Quote from GloriousGoose »Toxic Deluge is far superior to Dead of Winter, yes, but why not run both? If you only have one spot obviously it goes to Toxic Deluge, but Dead of Winter could be an excellent supplemental removal spell and is well worth testing in my opinion. Three mana is just such a great price for a scaling wrath effect, but maybe mana cost is somewhat irrelevant in a deck that can generate so much mana.
On another note, Glacial Chasm is hilarious. Not only do some decks just automatically lose to it due to not being able to answer it, it interacts wonderfully with Pestilence/Withering Wisps.
Quote from lyonhaert »Nice. I'm looking forward to Scheming Symmetry, too.
Quote from GloriousGoose »Quote from lyonhaert »Nice. I'm looking forward to Scheming Symmetry, too.Are you (and my other mono-black friends) satisfied with the number of lands you're running? I'm currently sitting at 35 mana producing lands plus 8 rocks and I'm not sure those numbers are right. Most MBC lists from 60 card formats typically ran 25 lands due to how mana hungry they are. 25/60 is roughly 42%, which is much higher than the roughly 35% that I'm currently running. I am running a decent number of rocks, though, and if you factor them in as being equal to half of a land, that comes to roughly 39%, which is still low. However, I'm not sure I agree with that conventional wisdom with regards to mana rocks. Two cost rocks are very important in my deck, but so is hitting land drops every turn until the late game. I would guess that even though you're not running the big dumb X spells our decks are similarly mana hungry due to Chainer's ability in the mid and late game.
For posterity, here is my current mana configuration:
lyonhaert's DeckMagic OnlineOCTGN2ApprenticeBuy These Cards
Lands: 351 Ancient Tomb1 Blast Zone1 Bojuka Bog1 Cabal Coffers1 Cabal Stronghold1 Deserted Temple1 Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx1 Strip Mine25 Swamp1 Thespian's Stage1 Urborg, Tomb of YawgmothMana Rocks: 81 Charcoal Diamond1 Coldsteel Heart1 Everflowing Chalice1 Fellwar Stone1 Mind Stone1 Sol Ring1 Star Compass1 Thought Vessel
If we consider Sol Ring to be on par with a land by itself and cut the weakest mana rock (Star Compass) for a land, the percentage comes to roughly 40%. That seems closer to being correct due to Erebos drawing all the cards and enabling those precious land drops. On the other hand, more rocks means a higher chance to land Erebos on turn 3 and as we all know, consistency is important. Maybe the difference is marginal but I'm really split on which way to take.
EDIT: Happy second birthday, thread!
Quote from dcovino »Mana-producing Lands
Quote from lyonhaert »Not an easy question for me to answer, but I'll start with my current configuration of mana-related stuff:
GloriousGoose's DeckMagic OnlineOCTGN2ApprenticeBuy These Cards
Lands (36)1 Bloodstained Mire1 Buried Ruin1 Cabal Coffers1 Crypt of Agadeem1 Deserted Temple1 Geier Reach Sanitarium1 Marsh Flats1 Myriad Landscape1 Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx1 Petrified Field1 Phyrexian Tower1 Polluted Delta1 Thawing Glaciers1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth1 Verdant Catacombs1 Vesuva1 Volrath's Stronghold19 SwampNon-Land, Independent (3)1 Solemn Simulacrum1 Wayfarer's Bauble1 Unstable ObeliskNon-Land, Dependent (6)1 Sword of the Animist1 Pawn of Ulamog1 Sifter of Skulls1 Crypt Ghast1 Pitiless Plunderer1 Phyrexian AltarOther (2)1 Yawgmoth's Will1 Crucible of Worlds
"Independent" means I can usually just play that and have extra mana, while "Dependent" means other things have to be going on for them to help with mana (usually synergy or a loop). YawgWin and Crucible can help make sure I hit at least one land drop each, but they're slightly dependent even though it's often easy enough to have a land or two in the graveyard — especially a fetch, and I've burned one of my few tutors before going for Crucible if I have a fetch or vice versa.
I think about my mana a bit differently because of the use of combos like token-producers with Phyrexian Altar. Last game I played with Chainer (it's a little while between games these days), I sat on a swamp and a C land for a few turns and got lucky with Abhorrent Overlord, Deathgreeter, and Phyrexian Altar. Even though I struggled a bit at first and missed a few drops, I ended the game with 6 lands that could have only produced 3BBB, and that seemed like a normal game to me. It does make it more vulnerable to somebody exiling the Altar and/or Pitiless Plunderer and cutting me off from that ability, but I'm okay with that.
Quote from GloriousGoose »36 lands is where I landed in my head, so it's nice to see others there, as well. It's not necessarily accurate or relevant for me since I run so many X spells and a commander with an activated ability that costs mana, but what's your curve at? Currently, excluding lands, I'm sitting at 3.21. Obviously Chainer is mana-intensive as well, so I think it's best to lean towards too much mana rather than not enough. I'm sure you recognize the power of a mana sink in the command zone.
Quote from GloriousGoose »As for games being few and far between, I hear you. I've played more Magic in a week than I have in months since I moved to a proper city. It's glorious.
Quote from GloriousGoose »Quote from dcovino »Mana-producing LandsDang, only 32 mana producing lands? That seems incredibly low. Do you find yourself consistently missing land drops in the early game? You do run the larger rocks that I don't, so maybe that mitigates missing the drops in the mid and late game a bit.
How have the bigger rocks like Dynamo and Lotus been working for you? I mean, obviously at least pretty decently since you still run them, but I've never tried them in Erebos. Outside of specific decks like Daretti and Paradox Engine combo. I'm a little skeptical about running expensive ramp since when I have 4-5 mana available is when I'm ready to start dropping permanents that affect the game state. All that said, the deck is very mana hungry and having big boosters that don't rely on lands could be very good.
Quote from GloriousGoose »Officially got the primer tag.
Unfortunately it looks like the forum is going to be split so I'll look into maintaining a thread on Nexus as well when I'm not working all the time.