Time Stop, while great in theory, has been a 'sit in the hand' sorta card, and it's a lot of mana to hold up. Betrayal could very well end games or turn the tide in my favour quite nicely - it also strikes me as a 'can't get angry' sort of card in that if you're running the card you can't get mad when it's used against you.
It remains to be seen whether the Coffers suite will fit ok here. I'd feel a little more confident about it with a copy of Tolaria West, but that thing shot up in cost, so I won't see a copy until it's reprinted. The Ingot/Relic swap is an experiment more than anything. There's a chance Relic could do silly things with Paradox Engine. Worst case scenario it does exactly what Ingot does already, best case scenario it gives me some burst mana with PE, and does what Ingot does, or gives me a glut of mana if or when PE gets destroyed (when - if you're not removing it you're playing this game wrong).
As an aside, how freaking good is God-Eternal Kefnet? I swear if I can land a copy it's coming in here so quick. Narset's Reversal will be a great add here too - I love a good 'you did it to yourself' card, and this is one for sure. I'm interested in a copy of both for Dralnu.
Woop. Apologies for missing your more-recently-active thread for Dralnu! Figured I could post/continue our discussion over here for War of the Spark since you're actively updating, still!
Bolas’s Citadel I could see a place for as a storm finisher. It’s undoubtedly a strong card. I’m not sure if I’ll run a copy here myself, but I do try to stay a little shy of straight combo. Narset, partner of veils I like as a semi-leovold draw restriction. The amount of wheeling I do is not insignificant, so it’d make thing a lot more unilateral.
Liliana, Dreadhorde General I like, but I’m not sure if I like it here. The static ability will go wanting g a lot for what’s a fairly creature light build, so any value you get from her will come from her abilities. Which are strong, but for 4BB I question if it’s worth it.
Command the Dreadhorde I really like, and I’d look to fit a copy in here. Likewise with Finale of Eternity - you need to decathlon cast it to get enough value from it, but I can see that happening here fairly easily.
Deliver unto Evil doesn’t seem strong enough to me. Without a Bolas walker, and as a one time affair, it just needs to do a little more.
As for other new releases, I like Spark Double, but I’m not sure it’s better here than Clever Impersonator. Bond of Revival has the haste that Zombify and Rise from the Grave have always missed. Massacre Girl could be devastating, but I’m not sure it fits here well enough. All in all, there’s a lot of goodies from this set for Dralnu, and I think you’ve picked out most of the real gems.
Woop. Apologies for missing your more-recently-active thread for Dralnu! Figured I could post/continue our discussion over here for War of the Spark since you're actively updating, still!
I could probably do that too. I'm not regularly playing Dralnu right now. I'm never that far from some flavor of controlling UBx list. Here's my comments from the other thread:
Blast Zone is far and away my favorite EDH control card from this set, especially in Grixis subsets. Permanent answers to resolved enchantments are already in short supply, so having one that slots into the manabase is great. It's expensive, but you're already likely to be holding mana up with Dralnu and can charge it over a couple turns.
Finale of Eternity seems like it has some good synergy with Dralnu. You can cast it early while you're still stabilizing to remove a few smaller creatures, then flash it back for a game winning play late. It's a respectable enough 3-for-1 removal spell even without the overcost effect, even if it probably wouldn't make the cut as just removal.
I'm not big on Bolas's Citadel or Liliana, Dreadhorde General here. If you're on more of a combo Dralnu plan, Citadel gets a lot better. If you're playing control into a reanimation finish the life cost feels heavy unless you're supporting with a fair amount of lifegain. I typically stabilize at a fairly low life total when playing Dralnu-esque decks and it feels like it would be a dead draw. Lili just wants more creatures to take advantage of the static ability. The token production isn't worth 6 mana and I wouldn't be thrilled playing Barter in Blood at half again as much mana.
All the others are solid. The walkers in particular come down early, have an immediate effect, and then draw an attack or two away from your face. I wouldn't expect to protect them often unless they're very late game topdecks, and that's not really a problem. God-Eternal Kefnet seems like straight value as long as you're playing enough spot removal/card draw/reanimation/etc to take full advantage of the copying. It's another in the string of good control win cons we've seen over the last few years, following The Scarab God and Nezahal, Primal Tide.
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[Pr]Jaya | Estrid | A rotating cast of decks built out of my box.
Seems like we're pretty much all thinking the same things here. I've picked up a few things from the new set, and a few staples - my list is getting a big overhaul, it'll just take me a few days to collate the changes.
So, War of the Spark gave me some super good additions to Dralnu. Alongside that, I've done some heavy trading (I had a foil Teferi, Hero of Dominaria in a deck I don't play much anymore, and my LGS loved me for trading it in) too, and Dralnu is in a much better shape post weekend:
So, much like Jenn, I'd found Koko really not pulling his weight. Whenever I drew him, I was waiting for Rite to come along so I could kick it, and it's the only use I was seeing for either card. Kefnet is likely to be hugely more useful here, and Reversal and Revival both feel like good fits too. Haste on a reanimation will be fun, and Reversal is just super cool. Leyline, Tower and Search are massively superior upgrades to their predecessors, and I'm super stoked to pick them up. They should make this build a lot stronger.
I resolved a turn 4 Reanimate into Jin-Gitaxias, Core Augur, and dominated most of the game, it was pretty rough. Took me a little while to draw into any sort of win, though, and meantime Edric was slaying Meren heavily and drawing a ton from it, as Edric does. Meren stayed in the game well enough, but couldn't handle the attack, and bowed out after I cast Tendrils of Agony and Exsanguinate turn after turn. They were modest casts, but enough to put me far out in front, and keep everyone else stretched.
The game turned when Edric cast Cyclonic Rift - I responded with Narset's Reversal, and he responded with Memory Lapse. So I rebuilt a little with a plan to drop as many small rocks as I could into Dralnu, equipping with Lightning Greaves and casting Tendrils of Agony from the graveyard for around 7-8 storm count. I didn't quite have the mana and Edric buried me in extra turns with Notorious Throng and Temporal Trespass. For a little while it was close, but Rift is a hell of a card.
At any rate, God-Eternal Kefnet came out and did well enough. Having a blocker and a mostly free spell each turn is nice. I didn't get to cast anything really gross off of him, but when your hand is 36 wide you can't complain. The one addition that really stood out as a great addition though, was Narset's Reversal. It's just so versatile. At it's absolute worst a counterspell, at it's best it turns a game changing spell into your game changing spell. If I'd had it in hand with Tendrils of Agony I could've stormed off with the original, played Reversal for another storm and then recast Tendrils again later for more.
At present, fairly happy with how this ran. The only card I'm seeing that I'm reluctant to cast is Mnemonic Betrayal. It's absolutely possible its a great finisher, but to make really good use of it I need Paradox Engine or Cabal Coffers with a ton of swamps. Otherwise, it's just slightly pricier than I'd like. I'll keep an eye out for possible replacements, or maybe just give it a bit more of a chance.
Dang, Narset's Reversal popping up again as a great card. I'm definitely acquiring a copy of it now.
Sad to hear that Edric outvalued you! I think for Mnemonic Betrayal to really be at its best you need to run a heavier spot removal/mass removal package so that there are mana dorks and mana rocks that you can take advantage of in people's 'yards. I've actually moved away from it in my own Dralnu list simply because opponents' 'yards are usually filled with things I don't really need. Your exactly right that the Betrayal gets much better with Paradox Engine since you effectively can quadruple your hand size via the Betrayal, but without Engine it's fairly mediocre.
Yeah, it's just sooo conditional. There's bound to be places it'll work, but it doesn't feel like it's here. I'm a little stuck as to what it should be eplaced with - maybe a High Tide or something, I dunno. It's gotta be something that can let me go off, but not rely on anything else to earn its place.
Dang, Narset's Reversal popping up again as a great card. I'm definitely acquiring a copy of it now.
Can't recommend it enough. I could've cast it to great effect many times. My only lament was that I wanted to cast it after pretty much damn near everything.
So, I've been mulling this deck over for the last few weeks since last post. That Mnemonic Betrayal spot is doing my head in, I really don't have an ideal replacement. My current thoughts are:
Yawgmoth's Will - this one is obvious, but it's also $120 NZD. I almost took the plunge recently, but I'm not quite there yet. Turnabout - this one is a little more of a storm enabler/board lock/God-Eternal Kefnet value play that I've used before for heavy mana turns and control elements. A fella could do worse. Kagemaro, First to Suffer - this one is more of a reanimation target that could be good here. I tried it in Glissa recently, and it's a bit lackluster there. Here, I frequently have double digit hands, so there's a good chance this could clear the board very nicely. Or, reanimate, swing with, then wipe. I'd probably replace one of the reanimation targets in here with it over the Betrayal slot. Mind's Desire - there's every chance this could be nuts here, much like Tendrils of Agony does well. I'm always worried about hitting X-spells, but there's only three here, so it's not the end of the world, and it's about the friendliest storm is going to get. Force of Despair - Cool card, it could do some good control work. I have a Gishath, Sun's Avatar deck in my meta that would hate this, so it's a very real possibility. High Tide - I don't think my Island count is quite high enough to justify this, but that could be amended. Blue Sun's Zenith - it's a win con in its own right to some extent. I'm not about to run Lab Man for it, but it's good enough to scale to the game.
I think for now it's a flex spot, but I'd like to lock something in place there as a win con/control piece eventually.
So I took apart my Zedruu build the other day, and while it was a little bit of a bummer, it freed up at least one or two cards that Dralnu can use. As well as this, I found the addition of Urborg/Coffers here was a little lackluster and surplus to requirements. So with that in mind:
Pleasingly, I have a replacement for Mnemonic Betrayal in Mind's Desire. It's not perfect, in that there's a chance it will hit x spells, but Dralnu can recast them where needed, and theoretically it's a really good alternative to Paradox Engine as a win con, purely because it's nice to have more than one engine in the deck.
So, I guess it's announcement time, and none of us should be overly surprised, but http://mtgnexus.com is now live. I've made an account there, and will be moving my lists over.
My thread is active here, so feel free to follow. I won't be updating my list here any further, and once my lists are fully ported over I will be asking the mods here at salvation to lock these.
I wish all here at salvation and those who choose to stay the best of fortune into the future, and hope to see at least some of you over on Nexus in due course.
In:
Mnemonic Betrayal
Out:
Time Stop
Time Stop, while great in theory, has been a 'sit in the hand' sorta card, and it's a lot of mana to hold up. Betrayal could very well end games or turn the tide in my favour quite nicely - it also strikes me as a 'can't get angry' sort of card in that if you're running the card you can't get mad when it's used against you.
In:
Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
Cabal Coffers
Coalition Relic
Expedition Map
Out:
Swamp
Island
Submerged Boneyard
Darksteel Ingot
It remains to be seen whether the Coffers suite will fit ok here. I'd feel a little more confident about it with a copy of Tolaria West, but that thing shot up in cost, so I won't see a copy until it's reprinted. The Ingot/Relic swap is an experiment more than anything. There's a chance Relic could do silly things with Paradox Engine. Worst case scenario it does exactly what Ingot does already, best case scenario it gives me some burst mana with PE, and does what Ingot does, or gives me a glut of mana if or when PE gets destroyed (when - if you're not removing it you're playing this game wrong).
As an aside, how freaking good is God-Eternal Kefnet? I swear if I can land a copy it's coming in here so quick. Narset's Reversal will be a great add here too - I love a good 'you did it to yourself' card, and this is one for sure. I'm interested in a copy of both for Dralnu.
I tend to agree with your assessments on the cards mentioned. It's going to be interesting finding a spot for Command the Dreadhorde and Finale of Eternity.
(Also known as Xenphire)
1 Phyrexian Tower
2 Narset's Reversal
2 Search for Azcanta
4 Leyline of Anticipation
4 God-Eternal Kefnet
5 Bond of Revival
1 Swamp
3 Unfulfilled Desires
4 Rewind
4 Rite of Replication
6 Deadly Tempest
6 Kokusho, the Evening Star
So, much like Jenn, I'd found Koko really not pulling his weight. Whenever I drew him, I was waiting for Rite to come along so I could kick it, and it's the only use I was seeing for either card. Kefnet is likely to be hugely more useful here, and Reversal and Revival both feel like good fits too. Haste on a reanimation will be fun, and Reversal is just super cool. Leyline, Tower and Search are massively superior upgrades to their predecessors, and I'm super stoked to pick them up. They should make this build a lot stronger.
I resolved a turn 4 Reanimate into Jin-Gitaxias, Core Augur, and dominated most of the game, it was pretty rough. Took me a little while to draw into any sort of win, though, and meantime Edric was slaying Meren heavily and drawing a ton from it, as Edric does. Meren stayed in the game well enough, but couldn't handle the attack, and bowed out after I cast Tendrils of Agony and Exsanguinate turn after turn. They were modest casts, but enough to put me far out in front, and keep everyone else stretched.
The game turned when Edric cast Cyclonic Rift - I responded with Narset's Reversal, and he responded with Memory Lapse. So I rebuilt a little with a plan to drop as many small rocks as I could into Dralnu, equipping with Lightning Greaves and casting Tendrils of Agony from the graveyard for around 7-8 storm count. I didn't quite have the mana and Edric buried me in extra turns with Notorious Throng and Temporal Trespass. For a little while it was close, but Rift is a hell of a card.
At any rate, God-Eternal Kefnet came out and did well enough. Having a blocker and a mostly free spell each turn is nice. I didn't get to cast anything really gross off of him, but when your hand is 36 wide you can't complain. The one addition that really stood out as a great addition though, was Narset's Reversal. It's just so versatile. At it's absolute worst a counterspell, at it's best it turns a game changing spell into your game changing spell. If I'd had it in hand with Tendrils of Agony I could've stormed off with the original, played Reversal for another storm and then recast Tendrils again later for more.
At present, fairly happy with how this ran. The only card I'm seeing that I'm reluctant to cast is Mnemonic Betrayal. It's absolutely possible its a great finisher, but to make really good use of it I need Paradox Engine or Cabal Coffers with a ton of swamps. Otherwise, it's just slightly pricier than I'd like. I'll keep an eye out for possible replacements, or maybe just give it a bit more of a chance.
Sad to hear that Edric outvalued you! I think for Mnemonic Betrayal to really be at its best you need to run a heavier spot removal/mass removal package so that there are mana dorks and mana rocks that you can take advantage of in people's 'yards. I've actually moved away from it in my own Dralnu list simply because opponents' 'yards are usually filled with things I don't really need. Your exactly right that the Betrayal gets much better with Paradox Engine since you effectively can quadruple your hand size via the Betrayal, but without Engine it's fairly mediocre.
UB Dralnu, Lich Lord
RBW [Primer]-Kaalia of the Vast
BUG [Primer]-Tasigur, the Golden Fang
GWU [Primer]-Arcades, the Strategist
WUB Primer-Aminatou, the Fateshifter
UBR Nicol Bolas, the Ravager
Can't recommend it enough. I could've cast it to great effect many times. My only lament was that I wanted to cast it after pretty much damn near everything.
Yawgmoth's Will - this one is obvious, but it's also $120 NZD. I almost took the plunge recently, but I'm not quite there yet.
Turnabout - this one is a little more of a storm enabler/board lock/God-Eternal Kefnet value play that I've used before for heavy mana turns and control elements. A fella could do worse.
Kagemaro, First to Suffer - this one is more of a reanimation target that could be good here. I tried it in Glissa recently, and it's a bit lackluster there. Here, I frequently have double digit hands, so there's a good chance this could clear the board very nicely. Or, reanimate, swing with, then wipe. I'd probably replace one of the reanimation targets in here with it over the Betrayal slot.
Mind's Desire - there's every chance this could be nuts here, much like Tendrils of Agony does well. I'm always worried about hitting X-spells, but there's only three here, so it's not the end of the world, and it's about the friendliest storm is going to get.
Force of Despair - Cool card, it could do some good control work. I have a Gishath, Sun's Avatar deck in my meta that would hate this, so it's a very real possibility.
High Tide - I don't think my Island count is quite high enough to justify this, but that could be amended.
Blue Sun's Zenith - it's a win con in its own right to some extent. I'm not about to run Lab Man for it, but it's good enough to scale to the game.
I think for now it's a flex spot, but I'd like to lock something in place there as a win con/control piece eventually.
In:
High Tide
Mind's Desire
2 Island
Out:
Mnemonic Betrayal
Expedition Map
Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
Cabal Coffers
Pleasingly, I have a replacement for Mnemonic Betrayal in Mind's Desire. It's not perfect, in that there's a chance it will hit x spells, but Dralnu can recast them where needed, and theoretically it's a really good alternative to Paradox Engine as a win con, purely because it's nice to have more than one engine in the deck.
My thread is active here, so feel free to follow. I won't be updating my list here any further, and once my lists are fully ported over I will be asking the mods here at salvation to lock these.
I wish all here at salvation and those who choose to stay the best of fortune into the future, and hope to see at least some of you over on Nexus in due course.