I’m torn between Debt to the Deathless, and Exsanguinate, which is way easier to cast. Sometimes they serve not as a finisher, but only to keep me alive for one more turn. Or, to put me above 50 life, and enable Ayli’s vindicate ability. (Rare, but it does happen)
I still think that Disciple having a body to recur is where I want to be. I still haven't picked up a Xiahou Dun yet, so that might change at some point, but if you like the other options, then use what works.
Quote from tarotplz »Alright, like I said I ended up buying a cheap Demonic Tutor and some other stuff, so I thought since I haven't posted my decklist in a while, I could do just that to get some critiques and ideas for further improvements.
Tell me what you think! I think Disciple of Bolas and Night's Whisper might be some of the first cards to cut. I kinda miss Crypt Ghast, which I took out of the deck a while ago, so I might end up adding that again.
Let me know what cards you'd take out, and which ones you would add
Looking pretty sweet! How are you liking Treasure Keeper? I've personally passed over trying it because it's a pretty big gamble without setting up the top and I'm afraid of feel bad moments where I see cards I could cast, but don't want to quite yet and end up putting them on the bottom of my library instead of drawing them to use for later :x I see you decided to try Dawn of the Dead I recently acquired a foil Italian Debtors' Knell and snuck it into my Elenda, the Dusk Rose deck because it's so pretty and one of my favorite pet cards
Recent Discussion!
On card draw:
I used to run Promise of Power and it was pretty great for me. Ultimately it was cut while trying to lower the overall CMC over time. I did also run Disciple of Bolas back when I was still filling in holes for stuff I was waiting to put in the deck. The amount of draw power I got out of it felt a bit too situational for my taste. There were a lot of factors before I'd want to cast it, i.e. a decent sized creature on the battlefield, that I also wanted to sacrifice at a given time. In the late game I could recur it and draw a lot of cards by by that time between my other draw options and the tutors available it didn't feel too necessary. Morbid Curiosity isn't bad but not great either and suffers from the same kind of situational thing where you're waiting for a good time to use it. But I'm not saying any of these are bad by any means - this has just been my experience with all of them that lead to me not running them in my own list.
Exsanguinate vs Debt to the Deathless
I've gone over these at an earlier point in the thread, but I prefer Exsanguinate because the mana cost at which it and Debt to the Deathless meet parity is pretty high.
1WWBB = 2 life loss 3BB = 3 life loss
2WWBB = 4 life loss 4BB = 4 life loss
3WWBB = 6 life loss 5BB = 5 life loss
So, outside of using either with infinite mana combos that will kill the table regardless, you have to spend 3WWBB (7 total for it to escape parity with Exsanguinate. That takes it farther out of situations where you may want to use either of these to save you if you're drawing heat or in a pod with a lot of aggro decks. In a pod of four players, for an Exsanguinate casted at 4BB you're gaining 12 life back and need less of a colored mana investment to use for other things. Maybe a situation arises where you want to activate Vizkopa Guildmage where having the extra colored mana you used to cast Debt to the Deathless could have been important. With the extra colored mana investment and needing to cost 7 mana total before it's better than Exsanguinate, this is why I personally choose Exsanguinate
Phyrexian Altar
I'm super glad that this got reprinted and is a bit cheaper now! It's quickly bouncing back to nearly $20 again :/ I don't think I'll be adding one to the deck, myself. In my build the colorless mana from Ashnod's Altar goes a lot farther (Nim Deathmantle, sac engine loops, Corpse Dance, etc) and the 3CC slot is pretty full up to consider just adding it outright. I certainly don't blame anyone for running it, though!
Mana Acceleration
I still want to get a Mox Amber to test out in the deck. With typically playing Ayli on Turn 2 it seems like it'd be active most of the game. I certainly am never sad to see it in my Yuriko, Tiger's Shadow deck. I don't run Land Tax or Boreas Charger in my build because I run so few basic lands, and I tend to already draw more lands than I can play because of Necropotence, Phyrexian Arena and Weathered Wayfarer. I however am considering replacing Wayfarer's Bauble with Land Tax. It's not a card I've been super happy with and the price on Land Tax is much less prohibitive at the moment.
Crypt Ghast and similar effects I don't run mostly for reasons I've discussed before with y'all, or in the main post. Without Urborg it feels like a dead Creature, and I get a lot of mileage out of my utility lands in a given game where I need to use the extra abilities rather than tap them for BB. Again a card that's not bad by any means but not my preference
Promise of Power
I know it's not the very best - when compared to Necropotence, for example, but I like to have enough carddraw and tutors in the deck. This will be replaced in a heartbeat when something better comes along, but for now...
Mana acceleration Mox Amber and Mox Diamond are doing a lot of work for me, often getting out Ayli T1. Removed Mana Crypt, and happy about it! Land Tax is good! It smooths out landdrops every turn, fills up your hand, so enables eot discarding (for reanimation), and works like Ancestral Recall when you happen to have a Scroll Rack out.
Below: a pic of my actual deck - organized by land, mana-accelaeration, tutors, card draw, recursion, removal, sweepers, sacrifice-outlets, wincons, and various.
I don't run Exsanguinate, I use a heavy re-animator package to pound and pound my opponents combo pieces away. This deck turtles. When you turtle, you should be able to combo off by exiling the board. I've been using Cavern of Souls choosing Spirits for Karmic Guide combo. Also works on the dragons.
I know you think Dawn of the Dead is slow, but when you're constantly re-animating stuff every turn and sacking them for life with Alyi, you're getting to 50 life pretty fast for Ayli's second ability. (Another great card for Academy Rector). Also, have you tried Demon of Dark Schemes, Phyrexian Delver, and Reanimate?
About Academy Rector: I'm not sure whether Kelzam is running it, but I decided against it, as it's a high-profile card that paints an unnecessary target on me. I also very much like the low cmc of my other tutors (Vampiric, Demonic, Enlightened, Imperial Seal). I know: I'm also running creature tutors that are 5CMC+ (Sidisi, Recruiter, Rune-Scarred, and Razaketh) - but I feel they're just a bit more impactful than Academy Rector. You made a very good point about Razaketh, however: I'm trying without him for a while.
Dawn of the dead and Debtor's Knell are a bit too slow for me. They do nothing until my next turn, and draw unneeded attention. (you said it well: we 'turtle' - and try to look unthreatening Palpatine-like).
Play report from yesterday:
Once again, my Yosei proved a major griever, but, unfortunately for me, this time, from an opponent who cast it from my library (with Villainous Wealth) and locked ME out of the game (with reanimation backup). :-(
Ravnica Allegiance update:
I'm so stoked for new Teysa, I'm considering converting my list back to Teysa, Orzhov Scion (how it started many, many years ago during BlackJack's era) and adding Teysa 3.0: DeatHarmonicon FTW!
I was talking with some fiends about the number of unique infinite combo's our decks contained, and for my Ayli deck I couldn't really think of all combinations from the top of my head, so I made a list when I was bored.
Counted combo's upto 4 cards (not counting Ayli). I got to 41 47 (47 53 if you include infinite scy).
Thought I'd share ^^
I was talking with some fiends about the number of unique infinite combo's our decks contained, and for my Ayli deck I couldn't really think of all combinations from the top of my head, so I made a list when I was bored.
Counted combo's upto 4 cards (not counting Ayli). I got to 41 (47 if you include infinite scy).
Thought I'd share ^^
this... is amazingly helpful. thank you for this. i've had ayli on the backburner for a bit and i'm always back and forth on building her, or someone else to fill my b/w need. i lean really heavily toward her, despite new teysa being really fun
For a few weeks, I've been running a deck where I converted my Ayli to Teysa 3.0 - link here - but I'm back to Ayli now. Teysa was a great learning experience, but I just love the synergy/combo and recursion in Ayli.
EDIT: I just saw Kaya’s Ghostform. Sweet. Could perhaps replace Angelic Renewal?
Hey everyone! Long delay since updating here, because... well, I confess that I've been focusing on a lot of other decks lately because Ayli has felt like she is in such a great spot and there hasn't been many cards to change or consider. But, War of the Spark is nearly upon us and that means I need to kick it into gear and do a quick review of Ravnica Allegiances! I'll look at everyone's posts and catch up in a separate post
Ravnica Allegiances Set Review!
As always, I'll only be mentioning ones that are particular interest, here, rather than looking at each card in the set. Not even everything listed here is an auto-include or worth heavy consideration, but can at least be a talking point.
White
Angel of Grace - We've seen similar effects to this the last few years such as Exquisite Archangel, Stunning Reversal and Resolute Archangel. These effects all basically prevent you from losing the game. I'm truthfully not a fan of any of these effects, because if you're in a position such as this then you're probably going to lose whether the save you or not. While you could make quite a come back, sitting at 1 life is quite perilous. Out of all of these effects, Resolute Archangel is probably my favorite because per the rules, whenever your life total becomes a set number, you gain or lose any amount of life equal to the difference. At least in that case, Resoluge Archangel works with Vizkopa Guildmage or Sanguine Bond if you play it.
Forbidding Spirit - Because of the ease of reanimation a Creature and the amount of effects that look for Creature deaths and the ability to save Creatures from exile effects by sacrificing them, it's almost always better to have an effect attached to a Creature than anything else. Forbidding Spirit is a one-off Ghostly Prison effect that lasts until your next turn. Depending on how much recursion you run and how easy it is to repeatedly reanimate something, Forbidding Spirit could quite easily be better than Ghostly Prison for Ayli. In addition, each time he enters the battlefield as a new permanent, his effect stacks. So, if you don't want to board wipe or want to encourage opponents to attack at other players, you can chain reanimate him with Corpse Dance or Nim Deathmantle and stack the Ghostly Prison effect.
Smothering Tithe - There is truly very little reason not to run Smothering Tithe in Ayli. The deck becomes mana hungry, and in times where you're the archenemy and spending a lot of resources on removal, recursion for that removal and keeping the hounds at bay, Smothering Tithe can be giving you a lot of excess mana. If you've seen the Ravnica Brawl Game Knights episode on YouTube, you'll also know how dangerous this makes wheels become for your opponents to cast.
Tithe Taker - I'd truly rather run Grand Abolisher. The 1 mana is a pittance to pay past Turn 3 or 4. If you're running a tax-heavy build where you're stacking those types of taxing effects, then he could be another to add to the pile. Otherwise, I'd steer clear of considering this guy.
Black
Font of Agonies - It would be very easy to add up counters on Font of Agonies. That much is certain. The problem with Font of Agonies is that there's already so much removal available that can target more than just Creatures. You could just as easily run Attrition and have sac fodder mostly on demand, or at least as often as you would have four blood counters on Font of Agonies. There will also be times you just never draw into those cards you pay life for, which are mainly Necropotence.
Priest of Forgotten Gods - Having to have two other Creatures on the battlefield that you want to sacrifice is the biggest downside of this Priest. It's quite often that we have at least one Creature to abuse for sacrifice. The effect you get for activating the Priest is well worth it and a huge advantage for you. I have yet to test her because I'm having a very hard time justifying putting her in place of something else. I think a comparable replacement would be Mangara of Corondor if you're running her, because of all the other exile effects available to Ayli. It can also be a meta call! If Enchantments and Artifacts aren't being super abused in your format, Leonin Relic-Warder could also make sense as a cut to try Priest of Forgotten Gods, with the caveat that you need to consistently have two other Creatures you're willing to sacrifice to use her.
Multicolor
Kaya, Orzhov Usurper - Once upon a time, many people thought that the new Kaya was a joke, and that her abilities would be too hard to use. Now, in the current Standard Esper Control lists, her -5 is a win condition. Consider this: You are very often paying life or losing life for something. She has continuous, cheap graveyard hate while simultaneously gaining you life every turn. Orzhov removal is already exiling cards left and right, especially if you run Merciless Eviction or Bojuka Bog another player. You can easily finish someone off with Kaya's -5 while gaining a ton of life in the late game. Her -1 isn't too relevant, but is a bonus because it can help slow others down to your level by exiling their Mana Crypt, Sol Ring, Mana Vault and so on. She really is worth considering!
Kaya's Wrath - This is technically better than Damnation or Wrath of God in most cases, because outside of facing Ezuri, Renegade Leader the "can't be regenerated" at the end of those is very rarely relevant. Kaya's Wrath gains you some life back that you probably lost if you're looking to wrath the board. An easy include, and a lot cheaper than the other two 4CC wrath effects, too!
Teysa Karlov - She is the most stand out card in the set for our strategy. Teysa is a Panharmonicon for death triggers, with the additional ability of giving tokens vigilance and lifelink. The biggest problem with including Teysa, is that just like Panharmonicon, half of the time or more she doesn't do anything. She makes certain triggers that much more deadly, and there is no denying that. But, unless you're running a token heavy build, she loses a lot of her oomph. Out of the 30 Creatures I run in my build, 7 have effects that actually happen on death that are triggered. Is it worth it to run her for just 7 creatures, even though those effects are powerful? It's a turn and 4 mana to play something that does nothing when it enters the battlefield. I truly can't say whether to run her or not, because it really depends on your own builds. For my own, I think passing on her is not something I will regret doing.
Revival // Revenge - This is an interesting utility card. There are 8 potential targets in my build for Revival, which isn't particularly bad for it's cost. Most of them are important pieces such as Viscera Seer, Fiend Hunter, Recruiter of the Guard, Vizkopa Guildmage and so on. When you don't need that, Revenge is a giant "SCREW YOU!" to an opponent that is being hard to kill, while buffering your own life total. While I have a hard time wanting to cut something for this, I could easily replace Unburial Rites or another similar reanimation effect for it to have the Revenge half waiting to nearly finish someone off. When you consider that you can get this back with Xiahou Dun, the One-Eyed, it seems really silly to not want to run it.
Conclusion
It's not often we get the opportunity to see so many potential playables or upgrades in a set. It usually comes with these Ravnica sets because we get a set where at least a portion of it is dedicated to the Orzhov. All of the cards I mentioned here are quite playable in their own right, and there are many cards I did not go over such as the Afterlife cards that one could quite easily abuse in a build wanting to focus more on tokens.
War of the Spark is looking very interesting so far, so I'll be back soon to talk more about that, as well as potentially announce some changes to Ayli that I've been testing despite mostly focusing on fine tuning other decks. I hope everyone has been doing well, and thank everyone for the continued interest, feedback and participation in building and playing Ayli
Despark and Kaya's Ghostform didn’t show up in my hand the entire evening last Wednesday, and I didn’t feel the need to spend a tutor on them. If, and when, you’ll know
What became rather clear, however, is how this deck struggles against decks that can say ‘I Win’ with a sorcery or instant. Opponent resolved Selvala's Stampede, allowing him to put a few permanents into play, which happened to be some planeswalkers and a Doubling Season, ulting them, and winning on the spot. We can only hope for a U player to be present, and being able to say ‘No’. Which wasn’t the case. Do you have similar experiences? Do you have a gameplan against such situations?
Despark and Kaya's Ghostform didn’t show up in my hand the entire evening last Wednesday, and I didn’t feel the need to spend a tutor on them. If, and when, you’ll know
What became rather clear, however, is how this deck struggles against decks that can say ‘I Win’ with a sorcery or instant. Opponent resolved Selvala's Stampede, allowing him to put a few permanents into play, which happened to be some planeswalkers and a Doubling Season, ulting them, and winning on the spot. We can only hope for a U player to be present, and being able to say ‘No’. Which wasn’t the case. Do you have similar experiences? Do you have a gameplan against such situations?
Yeah, we have difficulty interacting with these kind of things. I guess our best shot to deal with them is either discard from the black side or tax effects from the white side, both with the goal to prevent them from casting those kind of spells entirely.
Hey y'all. With Modern Horizons being previewed, I wanted to stop by and talk about War of the Spark. I have a few updates to my build in the main post that I'll be posting separately here in a bit, as well as my thoughts on dealing with cards like Selvala's Stampede For right now, let's talk about that crazy Planeswalker set!
War of the Spark Set Review!
As always, I'll only be mentioning ones that are particular interest, here, rather than looking at each card in the set. Not even everything listed here is an auto-include or worth heavy consideration, but can at least be a talking point.
White
God-Eternal Oketra - What an amazingly powerful card! For 5-mana, a Double Strike, 3/6 that keeps coming back is already crazy enough. Add in her 1st triggered ability and it's just insane. I'm actually testing God-Eternal Oketra right now, and the additional board pressure has been pretty fantastic. 4/4 bodies are hard to deal with outside of board wipes, and Ayli can recover well from those. If you're running cards like Phyrexian Reclamation or Athreos, God of Passage, every creature you return to your hand threatens to come with a 4/4 vigilance Zombie in addition to whatever card you got back to cast. Absolutely stunning card worth trying!
Black
Bolas's Citadel - I just wanted to mention it here because it's obviously one of the power house cards in the set. It unfortunately really doesn't work that well here. We're already paying a chunk of life to other effects, and many of the cards in the deck that we use for ETB/death triggers are on the higher end of converted mana costs. This card isn't exactly for us.
Command the Dreadhorde - Alternatively, there's Command the Dreadhorde which can target both Creatures AND Planeswalkers. At 6-mana it's rather expensive, but could easily piece together a winning board state from our own graveyards and others'. It's worth a look, especially when played alongside cards like Glacial Chasm or other ways to prevent taking damage for that turn.
Dreadhorde Invasion - Comparable to Bitterblossom this is not. For us, this is simply sac fodder. At the cost of 1 life each turn, it's not particularly appealing, especially because if you do want sac fodder you're better off going wide than tall.
Finalie of Eternity - This is one of my favorite cards in the set! Unfortunately it's not an Instant, but if you need to take care of an aggressive board state early in the game without spending a board wipe, this can be a really good way of doing so. The flexibility is great, even with the secondary effect of pumping 10 mana into it aside. The final part of the spell is icing on the cake, but mana that we can easily generate in the later part of the game thanks to synergies with Ashnod's Altar.
God-Eternal Bontu - The second God-Eternal we're looking at is also pretty decent. A 5/6 body with Menace is nothing to laugh at, but what I love about Bontu is she can turn mana rocks and excess lands into card advantage in the late game. She's not an autoinclude by any means because there is a decent amount of card advantage already available to us, but she certainly is worthy of consideration.
Kaya's Ghostform - One could look at this and compare it to Angelic Renewal or Gift of Immortality. The down side of this compared to Angelic Renewal is that you need a target to put it on, and can't simply cast it and have it out on the battlefield ready and waiting. There are very few Planeswalkers worth considering for Ayli, so the ability to target Planeswalkers isn't too relevant. Overall it'd be hard to justify taking anything else out of the deck to put in Kaya's Ghostform.
Liliana, Dreadhorde General - Speaking of the very few Planeswalkers that are worthy of putting in Ayli, this Liliana may well be one of them. Her static ability is very useful to us, and one of the only cards out there that doesn't specify "non-token Creature" to draw your card. Making a blocker or more sac fodder with her +1 is pretty average, but her -4 causing everyone to sacrifice two creatures is brutal for opponents while we hardly flinch. If you get her -9, it's a Cataclysm, though you should generally never assume you'll get a Planeswalker's ultimate. She is worth a try, though her 4BB mana cost has her competing with a lot of other things we want to be doing with the deck at that stage.
Liliana's Triumph - This is a pretty decent removal spell early on in the game that gets around Indestructible, Shroud and Hexproof. It's potentially worth considering at 1B and at Instant speed, but I find it really hard to see a card in the deck I'd pull for this, as targeted permanent removal is much more important.
Massacre Girl - I'll admit that this is a fun card with a really fun effect. The problem, though, is that you want to wait for her to get enough triggers to clear the board. Massacre Wurm she is not, as she provides no benefit from killing the creatures she kills. Really, if you want to kill the board, you either want to just kill it cleanly with an actual board wipe, but at least get some bonus for doing so. While a cute card, she unfortunately really doesn't do enough.
Multicolor
Cruel Celebrant - Here we have another version of Zulaport Cutthroat. I'm actually replacing Blood Artist in all of my decks with Cruel Celebrant for a couple reasons. Although Blood Artist triggers off of opponent's Creatures dying as well, the triggers from it and cards like it are mostly from my own sac engines running off. The second reason is that I prefer Zulaport and Celebrant due to them not targeting and hitting each opponent at the same time. No one can give themselves protection or hexproof and them be untargetable with these.
Despark - So, first, I'll give the short of my opinion on this removal card: I would never play over Utter End, Anguished Unmaking or Vindicate. Here's why: One reason is that I don't like the condition that the target must have a 4CMC or greater on Despark. It's easy to be tricked into thinking it's a better option than another spell card because it only costs WB and can hit a lot of targets in the mid/late game. But, that is still far too inconsistent for me. I'd rather have another spell that can remove Scavenging Ooze and stop my graveyard from being eaten, or exile Eternal Witness to stop recursion shenanigans. There are a lot of cases where I see myself sitting with a 2CMC card in my hand that can't hit a lot of the linchpins that lead to broken game states. I'll gladly pay 1 more for Vindicate. The largest threats aren't always 4CMC and above. Sometimes they're Cloudstone Curios, or Ashnod's Altars and other 2-3 mana sac outlets or engines that you need to kill ASAP. I want the most options I can muster, because depending on other people having good threat assessment is a liability, and the ability to surgically remove basically any target is an effect worth high redundancy. I'd still have Vindicate over this as a way to easily take out Maze of Ith, Volrath's Stronghold, Gavony Township, Gaea's Cradle, Itlimoc, Cradle of the Sun etc. Recently decks in my meta have started loading up on Inkmoth Nexus + Karn's Bastion after I suggested the combination to a friend, because Evolution Sage/Flux Channeler can allow a scary amount of Proliferate. The Ixalan flip lands are huge, and Search for Azcanta flipped makes it really hard to slow spellslinger decks down. Costing 1-2 mana less than the existing options does not make it worth it, when it excludes so many important targets.
Sorin, Vengeful Bloodlord - I don't have much to say about the newest Sorin, unfortunately. The truth is that he doesn't do enough. His static ability only applies during our own turn. If you're still playing Sorin, Grim Nemesis or trouble with life in the late game and can swing in with our big fliers, he could be worth having on the board for that. Sometimes. But his +2 is unfortunately very weak, and his -X is costly when we have so many amazing reanimation options, as it is.
Lands
Blast Zone - This card is up for debate. On one hand, Ayli is very hungry for colored mana. In almost any scenario, I'd rather have colored mana than colorless. I already run a ton of utility lands, so this would have to be put in at the cost of replacing something else. It's something to do every turn with extra mana before your turn wheels back around, though, and threatens opponents and makes them think twice about playing combo pieces or certain cards. It may well be worth trying in place of a redundant effect like Kor Haven.
Emergence Zone - Despite a certain podcast duo constantly harping about Vedalken Orrery, I have refused to run it in any of my decks. A 4-mana do-nothing card when it enters the battlefield is not my cup of tea, and when I did try to run it in my decks, I often found that it sat in my hand because I didn't want to tap out to play it, or there was something way more effective I could be doing, instead. This goes not just for Ayli, but any deck I've played it in. What I have done, however, is add Emergence Zone to every deck I play, because flashing spells out of no where in the late game can easily set up for a win on my upcoming turn. This is something I highly recommend trying, because it only takes a land slot, rather than a spell slot. What I said above about Blasting Zone and the amount of utility lands I run holds true, but the potential for blowing out opponents at flash speed from a Land slot is far too good to pass up!
I just got a feeling my Vindicate might be swapped out for an Elephantdonation.
Edit: forgot to mention that at the moment Vindicate is already out, and Despark (momentarily testing in its place) did prove super and versatile. Almost always the thing I NEED to exile is a permanent with CMC 4+
I just got a feeling my Vindicate might be swapped out for an Elephantdonation.
Edit: forgot to mention that at the moment Vindicate is already out, and Despark (momentarily testing in its place) did prove super and versatile. Almost always the thing I NEED to exile is a permanent with CMC 4+
Although my feelings on Despark differ, I added a section for it above I meant to address this and it slipped through the cracks.
I do very much like Generous Gift! I'm also very interested in Force of Despair and Silent Clearing More board wipe options are always welcome, and late game lands that turn into card draw sounds fantastic! (also which could be brought back with Sun Titan to sac again for more draw, if no better targets existed!)
Thanks (as always) for your efforts writing your analysis!
You make a solid point, about Despark, I might have to reconsider. Maybe, I think I value the instantspeed more than the extra 1 Mana. No good having a Vindicate in hand when opponent plays a Cloudstone Curio only when he can end the game with it there and then. It’s also very likely Generous Gift will take that slot of Vindicate in my deck.
About Force of Despair: often, I wait for a maximum amount (or quality) of creatures before playing a boardwipe.
Having to decide to boardwipe on just that turn feels a bit... suboptimal to me.
Silent clearing is nice, but as life is often a resource for us (Necropotence, fetchlands, etc) I’m not certain I need another dual that hurts. I don’t think I would remove a basic land or another dual for it.
Kaya’s Ghostform vs Angelic Renewal: If I put out an AR, even without sacengine or recursion (e.g. Sun Titan) , the AR instantly eats a removal spell from my opponents.
Thanks (as always) for your efforts writing your analysis!
You make a solid point, about Despark, I might have to reconsider. Maybe, I think I value the instantspeed more than the extra 1 Mana. No good having a Vindicate in hand when opponent plays a Cloudstone Curio only when he can end the game with it there and then. It’s also very likely Generous Gift will take that slot of Vindicate in my deck.
Vindicate not being an Instant is a good point, and you're quite correct in the context of Cloudstone Curio and other similar combo pieces. But still, blowing up utility lands and the rest of the <3CC targets is really important in my meta. It may well be a meta call for a lot of people. But overall, I do definitely prefer Vindicate. Anguished Unmaking and Utter End can't target lands which means waiting on Ashen Rider or Archon of Justice to handle them.
About Force of Despair: often, I wait for a maximum amount (or quality) of creatures before playing a boardwipe.
Having to decide to boardwipe on just that turn feels a bit... suboptimal to me.
I agree on that respect. I'm not convinced on running it, but it was one of the more interesting cards for Ayli to talk about. I do like that it is Instant speed and can be done without mana open. There's a lot of decks out there that can build a board state out of nowhere, slam down Craterhoof Behemoth and swing out of nowhere. Unfortunately other than False Prophet most of our board wipes can't handle that despite doing our best to keep boards down. So, it's got some potential in that regard, I think
Silent clearing is nice, but as life is often a resource for us (Necropotence, fetchlands, etc) I’m not certain I need another dual that hurts. I don’t think I would remove a basic land or another dual for it.
I can only speak for my build, but at least personally, I sacrifice enough to Ayli or drain with Gray Merchant of Asphodel to off set a lot of the life loss I incur most games (just not enough to run something like Bolas's Citadel), so I don't think it'll be too bad
Kaya’s Ghostform vs Angelic Renewal: If I put out an AR, even without sacengine or recursion (e.g. Sun Titan) , the AR instantly eats a removal spell from my opponents.
I think this might be a meta thing, as well! Truthfully more people in my play groups should be blowing up Angelic Renewal, but I think a lot gave up because they know it'll just hit the battlefield again as soon as I get Sun Titan out there
That’s actually not unimportant: The awareness of your playgroup of which of your current permanents are really important for comboing off. This deck has such great synergies though,(see Daanzel’s list :-)) it’s quite hard pretending nothing’s going on. Because, really, most of the time, we’re 1 card away from victory. The ignorance of some opponents about this is a valuable asset.
We have 1 permanent? Better remove it before a combo is assembled. We have 2 permanents? Guys, a sweeper, NOW! We have 0 permanents? He must be keeping the pieces in hand, before dropping them together and instawinning. Better alphastrike him.
About Silent Clearing/lifetotals: more than once, I find myself at 15-20 life after just a few turns, without an opponent having damaged me.
What do you guys think of Kaya's Guile? It looks pretty sweet, and I always like when you get value on the cards you play, but I'm not overly sold on it. I'm already playing plenty of exile effects and sweepers, so the the graves are rarely a problem and I already do have Remorseful Cleric thats way easier to abuse then an instant.
What do you guys think of Kaya's Guile? It looks pretty sweet, and I always like when you get value on the cards you play, but I'm not overly sold on it. I'm already playing plenty of exile effects and sweepers, so the the graves are rarely a problem and I already do have Remorseful Cleric thats way easier to abuse then an instant.
The gain 4 life part and the make a 1/1 part are basically irrelevant in commander. What we get in almost all cases is an edict effect that exiles our opponents graves.
That doesn't look terrible on paper, but I don't think that this is really something we need. Plaguecrafter is the far far better edict that can be reanimated and if you really need grave-hate that bad, I think you should look to cheaper and more reliable options.
What do you guys think of Kaya's Guile? It looks pretty sweet, and I always like when you get value on the cards you play, but I'm not overly sold on it. I'm already playing plenty of exile effects and sweepers, so the the graves are rarely a problem and I already do have Remorseful Cleric thats way easier to abuse then an instant.
The gain 4 life part and the make a 1/1 part are basically irrelevant in commander. What we get in almost all cases is an edict effect that exiles our opponents graves.
That doesn't look terrible on paper, but I don't think that this is really something we need. Plaguecrafter is the far far better edict that can be reanimated and if you really need grave-hate that bad, I think you should look to cheaper and more reliable options.
Tarotplz hits the nail on the head. Kaya's Guile is pretty neat, but it doesn't do anything that other options can't do a lot better that are attached to bodies to reanimate.
WB Ayli, Eternal Recursion WB - GUPir and Toothy GU - WBR Mathas, Fiend SeekerWBR
Looking pretty sweet! How are you liking Treasure Keeper? I've personally passed over trying it because it's a pretty big gamble without setting up the top and I'm afraid of feel bad moments where I see cards I could cast, but don't want to quite yet and end up putting them on the bottom of my library instead of drawing them to use for later :x I see you decided to try Dawn of the Dead
Recent Discussion!
On card draw:
I used to run Promise of Power and it was pretty great for me. Ultimately it was cut while trying to lower the overall CMC over time. I did also run Disciple of Bolas back when I was still filling in holes for stuff I was waiting to put in the deck. The amount of draw power I got out of it felt a bit too situational for my taste. There were a lot of factors before I'd want to cast it, i.e. a decent sized creature on the battlefield, that I also wanted to sacrifice at a given time. In the late game I could recur it and draw a lot of cards by by that time between my other draw options and the tutors available it didn't feel too necessary. Morbid Curiosity isn't bad but not great either and suffers from the same kind of situational thing where you're waiting for a good time to use it. But I'm not saying any of these are bad by any means - this has just been my experience with all of them that lead to me not running them in my own list.
Exsanguinate vs Debt to the Deathless
I've gone over these at an earlier point in the thread, but I prefer Exsanguinate because the mana cost at which it and Debt to the Deathless meet parity is pretty high.
1WWBB = 2 life loss
3BB = 3 life loss
2WWBB = 4 life loss
4BB = 4 life loss
3WWBB = 6 life loss
5BB = 5 life loss
So, outside of using either with infinite mana combos that will kill the table regardless, you have to spend 3WWBB (7 total for it to escape parity with Exsanguinate. That takes it farther out of situations where you may want to use either of these to save you if you're drawing heat or in a pod with a lot of aggro decks. In a pod of four players, for an Exsanguinate casted at 4BB you're gaining 12 life back and need less of a colored mana investment to use for other things. Maybe a situation arises where you want to activate Vizkopa Guildmage where having the extra colored mana you used to cast Debt to the Deathless could have been important. With the extra colored mana investment and needing to cost 7 mana total before it's better than Exsanguinate, this is why I personally choose Exsanguinate
Phyrexian Altar
I'm super glad that this got reprinted and is a bit cheaper now! It's quickly bouncing back to nearly $20 again :/ I don't think I'll be adding one to the deck, myself. In my build the colorless mana from Ashnod's Altar goes a lot farther (Nim Deathmantle, sac engine loops, Corpse Dance, etc) and the 3CC slot is pretty full up to consider just adding it outright. I certainly don't blame anyone for running it, though!
Mana Acceleration
I still want to get a Mox Amber to test out in the deck. With typically playing Ayli on Turn 2 it seems like it'd be active most of the game. I certainly am never sad to see it in my Yuriko, Tiger's Shadow deck. I don't run Land Tax or Boreas Charger in my build because I run so few basic lands, and I tend to already draw more lands than I can play because of Necropotence, Phyrexian Arena and Weathered Wayfarer. I however am considering replacing Wayfarer's Bauble with Land Tax. It's not a card I've been super happy with and the price on Land Tax is much less prohibitive at the moment.
Crypt Ghast and similar effects I don't run mostly for reasons I've discussed before with y'all, or in the main post. Without Urborg it feels like a dead Creature, and I get a lot of mileage out of my utility lands in a given game where I need to use the extra abilities rather than tap them for BB. Again a card that's not bad by any means but not my preference
(Also known as Xenphire)
I know it's not the very best - when compared to Necropotence, for example, but I like to have enough carddraw and tutors in the deck. This will be replaced in a heartbeat when something better comes along, but for now...
Exsanguinate vs Debt to the Deathless
Thanks for this maths - I will be going for Exsanguinate instead of Debt to the Deathless now
Mana acceleration
Mox Amber and Mox Diamond are doing a lot of work for me, often getting out Ayli T1. Removed Mana Crypt, and happy about it! Land Tax is good! It smooths out landdrops every turn, fills up your hand, so enables eot discarding (for reanimation), and works like Ancestral Recall when you happen to have a Scroll Rack out.
Below: a pic of my actual deck - organized by land, mana-accelaeration, tutors, card draw, recursion, removal, sweepers, sacrifice-outlets, wincons, and various.
Happy midwinter!
WB Ayli, Eternal Recursion WB - GUPir and Toothy GU - WBR Mathas, Fiend SeekerWBR
(Also known as Xenphire)
WB Ayli, Eternal Recursion WB - GUPir and Toothy GU - WBR Mathas, Fiend SeekerWBR
You could make room for Serra Ascendant with Gray Merchant of Asphodel to get that 50+ life.
I've been trying sideboards with Aven Mindcensor, Eidolon of Rhetoric, Spirit of the Labyrinth, and Sadistic Hypnotist to help slow down other players who are playing cheap spells and draw power, which this deck lacks.
I swapped Razaketh, the Foulblooded for a Diabolic Intent. I remember you not including Mimic Vat because it was a "More Win Card". I feel the same with Razaketh, the Foulblooded. Ya you can cheat him out, but you only have Geier Reach Sanitarium that discards. Entomb wont work if it's in your hand though. I don't know, I might have try making him work again.
I see you're still stuck on running Sepulchral Primordial. Ever think about adding a Altar of Dementia? At least then you can make players mill for the possibility of more creatures in the yard. It's a high cast card when you already have Puppeteer Clique in the deck, way better. You'd benefit more by including Mikaeus, the Unhallowed. Grave Titan would also be an alternative, but wouldn't include it either. You could swapping Spawning Pit or Viscera Seer for the Altar of Dementia if you're still stuck on Sepulchral Primordial though.
I don't run Exsanguinate, I use a heavy re-animator package to pound and pound my opponents combo pieces away. This deck turtles. When you turtle, you should be able to combo off by exiling the board. I've been using Cavern of Souls choosing Spirits for Karmic Guide combo. Also works on the dragons.
You should also fine a spot for Phyrexian Altar, Dance of the Dead and Animate Dead (Both work well with Academy Rector) for more Sun Titan combo pieces. You could even run Oblivion Stone with Sun Titan.
I know you think Dawn of the Dead is slow, but when you're constantly re-animating stuff every turn and sacking them for life with Alyi, you're getting to 50 life pretty fast for Ayli's second ability. (Another great card for Academy Rector). Also, have you tried Demon of Dark Schemes, Phyrexian Delver, and Reanimate?
Dawn of the dead and Debtor's Knell are a bit too slow for me. They do nothing until my next turn, and draw unneeded attention. (you said it well: we 'turtle' - and try to look unthreatening Palpatine-like).
Play report from yesterday:
Once again, my Yosei proved a major griever, but, unfortunately for me, this time, from an opponent who cast it from my library (with Villainous Wealth) and locked ME out of the game (with reanimation backup). :-(
Ravnica Allegiance update:
I'm so stoked for new Teysa, I'm considering converting my list back to Teysa, Orzhov Scion (how it started many, many years ago during BlackJack's era) and adding Teysa 3.0: DeatHarmonicon FTW!
WB Ayli, Eternal Recursion WB - GUPir and Toothy GU - WBR Mathas, Fiend SeekerWBR
Counted combo's upto 4 cards (not counting Ayli). I got to
4147 (4753 if you include infinite scy).Thought I'd share ^^
-- Infinite damage --
Reveillark+Karmic Guide+Blasting Station
Reveillark+Karmic Guide+Viscera Seer+Blood Artist
Reveillark+Karmic Guide+Ashnod's Altar+Ayli, Eternal Pilgrim+Vizkopa Guildmage
Reveillark+Karmic Guide+Phyrexian Altar+Ayli, Eternal Pilgrim+Vizkopa Guildmage
Sun Titan+Angelic Renewal+Blasting Station
Sun Titan+Angelic Renewal+Viscera Seer+Blood Artist
Sun Titan+Angelic Renewal+Ashnod's Altar+Ayli, Eternal Pilgrim+Vizkopa Guildmage
Sun Titan+Angelic Renewal+Phyrexian Altar+Ayli, Eternal Pilgrim+Vizkopa Guildmage
Sun Titan+Fiend Hunter+Blasting Station
Sun Titan+Fiend Hunter+Viscera Seer+Blood Artist
Sun Titan+Fiend Hunter+Ashnod's Altar+Ayli, Eternal Pilgrim+Vizkopa Guildmage
Sun Titan+Fiend Hunter+Phyrexian Altar+Ayli, Eternal Pilgrim+Vizkopa Guildmage
Karmic Guide+Fiend Hunter+Blasting Station
Karmic Guide+Fiend Hunter+Viscera Seer+Blood Artist
Karmic Guide+Fiend Hunter+Ashnod's Altar+Ayli, Eternal Pilgrim+Vizkopa Guildmage
Karmic Guide+Fiend Hunter+Phyrexian Altar+Ayli, Eternal Pilgrim+Vizkopa Guildmage
Puppeteer Clique+Mikaeus, the Unhallowed+Blasting Station
Puppeteer Clique+Mikaeus, the Unhallowed+Viscera Seer+Blood Artist
Puppeteer Clique+Ashnod's Altar+Nim Deathmantle+Blood Artist
Puppeteer Clique+Mikaeus, the Unhallowed+Ashnod's Altar+Ayli, Eternal Pilgrim+Vizkopa Guildmage
Puppeteer Clique+Mikaeus, the Unhallowed+Phyrexian Altar+Ayli, Eternal Pilgrim+Vizkopa Guildmage
Animate Dead+Leonin Relic-Warder+Blasting Station
Animate Dead+Leonin Relic-Warder+Viscera Seer+Blood Artist
Animate Dead+Leonin Relic-Warder+Ashnod's Altar+Ayli, Eternal Pilgrim+Vizkopa Guildmage
Animate Dead+Leonin Relic-Warder+Phyrexian Altar+Ayli, Eternal Pilgrim+Vizkopa Guildmage
Necromancy+Leonin Relic-Warder+Blasting Station
Necromancy+Leonin Relic-Warder+Viscera Seer+Blood Artist
Necromancy+Leonin Relic-Warder+Ashnod's Altar+Ayli, Eternal Pilgrim+Vizkopa Guildmage
Necromancy+Leonin Relic-Warder+Phyrexian Altar+Ayli, Eternal Pilgrim+Vizkopa Guildmage
Wurmcoil Engine+Nim Deathmantle+Ashnod's Altar+Blood Artist
Knight-captain of Eos+Nim Deathmantle+Ashnod's Altar+Blood Artist
-- Infinite life --
Reveillark+Karmic Guide+Ashnod's Altar+Ayli, Eternal Pilgrim
Sun Titan+Angelic Renewal+Ashnod's Altar+Ayli, Eternal Pilgrim
Sun Titan+Fiend Hunter+Ashnod's Altar+Ayli, Eternal Pilgrim
Karmic Guide+Fiend Hunter+Ashnod's Altar+Ayli, Eternal Pilgrim
Puppeteer Clique+Mikaeus, the Unhallowed+Ashnod's Altar+Ayli, Eternal Pilgrim
Animate Dead+Leonin Relic-Warder+Ashnod's Altar+Ayli, Eternal Pilgrim
Necromancy+Leonin Relic-Warder+Ashnod's Altar+Ayli, Eternal Pilgrim
-- Infinite exile non-land permanents (& life) --
Reveillark+Karmic Guide+Phyrexian Altar+Ayli, Eternal Pilgrim
Sun Titan+Angelic Renewal+Phyrexian Altar+Ayli, Eternal Pilgrim
Sun Titan+Fiend Hunter+Phyrexian Altar+Ayli, Eternal Pilgrim
Karmic Guide+Fiend Hunter+Phyrexian Altar+Ayli, Eternal Pilgrim
Puppeteer Clique+Mikaeus, the Unhallowed+Phyrexian Altar+Ayli, Eternal Pilgrim
Animate Dead+Leonin Relic-Warder+Phyrexian Altar+Ayli, Eternal Pilgrim
Necromancy+Leonin Relic-Warder+Phyrexian Altar+Ayli, Eternal Pilgrim
-- Infinite tokens --
Wurmcoil Engine+Nim Deathmantle+Ashnod's Altar
Knight-captain of Eos+Nim Deathmantle+Ashnod's Altar
-- Infinite scry --
Reveillark+Karmic Guide+Viscera Seer
Sun Titan+Angelic Renewal+Viscera Seer
Sun Titan+Fiend Hunter+Viscera Seer
Karmic Guide+Fiend Hunter+Viscera Seer
Puppeteer Clique+Mikaeus, the Unhallowed+Viscera Seer
Animate Dead+Leonin Relic-Warder+Viscera Seer
Necromancy+Leonin Relic-Warder+Viscera Seer
Edit: forgot to add the Karmic Guide + Fiend Hunter + sac outlet..
GEzuriG
WURaffUW
WBAyliBW
GOmnathG
URMizzixRU
this... is amazingly helpful. thank you for this. i've had ayli on the backburner for a bit and i'm always back and forth on building her, or someone else to fill my b/w need. i lean really heavily toward her, despite new teysa being really fun
EDIT: I just saw Kaya’s Ghostform. Sweet. Could perhaps replace Angelic Renewal?
WB Ayli, Eternal Recursion WB - GUPir and Toothy GU - WBR Mathas, Fiend SeekerWBR
Ravnica Allegiances Set Review!
As always, I'll only be mentioning ones that are particular interest, here, rather than looking at each card in the set. Not even everything listed here is an auto-include or worth heavy consideration, but can at least be a talking point.
White
Angel of Grace - We've seen similar effects to this the last few years such as Exquisite Archangel, Stunning Reversal and Resolute Archangel. These effects all basically prevent you from losing the game. I'm truthfully not a fan of any of these effects, because if you're in a position such as this then you're probably going to lose whether the save you or not. While you could make quite a come back, sitting at 1 life is quite perilous. Out of all of these effects, Resolute Archangel is probably my favorite because per the rules, whenever your life total becomes a set number, you gain or lose any amount of life equal to the difference. At least in that case, Resoluge Archangel works with Vizkopa Guildmage or Sanguine Bond if you play it.
Forbidding Spirit - Because of the ease of reanimation a Creature and the amount of effects that look for Creature deaths and the ability to save Creatures from exile effects by sacrificing them, it's almost always better to have an effect attached to a Creature than anything else. Forbidding Spirit is a one-off Ghostly Prison effect that lasts until your next turn. Depending on how much recursion you run and how easy it is to repeatedly reanimate something, Forbidding Spirit could quite easily be better than Ghostly Prison for Ayli. In addition, each time he enters the battlefield as a new permanent, his effect stacks. So, if you don't want to board wipe or want to encourage opponents to attack at other players, you can chain reanimate him with Corpse Dance or Nim Deathmantle and stack the Ghostly Prison effect.
Smothering Tithe - There is truly very little reason not to run Smothering Tithe in Ayli. The deck becomes mana hungry, and in times where you're the archenemy and spending a lot of resources on removal, recursion for that removal and keeping the hounds at bay, Smothering Tithe can be giving you a lot of excess mana. If you've seen the Ravnica Brawl Game Knights episode on YouTube, you'll also know how dangerous this makes wheels become for your opponents to cast.
Tithe Taker - I'd truly rather run Grand Abolisher. The 1 mana is a pittance to pay past Turn 3 or 4. If you're running a tax-heavy build where you're stacking those types of taxing effects, then he could be another to add to the pile. Otherwise, I'd steer clear of considering this guy.
Black
Font of Agonies - It would be very easy to add up counters on Font of Agonies. That much is certain. The problem with Font of Agonies is that there's already so much removal available that can target more than just Creatures. You could just as easily run Attrition and have sac fodder mostly on demand, or at least as often as you would have four blood counters on Font of Agonies. There will also be times you just never draw into those cards you pay life for, which are mainly Necropotence.
Priest of Forgotten Gods - Having to have two other Creatures on the battlefield that you want to sacrifice is the biggest downside of this Priest. It's quite often that we have at least one Creature to abuse for sacrifice. The effect you get for activating the Priest is well worth it and a huge advantage for you. I have yet to test her because I'm having a very hard time justifying putting her in place of something else. I think a comparable replacement would be Mangara of Corondor if you're running her, because of all the other exile effects available to Ayli. It can also be a meta call! If Enchantments and Artifacts aren't being super abused in your format, Leonin Relic-Warder could also make sense as a cut to try Priest of Forgotten Gods, with the caveat that you need to consistently have two other Creatures you're willing to sacrifice to use her.
Multicolor
Kaya, Orzhov Usurper - Once upon a time, many people thought that the new Kaya was a joke, and that her abilities would be too hard to use. Now, in the current Standard Esper Control lists, her -5 is a win condition. Consider this: You are very often paying life or losing life for something. She has continuous, cheap graveyard hate while simultaneously gaining you life every turn. Orzhov removal is already exiling cards left and right, especially if you run Merciless Eviction or Bojuka Bog another player. You can easily finish someone off with Kaya's -5 while gaining a ton of life in the late game. Her -1 isn't too relevant, but is a bonus because it can help slow others down to your level by exiling their Mana Crypt, Sol Ring, Mana Vault and so on. She really is worth considering!
Kaya's Wrath - This is technically better than Damnation or Wrath of God in most cases, because outside of facing Ezuri, Renegade Leader the "can't be regenerated" at the end of those is very rarely relevant. Kaya's Wrath gains you some life back that you probably lost if you're looking to wrath the board. An easy include, and a lot cheaper than the other two 4CC wrath effects, too!
Teysa Karlov - She is the most stand out card in the set for our strategy. Teysa is a Panharmonicon for death triggers, with the additional ability of giving tokens vigilance and lifelink. The biggest problem with including Teysa, is that just like Panharmonicon, half of the time or more she doesn't do anything. She makes certain triggers that much more deadly, and there is no denying that. But, unless you're running a token heavy build, she loses a lot of her oomph. Out of the 30 Creatures I run in my build, 7 have effects that actually happen on death that are triggered. Is it worth it to run her for just 7 creatures, even though those effects are powerful? It's a turn and 4 mana to play something that does nothing when it enters the battlefield. I truly can't say whether to run her or not, because it really depends on your own builds. For my own, I think passing on her is not something I will regret doing.
Revival // Revenge - This is an interesting utility card. There are 8 potential targets in my build for Revival, which isn't particularly bad for it's cost. Most of them are important pieces such as Viscera Seer, Fiend Hunter, Recruiter of the Guard, Vizkopa Guildmage and so on. When you don't need that, Revenge is a giant "SCREW YOU!" to an opponent that is being hard to kill, while buffering your own life total. While I have a hard time wanting to cut something for this, I could easily replace Unburial Rites or another similar reanimation effect for it to have the Revenge half waiting to nearly finish someone off. When you consider that you can get this back with Xiahou Dun, the One-Eyed, it seems really silly to not want to run it.
Conclusion
It's not often we get the opportunity to see so many potential playables or upgrades in a set. It usually comes with these Ravnica sets because we get a set where at least a portion of it is dedicated to the Orzhov. All of the cards I mentioned here are quite playable in their own right, and there are many cards I did not go over such as the Afterlife cards that one could quite easily abuse in a build wanting to focus more on tokens.
War of the Spark is looking very interesting so far, so I'll be back soon to talk more about that, as well as potentially announce some changes to Ayli that I've been testing despite mostly focusing on fine tuning other decks. I hope everyone has been doing well, and thank everyone for the continued interest, feedback and participation in building and playing Ayli
(Also known as Xenphire)
WB Ayli, Eternal Recursion WB - GUPir and Toothy GU - WBR Mathas, Fiend SeekerWBR
Tbh I think Despark is far too specific to replace an allstar like Vindicate, but I'll be very interested in the results!
BWB/W Tokens
Pauper:
RUGAffinity
EDH:
BWAyli, Eternal Pilgrim
What became rather clear, however, is how this deck struggles against decks that can say ‘I Win’ with a sorcery or instant. Opponent resolved Selvala's Stampede, allowing him to put a few permanents into play, which happened to be some planeswalkers and a Doubling Season, ulting them, and winning on the spot. We can only hope for a U player to be present, and being able to say ‘No’. Which wasn’t the case. Do you have similar experiences? Do you have a gameplan against such situations?
WB Ayli, Eternal Recursion WB - GUPir and Toothy GU - WBR Mathas, Fiend SeekerWBR
Yeah, we have difficulty interacting with these kind of things. I guess our best shot to deal with them is either discard from the black side or tax effects from the white side, both with the goal to prevent them from casting those kind of spells entirely.
BWB/W Tokens
Pauper:
RUGAffinity
EDH:
BWAyli, Eternal Pilgrim
War of the Spark Set Review!
As always, I'll only be mentioning ones that are particular interest, here, rather than looking at each card in the set. Not even everything listed here is an auto-include or worth heavy consideration, but can at least be a talking point.
God-Eternal Oketra - What an amazingly powerful card! For 5-mana, a Double Strike, 3/6 that keeps coming back is already crazy enough. Add in her 1st triggered ability and it's just insane. I'm actually testing God-Eternal Oketra right now, and the additional board pressure has been pretty fantastic. 4/4 bodies are hard to deal with outside of board wipes, and Ayli can recover well from those. If you're running cards like Phyrexian Reclamation or Athreos, God of Passage, every creature you return to your hand threatens to come with a 4/4 vigilance Zombie in addition to whatever card you got back to cast. Absolutely stunning card worth trying!
Bolas's Citadel - I just wanted to mention it here because it's obviously one of the power house cards in the set. It unfortunately really doesn't work that well here. We're already paying a chunk of life to other effects, and many of the cards in the deck that we use for ETB/death triggers are on the higher end of converted mana costs. This card isn't exactly for us.
Command the Dreadhorde - Alternatively, there's Command the Dreadhorde which can target both Creatures AND Planeswalkers. At 6-mana it's rather expensive, but could easily piece together a winning board state from our own graveyards and others'. It's worth a look, especially when played alongside cards like Glacial Chasm or other ways to prevent taking damage for that turn.
Dreadhorde Invasion - Comparable to Bitterblossom this is not. For us, this is simply sac fodder. At the cost of 1 life each turn, it's not particularly appealing, especially because if you do want sac fodder you're better off going wide than tall.
Finalie of Eternity - This is one of my favorite cards in the set! Unfortunately it's not an Instant, but if you need to take care of an aggressive board state early in the game without spending a board wipe, this can be a really good way of doing so. The flexibility is great, even with the secondary effect of pumping 10 mana into it aside. The final part of the spell is icing on the cake, but mana that we can easily generate in the later part of the game thanks to synergies with Ashnod's Altar.
God-Eternal Bontu - The second God-Eternal we're looking at is also pretty decent. A 5/6 body with Menace is nothing to laugh at, but what I love about Bontu is she can turn mana rocks and excess lands into card advantage in the late game. She's not an autoinclude by any means because there is a decent amount of card advantage already available to us, but she certainly is worthy of consideration.
Kaya's Ghostform - One could look at this and compare it to Angelic Renewal or Gift of Immortality. The down side of this compared to Angelic Renewal is that you need a target to put it on, and can't simply cast it and have it out on the battlefield ready and waiting. There are very few Planeswalkers worth considering for Ayli, so the ability to target Planeswalkers isn't too relevant. Overall it'd be hard to justify taking anything else out of the deck to put in Kaya's Ghostform.
Liliana, Dreadhorde General - Speaking of the very few Planeswalkers that are worthy of putting in Ayli, this Liliana may well be one of them. Her static ability is very useful to us, and one of the only cards out there that doesn't specify "non-token Creature" to draw your card. Making a blocker or more sac fodder with her +1 is pretty average, but her -4 causing everyone to sacrifice two creatures is brutal for opponents while we hardly flinch. If you get her -9, it's a Cataclysm, though you should generally never assume you'll get a Planeswalker's ultimate. She is worth a try, though her 4BB mana cost has her competing with a lot of other things we want to be doing with the deck at that stage.
Liliana's Triumph - This is a pretty decent removal spell early on in the game that gets around Indestructible, Shroud and Hexproof. It's potentially worth considering at 1B and at Instant speed, but I find it really hard to see a card in the deck I'd pull for this, as targeted permanent removal is much more important.
Massacre Girl - I'll admit that this is a fun card with a really fun effect. The problem, though, is that you want to wait for her to get enough triggers to clear the board. Massacre Wurm she is not, as she provides no benefit from killing the creatures she kills. Really, if you want to kill the board, you either want to just kill it cleanly with an actual board wipe, but at least get some bonus for doing so. While a cute card, she unfortunately really doesn't do enough.
Cruel Celebrant - Here we have another version of Zulaport Cutthroat. I'm actually replacing Blood Artist in all of my decks with Cruel Celebrant for a couple reasons. Although Blood Artist triggers off of opponent's Creatures dying as well, the triggers from it and cards like it are mostly from my own sac engines running off. The second reason is that I prefer Zulaport and Celebrant due to them not targeting and hitting each opponent at the same time. No one can give themselves protection or hexproof and them be untargetable with these.
Despark - So, first, I'll give the short of my opinion on this removal card: I would never play over Utter End, Anguished Unmaking or Vindicate. Here's why: One reason is that I don't like the condition that the target must have a 4CMC or greater on Despark. It's easy to be tricked into thinking it's a better option than another spell card because it only costs WB and can hit a lot of targets in the mid/late game. But, that is still far too inconsistent for me. I'd rather have another spell that can remove Scavenging Ooze and stop my graveyard from being eaten, or exile Eternal Witness to stop recursion shenanigans. There are a lot of cases where I see myself sitting with a 2CMC card in my hand that can't hit a lot of the linchpins that lead to broken game states. I'll gladly pay 1 more for Vindicate. The largest threats aren't always 4CMC and above. Sometimes they're Cloudstone Curios, or Ashnod's Altars and other 2-3 mana sac outlets or engines that you need to kill ASAP. I want the most options I can muster, because depending on other people having good threat assessment is a liability, and the ability to surgically remove basically any target is an effect worth high redundancy. I'd still have Vindicate over this as a way to easily take out Maze of Ith, Volrath's Stronghold, Gavony Township, Gaea's Cradle, Itlimoc, Cradle of the Sun etc. Recently decks in my meta have started loading up on Inkmoth Nexus + Karn's Bastion after I suggested the combination to a friend, because Evolution Sage/Flux Channeler can allow a scary amount of Proliferate. The Ixalan flip lands are huge, and Search for Azcanta flipped makes it really hard to slow spellslinger decks down. Costing 1-2 mana less than the existing options does not make it worth it, when it excludes so many important targets.
Sorin, Vengeful Bloodlord - I don't have much to say about the newest Sorin, unfortunately. The truth is that he doesn't do enough. His static ability only applies during our own turn. If you're still playing Sorin, Grim Nemesis or trouble with life in the late game and can swing in with our big fliers, he could be worth having on the board for that. Sometimes. But his +2 is unfortunately very weak, and his -X is costly when we have so many amazing reanimation options, as it is.
Blast Zone - This card is up for debate. On one hand, Ayli is very hungry for colored mana. In almost any scenario, I'd rather have colored mana than colorless. I already run a ton of utility lands, so this would have to be put in at the cost of replacing something else. It's something to do every turn with extra mana before your turn wheels back around, though, and threatens opponents and makes them think twice about playing combo pieces or certain cards. It may well be worth trying in place of a redundant effect like Kor Haven.
Emergence Zone - Despite a certain podcast duo constantly harping about Vedalken Orrery, I have refused to run it in any of my decks. A 4-mana do-nothing card when it enters the battlefield is not my cup of tea, and when I did try to run it in my decks, I often found that it sat in my hand because I didn't want to tap out to play it, or there was something way more effective I could be doing, instead. This goes not just for Ayli, but any deck I've played it in. What I have done, however, is add Emergence Zone to every deck I play, because flashing spells out of no where in the late game can easily set up for a win on my upcoming turn. This is something I highly recommend trying, because it only takes a land slot, rather than a spell slot. What I said above about Blasting Zone and the amount of utility lands I run holds true, but the potential for blowing out opponents at flash speed from a Land slot is far too good to pass up!
(Also known as Xenphire)
Edit: forgot to mention that at the moment Vindicate is already out, and Despark (momentarily testing in its place) did prove super and versatile. Almost always the thing I NEED to exile is a permanent with CMC 4+
WB Ayli, Eternal Recursion WB - GUPir and Toothy GU - WBR Mathas, Fiend SeekerWBR
Although my feelings on Despark differ, I added a section for it above
I do very much like Generous Gift! I'm also very interested in Force of Despair and Silent Clearing
(Also known as Xenphire)
You make a solid point, about Despark, I might have to reconsider. Maybe, I think I value the instantspeed more than the extra 1 Mana. No good having a Vindicate in hand when opponent plays a Cloudstone Curio only when he can end the game with it there and then. It’s also very likely Generous Gift will take that slot of Vindicate in my deck.
About Force of Despair: often, I wait for a maximum amount (or quality) of creatures before playing a boardwipe.
Having to decide to boardwipe on just that turn feels a bit... suboptimal to me.
Silent clearing is nice, but as life is often a resource for us (Necropotence, fetchlands, etc) I’m not certain I need another dual that hurts. I don’t think I would remove a basic land or another dual for it.
Kaya’s Ghostform vs Angelic Renewal: If I put out an AR, even without sacengine or recursion (e.g. Sun Titan) , the AR instantly eats a removal spell from my opponents.
WB Ayli, Eternal Recursion WB - GUPir and Toothy GU - WBR Mathas, Fiend SeekerWBR
Vindicate not being an Instant is a good point, and you're quite correct in the context of Cloudstone Curio and other similar combo pieces. But still, blowing up utility lands and the rest of the <3CC targets is really important in my meta. It may well be a meta call for a lot of people. But overall, I do definitely prefer Vindicate. Anguished Unmaking and Utter End can't target lands which means waiting on Ashen Rider or Archon of Justice to handle them.
I agree on that respect. I'm not convinced on running it, but it was one of the more interesting cards for Ayli to talk about. I do like that it is Instant speed and can be done without mana open. There's a lot of decks out there that can build a board state out of nowhere, slam down Craterhoof Behemoth and swing out of nowhere. Unfortunately other than False Prophet most of our board wipes can't handle that despite doing our best to keep boards down. So, it's got some potential in that regard, I think
I can only speak for my build, but at least personally, I sacrifice enough to Ayli or drain with Gray Merchant of Asphodel to off set a lot of the life loss I incur most games (just not enough to run something like Bolas's Citadel), so I don't think it'll be too bad
I think this might be a meta thing, as well! Truthfully more people in my play groups should be blowing up Angelic Renewal, but I think a lot gave up because they know it'll just hit the battlefield again as soon as I get Sun Titan out there
(Also known as Xenphire)
We have 1 permanent? Better remove it before a combo is assembled. We have 2 permanents? Guys, a sweeper, NOW! We have 0 permanents? He must be keeping the pieces in hand, before dropping them together and instawinning. Better alphastrike him.
About Silent Clearing/lifetotals: more than once, I find myself at 15-20 life after just a few turns, without an opponent having damaged me.
WB Ayli, Eternal Recursion WB - GUPir and Toothy GU - WBR Mathas, Fiend SeekerWBR
The gain 4 life part and the make a 1/1 part are basically irrelevant in commander. What we get in almost all cases is an edict effect that exiles our opponents graves.
That doesn't look terrible on paper, but I don't think that this is really something we need. Plaguecrafter is the far far better edict that can be reanimated and if you really need grave-hate that bad, I think you should look to cheaper and more reliable options.
BWB/W Tokens
Pauper:
RUGAffinity
EDH:
BWAyli, Eternal Pilgrim
Tarotplz hits the nail on the head. Kaya's Guile is pretty neat, but it doesn't do anything that other options can't do a lot better that are attached to bodies to reanimate.
(Also known as Xenphire)