentionhed it on page 2 of the thread for the exact same use as you mentioned - safe artificers with and if nothing else color fixing. I like it so far, but am still tinkering.
I actually mentioned Arcane Denial, and while i think its a fantastic card, i have been avoiding it. I made this deck specifically to avoid playing counter spells, as both of my other decks run very strong counterspell suites, and i would be tempted to use it against my opponents in a pinch. Below is my original response. All in all, i think it'd be a great card for any mishra list, and i will probably add it in someday, but for now, leaving it out of my specific build.
not a bad suggestion; though i'd be tempted to use it, since its one of the best splash color hard counters in the game. I would sooner run recurring insight as a draw card, since the cost isnt 1U, but 1U+artifact cost
Anti aggro (creature heavy) variant is doing great. One big misplay and lesson learned from this weekend: dont play both blightsteel and forge at the same time. Merciless Eviction is merciless. Ended up losing that game hard, and that was the misplay that led to it.
Love this guy, my first attempt to make it an "Affinity" deck didn't really work out. Now I'm working on a more budget version focused on more stax elements and build it around a Salvaging Station tool box. Any more budget suggestions you guys have?
Also effects like Brainstorm are really strong with Mishra since you can shuffle away the cards you didnt want. What other cards are similar to brainstorm that can be abused?
Love this guy, my first attempt to make it an "Affinity" deck didn't really work out. Now I'm working on a more budget version focused on more stax elements and build it around a Salvaging Station tool box. Any more budget suggestions you guys have?
Also effects like Brainstorm are really strong with Mishra since you can shuffle away the cards you didnt want. What other cards are similar to brainstorm that can be abused?
unfortunately, even though we can use mishra as a free shuffle engine, there arent a LOT of cards that can be abused this way. The first great options that come to mind are:
Diabolic Vision - 5 deep scan Jace, the Mind Sculptor - Brainstorm on a stick...plus you know, a few other little things... Scroll Rack - Oh mama can you shuffle away some junk with this baby and Mishra! Sensei's Divining Top - Dont like what you see? Put sensei's ontop, then play it to shuffle away the rest.
Currently Saving some funds to pick up a guardian beast and metalworker in april. Metal worker to really spike my early game; guardian beast to give me another blocker who has a god tier ability for this build
Cause I am working on my Mishra for months, and just can't get the last 30 Cards cutted:
Why aren't you running Filterlands?
Don't like them personally. Poor options in openers imo. I run a few in my merieke build, and i find them normally lacking compared to more versatile lands. If i were going to upgrade for that $, i'd pick up all the fetches for the colors i play and move from there. I mainly dont like that they go dormant when i dont have another mana source open.
Maybe it's just me, because I am going for Magus of the Future/Soothsaying/Teferi/Future Sight that I want to include em.
So these cards are hit or miss for me. They give you a card your opponents have few options to get rid of, but they also give away information. Me personally for this build? Cut magus of future/future sight. Soothsaying can be damn useful when digging for your finisher and youve got spare late game mana.
Ah btw: I'd ran Lim-Dûl's Vault above Diabolic Vision every day.
haha, good call. I dont think mishra should be used as a shuffle engine, but he can be, and thats a good one; though idk why you'd dig for stuff only to shuffle it away.
What are your thoughts on Blinkmoth Urn?
Joins the battle approx T4 and will add about 4c T5 and grows into the late.
Needs to survive a turn though, that's why it's on my cut list.
Definitely a solid effect. My only problem with it is its cost. At the 5cc there is a LOT of competition for a mana producer slot. There arent many spells that will produce much better so if youve got a copy laying about, i'd test it out. That said, i think i'd prefer something like a gilded lotus - which is immediately useful on cast, and can help cast my colored spells too.
Turnabout
Can be used both, defensive and offensive and is a political card as well, cause you can get Blocker online of a different player easily. Most of the time will just sit on my hand thoug - I think.
Ring of Three Wishes
Expensive, but we have big mana. With Unwinding Clock in play, we should be able to tutor for three cards in a whole turn cycle. Can be welded and rewelded for more tutors.
I LOVE turnabout. I ran this to great success in many edh decks (most notably azami, lady of scrolls and dralnu, lich lord), but ive never put it in Mishra. Could be an interesting add in thanks to its versatility. If i were running a stax variant or even a storm combo mishra, i'd definitely run it; as its a free spell and synergizes so well with winter orb effects. I will have to test the card out sometime.
Ring is REALLY pricey for tutor effects. I try to keep them at a minimum in my playgroup in order to not get too aggressive a build, but if i were going to add tutors, there are simply so many amazing options that you can abuse with mishra. Black has tons of godly tutor options, and even blue has some unique ones that can be abused. I think that Ring of Three Wishes is worth a playtest, but its activation cost is incredibly steep, and that would make me hesitant to include it - BUT if you could stick it, welder, and unwinding clock - oh boy you are living the dream.
I really like where your head is at, i am going to playtest Turnabout and if i can get my hands on a copy of Ring of Three Wishes from some buddies, that one may be fun too. If you have a link to your list, i would be happy to offer suggestion on potential cuts, if you'd like.
Etherium Sculptor/Senseis/Magus is essentially 0: Draw your Deck with the ability to use any shuffleeffect to get rid of lands or cards I don't like - that's why I am running Soothsaying/Fetchlands [...]
A sidenote:
I do not run Bribery and their like, due to the fact, that I wont be able to get a Blightsteel or similar in powerlvl due to my meta. A Gilded Lotus or Sol Ring would be the best Artifact I could gather.
Gotcha - i didnt realize you were running an infinite draw loop. that makes a lot more sense. if that is your objective, perhaps cloudkey and helm of awakening could enable you further?
Let me lead with this - nothing in your list of cards is bad. they are all great options, and i think there is argument to keep EVERYTHING. all the more reason to rotate what is in your build and what isnt.
By my count, you need to cut 32 cards to get down to legal size. Since you are at 38 lands im not going to even look at those; ill leave your landbase to your judgement and playtest experience. I am going to list what i'd cut, and then from there, i recommend you experiment. If you play a game and a card doesnt perform, cut it for something else, and keep tweaking it until the decklist hits what you want.
What i'd cut (and a brief why). Note that a lot of my choices are based on my own meta and what little youve mentioned of yours
Memnarch - good, but unnecessary for your build. as you stated, your meta doesnt have good things to steal.
Teferi (creature) - purely a hate generator as he slows opponents cast.
Gamble - less tutors = more fun
demonic tutor - less tutors = more fun
vamp tutor - less tutors = more fun
fabricate - less tutors = more fun
reshape - less tutors = more fun
recurring insight OR c. sphinx - same slot, no need for both.
wheel of fortune - i'd rather draw cards without reloading my opponents if i can, and we've got blue
memory jar - same as wheel
counterbalance - countertop isnt as good in edh, not worth
teferi (planeswalker) - too expensive for too little benefit within the 99
staff of dom - good with infinite mana, unnecessary in this deck. trading post is better for our needs
knowledge pool - cuz i dont like this card
vedalken orrery - good card, but easy to cut early. most of the time its not really necessary.
everflowing chal - overpriced mana rock for the value it gives later, and if an opponent removes it, they time walked you
krark-clan ironworks - great for turning spare stuff into mana, but another easy cut since there are better mana producers'
lim-duls vault - good dig spell, but i minimize tutors and their close relatives.
tormods crpyt - do you have a lot of grave abuse in your meta?
swiftfoot boots OR greaves - i dont tend to run both
nim deathmantle - in and out of my deck, great card, but sometimes really underperforms.
i have no idea how many that is, but thats a good first wave of cuts...again, all of the above cards are great, and very useable in mishra. if i were you i'd just make an aggressive cut, and then start play testing to see what you want to keep, and what you want to replace.
Some notes why I don't like to cut some cards you mentioned:
Teferi: Finisher with Storm or Pool (I play, you don't)
Tutors: I only run 3 Finisher (Blightsteel,Teferi+Storm/Pool) and I'd like to find them when I need them. Even further though, I only got 3 Massremoval and one Spotremoval. I would need to include much more which would increase my cards to cut count in the end
Counterbalance: Since I want to abuse Mishra to manipulate my Top, I wanted to try it. You are right though - I will start with it and it'll be right in the - maybe cut after some games pile
Pool: Softlock with Storm (I Play 2, you play 1 - Lesser experienced will just play bad things cause they do not want me to cast those things - Profit) and see Teferi
Every nonmentioned cards will be cutted - Thanks !
Sounds to me like you are going for a very lock down oriented build. Perhaps you could make a stax-ish variant and really clinch your opponents. I know you are struggling to cut cards, so i wont make a lot of suggestions, but something to consider. I think that in the OP, I link and make a reference to the Stax primer, I would look into it for some nifty lock down ideas.
Please post your final 100 when you are ready to start playing! i am very interested to see how your build grows.
So, since the parts for my Mishra build came in, I figured I'd post the trial version of my Mishra EDH. Keep in mind that I designed the deck as a fun deck, and to be able to operate separate of Mishra is needed. Some cards I added for personal flavor as well...
The deck like I said is meant to work with or without the mad genius that is Mishra. There are a lot of flavor cards, as well as cards that are used to offset the kinds of Commanders I am used to facing. The two places I play at usually have a lot of red, blue, and/or black decks. White and blue do crop up, but not as frequently as others. I often fight another Grixis deck, a Thassa deck, a GrimGrin deck, a Brago deck, and a Narset deck.
Feel free to ask or comment on anything. I'll explain why I run the card or be inspired possibly to run something better. I should also point out that I do intend on getting Blightsteel for this deck, as well as Kozilek and Ulamog. Why the Titans? WHY NOT THE TITANS?! Just something out of left field to abuse the colorless mana. Chances are I won't use the Titans, but I am trying to find bigger/better beatsticks besides Soul, Hellkite, and Blightsteel.
Have you considered running Dark Depths+Thespian's Stage? You already run Hex Parasite which works well with the two, Thespians Stage can copy any of your other useful lands, and it would give you another win condition (and help you with the missing beat stick problem :))
All in all, your list looks very solid. Something that I think would benefit you would be to remove the Karoo lands. They do not really provide any speed to your ramp up, enter play tapped (without Amulet of Vigor in your build, i dont see value to playing them), and simply give your opponents a single target to take out 2 mana. Me personally, i would drop them and pick up 3x more basics - this will help your resiliency to non-basic hate, and make your lands less problematic as removal targets.
Rings of brighthearth is a great card - but do you think you run enough activated abilities that benefit from being copied to justify the slot in your deck?
At 3cc i dont like Obelisk of Grixis. Yes it produces our colors, but its fairly unwhelming beyond that. I would sooner run Coalition Relic at that spot for the trick 2 mana play to give yourself a boost when you need it, with unwinding clock in play it can really spike your mana for a turn, and it does everything obelisk already does. Another option would be looking at worn powerstone or thran dynamo as alternative mana rocks.
Last question - Nevinyrral's Disk is my win condition. You already have all the other necessary parts (mycosynth lattice, darksteel forge, optional vandalblast alternative). Any reason you don't include Larry's Disk?
I hadn't considered running those lands! I'll have to save up for Dark Depths. I may take out the Karoo lands and replace them with those. Or I could shuffle things around and take advantage of the Amulet and have it help the Karoo lands and Geth.
The obelisk is in there as a mana rock for now. It's one of the cards I intend to take out in the future. I'm not fond of the Coalition Relic, and am trying to get my hands on a Thran Dynamo.
As for the board wiping disk of hate...Well I am picking up that and an Oblivion Stone today during EDH night at my shop
hahaha, i enjoy that name way too much. I think those are all really great cards to pick up. If you go with Necropotence in this build, i'd strongly recommend grabbing urborg, tomb of yawgmoth to help you land BBB. Three of a certain color is hard to hit, even with all the dual lands you are packing, and every little of mana fixing helps.
so I got the All is Dust, Minamo, Torpor Orb, Oblivion Stone, and Necropotence tonight, and had several play tests in 4-5 player groups.
Necropotence was removed, it's always dead to me, and I don't feel like finding another Urborg (I also play Marchesa and Rafiq). I did however do something fun today with the Karoo lands. I found a fun way to play Bojuka Bog, bounce it for a Karoo, then rinse and repeat.
My build also severely lacks offense. I have 9-12 mana by turn 5, but nothing to do with it. For the future of my own build, I think some Tutors and beatsticks are needed. All that mana, and also no real way to draw. Once I ran out of a hand, I was basically done and unable to recover. I also needed some counters, rarely, but sometimes really needed them.
so I got the All is Dust, Minamo, Torpor Orb, Oblivion Stone, and Necropotence tonight, and had several play tests in 4-5 player groups.
Necropotence was removed, it's always dead to me, and I don't feel like finding another Urborg (I also play Marchesa and Rafiq). I did however do something fun today with the Karoo lands. I found a fun way to play Bojuka Bog, bounce it for a Karoo, then rinse and repeat.
My build also severely lacks offense. I have 9-12 mana by turn 5, but nothing to do with it. For the future of my own build, I think some Tutors and beatsticks are needed. All that mana, and also no real way to draw. Once I ran out of a hand, I was basically done and unable to recover. I also needed some counters, rarely, but sometimes really needed them.
How did you solve some of these issues?
@Offense - my build is very defensive oriented. i try to play effects that minimize what can attack me, and play resilient or self replacing creatures. i used to run slobad, goblin tinkerer to aid in this effort as well.
@Card Advantage - i primarily use blue for card draw in my build as opposed to cards like Necropotence. In addition to this, try to remember that causing your opponents to lose cards is just as good as you drawing them. Effects like possibility storm with Mishra in play really enable us to gain false card advantage since we get what we want plus extra cards, where as our opponents lose control.
@Countermagic - It pains me not to run a good counter suite, and so to counteract this (no pun intended), i try to play more and more threats quickly. The main cards that have tended to cause me problems are Waves of Vitriol, Bane of Progress, and Merciless Eviction. I choose not to run counter magic because in my meta i am already the big bad guy, and both my Merieke and Damia builds run heavy counter magic suites. I accept this as a weakness and try to play through it.
@Tutors - I choose not to play them because in my eyes, they make a deck 'solved'. My damia build is my competative deck, and when i land a tutor, it turns into rune scarred demon who fetches dead eye navigator which lets me search for palinchron which lets me generate infinite mana into i win. If i could tutor, i'd fetch arcum, and start the abuse from there. This is totally up to you. If your meta is more competitive, i would recommend them.
recently bought Mishra in Foil at my LGS and instantly spent my bucks on an alter for him - wanted to share the results here in your primer
Credits to Stefanie Blum !
Beautiful alter man, congrats. I am working on altering my own deck now, but its a slow process of practicing a lot before i commit to paining on cards.
Btw.: I do not want to go the full Stax Route, 'cause I already have a Nath "I'll Nath you out" as well as a Grand Arbiter Augustin IV "I hit, you don't" in planning and a finished Nahiri "It's 1vs1 time". Mishra is my take to go onto a little less Stax - and Teferis purpose is actually just make them scoop.
Ah, that makes sense. I didnt realize you already had a stax build, sounded like you were leaning that way, hence my recommendations.
Relying on Vandalblasts/Disk combo or Blightsteel just seems a little low to me - I really can't imagine how you win your games constantly.
As i say early in the primer, playing Mishra isnt about winning game constantly. He isnt my play-to-crush-my-opponents commander - he is my, i've-put-effort-into-building-this-guy commmander. If i wanted to be more competitive, i'd be loaded up on tutors and countermagic to protect my combo, and drop it earlier and more consistently. My current Mishra build is designed to be 75%. My current meta is full of growing and learning players, and while there are a few true terrors in my circle (a gnarly prossh deck, an athreos-stax deck, and a few others), when i want to win i switch to a competitive commander. I would say my win rate with mishra is under 50%, above 30%.
You may be asking - why build a commander, why put the effort into writing a primer, if you arent going to play a list that makes him as strong as possible. My reasoning is because i dont like tutors - i think they make a deck repetitive and bland. I call decks like that 'solved,' as there is always a best path to take, and that means if i dont play that path, im intentionally not playing smart. I want to build decks that give me unique experiences each game, and while i may try to control my opponents, i dont believe in completely locking my friends out of playing in a kitchen table format. This is just MY philosophy, and I am currently working on additional Mishra builds in the main thread to cover much more competitive builds than my current 75% build (if i go to more events with mishra, i'll go spike and make him a terror, but for now, i play him kitchen table).
If it helps for an added idea, I'm adding Hellkite Tyrant to my deck and thinking of adding a way to flash him in, Such as Vedalkin Ornery. Let's be honest, if someone see I have that and close to the number of artifacts, I become an instant target before it gets back to my turn.
Right now, in my tuned down version (I am still getting beat sticks) I rely on Soul of New Phyrexia and Steel Hellkite to bring the power. Otherwise, I have mana for days and not much to spend it on. Playing Mishra a few times with my build and seeing the others, I think Blightsteel, Ulamog, and Kozilek are prime choices for the deck in terms of offensive cards. The way my groups play, combos are a rare and special occurrence, so beating in faces or locking people down is the most common route.
For what its worth, i have won games purely on the back of steel hellkite - the thing is an absolute monster at dismantling people's boards, and with welding effects, very easy to get into play at just the right time. I would run him over hellkite igniter personally. i am not much of a fan of hellkite charger without ~infinite mana~ set up in some way (swords anyone?).
At the idea of hellkite tyrant - i think he could be interesting if you can sneak him into play; but i tend to avoid moves that declare me winner. In my meta, when someone wins off of something like that, the group tends to play for 2nd place while you get to sit and watch. Also, in line with what Kealsera mentioned, with clone/theft/etc effects, hes a massive risk; even if an opponent doesnt get the auto win off of him, he deals a destructive blow to our board.
I would continue to run the Praetor's grasp and Brainstorm. The grasp allows you not only to grab an artifact, but it allows you to see your opponents entire deck. In some matches, that could be a big turn around. Brainstorm also allows you to slightly modify your hand, and is a cheaper one time use of Sensei's Top.
As for your lands, for the life gain have you considered Miren, the moaning well? I'm using it for my Marchesa deck and it is great, especially if you intend to sac things like you mentioned with High Market.
@ Kealsera and LordRewind
The group I play with has done a few instant win games, and infinite loops. Some times we end up with 3+ hour games where we just want it to end, and in those instances, Hellkite Tyrant would be awesome to have. I am considering using Charger if I can get a few more attackers. Definitely saving up for the Eldrazi Titans. Given the amount of mana I can produce, getting them out by turn 6-7 is a breeze.
This card is game over vs any form of discard. My group has a healthy stax / attrition level to it, so i personally wouldnt ever run null profusion unless i was running a storm variant of Mishra. Discarding 2 cards is easily accomplished by opponents, then you are dead in the water unless you have another way to start your card draw again. Too much of a risk for me to like it, especially at 6 mana - recurring insight will score me at least 8 cards for 6 mana, which i much prefer.
@Hellkite Tyrant
I think hes a fine card, and as i said, if you can sneak him into play for the windmill slam win, go for it! i'd be too scared to run it for fear of someone using a red theft+haste effect or a blue clone effect or a black reanimate from my grave effect...1 hit from him is pretty damning to our boardstate.
Also, have you ever tested Cruel Ultimatum in your deck? It serves as a decent way to close out games in my pile, but I also run it from a different angle.
Mogis, God of Slaughter
Daxos of Meletis
Oh that is nice! My group doesnt run a lot of enchantment removal (so ripe for abuse); but im going to add that to the card discussion section of the OP. great find.
Thanks man! So i have a cruel ultimatum lying about; and i used to run it in an old crosis build, but i never found much use for it after that. The effect is glorious, but the mana cost is incredibly exclusive, and unfortunately, its only 1 opponent. The effect is glorious, but at that mana cost (most notably, i cant use my colorless ramp to get it out sooner) doesnt justify drawing 3 cards and a creature back to my hand (the life is sorta meaningless to me) and messing up 1 opponent...i see it as more bad political juju than anything. people at my table will start to ignore the guy who got wrecked and see him as not a threat, where as i wouldve just gained a bunch of random things (but not enough of any one thing to justify the cost) and they would treat me like a high priority threaet.
Primer - Mishra, Artificer Prodigy
Thor, Ragnar Röks!
Hela, and the Enemies of Asgard
Teferi, Temporal Archmage
Also, Kudos on getting that Nether Void! I know I'll not be able to afford one for ages and it is definitely a game changer!
-Modern-
WMartyrProcB
BBurnR
-Commander-
Thanks mate! Getting Nether Void was a long time coming, and thank god i have an understanding wife, hahah!
Cavern of souls is a card i am currently experimenting with actually! Crimhead mentionhed it on page 2 of the thread for the exact same use as you mentioned - safe artificers with and if nothing else color fixing. I like it so far, but am still tinkering.
I actually mentioned Arcane Denial, and while i think its a fantastic card, i have been avoiding it. I made this deck specifically to avoid playing counter spells, as both of my other decks run very strong counterspell suites, and i would be tempted to use it against my opponents in a pinch. Below is my original response. All in all, i think it'd be a great card for any mishra list, and i will probably add it in someday, but for now, leaving it out of my specific build.
Primer - Mishra, Artificer Prodigy
Thor, Ragnar Röks!
Hela, and the Enemies of Asgard
Teferi, Temporal Archmage
Primer - Mishra, Artificer Prodigy
Thor, Ragnar Röks!
Hela, and the Enemies of Asgard
Teferi, Temporal Archmage
Also effects like Brainstorm are really strong with Mishra since you can shuffle away the cards you didnt want. What other cards are similar to brainstorm that can be abused?
unfortunately, even though we can use mishra as a free shuffle engine, there arent a LOT of cards that can be abused this way. The first great options that come to mind are:
Diabolic Vision - 5 deep scan
Jace, the Mind Sculptor - Brainstorm on a stick...plus you know, a few other little things...
Scroll Rack - Oh mama can you shuffle away some junk with this baby and Mishra!
Sensei's Divining Top - Dont like what you see? Put sensei's ontop, then play it to shuffle away the rest.
Primer - Mishra, Artificer Prodigy
Thor, Ragnar Röks!
Hela, and the Enemies of Asgard
Teferi, Temporal Archmage
Primer - Mishra, Artificer Prodigy
Thor, Ragnar Röks!
Hela, and the Enemies of Asgard
Teferi, Temporal Archmage
Don't like them personally. Poor options in openers imo. I run a few in my merieke build, and i find them normally lacking compared to more versatile lands. If i were going to upgrade for that $, i'd pick up all the fetches for the colors i play and move from there. I mainly dont like that they go dormant when i dont have another mana source open.
So these cards are hit or miss for me. They give you a card your opponents have few options to get rid of, but they also give away information. Me personally for this build? Cut magus of future/future sight. Soothsaying can be damn useful when digging for your finisher and youve got spare late game mana.
haha, good call. I dont think mishra should be used as a shuffle engine, but he can be, and thats a good one; though idk why you'd dig for stuff only to shuffle it away.
Definitely a solid effect. My only problem with it is its cost. At the 5cc there is a LOT of competition for a mana producer slot. There arent many spells that will produce much better so if youve got a copy laying about, i'd test it out. That said, i think i'd prefer something like a gilded lotus - which is immediately useful on cast, and can help cast my colored spells too.
I LOVE turnabout. I ran this to great success in many edh decks (most notably azami, lady of scrolls and dralnu, lich lord), but ive never put it in Mishra. Could be an interesting add in thanks to its versatility. If i were running a stax variant or even a storm combo mishra, i'd definitely run it; as its a free spell and synergizes so well with winter orb effects. I will have to test the card out sometime.
Ring is REALLY pricey for tutor effects. I try to keep them at a minimum in my playgroup in order to not get too aggressive a build, but if i were going to add tutors, there are simply so many amazing options that you can abuse with mishra. Black has tons of godly tutor options, and even blue has some unique ones that can be abused. I think that Ring of Three Wishes is worth a playtest, but its activation cost is incredibly steep, and that would make me hesitant to include it - BUT if you could stick it, welder, and unwinding clock - oh boy you are living the dream.
I really like where your head is at, i am going to playtest Turnabout and if i can get my hands on a copy of Ring of Three Wishes from some buddies, that one may be fun too. If you have a link to your list, i would be happy to offer suggestion on potential cuts, if you'd like.
Primer - Mishra, Artificer Prodigy
Thor, Ragnar Röks!
Hela, and the Enemies of Asgard
Teferi, Temporal Archmage
Let me lead with this - nothing in your list of cards is bad. they are all great options, and i think there is argument to keep EVERYTHING. all the more reason to rotate what is in your build and what isnt.
Your Deck for others to review:
1 Arcum Dagsson
1 Blightsteel Colossus
1 Burnished Hart
1 Chief Engineer
1 Consecrated Sphinx
1 Duplicant
1 Etherium Sculptor
1 Etherium-Horn Sorcerer
1 Feldon of the Third Path
1 Goblin Welder
1 Junk Diver
1 Karn, Silver Golem
1 Kuldotha Forgemaster
1 Magus of the Future
1 Master Transmuter
1 Memnarch
1 Metalworker
1 Mishra, Artificer Prodigy
1 Myr Retriever
1 Nullstone Gargoyle
1 Pentavus
1 Phyrexian Metamorph
1 Scarecrone
1 Slobad, Goblin Tinkerer
1 Solemn Simulacrum
1 Teferi, Mage of Zhalfir
1 Thada Adel, Acquisitor
1 Trinket Mage
1 Vedalken Archmage
1 Wurmcoil Engine
1 Brainstorm
1 Chaos Warp
1 Cyclonic Rift
1 Hurkyl's Recall
1 Lim-Dûl's Vault
1 Turnabout
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 All Is Dust
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Fabricate
1 Gamble
1 Praetor's Grasp
1 Recurring Insight
1 Reshape
1 Scrap Mastery
1 Vandalblast
1 Wheel of Fortune
1 Clock of Omens
1 Commander's Sphere
1 Crawlspace
1 Crucible of Worlds
1 Crystal Chimes
1 Darksteel Forge
1 Dimir Signet
1 Everflowing Chalice
1 Gilded Lotus
1 Izzet Signet
1 Knowledge Pool
1 Krark-Clan Ironworks
1 Lightning Greaves
1 Memory Jar
1 Mirrorworks
1 Mycosynth Lattice
1 Nevinyrral's Disk
1 Nim Deathmantle
1 Scroll Rack
1 Sculpting Steel
1 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Skeleton Shard
1 Sol Ring
1 Staff of Domination
1 Swiftfoot Boots
1 Thran Dynamo
1 Tormod's Crypt
1 Trading Post
1 Unwinding Clock
1 Vedalken Orrery
1 Voltaic Key
1 Arcane Laboratory
1 Blood Funnel
1 Counterbalance
1 Future Sight
1 Leyline of Anticipation
1 Necropotence
1 Phyrexian Arena
1 Possibility Storm
1 Rhystic Study
1 Soothsaying
1 Teferi, Temporal Archmage
1 Tezzeret the Seeker
1 Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas
1 Academy Ruins
1 Blood Crypt
1 Bloodstained Mire
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Buried Ruin
1 Command Tower
1 Crumbling Necropolis
1 Darksteel Citadel
1 Flooded Strand
1 Graven Cairns
1 Great Furnace
5 Island
1 Mishra's Factory
4 Mountain
1 Phyrexia's Core
1 Polluted Delta
1 Reliquary Tower
1 Scorched Ruins
1 Seat of the Synod
1 Steam Vents
1 Strip Mine
1 Sunken Ruins
4 Swamp
1 Tectonic Edge
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1 Vault of Whispers
1 Volrath's Stronghold
1 Watery Grave
By my count, you need to cut 32 cards to get down to legal size. Since you are at 38 lands im not going to even look at those; ill leave your landbase to your judgement and playtest experience. I am going to list what i'd cut, and then from there, i recommend you experiment. If you play a game and a card doesnt perform, cut it for something else, and keep tweaking it until the decklist hits what you want.
What i'd cut (and a brief why). Note that a lot of my choices are based on my own meta and what little youve mentioned of yours
Memnarch - good, but unnecessary for your build. as you stated, your meta doesnt have good things to steal.
Teferi (creature) - purely a hate generator as he slows opponents cast.
Gamble - less tutors = more fun
demonic tutor - less tutors = more fun
vamp tutor - less tutors = more fun
fabricate - less tutors = more fun
reshape - less tutors = more fun
recurring insight OR c. sphinx - same slot, no need for both.
wheel of fortune - i'd rather draw cards without reloading my opponents if i can, and we've got blue
memory jar - same as wheel
counterbalance - countertop isnt as good in edh, not worth
teferi (planeswalker) - too expensive for too little benefit within the 99
staff of dom - good with infinite mana, unnecessary in this deck. trading post is better for our needs
knowledge pool - cuz i dont like this card
vedalken orrery - good card, but easy to cut early. most of the time its not really necessary.
everflowing chal - overpriced mana rock for the value it gives later, and if an opponent removes it, they time walked you
krark-clan ironworks - great for turning spare stuff into mana, but another easy cut since there are better mana producers'
lim-duls vault - good dig spell, but i minimize tutors and their close relatives.
tormods crpyt - do you have a lot of grave abuse in your meta?
swiftfoot boots OR greaves - i dont tend to run both
nim deathmantle - in and out of my deck, great card, but sometimes really underperforms.
i have no idea how many that is, but thats a good first wave of cuts...again, all of the above cards are great, and very useable in mishra. if i were you i'd just make an aggressive cut, and then start play testing to see what you want to keep, and what you want to replace.
Primer - Mishra, Artificer Prodigy
Thor, Ragnar Röks!
Hela, and the Enemies of Asgard
Teferi, Temporal Archmage
Please post your final 100 when you are ready to start playing! i am very interested to see how your build grows.
Primer - Mishra, Artificer Prodigy
Thor, Ragnar Röks!
Hela, and the Enemies of Asgard
Teferi, Temporal Archmage
1 Chief Engineer
1 Duplicant
1 Etched Champion
1 Etherium Sculptor
1 Geth, Lord of the Vault
1 Goblin Welder
1 Hex Parasite
1 Junk Diver
1 Karn, Silver Golem
1 Kuldotha Forgemaster
1 Master of Etherium
1 Master Transmuter
1 Memnarch
1 Mishra, Artificer Prodigy
1 Muzzio, Visionary Architect
1 Myr Retriever
1 Nullstone Gargoyle
1 Phyrexian Metamorph
1 Plague Myr
1 Solemn Simulacrum
1 Soul of New Phyrexia
1 Spellskite
1 Sphinx Summoner
1 Steel Hellkite
1 Arcane Denial
1 Chaos Warp
1 Lim-Dûl's Vault
1 Perplex
1 Thirst for Knowledge
1 Acquire
1 Fabricate
1 Praetor's Grasp
1 Scrap Mastery
1 Trash for Treasure
1 Vandalblast
1 Cloud Key
1 Commander's Sphere
1 Crystal Ball
1 Darksteel Forge
1 Darksteel Ingot
1 Dimir Signet
1 Gilded Lotus
1 Izzet Signet
1 Mind Stone
1 Mirrorworks
1 Mizzium Transreliquat
1 Mycosynth Lattice
1 Obelisk of Grixis
1 Prototype Portal
1 Rakdos Signet
1 Rings of Brighthearth
1 Scroll Rack
1 Sculpting Steel
1 Semblance Anvil
1 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Skeleton Shard
1 Sol Ring
1 Unwinding Clock
1 Blood Funnel
1 Copy Artifact
1 Phyrexian Arena
1 Planar Chaos
1 Possibility Storm
1 Rhystic Study
1 Daretti, Scrap Savant
1 Tezzeret the Seeker
1 Halimar Depths
1 Steam Vents
1 Izzet Boilerworks
1 Reflecting Pool
1 Dimir Aquaduct
1 Arcane Lighthouse
1 Tolaria West
1 Watery Grave
1 Dragonskull Summit
1 Drowned Catacomb
1 Vault of Whispers
1 Tomb of the Spirit Dragon
1 Ghost Quarter
1 Seat of Synod
1 Rakdos Carnarium
1 Sulfur Falls
1 Great Furnace
1 Crumbling Necropolis
1 Reliquary Tower
1 Darksteel Citadel
1 Command Tower
1 Temple of the False God
1 Blood Crypt
1 Academy Ruins
2 Swamp
2 Island
2 Mountain
The deck like I said is meant to work with or without the mad genius that is Mishra. There are a lot of flavor cards, as well as cards that are used to offset the kinds of Commanders I am used to facing. The two places I play at usually have a lot of red, blue, and/or black decks. White and blue do crop up, but not as frequently as others. I often fight another Grixis deck, a Thassa deck, a GrimGrin deck, a Brago deck, and a Narset deck.
Feel free to ask or comment on anything. I'll explain why I run the card or be inspired possibly to run something better. I should also point out that I do intend on getting Blightsteel for this deck, as well as Kozilek and Ulamog. Why the Titans? WHY NOT THE TITANS?! Just something out of left field to abuse the colorless mana. Chances are I won't use the Titans, but I am trying to find bigger/better beatsticks besides Soul, Hellkite, and Blightsteel.
Have you considered running Dark Depths+Thespian's Stage? You already run Hex Parasite which works well with the two, Thespians Stage can copy any of your other useful lands, and it would give you another win condition (and help you with the missing beat stick problem :))
All in all, your list looks very solid. Something that I think would benefit you would be to remove the Karoo lands. They do not really provide any speed to your ramp up, enter play tapped (without Amulet of Vigor in your build, i dont see value to playing them), and simply give your opponents a single target to take out 2 mana. Me personally, i would drop them and pick up 3x more basics - this will help your resiliency to non-basic hate, and make your lands less problematic as removal targets.
Rings of brighthearth is a great card - but do you think you run enough activated abilities that benefit from being copied to justify the slot in your deck?
At 3cc i dont like Obelisk of Grixis. Yes it produces our colors, but its fairly unwhelming beyond that. I would sooner run Coalition Relic at that spot for the trick 2 mana play to give yourself a boost when you need it, with unwinding clock in play it can really spike your mana for a turn, and it does everything obelisk already does. Another option would be looking at worn powerstone or thran dynamo as alternative mana rocks.
Last question - Nevinyrral's Disk is my win condition. You already have all the other necessary parts (mycosynth lattice, darksteel forge, optional vandalblast alternative). Any reason you don't include Larry's Disk?
Primer - Mishra, Artificer Prodigy
Thor, Ragnar Röks!
Hela, and the Enemies of Asgard
Teferi, Temporal Archmage
I hadn't considered running those lands! I'll have to save up for Dark Depths. I may take out the Karoo lands and replace them with those. Or I could shuffle things around and take advantage of the Amulet and have it help the Karoo lands and Geth.
The obelisk is in there as a mana rock for now. It's one of the cards I intend to take out in the future. I'm not fond of the Coalition Relic, and am trying to get my hands on a Thran Dynamo.
As for the board wiping disk of hate...Well I am picking up that and an Oblivion Stone today during EDH night at my shop
I'm waiting on my next paycheck to get All is Dust, Minamo, School at water's edge, Torpor Orb, Transmute Artifact, Wurmcoil Engine, Blightsteel Colossus, Necropotence, and the usable Fetch lands.
hahaha...the board wiping disk of hate...still laughing to myself.
Primer - Mishra, Artificer Prodigy
Thor, Ragnar Röks!
Hela, and the Enemies of Asgard
Teferi, Temporal Archmage
Necropotence was removed, it's always dead to me, and I don't feel like finding another Urborg (I also play Marchesa and Rafiq). I did however do something fun today with the Karoo lands. I found a fun way to play Bojuka Bog, bounce it for a Karoo, then rinse and repeat.
My build also severely lacks offense. I have 9-12 mana by turn 5, but nothing to do with it. For the future of my own build, I think some Tutors and beatsticks are needed. All that mana, and also no real way to draw. Once I ran out of a hand, I was basically done and unable to recover. I also needed some counters, rarely, but sometimes really needed them.
How did you solve some of these issues?
@Offense - my build is very defensive oriented. i try to play effects that minimize what can attack me, and play resilient or self replacing creatures. i used to run slobad, goblin tinkerer to aid in this effort as well.
@Card Advantage - i primarily use blue for card draw in my build as opposed to cards like Necropotence. In addition to this, try to remember that causing your opponents to lose cards is just as good as you drawing them. Effects like possibility storm with Mishra in play really enable us to gain false card advantage since we get what we want plus extra cards, where as our opponents lose control.
@Countermagic - It pains me not to run a good counter suite, and so to counteract this (no pun intended), i try to play more and more threats quickly. The main cards that have tended to cause me problems are Waves of Vitriol, Bane of Progress, and Merciless Eviction. I choose not to run counter magic because in my meta i am already the big bad guy, and both my Merieke and Damia builds run heavy counter magic suites. I accept this as a weakness and try to play through it.
@Tutors - I choose not to play them because in my eyes, they make a deck 'solved'. My damia build is my competative deck, and when i land a tutor, it turns into rune scarred demon who fetches dead eye navigator which lets me search for palinchron which lets me generate infinite mana into i win. If i could tutor, i'd fetch arcum, and start the abuse from there. This is totally up to you. If your meta is more competitive, i would recommend them.
Primer - Mishra, Artificer Prodigy
Thor, Ragnar Röks!
Hela, and the Enemies of Asgard
Teferi, Temporal Archmage
Beautiful alter man, congrats. I am working on altering my own deck now, but its a slow process of practicing a lot before i commit to paining on cards.
Ah, that makes sense. I didnt realize you already had a stax build, sounded like you were leaning that way, hence my recommendations.
As i say early in the primer, playing Mishra isnt about winning game constantly. He isnt my play-to-crush-my-opponents commander - he is my, i've-put-effort-into-building-this-guy commmander. If i wanted to be more competitive, i'd be loaded up on tutors and countermagic to protect my combo, and drop it earlier and more consistently. My current Mishra build is designed to be 75%. My current meta is full of growing and learning players, and while there are a few true terrors in my circle (a gnarly prossh deck, an athreos-stax deck, and a few others), when i want to win i switch to a competitive commander. I would say my win rate with mishra is under 50%, above 30%.
You may be asking - why build a commander, why put the effort into writing a primer, if you arent going to play a list that makes him as strong as possible. My reasoning is because i dont like tutors - i think they make a deck repetitive and bland. I call decks like that 'solved,' as there is always a best path to take, and that means if i dont play that path, im intentionally not playing smart. I want to build decks that give me unique experiences each game, and while i may try to control my opponents, i dont believe in completely locking my friends out of playing in a kitchen table format. This is just MY philosophy, and I am currently working on additional Mishra builds in the main thread to cover much more competitive builds than my current 75% build (if i go to more events with mishra, i'll go spike and make him a terror, but for now, i play him kitchen table).
Primer - Mishra, Artificer Prodigy
Thor, Ragnar Röks!
Hela, and the Enemies of Asgard
Teferi, Temporal Archmage
If it helps for an added idea, I'm adding Hellkite Tyrant to my deck and thinking of adding a way to flash him in, Such as Vedalkin Ornery. Let's be honest, if someone see I have that and close to the number of artifacts, I become an instant target before it gets back to my turn.
Right now, in my tuned down version (I am still getting beat sticks) I rely on Soul of New Phyrexia and Steel Hellkite to bring the power. Otherwise, I have mana for days and not much to spend it on. Playing Mishra a few times with my build and seeing the others, I think Blightsteel, Ulamog, and Kozilek are prime choices for the deck in terms of offensive cards. The way my groups play, combos are a rare and special occurrence, so beating in faces or locking people down is the most common route.
At the idea of hellkite tyrant - i think he could be interesting if you can sneak him into play; but i tend to avoid moves that declare me winner. In my meta, when someone wins off of something like that, the group tends to play for 2nd place while you get to sit and watch. Also, in line with what Kealsera mentioned, with clone/theft/etc effects, hes a massive risk; even if an opponent doesnt get the auto win off of him, he deals a destructive blow to our board.
Primer - Mishra, Artificer Prodigy
Thor, Ragnar Röks!
Hela, and the Enemies of Asgard
Teferi, Temporal Archmage
I would continue to run the Praetor's grasp and Brainstorm. The grasp allows you not only to grab an artifact, but it allows you to see your opponents entire deck. In some matches, that could be a big turn around. Brainstorm also allows you to slightly modify your hand, and is a cheaper one time use of Sensei's Top.
As for your lands, for the life gain have you considered Miren, the moaning well? I'm using it for my Marchesa deck and it is great, especially if you intend to sac things like you mentioned with High Market.
@ Kealsera and LordRewind
The group I play with has done a few instant win games, and infinite loops. Some times we end up with 3+ hour games where we just want it to end, and in those instances, Hellkite Tyrant would be awesome to have. I am considering using Charger if I can get a few more attackers. Definitely saving up for the Eldrazi Titans. Given the amount of mana I can produce, getting them out by turn 6-7 is a breeze.
This card is game over vs any form of discard. My group has a healthy stax / attrition level to it, so i personally wouldnt ever run null profusion unless i was running a storm variant of Mishra. Discarding 2 cards is easily accomplished by opponents, then you are dead in the water unless you have another way to start your card draw again. Too much of a risk for me to like it, especially at 6 mana - recurring insight will score me at least 8 cards for 6 mana, which i much prefer.
@Hellkite Tyrant
I think hes a fine card, and as i said, if you can sneak him into play for the windmill slam win, go for it! i'd be too scared to run it for fear of someone using a red theft+haste effect or a blue clone effect or a black reanimate from my grave effect...1 hit from him is pretty damning to our boardstate.
Primer - Mishra, Artificer Prodigy
Thor, Ragnar Röks!
Hela, and the Enemies of Asgard
Teferi, Temporal Archmage
I would urge you to go Thirst for Knowledge.
all in all, great looking list, i'd play it
Primer - Mishra, Artificer Prodigy
Thor, Ragnar Röks!
Hela, and the Enemies of Asgard
Teferi, Temporal Archmage
Tonight I got to live the dream. My board state at end game contained the following cards:
Mishra, Artificer Prodigy
vedalken archmage
phyrexian metamorph (copying archmage)
sculpting steel (copying metamorph copy of archmage)
blood funnel
cloud key
Etherium sculptor
Was off to the races with free spells that came with free ancestral recalls. I can see how a storm variant of Mishra could be brilliantly effective.
Primer - Mishra, Artificer Prodigy
Thor, Ragnar Röks!
Hela, and the Enemies of Asgard
Teferi, Temporal Archmage