MTG Salvation

At the time that I write this (Feb 23, 2016), these are the results from the last 3 large (35+ competitor) commander tournaments:
New Orleans: 1st place: Yisan
Valence, France: 1st place: Yisan, 2nd place: Yisan.
Academia de jogos: 1st place: Yisan

At this point you might be thinking, okay Yisan is good at 1vs1, but what about multiplayer? And the answer is, he's awesome. The more opponents you have the stronger this deck is. The main reason for that is because there are so many cards that do things at instant speed 'once per turn.' Quirion ranger and scryb ranger can untap Yisan on every player's turn, and those lands can be put into play with burgeoning on their turns too which is doubly good if you have lotus cobra in play. Wall of roots and wirewood symbiote can help with mana and other things on everyone's turn but the most ridiculously powerful card Yisan uses is seedborn muse. At that point I just wait for someone to do something and I respond by activating Yisan 1-3 times to nullify your opponents' plans and create a more powerful board state.

Since Yisan is a tutor general, you can afford to fill your deck with ramp, disruption, and haste enablers. You'll start by casting Yisan on turn 1-2, and then using him to put quirion ranger and/or scryb ranger into play (and/or maybe wirewood symbiote) to get multiple Yisan activations each turn. I'll also usually put sylvan safekeeper to protect Yisan or phyrexian revoker in play to shut down other combo cards. After I cast Yisan, I'll usually get seedborn muse on the battlefield 1-2 turns later, at which point Yisan can ruin your opponents plans and create an all-powerful board state. Basically, as soon as you land seedborn, you're damn near unbeatable.

Another gameplan is to use Yisan to chain into wirewood symbiote and elvish visionary (perhaps in the same turn, using the symbiote). And then the following turn, double-activate Yisan (using the symbiote to untap him) to put two 4cmc creatures into play: temur sabertooth and karametra's acolyte. Then the symbiote returns the visionary to untap the acolyte for more mana, and that mana is used to bounce the symbiote with the sabertooth so you can recast both creatures and do it all over again. The end result is drawing your deck and making infinite mana.


Since Yisan is doing all the work in this deck, I'm always holding back cards so I recover from boardwipes really well. And aside from gaea's cradle, mana crypt, lion's eye diamond, and fetchlands (all of which can be replaced by forests) this deck is cheap to build. Which is impressive considering how good it is. We're no longer stuck with edric for making a budget competitive deck.

This decklist is based on Mishichi's excellent list and tournament decklists.


Some of the cards I'm considering:
hall of gemstone
willow satyr
Mox diamond
skullclamp
Lightning greaves
Whisperwood elemental
sensei's top
winter orb
tangle wire
scavenging ooze

This looks pretty sweet, but just in general is Yisan really powerful enough to go toe-to-toe with stuff like Razzliox's Jarad deck or other top "competitive" commanders? He seems awfully slow to get going even with the untappers, and having to survive for multiple turns seems a chore. How does this deck rebuild after a board wipe? Also, Humility is basically a lock against you as your only answer is Beast Within.

I'd like to try and build a Yisan list like this but having to rely on the combat step to win just seems a little sketchy in competitive EDH. Unless you're playing something like Derevi which can really lock down the board. Props to you if you can make it work though.

One thing that stands out to me is Vines of Vastwood. The +4/+4 is not relevant so it's basically Ranger's Guile in your deck. Lightning Greaves seems way better for protecting Yisan.

Lightning Greaves prevents the untap effect of Quirion Ranger and Scryb Ranger making it a nonbo. I would add Chrome Mox.

Quote from FZA »

This looks pretty sweet, but just in general is Yisan really powerful enough to go toe-to-toe with stuff like Razzliox's Jarad deck or other top "competitive" commanders? He seems awfully slow to get going even with the untappers, and having to survive for multiple turns seems a chore. How does this deck rebuild after a board wipe? Also, Humility is basically a lock against you as your only answer is Beast Within.

I'd like to try and build a Yisan list like this but having to rely on the combat step to win just seems a little sketchy in competitive EDH. Unless you're playing something like Derevi which can really lock down the board. Props to you if you can make it work though.

One thing that stands out to me is Vines of Vastwood. The +4/+4 is not relevant so it's basically Ranger's Guile in your deck. Lightning Greaves seems way better for protecting Yisan.

Here are the results from the last 3 large tournaments (ignoring the ones with less than 35 competitors):
New Orleans: 1st place: Yisan
Valence, France: 1st place: Yisan. 2nd place: Yisan.
Academia de jogos: 1st place: Yisan
And Jarad was nowhere to be seen.

I haven't played it against Jarad but I'd treat him the same as I treat hermit druid, arcum, sisay, azami, etc. And that's turn 2: cast yisan, turn 3: put quirion ranger into play, untap yisan, then put phyrexian revoker into play. Winter orb and tangle wire can buy some time too.

I've been finding that it does well against boardwipes because since yisan is doing all the work in this deck, I don't have to cast much so I'm always holding back cards. I tend to recover better than my opponents since they have more of their hand on the battlefield. Also, on turn 4 I can usually get seedborn muse into play, and yisan is a monster when that happens because I just wait for what my opponents try to do and I respond appropriately. If it's a boardwipe, then I'll put soul of new phyrexia into play and make my stuff indestructible or get kamahl, fist of krosa to wipe out their lands. If they try to combo out, a duplicant or bane of progress will stop it. At the end of the last guy's turn I'll usually lay down some combination of regal force/hornet queen/terastodon and then finish on my turn with craterhoof behemoth.

But there's a bunch of combos too. Staff of domination is infinite with priest of titania or karametra's acolyte. It's also infinite with gaea's cradle or nykthos, shrine to nyx after kamahl animates it. Then there's temur sabertooth + wirewood symbiote combos, and using masticore with kamahl to destroy lands, or bring everyone's life down with shaman of forgotten ways and finish them off, etc.

Edit: You're right about humility though. Maybe I'll try to find room for nature's claim.

Quote from Donald »

Lightning Greaves prevents the untap effect of Quirion Ranger and Scryb Ranger making it a nonbo. I would add Chrome Mox.

Sorry I forgot to reply to you earlier. You're absolutely right with your reasoning and chrome mox is a good suggestion too. Although I'm curious why the tournament decklists don't include it. Presumably because the risk of getting 2-for-1 when it's destroyed.

Quote from Mishichi »

Vines of Vastwood has added utility compared to other similar spells : it can counter aura-based combos, delay other combos like Kiki-jiki/Equipment/Staff of Domination/etc. It comes up surprisingly often.

Quite right. I find the +4+4 relevant too for all those black spells that say creatures get -x -x until end of turn.

Quote from rockondon »

Quote from FZA »

This looks pretty sweet, but just in general is Yisan really powerful enough to go toe-to-toe with stuff like Razzliox's Jarad deck or other top "competitive" commanders? He seems awfully slow to get going even with the untappers, and having to survive for multiple turns seems a chore. How does this deck rebuild after a board wipe? Also, Humility is basically a lock against you as your only answer is Beast Within.

I'd like to try and build a Yisan list like this but having to rely on the combat step to win just seems a little sketchy in competitive EDH. Unless you're playing something like Derevi which can really lock down the board. Props to you if you can make it work though.

One thing that stands out to me is Vines of Vastwood. The +4/+4 is not relevant so it's basically Ranger's Guile in your deck. Lightning Greaves seems way better for protecting Yisan.

Here are the results from the last 3 large tournaments (ignoring the ones with less than 35 competitors):
New Orleans: 1st place: Yisan
Valence, France: 1st place: Yisan. 2nd place: Yisan.
Academia de jogos: 1st place: Yisan
And Jarad was nowhere to be seen.

I haven't played it against Jarad but I'd treat him the same as I treat hermit druid, arcum, sisay, azami, etc. And that's turn 2: cast yisan, turn 3: put quirion ranger into play, untap yisan, then put phyrexian revoker into play. Winter orb and tangle wire can buy some time too.

I've been finding that it does well against boardwipes because since yisan is doing all the work in this deck, I don't have to cast much so I'm always holding back cards. I tend to recover better than my opponents since they have more of their hand on the battlefield. Also, on turn 4 I can usually get seedborn muse into play, and yisan is a monster when that happens because I just wait for what my opponents try to do and I respond appropriately. If it's a boardwipe, then I'll put soul of new phyrexia into play and make my stuff indestructible or get kamahl, fist of krosa to wipe out their lands. If they try to combo out, a duplicant or bane of progress will stop it. At the end of the last guy's turn I'll usually lay down some combination of regal force/hornet queen/terastodon and then finish on my turn with craterhoof behemoth.

But there's a bunch of combos too. Staff of domination is infinite with priest of titania or karametra's acolyte. It's also infinite with gaea's cradle or nykthos, shrine to nyx after kamahl animates it. Then there's temur sabertooth + wirewood symbiote combos, and using masticore with kamahl to destroy lands, or bring everyone's life down with shaman of forgotten ways and finish them off, etc.

Edit: You're right about humility though. Maybe I'll try to find room for nature's claim.

Note that those results are from 1-v-1 French tournaments, where it's much more feasible to win through the combat step as you only have to kill 1 player at 30 life. Aggro/Elfball strategies have been viable in French so I'm not surprised there. I guess I'm just a little more skeptical of how this deck reliably beats decks that can win through a combo or hard lock the board.

You mention Staff of Domination, but I don't see it in your decklist. I think it'd be a nice addition.

Overall, I really like the deck, and I'm going to try it out for myself. Hopefully my skepticism will be unfounded!

I missed the nombo of Greaves + Ranger/Symbiote. However I still am wondering if there's a more permanent source of protection you can use, rather than a one-shot effect. Unfortunately Steely Resolve suffers from the same problem as Greaves.

Lastly, I think there are better Naturalize effects than Nature's Claim. Krosan Grip comes to mind.

Quote from FZA »

I guess I'm just a little more skeptical of how this deck reliably beats decks that can win through a combo or hard lock the board.

You mention Staff of Domination, but I don't see it in your decklist. I think it'd be a nice addition.

Overall, I really like the deck, and I'm going to try it out for myself. Hopefully my skepticism will be unfounded!

I missed the nombo of Greaves + Ranger/Symbiote. However I still am wondering if there's a more permanent source of protection you can use, rather than a one-shot effect. Unfortunately Steely Resolve suffers from the same problem as Greaves.

Lastly, I think there are better Naturalize effects than Nature's Claim. Krosan Grip comes to mind.

Thanks for mentioning staff of domination. I forgot to include it.
You're right to be skeptical and I am too. The deck has done well so far but I haven't tested it that much, and I don't even have it all together yet. Some of that decklist is still in the mail.

I'm still getting used to playing Yisan. For example, it generates mana unlike any other deck I've played - the interaction of quirion ranger/scryb ranger bouncing forests to my hand and oracle of mul daya, azusa, and exploration letting me play them again and lotus cobra giving me mana every time one hits the board (or I use a fetchland) is a pretty neat interaction and great synergy. I'm also learning that it's sometimes better to ignore yisan's ability and focus on a combo win instead. After I learn the deck better, I'll drop some of the cards that aren't performing and replace them with ramp or disruption.

As for more permanent protection, sylvan safekeeper is sometimes my first target. It's nice that yisan works at instant speed, so you can respond to things and fizzle spells.

Quote from rockondon »

Sorry I forgot to reply to you earlier. You're absolutely right with your reasoning and chrome mox is a good suggestion too. Although I'm curious why the tournament decklists don't include it. Presumably because the risk of getting 2-for-1 when it's destroyed.

Technically it 2-for-1's you when you imprint not when they blow it up but regardless it makes turn 2 Yisan and can replace a basic Forest so I think it's well worth the upside. Yisan should be providing plenty of card advantage and worst case you're not forced to cast it.

So I played a few games tonight of 1vs1 against narset, enlightened master, which was not nearly fast enough to handle yisan.

Then his friend showed up with a hazezon tamar deck which wasn't great for yisan because it was full of boardwipes. I found myself always dealing with narset and I was only able to get yisan up to 4 counters both games before the boardwipe hit. Narset was left alone so it felt like 2vs1. If I could just get Yisan up to 5 counters, then I could get seedborn muse into play, followed by soul of new phyrexia in response to the boardwipe. But I was always just shy in mana to get the seedborn. Once my stuff died, Narset took over.

Admittedly, I'm waiting for a few mana cards (lotus cobra, mana vault, oracle of mul daya, burgeoning, concordant crossroads) and the deck will be faster when they get here, but I'm thinking I can still speed it up more. I'm considering:
- temur sabretooth (fancy, but impractical. Not great unless I have the right assortment of combo pieces.)
- whisperwood elemental (nice for boardwipes, but I want seedborn for the 5 cmc slot)
- voyaging satyr (sometimes he's good, other times he's mediocre)
+ chrome mox
+ elvish spirit guide
+ forest

I'll do some more playtesting before I decide.

A very interesting list to be sure. Mono-Green combo seems really strong and I'm always wary when one of our group members pulls out Yisan. After seeing this list and seeing some of the synergies, I agree. I know I'll certainly be keeping an eye on this list.

Has Woodfall Primus been considered? With the bounce effects, built-in resilience to wraths, and mana production that this deck is able to field, it seems like it would be a strong inclusion. Although top-heavy. I understand if it doesn't make it, since Terastodon performs the same function.

Quote from benjameenbear »

A very interesting list to be sure. Mono-Green combo seems really strong and I'm always wary when one of our group members pulls out Yisan. After seeing this list and seeing some of the synergies, I agree. I know I'll certainly be keeping an eye on this list.

Has Woodfall Primus been considered? With the bounce effects, built-in resilience to wraths, and mana production that this deck is able to field, it seems like it would be a strong inclusion. Although top-heavy. I understand if it doesn't make it, since Terastodon performs the same function.

I did consider primus and you do raise some excellent points about it. But I prefer the devastation that terastodon brings the moment he hits the field. My favorite is using him early on using natural order to shut someone down before they can stop me. That being said, this deck is new to me and with time, perhaps the primus might one day earn itself a slot.

I've found the Masticore combo with Seeborn and Kahmal a lot of fun but haven't had too much success with it outside of 1 v 1 where it dominates.
Still working on my own brew with a lot more removal like nature's claim and krosan grip.


Any reason you're not running Yeva? She's been real good in my build so far, espcially with Temur Sabertooth, which I cant imagine cutting.


Also I like the idea of Thought-Knot Seer as a tutorable Clique effect. Maybe worth a slot?

Quote from Dies_to_Doom_Blade »

I've found the Masticore combo with Seeborn and Kahmal a lot of fun but haven't had too much success with it outside of 1 v 1 where it dominates.
Still working on my own brew with a lot more removal like nature's claim and krosan grip.


Any reason you're not running Yeva? She's been real good in my build so far, espcially with Temur Sabertooth, which I cant imagine cutting.


Also I like the idea of Thought-Knot Seer as a tutorable Clique effect. Maybe worth a slot?

Thought-Knot Seer...dominating Modern. I think it's a strong inclusion since you want to try and protect Yisan as much as possible.

Have additional Stax effects been considered as well? Combined with the amount of land destruction that you can potentially field they would be crippling. Static Orb comes to mind.

Static orb makes our creatures not untap so that's a huge non-bo.
Unless we can land it and seedborn but it seems risky

Quote from Dies_to_Doom_Blade »

I've found the Masticore combo with Seeborn and Kahmal a lot of fun but haven't had too much success with it outside of 1 v 1 where it dominates.
Still working on my own brew with a lot more removal like nature's claim and krosan grip.
Any reason you're not running Yeva? She's been real good in my build so far, espcially with Temur Sabertooth, which I cant imagine cutting.
Also I like the idea of Thought-Knot Seer as a tutorable Clique effect. Maybe worth a slot?

I haven't been running yeva because I'm trying to avoid running anything that slows down my gameplan.
When I play this deck in my playgroup, if I have 4 counters on yisan and I end my turn, one of two things will happen. If I have good luck, Yisan will be destroyed. If I have average luck, my entire board state will be destroyed. So I've been focusing on how to get seedborn on the battlefield asap.

That being said, I'm currently looking into a secondary gameplan. And that's putting wirewood symbiote on the battlefield, then scryb ranger, then double activating yisan for karametra's acolyte and temur sabertooth - which is infinite mana. That's potentially faster than the seedborn route so I'll see how it goes.

I am missing something here.
How does Sabertooth and acolyte make infinite?

Do you have concordant crossroads on board as well?

Quote from Dies_to_Doom_Blade »

I am missing something here.
How does Sabertooth and acolyte make infinite?

Do you have concordant crossroads on board as well?

You bounce Symbiote or Ranger to get infinite untaps

Ah, are we assuming that we got Acolyte and sabertooth at end of opponents turn then?
If so is that infinite sine we have a finite number of lands to bounce?
With symbiote that would work a lot better.

Symbiote as the 1 cmc
Visionary as the 2 cmc
And both of them for the 4. I can see that working.

Yeah, it would have to be the Symbiote. I use something similar in Marath, mostly getting Priest of Titania on 2 and Mirror Entity on 3. Considering adopting the Sabertooth as well, as the chain you described gets to pick up Visionary on 2 to draw the deck.

Just some random cards I thought of, most are probably terrible but at least some food for thought.

Lotus Petal/Elvish Spirit Guide/Mox Diamond - More mana. Card advantage doesn't seem as important as speed. Elvish Spirit Guide can be fetched with Summoner's Pact which is something.

Skyshroud Ranger - Sorcery speed only on the ranger is bad but the main reason to include it is turn 2 Yisan, plus it's an elf. There's also Walking Atlas at the 2cc slot.

Keeper of Progenitus - Probably just a worse Karametra's Acolyte but being able to tutor for Mana Flare may have some applications.

Skullclamp - It's Skullclamp.

Carpet of Flowers - It's pretty ridiculous in many metas and since you can get the mana during your second main it's going to be either free or generate mana. If an opponent is monoblue it's obviously insane.

Gaea's Touch - Janky Exploration but can also sac it as a ritual.

EDIT: Also Ritual of Subdual is very expensive but a pretty nasty hate card if that's the kind of thing you're looking for.

Hmm...all you need is 6 devotion to go infinite with those and the cards all on board make 5 (6 with Yisan) so that's pretty insane.
Now you can play your entire deck.
Seems...pretty good.
Looks like I need to revise my own list since it has more cute options that frankly won't be used now.


In other words. How can we kill Linvala?
I have tracker to kill mindcensor if need be but other than Duplicant (Which we often search for) I can't think of a creature that kills her.
Doesn't help that I'm using Fauna shaman over survival here...

A protected hexproof linvala is damn hard.
We can kill Iona and Elesh norn with not as much difficulty but I can't think of a Linvala kill

Quote from Dies_to_Doom_Blade »

Hmm...all you need is 6 devotion to go infinite with those and the cards all on board make 5 (6 with Yisan) so that's pretty insane.
Now you can play your entire deck.
Seems...pretty good.
Looks like I need to revise my own list since it has more cute options that frankly won't be used now.


In other words. How can we kill Linvala?
I have tracker to kill mindcensor if need be but other than Duplicant (Which we often search for) I can't think of a creature that kills her.
Doesn't help that I'm using Fauna shaman over survival here...

A protected hexproof linvala is damn hard.
We can kill Iona and Elesh norn with not as much difficulty but I can't think of a Linvala kill

I think you're supposed to Lignify her. If she's gets hexproof then you get rid of whatever is giving it to her. I suppose there's Stingerfling Spider if you're really desperate for a second Duplicant.

Yeah I'm running Lignify and Treefolk Harbinger just to get that for that but I'm thinking of the common situation in my group where she's on board with a sylvan safekeeper or something.
Tornado elemental may be worth running just for that but it would be something on a test list for certain metas rather than a definitive list

Quote from Dies_to_Doom_Blade »

Yeah I'm running Lignify and Treefolk Harbinger just to get that for that but I'm thinking of the common situation in my group where she's on board with a sylvan safekeeper or something.
Tornado elemental may be worth running just for that but it would be something on a test list for certain metas rather than a definitive list

You've got Phyrexian Revoker for Safekeeper but yes that's a bad spot to be in. Adding some more tutors would help without adding in bad cards. My meta has rampant Humility so it could be worse, if I build this it would be for MTGO only I think.

This seems more up my alley than what I tried to do with Reki. In the wake of the Prophet ban, I've really wanted a deck that's commander can abuse Seedborn Muse. Great list, can't wait to see the thread evolve and test it myself. Lots of familiar faces looking at it too- always a good sign.