I think that, once people see you go off with Azor's Gateway the first time, they make damn sure you won't do it again. Think of it like the Quest cycles from Zendikar and Worldwake.
Also, to answer your thoughts on Razaketh and Axis of Mortality - I don't own a Raz, he's on my acquire list. As for Axis... well, I cracked a foil out of a pack, you see...
Yeah, loose plan weaving was loose. Both Raz and the Protection work super well in the shell, you won't be disappointed when you come across them.
I got a bit too fidgety with regards to Azor's Gateway, it's largely served me well flipped or unflipped apart from that one game I threw on my own volition. If it eats removal - so be it. That's one less removal for a proper haymaker down the line, and just need to be mindful to not get too greedy with the loots to avoid feelbad. Also, given the Rings of Brighthearth itch, I gave that a test run... and it wasn't the best. It was yet another utility three drop to ram into the early game sequencing, and its non-infinite payoff was super conditional. It was Mirage Mirror tier dead space, so I think I'm going to pass. Deserted Temple, the card that inspired this bunch of musings, has performed admirably though.
Daxos seems like a lot of fun (and I love orzhov) but I mainly play 1v1, and I'm afraid he'd just get steamrolled there. I'm mostly playing against aggro decks.
Early draw/tutoring for Bitterblossom or Ghostly Prison would make ya feel safer, I suppose, but draw the wrong cards and you might just be a sitting duck for a while.
Depends on how good your 1v1 meta is. I've pitched my Daxos against a number of my meta's decks 1v1 in playtest rounds, as finding one guy to butt heads with is easy, and I don't just automatically fall over and die. Performance could improve if you were to rebalance for duels, as running spot removal becomes even more enticing than usual. Proceed at your own discretion.
In a standard "since I'm making a post in here" manner, Raz no longer has a 100% win rate. Set him down on an underdeveloped board with two spirits, some joker popped removal. Fine. Tutor Emeria Shepherd + Plains to get the gravy train going again soon, but then some other joker rips a Sepulchral Primordial before it's even my turn again. Well crap. This mishap aside, the list is in a pretty okay place. I can feel it tapping into some potential to do things without Daxos around, and that would be a nice direction to continue down, as mentioned previously. Attrition 2.0 is a good manifestation of this - it brings its own game plan if things are going south in a manner its predecessor could not, and still offers precise answering potential if everything is just peachy. Cabal Coffers kind of fits into this as well, as its burst of mana is not hurt by wipes in any manner. Any ideas how to capitalise on this sort of stuff? Y'all have always been less Daxos-dependent than me.
Thanks to Rumpy and this Daxos thread I've taken some inspiration and been playing around with my own Daxos brew.
It isn't super competitive, but within my meta it seems to make for some fun play.
I wanted to share what I've been up to, some fun things the deck does, and some directions I've been thinking about going and get some feedback from the best Daxos thread I've found.
The following deck pulls a lot from what Rumpy has been up to and is adapted to use the cards I have available.
A few fun things I've done with this:
After a board wipe I've played Emeira Shepherd then played a plains to bring back a Sun Titan which then pulls a Evolving Wilds which brings a card to hand and delivers a plains to the field in order to return Solemn Simulacrum which in turn delivers another plains to he field and in turn pulls yet another card back from the dead. Very fun.
It is great fun to use Mirrorpool to clone a Sun Titan and then bring the Mirrorpool back from the graveyard with the new token.
I know Starfield of Nyx and Opalescence don't play nice with Daxos tokens, but I find them to be great fun along with Parallax Wave. Opalescence along with Parallax Wave is a game ending combo that permanently exiles all opponent creatures and isn't fun to play against so I don't strive to unleash it, but Starfield of Nyx with Parallax Wave is a fun combo that allows one to flicker or protect their own creatures and enchantments as much as desired. Post board-wipe, these enchantments are creatures cards give a board presence that one otherwise wouldn't have and have saved me a couple of times.
One interesting side effect of the "enchantments are creatures cards" is that certain creatures are improved. Like Archetype of Finality becomes a 6/6 deathtouch for 6 cost, and Eidolon of Countless Battles becomes at least a 5/5 for cost 3 and Ghostblade Eidolon becomes a 3/3 doublestrike for 3 cost.
A direction I've started looking at is having more anthem style effects, such as Spear of Heliod and Marshal's Anthem such that Daxos tokens would live even if one of the enchantments are creatures cards is in play and the enchantments are creatures cards become even more dangerous in terms of creature presence.
One thing that worries me about moving further in that direction is that this deck is slow and taking out control/removal cards in favor of anthems and boosters may make the deck even less competitive.
I'd appreciate thoughts and feedback from people who have played a lot of Daxos. Thanks in advance!
Hello and welcome always great to see another Daxos slinger. My meta isn't competitive either, and Daxos is easily my weakest deck, but he's just such a fun bugger to mess around with!
There's nothing wrong with an anthem approach to the build, but if you're thinking of doing that it'd probably pay off to look into ways to clog up the board beyond belief to make use of those effects. Ajani's Chosen and Sigil of the Empty Throne both generate extra dudes off you doing your thing, Anointed Procession is a curious omission that you can quite easily fix, Elspeth, Sun's Champion could slot in for one of the wipes. Also, the best anthem would be Cathars' Crusade, the only thing stopping me from playing it is the fear of an absolute logistics meltdown. Everything synergises super well with other pieces though. Imagine dropping Sunspeth with Procession out, +1, whoops that's 6 7/7s on defence and all the swingers got a measly +6/+6 boost regardless of what else happened in the turn. Seems dece, and following this sort of approach would make you feel safer about the Opalescence variants that you're so fond of. I'm not gonna follow you down this path though, I'm not super keen on having Wrath of God wipe away any trace of me ever having had a board, which not even your Parallax Wave shenanigans can do too much about
I'm gonna sound like a broken record here, but the core of removal should be Swords, Path, Unmaking and Utter End. Function over cutesy synergies when it comes to answers. In terms of questionable includes you didn't bring up, what's Righteous Confluence doing in the deck? Liliana's Shade?
I have a Cathar's Crusade and that will certainly work great...so great I think I'll slot it in today.
Righteous Confluence is here because I don't have an Anguished Unmaking or an Utter End but I do need ways to destroy enchantments. I hate to use a slot on a card that only gets rid of enchantments and of the cards I have, this one seemed nice for the added options. I'll swap it out when I get my next exile any permanent card.
Liliana's Shade comes and goes from my white/black deck lists. She shows up sometimes for 2 reasons: 1. I like to be secure in my land drops and she can help 2. Sometimes this deck can reach absurd amounts of mana (Crypt Ghast, Serra's Sanctum, Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth) yet outside of Daxos tokens, there are few mana dumps. The Shade can become quite large in those cases. Having a plan B type mana dump is also why I have a Debt to the Deathless. I think the shade will give way to Cathar's Crusade today even though the anthem strategy won't work nearly as well until I acquire a few other cards.
You're at a stage where cuts should still be pretty easy. You have random debris like the Shade/Confluence, you're gonna be fine Also, isn't Recurring Nightmare banned? If so, that's an easy cut It's interesting to watch other people's models of cardboard acquisition sometimes, you run Serra's Sanctum yet can't just instantly slide in an Anguished Unmaking.
I really like the Slaughter the Strong, as it leaves Daxos untouched and Wraths the board of most scary threats for only 3. Easy to have some mana left over to make Daxosmen or plop down another Enchantment.
Yeah, Slaughter the Strong is a hell of a cleanup option, possibly even the strongest of the whole Sunspeth/Dusk division. I've been largely ignoring updating my wrath selection in the interest of reducing removal focus, I should probably give this particular one a think though.
Have you ever tested remove enchantments? Seems like a potentially strong way to protect against a sweeper and retrigger daxos a ton of times.
Also...holy freaking crap, that might just be the most complicated card in the entire game. It took me several minutes to understand wtf it does. What a mess.
Hm, seems quite narrow, yet ridiculously strong in those very constrained time frames. As you point out, it's the perfect response to a wipe eating your enchantments, but other uses are quite situational. Teferi's Protection is more catch-all.
Against some pretty good competition (in my eyes) the deck won 2 out of 5. I saw little of the newly added cards, so I can't say much for my swarming efforts yet.
I did suffer under the weight of some oppressive enchantments my opponent had out. All 5 games were against relatively enchantment heavy decks and I felt lacking in ability to deal with those enchantments in each game. So priority for the best removal possible has gone up.
One game I got milled a ton, though I forget the commander that did it. It did make me wonder if something like Aegis of the Gods is worth a slot.
I'll be paying closer attention to see how many cards have the word "target" on them the next few times I play. What's the opinion here on cards that give you hexproof? Enough value?
My winning efforts were topped off with True Conviction (which kept me alive an extra several turns) along with a Debt to the Deathless for the win and then a use of Parallax Wave to clear the opponents creatures so I could walk through for a win.
One game I got milled a ton, though I forget the commander that did it. It did make me wonder if something like Aegis of the Gods is worth a slot. I'll be paying closer attention to see how many cards have the word "target" on them the next few times I play. What's the opinion here on cards that give you hexproof? Enough value?
My advice is that if you're being targeted as a player pretty often in effects (such as if the mill deck is played often and is a challenging opponent) then some personal hexproof could be useful, though it will always be a trade-off with what you're removing for the slot. Aegis of the Gods is really squishy and I would avoid it. In enchantments Leyline of Sanctity or Imperial Mask would stick much better, though I don't think I'd start with it on the table. However, don't get caught up on only looking at enchantments for your solutions just because this is an enchantment deck. There are plenty of artifacts that complement enchantress decks very well — in this case Orbs of Warding not only grants you hexproof but mitigates some combat (versus Witchbane Orb which really just grants hexproof).
A little mill isn't terribly bad with Daxos if you're able to get Replenish into hand with a tutor or something. If it resolves, it can mean the game. So if the mill deck is a frequent challenge you could also think of ways to turn it to your advantage rather than preventing it. If mill is only faced once in a while, I wouldn't do anything special regarding it. Two out of five games is a good, even win rate.
I have pushed forward with my Daxos swarm plans. During the last week I have been crushed several times by Aggro Elves but I've also had some competitive games and a couple of good wins.
I'd like to give praise and support to my friend Parallax Wave once again. It won me 2 games this week by removing the opponents key defenders.
As 4. resolves, return Parallax Wave to your hand with Cloudstone Curio
Then 1, 2, and 3 resolve and permanently exile the targeted creatures, and you have Parallax Wave back in hand ready to do it again.
Or how about with Cloudstone Curio on the board one can play Parallax Wave and exile 5 of your own creatures with Constellation effects, then create a Daxos token and return Parallax Wave to hand. The result is all your creatures with Constellation effects return and fire 5 times each.
I think I'll find room for Felidar Guardian as his interaction with Parallax Wave is such that one can repeat any ETB effects on any combination of up to 5 creatures one wants as many times as one wants. Sun Titan on the field? Then bring back everything CMC 3 or less as soon as both Felidar Guardian and Parallax Wave resolve. Solemn Simulacrum on the field? Go get all your basic lands. Ajani's Chosen is on the field? Then you can generate as many 2/2 cats as you like. Cathar's Crusade on the field? All your creatures can get huge fast.
If these types of effects happen when Skybind is also out, then you've also cleared your opponents board of all non-enchantment permanents.
I look forward to pulling off one of these effects in a game, but I'm still always glad to see Parallax Wave in my hand regardless. It can take away up to 5 enemies or save up to 5 of your own creatures from destruction all while giving you another Daxos counter. Seems like good value to me.
If anyone here has thoughts of other combos that might come up with Parallax Wave and the types of creatures and enchantments in a Daxos deck, by all means let me know.
Damn man, those are some mighty fine interactions you got going there. If you choose to follow this path you could consider Oblivion Ring (it's not that bad by itself, and if you get Opalescence out you get another busted piece for your Felidar loop) and maybe Gonti, Lord of Luxury. I'm not sure I can find room for that sort of package, as all this sounds like it would perform kind of eh without all the pieces coming together (especially the support stuff like Felidar Guardian), and I've sworn to never run pure combo pieces after my original Purphoros, God of the Forge build. Drawing dead cards is not the best.
Hi Rumpy and all! Relative newcomer to the format, just wanted to say I have read this thread extensively and it has been an awesome guide along my edh journey. Such an enjoyable read, it has been a huge help in building my first decent commander deck. Thank you so much for putting all the effort you have into this post. Because of the wealth of information and critical analysis found herein I won my first match against my new playgroup, all of whom have very powerful, expensive, and competitive decks, while mine is veeeery budget haha. Couldn't have done it without all the contributions. Keep it up! Cheers,
A couple weeks and a dozen games later, I have found that my efforts to swarm with token effects and anthems hasn't worked quite as well as I would have liked. Perhaps a couple of different pieces might have made a difference or perhaps I didn't play it well enough but my perception was that my swarm was slow compared to more aggro decks but I lacked enough pillow fort and responses in order to have the time to build my swarm. I had thought that might be the case at the start, and my play suggest maybe that is the case. Not that there isn't plenty of fun to be had playing Daxos this way.
I had fun and played competitive games, but now I'm moving a different way.
Those cards can target each other and if you have a constellation effect on the board it will trigger as much as you like. Even without the combo partner cards, each of those cards can remove an opponent's permanent until one or more combo partners show up and the party starts.
Even Underworld Coinsmith and Grim Guardian have earned trial spots in the deck. They have felt under powered in the past, but the potential to loop and re-trigger their effects is interesting.
Then I've also added Spirit Link, Pariah, Flickerform, Animate Dead, and Shade's Form. In my last 2 games Pariah did a ton of work as I attached it to my opponent's indestructible creatures and creatures that reduce combat damage to 0. I once got Spirit Link attached to a Crypt Rats prior to it being used to damage all creatures and players and that was fun. I look forward to getting it on whatever fatty my opponents put out.
The possibility of looping Sun Titan with Shade's Form looks like fun, or just putting it on my opponents creature prior to a board wipe to steal it. The huge amounts of mana one can generate late game make me think I may just win a game with Shade's Form someday.
Flickerform has felt too expensive for what it does in the past, but perhaps it's possible defense combined with the multiple constellation effects per turn it could produce will prove worth it. I can see putting it on Daxos or on Felidar Guardian or one of his exile creature friends in order to blink 2 things each time Flickerform is fired. With Opalescence or Starfield of Nyx on the board I could see enchanting Delaying Shield with Flickerform in order to remove counters every time they happen.
I've also added Story Circle and replaced a board wipe with Pestilence. Getting both of those out at the same time should be trouble for my opponents. Also getting Delaying Shield and/or Phyrexian Unlife out at the same time should be good. If Pestilence is ever a creature, I'll try to pull off the Spirit Link trick and get it some form of life link before I fire it off.
Doomwake Giant and Cloudstone Curio did win a game for me in spectacular fashion last week. I highly endorse their inclusion in a Daxos deck.
I also pulled off a 20+ enchantment drop with Replenish against a mill deck. I had no interesting constellation effects though and ended up losing on the turn following my play. It was still enjoyable to go from an empty board to 20+ permanents in 1 play though.
Hi Rumpy and all! Relative newcomer to the format, just wanted to say I have read this thread extensively and it has been an awesome guide along my edh journey. Such an enjoyable read, it has been a huge help in building my first decent commander deck. Thank you so much for putting all the effort you have into this post. Because of the wealth of information and critical analysis found herein I won my first match against my new playgroup, all of whom have very powerful, expensive, and competitive decks, while mine is veeeery budget haha. Couldn't have done it without all the contributions. Keep it up! Cheers,
Hello and welcome. Thanks for the kind words - it's great to have a thread with people posting in it, and it's also a fantastic feeling to know the discussions therein interspersed with my ramblings made a difference
A couple weeks and a dozen games later, I have found that my efforts to swarm with token effects and anthems hasn't worked quite as well as I would have liked. Perhaps a couple of different pieces might have made a difference or perhaps I didn't play it well enough but my perception was that my swarm was slow compared to more aggro decks but I lacked enough pillow fort and responses in order to have the time to build my swarm. I had thought that might be the case at the start, and my play suggest maybe that is the case. Not that there isn't plenty of fun to be had playing Daxos this way.
In fairness, I've never tried to take Daxos in that direction. My reaction upon messing with the precon was "what if Rule of Law" rather than "what if Cathars' Crusade", and all of the go-wide/go-anthem effects were stripped from the list in the prehistoric age of messing around with available stock of LGSes, back when Sphere of Safety was somehow impossible to locate. Still, whenever someone is interested in Daxos but doesn't like the somewhat attrition'y style of my build, this is the first less controlling alternative to spring to mind. I feel like there's a decent deck to be made with that assumption, just that none of us have stumbled upon it yet.
Dammit man, you and your zany interactions a lot of the cards you bring up have me whinging with "but this is absolutely horrid on its own", but maybe a critical mass of assorted jank means you always piece together something.
Dammit man, you and your zany interactions a lot of the cards you bring up have me whinging with "but this is absolutely horrid on its own", but maybe a critical mass of assorted jank means you always piece together something.
Oh, I think some of these cards and combos are janky, but I kinda want to see some of these things happen. So, even at the expense of winning I'm going to give it a go.
Take Fiend Hunter for instance. Not so great on his own. But add in Cloudstone Curio, Skybind, or Flickerform and he can exile opponents creatures permanently by removing him from the field while his exile ETB is on the stack. With Flickerform on him he can permanently exile a creature each end step (for 4 mana). Leonin Relic-Warder does the same thing for artifacts and enchantments.
I'm not seeing what you're doing here. Do you just assume generating a swole mana base and blowing up the world?
I've ordered a few new board wipes to try, but Pestilence is the flavor of the week. I like that it's an enchantment...though I wish it cost 3 mana. I started running it last week when I was playing against elves, and the ability to repeatedly wipe away the elves was good...for that opponent anyway. It is a little like Profane Procession in that the way an opponent plays is a little different when they can see the destruction on the board waiting to eat their creatures. My ability to produce mana seems good, recursion seems good, and my ability to deal with damage via cards like Phyrexian Unlife, Story Circle, Pariah, and Delaying Shield seems better than my meta...so yeah, I'll blow up the board with Pestilence if I can. I have a vision of turning it into a creature, giving it life link as well as Spirit Link and then blowing up maybe 20 creatures and 4 players for 10 damage each...netting me 480 life minus the 10 I'd take personally. I know it's not efficient or even likely...but it would amuse me greatly. So, I'll dream of that type of combo while I maybe blow up some elves or relentless rats (which I lost to last week).
I also ordered a copy of Karma, so I might try to win a game with it and Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth when I it arrives. Another goofy combo it would amuse me to see happen.
I'm a bit leery towards Pestilence effects myself, as while you can use them late game to pave the way for your huge vanilla beefslabs to take people out you're going to be quite hindered by having a bear commander in the early/mid stages instead. Maybe it'll work better for you given your wacky build.
I've still got a bit of a love/hate thing going with Azor's Gateway. I haven't managed to flip it in a while, but I guess just the sheer card filtering/quality and the potential for the game-winning flip being there make this worth it. You go a bit deeper, you pick what you need, you smooth out your game plan. If it dies, that's one less thing killing your power lifters later on. I feel like I'm looping on myself here, but that's one card that nobody ever seemed to take to here apart from me, so am I just being crazy by running it?
Hey Rumpy I have been keeping up with thread for a few months now. When I got back into magic after 15 year hiatus Daxos was first precon I purchased and my first experience with Commander. I ended up giving up on daxos and would end up focusing more on karlov (eventually lead to Ayli build), but I would frequently get inkling to sleeve something back up. I did at one point try to make a tier 1 style Zur deck and ended up quitting for a little bit as it seemed to inherently broken lol. Was great to come across your primer (via Tev's thread) and find both a discussion around Daxos and for a competitive style build at that. Also wanted to thank you for indirectly getting me to invest in a Chains of Mephistopheles (Rare + 2CC + usable + unique ability + legends + reserved list = yes please) which it just as I predicted would spiked almost 2x. Hope you managed to get a copy before that as well.
First off noting on most recent exchange I don't see myself using Azor's Gateway, not because its bad but I don't like idea of self exiling cards outside Eldritch Evolution in commander. Plus its not an enchantment so don't feel so bad snubbing it, I'm sure its good though. Btw I'd look to use Gift of Immortality before Shade's Form, could be a good way to keep Daxos alive or also loop with Sun titan.
Agree on not using pestilence, high CC, we're not mono B and we don't play a lot of creatures...it would only really be good to kind of keep an opponent with 1/1 tokens at bay.
Speaking of 2BB enchantments that kill creatures...saw no one talked about the new Dominaria cards yet and main card I'm interested in is Phyrexian Scriptures. This can be played on curve after a daxos...can perform a 1 turn delayed wrath that protects him and aside from a few decks like Breya is probably going to wipe out all opponents creatures. Even if gets removed still get an experience counter, and could even be used politically to protect and opponents creature. Lastly it also has a one sided graveyard exile effect built in as well which can hose any recurse strategies also working well with the discard theme deck has. Besides that card Seal Away is interesting mainly as its flash and 2CC, maybe replacing an instant removal...not sure how much of a limitation the tap requirement is. Last one The Eldest Reborn, high CC but has immediate effect and its 2nd clause is a discard effect and the 3rd effect is a one time Debtors' Knell. Definately strong in a voltron meta. Kind of wish sagas 2nd clause was on "next" draw step and not "your next". Also wonder if was intentional or not to have sagas nonbo with Necropotence really bad lol. That is a big reason to not run these admittedly. Why didn't they have it during upkeep...
I've never run Azor's Gateway. I have been wary of permanently exiling my own cards. I know it's better to toss a card you don't need now for a chance to answer something actually happening on the board...but I haven't brought myself to try it. I'm going to take a closer look at giving it a go, but I struggle to figure out what to swap it with. I just swapped in Black Market for Crypt Ghast as an extra mana source. I'm not sure I'll like the market better, but that's the card I'm most likely to swap gateway with. Black Market is going to serve a similar purpose to the Ghast and yet has the potential for some crazier things. Not that tapping a plains for a white and 2 black mana isn't crazy, but suddenly having access to 20 more mana after a board wipe seems fun. If I see the market in a couple games and it does nothing, or the next time I think about shifting themes I'll consider running gateway. I may try it in my life gain deck first as it feels like it might have better synergy.
The criticisms of Pestilence are legitimate. Pestilence is certainly better for someone in mono-black and/or with an indestructible commander. I do think it is still good card for the right build and perhaps shines more when faced with wide boards such as elves or tokens. I'm not sure I have the right build, but I have shifted toward preventing damage and recursion. Flickering Ward would be my preferred method to shield Daxos from Pestilence, but I counted 13 other cards that could recur or protect Daxos among those I'm currently running. I have the ability to go big with mana sometimes and in some of those cases Pestilence can win the game even while killing Daxos - I spotted 5 cards that I'm running that save me from the damage while every other player suffers. Plus, I dream of shenanigans that I just can't get from a regular, more efficient, board wipe.
I've got a Gift of Immortality and I've been known to run it. Shade's form is currently getting a tryout because: A) it allows one to steal an opponents creature and B) it has that ability to pump the enchanted creature. I've tried to spot cards that can be both offensive and defensive. Shade's Form may be the inferior defensive option, but it presents other uses that have earned it a tryout. Other cards that are playing both offense and defense for me include Pariah, Darksteel Mutation, Animate Dead, and Glistening Oil. I can play those on my own creatures or my opponent's creatures in different situations. I kinda like that flexibility. I may find a way to fit Gift of Immortality again, but for now it's riding the bench.
Last night was play testing the new cards for me. Sadly, not many of the new cards made an appearance. The exception was Animate Dead. Once it showed up, it was exciting to see the possibilities. In a 2 headed giant game, one of the opponents had played a forerunner of the coalition in a pirate tribal deck. When I drew Animate Dead my partner and I considered grabbing it from the opponent's graveyard and having them take 2 damage for each new pirate played. In the end, I held it and used it 2 or 3 turns later to bring back Doomwake Giant to clear the board and win. For me, Animate Dead is looking good. I was very happy to have it in hand. Someday, maybe I'll loop Animate Dead with Leonin Relic-Warder while Black Market is on the board and I'll give myself a million mana per turn. Until then, I look forward to stealing other people's creatures and having some cheap yet flexible recursion.
I think the best argument for the new Phyrexian Scriptures is the abuse you can do with Cloudstone Curio. Play Scriptures, compleat Daxos, then after next turn's board wipe return it to your hand with a spirit. You can then replay it and wipe again next turn.
I wonder whether it's worth the slot or it's too cute.
Thanks for the feedback, fellows. It's been a bit quiet in here lately, apart from the delightful jankatron musings. RecklessReanimator, do you think I wouldn't run Chains if I had one? No, I don't have one. I sure as hell wish I did though, that would be nice the Gateway musings are just me getting fidgety and forcibly considering tweaking lists for no good reason, it isn't really underperforming or anything. People run Monastery Siege, and this is that with a fun little mini-game attached if you feel like playing. True, it costs one mana per pop, but eh. I haven't found the exile to come back and bite me quite yet, there are usually some silver bullets that are not super useful given the matchups you're up against at the moment. I'd agree that Phyrexian Scriptures is the most useable of the sagas, but that's not saying a lot - a telegraphed wipe is the definition of not the best. It can get popped, if not then you're quite likely to eat all the aggro, and the fact Daxos is now a rock is not exactly the world's greatest perk either. Of course, there's no substitute for good old testing, so if it performs well for you by all means report back with it!
Sorry to hear you didn't get chains Rumpy, I read your primer several times which is why it was only not included due to cost/not having. Maybe when Hasbro becomes desperate can get one in "Reserved Masters" . It is a weird card though use wise as it feels more like an across the table Leovold a bit. On positive side it doesn't exile so combos with Replenish or Emeria Shepherd well.
Shantu you make a good point about curio synergy I almost forgot about that. I was actually thinking maybe scriptures could be interesting in a deck (possibly not daxos) using Starfield of Nyx for a Child of Alara like recurring wipe effect. Feels like if you wanted to abuse curio card like The Eldest Reborn is better in so much as it has immediate symmetric grave pact effect and could also choose to return after I or II.
Rumpy I do have a few cards don't see mentioned in your primer wondering if have been tested and in some cases if just too expensive as to why not considered, curious your thought (maybe add some to primer also):
Waste Not : not gonna lie, I've had a pretty foil one for a while and always wanted excuse to play it. Realize unlike say Nath of the Gilt-Leaf discard isn't built into our commander, but I count 7-8 permanent/repeatable discard spells in deck. Also can be triggered off effects like Survival of the Fittest, Faithless Looting, etc. I can see it not being good enough often enough but its only 2CC and could easily cantrip itself at very least.
Bloodchief Ascension : another card want excuse to play . Only 1CC, yes it does attract hate but seems more synergistic with strategy and less scary than Luminarch Ascension. With this deck problem would be not having any real drain effects so hoping opponents hit each other or self harm to get counters. Also for those wanting an infinite combo throw in with a Mindcrank.
Scroll Rack : I think I'm going to try this over Azor's Gateway. Three main things I like about this: 1) it doesn't "draw" cards so it doesn't nonbo with several of our draw hosing effects, 2) it combos with land tax to draw 3 a turn, 3) doesn't exile cards permanently. Also it can be used to hide cards, like a wrath, so don't accidentally discard. Biggest argument against is if hand tends to be too small too often but I think the possible upside could outweigh here. Also we're not using top so this seems like the higher ceiling alternative.
Moat : First of the "omg so pricey...", back when crackdown was in this seems like would have been better slot for those that had one. Costs one more but likely nullifies 90% of creatures. Heh I just remembered why this probably isn't included...tokens can't attack. Guess could either just beat down with Razzaketh or bounce it back with Curio
Nether Void : This and next one have seen in stack builds which this Daxos deck feels bit in that direction. I wouldn't see this as an early play, but more to lock the game down. Daxos if out can just make tokens without paying the tax. I suppose this could be weak as we aren't really going after opponent's mana base (only maybe indirectly through mass discard).
The Abyss : ironically I just realized this combo's with Phyrexian Scriptures too lol. This is sort of a Magus of the Abyss in the card type we want. Not as strong as combat taxing cards, but certainly good vs voltron and non-token strategies.
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Also, to answer your thoughts on Razaketh and Axis of Mortality - I don't own a Raz, he's on my acquire list. As for Axis... well, I cracked a foil out of a pack, you see...
I got a bit too fidgety with regards to Azor's Gateway, it's largely served me well flipped or unflipped apart from that one game I threw on my own volition. If it eats removal - so be it. That's one less removal for a proper haymaker down the line, and just need to be mindful to not get too greedy with the loots to avoid feelbad. Also, given the Rings of Brighthearth itch, I gave that a test run... and it wasn't the best. It was yet another utility three drop to ram into the early game sequencing, and its non-infinite payoff was super conditional. It was Mirage Mirror tier dead space, so I think I'm going to pass. Deserted Temple, the card that inspired this bunch of musings, has performed admirably though.
Depends on how good your 1v1 meta is. I've pitched my Daxos against a number of my meta's decks 1v1 in playtest rounds, as finding one guy to butt heads with is easy, and I don't just automatically fall over and die. Performance could improve if you were to rebalance for duels, as running spot removal becomes even more enticing than usual. Proceed at your own discretion.
In a standard "since I'm making a post in here" manner, Raz no longer has a 100% win rate. Set him down on an underdeveloped board with two spirits, some joker popped removal. Fine. Tutor Emeria Shepherd + Plains to get the gravy train going again soon, but then some other joker rips a Sepulchral Primordial before it's even my turn again. Well crap. This mishap aside, the list is in a pretty okay place. I can feel it tapping into some potential to do things without Daxos around, and that would be a nice direction to continue down, as mentioned previously. Attrition 2.0 is a good manifestation of this - it brings its own game plan if things are going south in a manner its predecessor could not, and still offers precise answering potential if everything is just peachy. Cabal Coffers kind of fits into this as well, as its burst of mana is not hurt by wipes in any manner. Any ideas how to capitalise on this sort of stuff? Y'all have always been less Daxos-dependent than me.
It isn't super competitive, but within my meta it seems to make for some fun play.
I wanted to share what I've been up to, some fun things the deck does, and some directions I've been thinking about going and get some feedback from the best Daxos thread I've found.
The following deck pulls a lot from what Rumpy has been up to and is adapted to use the cards I have available.
1x Daxos the Returned
Enchantment (27)
1x Act of Authority
1x Aura of Silence
1x Authority of the Consuls
1x Blind Obedience
1x Crackdown
1x Darksteel Mutation
1x Flickering Ward
1x Grasp of Fate
1x Necropotence
1x Nevermore
1x Phyrexian Arena
1x Phyrexian Reclamation
1x Righteous Aura
1x Skybind
1x Sphere of Safety
1x True Conviction
1x Profane Procession
1x Prison Term
1x Consulate Crackdown
1x Cast Out
1x Authority of the Consuls
1x Land Tax
1x Reconnaissance
1x Recurring Nightmare
1x Gossamer Chains
1x Starfield of Nyx
1x Opalescence
1x Parallax Wave
1x Eerie Interlude
1x Swords to Plowshares
Land (38)
10x Plains
9x Swamp
1x Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx
1x Serra's Sanctum
1x Orzhov Basilica
1x Command Tower
1x Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1x Kor Haven
1x Field of Ruin
1x Westvale Abbey
1x Scoured Barrens
1x Vault of the Archangel
1x Arcane Lighthouse
1x Evolving Wilds
1x Terramorphic Expanse
1x Cascading Cataracts
1x Reliqary Tower
1x High Market
1x Emiria, the Sky Ruin
1x Forsaken Sanctuary
1x Mirrorpool
Artifact (2)
1x Cloudstone Curio
1x Sword of the Animist
Creature (23)
1x Sun Titan
1x Thoughtrender Lamia
1x Agent of Erebos
1x Solemn Simulacrum
1x Doomwake Giant
1x Mesa Enchantress
1x Emeria Shepherd
1x Razaketh, the Foulblooded
1x Fountain Watch
1x Auramancer
1x Aven Mindcensor
1x Crypt Ghast
1x Atheros, God of Passage
1x Erebos, God of the Dead
1x Heliod, God of the Sun
1x Weathered Wayfarer
1x Liliana's Shade
1x Rune-Scarred Demon
1x Nighthowler
1x Ghostblade Eidolon
1x Archetype of FInality
1x Eidolon of Countless Battles
1x Celestial Archon
1x Debt to the Deathless
1x Extinguish All Hope
1x Righteous Confluence
1x Merciless Eviction
1x Replenish
1x Dusk/Dawn
1x Slaughter the Strong
A few fun things I've done with this:
After a board wipe I've played Emeira Shepherd then played a plains to bring back a Sun Titan which then pulls a Evolving Wilds which brings a card to hand and delivers a plains to the field in order to return Solemn Simulacrum which in turn delivers another plains to he field and in turn pulls yet another card back from the dead. Very fun.
It is great fun to use Mirrorpool to clone a Sun Titan and then bring the Mirrorpool back from the graveyard with the new token.
I know Starfield of Nyx and Opalescence don't play nice with Daxos tokens, but I find them to be great fun along with Parallax Wave.
Opalescence along with Parallax Wave is a game ending combo that permanently exiles all opponent creatures and isn't fun to play against so I don't strive to unleash it, but Starfield of Nyx with Parallax Wave is a fun combo that allows one to flicker or protect their own creatures and enchantments as much as desired. Post board-wipe, these enchantments are creatures cards give a board presence that one otherwise wouldn't have and have saved me a couple of times.
One interesting side effect of the "enchantments are creatures cards" is that certain creatures are improved. Like Archetype of Finality becomes a 6/6 deathtouch for 6 cost, and Eidolon of Countless Battles becomes at least a 5/5 for cost 3 and Ghostblade Eidolon becomes a 3/3 doublestrike for 3 cost.
A direction I've started looking at is having more anthem style effects, such as Spear of Heliod and Marshal's Anthem such that Daxos tokens would live even if one of the enchantments are creatures cards is in play and the enchantments are creatures cards become even more dangerous in terms of creature presence.
One thing that worries me about moving further in that direction is that this deck is slow and taking out control/removal cards in favor of anthems and boosters may make the deck even less competitive.
I'd appreciate thoughts and feedback from people who have played a lot of Daxos. Thanks in advance!
There's nothing wrong with an anthem approach to the build, but if you're thinking of doing that it'd probably pay off to look into ways to clog up the board beyond belief to make use of those effects. Ajani's Chosen and Sigil of the Empty Throne both generate extra dudes off you doing your thing, Anointed Procession is a curious omission that you can quite easily fix, Elspeth, Sun's Champion could slot in for one of the wipes. Also, the best anthem would be Cathars' Crusade, the only thing stopping me from playing it is the fear of an absolute logistics meltdown. Everything synergises super well with other pieces though. Imagine dropping Sunspeth with Procession out, +1, whoops that's 6 7/7s on defence and all the swingers got a measly +6/+6 boost regardless of what else happened in the turn. Seems dece, and following this sort of approach would make you feel safer about the Opalescence variants that you're so fond of. I'm not gonna follow you down this path though, I'm not super keen on having Wrath of God wipe away any trace of me ever having had a board, which not even your Parallax Wave shenanigans can do too much about
I'm gonna sound like a broken record here, but the core of removal should be Swords, Path, Unmaking and Utter End. Function over cutesy synergies when it comes to answers. In terms of questionable includes you didn't bring up, what's Righteous Confluence doing in the deck? Liliana's Shade?
I have a Cathar's Crusade and that will certainly work great...so great I think I'll slot it in today.
Righteous Confluence is here because I don't have an Anguished Unmaking or an Utter End but I do need ways to destroy enchantments. I hate to use a slot on a card that only gets rid of enchantments and of the cards I have, this one seemed nice for the added options. I'll swap it out when I get my next exile any permanent card.
Liliana's Shade comes and goes from my white/black deck lists. She shows up sometimes for 2 reasons: 1. I like to be secure in my land drops and she can help 2. Sometimes this deck can reach absurd amounts of mana (Crypt Ghast, Serra's Sanctum, Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth) yet outside of Daxos tokens, there are few mana dumps. The Shade can become quite large in those cases. Having a plan B type mana dump is also why I have a Debt to the Deathless. I think the shade will give way to Cathar's Crusade today even though the anthem strategy won't work nearly as well until I acquire a few other cards.
So far I can swap in Ajani's Chosen,Sigil of the Empty Throne, and Cathar's Crusade.
The cuts always get harder for me after the first few but I'll be able to play a few games later and see how things go.
Mid-Tier: Marchesa Aggro Rose Asmadi Get Dire Tymna Ikra Woke Women Tiana Aura Angel Ruric Thar SMASH Smasher Kraum Mana Positivity Zur Slides
Filthy Casual: WUBRG Jodah WUBRG WUBRG Fatties WUBRG Gahiji Vigilant Vengeance Ezuri Mysterious Morphs
Also...holy freaking crap, that might just be the most complicated card in the entire game. It took me several minutes to understand wtf it does. What a mess.
EDH Primers
Phelddagrif - Zirilan
EDH
Thrasios+Bruse - Pang - Sasaya - Wydwen - Feather - Rona - Toshiro - Sylvia+Khorvath - Geth - QMarchesa - Firesong - Athreos - Arixmethes - Isperia - Etali - Silas+Sidar - Saskia - Virtus+Gorm - Kynaios - Naban - Aryel - Mizzix - Kazuul - Tymna+Kraum - Sidar+Tymna - Ayli - Gwendlyn - Phelddagrif 4 - Liliana - Kaervek - Phelddagrif 3 - Mairsil - Scarab - Child - Phenax - Shirei - Thada - Depala - Circu - Kytheon - GrenzoHR - Phelddagrif - Reyhan+Kraum - Toshiro - Varolz - Nin - Ojutai - Tasigur - Zedruu - Uril - Edric - Wort - Zurgo - Nahiri - Grenzo - Kozilek - Yisan - Ink-Treader - Yisan - Brago - Sidisi - Toshiro - Alexi - Sygg - Brimaz - Sek'Kuar - Marchesa - Vish Kal - Iroas - Phelddagrif - Ephara - Derevi - Glissa - Wanderer - Saffi - Melek - Xiahou Dun - Lazav - Lin Sivvi - Zirilan - Glissa
PDH - Drake - Graverobber - Izzet GM - Tallowisp - Symbiote Brawl - Feather - Ugin - Jace - Scarab - Angrath - Vraska - Kumena Oathbreaker - Wrenn&6
Against some pretty good competition (in my eyes) the deck won 2 out of 5. I saw little of the newly added cards, so I can't say much for my swarming efforts yet.
I did suffer under the weight of some oppressive enchantments my opponent had out. All 5 games were against relatively enchantment heavy decks and I felt lacking in ability to deal with those enchantments in each game. So priority for the best removal possible has gone up.
One game I got milled a ton, though I forget the commander that did it. It did make me wonder if something like Aegis of the Gods is worth a slot.
I'll be paying closer attention to see how many cards have the word "target" on them the next few times I play. What's the opinion here on cards that give you hexproof? Enough value?
My winning efforts were topped off with True Conviction (which kept me alive an extra several turns) along with a Debt to the Deathless for the win and then a use of Parallax Wave to clear the opponents creatures so I could walk through for a win.
A little mill isn't terribly bad with Daxos if you're able to get Replenish into hand with a tutor or something. If it resolves, it can mean the game. So if the mill deck is a frequent challenge you could also think of ways to turn it to your advantage rather than preventing it. If mill is only faced once in a while, I wouldn't do anything special regarding it. Two out of five games is a good, even win rate.
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R Zada Arcane Storm
RBU Marchesa
GWU Estrid
GWR Samut?
URB Kess
(R/W)(U/B) Akiri & Silas
BWR Alesha
R Neheb Dragons
G Nylea Wurms
W Darien
U Tetsuko
I'd like to give praise and support to my friend Parallax Wave once again. It won me 2 games this week by removing the opponents key defenders.
There are interesting things this card can do in a Daxos deck with Cloudstone Curio and Skybind, and even more awful things if one can find room for something like Emancipation Angel, Kor Skyfisher, Felidar Guardian, or another creature that might allow one to blink/return Paralax Wave
For instance: With Cloudstone Curioon the board one can play Parallax Wave and then add to the stack:
1. Exile creature with Parallax Wave,
2. Exile creature with Parallax Wave,
3. Exile creature with Parallax Wave,
4. Create Daxos Token
As 4. resolves, return Parallax Wave to your hand with Cloudstone Curio
Then 1, 2, and 3 resolve and permanently exile the targeted creatures, and you have Parallax Wave back in hand ready to do it again.
Or how about with Cloudstone Curio on the board one can play Parallax Wave and exile 5 of your own creatures with Constellation effects, then create a Daxos token and return Parallax Wave to hand. The result is all your creatures with Constellation effects return and fire 5 times each.
I think I'll find room for Felidar Guardian as his interaction with Parallax Wave is such that one can repeat any ETB effects on any combination of up to 5 creatures one wants as many times as one wants. Sun Titan on the field? Then bring back everything CMC 3 or less as soon as both Felidar Guardian and Parallax Wave resolve. Solemn Simulacrum on the field? Go get all your basic lands.
Ajani's Chosen is on the field? Then you can generate as many 2/2 cats as you like.
Cathar's Crusade on the field? All your creatures can get huge fast.
If these types of effects happen when Skybind is also out, then you've also cleared your opponents board of all non-enchantment permanents.
I look forward to pulling off one of these effects in a game, but I'm still always glad to see Parallax Wave in my hand regardless. It can take away up to 5 enemies or save up to 5 of your own creatures from destruction all while giving you another Daxos counter. Seems like good value to me.
If anyone here has thoughts of other combos that might come up with Parallax Wave and the types of creatures and enchantments in a Daxos deck, by all means let me know.
I had fun and played competitive games, but now I'm moving a different way.
It is time to exile my own permanents!
Oblivion Ring, Journey to Nowhere, Leonin Relic-Warder, Fiend Hunter are in, while some anthem effects are out. These cards team up nicely with Felidar Guardian in order to produce repeatable effects, and in some cases loop for as many repetitions as one likes.
Those cards can target each other and if you have a constellation effect on the board it will trigger as much as you like. Even without the combo partner cards, each of those cards can remove an opponent's permanent until one or more combo partners show up and the party starts.
Fun permanents to self exile include while one waits for a combo partner: Grasp of Fate, Act of Authority, Solemn Simulacrum, and Parallax Wave. Cards like Cast Out and Nevermore can be reset by a temporary self exile that these cards can provide.
Even Underworld Coinsmith and Grim Guardian have earned trial spots in the deck. They have felt under powered in the past, but the potential to loop and re-trigger their effects is interesting.
Then I've also added Spirit Link, Pariah, Flickerform, Animate Dead, and Shade's Form. In my last 2 games Pariah did a ton of work as I attached it to my opponent's indestructible creatures and creatures that reduce combat damage to 0. I once got Spirit Link attached to a Crypt Rats prior to it being used to damage all creatures and players and that was fun. I look forward to getting it on whatever fatty my opponents put out.
The possibility of looping Sun Titan with Shade's Form looks like fun, or just putting it on my opponents creature prior to a board wipe to steal it. The huge amounts of mana one can generate late game make me think I may just win a game with Shade's Form someday.
Flickerform has felt too expensive for what it does in the past, but perhaps it's possible defense combined with the multiple constellation effects per turn it could produce will prove worth it. I can see putting it on Daxos or on Felidar Guardian or one of his exile creature friends in order to blink 2 things each time Flickerform is fired. With Opalescence or Starfield of Nyx on the board I could see enchanting Delaying Shield with Flickerform in order to remove counters every time they happen.
I've also added Story Circle and replaced a board wipe with Pestilence. Getting both of those out at the same time should be trouble for my opponents. Also getting Delaying Shield and/or Phyrexian Unlife out at the same time should be good. If Pestilence is ever a creature, I'll try to pull off the Spirit Link trick and get it some form of life link before I fire it off.
Doomwake Giant and Cloudstone Curio did win a game for me in spectacular fashion last week. I highly endorse their inclusion in a Daxos deck.
I also pulled off a 20+ enchantment drop with Replenish against a mill deck. I had no interesting constellation effects though and ended up losing on the turn following my play. It was still enjoyable to go from an empty board to 20+ permanents in 1 play though.
Hello and welcome. Thanks for the kind words - it's great to have a thread with people posting in it, and it's also a fantastic feeling to know the discussions therein interspersed with my ramblings made a difference
In fairness, I've never tried to take Daxos in that direction. My reaction upon messing with the precon was "what if Rule of Law" rather than "what if Cathars' Crusade", and all of the go-wide/go-anthem effects were stripped from the list in the prehistoric age of messing around with available stock of LGSes, back when Sphere of Safety was somehow impossible to locate. Still, whenever someone is interested in Daxos but doesn't like the somewhat attrition'y style of my build, this is the first less controlling alternative to spring to mind. I feel like there's a decent deck to be made with that assumption, just that none of us have stumbled upon it yet.
Dammit man, you and your zany interactions a lot of the cards you bring up have me whinging with "but this is absolutely horrid on its own", but maybe a critical mass of assorted jank means you always piece together something.
I'm not seeing what you're doing here. Do you just assume generating a swole mana base and blowing up the world?
Oh, I think some of these cards and combos are janky, but I kinda want to see some of these things happen. So, even at the expense of winning I'm going to give it a go.
Take Fiend Hunter for instance. Not so great on his own. But add in Cloudstone Curio, Skybind, or Flickerform and he can exile opponents creatures permanently by removing him from the field while his exile ETB is on the stack. With Flickerform on him he can permanently exile a creature each end step (for 4 mana). Leonin Relic-Warder does the same thing for artifacts and enchantments.
I've ordered a few new board wipes to try, but Pestilence is the flavor of the week. I like that it's an enchantment...though I wish it cost 3 mana. I started running it last week when I was playing against elves, and the ability to repeatedly wipe away the elves was good...for that opponent anyway. It is a little like Profane Procession in that the way an opponent plays is a little different when they can see the destruction on the board waiting to eat their creatures. My ability to produce mana seems good, recursion seems good, and my ability to deal with damage via cards like Phyrexian Unlife, Story Circle, Pariah, and Delaying Shield seems better than my meta...so yeah, I'll blow up the board with Pestilence if I can. I have a vision of turning it into a creature, giving it life link as well as Spirit Link and then blowing up maybe 20 creatures and 4 players for 10 damage each...netting me 480 life minus the 10 I'd take personally. I know it's not efficient or even likely...but it would amuse me greatly. So, I'll dream of that type of combo while I maybe blow up some elves or relentless rats (which I lost to last week).
I also ordered a copy of Karma, so I might try to win a game with it and Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth when I it arrives. Another goofy combo it would amuse me to see happen.
I've still got a bit of a love/hate thing going with Azor's Gateway. I haven't managed to flip it in a while, but I guess just the sheer card filtering/quality and the potential for the game-winning flip being there make this worth it. You go a bit deeper, you pick what you need, you smooth out your game plan. If it dies, that's one less thing killing your power lifters later on. I feel like I'm looping on myself here, but that's one card that nobody ever seemed to take to here apart from me, so am I just being crazy by running it?
First off noting on most recent exchange I don't see myself using Azor's Gateway, not because its bad but I don't like idea of self exiling cards outside Eldritch Evolution in commander. Plus its not an enchantment so don't feel so bad snubbing it, I'm sure its good though. Btw I'd look to use Gift of Immortality before Shade's Form, could be a good way to keep Daxos alive or also loop with Sun titan.
Agree on not using pestilence, high CC, we're not mono B and we don't play a lot of creatures...it would only really be good to kind of keep an opponent with 1/1 tokens at bay.
Speaking of 2BB enchantments that kill creatures...saw no one talked about the new Dominaria cards yet and main card I'm interested in is Phyrexian Scriptures. This can be played on curve after a daxos...can perform a 1 turn delayed wrath that protects him and aside from a few decks like Breya is probably going to wipe out all opponents creatures. Even if gets removed still get an experience counter, and could even be used politically to protect and opponents creature. Lastly it also has a one sided graveyard exile effect built in as well which can hose any recurse strategies also working well with the discard theme deck has. Besides that card Seal Away is interesting mainly as its flash and 2CC, maybe replacing an instant removal...not sure how much of a limitation the tap requirement is. Last one The Eldest Reborn, high CC but has immediate effect and its 2nd clause is a discard effect and the 3rd effect is a one time Debtors' Knell. Definately strong in a voltron meta. Kind of wish sagas 2nd clause was on "next" draw step and not "your next". Also wonder if was intentional or not to have sagas nonbo with Necropotence really bad lol. That is a big reason to not run these admittedly. Why didn't they have it during upkeep...
The criticisms of Pestilence are legitimate. Pestilence is certainly better for someone in mono-black and/or with an indestructible commander. I do think it is still good card for the right build and perhaps shines more when faced with wide boards such as elves or tokens. I'm not sure I have the right build, but I have shifted toward preventing damage and recursion. Flickering Ward would be my preferred method to shield Daxos from Pestilence, but I counted 13 other cards that could recur or protect Daxos among those I'm currently running. I have the ability to go big with mana sometimes and in some of those cases Pestilence can win the game even while killing Daxos - I spotted 5 cards that I'm running that save me from the damage while every other player suffers. Plus, I dream of shenanigans that I just can't get from a regular, more efficient, board wipe.
I've got a Gift of Immortality and I've been known to run it. Shade's form is currently getting a tryout because: A) it allows one to steal an opponents creature and B) it has that ability to pump the enchanted creature. I've tried to spot cards that can be both offensive and defensive. Shade's Form may be the inferior defensive option, but it presents other uses that have earned it a tryout. Other cards that are playing both offense and defense for me include Pariah, Darksteel Mutation, Animate Dead, and Glistening Oil. I can play those on my own creatures or my opponent's creatures in different situations. I kinda like that flexibility. I may find a way to fit Gift of Immortality again, but for now it's riding the bench.
Last night was play testing the new cards for me. Sadly, not many of the new cards made an appearance. The exception was Animate Dead. Once it showed up, it was exciting to see the possibilities. In a 2 headed giant game, one of the opponents had played a forerunner of the coalition in a pirate tribal deck. When I drew Animate Dead my partner and I considered grabbing it from the opponent's graveyard and having them take 2 damage for each new pirate played. In the end, I held it and used it 2 or 3 turns later to bring back Doomwake Giant to clear the board and win. For me, Animate Dead is looking good. I was very happy to have it in hand. Someday, maybe I'll loop Animate Dead with Leonin Relic-Warder while Black Market is on the board and I'll give myself a million mana per turn. Until then, I look forward to stealing other people's creatures and having some cheap yet flexible recursion.
I wonder whether it's worth the slot or it's too cute.
Shantu you make a good point about curio synergy I almost forgot about that. I was actually thinking maybe scriptures could be interesting in a deck (possibly not daxos) using Starfield of Nyx for a Child of Alara like recurring wipe effect. Feels like if you wanted to abuse curio card like The Eldest Reborn is better in so much as it has immediate symmetric grave pact effect and could also choose to return after I or II.
Rumpy I do have a few cards don't see mentioned in your primer wondering if have been tested and in some cases if just too expensive as to why not considered, curious your thought (maybe add some to primer also):