Thanks for the response! It was quite helpful. Keep in mind I'm running an ultra-budget list, so many cards I consider might not make the cut on your list, might still make it onto mine.
My YouTube Channel: The Commander Tavern - a channel I just started where I'll post deck techs and gameplays. Please support by checking it out. Maybe you'll like its content and subscribe! Thanks!
If you really need mana on turn 4, Geosurge could work for getting some creatures in play. Geosurge -> Zada -> Priest of Urabrask and you have RRR left you can spend on anything.
Seething Song would be alright, but Infernal Plunge would be sacrificing a valuable resource at the time every creature and R is important when trying to go off. It's risky, but the whole deck is a glass cannon anyway.
Kindred Charge is definitely something I want to test out! Most of the creatures in the deck are goblins plus most of the tokens produced are goblins. Being able to copy each goblin and play and produce tokens that way for 6 mana is definitely something I would test! The deck needs solid token production in order to fully abuse Zada's ability.
My YouTube Channel: The Commander Tavern - a channel I just started where I'll post deck techs and gameplays. Please support by checking it out. Maybe you'll like its content and subscribe! Thanks!
I don't run any of those. Not sure anybody else does, either. But if you're interested in the reasoning and experience behind people's choices, you can search this thread for each card name and find the posts mentioning them.
I'm gonna test out the following swap: Fatal Frenzy out and Kindred Charge in.
My hypothesis being that Kindred Charge will be a great token generator. Most of my creatures are goblins and most of the tokens produced are goblins. For 4RR I can potentially double the amount of creatures I have in play.
My YouTube Channel: The Commander Tavern - a channel I just started where I'll post deck techs and gameplays. Please support by checking it out. Maybe you'll like its content and subscribe! Thanks!
I'm gonna test out the following swap: Fatal Frenzy out and Kindred Charge in.
My hypothesis being that Kindred Charge will be a great token generator. Most of my creatures are goblins and most of the tokens produced are goblins. For 4RR I can potentially double the amount of creatures I have in play.
I think it's a pretty good card, too. Wider is more efficient for this deck than taller. If nothing else, it can be chucked into exile for Chrome Mox or Blazing Shoal. But being able to recast it a couple different ways (provided mana production is online) is pretty good.
I'm gonna test out the following swap: Fatal Frenzy out and Kindred Charge in.
My hypothesis being that Kindred Charge will be a great token generator. Most of my creatures are goblins and most of the tokens produced are goblins. For 4RR I can potentially double the amount of creatures I have in play.
I think it's a pretty good card, too. Wider is more efficient for this deck than taller. If nothing else, it can be chucked into exile for Chrome Mox or Blazing Shoal. But being able to recast it a couple different ways (provided mana production is online) is pretty good.
My YouTube Channel: The Commander Tavern - a channel I just started where I'll post deck techs and gameplays. Please support by checking it out. Maybe you'll like its content and subscribe! Thanks!
If you choose "Giant" it will! And if I have him available I'm definitely picking "Giant" over "Goblin", especially if I have Twinflame and/or Heat Shimmer. Exponential effects ftw. (Slightly higher token yield if you Kin first choosing "Giant" and then Twin versus using Kin last.)
But yeah, between the two I'd probably want to slot Chancellor over Kin. Probably some other slots it may be able to fit.
If you choose "Giant" it will! And if I have him available I'm definitely picking "Giant" over "Goblin", especially if I have Twinflame and/or Heat Shimmer. Exponential effects ftw. (Slightly higher token yield if you Kin first choosing "Giant" and then Twin versus using Kin last.)
But yeah, between the two I'd probably want to slot Chancellor over Kin. Probably some other slots it may be able to fit.
Lol, yeah, but the chancellor would have to be in play for me to choose "giant" as the creature type for Kindred Charge. Either way, the card should definitely see some testing in order to determine if it lives up to its potential.
My YouTube Channel: The Commander Tavern - a channel I just started where I'll post deck techs and gameplays. Please support by checking it out. Maybe you'll like its content and subscribe! Thanks!
My YouTube Channel: The Commander Tavern - a channel I just started where I'll post deck techs and gameplays. Please support by checking it out. Maybe you'll like its content and subscribe! Thanks!
Ooh! Another 1cmc cantrip! It's at the cost of potentially killing off your creatures (similar to Zap) but it comes at the cost of speed (sorcery). It also grants trample. Definitely going into the deck. I'd have to see what to cut for it...
My YouTube Channel: The Commander Tavern - a channel I just started where I'll post deck techs and gameplays. Please support by checking it out. Maybe you'll like its content and subscribe! Thanks!
Zada has a big target on her head. I don't mind it when she gets killed, but it seems like every time I play she's either stolen or gets Imprisoned in the Moon. Without her, the deck is extraordinarily weak and not much fun to play. As such, I'm trying to figure out what kind of outs are available.
How do you handle it when Zada gets stolen?
How do you handle it when Zada is gets transformed by Lignify or [c]Darksteel Mutation[c]?
What about when she gets Imprisoned in the Moon or hit by Song of the Dryads?
Having sac outlets are a good way to respond while those are on the stack. And as far as costs, you can't get much better than Claws of Gix or High Market. P&K can only help you with Darksteel Mutation once it has settled. Your other cheap sacs: Skirk Prospector, Goblin Chirurgeon. The decklist linked in your signature shows those plus Spawning Pit. I used to run Traitorous Blood as a steal/untap/hast/trample effect, so a spell like that might be necessary. There's also Lightning Greaves. Or maybe switch up to one that builds up a bit more slowly and don't cast her until you can try to go off or at least get cards. Mages' Contest is probably out of the question.
Or maybe the solution isn't in the cards.
Zada has a big target on her head. I don't mind it when she gets killed, but it seems like every time I play she's either stolen or gets Imprisoned in the Moon. Without her, the deck is extraordinarily weak and not much fun to play. As such, I'm trying to figure out what kind of outs are available.
Is your playgroup trying to tell you something? The message could even be something along the lines of showing you how fragile it is in a, "why are you playing this silly thing," sort of way.
I had a game a long while back where Zada was removed various ways (none of them auras) 3 times. I wasn't hitting much acceleration and it was going to take 9R to cast her again. I recognized I was probably going to just be drawing a card per turn and playing land and making a couple tokens occasionally to add to my small handful because I was already running out of life. So I scooped. I had no fight left then.
How often do you have a go with Zada? Is it every time the group gets together? At least once a week? Once a month? How does the group behave in relation to other combo decks?
Thanks for the card suggestions and the thoughts. I also found Despotic Scepter, which looks like it could be even better than Claws of Gix since it can hit any permanent I own regardless of whether the opponent currently controls it or not.
Jaya Ballard is my main deck and I only pull Zada out on rare occasions to switch things up. Last spring, I only played Zada in 3 or 4 games. We don't play over the summer, so today was my first time playing Zada since last April. I only played Zada for one game tonight and it was against 4 other players that I had never played against prior to tonight, so it's unlikely they were trying to "send a message." Honestly, if they wanted to send a message to anyone, it would have been to the Brago deck that utterly crushed the table both times. I actually pulled Zada out for the second game specifically to try to combat his deck, but cast Imprisoned in the Moon on turn 4 right after I cast Zada.
@Myrmadillo
I have the same issues. Since you want to keep it so hyper budget, your options are very limited. If these situations are commonplace, then you may end up adding in Despotic Scepter and Mirrorwing Dragon. Keep in mind that they will probably swap out key cards to do so. Since these are used for when Zada gets inhibited, it'll be difficult to draw into them if you haven't been drawing through a lot of your deck. What about adding wheels to the deck as well? If you played cards that are a bit more expensive like Past in Flames and Mizzix's Mastery, then wheeling could potentially also be a good thing since you could then cast those spells in your graveyard after you've been digging for your responses (Mirrorwing Dragon and/or Despotic Scepter).
What I do to combat those effects is copy spells (Twinflame, Kindred Charge, and Heat Shimmer. If I draw into one or have one in hand, I just copy the enchanted Zada and keep the token. The token doesn't copy the aura effects. Another thing, as lyonhaert mentioned is to kill Zada before the aura gets attached (Siege-Gang Commander, Skirk Prospector, and Spikeshot Elder). I can also just use Chaos Warp on the already enchanted Zada in order to "shuffle it into deck" which is just sending it into the command zone instead. All these suggestions I made are cards I already run in the deck. They're useful on their own and they have their own purpose.
If Zada gets stolen, I only have one option: Chaos Warp. I would run Homeward Path since it would be only the third land that produces .. in the deck (the other two being Reliquary Tower and Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx). My meta isn't too keen on stealing creatures or permanents so that's one thing. Also, when I've played online in Cockatrice I haven't had Zada stolen that often either. People usually steal commanders to prevent you from using them more than to use it themselves. Zada's pretty useless unless you build your deck around it. People would rather steal worse threats. That being said, stealing Zada ruins our deck so if you're too ahead, people may steal it if they can just to get us out of the game. Homeward Path isn't that expensive now that it's been reprinted twice (the C16 version is at around $3). So I may consider it.
In summary, try to add things to the deck that are beneficial on their own in order to deal with Zada getting aura'ed out of the game. Zada getting aura'ed out of the game is annoying but I can deal with it somewhat efficiently. Things that are within your strict budget constrictions are difficult to conjure and you may sacrifice cards just to have them in the deck, but for the moment, it would appear that Mirrorwing Dragon is your safest bet. Unless that gets stolen or aura'ed out, as well.
My YouTube Channel: The Commander Tavern - a channel I just started where I'll post deck techs and gameplays. Please support by checking it out. Maybe you'll like its content and subscribe! Thanks!
My YouTube Channel: The Commander Tavern - a channel I just started where I'll post deck techs and gameplays. Please support by checking it out. Maybe you'll like its content and subscribe! Thanks!
Right now, I'm thinking that Mirrorwing Dragon and Sarkhan's Triumph to give me a second card to find him might be my best bet without disrupting the deck too much.
...or I can just start playing Knowledge Pool as a retaliation for when I can't get Zada back. That would even the playing field again.
My YouTube Channel: The Commander Tavern - a channel I just started where I'll post deck techs and gameplays. Please support by checking it out. Maybe you'll like its content and subscribe! Thanks!
Be aware that Twinflame will not work if Zada is stolen, but Heat Shimmer can give you a temporary copy of her you might be able to combo off with. Both of those work for Lignify/Darksteel Mutation.
Are you running any arcane spells? Desperate Ritual is ridiculous if you splice it onto arcane targeting Zada.
BGU [Primer] Sidisi, Brood Tyrant BGU | BG [Primer] Mazirek, Kraul Death Priest BG | G [Primer] Polukranos, World Eater G
My YouTube Channel:
The Commander Tavern - a channel I just started where I'll post deck techs and gameplays. Please support by checking it out. Maybe you'll like its content and subscribe! Thanks!
This is pretty close to what I'm using:
http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/commander-edh/multiplayer-commander-decklists/636797-zada-grinding-up-an-arcane-storm?comment=389
Budget Modern: GStompyG | R8-WhackR
Seething Song would be alright, but Infernal Plunge would be sacrificing a valuable resource at the time every creature and R is important when trying to go off. It's risky, but the whole deck is a glass cannon anyway.
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R Zada Arcane Storm
RBU Marchesa
GWU Estrid
GWR Samut?
URB Kess
(R/W)(U/B) Akiri & Silas
BWR Alesha
R Neheb Dragons
G Nylea Wurms
W Darien
U Tetsuko
BGU [Primer] Sidisi, Brood Tyrant BGU | BG [Primer] Mazirek, Kraul Death Priest BG | G [Primer] Polukranos, World Eater G
My YouTube Channel:
The Commander Tavern - a channel I just started where I'll post deck techs and gameplays. Please support by checking it out. Maybe you'll like its content and subscribe! Thanks!
Budget Modern: GStompyG | R8-WhackR
old thread
old thread
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R Zada Arcane Storm
RBU Marchesa
GWU Estrid
GWR Samut?
URB Kess
(R/W)(U/B) Akiri & Silas
BWR Alesha
R Neheb Dragons
G Nylea Wurms
W Darien
U Tetsuko
Fatal Frenzy out and Kindred Charge in.
My hypothesis being that Kindred Charge will be a great token generator. Most of my creatures are goblins and most of the tokens produced are goblins. For 4RR I can potentially double the amount of creatures I have in play.
BGU [Primer] Sidisi, Brood Tyrant BGU | BG [Primer] Mazirek, Kraul Death Priest BG | G [Primer] Polukranos, World Eater G
My YouTube Channel:
The Commander Tavern - a channel I just started where I'll post deck techs and gameplays. Please support by checking it out. Maybe you'll like its content and subscribe! Thanks!
Here's the link: https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/autocardanywhere/eobkhgkgoejnjaiofdmphhkemmomfabg?hl=en
Having said that, however, I feel like it would occupy Chancellor of the Forge's slot. And he gets even better with Twinflame.
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R Zada Arcane Storm
RBU Marchesa
GWU Estrid
GWR Samut?
URB Kess
(R/W)(U/B) Akiri & Silas
BWR Alesha
R Neheb Dragons
G Nylea Wurms
W Darien
U Tetsuko
Wide > Taller is my sentiments exactly for Zada. However, I don't think I'd swap out Chancellor of the Forge for Kindred Charge. If anything, it's quasi-redundant. Copying Chancellor of the Forge once it's in play is no joke. It's a shame that Kindred Charge won't necessarily copy it .
BGU [Primer] Sidisi, Brood Tyrant BGU | BG [Primer] Mazirek, Kraul Death Priest BG | G [Primer] Polukranos, World Eater G
My YouTube Channel:
The Commander Tavern - a channel I just started where I'll post deck techs and gameplays. Please support by checking it out. Maybe you'll like its content and subscribe! Thanks!
But yeah, between the two I'd probably want to slot Chancellor over Kin. Probably some other slots it may be able to fit.
old thread
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R Zada Arcane Storm
RBU Marchesa
GWU Estrid
GWR Samut?
URB Kess
(R/W)(U/B) Akiri & Silas
BWR Alesha
R Neheb Dragons
G Nylea Wurms
W Darien
U Tetsuko
Lol, yeah, but the chancellor would have to be in play for me to choose "giant" as the creature type for Kindred Charge. Either way, the card should definitely see some testing in order to determine if it lives up to its potential.
BGU [Primer] Sidisi, Brood Tyrant BGU | BG [Primer] Mazirek, Kraul Death Priest BG | G [Primer] Polukranos, World Eater G
My YouTube Channel:
The Commander Tavern - a channel I just started where I'll post deck techs and gameplays. Please support by checking it out. Maybe you'll like its content and subscribe! Thanks!
old thread
old thread
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R Zada Arcane Storm
RBU Marchesa
GWU Estrid
GWR Samut?
URB Kess
(R/W)(U/B) Akiri & Silas
BWR Alesha
R Neheb Dragons
G Nylea Wurms
W Darien
U Tetsuko
If copied multiple times, it can produce some mana advantage. But I don't think I'll be running it considering I don't even run Priest of Urabrask.
BGU [Primer] Sidisi, Brood Tyrant BGU | BG [Primer] Mazirek, Kraul Death Priest BG | G [Primer] Polukranos, World Eater G
My YouTube Channel:
The Commander Tavern - a channel I just started where I'll post deck techs and gameplays. Please support by checking it out. Maybe you'll like its content and subscribe! Thanks!
Dammit.
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R Zada Arcane Storm
RBU Marchesa
GWU Estrid
GWR Samut?
URB Kess
(R/W)(U/B) Akiri & Silas
BWR Alesha
R Neheb Dragons
G Nylea Wurms
W Darien
U Tetsuko
BGU [Primer] Sidisi, Brood Tyrant BGU | BG [Primer] Mazirek, Kraul Death Priest BG | G [Primer] Polukranos, World Eater G
My YouTube Channel:
The Commander Tavern - a channel I just started where I'll post deck techs and gameplays. Please support by checking it out. Maybe you'll like its content and subscribe! Thanks!
How do you handle it when Zada gets stolen?
How do you handle it when Zada is gets transformed by Lignify or [c]Darksteel Mutation[c]?
What about when she gets Imprisoned in the Moon or hit by Song of the Dryads?
I have a couple outs to kill her off when stolen or lignified (Pia and Kiran Nalaar, Spikeshot Elder/Goblin Matron), but I'm not sure if that's enough. Homeward Path is another option verses theft, but I'm still trying to keep this deck's budget as low as possible. I considered something like Red Elemental Blast since most of my trouble has been against blue players, but that doesn't handle Darksteel Mutation or Song of the Dryads. Playing Claws of Gix gives an out, but it doesn't really fit our game plan. I could throw in Akki Avalanchers or Devastating Summons or Hammer of Purphoros to combat Imprisoned on the Moon/Song of Dryads, but they still don't handle Darksteel Mutation. Are any of these cards worth trying?
I'm starting to wonder if the best plan is a back-up plan a la Mirrorwing Dragon/Sarkhan's Triumph.
Any suggestions on these issues would be greatly appreciated.
Budget Modern: GStompyG | R8-WhackR
Or maybe the solution isn't in the cards.
Is your playgroup trying to tell you something? The message could even be something along the lines of showing you how fragile it is in a, "why are you playing this silly thing," sort of way.
I had a game a long while back where Zada was removed various ways (none of them auras) 3 times. I wasn't hitting much acceleration and it was going to take 9R to cast her again. I recognized I was probably going to just be drawing a card per turn and playing land and making a couple tokens occasionally to add to my small handful because I was already running out of life. So I scooped. I had no fight left then.
How often do you have a go with Zada? Is it every time the group gets together? At least once a week? Once a month? How does the group behave in relation to other combo decks?
old thread
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R Zada Arcane Storm
RBU Marchesa
GWU Estrid
GWR Samut?
URB Kess
(R/W)(U/B) Akiri & Silas
BWR Alesha
R Neheb Dragons
G Nylea Wurms
W Darien
U Tetsuko
Jaya Ballard is my main deck and I only pull Zada out on rare occasions to switch things up. Last spring, I only played Zada in 3 or 4 games. We don't play over the summer, so today was my first time playing Zada since last April. I only played Zada for one game tonight and it was against 4 other players that I had never played against prior to tonight, so it's unlikely they were trying to "send a message." Honestly, if they wanted to send a message to anyone, it would have been to the Brago deck that utterly crushed the table both times. I actually pulled Zada out for the second game specifically to try to combat his deck, but cast Imprisoned in the Moon on turn 4 right after I cast Zada.
Budget Modern: GStompyG | R8-WhackR
I have the same issues. Since you want to keep it so hyper budget, your options are very limited. If these situations are commonplace, then you may end up adding in Despotic Scepter and Mirrorwing Dragon. Keep in mind that they will probably swap out key cards to do so. Since these are used for when Zada gets inhibited, it'll be difficult to draw into them if you haven't been drawing through a lot of your deck. What about adding wheels to the deck as well? If you played cards that are a bit more expensive like Past in Flames and Mizzix's Mastery, then wheeling could potentially also be a good thing since you could then cast those spells in your graveyard after you've been digging for your responses (Mirrorwing Dragon and/or Despotic Scepter).
What I do to combat those effects is copy spells (Twinflame, Kindred Charge, and Heat Shimmer. If I draw into one or have one in hand, I just copy the enchanted Zada and keep the token. The token doesn't copy the aura effects. Another thing, as lyonhaert mentioned is to kill Zada before the aura gets attached (Siege-Gang Commander, Skirk Prospector,
and Spikeshot Elder). I can also just use Chaos Warp on the already enchanted Zada in order to "shuffle it into deck" which is just sending it into the command zone instead. All these suggestions I made are cards I already run in the deck. They're useful on their own and they have their own purpose.If Zada gets stolen, I only have one option: Chaos Warp. I would run Homeward Path since it would be only the third land that produces .. in the deck (the other two being Reliquary Tower and Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx). My meta isn't too keen on stealing creatures or permanents so that's one thing. Also, when I've played online in Cockatrice I haven't had Zada stolen that often either. People usually steal commanders to prevent you from using them more than to use it themselves. Zada's pretty useless unless you build your deck around it. People would rather steal worse threats. That being said, stealing Zada ruins our deck so if you're too ahead, people may steal it if they can just to get us out of the game. Homeward Path isn't that expensive now that it's been reprinted twice (the C16 version is at around $3). So I may consider it.
In summary, try to add things to the deck that are beneficial on their own in order to deal with Zada getting aura'ed out of the game. Zada getting aura'ed out of the game is annoying but I can deal with it somewhat efficiently. Things that are within your strict budget constrictions are difficult to conjure and you may sacrifice cards just to have them in the deck, but for the moment, it would appear that Mirrorwing Dragon is your safest bet. Unless that gets stolen or aura'ed out, as well.
BGU [Primer] Sidisi, Brood Tyrant BGU | BG [Primer] Mazirek, Kraul Death Priest BG | G [Primer] Polukranos, World Eater G
My YouTube Channel:
The Commander Tavern - a channel I just started where I'll post deck techs and gameplays. Please support by checking it out. Maybe you'll like its content and subscribe! Thanks!
old thread
old thread
old thread
R Zada Arcane Storm
RBU Marchesa
GWU Estrid
GWR Samut?
URB Kess
(R/W)(U/B) Akiri & Silas
BWR Alesha
R Neheb Dragons
G Nylea Wurms
W Darien
U Tetsuko
True, you'd need to have Spikeshot Elder with at least 3 power before using its ability or 3RRRRRR available to kill it in response.
BGU [Primer] Sidisi, Brood Tyrant BGU | BG [Primer] Mazirek, Kraul Death Priest BG | G [Primer] Polukranos, World Eater G
My YouTube Channel:
The Commander Tavern - a channel I just started where I'll post deck techs and gameplays. Please support by checking it out. Maybe you'll like its content and subscribe! Thanks!
As far as Spikeshot Elder, I was thinking of him more in terms of pumping him once and then shooting Zada after she had been stolen.
I'm hoping to acquire Kari Zev's Expertise, so that would enable me to steal Zada back for a turn. I do have an extra Reforge the Soul and a Swiftfoot Boots hanging around that I'll consider as well.
Right now, I'm thinking that Mirrorwing Dragon and Sarkhan's Triumph to give me a second card to find him might be my best bet without disrupting the deck too much.
...or I can just start playing Knowledge Pool as a retaliation for when I can't get Zada back. That would even the playing field again.
Budget Modern: GStompyG | R8-WhackR
BGU [Primer] Sidisi, Brood Tyrant BGU | BG [Primer] Mazirek, Kraul Death Priest BG | G [Primer] Polukranos, World Eater G
My YouTube Channel:
The Commander Tavern - a channel I just started where I'll post deck techs and gameplays. Please support by checking it out. Maybe you'll like its content and subscribe! Thanks!
Neither will work for Song of the Dryads or Imprisoned in the Moon. Another solution specific to those two: Zuran Orb (similar price to Young Pyromancer).
And a solution that can work for all of them: Greater Gargadon. But definitely a few bucks for that one, so not extreme budget.
old thread
old thread
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R Zada Arcane Storm
RBU Marchesa
GWU Estrid
GWR Samut?
URB Kess
(R/W)(U/B) Akiri & Silas
BWR Alesha
R Neheb Dragons
G Nylea Wurms
W Darien
U Tetsuko