Nah, the card is bad. Doesn't really do anything. Offering a kill with Jarad is so... eh. I have to have the creatures to sac in the first place, so I may as well fling those to Jarad.
I'm not a huge fan of any of those cards. Corpse Dance doesn't quite have the flexibility, Makeshift Mannequin is too expensive, and Riftsweeper just doesn't seems like something you want to be doing. I'd rather just be going onto a different plan than trying to fish things back from exile if you get hit with graveyard hate. Having several different combo lines makes it so you can just shift gears if one of them gets disrupted.
As far as your list goes overall, I'm still not comfortable with 31 lands. You also play significantly more spot removal than I do. Perhaps I need to pack a bit more, as I did find myself getting aggro'd out by a Kaalia deck yesterday. Putrefy is probably the first option to look at since the free ones (Snuff Out and Slaughter Pact) can't hit black creatures, and I'm already running Abrupt Decay, which also can't hit Kaalia.
I'm conflicted on Rune-Scarred Demon in my list because he's such a fantastic creature in a reanimator deck, but he very easily leads into the type of combos and "monotonous" games that my group dislikes so strongly. I feel a little bit sad because in the two games I played with this deck yesterday, I had a lot more fun in the game I lost, simply because I was doing a lot more. The first game I just kind of sat there ramping and hardcasting my reanimator targets, then they would get targeted with removal and I would sac them to Altar of Dementia. At one point I got Volrath's Stronghold out with quite a large graveyard. I flipped through it, saw Sewer Nemesis, untapped, and killed the table. I didn't really enjoy the win because I basically went from doing nothing into an "oops I win" scenario. The other game I was eliminated quite early, but I got to make quite a splash before I died. I had an awesome start with T1 Deathrite Shaman off a fetch into T2 Survival of the Fittest. My T3 involved playing a sac outlet along with putting Woodfall Primus and a creature of my choice into the graveyard, to be followed by a turn 4 Living Death. I could have grabbed Mikaeus, the Unhallowed and ended the game right there, but I knew that line of play wouldn't be appreciated, so I just went for the awesome value of Disciple of Bolas instead. That was the game where I ended up getting killed by the Kaalia player.
I know at one point on reddit you suggested that I play Baleful Force in my deck, so I've given him a chance, but I still don't really like him. He's just so fragile and draws cards so slowly. I much prefer to draw a bunch of cards in one burst, so I'll probably end up replacing him with something that lets me do that. However, your suggestion of Victimize has been awesome. It's the closest thing I can get to playing Recurring Nightmare in this format, especially with Eternal Witness around.
I'm not a huge fan of any of those cards. Corpse Dance doesn't quite have the flexibility, Mannequin is too expensive, and Riftsweeper just doesn't seems like something you want to be doing. I'd rather just be going onto a different plan than trying to fish things back from exile if you get hit with graveyard hate. Having several different combo lines makes it so you can just shift gears if one of them gets disrupted.
My thoughts exactly. MM is in testing but likely to be cut soon too.
31 lands has actually been treating me very well - well enough that I could go to 30. Note that I'm playing Mana Crypt, so it functions more like 32 when compared to yours. Speaking of land, Tempt With Discovery is super strong - often allowing me to assemble Urborg + Coffers. It also finds Strip Mine, which incentivizes other players to search for their own land. Funny that the card is so good even though it has such a terrible mechanic.
You're right that I do run a lot of removal. The thought process here is that all these cards that make me lose life (Necropotence, Reanimate variants, Mana Crypt) paint a big fat target on my life total, and I need to protect it somehow. It also allows me to draw out counterspells pre-combo occasionally, or blow up their blue mana before I combo out. If Kaalia is big in your meta, I'd play cards like Dismember and Putrefy, yeah.
Funny - the Greater Good lines of play are, for me, the most fun thing the deck does (outside of winning ). Drawing dem cards into some clutch win with Dread Return or something is just so... it just feels really good. The whole Necrotic Ooze thing feels cheap after the fourth time in a row, but this win never ceases to make me tingle.
Baleful Force is a complete winner in my deck, IDK why he's underperforming in yours. He's like half a C Sphinx on an 8/8 body.
Decklist updated.
Corpse Dance out. Ultimately slow, no utility.
Dryad Arbor and Quillspike out. The combo is bad, and slow. Never needed it.
Makeshift Mannequin in because instant-speed reanimation is good. Four mana is rough - may also get cut.
Birds of Paradise is in, I felt a little slow and decided to play a dork.
Song of the Dryads is in - I felt like another removal spell was appropriate.
I found this thread because of your posts on Jack_from_NC's Sharuum thread. They were very insightful so I figured the odds were you would have a quality decklist. My shop does both partial Paris and full mulligans depending on who is playing. If I wanted to add lands, what would you cut? I guess a better question would be what are the weakest three cards?
31 lands has actually been treating me very well - well enough that I could go to 30. Note that I'm playing Mana Crypt, so it functions more like 32 when compared to yours. Speaking of land, Tempt With Discovery is super strong - often allowing me to assemble Urborg + Coffers. It also finds Strip Mine, which incentivizes other players to search for their own land. Funny that the card is so good even though it has such a terrible mechanic.
I think you find it good because you play with people who don't understand the card, honestly. I see, often, people in Lawrence play the card, threaten to strip somebody off color, and then the two other people threaten to strip them out of the game if they take it. Its just... objectively wrong to take it in a competitive AND competent meta, and I don't think you've played a full pod that is both in some time.
Basically, its super good, which is why people shouldn't enable it, which is why they always seem to.
How have you felt about Bitter Revelation? I'm currently running Night's Whisper in my build but I was thinking about making the swap because we don't get great ways to put cards directly into the graveyard that often without access to blue.
I found this thread because of your posts on Jack_from_NC's Sharuum thread. They were very insightful so I figured the odds were you would have a quality decklist. My shop does both partial Paris and full mulligans depending on who is playing. If I wanted to add lands, what would you cut? I guess a better question would be what are the weakest three cards?
I dunno, some of the more mana-intensive ramp I believe. Gilded Lotus, Skyshroud Claim, Tempt with Discovery..? Speaking of which.
I think you find it good because you play with people who don't understand the card, honestly. I see, often, people in Lawrence play the card, threaten to strip somebody off color, and then the two other people threaten to strip them out of the game if they take it. Its just... objectively wrong to take it in a competitive AND competent meta, and I don't think you've played a full pod that is both in some time.
Basically, its super good, which is why people shouldn't enable it, which is why they always seem to.
It's interesting to me that you say it's objectively correct to not take the offer. Outside of table talk and collusion, in terms of game theory and microecononimcs, it seems to be objectively correct to take the land - it sets you and one other player ahead, which is similar to setting two players behind. When one land drop is worth three of your opponents (to keep a game at equilibrium, I mean), that land drop is very valuable. These situations are what, in my opinion, make the card the most nuanced and skill-dependent card in the deck, with the possible exception of Necropotence.
That said, the card plays very differently within the context of repetitive interaction and table talk - which is where the Strip Mine plan comes in. Often players will believe that it's correct to take the offer IFF other players are, and will check or make arrangements with other players on how they will respond to the card before deciding whether or not they'll be taking the offer themselves. In this case, and especially when it's the first opponent checking, I will threaten the player with the fewest lands / most reliant on their lands, not the first player.
If I don't believe that my opponents will take the offer, it's still a good card for finding the second half of Urborg + Coffers, a Bojuka Bog, or simply Ancient Tomb. Ultimately, yes, the card's power comes from how much room it gives your opponents to misplay, and how impossible it is to make the correct choice. I do believe it is almost always correct to, when your opponent uses the card, find your own Strip Mine. This gives you the chance to neutralize their land if need be while maintaining your own landbase.
How have you felt about Bitter Revelation? I'm currently running Night's Whisper in my build but I was thinking about making the swap because we don't get great ways to put cards directly into the graveyard that often without access to blue.
It could go either way. The card is still in testing.
So I went and made a very quick draft of a combo list based on the changes I would likely make to my current decklist if I wanted it to be as competitive as possible. There's no testing at all to back it up so far, but I feel like it offers enough different combo lines that I should be able to pick the best one based on what's in my hand and what decks I'm playing against. Initial list can be found here: http://deckbox.org/sets/849943
Hey guys so I've actually moved on from commander on to 60 card decks so I don't have any commander decks.
Anyway I've started my own gameplay channel in which I play games (Magic also)
You'd think so. Both of them are ultimately slow. Cradle does nothing unless I have creatures, which often I don't, and Bazaar does nothing unless I have cards in hand, which again is rare.
I playtested Jarad this weekend. Very much liking Birds of Paradise. I cut it awhile ago and it's playing very well now that it's back in the deck. Makeshift Mannequin is also playing well, which is surprising, and nice! The instant-speed is so good, and the illusion clause is hardly relevant. No conclusive results yet on Song of the Dryads.
Working real hard to trade into that Imperial Seal - last money card I need for the deck.
What do you all think of Fairie Macabre? I've not really been needing the gravehate too much, but it makes Survival of the Fittest so much better. Do you guys think I should play it? I've been working on building the number of creatures in my deck, for reasons like Survival or just Living Death combo. Which I pulled off the other day. I think one of the reasons this deck is good is that there are so many different good ways to win if your main wincon gets exiled.
Loss of life is still a small problem. Considering adding Koko Puffs back in. Certainly a card I've missed since cutting.
I was actually about to suggest Koko be re-added; simply from a gameplay point of view, it would make me feel a lot safer when playing the deck if I knew I had a solid game against obnoxious Krenko or Derevi decks. Plus, you sometimes have Jarad and Mikaeus, and he definitely does 21 damage to each player with a small investment. A single reanimate spell and you're suddenly killing people with value instead of combo, which is great when it involves some of your top targets anyway. Terribly christmasland example of the power of the card, but it explains the point very well. Another card which fills a vaguely similar role is Disciple of Bolas. Sure, I know its a terrible card when you most need it, but it helps with Survival, turns a big Jarad into amazing value (and lets be real, its easy for him to randomly get big), and offers a fair amount of lifegain. I don't know that its good by any means, but it could be tested. Sometimes bad cards do work.
As far as Faerie Macabre, I still love it. Its solid grave-hate that increases your creature density; that should be good for multitudes of reasons ranging from the above to Survival.
So I went and made a very quick draft of a combo list based on the changes I would likely make to my current decklist if I wanted it to be as competitive as possible. There's no testing at all to back it up so far, but I feel like it offers enough different combo lines that I should be able to pick the best one based on what's in my hand and what decks I'm playing against. Initial list can be found here: http://deckbox.org/sets/849943
Off the top of my head, Bloodrite Invoker, Fleshbag Marauder, nearly every dredge card, etc could be cut. Buried Alive, Entomb, Jarad's Orders, Greater Good, Survival of the Fittest, Altar of Dementia, and maybe Loam (if you need it) generate more than enough graveyard fuel, and tutors enable that you get them. You've also got a handful of instants and sorceries that I don't get; does the squirrel one combo? It doesn't seem like a great combo, and playing it as fuel for Skullclamp is questionable. Either one could be replaced with a large multitude of cards that would generate more reliable draw.
I was actually about to suggest Koko be re-added; simply from a gameplay point of view, it would make me feel a lot safer when playing the deck if I knew I had a solid game against obnoxious Krenko or Derevi decks. Plus, you sometimes have Jarad and Mikaeus, and he definitely does 21 damage to each player with a small investment. A single reanimate spell and you're suddenly killing people with value instead of combo, which is great when it involves some of your top targets anyway. Terribly christmasland example of the power of the card, but it explains the point very well. Another card which fills a vaguely similar role is Disciple of Bolas. Sure, I know its a terrible card when you most need it, but it helps with Survival, turns a big Jarad into amazing value (and lets be real, its easy for him to randomly get big), and offers a fair amount of lifegain. I don't know that its good by any means, but it could be tested. Sometimes bad cards do work.
I have played the card in the past. Ultimately it was cut along with Birthing Pod (the first time around). I could consider testing it again, but honestly since the inclusion of Graveborn Muse, I haven't felt the need for more card draw. By the way, double-flinging Koko with Mike out is 23 life - Mike is an anthem effect as well as the undying.
@DTrain, I pretty much agree with Avvina's critique. Fleshbag Marauder is actually something I completely understand and have been thinking about running, but other than that I think he hit the nail right on the head.
I second Avvina on trying Lili OTV. I know that you're worried about the potential of Narset as a commander, and Lili is a diabolic edict with upside. Another option might be to just run another mana dork like arbor elves? Could make the deck a bit speedier. You could also try seedtime.
I second Avvina on trying Lili OTV. I know that you're worried about the potential of Narset as a commander, and Lili is a diabolic edict with upside. Another option might be to just run another mana dork like arbor elves? Could make the deck a bit speedier. You could also try seedtime.
So I got a significant amount of testing this weekend. Made a couple changes and am now running Liliana Vess. The card's real good - the repeatable tutor ability makes me wish I had been running it sooner. I cut Regrowth for it, which really is not an effect we want to be playing a bunch of. E Wit + every reanimate spell on E Wit is more than enough. Didn't get to test Pattern of Rebirth ever, so more on that later.
Working on including a budget section in the second post of the thread.
Don't like Pattern of Rebirth. I played it for a little while and it was just way too unreliable. Being an Aura, it's very easy to fizzle it, and sometimes when you draw it you won't have a creature in play or a way to sac the creature that it does end up on. There are just too many things that can go wrong with it for to be worthwhile, and I really want it to be good because I have a foil one.
I'm not a fan of Liliana Vess either. 5 mana for a tutor is quite expensive, especially for one that only goes to the top of your library at sorcery speed, and most times I have seen her played she only got to tutor once before someone killed her. I think I'd much rather playing something like Increasing Ambition in a deck like this, but I probably wouldn't end up playing that card either. If you get an Imperial Seal I'd easily replace Liliana with it.
I was actually skimming through your list again and realized that I could basically be playing your exact deck aside from the Mana Crypt if I wanted. Any suggestions for what card would replace Crypt if I wanted to give it a try?
As far as my own list, I was thinking about putting in Scroll Rack, probably in place of Night's Whisper. Other cards I want to replace are Nighthowler, Golgari Signet, and Gilded Lotus. I'll probably replace the rocks with land ramp, since most of the players in my meta refuse to play with or against mass land destruction. I also want to put Green Sun's Zenith and Dryad Arbor back in, so I'll see where that leaves me. Having a creature on a land gives the deck a lot of added flexibility that I think is worth the occasional tempo hit.
So I just need some help explaining to people the necrotic ooze + triskellion + phyrexian devourer combo. The old oracle text used to say when which implied that the power got checked as a result of the activated ability meaning that you could only use cards that are 2cmc or less, but now it says if meaning that you can use it no matter how high the cost is because it doesn't check. Does anyone have a link to the specific rule for this and also maybe a short way of explaining it?
Don't like Pattern of Rebirth. I played it for a little while and it was just way too unreliable...
I'm not a fan of Liliana Vess either... I think I'd much rather playing something like Increasing Ambition in a deck like this, but I probably wouldn't end up playing that card either.
I was actually skimming through your list again and realized that I could basically be playing your exact deck aside from the Mana Crypt if I wanted. Any suggestions for what card would replace Crypt if I wanted to give it a try?
Like I said, Pattern of Rebirth is in testing. It's been pretty nice so far. Maybe it's better for me just because Baleful Force is good for me. I'll tell you how I feel when I've played it an appropriate amount. As for Liliana Vess, that card has been veeerry good. I think it's earned a permanent slot in the list. Usually I can get off two tutors, but if creatures are swinging into her, half the time if they weren't they'd be at me, so it's not all bad. I've played Increasing Ambition before and it's not as good. I'd replace Mana Crypt with another mana dork, I guess. It's the speediest ramp I don't play. Maybe Elves of Deep Shadow. By the way, if you're playing less than seven fetches, don't play Deathrite Shaman. Those changes in your list all seem pretty solid.
So I just need some help explaining to people the Necrotic Ooze combo. The old oracle text used to say when which implied that the power got checked as a result of the activated ability meaning that you could only use cards that are 2cmc or less, but now it says if meaning that you can use it no matter how high the cost is because it doesn't check. Does anyone have a link to the specific rule for this and also maybe a short way of explaining it?
So here's the best way to explain it. Necrotic Ooze inherits these abilities:
Quote from Phyrexian Devourer"s Oracle Text » »
Exile the top card of your library: Put X +1/+1 counters on CARDNAME, where X is the exiled card's converted mana cost.
Quote from Triskelion"s Oracle Text » »
Remove a +1/+1 counter from CARDNAME: CARDNAME deals 1 damage to target creature or player.
It doesn't inherit the sacrifice clause from Devourer or the ETB effect on Triskelion. Those aren't activated abilities. So all you do is you exile the top card of your library repeatedly with Phyrexian Devourer, resolving that ability, and then removing the counters with Triskelion's ability to deal damage. It's more simple than the Phy Devourer + Jarad combo, which I talk about in my primer in-depth.
Like I said, Pattern of Rebirth is in testing. It's been pretty nice so far. Maybe it's better for me just because Baleful Force is good for me. I'll tell you how I feel when I've played it an appropriate amount. As for Liliana Vess, that card has been veeerry good. I think it's earned a permanent slot in the list. Usually I can get off two tutors, but if creatures are swinging into her, half the time if they weren't they'd be at me, so it's not all bad. I've played Increasing Ambition before and it's not as good. I'd replace Mana Crypt with another mana dork, I guess. It's the speediest ramp I don't play. Maybe Elves of Deep Shadow. By the way, if you're playing less than seven fetches, don't play Deathrite Shaman. Those changes in your list all seem pretty solid.
Not sure where you're seeing less fetches, but I am definitely playing all 7. My experience with Liliana is that she tends to draw attacks to herself. So someone that might have attacked another player or not attacked at all will attack Liliana just so they can get it off the board. Getting it 3 damage to a player isn't that big of a deal, but dealing 3 to their planeswalker and killing it is way more relevant. That could be one of the bigger differences in our groups. Mine rarely lets Planeswalkers stick around, and big value over time creatures like Baleful Force often bite the dust pretty quick as well.
Haha. Attacking for combat damage isn't something I want to be doing with this gameplan. I've played P Deed in the past and really it was a bit slow, I also don't need more sweepers / removal right now. I wwill test deed, though.
Not sure where you're seeing less fetches, but I am definitely playing all 7. My experience with Liliana is that she tends to draw attacks to herself. So someone that might have attacked another player or not attacked at all will attack Liliana just so they can get it off the board. Getting it 3 damage to a player isn't that big of a deal, but dealing 3 to their planeswalker and killing it is way more relevant. That could be one of the bigger differences in our groups. Mine rarely lets Planeswalkers stick around, and big value over time creatures like Baleful Force often bite the dust pretty quick as well.
Wasn't looking at your deck about the fetches, just kind of spitballing.
About PWs and Baleful Force. PWs take the majority of the combat damage when they're in play but honestly outside of a few decks most decks don't run that many creatures, certainly not ones they play for the combat damage. I think the fact that I'm a combo meta is the underlying reason for both effects. Baleful Force certainly eats removal... as long as they're confidant they're not losing to the Palinchron combo next turn. Most players don't play aggressive combat-oriented creatures because their wincons are two card combos, not battleship magic or combat damage, so they don't have those creatures to attack Planeswalkers.
Just had a real nutty win. I'm at a table of five, with myself, Nin, Avvina piloting a friend's Momir Vig, Narset, and that friend piloting Avvina's Sharuum. I was doing jack-all with a lowly Hermit Druid in play until I topdeck Tempt with Discovery. I have Urborg in play, so I cast it and find Coffers. I find Strip Mine, and threaten to strip the Narset player if he doesn't search - he's off white. Nin decides she wants to search too - presumably to combo off next turn - and Sharuum searches Strip Mine to kill my Urborg. Too bad for him, he'll never have the chance. I'm pretty happy about this and tutor three basic lands out of my deck. Thanks, Hermit Druid! I turn HD sideways and mill a good 40 or so cards, and proceed to cast Living Death, and the Sharuum player removes the Lord of Extinction from my grave (I was representing lethal with it). I reanimate (among other things) Mike, Trike, Necrotic Ooze, Sakura-Tribe Elder, Crypt Ghast. I play land two for turn and try and M&T to kill. Undying on the stack, Chaos Warp targets Mike. With that on the stack, I sac Steve. With THAT on the stack, I sac Ooze to the Steve ability, and it undies. I remove the counter using Trike's ability. Sac as Steve. Remove as Trike. Kill table.
Jarad Graveyard Combo[Primer]!
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Playing Commander to Win - A guide on Competitive, 4-player EDH
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As far as your list goes overall, I'm still not comfortable with 31 lands. You also play significantly more spot removal than I do. Perhaps I need to pack a bit more, as I did find myself getting aggro'd out by a Kaalia deck yesterday. Putrefy is probably the first option to look at since the free ones (Snuff Out and Slaughter Pact) can't hit black creatures, and I'm already running Abrupt Decay, which also can't hit Kaalia.
I'm conflicted on Rune-Scarred Demon in my list because he's such a fantastic creature in a reanimator deck, but he very easily leads into the type of combos and "monotonous" games that my group dislikes so strongly. I feel a little bit sad because in the two games I played with this deck yesterday, I had a lot more fun in the game I lost, simply because I was doing a lot more. The first game I just kind of sat there ramping and hardcasting my reanimator targets, then they would get targeted with removal and I would sac them to Altar of Dementia. At one point I got Volrath's Stronghold out with quite a large graveyard. I flipped through it, saw Sewer Nemesis, untapped, and killed the table. I didn't really enjoy the win because I basically went from doing nothing into an "oops I win" scenario. The other game I was eliminated quite early, but I got to make quite a splash before I died. I had an awesome start with T1 Deathrite Shaman off a fetch into T2 Survival of the Fittest. My T3 involved playing a sac outlet along with putting Woodfall Primus and a creature of my choice into the graveyard, to be followed by a turn 4 Living Death. I could have grabbed Mikaeus, the Unhallowed and ended the game right there, but I knew that line of play wouldn't be appreciated, so I just went for the awesome value of Disciple of Bolas instead. That was the game where I ended up getting killed by the Kaalia player.
I know at one point on reddit you suggested that I play Baleful Force in my deck, so I've given him a chance, but I still don't really like him. He's just so fragile and draws cards so slowly. I much prefer to draw a bunch of cards in one burst, so I'll probably end up replacing him with something that lets me do that. However, your suggestion of Victimize has been awesome. It's the closest thing I can get to playing Recurring Nightmare in this format, especially with Eternal Witness around.
GUB [Retired Primer] The Mimeoplasm BUG
Modern: UR Storm RU
Cube: WUBRG Pauper Cube GRBUW
Credit for the banner goes to DarkNightCavalier at Heroes of the Plane Studios
My thoughts exactly. MM is in testing but likely to be cut soon too.
Jarad Graveyard Combo[Primer]!
Sidisi ANT!
Playing Commander to Win - A guide on Competitive, 4-player EDH
LandDestruction.com - An EDH blog
GUB [Retired Primer] The Mimeoplasm BUG
Modern: UR Storm RU
Cube: WUBRG Pauper Cube GRBUW
Credit for the banner goes to DarkNightCavalier at Heroes of the Plane Studios
You're right that I do run a lot of removal. The thought process here is that all these cards that make me lose life (Necropotence, Reanimate variants, Mana Crypt) paint a big fat target on my life total, and I need to protect it somehow. It also allows me to draw out counterspells pre-combo occasionally, or blow up their blue mana before I combo out. If Kaalia is big in your meta, I'd play cards like Dismember and Putrefy, yeah.
Funny - the Greater Good lines of play are, for me, the most fun thing the deck does (outside of winning ). Drawing dem cards into some clutch win with Dread Return or something is just so... it just feels really good. The whole Necrotic Ooze thing feels cheap after the fourth time in a row, but this win never ceases to make me tingle.
Baleful Force is a complete winner in my deck, IDK why he's underperforming in yours. He's like half a C Sphinx on an 8/8 body.
Jarad Graveyard Combo[Primer]!
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Playing Commander to Win - A guide on Competitive, 4-player EDH
LandDestruction.com - An EDH blog
Corpse Dance out. Ultimately slow, no utility.
Dryad Arbor and Quillspike out. The combo is bad, and slow. Never needed it.
Makeshift Mannequin in because instant-speed reanimation is good. Four mana is rough - may also get cut.
Birds of Paradise is in, I felt a little slow and decided to play a dork.
Song of the Dryads is in - I felt like another removal spell was appropriate.
Jarad Graveyard Combo[Primer]!
Sidisi ANT!
Playing Commander to Win - A guide on Competitive, 4-player EDH
LandDestruction.com - An EDH blog
I think you find it good because you play with people who don't understand the card, honestly. I see, often, people in Lawrence play the card, threaten to strip somebody off color, and then the two other people threaten to strip them out of the game if they take it. Its just... objectively wrong to take it in a competitive AND competent meta, and I don't think you've played a full pod that is both in some time.
Basically, its super good, which is why people shouldn't enable it, which is why they always seem to.
#moneypile
BUG Tasigur GUB
#buglyfe
GUB [Retired Primer] The Mimeoplasm BUG
Modern: UR Storm RU
Cube: WUBRG Pauper Cube GRBUW
Credit for the banner goes to DarkNightCavalier at Heroes of the Plane Studios
I wrote out a long response to each of you, but MTGS ate it. Here's attempt number two.
I dunno, some of the more mana-intensive ramp I believe. Gilded Lotus, Skyshroud Claim, Tempt with Discovery..? Speaking of which.
It's interesting to me that you say it's objectively correct to not take the offer. Outside of table talk and collusion, in terms of game theory and microecononimcs, it seems to be objectively correct to take the land - it sets you and one other player ahead, which is similar to setting two players behind. When one land drop is worth three of your opponents (to keep a game at equilibrium, I mean), that land drop is very valuable. These situations are what, in my opinion, make the card the most nuanced and skill-dependent card in the deck, with the possible exception of Necropotence.
That said, the card plays very differently within the context of repetitive interaction and table talk - which is where the Strip Mine plan comes in. Often players will believe that it's correct to take the offer IFF other players are, and will check or make arrangements with other players on how they will respond to the card before deciding whether or not they'll be taking the offer themselves. In this case, and especially when it's the first opponent checking, I will threaten the player with the fewest lands / most reliant on their lands, not the first player.
If I don't believe that my opponents will take the offer, it's still a good card for finding the second half of Urborg + Coffers, a Bojuka Bog, or simply Ancient Tomb. Ultimately, yes, the card's power comes from how much room it gives your opponents to misplay, and how impossible it is to make the correct choice. I do believe it is almost always correct to, when your opponent uses the card, find your own Strip Mine. This gives you the chance to neutralize their land if need be while maintaining your own landbase.
It could go either way. The card is still in testing.
Jarad Graveyard Combo[Primer]!
Sidisi ANT!
Playing Commander to Win - A guide on Competitive, 4-player EDH
LandDestruction.com - An EDH blog
GUB [Retired Primer] The Mimeoplasm BUG
Modern: UR Storm RU
Cube: WUBRG Pauper Cube GRBUW
Credit for the banner goes to DarkNightCavalier at Heroes of the Plane Studios
They both seem very good for acceleration
Anyway I've started my own gameplay channel in which I play games (Magic also)
Twitch:
https://www.twitch.tv/dies_to_doom_blade
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You'd think so. Both of them are ultimately slow. Cradle does nothing unless I have creatures, which often I don't, and Bazaar does nothing unless I have cards in hand, which again is rare.
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Working real hard to trade into that Imperial Seal - last money card I need for the deck.
What do you all think of Fairie Macabre? I've not really been needing the gravehate too much, but it makes Survival of the Fittest so much better. Do you guys think I should play it? I've been working on building the number of creatures in my deck, for reasons like Survival or just Living Death combo. Which I pulled off the other day. I think one of the reasons this deck is good is that there are so many different good ways to win if your main wincon gets exiled.
Loss of life is still a small problem. Considering adding Koko Puffs back in. Certainly a card I've missed since cutting.
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As far as Faerie Macabre, I still love it. Its solid grave-hate that increases your creature density; that should be good for multitudes of reasons ranging from the above to Survival.
Off the top of my head, Bloodrite Invoker, Fleshbag Marauder, nearly every dredge card, etc could be cut. Buried Alive, Entomb, Jarad's Orders, Greater Good, Survival of the Fittest, Altar of Dementia, and maybe Loam (if you need it) generate more than enough graveyard fuel, and tutors enable that you get them. You've also got a handful of instants and sorceries that I don't get; does the squirrel one combo? It doesn't seem like a great combo, and playing it as fuel for Skullclamp is questionable. Either one could be replaced with a large multitude of cards that would generate more reliable draw.
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BUG Tasigur GUB
#buglyfe
I have played the card in the past. Ultimately it was cut along with Birthing Pod (the first time around). I could consider testing it again, but honestly since the inclusion of Graveborn Muse, I haven't felt the need for more card draw. By the way, double-flinging Koko with Mike out is 23 life - Mike is an anthem effect as well as the undying.
@DTrain, I pretty much agree with Avvina's critique. Fleshbag Marauder is actually something I completely understand and have been thinking about running, but other than that I think he hit the nail right on the head.
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Check out my competitive Momir Vig Toolbox Combo Deck
I hear you. I'll test it.
Seedtime is pretty bad... not an effect I need.
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Working on including a budget section in the second post of the thread.
Again, any suggestions?
Might get an Imperial Seal sometime this winter.
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I'm not a fan of Liliana Vess either. 5 mana for a tutor is quite expensive, especially for one that only goes to the top of your library at sorcery speed, and most times I have seen her played she only got to tutor once before someone killed her. I think I'd much rather playing something like Increasing Ambition in a deck like this, but I probably wouldn't end up playing that card either. If you get an Imperial Seal I'd easily replace Liliana with it.
I was actually skimming through your list again and realized that I could basically be playing your exact deck aside from the Mana Crypt if I wanted. Any suggestions for what card would replace Crypt if I wanted to give it a try?
As far as my own list, I was thinking about putting in Scroll Rack, probably in place of Night's Whisper. Other cards I want to replace are Nighthowler, Golgari Signet, and Gilded Lotus. I'll probably replace the rocks with land ramp, since most of the players in my meta refuse to play with or against mass land destruction. I also want to put Green Sun's Zenith and Dryad Arbor back in, so I'll see where that leaves me. Having a creature on a land gives the deck a lot of added flexibility that I think is worth the occasional tempo hit.
GUB [Retired Primer] The Mimeoplasm BUG
Modern: UR Storm RU
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Like I said, Pattern of Rebirth is in testing. It's been pretty nice so far. Maybe it's better for me just because Baleful Force is good for me. I'll tell you how I feel when I've played it an appropriate amount. As for Liliana Vess, that card has been veeerry good. I think it's earned a permanent slot in the list. Usually I can get off two tutors, but if creatures are swinging into her, half the time if they weren't they'd be at me, so it's not all bad. I've played Increasing Ambition before and it's not as good. I'd replace Mana Crypt with another mana dork, I guess. It's the speediest ramp I don't play. Maybe Elves of Deep Shadow. By the way, if you're playing less than seven fetches, don't play Deathrite Shaman. Those changes in your list all seem pretty solid.
So here's the best way to explain it. Necrotic Ooze inherits these abilities:
It doesn't inherit the sacrifice clause from Devourer or the ETB effect on Triskelion. Those aren't activated abilities. So all you do is you exile the top card of your library repeatedly with Phyrexian Devourer, resolving that ability, and then removing the counters with Triskelion's ability to deal damage. It's more simple than the Phy Devourer + Jarad combo, which I talk about in my primer in-depth.
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GUB [Retired Primer] The Mimeoplasm BUG
Modern: UR Storm RU
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Also, since Tempt With Discovery works well in your group, you might consider adding Dark Depths, Thespian's Stage, Crop Rotation, and Vampire Hexmage.
Haha. Attacking for combat damage isn't something I want to be doing with this gameplan. I've played P Deed in the past and really it was a bit slow, I also don't need more sweepers / removal right now. I wwill test deed, though.
Wasn't looking at your deck about the fetches, just kind of spitballing.
About PWs and Baleful Force. PWs take the majority of the combat damage when they're in play but honestly outside of a few decks most decks don't run that many creatures, certainly not ones they play for the combat damage. I think the fact that I'm a combo meta is the underlying reason for both effects. Baleful Force certainly eats removal... as long as they're confidant they're not losing to the Palinchron combo next turn. Most players don't play aggressive combat-oriented creatures because their wincons are two card combos, not battleship magic or combat damage, so they don't have those creatures to attack Planeswalkers.
Just had a real nutty win. I'm at a table of five, with myself, Nin, Avvina piloting a friend's Momir Vig, Narset, and that friend piloting Avvina's Sharuum. I was doing jack-all with a lowly Hermit Druid in play until I topdeck Tempt with Discovery. I have Urborg in play, so I cast it and find Coffers. I find Strip Mine, and threaten to strip the Narset player if he doesn't search - he's off white. Nin decides she wants to search too - presumably to combo off next turn - and Sharuum searches Strip Mine to kill my Urborg. Too bad for him, he'll never have the chance. I'm pretty happy about this and tutor three basic lands out of my deck. Thanks, Hermit Druid! I turn HD sideways and mill a good 40 or so cards, and proceed to cast Living Death, and the Sharuum player removes the Lord of Extinction from my grave (I was representing lethal with it). I reanimate (among other things) Mike, Trike, Necrotic Ooze, Sakura-Tribe Elder, Crypt Ghast. I play land two for turn and try and M&T to kill. Undying on the stack, Chaos Warp targets Mike. With that on the stack, I sac Steve. With THAT on the stack, I sac Ooze to the Steve ability, and it undies. I remove the counter using Trike's ability. Sac as Steve. Remove as Trike. Kill table.
Tempt is real nutty.
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