Game 4: Jhoira Suspend (JS), Scion of the Ur-Dragon (5c), Mono-White Tariel (MT), Obby (me)
This game starts like the other one, except when Scion goes after Tariel he flashes in Angel of the Dire Hour. This exiles some 5 Dragons. Strangely, Jhoira is hosed and does nothing most of the game. Tariel and Scion are going back and forth. I'm at 15 life at this moment. Tariel keeps his life at 40 due to repeated use of Resolute Archangel. I have managed to get Gisa, Sidisi, Rune-Scarred Demon and Deathmantle in play. I have been tutoring up win-cons without them knowing. I drop Gray Merchant of Asphodel, draining everyone for 11, Gisa him, Deathmantle him, draining everyone for 11 again. Jhoira is at 2, Scion is at 5, and Tariel is at 40. I cast Abhorrent Overlord for 13 1/1 flyers. On his turn, Jhoira casts Kozilek and Tariel Path to Exiles it. Scion can't hit me, so he brings Tariel down to single digit life. On his turn, Tariel casts Damnation. I Deathmantle Gisa. On my turn I cast Kokusho, Phyrexian Reclamation Sidisi, and sacrifice Kokusho twice, killing every one else.
After I got home, I began to think about how inconsistent the deck was unless the Sidisi engine was running. So I pulled the deck apart and built around the engine parts. I made quite a few changes which I'll post when I get everything sorted out. I gold fished it a few times and the deck just plays differently now. The changes may not be permanent, but I liked how it played. It did not feel oppressive at all still, which is what I want. Another observation I had was that I did not cast Obby until the last game. I'd like to keep him as my commander, but should I?
So, before I begin, here are the last round of changes after I stripped the deck down to the basics and shifted to a big mana/combo centric deck.
Swamp > Vesuva - Others have said that duping a Cabal Coffers is a sweet play. I agree. So Moar manaz!
Swamp > Thespian's Stage - Read above. Jet Medallion > Caged Sun - Since I'm shifting towards more of a "make more mana" style of play, Caged Sun seems like a better fit. It also fills the role that Bad Moon filled as a side effect. Nevinyrral's Disk > Vedalken Orrey - Larry's Disk is cool, but I want to see what comboing out on my Opp's turn feels like. I ran this is Nekusar to wheel them on not-my-turn and it was rather fun. So same concept here only I can play more reactive instead of going on the offensive. Haunted Crossroads > Thousand-Year Elixir - I like Crossroads, and it may come back in, but I want to try the Elixir to give my tappers a psuedo-haste. Grim Haruspex > Skullclamp - Card draw for better card draw. I sac a ton of tokens once I have a few. Haruspex does not give me a draw off of that, but an equipped token not only gets bigger on the front end but has the change to draw me a couple. Helps with Ghoulcaller Gisa as well. Smothering Abomination > Sensei's Divining Top - Top let me set up my draws to fit my needs. Even at its cost, the Abomination felt underwhelming. Bad Moon > Lightning Greaves - Hastey, shrouded goodness. Both pairs of boots and the Elixir are to see if the haste aspect has an impact. If I'm gonna try it, might as well be as redundant as possible. Malicious Affliction > Scour from Existence - Don't get me wrong, Affliction is really good. But it can't hit my problem permanents. Scour lets me hit anything. Promise of Power > Swiftfoot Boots - Promise is essentially a draw 5 for 5. I'm just gonna try the boots in this slot.
With that out of the way on to what will probably turn into a bit wall of text. I don't want to follow suit with other big mana black decks for it to be my win con. Though Drana, Kalastria Bloodchief and Exsanguinate are both rather superb, and I don't plan on taking them out. Exsanguinate at least gives me secondary win-con outside of just "comboing". I don't think I can go infinite, but with lots of mana, I don't really need to. I think the deck is still not oppressive, which is what I want. It is also fun as hell to pilot, in my opinion, at least. I've not played the current build in a multiplayer setting, only goldfishing. So for the most part this really is all theory. What I did when refocusing it was keep cards that either pushed me towards building the engine or cards that worked with the engine. Removal was added that would help get rid of problem permanents that I cannot deal with. Currently I think the deck is rather vulnerable, I'm just not sure to what. The object, currently, is to use my early turns to set up the mana inputs and amass combo pieces whilst using what I can to keep myself alive. All the while attempting to be as nonthreatening as possible. I also don't honestly expect to win all the games, but when I do win, I want it to be glorious.
Though, I would really like to get some input in this section though. Below are questions that I've been asking myself since I deconstructed it down to the core. My thought process is really scattered so I'll do my best to organize this to make it easier to read.
Am I doing this deck justice by trying to force Mono-Black?
While I think the deck's evolution thus far shows that staying in Black is not a bad thing, I sometimes feel like I'm missing something. The deck plays like I want it to, and its fun for everyone. So this issue is mainly about the 100 that I'm playing. It feels good, but I'm not sure if it feels right.
Should I keep it Mono-Black?
This is the one where I need some outside input to make sure I'm looking at this from the right angle. Before I can answer this, as currently "I don't know" is not acceptable, I need to have the following answered:
What do the other colors give me?
I need ways to protect my combo and its pieces, get my big mana lands online, or find ways to generate absurd amounts of tokens.
White: Tokens, Sun Titan, Mine Excavation-like effects....
Blue: Draw, Control, ... (so far not the best of the bunch)
Red: Haste, ..... (not too far behind blue)
Green: Tokens, Regrowth, Sylvan Scrying-like effects, ...
Should I go 2 color?
What about more colors?
Due to me not wanting to go into 3 color decks again (Kaalia and Nekusar are digital only decks now), I think I want to say that I'd rather stay mono-Black or Black/X.
Thanks for the game reports. It's fun to read how other people are playing their decks and the interesting plays that happen during games. Magic is just as much about the experience of playing as what you're playing and I like reading them.
Anyways, to answer your thoughts, in order:
1) Mono-Black big mana is an extremely powerful way to play mono-colors generally and Black has some of the stronger plays available to this type of strategy. I can think of at least 5 pieces that can double your mana, besides Cabal Coffers. The key here that I see missing is something to consistently do outside of the engine that you most commonly play (Deathmantle shenanigans) along with some utility (ie: card advantage and removal). You have Exsanguinate and Drana, but what about Geth, Lord of the Vault? I think if you add a few more elements that take advantage of your mana doublers, you will find that games will be less redundant, you'll flesh out your threat package, and you'll create different angles of attack.
2) I would recommend keeping it mono-Black, to take advantage of your big mana prodcution, but I would suggest making Oona, Queen of the Fae your general. You can still play mono-Black with all of your mana doublers, keep Cabal Coffers pure and unadulterated, and open up a few utility pieces that complement your Token strategy that seems to be the most common way for you to win the game. Dire Undercurrents, Memory Plunder, and Shadow of Doubt are the best ones to add. By making Oona your commander, you now have something to do with large amounts of mana if nothing else is going for oyu. Exiling opponents' spells is criminally undervalued in EDH because you're removing answers, combo pieces, and thin them out for a potential decking win. Oona makes Skullclamp utterly ridiculous and Dire Undercurrents becomes a legitimate way to guarantee a win with your Token strategy (it's hard to lose when your opponents have no cards in hand). Further, the Rogues are fliers! A legitimate swarm win can happen here. Oh, you also have access to have more mana rocks to accelerate you. I used to have a mono-Black Oona list, it's in my retired EDH list in my signature, and it could easily take over a game while not being especially threatening compared to Scion, Azami, Damia, or Derevi. I should check out my Oona list again, cause I don't remember what I had in it. It's post #221 in the thread I link to.
If you were to add an additional color and still use a token theme, White is the way to go with Teysa, the 3 CMC one. I like Oona better though, so you be the judge.
I hope this has given you some food for thought. Mono-Color decks should be more widespread, and I'm glad that Red and White got some Commander support cause they sucked as mono-Colors. Long live B/U/G as the superior colors of EDH!
Thanks for the game reports. It's fun to read how other people are playing their decks and the interesting plays that happen during games. Magic is just as much about the experience of playing as what you're playing and I like reading them.
I "report" the games as a way for me to remember what happens and to show the diversity of plays that any deck can pull. I always enjoyed reading these types of game reports so I figured I'd attempt to replicate these with my limited writing skills. I love to analyze my own plays and games to figure out what I may have done wrong or what was done wrong by others. It also allows me to not have to remember games at a later time as it is all kept here rather nicely.
Quote from benjameenbear »
1) Mono-Black big mana is an extremely powerful way to play mono-colors generally and Black has some of the stronger plays available to this type of strategy. I can think of at least 5 pieces that can double your mana, besides Cabal Coffers. The key here that I see missing is something to consistently do outside of the engine that you most commonly play (Deathmantle shenanigans) along with some utility (ie: card advantage and removal). You have Exsanguinate and Drana, but what about Geth, Lord of the Vault? I think if you add a few more elements that take advantage of your mana doublers, you will find that games will be less redundant, you'll flesh out your threat package, and you'll create different angles of attack.
I'm running Magus of the Coffers, Nirkana Revenant, Crypt Ghast, Caged Sun, and Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx. I'm not currently running Gauntlet of Power since there are a couple of other Mono Black decks in my Meta, apparently. One is a Ghoulcaller Gisa Zombies and the other is Erebos, God of the Dead Good stuff. I honestly don't know what Erebos does since the only game I saw him he was busy not messing with me til I killed him. I'm not against redundancy, even with the games themselves. It makes the deck easier to pilot, but challenging to play. If that makes sense. I did consider Geth while I was pondering the direction I wanted to go here. My issue with him (and Ooona) is that they make me targets. Geth already has a name for himself since there is a Mono-Brown Geth deck running around that has been hated out. He's not very liked and would quickly make a big target of me sooner than I'd like. I'll probably try him out in my play testing once my testing partner is back at work. For me, the best removal is mass removal. While I can build back up probably faster than everyone else, I'm not sure I want to have to deal with that. Stripping the deck to the core allowed me to see what really is not needed to make things go. So adding in the Mass removal is not that big of an issue. So I may first try out some of the "destory everyone's stuff but yours" type of mass removal.
Quote from benjameenbear »
2) I would recommend keeping it mono-Black, to take advantage of your big mana prodcution, but I would suggest making Oona, Queen of the Fae your general. You can still play mono-Black with all of your mana doublers, keep Cabal Coffers pure and unadulterated, and open up a few utility pieces that complement your Token strategy that seems to be the most common way for you to win the game. Dire Undercurrents, Memory Plunder, and Shadow of Doubt are the best ones to add. By making Oona your commander, you now have something to do with large amounts of mana if nothing else is going for oyu. Exiling opponents' spells is criminally undervalued in EDH because you're removing answers, combo pieces, and thin them out for a potential decking win. Oona makes Skullclamp utterly ridiculous and Dire Undercurrents becomes a legitimate way to guarantee a win with your Token strategy (it's hard to lose when your opponents have no cards in hand). Further, the Rogues are fliers! A legitimate swarm win can happen here. Oh, you also have access to have more mana rocks to accelerate you. I used to have a mono-Black Oona list, it's in my retired EDH list in my signature, and it could easily take over a game while not being especially threatening compared to Scion, Azami, Damia, or Derevi. I should check out my Oona list again, cause I don't remember what I had in it. It's post #221 in the thread I link to.
I remember the days of running sub-optimal generals and loose lists. Running Obby lets me relive those days. When I first played the deck (I lost that game, but was a silent threat the whole game), the other players were trying to tell me I should run something close to their list. Yet I utterly destroyed them when they decided to poke me. In the same breath they praised the deck for being off the beaten path. Though, an interesting thought would be to have a singular deck that can transform into a different deck with the substitution of cards. For instance have a Mono-B build, have a Mono-B Oona build, and maybe others so that the deck "isn't the same thing" whenever I play it. This will allow me to play the oddball obby, or quickly switch to a heavier exile/mill theme. Due to milling and such running rampant in my meta, people have begun dropping Eldrazi Titans to counter this. Oona might be set to handle this change. So, back on track here. I get the Undercurrents (oona's tokens trigger both halves) and the Memory Plunder (REALLY fun card), but Shadow of Doubt is essentially just a cantrip in my meta. Outside of my Big Boy decks, Fetches and tutors are not a very common thing. Which I find to be the craziest thing ever. I'm ok with this, but still. I like fliers. Which is why I love Abhorrent Overlord, 1/1 flying harpies. I did look at your Oona list and I did see a few cards that are interesting and may incorporate those into a tranformative Obby to Oona list. I really like the idea of a single list that can be changed to be a slightly different deck with the substitution of a few cards. I'll report back on my finding after a bit of testing.
Quote from benjameenbear »
If you were to add an additional color and still use a token theme, White is the way to go with Teysa, the 3 CMC one. I like Oona better though, so you be the judge.
I hope this has given you some food for thought. Mono-Color decks should be more widespread, and I'm glad that Red and White got some Commander support cause they sucked as mono-Colors. Long live B/U/G as the superior colors of EDH!
Teysa, Orzhov Scion is interesting as well. With my sac shenanigans I could easily generate a few white spirits. Unlike Oona, I HAVE to actually dip into white for Teysa. I'm not against this, it's just something I'll Have to consider. I just don't want my deck to become some homogenized monstrosity that I'll end up hating. While I built my Nek from the ground up, he eventually became boring since the began to fall in line with a lot of the other decks. Obby is my brew (though he may have some stuff from other decks, I honestly don't know), I've not dug through decklists or posted on someone else's list. I want this to become its own thing. I've researched too much on Teysa that I'm afraid that I'd fall into the rut that is All other Teysa decks. Like you, I think Oona seems like the better fit for the Big Mana Black idea.
Well good luck sir in your EDH ponderings. Oona is a lot of fun and by generating tokens you counter the Eldrazi's biggest advantage (whisper: Annihilator).
Oh! You can also have access to the only clone effect that a mono-Black can reasonably run: Phyrexian Metamorph! Boom.
Let your EDH juices flow. I respect your decision to keep your list unadulterated, so I won't press too many suggestions. I'm fond of watching how decks develop. For example, the Tasigur thread that's active here has been an interesting evolution that has been capped by Tasigur being a Reanimator list when it started as basically draw-go control. Best of luck!
You could also do an Ob Nixilis themed deck! Every version of Ob Nixilis that exists plus a few cards with quotes from him would be pretty fun to do too.
This is a bit of a necro, but do you have a current deck list? I've been building decent decks out of some of the mono pre cons, and this is the next one on my list. For some reason it's a lot of fun to play mono commanders to me.
This is a bit of a necro, but do you have a current deck list? I've been building decent decks out of some of the mono pre cons, and this is the next one on my list. For some reason it's a lot of fun to play mono commanders to me.
I've not been able to play since the last time I played. Life keeps getting in the way. I believe the posted list is my current list. I have many testing iterations, but nothing concrete. If I were to play it today, the posted deck is what I'd be running. This list is rather fun to play. I dropped Kaalia and Nekusar because they were not this.
This is a bit of a necro, but do you have a current deck list? I've been building decent decks out of some of the mono pre cons, and this is the next one on my list. For some reason it's a lot of fun to play mono commanders to me.
I've not been able to play since the last time I played. Life keeps getting in the way. I believe the posted list is my current list. I have many testing iterations, but nothing concrete. If I were to play it today, the posted deck is what I'd be running. This list is rather fun to play. I dropped Kaalia and Nekusar because they were not this.
Thanks! I'll build it, and take it for a spin. I need to diverify, as people are getting mad at me for blowing up their lands, or vomiting elves on to the board in early turns. Time for something more grindy.
This is a bit of a necro, but do you have a current deck list? I've been building decent decks out of some of the mono pre cons, and this is the next one on my list. For some reason it's a lot of fun to play mono commanders to me.
I've not been able to play since the last time I played. Life keeps getting in the way. I believe the posted list is my current list. I have many testing iterations, but nothing concrete. If I were to play it today, the posted deck is what I'd be running. This list is rather fun to play. I dropped Kaalia and Nekusar because they were not this.
Thanks! I'll build it, and take it for a spin. I need to diverify, as people are getting mad at me for blowing up their lands, or vomiting elves on to the board in early turns. Time for something more grindy.
This was the same reason for me dropping Kaalia. I like how it can have explosive hands/draws and you can begin the engine sooner. And please, do share any info you get from playing this. I'm curious to see what other pilots change/like. There's a few cards I'm not happy with, but I currently have no alternative for the cards.
It's been a while since I've posted here, Incoming wall-o-text warning. Things getting in the way of EDH fun. Because of this, MTGS user Iso has decided to help. Before I get to some of game "reports" and other thoughts, I'd like to begin with the changes (I'll be updating the OP soonish as well). I may ramble a bit as I'm going through a couple of weeks of notes:
Changes: Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre > Steel Hellkite (6/1) - Oldamog is great. I love the removal tacked on, since I can hit problem permanents. Mana is not an issue in the deck, so that was not the reason to drop Ula. Exile still drops Ula, which is the problem. I can't reuse Ula if he's exiled. Steel Hellkite, on the other hand - lower cost, though probably less effective. The potential for reuse over the course of the game makes for an interesting card. This is an iffy change but I want to test this out fully before thinking I'm wrong about this. With the titans, you want them to hit the grave for the reshuffle effect. The problem with Ula is that he WILL get exiled (if I don't kill him first) due to him having Indestructible. Gate to Phyrexia > Malevolent Awakening (5/21) - Gate, while a fun card, is not really that great. Yeah, I can nuke an arty during my upkeep, but I have to wait so long to do it. The removal of this card was also part of the reason for the Ula/SH switch. Awakening was tested, and the first game it got played it earned its spot. As such, I'm not upset about this trade. Also, Gate was the weakest card in the deck so this cut was the easiest I've done since its current build.
Testing: Charcoal Diamond > Jet Medallion - The goal of the deck is to play a few spells on its turn. While the diamond is nice, I'd rather see if the Medallion is better at allowing us some additional castings of things a turn. I like the Medallion as it has come out, only to come back in. This being the second time even as a test. Shriekmaw > Liliana of the Dark Realms - Shriekmaw is nice but with Gate gone, it feels like the weakest card in the deck. Terror on a body via evoke is nice as I just Phyrexian Reclamation it to do it again. The issue being that my meta has quite a few black decks, so it's not as good. Since we want to play as a big mana deck for explosive turns, why not have Lili get us some swamps. *IF* I happen to get her to Ult (not likely), then a non-saccing Lake of the Dead is nothing to scoff at.
Considering: Deserted Temple - I like being able to reuse Coffers/Nykthos. This may be going in (added in without testing) after this round of testing. Lake of the Dead - I love this card. Not sure it belongs in this deck. I do really like that fact that my lands become a sacrificial resource, but I'm not sure I want it in here. This will probably be tested after this round of testing. Black Market - Moar manaz! See a theme here. The deck is mana intensive when things get going. The problem here is that this is a double edges sword for me. On the one hand the mana allows the deck to do its thing. On the other hand, this card could maybe make the deck become fairly oppressive. This will most likely get tested in the next round of testing. Xiahou Dun, the One-Eyed - My issue is that if I lose my enchantments, the deck has a bit of a struggle. I really like that in this deck Xiahou is easily saccable/recurable. I like him a lot. I can't really come up with a reason to not put him in other than a monetary one. I may test with him since the Judge foils is not all that expensive. Diabolic Intent - I would like to get my hands on one of these as it would easily replace Cruel Tutor. I don't think I need *another* tutor, but a better one that puts the card into my hand would be nice. 2 mana is the better than the 3 mana as well. Yes I can make a lot of mana, but the deck can chew through that.
So far, those are the changes. Not much was needed at the moment since the deck is rather tight in it's construction. There aren't very many cards that don't do anything to progress me forward. Everything has its place, so any other cuts will be hard.
When Iso said he wanted to help test Obby out in his meta, I packed the deck up and shipped it to him as soon as I could. My meta is soft, while his is not. This was a chance to get Obby out there and see what he can do. The second half of this experiment was to have Iso have no clue how the deck worked. I wanted him to pick it up and play it without any prior knowledge of what it’s supposed to do; I even asked him to not read this thread so as to not spoil anything. Not long after he got the deck he had 2 reports for me:
Quote from Iso »
In the first game, I cast Kozilek on T8, opponent scooped
It was pretty linear before that
Nim Deathmantle, Arena, Orrery, Chalice, Gravy Titan, Coffers
Oh, and I Skeletal Scryed at my opponent's EoT.
Opponent was playing Daxos and the game was fairly even (with them possibly even having a better board) until Kozilek came out
I can tell you exactly what they played if you care; if not, here's what I took from it:
With so many tokens and colorless cards, Devotion seems a little weak in the deck.
Both for Gary and Nykthos.
Those last two lines struck me the most. While the devotion can seem a bit weak, the deck is not meant to draw a big target. I want to look like I'm durdling whilst getting my "machine" going. If I'm draining 10-15 life from each opponent too soon then I'm no longer a non-threat but a target. So I'm rather Ok with that assessment. Another bit that I gathered was it looked like a big mana black deck that durdles instead of wins, even though it won. The titans are in there because they change the game when they stick. Annihilator just wrecks shop with an active Eldrazi.
Quote from Iso »
In the second game (which I'll tell you about in a moment), Nykthos only ever got me 5 mana at the most - which is a drop in the bucket compared to the 60 I generated on one turn.
So, second game was a little more exciting. My opponent played Sydri
The game would have gone on longer except we forgot that she had Crawlspace out and she wasn't playing towards that
Ob and Gravy Titan generated tons of tokens and life advantage
Phyrexian Tower was great with Skullclamp + token generators
I got Vesuva, Thespian Stage, Coffers, Urborg, Magus, and Nykthos all out
Drana boardwiped once, then immediately got <killed> on on my opponent's turn
Shriekmaw was LVP in this game
I was actually a little concerned about the fact that I was getting <a lot> of ramp (Chalice kicked 7 times) and nothing to use it on
Then I got Phyrexian Reclamation, generated 60 mana, and Drana smashed face (Lightning Greaves)
I was sad not to have Phyrexian Altar there, because I wanted to use Gary a bajillion times in one turn for the win but I didn't have a sac outlet except Tower, and I had tapped that to sacrifice my Skullclamped creature.
Ob gained me lots of life, and I even -2'd him to death on one turn to cast him and recast and -2’d him again on the same turn
The deck sort of putzes around and fizzles if you get lots of draw and no mana or lots of mana and no draw, but Ob can generate demons and a little lifegain for protection if need be, so, that's an interesting touch
Anyway, it was pretty nuts, and a blast to play. I'll get more game reports to you as I use the deck more!
Seems like it'd be weak to aggro/creature-heavy builds, but maybe the hands I got just weren't too well-suited for that kind of game. Time will tell!
My opponent wouldn't let me keep enough counters on him to ult
So I just gained a bunch of life and spawned a bunch of demons
But yeah, if you're open to the idea, I definitely recommend a Phyrexian Altar
Oh, I Reanimated Gary at one point, which was funny to me because Devotion was 5 upon his entry
Since there's a lot of draw power, I might recommend a discard outlet, as well - perhaps Urborg Syphon-Mage?
It's a sort of not great card that definitely fits in with the theme
So, big mana? Check. Nykthos getting 5 mana is odd, but keep in mind, this is only his second time playing the deck so he's making up how its supposed to play as he goes. 60 mana in a turn is nothing to scoff at. Grave Titan doing his thing, pooping out 2/2 zombies and Obby giving some life as well as pooping out 5/5 demons. So it's doing its thing. While it should be obvious, Phyrexian Tower + Skullclamp is a fun interaction I'd not thought about. The observation about Shriekmaw is how I feel about it. I find it more useful than Gate to Phyrexia, but not by much. It is probably the next thing I cut if I find something else to put in its spot. All that manaz and nothing to use it on? Ur doin it rong! In any case, he's been playing it like a big mana deck, which at it's core, it is not. So, the pile feels like a pile of sub-par cards that do nothing other than make manaz and doods. Nothing scary. So, I got what I wanted out of the initial playtests. Now to discuss Phyrexian Altar. It and cards like it will not make their way into Obby. The reason being that I don't want anything in here to be able to go infinite. With the right setup, Altar allows that to occur. With the amount I tutor in this deck, that "right setup" is not hard to pull off.
Brainstorming begins and we bounce ideas off of each other (Iso has yet to see me pilot the deck, thus revealing the combo-y nature of the durdles). Gate to Phyrexia was the first card we really discuss. Option are Viscera Seer, Carrion Feeder, Ob Nixilis, Unshackled, Grave Pact, Dictate of Erebos, Indulgent Tormentor, one-sided wraths, Bitter Ordeal (for Drana shenanigans), Black Market, and a few others. Iso has the following observation for me "It certainly excels at doing nothing until it has the resources for such :p". Which is partially true. I reply "The object is get all your resources and such. Then get the machine, then go off. Incremental gains to not be considered a threat." I've been vague about "the machine" so as to not give anything away as to what the combo really is. He guesses rather close, but leaves out the main tutor that gets the whole thing going, Sidisi, Undead Vizier + Nim Deathmantl. He is able to find a lot of the little complex pieces that i've smattered in the deck as support or win-cons. He decides to pull the deck apart and starts finding weird card choices (Sword of Feast and Famine, Vedalkin Orrey, etc). Seeing someone going through my deck like this makes a small part of me happy. "So yeah, the more I look at the deck, the more I understand how the cards work together. You've obviously put a lot of thought into making this work." A durdly complex deck that really does nothing but build resources.
Quote from Iso »
Started off with Ob today...things are going poorly
Damia, Narset, Kalemne, and Karametra are the opponents
Kalemne is *****ting out Giants like mad
Someone took control of Magus of the Coffers
Someone board wiped, so, things are less absurd. Put out Arena, so, should start getting stuff soon.
Tutored for Crypt Ghast so I can cast Ulamog in 2 turns
If I draw a Swamp, I can Extort for both Ulamog AND SoFaF
Spot removal on Ulamog and the Magus I reanimated Ulamog got exiled. I just wanna cast Kozilek, dammit!
Someone used Blatant Thievery and I misplayed by using Toxic Deluge before moving the Sword's equip target Dx So he still has an 8/8 Gravy Titan
Cast Kozilek and he immediately got exiled with something that lets my opponent play him for free :l
Exsanguinated for 25, gained 100 life - but someone has a Sorin in their hand, sooo.
Aaand the guy who took Gravy Titan and Kozilek killed me because I had Ghast and Revenant out. He chose wisely because I had Kokusho, Deathmantle, and Gate in my hand.
Lots of counterspells and removal floating around this game. At least we killed someone with Exsanguinate.
Yeah, it was a fun game - mostly because it felt like I was constantly on the verge of getting smashed but held on. My misplay was probably what cost me the game, ultimately, but it was a challenge and fun. I drew Gate and it just sort of sat in my hand, but everything else felt like it was going to do well at some point or another. The Titans would have done greatly if they had stayed around. Crypt Ghast into Nirkana Revenant and SoFaF was fun, especially since Crypt Ghast could attack that turn and there was an open player.
Feels like the deck could use an Expedition Map just to grab Coffers on a more regular basis.
Tossing Obby into the deep end. Sweet. Mana, mana, mana. So far so good. The most important part is "Yeah, it was a fun game - mostly because it felt like I was constantly on the verge of getting smashed but held on." This is how the deck usually plays out. Keeps your head in the game. Fun to pilot is my main concern. So far, so good.
This is also the point that I let Iso in on the basics of "the machine". Not sure how this will change how the plays the deck, but it's fun to have Obby being piloted by another person. This also gives me time to work on some decks. I'll for sure be posting one later since, like Obby, it will be going through my personal changes to fit my play style.
Quote from Iso »
Lost because the newbie in the game could not assess threats properly and kept targeting me, plus he was running Anafenza, the Foremost
The other guy was running that dude that turns lands into 0/0 creatures with 3 +1/+1 counters on them (Noyan Dar, Roil Shaper)
All I was doing was generating mana and tokens, and also played Kozilek (though he got exiled immediately)
I couldn't use Skullclamp's draw ability because all creatures that died were exiled as a result of Anafenza
That said, Malevolent Awakening is deffoz better for the deck than Gate
Opening hand had Urborg so I T2 Tutored for Coffers
I'd have had some crazy Abhorrent Overlord + Harpy Tokens + Skullclamp + Awakening shenanigans if not for Anafenza
Drana was also immediately exiled when she came out, though I got a good use of her ability in
The Anafenza guy kept retaliating when I targeted him with stuff and I wanted to be like "DUDE I'm targeting you because you're going to keep targeting me because the other guy is the real threat in this game and I need to put out some answers for what he has" but I figured I'd just let him find out what a 6/6 Darksteel Citadel could do to him.
It seems Anafenza, the Foremost is just bad for us. Still, we have ways around that but it definitely hamstrings the deck. This game, it seems, Obby was the target due to "oh noez all da manaz". Which can happen with newer players not being able to correctly assess the threat. It does show what a deck can do when targeted like that, and Obby, while he lost still, seemed to have held out like he does.
My thoughts: I find this deck to be nearing a place where i can call it complete. I has a focus (get "The Machine" online), it's currently not oppressive, and it is rather fun to pilot. Since it is becoming more and more difficult to cut cards for other cards, I feel that "room for improvement" will only come with cards from new sets. I'm ok with this. I enjoy the deck currently and hope to keep it enjoyable for all parties involved. In any case, I do hope to make more updates as it gets played physically and online. Since this list is tighter than my Selenia list, I'm not personally concentrating on this pile. I may do so when i get it back, but for now I'm ok with watching someone else offer up thoughts on it. Since the list has been out of my hands, I feel that it is becoming a tighter and tighter list (for what I want it to do).
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
"It's been a long time. How have you been?" ~GlaDOS
The deck itself changes very slightly, as the card changes are difficult to make. For me, this list is as tight as it can get due to the extensive testing I've (and iso) have put it through. Nevertheless, some changes are being made. Not many. (I'll update the OP with the deck list as it SHOULD be, not what I'm currently running).
Changes: Crypt of Agadeem > Westvale Abbey: I've yet to play a game where the crypt makes more than a couple of mana. It's a good card in the right deck, unfortunately, this is not that deck. Not only does the Abbey make tokens, I can easily transform it to Ormendahl, Profane Prince. Arcane Lighthouse > Homeward Path: The lighthouse was fantastic that one game a while back. Now, its just meh. My meta changed a bit since I was last there (lots more newer players). Creature theft is something I can't deal with outside of my 1 boardwipe. So, Path gives me the ability to regain control of my own critters. Yeah, I know, it does it for everyone. Still, this card is useful. Cruel Tutor > Diabolic Intent: The more I thought about this swap, the more I realized that I needed to make it. Don't get me wrong, Tutor is great but being able to put the card in my hand is just better. Intent gives me an additional sac, to get Sidisi going, or just to find combo pieces. It's a stronger card, with no real drawback, so the swap was easy. Shriekmaw > Noxious Gearhulk: This is one I've been considering since the Gearhulk was spoiled. While the Gearhulk is 1 more mana, it's ability to hit black and arty creatures is worth the added cost. I can't Evoke it like I could Shriekmaw, which I'm ok with as I rarely did that anyways, as I usually need the body anyway.
Testing:
I will say that the list I'm "running" is not the list I'm running. There are a couple of cards I'm missing to match up with this decklist, so it gives me a chance to test some cards out that I may not have considered. While I could just straight up purchase any card a need, I enjoy physically trading for all the parts. It allows me to be social, which is not one of my strongest attributes. Nirkana Revenant > Sculpting Steel: I currently do not have the vamp, so testing Steel in its slot. Turning Steel into a Caged Sun one game. So yeaaaaah. Still, it will not be a permanent replacement. Reanimate > Necropotence: The DethSkull! Necro is stupid good. This is the type of card I don't want to run as it paints a target on my back. With the newer players still learning, only the vets will understand the power here. The vets also leave me alone, as they know I play quirky decks ("Who wins a game with Near-Death Experinece?" ~guy at my LGS). Vesuva > Lake of the Dead: Since I don't have a Vesuva, I figured now is a good time to test out the Lake. I've always loved the Lake. Ran it in my Mono-B Suicide deck many, MANY moons ago. Turning my swamps into psuedo-dark rituals seems fun. Will see how testing goes.
Considering:
Putting these here, as I don't want to forget about them Deserted Temple - I like being able to reuse Coffers/Nykthos. This may be going in (added in without testing) after this round of testing. More like, when I can get my hands on one. Xiahou Dun, the One-Eyed - My issue is that if I lose my enchantments, the deck has a bit of a struggle. I really like that in this deck Xiahou is easily saccable/recurable. I like him a lot. I can't really come up with a reason to not put him in other than a monetary one. I may test with him since the Judge foil is not all that expensive. Razaketh, the Foulblooded - Reusable sac outlet. There have been times where I needed just one more sacrifice to keep the engine running. This guy gives me the ability to keep going until I run out of mana or life. The tutor part is nice as it allows me to get combo pieces. His 8 mana cost, is a bit restrictive, even for this deck. Torment of Hailfire - In a big mana deck, this card can easily get out of hand. I need to test further to make sure it is worth inclusion. Vindictive Lich: This card has a low CMC and is easy to kill (Skullclamp much?). This also means that it is a great candidate for inclusion in the 99. I need to get one and test it. I like the multiple modes that can hit up to 3 targets (discard and critter sac being the better 2).
I'm going to post here first, before I update the OP (this may be a while before I do so). I don't get to play too much, but I still brew, theory-craft, and playtest. Though, I did come across a few things and made some changes. I've decided to "Pimp" Obby because "why not". I also feel that the subtlety of the overall troll that is Obby becomes compleat. "But serrot," you say "what does this have to do with the build?" Well, that means I'm double sleeving this monstrosity as I get some pretty cards. While I may not have tiny hands, they are sausages attached to meathooks... I'm also very clumsy and not very dexterous. Due to this, I've decided to remove some of my tutors and "shuffle library" cards. This change will be slow as I get a handle on what an "acceptable amount of shuffling" will be allowed. In testing and brewing with other nerds (I'm looking at you Iso), I've also come across cards that go against the spirit of the deck. Which is to have fun.
Changes: Sculpting Steel -> Reanimate: Now that I got my hands on one (thanks, iso), I can actually put it back in. Steel was fun, but was the weakest of the cards I put in to test. Exsanguinate -> Torment of Hailfire: Exsanguinate is one of those cards that I hated casting because I could just win. On the surface the cards feel the same. They are not. Token strategies and enormous hand strategies can keep Torment of just outright winning. It feels more like a discard or boardwipe spell. Gray Merchant of Asphodel -> Vindictive Lich: I'm crazy, I know. Gary is just too easy to abuse and just win. Not what I'm looking to do in this deck. I want to have fun, and looping Gary was not that. I think the fact that he easily scales to large numbers is why he feels too oppressive (this is the same reason I run Abhorrent Overlord, but creating a mass of tokens is better than just outright winning). I like cards that give me options, and the Lich does just that. Looping this guy could empty someone's hand, wipe someone's board and/or take someone down to 0. I really like the potential here. Oh, and he's clampable... BONUS! Skeletal Scrying -> Twilight Prophet: There are a couple of things at play on this one. Firstly, I like having a higher creature count. By removing a spell and adding a creature, I'm keeping aligned with that. I tend to not want to use a lot of cards that sit in my grave as Scrying fodder. I've had times where I would draw 1 or 2 off of a grave that is 6 cards deep due to potential grave shenanigans. Finally, upon testing Prophet I've come to the conclusion that this card is bonkers. It's so easy to get the City's Blessing that it's both draw and life gain/drain... win-win in my books. Vampiric Tutor -> Razaketh, the Foulblooded: I know I said that I'm working on removing more tutors, yet here I am switching a tutor for a tutor. Well, our buddy Rza here, is more than just a tutor. He's a wonderful sac outlet. I've been wanting to get this bastard in here for that reason.
Thoughts Diabolic Tutor, Diabolic Intent, Demonic Tutor: I'm more ok with keeping the Intent in as the sac requirement is rather useful. For now these will stay in as I test. If I still feel that I'm having to shuffle a bit still, I'll start by cutting Demonic then Diabolic Tutor. For now though I'm just notating that I'm keeping an eye on these Sidisi, Undead Vizier, Rune-Scarred Demon, Razaketh, the Foul Blooded: I will most likely be leaving these in as I'm not opposed to some tutoring (2 of these 3 are combo pieces), but being repeatable (again, same 2 cards) I'm ok with skimming some more spell tutors down for card draw or other interesting cards. Necropotence: while this card is only in due to me needing a filler card, it was been amazing. It doesn't really draw the hate that I suspected it would. Since I want to move away from tutors, this seems like it would likely find a home here in a tutor's slot. Vampiric Rites: I'm considering adding this as I decide which Tutors I'm going to cut. It is both a sac outlet and card draw, all wrapped up in a nice 1 mana package. As Iso stated (I chat with this guy waaaay too much, no?), "I'd rather have lots of tiny draws for less consistency but more value." This seems like a "value" that Obby wants to abide by.
I'm still looking at cards to see if there are other quirky or interesting cards that I've missed.
It's been a while, but this is still my most prized deck. I enjoy the fact that I've put so much effort (and continue to do so) into a deck I consider a troll. In any case, I enjoy this deck more than I should. Before I get into changes, I want to get into an observation I had recently. But not from my deck, from RabidVacin's take on Obby (Ob Nixilis, Unshackled): Soldevi Adnate. I feel this card is highly underrated. Even I didn't even give the card a single thought until I saw RV put it to great use. Playing a game against him and we are both stuck on 3 lands. He's able to keep going while I get nowhere. The Adnate allows him to just keep playing at the cost of a creature. Yeah, seems like something this deck could use.
So, I'm not 100% sure what changes I've made as I've been solo testing, taking cards in and out and not taking my doc up to date of my changes. So, I'll just post here the changes that I've recently made, using the current posted deck as starting point (I'll update it here shortly):
Changes: Grim Monolith -> Soldevi Adnate: Hear me out here. 2CMC rock for 2CMC critter rock/Sac outlet. I mean, yeah, summoning sickness. Keep in mind, I do have things that allow me to bypass sickness, so its not a big deal. I've also been trying to figure out how to take the Monolith out as I honestly feel I don't need it. I'd actually much rather have the sac outlet that can give me some mana to do things. I mean, the deck likes lots of mana to do things. Diabolic Tutor ->Necropotence: Firstly, my list for tracking things is all kinds of broken, and the list posted here (soon to be updated) is also wrong. My physical deck is in pieces as I'm currently using parts of it in other decks. So verifying ANYTHING has been a hassle. In any case, at some point Nirkana Revenant was taken out for the skull, then put back in replacing the skull. Weird, I know. It might have been a time where I was trying to take proxies out of the physical deck. In any case, in wanting to minimize shuffling due to running lots of tutors I'm making this change. It saddens me to pull my altered Diabolic, but my Selenia deck can use it.
In there end, there were quite a few changes I needed to put into my doc as well as the first post here, and sometimes both places contradicted each other. That's what happens when I test and don't pay attention to what I'm doing.
While it doesn't seem like i did much, the main post will have a few changes. I'll try to get more games in online with a few of the users/mods here. Since I don't have to worry about proxies for online testing, I'll be working on the deck as it should be, not what I'm currently running in physical form.
Now, on to the short, one-sided game I had with RV this afternoon:
I start by mulling to 6 card hand with 3 lands, Bitterblossom and some other 4+ casting things. I'm on the draw. He gets a t2 Soldevi Adnate, I get a t2 Bitterblossom. I get a Phyrexian Reclamation into play, but I'm stuck on 3 lands. RV drops a Stronghold Assassin, which he turns into 3 mana via Adnate and casts Ob Nixilis, Unshackled. Not much happens for a couple of turns as I try to find that 4th land. I cast Sign in Blood and whiff on lands. He ends up getting a Harbinger of Night into play and that is essentially game as he drops a Reclamation of his own. His Obby is a healthy 9/9 and I'll get commander damaged out before I can do anything of use. From this I learned that Adnate is better than it looks and would work quite well in my build. Since I can use it sac artifacts as well, I may test Spine of Ish Sah in the Scour From Existance slot. 7 mana removal spell for 7 mana artifact that can be used as Adnate fodder. For now, that's just a thought I have. Further testing is required.
Edit: I'm an idiot and didn't quite read Soldevi Adnate properly. Nevertheless, its a great enabler for the deck.
It seems I've not tinkered with my docs in a while that I forgot I still had some notes for this deck. As always, finding what to replace cards with is rather difficult.
Cards I'm considering:
Whisper, Blood Liturgist: While discussing a deck with Iso, Whisper came up. He's running Whisper in his Endrek deck and has enjoyed it. I do want to up my creature counts and drop my non creatures. This makes me want to swap Victimize for it, but I feel Victimize is still the better card. I'll probably test Whisper somewhere to see how it plays.
Yawgmoth's Vile Offering: Since this card was spoiled, I've wanted it. I do run a few Legends, all of which are combo pieces or enablers, so I shouldn't have too much of an issue casting this. Being able to hit any grave for the reanimation is great. Having removal tacked on is just icing on the cake.
Cabal Stronghold: Cabal Coffers is great. This card is not Coffers, but I feel it has potential. 24 of my lands are basic swamps so I may test it to find out if I'm right or wrong on my assessment. The 3 mana activation might also be its downfall.
With the upcoming release of War of the Spark I've decided it might be time to look at some of the new goodies in recent sets and WAR.
Bankrupt in Blood, Blood Divination, Costly Plunder: These "Sac some amount of critters, draw cards" cards are interesting. Since I've been pulling away from tutors in general, these are rather interesting to me. I poop out a few tokens so I have many expendable critters. They also make for good sac outlets to get things going. Helm of the Host: This card is just gross. There are lots of things I'd love to dupe each turn. It also creates sac fodder for things, which is always a good thing. Priest of Forgotten Gods: I can't tell if this is good or if just "does things". Either way, for the low, low cost of tapping and saccing a pair of dopes, stuff happens. I like the mana and card draw. It's like a crappier Phyrexian Tower that does other things. Bolas's Citadel: This card is bonkers. It might go against the spirit of this deck (make fun, not oppression). I just can't keep my eyes off of it. I'm pretty sure this should be run in a good majority of black decks. Command the Dreadhorde: This seems like a solid card to recur something or just pull a bunch of crap out of the any grave. I may test this in my Beacon of Unrest slot. I just want to see if it's worth including. The Elderspell: This is going to be a meta call. It's been a while since I've physically played at my LGS, and it being a college town, I can only assume that the meta will shift. I may keep one on hand as being able to tick Ob-Nixilis of the Black Oath up would be nice. This will just destroy Super Friends strategies as well. So we'll see. Finale of Eternity: I can generate absurd amounts of mana here (non-infinite). Removal + Mass Rez seems like a good thing. 12 mana is a bit rough, but it wouldn't hurt to try. God-Eternal Bontu: So, I've been trying to figure out what to put in place of Razaketh, the Foulblooded. Raza is stupidly good. It just goes against how I want this deck to play. Iso made the suggestion to me and when I really looked at it, Bontu kind of fills the same role Raza does. Mass sac outlet and cards to hand. As I've stated, I'm trying to move away from tutors (I still have a few, I'm not that crazy) and Bontu helps in that aspect.
I may edit this post with more thoughts when I get a chance, just wanted to put my initial thoughts down before I forgot.
[EDIT BELOW]
It's getting to be slightly difficult to make cuts for anything as this deck has been tested into the ground. I don't want this deck to be so tuned that it's "good". I want it to be fun to pilot/play against. As I've tested I've run into some cards that could be cut due to being oppressive/not fun.
Torment of Hailfire: I initially took out Exsaguinate for this, because it was just an "I win" card. The deck is capable of generating an absurd (non-infinite) amount of mana. In theory its a fun win-con, but like Gary, this card just got boring. I figured replacing it with a less "I win" card would be ok, but I was wrong. I just didn't ever want to cast it. I don't know yet what I'm going to replace this with, but it will be replaced with my WAR updates. Razaketh, the Foulblooded: This card is really, REALLY good. I never fully tested with it, but assumed it would be ok. Boy was I wrong. Was playing against RabidVacin and Raza was just gross. I felt horrible just tutoring up my entire deck, essentially, leaving RV to just watch me play with myself ( ). I hate when this deck plays out like that. I want interaction, I want to play the game with others. So, yeah, out Raza comes. I've already decided that ZomBontu will replace Raza.
I love the deck. Might I suggest Gravestorm? On turn 3, it is a good source of draw and grave hate. I cannot count how many cards I have drawn from this. Best of all, in a multiplayer setting you get to choose which opponent.
I love the deck. Might I suggest Gravestorm? On turn 3, it is a good source of draw and grave hate. I cannot count how many cards I have drawn from this. Best of all, in a multiplayer setting you get to choose which opponent.
Anywho. Yeah, I think Gravestorm has come up a few times. Since I'm running a small devotion package this card seems like a great fit for that. My issue is that .... honestly I don't know. 1 extra card a turn seems neat. I have quite a bit of draw in there now so something reusable would be cool. I may have to look into this card a bit. Sadly the list is VERY tight and finding things to take out is getting hard unless I'm taking tutors out for draw. I'll keep this in my back pocket to maybe upgrade a weaker draw spell.
Game 3: Jhoira Suspend (JS), Scion of the Ur-Dragon (5c), Mono-White Tariel (MT), Obby (me)
Scion has a fast start and begins slowly chewing all of our life totals. I'm holding him at Bay with my 8/8 Rune-Scarred Demon wearing a Nim Deathmantle. Jhoira is the first to go. Tariel dies his next attack. At my EoT, he Belbe's Portals a Scourge of the Throne. Scion becomes Moltensteel Dragon. He drops his life to below mine via Motlensteel and gets me on 2 attacks.
Game 4: Jhoira Suspend (JS), Scion of the Ur-Dragon (5c), Mono-White Tariel (MT), Obby (me)
This game starts like the other one, except when Scion goes after Tariel he flashes in Angel of the Dire Hour. This exiles some 5 Dragons. Strangely, Jhoira is hosed and does nothing most of the game. Tariel and Scion are going back and forth. I'm at 15 life at this moment. Tariel keeps his life at 40 due to repeated use of Resolute Archangel. I have managed to get Gisa, Sidisi, Rune-Scarred Demon and Deathmantle in play. I have been tutoring up win-cons without them knowing. I drop Gray Merchant of Asphodel, draining everyone for 11, Gisa him, Deathmantle him, draining everyone for 11 again. Jhoira is at 2, Scion is at 5, and Tariel is at 40. I cast Abhorrent Overlord for 13 1/1 flyers. On his turn, Jhoira casts Kozilek and Tariel Path to Exiles it. Scion can't hit me, so he brings Tariel down to single digit life. On his turn, Tariel casts Damnation. I Deathmantle Gisa. On my turn I cast Kokusho, Phyrexian Reclamation Sidisi, and sacrifice Kokusho twice, killing every one else.
After I got home, I began to think about how inconsistent the deck was unless the Sidisi engine was running. So I pulled the deck apart and built around the engine parts. I made quite a few changes which I'll post when I get everything sorted out. I gold fished it a few times and the deck just plays differently now. The changes may not be permanent, but I liked how it played. It did not feel oppressive at all still, which is what I want. Another observation I had was that I did not cast Obby until the last game. I'd like to keep him as my commander, but should I?
[edit=added card tags]
URGEDH Biovisionary.dec BShirei WBSelenia
The brain is the muscle that pumps stupid through the body
Swamp > Vesuva - Others have said that duping a Cabal Coffers is a sweet play. I agree. So Moar manaz!
Swamp > Thespian's Stage - Read above.
Jet Medallion > Caged Sun - Since I'm shifting towards more of a "make more mana" style of play, Caged Sun seems like a better fit. It also fills the role that Bad Moon filled as a side effect.
Nevinyrral's Disk > Vedalken Orrey - Larry's Disk is cool, but I want to see what comboing out on my Opp's turn feels like. I ran this is Nekusar to wheel them on not-my-turn and it was rather fun. So same concept here only I can play more reactive instead of going on the offensive.
Haunted Crossroads > Thousand-Year Elixir - I like Crossroads, and it may come back in, but I want to try the Elixir to give my tappers a psuedo-haste.
Grim Haruspex > Skullclamp - Card draw for better card draw. I sac a ton of tokens once I have a few. Haruspex does not give me a draw off of that, but an equipped token not only gets bigger on the front end but has the change to draw me a couple. Helps with Ghoulcaller Gisa as well.
Smothering Abomination > Sensei's Divining Top - Top let me set up my draws to fit my needs. Even at its cost, the Abomination felt underwhelming.
Bad Moon > Lightning Greaves - Hastey, shrouded goodness. Both pairs of boots and the Elixir are to see if the haste aspect has an impact. If I'm gonna try it, might as well be as redundant as possible.
Malicious Affliction > Scour from Existence - Don't get me wrong, Affliction is really good. But it can't hit my problem permanents. Scour lets me hit anything.
Promise of Power > Swiftfoot Boots - Promise is essentially a draw 5 for 5. I'm just gonna try the boots in this slot.
With that out of the way on to what will probably turn into a bit wall of text. I don't want to follow suit with other big mana black decks for it to be my win con. Though Drana, Kalastria Bloodchief and Exsanguinate are both rather superb, and I don't plan on taking them out. Exsanguinate at least gives me secondary win-con outside of just "comboing". I don't think I can go infinite, but with lots of mana, I don't really need to. I think the deck is still not oppressive, which is what I want. It is also fun as hell to pilot, in my opinion, at least. I've not played the current build in a multiplayer setting, only goldfishing. So for the most part this really is all theory. What I did when refocusing it was keep cards that either pushed me towards building the engine or cards that worked with the engine. Removal was added that would help get rid of problem permanents that I cannot deal with. Currently I think the deck is rather vulnerable, I'm just not sure to what. The object, currently, is to use my early turns to set up the mana inputs and amass combo pieces whilst using what I can to keep myself alive. All the while attempting to be as nonthreatening as possible. I also don't honestly expect to win all the games, but when I do win, I want it to be glorious.
Though, I would really like to get some input in this section though. Below are questions that I've been asking myself since I deconstructed it down to the core. My thought process is really scattered so I'll do my best to organize this to make it easier to read.
White: Tokens, Sun Titan, Mine Excavation-like effects....
Blue: Draw, Control, ... (so far not the best of the bunch)
Red: Haste, ..... (not too far behind blue)
Green: Tokens, Regrowth, Sylvan Scrying-like effects, ...
URGEDH Biovisionary.dec BShirei WBSelenia
The brain is the muscle that pumps stupid through the body
Anyways, to answer your thoughts, in order:
1) Mono-Black big mana is an extremely powerful way to play mono-colors generally and Black has some of the stronger plays available to this type of strategy. I can think of at least 5 pieces that can double your mana, besides Cabal Coffers. The key here that I see missing is something to consistently do outside of the engine that you most commonly play (Deathmantle shenanigans) along with some utility (ie: card advantage and removal). You have Exsanguinate and Drana, but what about Geth, Lord of the Vault? I think if you add a few more elements that take advantage of your mana doublers, you will find that games will be less redundant, you'll flesh out your threat package, and you'll create different angles of attack.
2) I would recommend keeping it mono-Black, to take advantage of your big mana prodcution, but I would suggest making Oona, Queen of the Fae your general. You can still play mono-Black with all of your mana doublers, keep Cabal Coffers pure and unadulterated, and open up a few utility pieces that complement your Token strategy that seems to be the most common way for you to win the game. Dire Undercurrents, Memory Plunder, and Shadow of Doubt are the best ones to add. By making Oona your commander, you now have something to do with large amounts of mana if nothing else is going for oyu. Exiling opponents' spells is criminally undervalued in EDH because you're removing answers, combo pieces, and thin them out for a potential decking win. Oona makes Skullclamp utterly ridiculous and Dire Undercurrents becomes a legitimate way to guarantee a win with your Token strategy (it's hard to lose when your opponents have no cards in hand). Further, the Rogues are fliers! A legitimate swarm win can happen here. Oh, you also have access to have more mana rocks to accelerate you. I used to have a mono-Black Oona list, it's in my retired EDH list in my signature, and it could easily take over a game while not being especially threatening compared to Scion, Azami, Damia, or Derevi. I should check out my Oona list again, cause I don't remember what I had in it. It's post #221 in the thread I link to.
If you were to add an additional color and still use a token theme, White is the way to go with Teysa, the 3 CMC one. I like Oona better though, so you be the judge.
I hope this has given you some food for thought. Mono-Color decks should be more widespread, and I'm glad that Red and White got some Commander support cause they sucked as mono-Colors. Long live B/U/G as the superior colors of EDH!
UB Dralnu, Lich Lord
RBW [Primer]-Kaalia of the Vast
BUG [Primer]-Tasigur, the Golden Fang
GWU [Primer]-Arcades, the Strategist
WUB Primer-Aminatou, the Fateshifter
UBR Nicol Bolas, the Ravager
I'm running Magus of the Coffers, Nirkana Revenant, Crypt Ghast, Caged Sun, and Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx. I'm not currently running Gauntlet of Power since there are a couple of other Mono Black decks in my Meta, apparently. One is a Ghoulcaller Gisa Zombies and the other is Erebos, God of the Dead Good stuff. I honestly don't know what Erebos does since the only game I saw him he was busy not messing with me til I killed him. I'm not against redundancy, even with the games themselves. It makes the deck easier to pilot, but challenging to play. If that makes sense. I did consider Geth while I was pondering the direction I wanted to go here. My issue with him (and Ooona) is that they make me targets. Geth already has a name for himself since there is a Mono-Brown Geth deck running around that has been hated out. He's not very liked and would quickly make a big target of me sooner than I'd like. I'll probably try him out in my play testing once my testing partner is back at work. For me, the best removal is mass removal. While I can build back up probably faster than everyone else, I'm not sure I want to have to deal with that. Stripping the deck to the core allowed me to see what really is not needed to make things go. So adding in the Mass removal is not that big of an issue. So I may first try out some of the "destory everyone's stuff but yours" type of mass removal.
I remember the days of running sub-optimal generals and loose lists. Running Obby lets me relive those days. When I first played the deck (I lost that game, but was a silent threat the whole game), the other players were trying to tell me I should run something close to their list. Yet I utterly destroyed them when they decided to poke me. In the same breath they praised the deck for being off the beaten path. Though, an interesting thought would be to have a singular deck that can transform into a different deck with the substitution of cards. For instance have a Mono-B build, have a Mono-B Oona build, and maybe others so that the deck "isn't the same thing" whenever I play it. This will allow me to play the oddball obby, or quickly switch to a heavier exile/mill theme. Due to milling and such running rampant in my meta, people have begun dropping Eldrazi Titans to counter this. Oona might be set to handle this change. So, back on track here. I get the Undercurrents (oona's tokens trigger both halves) and the Memory Plunder (REALLY fun card), but Shadow of Doubt is essentially just a cantrip in my meta. Outside of my Big Boy decks, Fetches and tutors are not a very common thing. Which I find to be the craziest thing ever. I'm ok with this, but still. I like fliers. Which is why I love Abhorrent Overlord, 1/1 flying harpies. I did look at your Oona list and I did see a few cards that are interesting and may incorporate those into a tranformative Obby to Oona list. I really like the idea of a single list that can be changed to be a slightly different deck with the substitution of a few cards. I'll report back on my finding after a bit of testing.
Teysa, Orzhov Scion is interesting as well. With my sac shenanigans I could easily generate a few white spirits. Unlike Oona, I HAVE to actually dip into white for Teysa. I'm not against this, it's just something I'll Have to consider. I just don't want my deck to become some homogenized monstrosity that I'll end up hating. While I built my Nek from the ground up, he eventually became boring since the began to fall in line with a lot of the other decks. Obby is my brew (though he may have some stuff from other decks, I honestly don't know), I've not dug through decklists or posted on someone else's list. I want this to become its own thing. I've researched too much on Teysa that I'm afraid that I'd fall into the rut that is All other Teysa decks. Like you, I think Oona seems like the better fit for the Big Mana Black idea.
URGEDH Biovisionary.dec BShirei WBSelenia
The brain is the muscle that pumps stupid through the body
Oh! You can also have access to the only clone effect that a mono-Black can reasonably run: Phyrexian Metamorph! Boom.
Let your EDH juices flow. I respect your decision to keep your list unadulterated, so I won't press too many suggestions. I'm fond of watching how decks develop. For example, the Tasigur thread that's active here has been an interesting evolution that has been capped by Tasigur being a Reanimator list when it started as basically draw-go control. Best of luck!
You could also do an Ob Nixilis themed deck! Every version of Ob Nixilis that exists plus a few cards with quotes from him would be pretty fun to do too.
UB Dralnu, Lich Lord
RBW [Primer]-Kaalia of the Vast
BUG [Primer]-Tasigur, the Golden Fang
GWU [Primer]-Arcades, the Strategist
WUB Primer-Aminatou, the Fateshifter
UBR Nicol Bolas, the Ravager
Cheeri0sXWU
Reid Duke's Level One
Who's the Beatdown
Alt+0198=Æ
URGEDH Biovisionary.dec BShirei WBSelenia
The brain is the muscle that pumps stupid through the body
Thanks! I'll build it, and take it for a spin. I need to diverify, as people are getting mad at me for blowing up their lands, or vomiting elves on to the board in early turns. Time for something more grindy.
Cheeri0sXWU
Reid Duke's Level One
Who's the Beatdown
Alt+0198=Æ
URGEDH Biovisionary.dec BShirei WBSelenia
The brain is the muscle that pumps stupid through the body
Changes:
Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre > Steel Hellkite (6/1) - Oldamog is great. I love the removal tacked on, since I can hit problem permanents. Mana is not an issue in the deck, so that was not the reason to drop Ula. Exile still drops Ula, which is the problem. I can't reuse Ula if he's exiled. Steel Hellkite, on the other hand - lower cost, though probably less effective. The potential for reuse over the course of the game makes for an interesting card. This is an iffy change but I want to test this out fully before thinking I'm wrong about this. With the titans, you want them to hit the grave for the reshuffle effect. The problem with Ula is that he WILL get exiled (if I don't kill him first) due to him having Indestructible.
Gate to Phyrexia > Malevolent Awakening (5/21) - Gate, while a fun card, is not really that great. Yeah, I can nuke an arty during my upkeep, but I have to wait so long to do it. The removal of this card was also part of the reason for the Ula/SH switch. Awakening was tested, and the first game it got played it earned its spot. As such, I'm not upset about this trade. Also, Gate was the weakest card in the deck so this cut was the easiest I've done since its current build.
Testing:
Charcoal Diamond > Jet Medallion - The goal of the deck is to play a few spells on its turn. While the diamond is nice, I'd rather see if the Medallion is better at allowing us some additional castings of things a turn. I like the Medallion as it has come out, only to come back in. This being the second time even as a test.
Shriekmaw > Liliana of the Dark Realms - Shriekmaw is nice but with Gate gone, it feels like the weakest card in the deck. Terror on a body via evoke is nice as I just Phyrexian Reclamation it to do it again. The issue being that my meta has quite a few black decks, so it's not as good. Since we want to play as a big mana deck for explosive turns, why not have Lili get us some swamps. *IF* I happen to get her to Ult (not likely), then a non-saccing Lake of the Dead is nothing to scoff at.
Considering:
Deserted Temple - I like being able to reuse Coffers/Nykthos. This may be going in (added in without testing) after this round of testing.
Lake of the Dead - I love this card. Not sure it belongs in this deck. I do really like that fact that my lands become a sacrificial resource, but I'm not sure I want it in here. This will probably be tested after this round of testing.
Black Market - Moar manaz! See a theme here. The deck is mana intensive when things get going. The problem here is that this is a double edges sword for me. On the one hand the mana allows the deck to do its thing. On the other hand, this card could maybe make the deck become fairly oppressive. This will most likely get tested in the next round of testing.
Xiahou Dun, the One-Eyed - My issue is that if I lose my enchantments, the deck has a bit of a struggle. I really like that in this deck Xiahou is easily saccable/recurable. I like him a lot. I can't really come up with a reason to not put him in other than a monetary one. I may test with him since the Judge foils is not all that expensive.
Diabolic Intent - I would like to get my hands on one of these as it would easily replace Cruel Tutor. I don't think I need *another* tutor, but a better one that puts the card into my hand would be nice. 2 mana is the better than the 3 mana as well. Yes I can make a lot of mana, but the deck can chew through that.
So far, those are the changes. Not much was needed at the moment since the deck is rather tight in it's construction. There aren't very many cards that don't do anything to progress me forward. Everything has its place, so any other cuts will be hard.
When Iso said he wanted to help test Obby out in his meta, I packed the deck up and shipped it to him as soon as I could. My meta is soft, while his is not. This was a chance to get Obby out there and see what he can do. The second half of this experiment was to have Iso have no clue how the deck worked. I wanted him to pick it up and play it without any prior knowledge of what it’s supposed to do; I even asked him to not read this thread so as to not spoil anything. Not long after he got the deck he had 2 reports for me:
Those last two lines struck me the most. While the devotion can seem a bit weak, the deck is not meant to draw a big target. I want to look like I'm durdling whilst getting my "machine" going. If I'm draining 10-15 life from each opponent too soon then I'm no longer a non-threat but a target. So I'm rather Ok with that assessment. Another bit that I gathered was it looked like a big mana black deck that durdles instead of wins, even though it won. The titans are in there because they change the game when they stick. Annihilator just wrecks shop with an active Eldrazi.
So, big mana? Check. Nykthos getting 5 mana is odd, but keep in mind, this is only his second time playing the deck so he's making up how its supposed to play as he goes. 60 mana in a turn is nothing to scoff at. Grave Titan doing his thing, pooping out 2/2 zombies and Obby giving some life as well as pooping out 5/5 demons. So it's doing its thing. While it should be obvious, Phyrexian Tower + Skullclamp is a fun interaction I'd not thought about. The observation about Shriekmaw is how I feel about it. I find it more useful than Gate to Phyrexia, but not by much. It is probably the next thing I cut if I find something else to put in its spot. All that manaz and nothing to use it on? Ur doin it rong! In any case, he's been playing it like a big mana deck, which at it's core, it is not. So, the pile feels like a pile of sub-par cards that do nothing other than make manaz and doods. Nothing scary. So, I got what I wanted out of the initial playtests. Now to discuss Phyrexian Altar. It and cards like it will not make their way into Obby. The reason being that I don't want anything in here to be able to go infinite. With the right setup, Altar allows that to occur. With the amount I tutor in this deck, that "right setup" is not hard to pull off.
Brainstorming begins and we bounce ideas off of each other (Iso has yet to see me pilot the deck, thus revealing the combo-y nature of the durdles). Gate to Phyrexia was the first card we really discuss. Option are Viscera Seer, Carrion Feeder, Ob Nixilis, Unshackled, Grave Pact, Dictate of Erebos, Indulgent Tormentor, one-sided wraths, Bitter Ordeal (for Drana shenanigans), Black Market, and a few others. Iso has the following observation for me "It certainly excels at doing nothing until it has the resources for such :p". Which is partially true. I reply "The object is get all your resources and such. Then get the machine, then go off. Incremental gains to not be considered a threat." I've been vague about "the machine" so as to not give anything away as to what the combo really is. He guesses rather close, but leaves out the main tutor that gets the whole thing going, Sidisi, Undead Vizier + Nim Deathmantl. He is able to find a lot of the little complex pieces that i've smattered in the deck as support or win-cons. He decides to pull the deck apart and starts finding weird card choices (Sword of Feast and Famine, Vedalkin Orrey, etc). Seeing someone going through my deck like this makes a small part of me happy. "So yeah, the more I look at the deck, the more I understand how the cards work together. You've obviously put a lot of thought into making this work." A durdly complex deck that really does nothing but build resources.
Tossing Obby into the deep end. Sweet. Mana, mana, mana. So far so good. The most important part is "Yeah, it was a fun game - mostly because it felt like I was constantly on the verge of getting smashed but held on." This is how the deck usually plays out. Keeps your head in the game. Fun to pilot is my main concern. So far, so good.
This is also the point that I let Iso in on the basics of "the machine". Not sure how this will change how the plays the deck, but it's fun to have Obby being piloted by another person. This also gives me time to work on some decks. I'll for sure be posting one later since, like Obby, it will be going through my personal changes to fit my play style.
It seems Anafenza, the Foremost is just bad for us. Still, we have ways around that but it definitely hamstrings the deck. This game, it seems, Obby was the target due to "oh noez all da manaz". Which can happen with newer players not being able to correctly assess the threat. It does show what a deck can do when targeted like that, and Obby, while he lost still, seemed to have held out like he does.
My thoughts: I find this deck to be nearing a place where i can call it complete. I has a focus (get "The Machine" online), it's currently not oppressive, and it is rather fun to pilot. Since it is becoming more and more difficult to cut cards for other cards, I feel that "room for improvement" will only come with cards from new sets. I'm ok with this. I enjoy the deck currently and hope to keep it enjoyable for all parties involved. In any case, I do hope to make more updates as it gets played physically and online. Since this list is tighter than my Selenia list, I'm not personally concentrating on this pile. I may do so when i get it back, but for now I'm ok with watching someone else offer up thoughts on it. Since the list has been out of my hands, I feel that it is becoming a tighter and tighter list (for what I want it to do).
URGEDH Biovisionary.dec BShirei WBSelenia
The brain is the muscle that pumps stupid through the body
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
The deck itself changes very slightly, as the card changes are difficult to make. For me, this list is as tight as it can get due to the extensive testing I've (and iso) have put it through. Nevertheless, some changes are being made. Not many. (I'll update the OP with the deck list as it SHOULD be, not what I'm currently running).
Changes:
Crypt of Agadeem > Westvale Abbey: I've yet to play a game where the crypt makes more than a couple of mana. It's a good card in the right deck, unfortunately, this is not that deck. Not only does the Abbey make tokens, I can easily transform it to Ormendahl, Profane Prince.
Arcane Lighthouse > Homeward Path: The lighthouse was fantastic that one game a while back. Now, its just meh. My meta changed a bit since I was last there (lots more newer players). Creature theft is something I can't deal with outside of my 1 boardwipe. So, Path gives me the ability to regain control of my own critters. Yeah, I know, it does it for everyone. Still, this card is useful.
Cruel Tutor > Diabolic Intent: The more I thought about this swap, the more I realized that I needed to make it. Don't get me wrong, Tutor is great but being able to put the card in my hand is just better. Intent gives me an additional sac, to get Sidisi going, or just to find combo pieces. It's a stronger card, with no real drawback, so the swap was easy.
Shriekmaw > Noxious Gearhulk: This is one I've been considering since the Gearhulk was spoiled. While the Gearhulk is 1 more mana, it's ability to hit black and arty creatures is worth the added cost. I can't Evoke it like I could Shriekmaw, which I'm ok with as I rarely did that anyways, as I usually need the body anyway.
Testing:
I will say that the list I'm "running" is not the list I'm running. There are a couple of cards I'm missing to match up with this decklist, so it gives me a chance to test some cards out that I may not have considered. While I could just straight up purchase any card a need, I enjoy physically trading for all the parts. It allows me to be social, which is not one of my strongest attributes.
Nirkana Revenant > Sculpting Steel: I currently do not have the vamp, so testing Steel in its slot. Turning Steel into a Caged Sun one game. So yeaaaaah. Still, it will not be a permanent replacement.
Reanimate > Necropotence: The DethSkull! Necro is stupid good. This is the type of card I don't want to run as it paints a target on my back. With the newer players still learning, only the vets will understand the power here. The vets also leave me alone, as they know I play quirky decks ("Who wins a game with Near-Death Experinece?" ~guy at my LGS).
Vesuva > Lake of the Dead: Since I don't have a Vesuva, I figured now is a good time to test out the Lake. I've always loved the Lake. Ran it in my Mono-B Suicide deck many, MANY moons ago. Turning my swamps into psuedo-dark rituals seems fun. Will see how testing goes.
Considering:
Putting these here, as I don't want to forget about them
Deserted Temple - I like being able to reuse Coffers/Nykthos. This may be going in (added in without testing) after this round of testing. More like, when I can get my hands on one.
Xiahou Dun, the One-Eyed - My issue is that if I lose my enchantments, the deck has a bit of a struggle. I really like that in this deck Xiahou is easily saccable/recurable. I like him a lot. I can't really come up with a reason to not put him in other than a monetary one. I may test with him since the Judge foil is not all that expensive.
Razaketh, the Foulblooded - Reusable sac outlet. There have been times where I needed just one more sacrifice to keep the engine running. This guy gives me the ability to keep going until I run out of mana or life. The tutor part is nice as it allows me to get combo pieces. His 8 mana cost, is a bit restrictive, even for this deck.
Torment of Hailfire - In a big mana deck, this card can easily get out of hand. I need to test further to make sure it is worth inclusion.
Vindictive Lich: This card has a low CMC and is easy to kill (Skullclamp much?). This also means that it is a great candidate for inclusion in the 99. I need to get one and test it. I like the multiple modes that can hit up to 3 targets (discard and critter sac being the better 2).
URGEDH Biovisionary.dec BShirei WBSelenia
The brain is the muscle that pumps stupid through the body
Changes:
Sculpting Steel -> Reanimate: Now that I got my hands on one (thanks, iso), I can actually put it back in. Steel was fun, but was the weakest of the cards I put in to test.
Exsanguinate -> Torment of Hailfire: Exsanguinate is one of those cards that I hated casting because I could just win. On the surface the cards feel the same. They are not. Token strategies and enormous hand strategies can keep Torment of just outright winning. It feels more like a discard or boardwipe spell.
Gray Merchant of Asphodel -> Vindictive Lich: I'm crazy, I know. Gary is just too easy to abuse and just win. Not what I'm looking to do in this deck. I want to have fun, and looping Gary was not that. I think the fact that he easily scales to large numbers is why he feels too oppressive (this is the same reason I run Abhorrent Overlord, but creating a mass of tokens is better than just outright winning). I like cards that give me options, and the Lich does just that. Looping this guy could empty someone's hand, wipe someone's board and/or take someone down to 0. I really like the potential here. Oh, and he's clampable... BONUS!
Skeletal Scrying -> Twilight Prophet: There are a couple of things at play on this one. Firstly, I like having a higher creature count. By removing a spell and adding a creature, I'm keeping aligned with that. I tend to not want to use a lot of cards that sit in my grave as Scrying fodder. I've had times where I would draw 1 or 2 off of a grave that is 6 cards deep due to potential grave shenanigans. Finally, upon testing Prophet I've come to the conclusion that this card is bonkers. It's so easy to get the City's Blessing that it's both draw and life gain/drain... win-win in my books.
Vampiric Tutor -> Razaketh, the Foulblooded: I know I said that I'm working on removing more tutors, yet here I am switching a tutor for a tutor. Well, our buddy Rza here, is more than just a tutor. He's a wonderful sac outlet. I've been wanting to get this bastard in here for that reason.
Thoughts
Diabolic Tutor, Diabolic Intent, Demonic Tutor: I'm more ok with keeping the Intent in as the sac requirement is rather useful. For now these will stay in as I test. If I still feel that I'm having to shuffle a bit still, I'll start by cutting Demonic then Diabolic Tutor. For now though I'm just notating that I'm keeping an eye on these
Sidisi, Undead Vizier, Rune-Scarred Demon, Razaketh, the Foul Blooded: I will most likely be leaving these in as I'm not opposed to some tutoring (2 of these 3 are combo pieces), but being repeatable (again, same 2 cards) I'm ok with skimming some more spell tutors down for card draw or other interesting cards.
Necropotence: while this card is only in due to me needing a filler card, it was been amazing. It doesn't really draw the hate that I suspected it would. Since I want to move away from tutors, this seems like it would likely find a home here in a tutor's slot.
Vampiric Rites: I'm considering adding this as I decide which Tutors I'm going to cut. It is both a sac outlet and card draw, all wrapped up in a nice 1 mana package. As Iso stated (I chat with this guy waaaay too much, no?), "I'd rather have lots of tiny draws for less consistency but more value." This seems like a "value" that Obby wants to abide by.
I'm still looking at cards to see if there are other quirky or interesting cards that I've missed.
URGEDH Biovisionary.dec BShirei WBSelenia
The brain is the muscle that pumps stupid through the body
So, I'm not 100% sure what changes I've made as I've been solo testing, taking cards in and out and not taking my doc up to date of my changes. So, I'll just post here the changes that I've recently made, using the current posted deck as starting point (I'll update it here shortly):
Changes:
Grim Monolith -> Soldevi Adnate: Hear me out here. 2CMC rock for 2CMC critter rock/Sac outlet. I mean, yeah, summoning sickness. Keep in mind, I do have things that allow me to bypass sickness, so its not a big deal. I've also been trying to figure out how to take the Monolith out as I honestly feel I don't need it. I'd actually much rather have the sac outlet that can give me some mana to do things. I mean, the deck likes lots of mana to do things.
Diabolic Tutor ->Necropotence: Firstly, my list for tracking things is all kinds of broken, and the list posted here (soon to be updated) is also wrong. My physical deck is in pieces as I'm currently using parts of it in other decks. So verifying ANYTHING has been a hassle. In any case, at some point Nirkana Revenant was taken out for the skull, then put back in replacing the skull. Weird, I know. It might have been a time where I was trying to take proxies out of the physical deck. In any case, in wanting to minimize shuffling due to running lots of tutors I'm making this change. It saddens me to pull my altered Diabolic, but my Selenia deck can use it.
In there end, there were quite a few changes I needed to put into my doc as well as the first post here, and sometimes both places contradicted each other. That's what happens when I test and don't pay attention to what I'm doing.
While it doesn't seem like i did much, the main post will have a few changes. I'll try to get more games in online with a few of the users/mods here. Since I don't have to worry about proxies for online testing, I'll be working on the deck as it should be, not what I'm currently running in physical form.
Now, on to the short, one-sided game I had with RV this afternoon:
I start by mulling to 6 card hand with 3 lands, Bitterblossom and some other 4+ casting things. I'm on the draw. He gets a t2 Soldevi Adnate, I get a t2 Bitterblossom. I get a Phyrexian Reclamation into play, but I'm stuck on 3 lands. RV drops a Stronghold Assassin, which he turns into 3 mana via Adnate and casts Ob Nixilis, Unshackled. Not much happens for a couple of turns as I try to find that 4th land. I cast Sign in Blood and whiff on lands. He ends up getting a Harbinger of Night into play and that is essentially game as he drops a Reclamation of his own. His Obby is a healthy 9/9 and I'll get commander damaged out before I can do anything of use. From this I learned that Adnate is better than it looks and would work quite well in my build.
Since I can use it sac artifacts as well, I may test Spine of Ish Sah in the Scour From Existance slot. 7 mana removal spell for 7 mana artifact that can be used as Adnate fodder. For now, that's just a thought I have. Further testing is required.Edit: I'm an idiot and didn't quite read Soldevi Adnate properly. Nevertheless, its a great enabler for the deck.
URGEDH Biovisionary.dec BShirei WBSelenia
The brain is the muscle that pumps stupid through the body
Cards I'm considering:
Whisper, Blood Liturgist: While discussing a deck with Iso, Whisper came up. He's running Whisper in his Endrek deck and has enjoyed it. I do want to up my creature counts and drop my non creatures. This makes me want to swap Victimize for it, but I feel Victimize is still the better card. I'll probably test Whisper somewhere to see how it plays.
Yawgmoth's Vile Offering: Since this card was spoiled, I've wanted it. I do run a few Legends, all of which are combo pieces or enablers, so I shouldn't have too much of an issue casting this. Being able to hit any grave for the reanimation is great. Having removal tacked on is just icing on the cake.
Cabal Stronghold: Cabal Coffers is great. This card is not Coffers, but I feel it has potential. 24 of my lands are basic swamps so I may test it to find out if I'm right or wrong on my assessment. The 3 mana activation might also be its downfall.
URGEDH Biovisionary.dec BShirei WBSelenia
The brain is the muscle that pumps stupid through the body
Bankrupt in Blood, Blood Divination, Costly Plunder: These "Sac some amount of critters, draw cards" cards are interesting. Since I've been pulling away from tutors in general, these are rather interesting to me. I poop out a few tokens so I have many expendable critters. They also make for good sac outlets to get things going.
Helm of the Host: This card is just gross. There are lots of things I'd love to dupe each turn. It also creates sac fodder for things, which is always a good thing.
Priest of Forgotten Gods: I can't tell if this is good or if just "does things". Either way, for the low, low cost of tapping and saccing a pair of dopes, stuff happens. I like the mana and card draw. It's like a crappier Phyrexian Tower that does other things.
Bolas's Citadel: This card is bonkers. It might go against the spirit of this deck (make fun, not oppression). I just can't keep my eyes off of it. I'm pretty sure this should be run in a good majority of black decks.
Command the Dreadhorde: This seems like a solid card to recur something or just pull a bunch of crap out of the any grave. I may test this in my Beacon of Unrest slot. I just want to see if it's worth including.
The Elderspell: This is going to be a meta call. It's been a while since I've physically played at my LGS, and it being a college town, I can only assume that the meta will shift. I may keep one on hand as being able to tick Ob-Nixilis of the Black Oath up would be nice. This will just destroy Super Friends strategies as well. So we'll see.
Finale of Eternity: I can generate absurd amounts of mana here (non-infinite). Removal + Mass Rez seems like a good thing. 12 mana is a bit rough, but it wouldn't hurt to try.
God-Eternal Bontu: So, I've been trying to figure out what to put in place of Razaketh, the Foulblooded. Raza is stupidly good. It just goes against how I want this deck to play. Iso made the suggestion to me and when I really looked at it, Bontu kind of fills the same role Raza does. Mass sac outlet and cards to hand. As I've stated, I'm trying to move away from tutors (I still have a few, I'm not that crazy) and Bontu helps in that aspect.
I may edit this post with more thoughts when I get a chance, just wanted to put my initial thoughts down before I forgot.
[EDIT BELOW]
It's getting to be slightly difficult to make cuts for anything as this deck has been tested into the ground. I don't want this deck to be so tuned that it's "good". I want it to be fun to pilot/play against. As I've tested I've run into some cards that could be cut due to being oppressive/not fun.
Torment of Hailfire: I initially took out Exsaguinate for this, because it was just an "I win" card. The deck is capable of generating an absurd (non-infinite) amount of mana. In theory its a fun win-con, but like Gary, this card just got boring. I figured replacing it with a less "I win" card would be ok, but I was wrong. I just didn't ever want to cast it. I don't know yet what I'm going to replace this with, but it will be replaced with my WAR updates.
Razaketh, the Foulblooded: This card is really, REALLY good. I never fully tested with it, but assumed it would be ok. Boy was I wrong. Was playing against RabidVacin and Raza was just gross. I felt horrible just tutoring up my entire deck, essentially, leaving RV to just watch me play with myself ( ). I hate when this deck plays out like that. I want interaction, I want to play the game with others. So, yeah, out Raza comes. I've already decided that ZomBontu will replace Raza.
I may pull Demonic Tutor as I test cards. I still have Whisper, Blood Liturgist, Yawgmoth's Vile Offering and Cabal Stronghold that I've been meaning to test.
URGEDH Biovisionary.dec BShirei WBSelenia
The brain is the muscle that pumps stupid through the body
Anywho. Yeah, I think Gravestorm has come up a few times. Since I'm running a small devotion package this card seems like a great fit for that. My issue is that .... honestly I don't know. 1 extra card a turn seems neat. I have quite a bit of draw in there now so something reusable would be cool. I may have to look into this card a bit. Sadly the list is VERY tight and finding things to take out is getting hard unless I'm taking tutors out for draw. I'll keep this in my back pocket to maybe upgrade a weaker draw spell.
URGEDH Biovisionary.dec BShirei WBSelenia
The brain is the muscle that pumps stupid through the body