After having the Beacon sit in hand again and again without being cast, and considering that it suffers from the same recursion problems, it seemed like a reasonable choice to cut. Guardian Beast is a solid artifact protector that can also be sacrificed for mana if I need it for a kickstart of a combo (or to cast a win condition).
Archfiend of Depravity: This card appears solid for the control side of the build. I’m currently replacing Bloodgift Demon with the Archfiend; I’ll see how it plays out.
Crux of Fate: As far as wraths go, this might be an okay budget option. 5 mana is too much for me for a wrath, though
Dark Deal: I’ve seen a lot of negative responses for this card. I’m not enthused enough by it to run it; its use would be too niche for my build, but in the appropriate reanimator mono-B build, this could be okay.
Hero’s Blade: In a more aggro-focused Xiahou Dun list, I’d totally see a spot for this.
Merciless Executioner: Fleshbag Marauder is solid in the right list. I think this guy has a lot of potential, though it doesn’t quite fit in this list as essentially a 3-mana Innocent Blood.
Palace Siege: The Khans mode has potential. In some respects, I prefer it to Dawn of the Dead. The Dragons mode… is rather unimpressive as far as life drain effects go. Though it’s clearly partially EDH-oriented with that “each” in there. All that said, at 5 mana, this doesn’t do enough quickly enough for its cost for this deck.
Scroll of the Masters: I’m actually kinda tempted by this card… But I’d be actually considering it more seriously if it were colored black, rather than an artifact. Again, potentially solid for the aggro builds.
Swamp: This card is OP and should be an auto-include in any deck. What a broken format staple.
Tasigur’s Cruelty: I generally would be exiling 4 cards. That said, I didn’t really like Murderous Cut, and this effect is a little more fringe than that for my decklist. There’s probably a discard-control player rejoicing over this card, though.
Ugin, the Spirit Dragon: The abilities are good, if only the mana cost wasn’t so high. I would prefer Karn Liberated for this list, and I’m not even running Karn Liberated between the mana cost and the limited (for me) use.
I'm slowly piecing together your list, as I really like it. I hope you don't mind. May end up going with a few tweaks here and there, however.
No problem! In fact, I'd encourage it. I'll probably try to add even more detail in to the original post some point soon. I also need to acquire and test a Silence the Believers, though I'm currently finding Tawnos's Coffin more appealing. I may test Arcbound Reclaimer as well, if I can get my hands on one.
Can you elaborate on Bloodghast and Nether Traitor? Those cards are nowhere in your additional sections. Not saying you should run them, yet I could see them fit the theme.
Still in the process of building a similar list, can't wait to try it!
I'm getting a good chunk of the higher end stuff (Confidant, Chains, Abyss, Tutor, etc) in a big trade so I should have it all built in the next couple of weeks. I'm excited to play it!
Sure. I'm not currently running Bloodghast due to a lack of utility. Without a direct combo with him; he'd just be another dude, in which case I can do better. Maybe in the future, though. Nether Traitor has some of the same issues, though it has a little more utility. That said, Reassembling Skeleton currently serves its same role a little better with or without a combo.
Those cards are nowhere in your additional sections. Not saying you should run them, yet I could see them fit the theme.
I should be updating the original post some time soon; I plan to submit an app for primer status shortly. I'll make sure to include some variation on my explanation for them. Though the primer committee is currently a bit inactive due to technical difficulties. (That said, to anyone reading this, feel free to submit primers anyways.)
I'm getting a good chunk of the higher end stuff (Confidant, Chains, Abyss, Tutor, etc) in a big trade so I should have it all built in the next couple of weeks. I'm excited to play it!
I look forward to seeing your respective lists and hearing about how it went!
Feel free to comment on those edits, I'm still in the process of assembling the deck so I've done 0 playtest yet. Some of the swaps were done because I own the cards.
My wrath effect of choice is generally Kagemaro, First to Suffer, mainly because of Corpse Dance. But in general, creatures are easier to recur than a sorcery.
What about Anvil of Bogardan? Provides a lock from drawing cards with Chains. If you have any black draw spell in your graveyard, you can easily pull ahead by reusing it with your general.
My personal pet card in mono black is Infernal Tribute. It's a sacrifice outlet and card draw engine that increases your devotion and can also get rid of Necropotence in a pinch. It also has mild combo potential with Oubliette and Tawnos's Coffin.
Grim Discovery is currently the only mono black card that can return lands, which is good since you can return it with your general.
You only have 2-3 creatures with an ETB effect, so you might want to consider Torpor Orb as a strong piece of hate.
Another pet card of mine is Imp's Mischief. It's admittedly a little narrow but kind of a blowout when it works, and can be recurred.
I have considered it for a while now, and may test it out, but for now, I'm leaving it out on the side. I think that while it's nice and all, it's a bit awkward for my deck as far as combos go.
I hadn't really considered him, but I think Mutilate fills that role better, and Mutilate is already kinda an edge spot in terms of wrath effects, to some degree.
People keep on suggesting this. I like the card, actually. But I don't think it really fits into the deck. It is a little too likely to backfire, or otherwise perform badly, I feel.
My comment on this (I may add a little more) was that it is too mana intensive, and I stand by that. While it's a fine effect and all, I feel that there is clearly better in both the sac outlet and draw outlet sorts of cards. Maybe in a more budget or mana-intensive version. I do like the O-Ring loophole interactions, but I think those are only so worth it once you're spending a lot of mana to do them repeatedly.
This card is fine and all, though if it either returned to battlefield, or did more than just Xiahou Dun himself most of the time, I would be a little more enthsued.
This shuts off two combo dudes, one of which is realistically the most notable combo creature... and Gary. As much as I adore Torpor Orb, I feel that this is the wrong deck for it.
"Not enough creatures in the current build to really use this card effectively, but it is decent for mono-black control decks." I like the synergy with Bitterblossom et al, but I get plenty of that from some of my other cards. Contamination also draws a ton of hate. We'll see. I'm still a little dubious.
But in general, creatures are easier to recur than a sorcery.
With anything other than XHD himself. With reanimation spells, certainly, though I can also just save my reanimation to use on XHD. Besides, more creatures means more ability to use those creatures against me...
If Word of Command plays out ideally, I'll be able to use it to redirect artifact/enchantment removal. Though most of that is instant speed, so it might be a little questionable in that respect. I like how the mana restriction prevents shenanigans with crushing one's own board, though. I'd also probably enjoy using it to cast other players' wrath effects. I may ask what they want me to cast (in non-obvious cases) first, though, to see if I support that plan over messing things up for them or someone else. Oh, and failing to find on tutors could also be amusing. I'm very much looking forward to when I am playing against someone and get to cast this. *Evil laughter ensues*
I had a really funny situation the other day where it was down to me and one other player. My opponent had gained 100 life off of Ajani, Mentor of Heroes' ult and had all indestructible permanents off of Elspeth, Knight-Errant's ult. I was in the process of trying to mill him to death utilizing my Geth, Lord of the Vault utilizing some big mana off of a few coffers I had in play.
My opponent draws his card for the turn making his hand size 2 based on a card he was holding back. I cast Word of Command before the draw phase ends.
My opponent reveals Akroma's Vengeance (drawn that turn) and Mystic Barrier (useless due to just being the two of us). I force him to cast his Mystic Barrier utilizing ONLY white producing lands leaving him with no white for his turn. He passes turn and I was able to mill him to death thanks to that. It bought me essentially a full turn due to my quick thinking lol.
I was just curious if you had gotten to use it yet.
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I have officially moved to MTGNexus. I just wanted to let people know as my response time to salvation decks being bumped is very hit or miss.
If Word of Command plays out ideally, I'll be able to use it to redirect artifact/enchantment removal. Though most of that is instant speed, so it might be a little questionable in that respect. I like how the mana restriction prevents shenanigans with crushing one's own board, though. I'd also probably enjoy using it to cast other players' wrath effects. I may ask what they want me to cast (in non-obvious cases) first, though, to see if I support that plan over messing things up for them or someone else. Oh, and failing to find on tutors could also be amusing. I'm very much looking forward to when I am playing against someone and get to cast this. *Evil laughter ensues*
I had a really funny situation the other day where it was down to me and one other player. My opponent had gained 100 life off of Ajani, Mentor of Heroes' ult and had all indestructible permanents off of Elspeth, Knight-Errant's ult. I was in the process of trying to mill him to death utilizing my Geth, Lord of the Vault utilizing some big mana off of a few coffers I had in play.
My opponent draws his card for the turn making his hand size 2 based on a card he was holding back. I cast Word of Command before the draw phase ends.
My opponent reveals Akroma's Vengeance (drawn that turn) and Mystic Barrier (useless due to just being the two of us). I force him to cast his Mystic Barrier utilizing ONLY white producing lands leaving him with no white for his turn. He passes turn and I was able to mill him to death thanks to that. It bought me essentially a full turn due to my quick thinking lol.
I was just curious if you had gotten to use it yet.
Nope. I'll probably try to get a few games in some evening during the week or some time on Saturday evening/Sunday with XHD, though. It's been a little while.
I'm actually looking forward to a 5-drop for once, though...
If Word of Command plays out ideally, I'll be able to use it to redirect artifact/enchantment removal. Though most of that is instant speed, so it might be a little questionable in that respect. I like how the mana restriction prevents shenanigans with crushing one's own board, though. I'd also probably enjoy using it to cast other players' wrath effects. I may ask what they want me to cast (in non-obvious cases) first, though, to see if I support that plan over messing things up for them or someone else. Oh, and failing to find on tutors could also be amusing. I'm very much looking forward to when I am playing against someone and get to cast this. *Evil laughter ensues*
I had a really funny situation the other day where it was down to me and one other player. My opponent had gained 100 life off of Ajani, Mentor of Heroes' ult and had all indestructible permanents off of Elspeth, Knight-Errant's ult. I was in the process of trying to mill him to death utilizing my Geth, Lord of the Vault utilizing some big mana off of a few coffers I had in play.
My opponent draws his card for the turn making his hand size 2 based on a card he was holding back. I cast Word of Command before the draw phase ends.
My opponent reveals Akroma's Vengeance (drawn that turn) and Mystic Barrier (useless due to just being the two of us). I force him to cast his Mystic Barrier utilizing ONLY white producing lands leaving him with no white for his turn. He passes turn and I was able to mill him to death thanks to that. It bought me essentially a full turn due to my quick thinking lol.
I was just curious if you had gotten to use it yet.
Nope. I'll probably try to get a few games in some evening during the week or some time on Saturday evening/Sunday with XHD, though. It's been a little while.
I'm actually looking forward to a 5-drop for once, though...
If Word of Command plays out ideally, I'll be able to use it to redirect artifact/enchantment removal. Though most of that is instant speed, so it might be a little questionable in that respect. I like how the mana restriction prevents shenanigans with crushing one's own board, though. I'd also probably enjoy using it to cast other players' wrath effects. I may ask what they want me to cast (in non-obvious cases) first, though, to see if I support that plan over messing things up for them or someone else. Oh, and failing to find on tutors could also be amusing. I'm very much looking forward to when I am playing against someone and get to cast this. *Evil laughter ensues*
I had a really funny situation the other day where it was down to me and one other player. My opponent had gained 100 life off of Ajani, Mentor of Heroes' ult and had all indestructible permanents off of Elspeth, Knight-Errant's ult. I was in the process of trying to mill him to death utilizing my Geth, Lord of the Vault utilizing some big mana off of a few coffers I had in play.
My opponent draws his card for the turn making his hand size 2 based on a card he was holding back. I cast Word of Command before the draw phase ends.
My opponent reveals Akroma's Vengeance (drawn that turn) and Mystic Barrier (useless due to just being the two of us). I force him to cast his Mystic Barrier utilizing ONLY white producing lands leaving him with no white for his turn. He passes turn and I was able to mill him to death thanks to that. It bought me essentially a full turn due to my quick thinking lol.
I was just curious if you had gotten to use it yet.
Nope. I'll probably try to get a few games in some evening during the week or some time on Saturday evening/Sunday with XHD, though. It's been a little while.
I'm actually looking forward to a 5-drop for once, though...
The new Sidisi I assume?
Yeah, it seems reasonably promising. I'll probably run it over Archfiend, but I'm not 100% certain yet.
Unfortunately played against Teferi so didn't get good results.
Kinda at a loss for how I should be playing him. Should I tutor for a stronghold as the first thing? Or do i just attempt to piece together a combo and hope for the best?
-Beacon of Unrest
+Guardian Beast.
After having the Beacon sit in hand again and again without being cast, and considering that it suffers from the same recursion problems, it seemed like a reasonable choice to cut. Guardian Beast is a solid artifact protector that can also be sacrificed for mana if I need it for a kickstart of a combo (or to cast a win condition).
[EDH Non-Primers] Newzuri | Breya
No problem! In fact, I'd encourage it. I'll probably try to add even more detail in to the original post some point soon. I also need to acquire and test a Silence the Believers, though I'm currently finding Tawnos's Coffin more appealing. I may test Arcbound Reclaimer as well, if I can get my hands on one.
Still in the process of building a similar list, can't wait to try it!
[EDH Non-Primers] Newzuri | Breya
Sure. I'm not currently running Bloodghast due to a lack of utility. Without a direct combo with him; he'd just be another dude, in which case I can do better. Maybe in the future, though. Nether Traitor has some of the same issues, though it has a little more utility. That said, Reassembling Skeleton currently serves its same role a little better with or without a combo.
I should be updating the original post some time soon; I plan to submit an app for primer status shortly. I'll make sure to include some variation on my explanation for them. Though the primer committee is currently a bit inactive due to technical difficulties. (That said, to anyone reading this, feel free to submit primers anyways.)
I look forward to seeing your respective lists and hearing about how it went!
-Guardian Beast
-Word of Command
+Black Sun's Zenith
+Killing Wave
Mostly because I need more mass removal as there are a lot of swarming strategies here.
[EDH Non-Primers] Newzuri | Breya
And I'd really like to use the full art Killing Wave. 😜
[EDH Non-Primers] Newzuri | Breya
I see. Hm. Infest? Bile Blight? One of the split second spells?
[EDH Non-Primers] Newzuri | Breya
-Guardian Beast don't have the card right now, might try it in the future
-Hero's Downfall
-Damnation Sold mine expecting a reprint soon, will make it back in once reprinted
-Myriad Landscape
-Archfiend of Depravity
-Tawno's Coffin
-Grim Tutor too expensive for now
-Mana Crypt same as above
-Slaughter Pact might make it back
+Bloodchief Ascension seems cool for the life gain + amazing with chains
+Silence the Believers Exiling is so much better than destroying in my meta
+Sudden Death Prophet hate
+Living Death
+Barter in Blood Still not sure about this one, maybe archfiend is better, will see later
+Black Sun's Zenith Replacing Damnation
+Diamond Valley
+Trading Post
+Nether Traitor Might get cut, not sure yet
Feel free to comment on those edits, I'm still in the process of assembling the deck so I've done 0 playtest yet. Some of the swaps were done because I own the cards.
My wrath effect of choice is generally Kagemaro, First to Suffer, mainly because of Corpse Dance. But in general, creatures are easier to recur than a sorcery.
What about Anvil of Bogardan? Provides a lock from drawing cards with Chains. If you have any black draw spell in your graveyard, you can easily pull ahead by reusing it with your general.
My personal pet card in mono black is Infernal Tribute. It's a sacrifice outlet and card draw engine that increases your devotion and can also get rid of Necropotence in a pinch. It also has mild combo potential with Oubliette and Tawnos's Coffin.
Grim Discovery is currently the only mono black card that can return lands, which is good since you can return it with your general.
You only have 2-3 creatures with an ETB effect, so you might want to consider Torpor Orb as a strong piece of hate.
Another pet card of mine is Imp's Mischief. It's admittedly a little narrow but kind of a blowout when it works, and can be recurred.
You might also want to make room for Thawing Glaciers. Good in a mono colored control deck, and interacts favorably with Rings of Brighthearth and Deserted Temple.
Anyway, cool deck. Hopefully some of these suggestions can help.
Edit: I almost forgot. If you're running Bitterblossom and the Skeleton, Contamination is a pseudo lock and borderline obnoxious.
Unless I read the card wrong, I think you are confusing Grim Monolith with Basalt Monolith which is already in the decklist.
I have considered it for a while now, and may test it out, but for now, I'm leaving it out on the side. I think that while it's nice and all, it's a bit awkward for my deck as far as combos go.
I hadn't really considered him, but I think Mutilate fills that role better, and Mutilate is already kinda an edge spot in terms of wrath effects, to some degree.
People keep on suggesting this. I like the card, actually. But I don't think it really fits into the deck. It is a little too likely to backfire, or otherwise perform badly, I feel.
My comment on this (I may add a little more) was that it is too mana intensive, and I stand by that. While it's a fine effect and all, I feel that there is clearly better in both the sac outlet and draw outlet sorts of cards. Maybe in a more budget or mana-intensive version. I do like the O-Ring loophole interactions, but I think those are only so worth it once you're spending a lot of mana to do them repeatedly.
This card is fine and all, though if it either returned to battlefield, or did more than just Xiahou Dun himself most of the time, I would be a little more enthsued.
This shuts off two combo dudes, one of which is realistically the most notable combo creature... and Gary. As much as I adore Torpor Orb, I feel that this is the wrong deck for it.
Imp's Mischief is actually in my physical pile of cards to test in my next iteration of testing for the deck. I should be trying it out soon.
Maybe. I feel like it's a little underwhelming for the deck without Rings out, but it might be a reasonable choice.
"Not enough creatures in the current build to really use this card effectively, but it is decent for mono-black control decks." I like the synergy with Bitterblossom et al, but I get plenty of that from some of my other cards. Contamination also draws a ton of hate. We'll see. I'm still a little dubious.
With anything other than XHD himself. With reanimation spells, certainly, though I can also just save my reanimation to use on XHD. Besides, more creatures means more ability to use those creatures against me...
Thanks! I look forward to seeing more ideas.
It isn't, actually... see my earlier statement in this comment.
Have you gotten a chance to test Word of Command yet?
I had a really funny situation the other day where it was down to me and one other player. My opponent had gained 100 life off of Ajani, Mentor of Heroes' ult and had all indestructible permanents off of Elspeth, Knight-Errant's ult. I was in the process of trying to mill him to death utilizing my Geth, Lord of the Vault utilizing some big mana off of a few coffers I had in play.
My opponent draws his card for the turn making his hand size 2 based on a card he was holding back. I cast Word of Command before the draw phase ends.
My opponent reveals Akroma's Vengeance (drawn that turn) and Mystic Barrier (useless due to just being the two of us). I force him to cast his Mystic Barrier utilizing ONLY white producing lands leaving him with no white for his turn. He passes turn and I was able to mill him to death thanks to that. It bought me essentially a full turn due to my quick thinking lol.
I was just curious if you had gotten to use it yet.
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[Modern] Allies
Nope. I'll probably try to get a few games in some evening during the week or some time on Saturday evening/Sunday with XHD, though. It's been a little while.
I'm actually looking forward to a 5-drop for once, though...
The new Sidisi I assume?
[EDH Non-Primers] Newzuri | Breya
Yeah, it seems reasonably promising. I'll probably run it over Archfiend, but I'm not 100% certain yet.
[EDH Non-Primers] Newzuri | Breya
I kinda dislike Dawn of the Dead. It has the common problem of being a high cost enchantment that doesn't do anything for a full round.
Unfortunately played against Teferi so didn't get good results.
Kinda at a loss for how I should be playing him. Should I tutor for a stronghold as the first thing? Or do i just attempt to piece together a combo and hope for the best?
[EDH Non-Primers] Newzuri | Breya