MTG Salvation

My question with Angel of Jubilation is more towards the end of..... what if your opponents are not playing a sacrifice based deck? It seems like a somewhat narrow archetype to have a hatebear for in commander in a mono white deck.

What if, instead of trying to stop someone from setting up a grave pact effect, you had an answer. Said answer could be used to answer something else as well. You could have a wrath like say Cleansing Nova even.

I just think its valid to question having something that feels like incredibly narrow hate where you need to proactively stop them from doing it when if they play a grave pact, you already lost your entire board so playing this angel after that seems not as impressive and incredibly narrow as well if you ask me.

I do get what you're saying. Ideally I think the swap is Austere Command for Angel of Jubilation. I need a copy in here at some point, otherwise it could be Crush Contraband or Cleansing Nova.

Minor change:
+ Thespian's Stage
- Isolated Watchtower

Yeah, watchtower was really pretty lame. With a slightly better design it could've been more useful. But shutting off the entire scry ability unless you're behind made it a terrible choice. Stage can copy Emeria, the Sky Ruin or a plains to turn on the aforementioned, or just generally copy whatever cool stuff I'm playing against. Should hold it's weight fine.

Quote from toctheyounger77 »

Minor change:
+ Thespian's Stage
- Isolated Watchtower

Yeah, watchtower was really pretty lame. With a slightly better design it could've been more useful. But shutting off the entire scry ability unless you're behind made it a terrible choice. Stage can copy Emeria, the Sky Ruin or a plains to turn on the aforementioned, or just generally copy whatever cool stuff I'm playing against. Should hold it's weight fine.

Yea, I actually often end up having more lands than my opponents when I play my bruna deck. If you see a lot of dedicated green ramp decks I think the watchtower could be good but I just don't see that enough myself to justify it. This deck wants to keep hitting its land drops and I designed mine to do that for me.

I find the same. I guess it has its places, and it’s a bit strange to think that mono white isn’t one of them, but right now it just doesn’t pull it’s weight and I’d rather some land copying shenanigans.

Some changes since RNA release:

In:
Dawn of Hope
Smothering Tithe
Crush Contraband
Cleansing Nova
Batterskull

Out:
Eidolon of Rhetoric
Angel of Jubilation
Sublime Archangel
Null Brooch
Vengeful Dreams

The adds I'm pretty happy with. Tithe and Hope should be great, and the removal will do fine too. The removals, mostly happy too. Sublime I was using to help one-shot with Bruna. It was alright, put in some work, but wasn't amazing. As previously mentioned by ISB, Jubilation was only intermittently relevant. Eidolon has been a nice control tool, but I don't really need to slow anything down anymore. At this point, the deck ramps along pretty well with other colours generally considered more powerful, so I'm happy there. The Brooch I hadn't actually had a chance to playtest, so I honestly don't know whether I'll miss it or not. Dreams saved my ass a couple times, so I was hesitant to remove it. Batterskull is nonetheless pretty devastating, so I'm happy to add it.

Making a couple of chops and changes this weekend with an LGS visit (emptying the trade folder for these):
In:
Lyra Dawnbringer
Resplendent Angel

Out:
Restoration Angel
Mentor of the Meek

These were easy chops, and they should be definite upgrades here. I've also updated and prettied up the first post in this thread as it was woefully inaccurate in portraying the list as it currently stands.

Looks like its shaping up nicely. If you get any testing in for Smothering Tithe I would love to hear some feedback. I picked up a copy myself but I haven't really pulled the trigger anywhere for it yet.

Yeah, it's an interesting card. I was tossing up either this deck, or my Esper Zombies with Varina, Lich Queen, which struggles with colour fixing from time to time.

I think at the moment being a new release it's kind of a 'kill on sight' card in that people see it like a Rhystic Study 'obscene value for nothing' card. It kind of is, but the hype is probably a bit overblown. I've managed to land it once, and it sort of needs to survive a turn cycle to get to the point of generating value - barring any excessive draw scenarios, anyway. The one time I cast it I obviously triggered someone because it caught removal after the first treasure token. It didn't matter so much that game as I was doing well for ramp anyway, so maybe that played a part.

Made one more cut over the weekend:
Adarkar Valkyrie leaves for Divine Reckoning

Not a perfect replacement, but more redundancy in sweepers is not a bad thing, and Bruna recovers well from them, so until I track down a Titan, Thune or Baneslayer I'm a little heavier on board clearing.

Little bit of feedback on Smothering Tithe. It's pretty nuts. I had a short game the other day where I had a T1 Sol Ring, T2 Smothering Tithe. End of T3 I was easily in double digits for mana production. Seems really solid because 2 is somewhat unreasonable to pay for every draw - especially at the start of your turn. Game didn't end well - someone threw a sulk because my deck wasn't casual enough (apparently Thalia, Heretic Cathar is a stax piece), so I just left them to it - the price of playing randos online. Nonetheless, the silver lining was confirmation that Tithe is pretty crazy value.

Quote from toctheyounger77 »

Little bit of feedback on Smothering Tithe. It's pretty nuts. I had a short game the other day where I had a T1 Sol Ring, T2 Smothering Tithe. End of T3 I was easily in double digits for mana production. Seems really solid because 2 is somewhat unreasonable to pay for every draw - especially at the start of your turn. Game didn't end well - someone threw a sulk because my deck wasn't casual enough (apparently Thalia, Heretic Cathar is a stax piece), so I just left them to it - the price of playing randos online. Nonetheless, the silver lining was confirmation that Tithe is pretty crazy value.

Yea..... but its also the kind of card that is going to have wildly different gameplay based on when you draw it. I play Dark Confidant in my vampire deck as an example and if I curve him in, yea he is totally nuts but if I topdeck him on turn 8 I question what the hell I am doing with my life.

Quote from ISBPathfinder »

Quote from toctheyounger77 »

Little bit of feedback on Smothering Tithe. It's pretty nuts. I had a short game the other day where I had a T1 Sol Ring, T2 Smothering Tithe. End of T3 I was easily in double digits for mana production. Seems really solid because 2 is somewhat unreasonable to pay for every draw - especially at the start of your turn. Game didn't end well - someone threw a sulk because my deck wasn't casual enough (apparently Thalia, Heretic Cathar is a stax piece), so I just left them to it - the price of playing randos online. Nonetheless, the silver lining was confirmation that Tithe is pretty crazy value.

Yea..... but its also the kind of card that is going to have wildly different gameplay based on when you draw it. I play Dark Confidant in my vampire deck as an example and if I curve him in, yea he is totally nuts but if I topdeck him on turn 8 I question what the hell I am doing with my life.

Ha, yeah I had the same thought. Actually, if I'd stayed in the game I'd have run out of things to cast with all that mana (I did have Dawn of Hope in play, so there's that). I'm going to continue to test it - I now know it's good at it's best, I now need to know how wildly it varies and how good it is at it's worst.

Quote from toctheyounger77 »

Ha, yeah I had the same thought. Actually, if I'd stayed in the game I'd have run out of things to cast with all that mana (I did have Dawn of Hope in play, so there's that). I'm going to continue to test it - I now know it's good at it's best, I now need to know how wildly it varies and how good it is at it's worst.

Yea I agree. Having more lifegain angels / humans in the deck does make Dawn better but I have made it work ok even when I start spinning my wheels in the mid to late.

This looks like an interesting build of mono white. While I don't play this particular build, I do have a mono white control deck (in paper) built. My general is Mageta the Lion and it's a reanimator/wrath tribal deck. I run a lot of the same tricks while having a wrath/discard outlet in the command zone. One of my biggest issues has always been card draw. I found this old gem that might be useful for you: book of rass. The six mana investment up front is a bit steep, but it sure does draw a lot of cards and mono white is one of the better colors for greed style effects.

Quote from weltkrieg »

This looks like an interesting build of mono white. While I don't play this particular build, I do have a mono white control deck (in paper) built. My general is Mageta the Lion and it's a reanimator/wrath tribal deck. I run a lot of the same tricks while having a wrath/discard outlet in the command zone. One of my biggest issues has always been card draw. I found this old gem that might be useful for you: book of rass. The six mana investment up front is a bit steep, but it sure does draw a lot of cards and mono white is one of the better colors for greed style effects.

Interesting choice for a commander! I can see how the Lion would be a decent choice; like a mono white Child of Alara. This deck definitely has the same issues with draw; it’s one of the first things I look for in my starting hand. Endless Atlas has been really solid early draw that I’ve been super glad to add.

Book of Rass...I dunno, it’s a heavy cost, paying 6 then 2 for each card plus life loss. I can see how it’d do good work, but I’m slightly hesitant. I have been tossing up adding Well of Lost Dreams, although it’s probabky a better fit in ISB’s build than mine right now.

I was thinking about that too when I first grabbed it, but unlike yourself, I have a wrath in the command zone. I usually have the time to make book of rass and mind's eye productive choices for hand refills. Additionally, I am in white. If I can't figure out a steady source of lifegain, then I probably shouldn't be playing this color!

Endless Atlas is a good one. I might have to get more. It's currently in my benben deck.

I could give it a go, definitely. I don’t quite have a super steady stream of lifegain in the deck, so it could be a little suicidal to go all in on it, but it could do good work too. The only other cards I’m interested in adding at present literally all have lifelink too, so there’s that.

Atlas is definitely worth picking up for Mageta. It’s been a great addition here.

A small change over the weekend - I took Ghave, Guru of Spores apart, and this yielded Sun Titan up for grabs. So, Mangara of Corondor leaves, as I really don't have enough ways to abuse her thoroughly.

That is a shame. Mangara is a busted little creature when you get a sacrifice engine going. She does a lot of work in my Archangel Avacyn stack control list.

Yeah, I know. She's nuts. I just don't have any other ETB/Blink here, nor ways to abuse her anymore.

Incidentally, I purchased another endless atlass for my mono white list. It has been an insane early draw. I added resolute archangel as one of two nasty lifegain sources in the deck (the other being ancestor's chosen) and I had a 6 man table a bit salty at the mono white decks resilience and staying power (and their lack of non-land permanents....). I had a setup where I had an active emeria and an active reya dawnbringer at the same time. I had the reya burned out followed by another player's armageddon while I had a smothering tithe out....They didn't think that one through. Two turns later I topdecked crucible of worlds for the scoop.

Damn, that sounds hilarious! I've had similar scenarios here, the deck just won't die. It gets a lot of remarks, and sees a lot of hair torn out.

Endless Atlas is great. It's an early mana sink for higher curve decks like this one, and great early advantage.

Actually, I have had enough times where the deck draw significant lands that I am considering ghirapur orrery. Any thoughts? I understand that it is a bad idea to help your opponents out, but with crucible (and many ways to get it back), land tax, etc. it seems as if it might help me more. The draw 3 will likely never matter and I do run both cataclysm and magus of the balance to offset any disadvantage.

It depends. I think there's a good chance it could do good things for you, moreso than your opponents. I don't often find myself topdecking, so not sure that second clause would really help, but the second land drop per turn could be tasty.

Well, the difference between my list and yours is the commander. My commander has the "discard two cards" aspect to consider, which is one of the reasons I do run all of the taxing effects and card draw that I do. it is also the reason I run crucible of worlds since the cards I pitch most (outside of reanimatable creatures) is land. That, and for some strange reason my commander tends to draw a lot of hate.... Maybe I should pick up a bruna for it as well. It seems like it is doing great things as your commander.