Grafdigger's Cage is a hard one in general for mono-black. If you know to expect it, you can use Sadistic Sacrament and its ilk. (I really wish that WotC could print an EDH-favorable exile effect other than Bitter Ordeal.)
Torpor Orb is one of those cards that you either respond to like a resolved Iona, or the same way as I mentioned with Grafdigger's Cage.
Here is my build based on yours. Some of the choices are meta calls like Cabal Therapy and Oblivion Stone. Number prefix is CMC, except for basic swamp.
I always like looking over people's XHD lists and thinking about why they made certain choices.
I'm guessing Maze of Ith is a meta choice to dampen creature aggro.
I worry about Oblivion Stone because your artifacts are so crucial to you and not as easy to recur. That said, it's a reasonable anti-meta choice against creatures and stuff like Iona.
Let me know how useful Blood Funnel is; I really liked it for a short while, but it started to become less and less helpful over time.
Diabolic Edict … You sure? Not Chainer's Edict? Keep in mind, most of the time you don't care about Sorcery vs Instant, unlike most competitive decks, since you do a lot of your work on your turn.
Are most of your games 1v1? Otherwise Sinkhole, while cool, seems meh.
I think for the mana cost, at the point where you're screwing someone over with Mind Twist, you might as well run one of the 5 mana mass handshaping/mass discard spells instead. It's a hard card to analyze, because while it can be powerful, it provides inherently lower expected value in multiplayer.
If you can get ahold of her, I might suggest running Liliana of the Dark Realms as a budgetish removal and otherwise somewhat useful planeswalker. She's obviously no Liliana of the Veil, but you win some, you lose some. I think she would slot in well for you, despite you going my route and not following the big-mana black focus. My commentary on her was not the greatest before, but I'm slowly going through and updating some of my comments to be a little more fair to reasonable budget cards.
Noosegraf Mob is an awesome inclusion. I wish I had thought of that back when EMN came out; I think I was dismissive on it based on mana cost (and still would probably squirm away from it for that reason in my build). I also think you have a better slot for it than I do, but it's mostly just a very commendable card choice. Cool.
I see you also have a soft spot for Gonti. I love that card and might go as far as to test him in this deck.
Maze is a concession to the presence of equipment based voltron decks in my meta.
O-Stone is mainly there for the plethora of Artifact/Enchantress/Superfriends decks that have popped up since C16 dropped.
Edict has been performing well overall and I can't find my FTV Chainer's Edict atm so it will probably stay for now.
I play a fair amount of 1v1, but I decided since I shelled out for a Beta sinkhole that I should use it in something until I start building my DC Braids deck. It's also my flex slot so I tend to put test pieces in to try things that I normally wouldn't consider.
Mind Twist has been amazing in my meta, there are a lot of U/x decks and having that weapon has won games.
Currently with the influx of Atraxa Superfriends lists my meta has become very hostile to 'walkers in general. I will put in a Veil when I pick one up, but Dark Realms has never done well for me. I'll test it out and get back with a clearer opinion.
The mob has been a great role player for me, more so than Geth, Sheoldred, Mindslicer and Gonti. It's easily reanimated and churns out a steady stream of speedbumps or a near endless swarm of zombies on occasion.
On average its 3-4. With rits, rocks and cost reducers emptying an opponent's hand is really quick. Managed to turn 4 twist for x=7 vs grixis storm then bog away their gas. I've tried Mind Slicer and Monomania, with this build it actually becomes too easy to hellbent lock the table.
Painful Lesson: I'll have to think about this more, but it might be a consideration. I think the number of slots for this sort of card may be just too few for this.
The combo i play most and that isnt discussed here is shifting morality with xiahou out, recur songs of the damned then make a loop with corpse dance and go infinite. Its real easy you should consider it.
Morality Shift is a card that in most of the metas I've been in would be incredibly risky and often sit in my hand doing nothing, unfortunately.
Also living death is sick. I use it ass board whipe and sometimes just for rexurssion. Also with 5 or more guys in gy plus p. Altar creates either gravestorm or infinite mana with xiahou.
Living Death is a card I always consider, but I never have enough creatures in graveyard to make it work effectively as recursion. And as a wrath it costs more than the deck normally wants to spend. It would likely be better with a shift towards more creatures, especially those that come with tokens, such as Sengir Autocrat.
I've found that the scry, while potentially helpful, is generally not effective enough. I could see it being useful if I'm trying to draw a win condition, but most of the time I already have a tutor at that point.
Just realized I never did an Hour of Devastation review... Here goes:
Bontu's Last Reckoning - While it is no Toxic Deluge, this is still a 3 mana wrath. I may at least test this, though its downside may be too high in the long term.
Razaketh, the Foulblooded - While the reanimation plan has generally not worked out amazingly for me, and Razaketh is too costly to run otherwise, this card is still very good. In heavier big-mana decks, I would run this in a heartbeat. Unless I focus more on reanimation, I'm unlikely to run it myself.
Ifnir Deadlands - I like this card a lot, but I think 4 might be high enough for the low-impact of the effect that I'm better off with a Swamp.
Scavenger Grounds - This is a card to look out for in opponents' decks. If you're facing up against a lot of opposing graveyard combo decks and need to run more of a control build, go for it. I think I'm avoiding it in this build, though.
I've been mulling over Bloodforged Battle-Axe. It seems strong but a bit slow, however in a format with so much more grave hate I think it could be an interesting alt-win con with XHD or Grave Titan. I doubt it will do much but I will test it and report back with any conclusive data.
Cards I've tested lately: Imperial Seal - I really want to love this card. The effect is powerful, the flavor is great, but this card suffers from being a sorcery.
Ill-Gotten Gains - In early turns or with Leyline this is a back breaking card. Sadly it doesn't do enough here.
Sinkhole - In metas with important and broken lands this can shine and we have the ability to recur in and take one or more opponents out of the game. However using it can cause undue aggression from certain types of players, and make it not worth the inclusion.
Gonti, Lord of Luxury - Gonti is a unique effect and when coupled with instant speed recursion can steal games. I found that he makes you want to durdle and slows down the game quite a bit. YMMV.
Cards Currently in deck but untested as of right now: Torment of Hailfire - I really like this card. It's effect is unique and game changing, however XBB is a steep cost and has diminishing returns against token swarms. Hopefully the ability to cast it multiple times and out attrition the table will be worth it.
Bontu's Last Reckoning - This is the definition of weapon of last resort. The trade off can at times buy political favor if you save the table with it. Cheap board wipes can either be really good or really bad. I guess we find out where this one ends up.
Imperial Seal - I really want to love this card. The effect is powerful, the flavor is great, but this card suffers from being a sorcery.
If you don't want that bad card, I'm very willing to take it off your hands! I have generally found that this deck does not care much about the sorcery instant distinction in a lot of cases, though maybe this is different.
Sinkhole - In metas with important and broken lands this can shine and we have the ability to recur in and take one or more opponents out of the game. However using it can cause undue aggression from certain types of players, and make it not worth the inclusion.
Sinkhole is a card which I always like running but slots out easily.
My Imperial Seal is just a nice proxy I was using to test, not a real one.
Hopefully I can get some games in tomorrow and have some testing data to share.
@BlackVise: Hopefully I'll have some experience with this card, so far I haven't found myself in a situation where I needed it and I haven't drawn it in the few games I've been able to play.
I'm really not that interested in the Unstable "celebration" ... I love the Un-sets (well, I love the first two, and I somewhat like the third one too), but I don't think this is the right way to do things, and I don't want to spend money on uncards when I'm barely playing the game anyways.
Mastermind's Acquisition - Neither effect is good enough on its own at 4 mana. But your choice of either? Sure, testing. Pitiless Plunderer - Again, I don't like that it's 4 mana, but Pitiless Plunderer looks pretty good. Testing. Twilight Prophet - Ascend is probably not strong enough in context, but the card is solid. Testing. Vona's Hunger - I like the card, but I'm not quite feeling it at the moment. We'll see. Pass for now.
Sadly, I'm barely playing this deck any more. I no longer carry it on me. So I'm going to retire the primer status, but I will update things as appropriate to my interest in thinking about it.
I think Cabal Stronghold is viable in certain decks. If the list on the first page is the vantage point from which you're evaluating the card, then yes its not very good. If one is running more basics and using the mana doubling artifacts and other incentives to use a basic heavy mana base it seems okay. Its obviously not as good as Coffers or even Nykthos.
Sadly, I'm barely playing this deck any more. I no longer carry it on me. So I'm going to retire the primer status, but I will update things as appropriate to my interest in thinking about it.
Sorry to hear that looks like an awesome deck! I’m looking for inspiration for my Xiahou Dun deck, how come you’ve stopped playing with it? Do you think it would be a big change to make more control focused?
Sadly, I'm barely playing this deck any more. I no longer carry it on me. So I'm going to retire the primer status, but I will update things as appropriate to my interest in thinking about it.
Sorry to hear that looks like an awesome deck! I’m looking for inspiration for my Xiahou Dun deck, how come you’ve stopped playing with it? Do you think it would be a big change to make more control focused?
At this point I carry it again, but I only play Magic a single digit number of times per year due to work and moving...
It wouldn't be too hard to make more of a control shell.
Thanks for the response. Would be great to hear what sort of high level changes you would make to make it more controlling. My XHD arrived yesterday, really excited to start building!
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Torpor Orb is one of those cards that you either respond to like a resolved Iona, or the same way as I mentioned with Grafdigger's Cage.
Maze is a concession to the presence of equipment based voltron decks in my meta.
O-Stone is mainly there for the plethora of Artifact/Enchantress/Superfriends decks that have popped up since C16 dropped.
Edict has been performing well overall and I can't find my FTV Chainer's Edict atm so it will probably stay for now.
I play a fair amount of 1v1, but I decided since I shelled out for a Beta sinkhole that I should use it in something until I start building my DC Braids deck. It's also my flex slot so I tend to put test pieces in to try things that I normally wouldn't consider.
Mind Twist has been amazing in my meta, there are a lot of U/x decks and having that weapon has won games.
Currently with the influx of Atraxa Superfriends lists my meta has become very hostile to 'walkers in general. I will put in a Veil when I pick one up, but Dark Realms has never done well for me. I'll test it out and get back with a clearer opinion.
The mob has been a great role player for me, more so than Geth, Sheoldred, Mindslicer and Gonti. It's easily reanimated and churns out a steady stream of speedbumps or a near endless swarm of zombies on occasion.
B Xiahou Dun, The One Eyed Control/Combo
B Gonti, Lord of Luxury Casual funstuff
UBRG Ydris, Maelstrom Wielder Control/Chaos
R Pia Nalaar Artifact fun
WBRG Saskia the Unyielding Human Tribal
WUBR Breya, Etherium Sculptor Pauper control
How much do you normally cast it for?
My thought process:
X=1-2: Distress or Hymn to Tourach is better.
X=3: This is an interesting one. If there's a skew here, this card fulfills a unique role.
X=4-5: Maybe Monomania, Mindslicer, or Head Games.
X=6+: Wit's End is better.
If you can find and afford it, Word of Command is pretty decent against U/X decks.
B Xiahou Dun, The One Eyed Control/Combo
B Gonti, Lord of Luxury Casual funstuff
UBRG Ydris, Maelstrom Wielder Control/Chaos
R Pia Nalaar Artifact fun
WBRG Saskia the Unyielding Human Tribal
WUBR Breya, Etherium Sculptor Pauper control
Archfiend of Ifnir: Some mono-black control decks will like this card. I do not.
Cruel Reality: This card is gorgeous… for a deck with more mana to spend on it. If this cost 3BB, I'd probably run it in a heartbeat.
Liliana, Death's Majesty: Well, she's not bad. Certainly better than Liliana, Heretical Flop. Still, I think I'll stick with 3-mana (or maybe 4-mana) Liliana(s) for now.
Painful Lesson: I'll have to think about this more, but it might be a consideration. I think the number of slots for this sort of card may be just too few for this.
Never // Return: The marginal improvement on Hero's Downfall is not worth the fact that this spell is much worse than Hero's Downfall… In a deck that isn't running Dark Confidant and absolutely needs Return as an effect, maybe… But it's not for me.
Bontu's Monument: I like this card. We'll see if it's solid enough. Almost certainly at least going to test this.
Gate to the Afterlife: Worth a test, but I'm thinking that the fact that it's an artifact hurts it too much for what it does.
Some of the combos are certainly better than others.
Morality Shift is a card that in most of the metas I've been in would be incredibly risky and often sit in my hand doing nothing, unfortunately.
Living Death is a card I always consider, but I never have enough creatures in graveyard to make it work effectively as recursion. And as a wrath it costs more than the deck normally wants to spend. It would likely be better with a shift towards more creatures, especially those that come with tokens, such as Sengir Autocrat.
I've found that the scry, while potentially helpful, is generally not effective enough. I could see it being useful if I'm trying to draw a win condition, but most of the time I already have a tutor at that point.
Cards I've tested lately:
Imperial Seal - I really want to love this card. The effect is powerful, the flavor is great, but this card suffers from being a sorcery.
Ill-Gotten Gains - In early turns or with Leyline this is a back breaking card. Sadly it doesn't do enough here.
Sinkhole - In metas with important and broken lands this can shine and we have the ability to recur in and take one or more opponents out of the game. However using it can cause undue aggression from certain types of players, and make it not worth the inclusion.
Gonti, Lord of Luxury - Gonti is a unique effect and when coupled with instant speed recursion can steal games. I found that he makes you want to durdle and slows down the game quite a bit. YMMV.
Cards Currently in deck but untested as of right now:
Torment of Hailfire - I really like this card. It's effect is unique and game changing, however XBB is a steep cost and has diminishing returns against token swarms. Hopefully the ability to cast it multiple times and out attrition the table will be worth it.
Bontu's Last Reckoning - This is the definition of weapon of last resort. The trade off can at times buy political favor if you save the table with it. Cheap board wipes can either be really good or really bad. I guess we find out where this one ends up.
Updated list as of right now:
4 Xiahou Dun, the One-Eyed
Land:
16 Swamp
0 Phyrexian Tower
0 Strip Mine
0 Bojuka Bog
0 Ancient Tomb
0 Buried Ruin
0 High Market
0 Volrath's Stronghold
0 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
0 Cabal Coffers
0 Nykthos,Shrine to Nyx
0 Deserted Temple
0 Wasteland
0 Lake of the Dead
0 Myriad Landscape
0 Maze of Ith
0 Polluted Delta
0 Marsh Flats
0 Bloodstained Mire
0 Verdant Catacombs
Artifact:
3 Rings of Brighthearth
1 Skullclamp
2 Nim Deathmantle
3 Ashnod's Altar
3 Oblivion Stone
4 Helm of Obedience
0 Mana Crypt
1 Sol Ring
3 Crucible of Worlds
3 Phyrexian Altar
2 Jet Medallion
3 Liliana of the Veil
Creature:
6 Noosegraf Mob
2 Reassembling Skeleton
3 Liliana, Heretical Healer
6 Grave Titan
3 Pawn of Ulamog
3 Grim Haruspex
6 Kokusho, the Evening Star
4 Crypt Ghast
5 Sidisi, Undead Vizier
5 Gray Merchant of Asphodel
2 Blood Artist
2 Dark Confidant
3 Priest of Gix
Enchantment:
2 Animate Dead
3 Phyrexian Arena
1 Phyrexian Reclamation
3 Necromancy
4 Leyline of the Void
2 Chains of Mephistopheles
3 Necropotence
2 Bitterblossom
Instant:
1 Dark Ritual
3 Hero's Downfall
0 Slaughter Pact
2 Cabal Ritual
3 Corpse Dance
1 Entomb
2 Diabolic Tutor
3 Dismember
1 Vampiric Tutor
4 Snuff Out
3 Read the Bones
1 Reanimate
1 Mind Twist
4 Tendrils of Agony
6 Beseech the Queen
4 Damnation
1 Cabal Therapy
3 Bitter Ordeal
5 Dark Petition
2 Diabolic Intent
3 Bontu's Last Reckoning
2 Torment of Hailfire
4 Diabolic Tutor
3 Toxic Deluge
1 Innocent Blood
3 Sadistic Sacrament
2 Night's Whisper
2 Sign in Blood
3 Praetor's Grasp
3 Yawgmoth's Will
2 Demonic Tutor
B Xiahou Dun, The One Eyed Control/Combo
B Gonti, Lord of Luxury Casual funstuff
UBRG Ydris, Maelstrom Wielder Control/Chaos
R Pia Nalaar Artifact fun
WBRG Saskia the Unyielding Human Tribal
WUBR Breya, Etherium Sculptor Pauper control
Meh. I like the card but not in this deck.
If you don't want that bad card, I'm very willing to take it off your hands! I have generally found that this deck does not care much about the sorcery instant distinction in a lot of cases, though maybe this is different.
Sinkhole is a card which I always like running but slots out easily.
Hopefully I can get some games in tomorrow and have some testing data to share.
@BlackVise: Hopefully I'll have some experience with this card, so far I haven't found myself in a situation where I needed it and I haven't drawn it in the few games I've been able to play.
B Xiahou Dun, The One Eyed Control/Combo
B Gonti, Lord of Luxury Casual funstuff
UBRG Ydris, Maelstrom Wielder Control/Chaos
R Pia Nalaar Artifact fun
WBRG Saskia the Unyielding Human Tribal
WUBR Breya, Etherium Sculptor Pauper control
Battlebond -
Please love me.
Sincerly,
Cabal Stronghold.
GWUBAtraxa, Praetor's Voice PrimerGWUB
GWURoon Bant Blink WhateverGWU
BRGLord Windgrace LandsBRG
Guilds of Ravnica
Plaguecrafter feels a little loose for my liking.
Doom Whisperer is a consideration for a bomb. I might grab one, actually. I kinda scoffed at it but it's not too awful.
Sorry to hear that looks like an awesome deck! I’m looking for inspiration for my Xiahou Dun deck, how come you’ve stopped playing with it? Do you think it would be a big change to make more control focused?
At this point I carry it again, but I only play Magic a single digit number of times per year due to work and moving...
It wouldn't be too hard to make more of a control shell.