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Also I'm reconsidering Aleatory again, which I'd cut long ago. If we need a setup turn, maybe we get lucky and can do it on an opponent's turn, but otherwise we can do it on our turn by just turning one creature sideways. It'll probably be in my short list of flex cards to play around with eventually.
I like the new Krenko. And I agree, the set is bringing a lot of goodies to Zada especially in cheap spells that can be copied with Zada as well as more ways to create creature tokens in monoR. This set is looking so good for so many EDH decks I have, I might end up just buying a box and drafting the set while also getting the cards I need for my decks. Anything else I don't get I can trade for.
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Finale of Promise looks pretty decent. It's not going to be very useful for X=10 because Zada won't radiate the copies, but it's probably better than Shreds of Sanity, especially for 1-2 cmc spells.
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Are you even kidding me?!?!?! This is an autoinclude if there were ever any one. It pumps creatures and gives them haste for a measly 1R (which can also serve as a mana sink to further pump the horde); it's a selective Tolarian Winds when it enters the battlefield, meaning you can discard all your lands and/or other things you don't need and then draw that many cards); when it dies, you get to magmaquake opponents by the amount of lands in your graveyard (which tends to be a lot in this deck). Oh, and if that bonus ability weren't enough, it's on a body so it can get another copy of spells thanks to Zada. Epic!
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Apparently with Modern Horizons rule updates splice might not work like it used to with this deck. Meaning that if you splice Desperate Ritual on Unnatural Speed the splice effect won't be applied to the copies of Unnatural Speed. Hopefully I've misinterpreted this rule and Zada can still abuse the 'splice onto arcane' mechanic. Otherwise, the once glorious jank will only exist in the past...
My YouTube Channel: The Commander Tavern - a channel I just started where I'll post deck techs and gameplays. Please support by checking it out. Maybe you'll like its content and subscribe! Thanks!
Apparently with Modern Horizons rule updates splice might not work like it used to with this deck. Meaning that if you splice Desperate Ritual on Unnatural Speed the splice effect won't be applied to the copies of Unnatural Speed. Hopefully I've misinterpreted this rule and Zada can still abuse the 'splice onto arcane' mechanic. Otherwise, the once glorious jank will only exist in the past...
I think you've misinterpreted. The only relevant thing I could find in the release notes was this, among the rulings on the cards in the set that have Splice:
If a spell is copied, choices made while casting it are copied, so the copy will have the same abilities spliced onto it as the original.
Combine this with the fact that you splice onto a cast spell as you cast it. When you're done casting it is when Zada's trigger will be put on the stack, so everything is already spliced when her ability finally copies the spell.
With the rule update for Modern Horizons, splicing a card onto another spell is a text-changing effect (C.R. 612.8, 702.46a, 702.46c). And like other text-changing effects, the splice effect doesn't carry over to copies of the spell (C.R. 706.2) — this is so even though a "copy of a spell ... copies ... all decisions made for" the original spell, including whether one or more cards were spliced onto the original spell (C.R. 706.10).
Before Modern Horizons, splice meant, in part: "... copy this card's text box onto that spell [etc.]" (C.R. 702.46a, as was in effect in War of the Spark). Now it means, in part: "... that spell gains the text of this card's rules text [etc.]" (C.R. 702.46a, as is now in effect).
Apparently with Modern Horizons rule updates splice might not work like it used to with this deck. Meaning that if you splice Desperate Ritual on Unnatural Speed the splice effect won't be applied to the copies of Unnatural Speed. Hopefully I've misinterpreted this rule and Zada can still abuse the 'splice onto arcane' mechanic. Otherwise, the once glorious jank will only exist in the past...
I think you've misinterpreted. The only relevant thing I could find in the release notes was this, among the rulings on the cards in the set that have Splice:
If a spell is copied, choices made while casting it are copied, so the copy will have the same abilities spliced onto it as the original.
Combine this with the fact that you splice onto a cast spell as you cast it. When you're done casting it is when Zada's trigger will be put on the stack, so everything is already spliced when her ability finally copies the spell.
I had the same exact reasoning as you did: splice is done as it's cast and Zada triggers when it's cast, meaning the spell Zada copies has the splice effect. However, I asked this in the Rules Forum and was corrected; the copies no longer carry the spliced effect like it used to.
This annoys me greatly. WotC was already heavily criticized with the splice mechanic for being too narrow and parasitic. Then, with copy effects there's a way to make that trash into treasure with some spicy jank and then they go and make it even worse than what it originally was. What gives?!
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2. I don't think peteroupc is right. Even in comment #17 of your rules thread here he says that Overload's text-changing effect isn't copied (implying that copies won't be Overloaded I guess), but also links to a thread that says they are. I think he's just hung up on the text-changing part. Shiffrin even says in that third Twitter thread that Overload is copied.
The way I interpret this is that the resultant text-change is itself not directly copied, but the choice to splice and what was spliced are copied which has the result of performing the text-change on each copy separately. So we're still good, but keep those tweets on hand if you run the Splice package.
2. I don't think peteroupc is right. Even in comment #17 of your rules thread here he says that Overload's text-changing effect isn't copied (implying that copies won't be Overloaded I guess), but also links to a thread that says they are. I think he's just hung up on the text-changing part. Shiffrin even says in that third Twitter thread that Overload is copied.
The way I interpret this is that the resultant text-change is itself not directly copied, but the choice to splice and what was spliced are copied which has the result of performing the text-change on each copy separately. So we're still good, but keep those tweets on hand if you run the Splice package.
Okay, so I think that with the first tweet you linked to, spliced spells that are copied with Zada will copy the spell as is, including the text changed due to splice, right? Man, all this back and forth has me really confused and bummed out...
My YouTube Channel: The Commander Tavern - a channel I just started where I'll post deck techs and gameplays. Please support by checking it out. Maybe you'll like its content and subscribe! Thanks!
2. I don't think peteroupc is right. Even in comment #17 of your rules thread here he says that Overload's text-changing effect isn't copied (implying that copies won't be Overloaded I guess), but also links to a thread that says they are. I think he's just hung up on the text-changing part. Shiffrin even says in that third Twitter thread that Overload is copied.
The way I interpret this is that the resultant text-change is itself not directly copied, but the choice to splice and what was spliced are copied which has the result of performing the text-change on each copy separately. So we're still good, but keep those tweets on hand if you run the Splice package.
Okay, so I think that with the first tweet you linked to, spliced spells that are copied with Zada will copy the spell as is, including the text changed due to splice, right? Man, all this back and forth has me really confused and bummed out...
"including the text changed due to splice" — Technically no, I think, but only because you said "text changed". We know that text-changing effects don't copy, but choices such as splicing do copy (and according to Eli Shiffrin everything should still work how we expect).
Here's how I imagine it working a bit more step-by-step with this splices-copy-but-text-changes-don't business. This may not be 100% accurate, but it's what I'm using to make sense of this still-working-but-differently-now:
You cast Unnatural Speed and while casting choose to spliceDesperate Ritual and Overblaze onto it. The splicing changes the text of the spell on the stack to add both spliced spells' texts. So now that spell, Unnatural Speed, splices: Desperate Ritual, Overblaze says,
"Target creature gains haste until end of turn. Add RRR. Each time target permanent would deal damage to a permanent or player this turn, it deals double that damage to that permanent or player instead."
You target Zada with both targets in the text.
Zada's trigger goes on the stack, resolves, and copies the spell to all applicable creatures you control.
Imagine that each of those copies initially look like Unnatural Speed, splices: Desperate Ritual, Overblaze because the choices got copied, but the copied text is initially just,
"Target creature gains haste until end of turn."
Then the splices of each copy, individually, kick in and change the text of the spell they're attached to (before the copying is finished) to make sure it says,
"Target creature gains haste until end of turn. Add RRR. Each time target permanent would deal damage to a permanent or player this turn, it deals double that damage to that permanent or player instead."
So basically I imagine the copied splicing choices acting look proofreaders going, "One sec, just gotta fix this before we can move on."
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I'm uncertain on the "more polished" part. They have been recently refining the rules in some ways, but anytime they have to clarify how things work with a ruling on each relevant card, to me that says something's not inherently clear. I don't know what the impetus behind the splice revision was.
I'm uncertain on the "more polished" part. They have been recently refining the rules in some ways, but anytime they have to clarify how things work with a ruling on each relevant card, to me that says something's not inherently clear. I don't know what the impetus behind the splice revision was.
Yeah, I feel the same way. As long as we can keep abusing the jankiness of it with Zada, I'll be happy.
My YouTube Channel: The Commander Tavern - a channel I just started where I'll post deck techs and gameplays. Please support by checking it out. Maybe you'll like its content and subscribe! Thanks!
Core Set 2020 Cards: Scampering Scorcher - Another good token producer that hasn't been mentioned yet. Glint-Horn Buccaneer - For when you draw a bunch of cards and run out of mana. End your turn and kill everyone on the discard. Sort of like Psychosis Crawler in reverse.
Core Set 2020 Cards: Scampering Scorcher - Another good token producer that hasn't been mentioned yet. Glint-Horn Buccaneer - For when you draw a bunch of cards and run out of mana. End your turn and kill everyone on the discard. Sort of like Psychosis Crawler in reverse.
I concur with your assessment. The great thing about Scampering Scorcher besides being 3 1/1's for 3R is that if you have other elementals in play thanks to Young Pyromancer or Tilonalli's Summoner, they're gonna get haste.
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Edit: Also a bit of potential in this one.
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R Zada Arcane Storm
RBU Marchesa
GWU Estrid
GWR Samut?
URB Kess
(R/W)(U/B) Akiri & Silas
BWR Alesha
R Neheb Dragons
G Nylea Wurms
W Darien
U Tetsuko
BGU [Primer] Sidisi, Brood Tyrant BGU | BG [Primer] Mazirek, Kraul Death Priest BG | G [Primer] Polukranos, World Eater G
My YouTube Channel:
The Commander Tavern - a channel I just started where I'll post deck techs and gameplays. Please support by checking it out. Maybe you'll like its content and subscribe! Thanks!
Kindof turning into a really good set for Zada, short of another Expedite (which we almost got) or Heat Shimmer.
Also I'm reconsidering Aleatory again, which I'd cut long ago. If we need a setup turn, maybe we get lucky and can do it on an opponent's turn, but otherwise we can do it on our turn by just turning one creature sideways. It'll probably be in my short list of flex cards to play around with eventually.
old thread
old thread
old thread
R Zada Arcane Storm
RBU Marchesa
GWU Estrid
GWR Samut?
URB Kess
(R/W)(U/B) Akiri & Silas
BWR Alesha
R Neheb Dragons
G Nylea Wurms
W Darien
U Tetsuko
BGU [Primer] Sidisi, Brood Tyrant BGU | BG [Primer] Mazirek, Kraul Death Priest BG | G [Primer] Polukranos, World Eater G
My YouTube Channel:
The Commander Tavern - a channel I just started where I'll post deck techs and gameplays. Please support by checking it out. Maybe you'll like its content and subscribe! Thanks!
The fact that both new cantrip/scry are instant helps added flexibility between mana cost and responsiveness. Weaving scry and cantrips becomes easier
Kemba | Linvala | Talrand | Geth | Krenko | Zada | Patron of the Orochi | Medomai | Athreos | Gisela | Trostani | Nin | Silumgar | Kaervek | Jarad | Xenagos | Sydri | Narset | Roon | Zurgo | Ghave | Marath | Uril | Tasigur | Animar | Riku | Riku | Sek'Kuar | Cromat
old thread
old thread
old thread
R Zada Arcane Storm
RBU Marchesa
GWU Estrid
GWR Samut?
URB Kess
(R/W)(U/B) Akiri & Silas
BWR Alesha
R Neheb Dragons
G Nylea Wurms
W Darien
U Tetsuko
Guys. Guys! GUYS!
Just gonna leave this (Fists of Flame) here and make all Zada players' day.
WHAT!?!?!? That's crazy!!! And here I was excited about Goblin War Party.
BGU [Primer] Sidisi, Brood Tyrant BGU | BG [Primer] Mazirek, Kraul Death Priest BG | G [Primer] Polukranos, World Eater G
My YouTube Channel:
The Commander Tavern - a channel I just started where I'll post deck techs and gameplays. Please support by checking it out. Maybe you'll like its content and subscribe! Thanks!
Kemba | Linvala | Talrand | Geth | Krenko | Zada | Patron of the Orochi | Medomai | Athreos | Gisela | Trostani | Nin | Silumgar | Kaervek | Jarad | Xenagos | Sydri | Narset | Roon | Zurgo | Ghave | Marath | Uril | Tasigur | Animar | Riku | Riku | Sek'Kuar | Cromat
Are you even kidding me?!?!?! This is an autoinclude if there were ever any one. It pumps creatures and gives them haste for a measly 1R (which can also serve as a mana sink to further pump the horde); it's a selective Tolarian Winds when it enters the battlefield, meaning you can discard all your lands and/or other things you don't need and then draw that many cards); when it dies, you get to magmaquake opponents by the amount of lands in your graveyard (which tends to be a lot in this deck). Oh, and if that bonus ability weren't enough, it's on a body so it can get another copy of spells thanks to Zada. Epic!
BGU [Primer] Sidisi, Brood Tyrant BGU | BG [Primer] Mazirek, Kraul Death Priest BG | G [Primer] Polukranos, World Eater G
My YouTube Channel:
The Commander Tavern - a channel I just started where I'll post deck techs and gameplays. Please support by checking it out. Maybe you'll like its content and subscribe! Thanks!
But yeah, that one rocks.
old thread
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R Zada Arcane Storm
RBU Marchesa
GWU Estrid
GWR Samut?
URB Kess
(R/W)(U/B) Akiri & Silas
BWR Alesha
R Neheb Dragons
G Nylea Wurms
W Darien
U Tetsuko
BGU [Primer] Sidisi, Brood Tyrant BGU | BG [Primer] Mazirek, Kraul Death Priest BG | G [Primer] Polukranos, World Eater G
My YouTube Channel:
The Commander Tavern - a channel I just started where I'll post deck techs and gameplays. Please support by checking it out. Maybe you'll like its content and subscribe! Thanks!
old thread
old thread
old thread
R Zada Arcane Storm
RBU Marchesa
GWU Estrid
GWR Samut?
URB Kess
(R/W)(U/B) Akiri & Silas
BWR Alesha
R Neheb Dragons
G Nylea Wurms
W Darien
U Tetsuko
Before Modern Horizons, splice meant, in part: "... copy this card's text box onto that spell [etc.]" (C.R. 702.46a, as was in effect in War of the Spark). Now it means, in part: "... that spell gains the text of this card's rules text [etc.]" (C.R. 702.46a, as is now in effect).
See also this thread.
I had the same exact reasoning as you did: splice is done as it's cast and Zada triggers when it's cast, meaning the spell Zada copies has the splice effect. However, I asked this in the Rules Forum and was corrected; the copies no longer carry the spliced effect like it used to.
This annoys me greatly. WotC was already heavily criticized with the splice mechanic for being too narrow and parasitic. Then, with copy effects there's a way to make that trash into treasure with some spicy jank and then they go and make it even worse than what it originally was. What gives?!
BGU [Primer] Sidisi, Brood Tyrant BGU | BG [Primer] Mazirek, Kraul Death Priest BG | G [Primer] Polukranos, World Eater G
My YouTube Channel:
The Commander Tavern - a channel I just started where I'll post deck techs and gameplays. Please support by checking it out. Maybe you'll like its content and subscribe! Thanks!
Edit: Found the rules thread you alluded to. I'll read up on it tomorrow.
old thread
old thread
old thread
R Zada Arcane Storm
RBU Marchesa
GWU Estrid
GWR Samut?
URB Kess
(R/W)(U/B) Akiri & Silas
BWR Alesha
R Neheb Dragons
G Nylea Wurms
W Darien
U Tetsuko
1. Pretty sure Eli Shiffrin's (Magic Rules Manager) clarifications override anybody's opinions in that thread:
The way I interpret this is that the resultant text-change is itself not directly copied, but the choice to splice and what was spliced are copied which has the result of performing the text-change on each copy separately. So we're still good, but keep those tweets on hand if you run the Splice package.
old thread
old thread
old thread
R Zada Arcane Storm
RBU Marchesa
GWU Estrid
GWR Samut?
URB Kess
(R/W)(U/B) Akiri & Silas
BWR Alesha
R Neheb Dragons
G Nylea Wurms
W Darien
U Tetsuko
Okay, so I think that with the first tweet you linked to, spliced spells that are copied with Zada will copy the spell as is, including the text changed due to splice, right? Man, all this back and forth has me really confused and bummed out...
BGU [Primer] Sidisi, Brood Tyrant BGU | BG [Primer] Mazirek, Kraul Death Priest BG | G [Primer] Polukranos, World Eater G
My YouTube Channel:
The Commander Tavern - a channel I just started where I'll post deck techs and gameplays. Please support by checking it out. Maybe you'll like its content and subscribe! Thanks!
Here's how I imagine it working a bit more step-by-step with this splices-copy-but-text-changes-don't business. This may not be 100% accurate, but it's what I'm using to make sense of this still-working-but-differently-now:
old thread
old thread
old thread
R Zada Arcane Storm
RBU Marchesa
GWU Estrid
GWR Samut?
URB Kess
(R/W)(U/B) Akiri & Silas
BWR Alesha
R Neheb Dragons
G Nylea Wurms
W Darien
U Tetsuko
BGU [Primer] Sidisi, Brood Tyrant BGU | BG [Primer] Mazirek, Kraul Death Priest BG | G [Primer] Polukranos, World Eater G
My YouTube Channel:
The Commander Tavern - a channel I just started where I'll post deck techs and gameplays. Please support by checking it out. Maybe you'll like its content and subscribe! Thanks!
old thread
old thread
old thread
R Zada Arcane Storm
RBU Marchesa
GWU Estrid
GWR Samut?
URB Kess
(R/W)(U/B) Akiri & Silas
BWR Alesha
R Neheb Dragons
G Nylea Wurms
W Darien
U Tetsuko
Yeah, I feel the same way. As long as we can keep abusing the jankiness of it with Zada, I'll be happy.
BGU [Primer] Sidisi, Brood Tyrant BGU | BG [Primer] Mazirek, Kraul Death Priest BG | G [Primer] Polukranos, World Eater G
My YouTube Channel:
The Commander Tavern - a channel I just started where I'll post deck techs and gameplays. Please support by checking it out. Maybe you'll like its content and subscribe! Thanks!
Scampering Scorcher - Another good token producer that hasn't been mentioned yet.
Glint-Horn Buccaneer - For when you draw a bunch of cards and run out of mana. End your turn and kill everyone on the discard. Sort of like Psychosis Crawler in reverse.
Budget Modern: GStompyG | R8-WhackR
I concur with your assessment. The great thing about Scampering Scorcher besides being 3 1/1's for 3R is that if you have other elementals in play thanks to Young Pyromancer or Tilonalli's Summoner, they're gonna get haste.
BGU [Primer] Sidisi, Brood Tyrant BGU | BG [Primer] Mazirek, Kraul Death Priest BG | G [Primer] Polukranos, World Eater G
My YouTube Channel:
The Commander Tavern - a channel I just started where I'll post deck techs and gameplays. Please support by checking it out. Maybe you'll like its content and subscribe! Thanks!