Uncage the menagerie seems difficult to use efficiently. Your best search much of the time is probably going to be cmc 3 at 3 of them. Before you add it in, you need to question what precisely does it find that something more modal like primal command wouldn't do better? Other than that, I am sorry to see you were having trouble against some of the decks (other than progenitus). I mean, to be fair, you're playing mono green control. If control requires setting them back a few permanents while you race ahead, so be it. It is how green controls, after all!
Of course, if its your wife, you can always let her win I guess? How has the deck been doing otherwise? Yeva is still my favorite deck.
Uncage the menagerie seems difficult to use efficiently. Your best search much of the time is probably going to be cmc 3 at 3 of them. Before you add it in, you need to question what precisely does it find that something more modal like primal command wouldn't do better?
This is it, really. I question its efficiency. I've heard strong reports, but there's enough pseudo-tutor here that it's not a shoe-in.
Other than that, I am sorry to see you were having trouble against some of the decks (other than progenitus). I mean, to be fair, you're playing mono green control. If control requires setting them back a few permanents while you race ahead, so be it. It is how green controls, after all!
I'm not too worried, really. I had a couple bad games, but once Nissa flips, I'm strongly in the game and hard to put down. It's just getting over the hump that's crucial.
I mean, to be fair, you're playing mono green control. If control requires setting them back a few permanents while you race ahead, so be it. It is how green controls, after all!
Of course, if its your wife, you can always let her win I guess? How has the deck been doing otherwise? Yeva is still my favorite deck.
Yeah it's a weird area. She's fairly specific as to what she likes and doesn't like, so maybe land destruction is pushing it a bit too far. To be fair, this deck is one of my strongest, and her Progenitus is 75% tops. You have to be prepared that no one wants to see that hydra hit the board though, so I tried to talk her through it. I think it'll just take setting some ground rules for whats acceptable and what leaves bad feelings.
Otherwise though, the deck is great - it's a lot of fun, has some really strong plays and synergy for days. I'm kind of at the point now where I don't know what to keep or cut to improve, though feedback is always appreciated.
The decklist on page 1 does not seem to be actual, so it's a little hard to offer additional advice. Having said that, see if you have any creatures left in your deck who's only purpose is to beat face - they can probably be cut. Then see wether you can add some larger reset buttons like The Great Aurora and Bane of Progress. They hit your stuff too, but obviously you only play them when the outcome favors you or when you are behind. I also like Reverent Silence, as it's free (6 life is negligible in commander).
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The decklist on page 1 does not seem to be actual, so it's a little hard to offer additional advice. Having said that, see if you have any creatures left in your deck who's only purpose is to beat face - they can probably be cut. Then see wether you can add some larger reset buttons like The Great Aurora and Bane of Progress. They hit your stuff too, but obviously you only play them when the outcome favors you or when you are behind. I also like Reverent Silence, as it's free (6 life is negligible in commander).
I'm not sure what you mean by 'actual'. The list on page 1 is definitely the latest iteration.
You have a point though, although there really aren't many simple beaters in the deck anymore. The only one I can think of is Wolfir Silverheart, maybe Pathbreaker Ibex. I'm hesitant to lose the goat, though, it's very strong in combat.
My Yeva list had a problem of too much utility and not enough ways to actually finish the game. My solution was the goat, and a few others besides like multani,maro sorcerer. I think keeping the goat is the bare minimum, and maybe another big guy or two. Wolfir silverheart isn't bad, but could be any number of other creatures as well. What makes it an attractive slot for you?
My Yeva list had a problem of too much utility and not enough ways to actually finish the game. My solution was the goat, and a few others besides like multani,maro sorcerer. I think keeping the goat is the bare minimum, and maybe another big guy or two. Wolfir silverheart isn't bad, but could be any number of other creatures as well. What makes it an attractive slot for you?
I guess it's quite often people forget its on the field and that it applies to other creatures. It's good value meat. And it plays really nicely with Pathbreaker Ibex, making sure the goat counts. That being said, I'm not averse to switching it out, I just don't have any preferential cards to swap it out for. Otherwise, I'm really struggling to see where there's fat to trim, all of the other cards here are earning their spots for the most part.
I guess it's quite often people forget its on the field and that it applies to other creatures. It's good value meat. And it plays really nicely with Pathbreaker Ibex, making sure the goat counts. That being said, I'm not averse to switching it out, I just don't have any preferential cards to swap it out for.
I've thought a little more about this in the last few days. Simply as a thought experiment to mull over what I think would make a good replacement for Wolfir Silverheart. Here's what I've got: Tilling Treefolk - it's not a shoe in, but it is a maybe. Deadwood Treefolk - it's no Eternal Witness, but it's good when the board is wiped. Architect of the Untamed - The tokens are big, but the energy required to make them is a lot. Bane of Progress - It gets big and alters the board state drastically. I'm hesitant though, simply because some of the artifacts and enchantments I run are really clutch. Champion of Lambholt - She'll get big quick here. And she provides her own win con. I think I could see this being viable, despite it not doing much else other than turning sideways. The one thing it does though, it does really well.
I had considered Lotus Cobra here too, but I feel like this deck doesn't always need big mana at sorcery speed, a lot of the time I'm holding it up for later use, which makes this a vanilla snake. Selvala, Heart of the Wilds - obviously she's stupidly good. I'd love a copy. But she's also crazy expensive. So probably not. Regal Behemoth - Big beater that draws extra cards and gives extra mana. Plus, he has trample. It's a possiblity.
These are as much for my consideration and future rumination as anything else, but if you do have an opinion, feel free to fire it away.
I agree - they both stand out as strong. Regal Behemoth seems winmore at first glance, so I wonder if its worth it. I don't have a ton of experience with monarch. I've seen people misplay and attack when they shouldn't, so it could be interesting. Bane of Progress...as much as it sets me back too, I have recursion. And sweeping the board with it leaves an enormous creature, almost guaranteed.
This is really only considering replacing like with like (creature with creature), which isn't a given. That capital OF makes me think you might have a better suggestion, weltkrieg.
Without knowing more about your meta, I can't say. That said, that particular 'OF' is because I made a typo.
Ah, I see. My bad.
I'm definitely not tied to replacing Silverheart with another creature. Two of the biggest things this deck struggles with is problematic emblems (there's an atraxa superfriends deck that Nissa struggles with), and early game stalls. Essentially, I could feasibly swap out for a mana dork like Sakura-Tribe Elder or Ondu Giant, or a big epic board-changing spell like The Great Aurora. Flavourfully, I'm sorely tempted by TGA - I'm just not sure if it's something that would help this deck or not.
I cannot see how the great aurora would help you one bit. I think I would personally rather see wave of vitriol to epically screw over opponents stuff if needed.
After you have established control, how long does it take you to finish the game?
I cannot see how the great aurora would help you one bit. I think I would personally rather see wave of vitriol to epically screw over opponents stuff if needed.
Well, obviously you don't cast it if you don't get far enough ahead, but it is a good card that gets overlooked a lot. If planeswalkers are being a pain in the patoot, then maybe woodfall primus or mold shambler if you aren't already running them. The ability to recur them spells doom for planeswalkers. Of course, there are other options too.
I like WoV as a card, and it's not without synergy here anyway. There's enough ways to brings lands back, benefit from them being destroyed, and recur other permanents that it doesn't completely hose me. Plus it hits landfall for Rampaging Baloths, so it isn't without upside.
I'd never considered Mold Shambler, but it actually isn't half bad if you have the mana to sink. Woodfall Primus is obviously strong, but either one could do.
Without knowing more about your meta, I can't say. That said, that particular 'OF' is because I made a typo.
Ah, I see. My bad.
I'm definitely not tied to replacing Silverheart with another creature. Two of the biggest things this deck struggles with is problematic emblems (there's an atraxa superfriends deck that Nissa struggles with), and early game stalls. Essentially, I could feasibly swap out for a mana dork like Sakura-Tribe Elder or Ondu Giant, or a big epic board-changing spell like The Great Aurora. Flavourfully, I'm sorely tempted by TGA - I'm just not sure if it's something that would help this deck or not.
I know it's kind of anti-synergy with your commander, but The Immortal Sun could very well help you out here. It's the perfect anti walker tech and it gives you a card each turn (so you don't lose your commander's most essential function) next to it's other abilities.
Also fits the deck's theme perfectly, as no one will expect it if you have a pw commander
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It is a strong card, and I'd love a couple of copies - I have a Bruna deck that definitely wants one. Given its current price, I'll probably wait till it rotates out or I'm more flush before picking any up, but it's a solid option. It's easy enough to take in and out of play here with Cloudstone Curio, Terastodon, Reclamation Sage and so forth, so it could be worth a go.
Well, cloudstone curiou won't return the immortal sun, but it will work with your other permanents just fine. I do like it, but I don't know if it does what you want. However, I think a better solution would be brutalizer exarch. I know you had it originally in the list, but after looking at it again, i realize it probably solves planeswalkers about as well as mold shambler (better, if they are a bunch of graveyard recurring fools) at literally the same amount of mana spent, or less if it comes in off of wild pair. If you don't need to pop a walker, then it fetches a creature to the top of your library instead to be drawn by your commander. Indeed, since it is a green creature, there are innumerable ways to go fetch it.
Well, cloudstone curiou won't return the immortal sun, but it will work with your other permanents just fine. I do like it, but I don't know if it does what you want. However, I think a better solution would be brutalizer exarch. I know you had it originally in the list, but after looking at it again, i realize it probably solves planeswalkers about as well as mold shambler (better, if they are a bunch of graveyard recurring fools) at literally the same amount of mana spent, or less if it comes in off of wild pair. If you don't need to pop a walker, then it fetches a creature to the top of your library instead to be drawn by your commander. Indeed, since it is a green creature, there are innumerable ways to go fetch it.
Ah yes. Read the card, lol. I agree, it's a strong card, I'm not entirely sure it has a place here though. It's a shoe in for Bruna, but I'll wait and see here.
I do run Brutalizer Exarch here, and I'd done the same; I hadn't really clicked it would sort walkers out. It's a strong card, and I could probably see adding either Mold Shambler or Woodfall Primus, depending on WP's availability and price (so probably shambler).
I'm thinking harder about Wave of Vitriol too - it's a ton better than Scour From Existence here and fits largely the same role, so I might switch out and playtest it.
These two don't fit EXACTLY the same roles, but there's some crossover. Wave can hit me just as tough as opponents, but there's a couple of things that make it more playable:
- the land drops for flipping Nissa, landfall for Rampaging Baloths and Tireless Tracker, and land death for Titania, Protector of Argoth.
- the recursionIhaveinthe deck helps to negate the primary effects of the card.
- It's less reactionary than Scour, and more proactive. What I mean is that it drastically changes the board state and I can take advantage of that easily in a few different ways. By comparison Scour removes a single problematic permanent at a high cost, which a lot of the time won't be particularly advantageous.
This is still definitely a playtest, Wave may not stay if it doesn't work. But it's interesting enough to try it out.
Good. Let us know how it plays out! I think you will like it. While it can be inconvenient for a green deck, wave of vitriol is usually a beating for opponents who are greedy with mana rocks and non basics.
Good. Let us know how it plays out! I think you will like it. While it can be inconvenient for a green deck, wave of vitriol is usually a beating for opponents who are greedy with mana rocks and non basics.
That's how I thought of it - it's not ideal, but I can recover from it better than most, in any of the ways it might be of detriment.
In other news, I'm keeping a close eye on Dominaria spoilers - I haven't seen anything that Nissa desperately needs, although Multani, Yavimaya's Avatar could be the beater that replaces Wolfir Silverheart. He plays nicely with Titania and the landfall fellows, and doubles as flying protection. Helm of the Host could be fun too, but it feels a little win more. There are a multitude of decks it could be good in, and this deck doesn't need it to be strong in combat.
Strict upgrade, to me. Multani should be a beast. He makes Pathbreaker Ibex look nuts, has reach, plays nicely with the land-sac and reanimation theme, should be really decent. The Stage I'm less certain about. The key lands I want to copy are most likely to be legendary, so this may end up somewhere else. Time will tell if it has value here.
Of course, if its your wife, you can always let her win I guess? How has the deck been doing otherwise? Yeva is still my favorite deck.
Credit to DolZero for this awesome sig!
This is it, really. I question its efficiency. I've heard strong reports, but there's enough pseudo-tutor here that it's not a shoe-in.
I'm not too worried, really. I had a couple bad games, but once Nissa flips, I'm strongly in the game and hard to put down. It's just getting over the hump that's crucial.
Yeah it's a weird area. She's fairly specific as to what she likes and doesn't like, so maybe land destruction is pushing it a bit too far. To be fair, this deck is one of my strongest, and her Progenitus is 75% tops. You have to be prepared that no one wants to see that hydra hit the board though, so I tried to talk her through it. I think it'll just take setting some ground rules for whats acceptable and what leaves bad feelings.
Otherwise though, the deck is great - it's a lot of fun, has some really strong plays and synergy for days. I'm kind of at the point now where I don't know what to keep or cut to improve, though feedback is always appreciated.
If my post has no tags, then i posted from my phone.
I'm not sure what you mean by 'actual'. The list on page 1 is definitely the latest iteration.
You have a point though, although there really aren't many simple beaters in the deck anymore. The only one I can think of is Wolfir Silverheart, maybe Pathbreaker Ibex. I'm hesitant to lose the goat, though, it's very strong in combat.
I have considered The Great Aurora in the past, and Wave of Vitriol too. I guess it's hard to see how they get me ahead.
Credit to DolZero for this awesome sig!
I guess it's quite often people forget its on the field and that it applies to other creatures. It's good value meat. And it plays really nicely with Pathbreaker Ibex, making sure the goat counts. That being said, I'm not averse to switching it out, I just don't have any preferential cards to swap it out for. Otherwise, I'm really struggling to see where there's fat to trim, all of the other cards here are earning their spots for the most part.
I've thought a little more about this in the last few days. Simply as a thought experiment to mull over what I think would make a good replacement for Wolfir Silverheart. Here's what I've got:
Tilling Treefolk - it's not a shoe in, but it is a maybe.
Deadwood Treefolk - it's no Eternal Witness, but it's good when the board is wiped.
Architect of the Untamed - The tokens are big, but the energy required to make them is a lot.
Bane of Progress - It gets big and alters the board state drastically. I'm hesitant though, simply because some of the artifacts and enchantments I run are really clutch.
Champion of Lambholt - She'll get big quick here. And she provides her own win con. I think I could see this being viable, despite it not doing much else other than turning sideways. The one thing it does though, it does really well.
I had considered Lotus Cobra here too, but I feel like this deck doesn't always need big mana at sorcery speed, a lot of the time I'm holding it up for later use, which makes this a vanilla snake.
Selvala, Heart of the Wilds - obviously she's stupidly good. I'd love a copy. But she's also crazy expensive. So probably not.
Regal Behemoth - Big beater that draws extra cards and gives extra mana. Plus, he has trample. It's a possiblity.
These are as much for my consideration and future rumination as anything else, but if you do have an opinion, feel free to fire it away.
Credit to DolZero for this awesome sig!
I agree - they both stand out as strong. Regal Behemoth seems winmore at first glance, so I wonder if its worth it. I don't have a ton of experience with monarch. I've seen people misplay and attack when they shouldn't, so it could be interesting. Bane of Progress...as much as it sets me back too, I have recursion. And sweeping the board with it leaves an enormous creature, almost guaranteed.
This is really only considering replacing like with like (creature with creature), which isn't a given. That capital OF makes me think you might have a better suggestion, weltkrieg.
Credit to DolZero for this awesome sig!
Ah, I see. My bad.
I'm definitely not tied to replacing Silverheart with another creature. Two of the biggest things this deck struggles with is problematic emblems (there's an atraxa superfriends deck that Nissa struggles with), and early game stalls. Essentially, I could feasibly swap out for a mana dork like Sakura-Tribe Elder or Ondu Giant, or a big epic board-changing spell like The Great Aurora. Flavourfully, I'm sorely tempted by TGA - I'm just not sure if it's something that would help this deck or not.
After you have established control, how long does it take you to finish the game?
Credit to DolZero for this awesome sig!
The problem I have is that Wave of Vitriol screws me too - Panharmonicon, Mirage Mirror, Cloudstone Curio, Abundance, Wild Pair, Cream of the Crop...there's some pretty crucial pieces I lose. I've considered it before, it just seems a tad suicidal in a lot of cases.
Usually, all I need is one or two good turns.
Credit to DolZero for this awesome sig!
I'd never considered Mold Shambler, but it actually isn't half bad if you have the mana to sink. Woodfall Primus is obviously strong, but either one could do.
I know it's kind of anti-synergy with your commander, but The Immortal Sun could very well help you out here. It's the perfect anti walker tech and it gives you a card each turn (so you don't lose your commander's most essential function) next to it's other abilities.
Also fits the deck's theme perfectly, as no one will expect it if you have a pw commander
If my post has no tags, then i posted from my phone.
Credit to DolZero for this awesome sig!
Ah yes. Read the card, lol. I agree, it's a strong card, I'm not entirely sure it has a place here though. It's a shoe in for Bruna, but I'll wait and see here.
I do run Brutalizer Exarch here, and I'd done the same; I hadn't really clicked it would sort walkers out. It's a strong card, and I could probably see adding either Mold Shambler or Woodfall Primus, depending on WP's availability and price (so probably shambler).
I'm thinking harder about Wave of Vitriol too - it's a ton better than Scour From Existence here and fits largely the same role, so I might switch out and playtest it.
In: Wave of Vitriol
Out: Scour from Existence
These two don't fit EXACTLY the same roles, but there's some crossover. Wave can hit me just as tough as opponents, but there's a couple of things that make it more playable:
- the land drops for flipping Nissa, landfall for Rampaging Baloths and Tireless Tracker, and land death for Titania, Protector of Argoth.
- the recursion I have in the deck helps to negate the primary effects of the card.
- It's less reactionary than Scour, and more proactive. What I mean is that it drastically changes the board state and I can take advantage of that easily in a few different ways. By comparison Scour removes a single problematic permanent at a high cost, which a lot of the time won't be particularly advantageous.
This is still definitely a playtest, Wave may not stay if it doesn't work. But it's interesting enough to try it out.
Credit to DolZero for this awesome sig!
That's how I thought of it - it's not ideal, but I can recover from it better than most, in any of the ways it might be of detriment.
In other news, I'm keeping a close eye on Dominaria spoilers - I haven't seen anything that Nissa desperately needs, although Multani, Yavimaya's Avatar could be the beater that replaces Wolfir Silverheart. He plays nicely with Titania and the landfall fellows, and doubles as flying protection. Helm of the Host could be fun too, but it feels a little win more. There are a multitude of decks it could be good in, and this deck doesn't need it to be strong in combat.
In:
Multani, Yavimaya's Avatar
Thespian's Stage
Out:
Wolfir Silverheart
Forest
Strict upgrade, to me. Multani should be a beast. He makes Pathbreaker Ibex look nuts, has reach, plays nicely with the land-sac and reanimation theme, should be really decent. The Stage I'm less certain about. The key lands I want to copy are most likely to be legendary, so this may end up somewhere else. Time will tell if it has value here.
Credit to DolZero for this awesome sig!