MTG Salvation

I've updated the OP with some additional coding and post improvements. All that's left to do is edit the Card Choices section, the Match Analysis, and the addition of some images to break up the wall of text.

I hope that this thread will eventually achieve Primer status!

The Primer coding and pictures are completed as well as the match-up analysis. I'm quite pleased with how the OP looks and is formatted and I hope that it achieves Primer status for multi-player Commander. I need to simply wait for the Primer Committee to review it and see what their decision is.

In other news, there's nothing that substantially stands out as a Kaalia include from M19. Bone Dragon is a cool creature that is able to recur itself, but it doesn't do enough by itself. Demanding Dragon isn't good enough by itself since a 40 life format makes 5 damage, by itself, trivial. Liliana's Contract is actually really interesting, as it offers a different avenue for winning in this deck that meshes well with its core strategy. Sadly, 3BB is too much in my opinion.

Isolate is the card that I'm having most difficulty in evaluating because so many permanents that are dangerous have 1 CMC, most notably Sol Ring. I recommend picking up a playset of these because they'll probably spike in price as Legacy players realize its potential. As it is, it's a pretty decent choice for competitive Commander games because it can get rid of so many things. Mana dorks, Mana Vault, Carpet of Flowers, Sensei's Divining Top, and others. It's definitely worth testing to see how many viable targets are presented within a game. I imagine that it's probably going to be pretty good since 1 CMC is so common.

Nice Ressource,
Thank you!
Pleasant to read too!

Thanks, @CheffBoyardee! Kaalia is one of the decks that I've had built for the longest amount of time, so I've got some fond memories with her and wanted to create a good resource for other Kaalia players. It's done a great job of killing the Animar deck in our group, which was why it was created in the first place, and the game strategy that was employed in the first beta versions of the deck has since been refined to the current decklist.

So my wife actually plays this deck in its current iteration more than I do. I played with her (I was playing my newly created Zacama, Primal Calamity combo deck) and my brother (who was playing Whisper, Blood Liturgist Aristocats/life drain/Stax).

I will say that Linvala, Keeper of Silence and Cursed Totem are absolutely busted against any deck that needs activated abilities. While my wife didn't win (because she drew lands for literally 7 turns...), those two particular Stax effects gave her so much time to be able to deploy her army of threats. I did eventually win because I was able to recur my Krosan Grip with a top-decked Eternal Witness, destroy her Cursed Totem (my brother had killed her Linvala, Keeper of Silence with a kicked Vicious Offering a couple of turns previous) and blow up pretty much everything with my 3 mana doublers and Zacama's ability. It was a good game, and my brother's deck was slow to get his discard effects online (his Stax strategy is to attack the hand via discard effects like Bottomless Pit and Necrogen Mists. It was a good game that went on far longer than it should have because of Kaalia's Stax interaction in slowing us down despite her bad luck.

The Primer is pretty much complete. All sections have relevant content, the layout looks good, the images and pictures are formatted correctly, and I think the Primer is well-written. It's under review again, but I'm hopeful that this will be awarded a Primer tag soon.

Success! The Primer tag has been awarded to the thread and it's been added to the directory of Primers. It only took 9 months, haha, but it's definitely a source of pride for me now. I'll keep the thread updated with the different strategies and card choices that will be discussed

Awesome decklist! I've been gradually working on getting all the expensive cards to have the ultimate deck.

Thanks so much for keeping the thread updated.

Felicitation!
Great news!

Quote from Lollerskittles »

Awesome decklist! I've been gradually working on getting all the expensive cards to have the ultimate deck.

Thanks so much for keeping the thread updated.

Thanks very much! I hope that it's a good resource for you. It will help you compete at competitive levels of play and is a very powerful configuration for Kaalia, in my opinion.

Quote from CheffBoyardee »

Felicitation!
Great news!

Indeed! Thanks very much. It was a lot of fun to write and develop, and though the process took nearly 9 months to complete, it's worth it.

As a quick game report, my wife played Kaalia against my Dralnu Storm deck and my friend's Arcum combo deck. She played out a Cursed Totem on T2, followed up by a Linvala, Keeper of Silence and it was really hard to get anything off the ground. She won that game on the combination of stifling our resources (she hit us with a Thalia too) and Archfiend of Despair shortened the game to basically a couple of turns. Kaalia, once she gets going and there's a couple of Stax pieces on the board, is really quite powerful.

I'm needing some recommendations on tutors for this deck. Sarkhan's Triumph, while cool in its applications, is still a little narrow for what I want in a tutor. I'm tossing around the idea of Diabolic Intent, Tainted Pact, and Grim Tutor. The Intent doesn't seem to have enough early creature density to be really effective, so that's the weakest tutor effect I'm considering.

I wanted to know if there were any other opinions out there regarding tutors in WBR for a competitive decklist. Any ideas?

Quote from benjameenbear »

I wanted to know if there were any other opinions out there regarding tutors in WBR for a competitive decklist. Any ideas?

I play Gamble. I know it´s risky, but I also play things like reanimate and animate dead in case a monster is discarded.

Quote from benjameenbear »

I'm needing some recommendations on tutors for this deck. Sarkhan's Triumph, while cool in its applications, is still a little narrow for what I want in a tutor. I'm tossing around the idea of Diabolic Intent, Tainted Pact, and Grim Tutor. The Intent doesn't seem to have enough early creature density to be really effective, so that's the weakest tutor effect I'm considering.

I wanted to know if there were any other opinions out there regarding tutors in WBR for a competitive decklist. Any ideas?

I think Diabolic intent is bad because we dont run that many creatures, tainted pact is great as long as you set up the deck correctly eich means you cannot have 2 cards with the same name, so no 2 copies of basics either.


Now that people in this post likes Kaalia multilayer I want to ask you something.

I love Kaalia and it was my very first "real" commander edh deck, I had fun in 1v1 but I still have problems in multi

Let me tell you why,

Winning or loosing is not a big issue (for me) but having fun is, and for me, having fun means having the chance to develop your plan

Example:

How my Edgard Markov deck works: I play somes dudes, combat, answers, etc. win or loose

How Kaalia works (in my meta): I shiffle my deck, everyone focus on me, by turn 4-6 I am at 5 life points, only if I can get a broken hand I can have my lady on the battlefield and do some stuff because people will always save their answers for her.

So, how is your meta experience?

Check this list for ideas: https://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/kaalia-reanimator-combo/

@alexev
Thanks for your input. I definitely agree that the intent is not so good because we aren't mana dork heavy like other lists. I'm still weighing the options of the Tainted Pact vs. Grim Tutor. I'm leaning towards the Grim simply because it doesn't exile my library and Kaalia needs a lot of cards in play to work effectively.

In regards to your TappedOut list, Kaalia Reanimator is definitely a strong strategy. I considered switching over to it myself but then realized that the Stax package is preferable for my playstyle and is more effective against my particular playgroup. Some initial thoughts about your list:

1. One thing to always remember is that during the Worldgorger loop with Animate Dead is that you need another valid target in your 'yard to stop the loop; otherwise, it will continue indefinitely and the game will actually stall out. So unless you have a permanent or creature card in your 'yard that either wins the game or provides a new target for the Animate Dead to target, you're dead on arrival. I didn't see this addressed in your explanation, and I think it's worth mentioning.
2. I'm surprised at the exclusion of certain Angels/Demons/Dragons from your list. I assume that you're operating on some sort of budget? One of the most effective Angels that Kaalia can play is Linvala, Keeper of Silence. She single-handedly shuts down entire strategies and is even easy on the CMC so you can cast her in case Kaalia has died. I also highly recommend the new Archfiend of Despair; my wife played it last night and it killed two players (I was one of them) after her attack step. Look at the Demon as a functional copy of Gisela, and I think you'll appreciate its power in relation to the deck.
3. I can make some suggestions to your list here if you'd like. Would that be something you're interested in?

@manugI84
Yeah, Gamble in the list that I'm currently running is not a risk I'm willing to take. If I happen to discard the card I tutor for, I have no real way of getting it back. Gamble works great in a Reanimator strategy, where the discard is indeed desirable. It's a decent suggestion though, so thanks for chiming in!

It sounds like you're also running a semi-Reanimator list, is that right? Do you have it posted somewhere?

Quote from benjameenbear »

@manugI84
Yeah, Gamble in the list that I'm currently running is not a risk I'm willing to take. If I happen to discard the card I tutor for, I have no real way of getting it back. Gamble works great in a Reanimator strategy, where the discard is indeed desirable. It's a decent suggestion though, so thanks for chiming in!

It sounds like you're also running a semi-Reanimator list, is that right? Do you have it posted somewhere?

No, it isn´t posted anywhere haha. In fact, your list inspired me when I started building the deck. It´s pretty similar to yours, but I play 3 reanimate spells instead of some stax pieces like thalia or suppression field.

@manugI84
Glad the Primer inspired you. I think I'll have to draw up a Kaalia combo list as a supplemental decklist on top of the Stax version that I play. It seems like there's enough people that having such a list would be useful to reference.

@alexev
So, your meta is wise to the devastation that Kaalia brings. Not to worry! I'll do a more in depth critique of your list and offer suggestions on how you might be able to improve her. But to answer your question, my wife plays Kaalia primarily with the list that's on the OP. She and I play in a competitive meta, with Freyalise Storm/Elfball, Arcum Paradox Flute Combo, Teferi Chain Veil (what I usually play), Dralnu Storm (what I'm testing currently), Animar combo, Thrasios + Tymna Hulk Flash, Krenko Combo Goblins, Edric Turns, and Memnarch Combo (my go-to decklist). Since most of the decks Kaalia plays against are combo oriented, they don't have a lot of Aggro pressure being applied to the table at any given point. This means that I don't have to worry about my life total as much and there are plenty of other combo decks at the table that are warily watching each other. Because they're all looking for the right opportunity to execute their combo, I take advantage of their relatively small board development by deploying Stax pieces. This pushes their window of opportunity further away from them while enabling a chance for Kaalia to be safely cast and attacking.

From the list that you've linked on TappedOut, and from the general description you've provided about your playgroup, I would make the following suggestions:

1. I'm assuming that you're operating under a budget and that you may or may not have access to the more expensive mana rocks i.e. Mana Crypt or Mox Diamond. If your playgroup allows it, I would recommend proxying them up and giving them a go. Getting a fast Kaalia is a great way to get under their Wrath effects and creatures so that YOU can be the aggressor instead of the other way around. Generator Servant is another way that you can make sure that you get at least one attack step
2. Cataclysm is superior to Catastrophe in my opinion. It hits lands AND creatures, and usually does a good job of putting any type of board development for your opponents to a screeching halt. That's an easy swap that should be relatively cheap since Cataclysm has been reprinted (the art is beautiful btw).
3. The mass discard that you play isn't helping your strategy in my opinion. Kaalia depends on having a constant flow of creatures ETB tapped and attacking so that the game is shortened (in your favor). Draining your own card advantage each turn or whenever you cast a spell is too symmetrical in its damage. You could replace Oppression and Necrogen Mists with more removal or more Kaalia targets. Toxic Deluge is a card that springs to mind as an easy inclusion that should help diminish your opponents' ability to quickly pressure your life total. They can't damage you with dead creatures.
4. I'd also recommend adapting your playstyle a bit. Jamming Kaalia as hard as possible may not be the best strategy for your group. It might be better to play a little more conservatively and just kill their boards repeatedly with Wrath effects and other removal. Kaalia is a really broken card and will absolutely draw attention to herself, meaning that you'll always be on people's radar and draw their removal and attention. So use that to your advantage. Slow roll your Kaalia and show that you can tutor for your combo or Wrath the board. Scourge of Kher Ridges does a fantastic job of getting rid of tempo-accelerating mana dorks for your opponents while also keeping any token strategies on lock as a repeatable Wrath effect. Fire Covenant could be an additional Wrath effect that your opponents won't ever see coming. Crackling Doom is also useful in the case there's a Voltron deck coming at you repeatedly. If you lean in to Kaalia's reputation, I think you'll find that you can lengthen out the game while your opponents hold up removal or interaction for your Kaalia deck.
5. Lastly, if there's blatant collusion at your table, where your opponents are literally conspiring against you and ALWAYS attack you and ignore each other, it might be time to have a conversation with your playgroup. What is it about your Kaalia deck that they don't like? Is it the mana denial? The discard? If you address their concerns directly you might be able to alleviate some of the pressure and have a more enjoyable game. When my wife sits down with her Kaalia deck, each player goes into the game with the direct goal of winning. This minimizes the politics to an extent because we don't really care who's doing what; every other opponent is committed to trying to win and therefore stop EVERY other player from winning.

I'll try and draft a Reanimator list and post it later today sometime along with a brief explanation of the combo lines. I think that the Stax approach is better, personally, but the Reanimator strategy is worth addressing.

Thanks for your input.

I was trying mass discard effects because Kaalia (my build) is less worried about topdecking than my opponents, I can use some fatties in the GY and topdeck some reanimation spell, I can use some lands in the gy and topdeck the crucible of worlds I can use Unburial rites from the GY etc.

I have an old cpy of Cataclysm I used to run it in Kaalia but I droped it, maybe Ill give it another try

But if my opponents have cards in their hands they will use it against me. It is not a proven strategy, I am trying it out.

My table always focus on me when I play Kaalia, one of the players had told me that everytime I shufle the Kaalia he will attck me first, so it not a perception of mine.

My winrate with Kaalia is near 0% while my winrate with Oloro is 75%+ but somehow they fear more Kaalia

You're welcome, @alexev. I personally despise being in a top-deck situation unless my Commander breaks that symmetry. Let me know how your games go with the Discard stax pieces.

That's a pretty unpleasant effect of playing Kaalia. I'd recommend including a heavier Stax package so that you can have your opponents focus on those Stax pieces hindering their strategy and not Kaalia.

I hope that the suggestions help!

Commander 2018 spoilers are up, officially, so it's time to do a quick review of the new cards and analyze which ones might get a test or two in Kaalia.

Commander 2018 Review

• Xantcha, Sleeper Agent - I love the fact that they're finally putting legendary cards on some of the most crucial characters from MTG's past. Xantcha is actually a really decent card since it acts as a form of card advantage for you while giving one of your opponents an undercosted 5/5 to attack your other opponents with. The activated ability is concerning, since we are enabling ANY and ALL of our opponents the ability to draw, but that ability costs 3 and 2 life. That does add up, but the fact that any opponent can use it makes this card dangerous.
• Boreas Charger - this card is actually relevant! It's got cool art and a very important ramping effect for mono-W. This might be a decent card to play because Wrath effects are pretty common in EDH, but compared to the power level of the other cards and ramp in the deck, the Pegasus doesn't quite cut it.
• Entreat the Dead - a VERY cool card, we aren't a dedicated Reanimator deck. And we don't have too many ways to reliably Miracle the Entreatment and mass resurrect our 'yard into play. Pass.
• Heavenly Blademaster - a cool Angel that is not supported by this decklist or strategy at all. We're passing on this card.
• Magus of the Balance - OH MAN. This card is SO curious. It's activated ability is steep, and has anti-synergy with the deck strategy and its card choices, but the ability to Balance out the game is so powerful. I will be testing this card once I acquire my copy of it and see if the cost on its activated ability is too prohibitive.
• Nesting Dragon - although the CMC is attractive, we don't care about its ability at all. So, in this deck, the Dragon is a vanilla creature that spawns not effective tokens.
• Sower of Discord - now this is a card I can get behind. Being able to mirror damage to two opponents at once is really powerful and will help shorten the clock for the game. It's got a good rate of damage for its CMC, it's a relevant target for Kaalia, and it helps to shorten the clock against our opponents. I'll be critically evaluating it to see what card will be cut in order to make room for this Demon. Most likely it will be Bloodgift Demon.
• Treasure Nabber - a hilarious and VERY effective way of breaking up any infinite combos that rely on mana rocks, this little Goblin might actually make the cut. Being able to steal a mana rock and use it on your turn for mana output is fantastic. It indirectly stifles your opponents from executing their artifact-based combos while also increasing your own mana generation. I'm definitely giving this Goblin a try against the Teferi and Arcum decks in our playgroup.

I added a Budget decklist section to the Primer and corrected a few grammar and spelling errors in the Primer.

Carry on!

Really want to know if Treasure nabber will do the job, really like the guy already. Please, update any story you have about him.
It is a kind of ramp, hate bear, it is an early play for Kaalia...

Alright, I've (translation: my wife) playtested with Grim Tutor for several games and it's slightly better than Tainted Pact because it doesn't get rid of cards into exile and because it also offers a shuffle effect. So, Sarkhan's Triumph is replaced with the tutor and will be reflected in the Current Decklist.

Also, with our playgroup's permission, Treasure Nabber will be the 100th card in the deck (bringing the decklist count to 101 including Kaalia) so that I can test out how it does. If it's as powerful as I anticipate, I foresee that it will be included in the main decklist at the expense of Phyrexian Arena. The Arena is a solid workhorse card, but it's a little lackluster. I won't update the Current Decklist until testing confirms my suspicions and the Nabber earns its spot.

The other change I'll be testing is testing Sower of Discord in place of Bloodgift Demon. Again, a decent card that provides Card Advantage, but the Sower shortens the clock by allowing me to affect all 3 opponents during the combat step (attack two of your opponents and the Sower will affect the third) which will help in shortening the game and making our Stax plan more effective. It also hits harder than the Bloodgift, so we'll see how it performs. Again, I won't edit the Current Decklist for this testing until said testing shows whether or not the Sower is worth a maindeck inclusion.

Deck Changes:
+ Sower of Discord
+ Treasure Nabber
+ Grim Tutor

- Sarkhan's Triumph
- Bloodgift Demon

As promised, I've been working on a Reanimator combo list that aims to use the graveyard as a second resource in order to win the game. The kind of strategy naturally complements the core strategy of Kaalia, since it's another alternate means of cheating in overpowered Angels, Demons, and Dragons.



The goal of the deck is to keep recurring our Angels/Demons/Dragons so that they're always in play. Because we're leaning heavily into the Reanimator theme, we are sacrificing some of our card advantage and choosing instead to rely on our overpowered creatures to generate advantage for us. We're also sacrificing the Stax package for Kaalia in favor of going all in on the Reanimator strategy.

The non-Kaalia Reanimator targets were selected for combo purposes or for their strong synergy with the deck's primary game plan. Sun Titan recurs most of the lands and artifacts in the deck so that our discard/draw effects aren't as damaging in the long run. He also recurs every single enchantment based Reanimate effect in the deck so that we can keep the threats coming from our 'yard. Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite is just too good to pass up as a potential Reanimator card, hence her inclusion in the deck. The static -2/-2 is no joke and makes many deck strategies simply fall apart.

Since this is a rough draft for the deck, there's a higher than normal density of creatures in the deck. The reason for this is two-fold: 1) we want to make Kaalia a viable method of cheating creatures into play IN ADDITION to the core Reanimator strategy and 2) we want our discard/draw effects to be live at any stage of the game. Because Reanimator is the primary strategy, we're ok with binning two powerful targets in order to draw deeper into the deck to find the Reanimation pieces we need. Therefore, having a higher density of creatures in the deck is encouraged to make these kind of effects relevant and useful throughout the course of the game. Sneak Attack also gets better the more creatures that you're playing, and Sneak ATtack is one of the better ways to get Reanimation targets into the 'yard for our Reanimating effects.

The primary combo line is to get Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker into play and then copy Felidar Guardian/Restoration Angel repeatedly (their trigger targeting Kiki-Jiki so he can ETB untapped and ready to activate his ability again). After making a swarm of Angels or Cats, you then move to attack step and obliterate your opponents for infinite damage.

"No Worldgorger Dragon? This is blasphemy!" Yeah, I chose not to include the Worldgorger Dragon because it requires me to play some sort of infinite outlet in order to close the game out. There are very few of those that are actually good that I would consider playing, and those are Dragon Tempest, Piranha Marsh, Shivan Gorge, and Shivan Dragon. These are all good enough cards on their own that playing Worldgorger Combo should be reasonable.

The primary reason I don't play it is because it's so fragile and devastating when it is disrupted. If, at any point, an opponent kills the Dragon in response to its ETB ability, I lose my board for the rest of the game. To me, this cost is much too high to consider, since that most likely means I'm out of the game for the rest of the game. It's also very possible and easy to just get stuck in the infinite flickering of the Dragon and cause the game to draw out if you have no other viable Reanimation target available in a 'yard. These two factors are the primary reasons I am NOT playing the Worldgorger combo in the main.

Some fun synergies include"
Emeria Shepherd + fetchlands = this is a fun way to get a bunch of Plains into play and Reanimate pretty much anything in your 'yard for free. And with Sun Titan in the deck, you should be able to recur a bunch of lands consistently to keep the Shepherd triggering consistently.

Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker + Karmic Guide = a free, instant speed, non-Life consuming Reanimate effect each turn

I will devote the second post to the creation of a mini-Primer for this particular Reanimator strategy. It seems that Kaalia Reanimator is very popular as a decklist, so I think it's appropriate to create that second mini-Primer to help guide readers on best practices for Kaalia Reanimator. I'll have to update the thread title as well to reflect this Primer duality.

Official Change to the OP List.

-Mox Diamond
+Tithe

This is more of a consistency issue and playing a low land count. Tithe helps develop our strategy more effectively than the Diamond while also providing some minor card thinning and a deck shuffle.

Hi Benjameenbear! Big congratulations on achieving primer status So happy that you're finally getting the recognition you deserve for this amazing resource.
I had one question regarding the direction you've taken the decklist of late. What is the reason for removing Armageddon and Ravages of War? I thought they were key pieces in closing out the game once Kaalia is on the field.