Well I've always had horizon canopy and haven't really played it in the deck.
So in terms of the deck's play patterns, I have sort of a hard time trading lands for cards. Simply because, so many of our repeatable draw engines are very mana-hungry. So sacrificing a land in order to draw a single card seems like you're sacrificing long-term value for short-term value, which isn't usually what we're about, especially since you probably wouldn't even consider sacrificing the land until at least midgame. The other issue I have with it is that it doubly fights against our big mana-sink draw engines because of the life payment. When we're trying to play a very long game (especially without pulse of the fields) little bits of damage can add up.
I think if it has a place to shine, it's probably in a more cEDH environment where you can't realistically expect to coast to victory on big slow CA engines, and where paying a few life is less likely to matter and etbut fixing is at a premium. Unfortunately, since I don't have anyplace to play at nearly the kind of power level that would make it look good, I don't think it's likely to look very good. Especially in my budget version (Which is my standalone version, I only play non-budget versions if I'm assembling it from my main collection to test things out), I'm running lots of big dumb CA engines that are just going to make it look bad.
For cEDH, I think very efficient draw/filter like sylvan library and top are going to be the best options because they'll pay off quickly, along with a higher density of cheap answers to block fast combos, which makes having a little extra draw hiding in the manabase a good idea in case you get stuck when library gets blown up or whatever.
As far as everdream, my main thinking is that the time you MOST need to draw cards is when you're firing off answers. The point is to replenish the hand, basically - if we're not answering things, we don't need draw anyway. So then it's just more efficient than whispers at doing that. But it does afford less control than whispers does, whispers is obviously a lot better if you start flooding out.
When there's a new forum, as long as there's an appropriate place for it I'll copy this guide over there. Of course we'll lose all the chat, not much to do about that. It'll still be here in read-only form, though.
The real nightmare is going to be reformatting everything, after all the hours I had to put into it to get it up to primer caliber with this forum's tags. Blarg. Maybe they'll figure out a way to keep the same tags. I can only hope.
When there's a new forum, as long as there's an appropriate place for it I'll copy this guide over there. Of course we'll lose all the chat, not much to do about that. It'll still be here in read-only form, though.
The real nightmare is going to be reformatting everything, after all the hours I had to put into it to get it up to primer caliber with this forum's tags. Blarg. Maybe they'll figure out a way to keep the same tags. I can only hope.
They do plan on keeping things as similar as possible so that it's hopefully just copy-paste. As for the thread here, if it stays available as read-only it can most likely be linked to.
Something I'm curious to get people's opinions on for the deck - uncounterable spells.
I lost a game last week to an uncounterable rain of hailfire off boseiju, who shelters all. Now, I think it's fair to say I misplayed - I could have destroyed either her cabal stronghold or her boseiju, but both had been around for a while and neither had done much of relevance yet. I also could have used a pawn to put more pressure on her life total with hippos (one guy was playing an eggs combo deck that was basically out of the game at this point, so he was pretty safe to give tokens to). I also kept playing Phelddagrif rather than keep up more mana, and I might have been able to dig my way to my summary dismissal (I couldn't have, it was second from the bottom, but it was still arguably a misplay). And I also could have kept my life total higher, in which case my instant-speed draw power might have been enough to put me out of range. Admittedly, this is the budget version, so that meant I had less green mana to give hippos, less efficient of draw to find my helpful counters and removal, etc. So there's some leeway there.
But I do wonder if I should be running more non-countering counters. Cards like Vexing Shusher give me the cold sweats because I have very few answers to vexing shusher -> enter the infinite or some similarly game-ending spell - to say nothing of just straight up obliterate. Right now I'm running 2 in my budget version - commit // memory and summary dismissal - but I wonder if I should be running more.
The thing I don't like about unsubstantiate and venser, although they are very flexible, is that they don't really solve the problem long-term. I mean, they might fix the vexing shusher problem since you can blow it up first, but versus stuff like obliterate they don't do enough good in lots of situations. And that's true even for regular spells. They're kind of narrow in a different way. But maybe I should be giving them a chance, they are very flexible.
Mindbreak trap is one I think I should be giving more credit to. It answers a lot of fast combos for free, exiles, hits uncounterables, and 4 for a counter is totally fine in a casual setting. I think it'll cost 0 when it needs to and won't when it doesn't matter. So I'm thinking I should give it a shot.
time stop is obviously a different animal - arguably the most flexible answer in the game, but the cost is pretty horrible. For a casual-meta version I think it's probably a good call, for an anti-cEDH version it looks pretty terrible. Not sure on that one.
Meddling is maybe the most interesting one - the option to delay a combo piece for a turn could easily be enough time to break apart the combo early, whereas delaying a big dumb bomb for 15 turns in the late-game is nearly as good as permanently exiling it (though if there's a deck that cares about 15 turns later, it's us). Also it strips off the cannot be countered from boseiju or shusher.
Then there's Aethersnatch and commandeer - interesting because they give a major additional wincon, buuut on the other hand it's a really funny wincon that probably won't piss anyone off too much or raise threat profile for later. Or at least one hopes. So maybe I should give them SOME consideration. On the other hand, if the goal is just getting around uncounterability, paying 6-7 mana seems like a lot (although the pseudo-FOW mode is nice to have on occasion, albeit hard to pull off).
There's also Failure // Comply. This just seems too weak to me - it's a bounce-only counterspell, and if they can recast it that turn then you haven't done much. Best cast you delay it by 2 turns for 5 mana. Seems pretty weak to me, unless you think your opponents can kill them in 2 turns.
Anyway I'm curious to hear people's thoughts - do you run any of these? Have they been good? Do you face down uncounterable wincons very often, and if so, what do you do about it?
Queller would not work on torment of hailfire because of the peculiarities of X mana costs.
I'll just skip any of the whole "shoulda attacked her manabase" stuff because while that's true it's worth having a discussion about countering uncounterable spells.
I think Summary Dismissal is the only really efficient enough for EDH card for dealing generically with uncounterable spells with the added bonus of dealing with on cast triggers (UGH, do not like that design space). Venser, Shaper Savant is a close second but he lets them just recast it, so you have to have a way of then stopping the shenanigans that're enabling it. In one case I can recall the green player had made about 70 mana and just g-waved for 30, so was able to just re-do it after I vensered it Commandeer is great but it has a very high deckbuilding cost of needing multiple blue cards to be very efficient.
In my Inalla deck (which is my closest analogue to this deck), I run dismissal, commandeer and venser. I think those are the best options if you can support the blue commitment.
Unsubstantiate is just just not EDH playable I don't think.
Teferi's protection is probably the only core thing you're missing in this color (though I know that's in your budgetless decklist) it mostly serves this same role. There might be some other cards that do that, maybe prevent loss of life or something?
Because of the wording specifically of Torment I think that you can simply just choose not to sac/discard, and then the default mode of the card is "lose 3 life" which can't happen.
But I doubt there are any other life loss prevention spells that are worth playing
And TP is really the only one that's going to be broad enough to essentially read "Counter target uncounterable spell in most circumstances" - though obviously it doesn't stop infinite combos unfortunately (mike & trike, say).
I kinda forgot to talk about spell queller, but I think it's kind of obvious why I wouldn't play it - it doesn't hit most of the stuff we care about, it can often only be temporary, and it creates a body that we don't want to waste resources protecting.
I think Venser is a good card that doesn't fit in our deck. We just have no use for the body, basically. So it's a more flexible unsubstantiate for twice as much.
True, didn't think about teferi's protection. But that does solve a lot of potential problems, including obliterate.
Torment is a particularly nasty card because it wins the game basically alone, and the only interaction is counterspells, but it's far from the only thing worth talking about. I think Obliterate is probably worse since it's always uncounterable.
Do you have an opinion on ertai's meddling or mindbreak trap? I think they both probably merit inclusion, or at least consideration. I think mindbreak is probably just a shoe-in if you're worried about uncounterables, but meddling is an interesting beast. Not sure if it's worth it or not, but it seems really funky politically. You could hit it for just a couple turns, for example, if you want to make them a big target. I don't love delay as much, because it doesn't provide the same flexibility. But being able to use it as a near-total counterspell late is valuable, where delay can falter.
EDIT: oh, in other news - been loving the desert package. Haven't really used the other deserts much except for a last point of damage, but the grave hate is excellent imo.
Yeah your deck really does not seem to care much about venser. I could see some arguments for a riptide lab/small wizard package just because there are some really good ones (archaeomancer, snapcaster, venser) and they create end game locks, but I don't think it's really that good.
You hit the nail on the head with Torment, and why I hate it Being a single card that wins the game on the stack is really rough for non-blue, and kinda nudges people toward playing it in my opinion when it's heavily present.
And you're dead right about queller; queller is only good if you can spam it or if you really want the body, but it doesn't do the same things we need.
Mindbreak Trap is very very good and one I forgot about. I have had it on the bubble in my Inalla build for a long time. I never played it but I think it probably is good. I expect it is better than Pact of Negation for me, which is the other counterspell I hem and haw about a lot.
ertai's meddling is a very good card. I used to play it in Edric. Frankly, I forgot it didn't have the "counter target spell" verbiage on it. It's probably good enough for this deck and I should probably put it in Inalla lol
The suspend disadvantage is real, but you can always put it on 7 or something if you need to I guess. or put it on 3 and recommend everyone kill the obliterator/tormenter
re: Desert package - Scavenger grounds is insanely strong for sure. Grossly underrated.
So, I've never played with Ertai's Meddling before, and when I started constructing this post I thought I knew exactly how it worked. Boy, was I wrong! Ertai's Meddling isn't intuitive at all, and I did not know I would be spending the next several hours poring over old rules questions in order to learn how it works. Just to make sure anyone reading this is on the same page, here's what you need to know about Ertai's Meddling:
"The player puts it onto the stack as a copy of the original spell." is an extremely misleading sentence. Ertai's Meddling doesn't create a copy of the exiled spell and then cast it like Isochron Scepter. Ertai's Meddling literally puts whatever physical card it exiled back onto the stack from exile. Only now, the card Ertai's Meddling returns isn't itself anymore. Oh no. That card is instead a copy of whatever it happened to be whenever Ertai's Meddling first exiled it. In many cases, there won't be any difference. If I cast Grizzly Bears, and it gets exiled by Ertai's Meddling, that Grizzly Bears is going to be a regular Grizzly Bears when it returns from exile. But if I controlled a Conspiracy naming Sliver whenever I cast Grizzly Bears, Grizzly Bears will still be a Sliver when it's put back onto the stack even if Conspiracy is no longer on the battlefield.
(I don't know if Grizzly Bears will continue being a Sliver once it hits the battlefield. Text changing effects like Artificial Evolution make it so that creatures that have their text changed while they are on the stack continue having their text changed once they enter the battlefield. Conspiracy isn't a text changing effect though, so it may work differently. Grizzly Bears is for sure still a Sliver while it is on the stack though.)
In tune with my second bullet, if you use Ertai's Meddling to exile a spell that targets something, when you remove the last delay counter and put the exiled spell back onto the stack, you don't change any of the spell's targets; the spell will have exactly the same targets as when it first got exiled. This is because, despite the exiled card being a new spell, the exiled card still becomes identical to whatever it was whenever it first got exiled, and that includes what it targeted. As a result, spells returning from exile are sometimes going to fizzle; if none of the things an exiled spell initially targeted are still hanging around, the exiled spell will have no effect and will be put into its owner's graveyard once it resolves.
Spells that target other spells on the stack like Counterspell are almost guaranteed to do this. Spells that target cards on the battlefield (like Doom Blade) might also fizzle. It just depends on whether the creature Doom Blade targeted is still on the battlefield or not.
Unlike Delay, if you exile an X spell with Ertai's Meddling, the exiled spell will remember its X value when it returns from exile. This is because, again, the exiled spell becomes an exact copy of whatever it happened to be when it got exiled.
Something else I thought was worth mentioning: when you remove the last delay counter from a card exiled by Ertai's Meddling, you don't actually cast the exiled card. You just put it onto the stack. In most cases, this is exactly the same as casting a spell; a spell put onto the stack (like with Twincast) resolves the same whether you cast it or not. The only difference is that stuff which cares about players casting spells won't take effect. For example, Forgotten Ancient won't get a +1/+1 counter when a spell exiled with Ertai's Meddling is put onto the stack. Iona, Shield of Emeria also won't stop cards of the named color from returning since nothing is being cast. As far as I'm aware, Ertai's Meddling is the only card in all of Magic that puts spells onto the stack from another zone without ever actually casting them. (And, on an unrelated note, that may have implications for Mr. Bones.)
Finally, if you exile a spell with Ertai's Meddling and you lose the game before that spell returns, the exiled spell will stay in exile forever. This is because the player who cast Ertai's Meddling is the one who controls the delayed trigger that removes delay counters. And once that player has lost the game, they're out. They won't continue creating triggered abilities.
Is that everything? I think that's everything. About the only thing I'm unsure of is whether or not a Commander exiled by Ertai's Meddling will still get delay counters if it's put into the command zone instead of into exile. Intuition tells me no, but nothing about Ertai's Meddling is all that intuitive, and there was a relatively recent response to a rules question stating that commanders exiled by Ertai's Meddling would in fact get delay counters despite those counters not doing anything. It being the only answer of its kind makes me skeptical though.
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WUBRGMr. Bones' Wild RideGRBUW Trap your friends in an endless game with this 23-card combo!
If Ertai‘s Meddling counters a morphed spell, only a face-up colourless, nameless 2/2 creature will resolve after the delay. So in this case, Meddling only copies the „morph spell“, not the whole card (which is counter-intuitive to all the other cases, where Meddling actually remembers the countered spell‘s targets, X-values and so on).
EDIT: Knowing the rules now, this card looks mighty fine to me!
The only place in which it is worse than Delay seriously is when you cast it for 1X on your turn, but other than that it's pretty darned good. The ability to get uncounterable stuff is well worth it I think.
I think I'll give ertai's meddling and mindbreak a trial run. Time stop might also be worth it. I'll decide if I want to put my copy of teferi's protection in there or not, but I don't think it really requires further testing, I've been happy when I've played it in the past.
Funny enough, I put a picture of meddling in the card glossary but not the actual card. I'll try to remedy that if I get the chance to play it.
You were saying how this doesn't work well in games with less than 4 players, but how well does it do in larger games with more than 4 people? I could see it go either way because you are less likely to be targeted but there is also more people who can play threats.
You were saying how this doesn't work well in games with less than 4 players, but how well does it do in larger games with more than 4 people? I could see it go either way because you are less likely to be targeted but there is also more people who can play threats.
It's all dependent on the meta.
If your meta is everyone playing lots of infinite combos or creating extremely difficult to stop board states and no one running answers, then the more players you have, the more screwed you are. Or like if everyone is playing purphoros, you're probably in trouble. Dig for that pulse of the fields, I guess.
If your meta is people playing a mix of control and threats then people will answer each other, and more players is generally fine.
If your meta is people playing somewhat durdly, lower-powered stuff, then they'll usually tussle with each other and answer each other through combat - which is also fine.
Basically, more players can exacerbate problematic situations, but outside of that it's generally fine, and can definitely be an advantage. It does create more opportunities to make mistakes, though - You need to be wary of everyone.
I really enjoyed reading through your guide, extremely well written and really informative and fun to read.
Not having played MTG in 15+ years (stopped playing with the release of Mirrodin back then) but having my collection kept sealed away in a dark and dusty place, I recently discovered a MTG playgroup near me and decided to dig up my old cards and try to give it a go again. One of the hosts informed me of the "new" (at least for me) Commander format and I thought this might be the best starting point for me with my old and by todays standards mostly underpowered cards to at least have a chance.
Your Phelddagrif perfectly fits my playstyle for multiplayer games, thus I thought I might go and give it a try with the cards I've got:
Hi Turnspit, I'm glad you liked the write-up! Maybe in a few years you'll be able to read my adequate prose in an actual book (I'm reaching the 3/4 mark, but at the rate I write I'll be lucky if it's finished before 2025).
Your decklist composition looks very reasonable - it's a little hard to give too detailed of feedback without knowing the power level of your group, though. I think for anything in a low or medium-powered meta it could work just fine, but if you're finding yourself getting blindsided by things you weren't able to answer, here's some suggestions I'd make:
You have a lot of attacker-only removal, which will often not have any targets (let alone important targets) against certain kinds of decks - especially combo decks. Depending on your meta, that might be fine, or it could mean you have a hard time interacting with the things you really need to interact with. Personally my preference would be to replace them with removal that can hit non-attacking creatures and ideally noncreature permanents - first and foremost, beast within and generous gift are both amazingly versatile and relatively cheap. Bant Charm is another really versatile one that's not hard on the wallet. And Commit // Memory is another great.
I also prefer to avoid sorcery-speed targeted removal (you'll always have some sorcery-speed board wipes since it's hard to find enough instant-speed board wipes). The goal is to wait as long as possible before we're forced to act, which sorcery-speed removal doesn't let us do. So if possible, try to remove those ones (even if chain of acid is pretty hilarious...depending on your group it might be ok but it could also backfire hugely).
As far as the other cards go, of course there are some that aren't a totally optimal choice, but you can replace those as you get better options. There are a few I think run a little counter to the goal of the deck - hurricane is kind of a narrow board wipe and acts as a potential wincon (which could be good but also might make you a threat if people know you have it), Spelljack also could put you into a threatening position, and as you said I think the buyback spells can make you a threat (or at least a hindrance) that people want to get rid of (although you can always just play them without buyback if people are getting too bothered by them). That's not to say these things couldn't work out for you and still do well in your meta, though. My version of the deck is built on my experiences playing in my own groups, so you should feel free to take my advice with a grain of salt if these cards are working for you. But keep an eye on them when you play them, and decide if they're contributing or detracting from the game plan.
The one last thing I'd say is that I'd probably try to find more repeatable sources of card advantage. Right now the only repeatable engine you have is whispers of the muse, which is a great card, but I'd probably try to throw at least a couple more in there. Arch of Orazca is my favorite, pulse of the grid is great. If you can afford it, sylvan library is excellent, but if you can't, kumena's awakening does just fine in a pinch.
Brought Back is neat. Doesn't really seem particularly helpful...I guess it helps you ramp a bit. It's cool but I just see no real reason we'd need it.
Cryptic caves - if the MH1 lands were borderline, this is pretty weak.
drawn from dreams is like dig through time, except not that good. But if you aren't running fetches it might be ok for a budgety list.
flood of tears - so many better options for this effect.
lotus field is...fine. Doesn't really seem useful, though.
Tale's End - maybe the only card I'm actually particularly interested in. I've been liking stifle effects in my decks, and this gives us a way to include one without sacrificing too much flexibility.
ferocious pup is interesting. We're basically impossible to attack on the ground, but it also means we can't play board wipes. I mean, legally we can, but morally it's pretty much impossible. I think this is probably too much of a drawback.
Tale's End is pretty good. What do you think about Squelch? It's less flexible but drawing a card off of it seems powerful. Flood of Tears would be worth it if we ran powerful permanents like Omniscience, so other control decks might like it. Lotus Field is rather expensive (dollar-wise) even though it's good with a land reanimation package.
With Scheming Symmetry and Head Games, I have hope for more interesting cards that could enable Tasigur once more.
Sorry, I somehow missed this. Might have been when I was on vacation.
Not huge on squelch - I think the deck functions best when value and answers are pretty separated. Narrow answers are risky since we want to keep maximum control at any given time, with a minimum of necessary cards in hand at a given time. Less flexible answers means more cards required to have control of the game. For medium/low powered metas it's fine. I tend to find triggered abilities are more frequently the thing I want to counter, though. Hence I like Tale's End more.
I've not busted out Tasigur in a long time - I could see myself going back, but I think it's a lot harder to play politically in the same way, given his rep as a strong card. Plus...I mean, with how cool my Phelddagrif alter is...I don't think I can ever really replace Phelddy Scheming symmetry is a sweet card, though.
EDIT: copying over my comments from...that other site...
As far as old cards on my mind, first and foremost is search for Azcanta (I mean, it's not THAT old, but it's old enough to have been tested). Mostly because it looks so good for us. I really want it to work. I wasn't thrilled with it before, but I think part of that is in how I was using it. Revealing the cards is obviously not ideal, but (1) you can always fail to find, and (2) you can find other value generation - it hits exploration, nexus of fate, etc (3) you can just stop using it when you don't need anything, (4) you can use the thing you find right away, (5) it costs basically nothing, just 2 mana and it flips right away in the late-game, and the scry early can be great for finding lands so we don't hit handsize early (6) 1v1 it's kind of insane, way better than arch, (7) if it's a board wipe, you're getting it eot probably, so you can just fire it off next turn, or skip taking it if you don't want it, and most importantly (8) while having things your opponents know about and can play around is bad, it's not bad if you have them in addition to your other cards. So they know you have a counter - that's fine, as long as you have more counters. Savvy opponents are probably assuming you have one anyway. It becomes awkward when you've already got 7 cards in hand when you activate it, and now you're discarding - so just don't activate it when you have 7, simple. When you're in trouble and low on cards, BAM, gas when you most need it.
I'm also feeling a bit down on single-shot draw at the moment. For a few reasons. I'll go through some of my thoughts on the matter.
If you have a big draw spell, the problem becomes - when do you fire it off, and for how much? Obviously if you're running reliquary tower you can just fire it off for a ton, but then you're basically just playing regular control with a crappy wincon, since everyone will be gunning for you. If you aren't, though, then how many is enough? Obviously you'd prefer to draw 5-7 cards with it, but you can't realistically maintain control over the game with just a few answers in hand, usually. So you can't really go down that low in the first place. So now you have to fire it off for, like, 3-4. Which is just lame. Why even bother. Just run medium/small draw.
If you have small draw, the problem becomes - how much do you need to run? You don't want to run out of gas, and sometimes you have to fire off a bunch of answers at once and find yourself low on defenses. So you need a decent density to ensure you can top yourself back up. But now you're significantly watering down your chance to have early answers, and if nothing much is happening, you're going to have a bunch of draw spells you don't really want to cast because they'll just make you even more overloaded. So you really need the right mix of draw and answers, consistently, for a really long game. If you hit too much draw when nothing is happening, you're in trouble. If you hit a drought of draw and need more gas, you're in trouble. It's just not reliable.
My favorite draw spells sort of get around this issue a bit - chemister's insight, for example, is a really solid one, because it acts like multiple small draw spells. And there's draw like dig through time which is just so good that it's still probably worth it.
But a lot of the other single-shot draw...eh, I'm just not feeling it. I'd much rather have some consistent value source. That way I can always keep myself as topped up as I think I need to be, and I only need one card to do it, not consistently hitting a good mix of draw and answers for the entire game.
Ok, end of rant.
In other news - can't remember how clear I've been about this, but the budgetless version of Phelddagrif is a deck I put together from time to time, when I'm feeling especially Phelddagriffy and want to really push my Phelddagriffness to the limit. But those cards are part of my main collection that I use to build all my other decks, so usually I play the budget version, which has its own cards that don't need to be returned to the collection. BUT I'm now in the slow, expensive process of upgrading the budget Phelddagrif to a more badass version - I probably won't make it all the way to the fully budgetless version, because idk if I reaaallly want to shell out for more duals. But short of that, I've already got a lot of the expensive sweet cards, like cyc rift, exploration, intuition, a decent percentage of the fetches and shocks, etc. So that should enhance my ability to test this deck in its more powerful variation, which is my favorite version, personally. No offense, etbt lands.
Hello! I created this account purely to post on this legendary essay. Longtime fan of your work but with all pretenses aside, I would like to get down to business:
I have been a target in my playgroup since as long as I can remember. Unintentionally, most of my decks have turned oppressive. As a new poster, forgive me as I am unfamiliar as to how to link a card. The main decks I play are a Karametra enchantress build, a Meren deck, a Marath aggro deck, and a Marchesa deck with similar goals to this one. After achieving the role of "consistent archenemy", I've decided that I am unhappy staying as such. Therefore, after narrowing the issue down, I feel like my alarm bells are too easily set off as far as threats assessment goes. I must kill that Rhystic study or your commander repeatedly or your Sword of Fire and Ice. Today, I ask you of two things, what kind of cards should I be fine with existing and performing without letting my opponent ascend into an unassailable position? And finally, what is the updated list you are currently using?
P.S. What is the story behind the other primer written by you named "Dominance Through Vulnerability"?
Second, the more updated version is on mtgnexus, which includes my current list (https://www.mtgnexus.com/viewtopic.php?f=35&t=550&start=25). Although current by no means implies it's the best. It's probably too heavy on value engines, but I had a bunch I wanted to try. I've posted piecemeal updates in the thread, rating new cards, but the primer as a whole needs a bigger update. I've just been lazy. Maybe I'll get around to it today.
Thirdly, if you're already the consistent archenemy and have been for some time, I might suggest an even more aggressive option to reset the balance - my go-to when I feel like I just absolutely dominated the last couple matches is to bust out an unmodified precon for a game or two. Phelddagrif is more designed for an environment where you're going to at least be given a fair shake to see how threatening you are, and if you're already assumed to be the most threatening, it could lead to a downward spiral where you're forced to kill threat after threat after threat because they're ALL coming at you. Which will still likely result in you losing, but it also won't fully dispel the aura the aura of archenemy because you still killed a lot of their stuff on the way out.
If you think your playgroup is likely to approach a new deck fairly, then maybe Phelddagrif could still work, but from the way you've described it, I'd be a bit hesitant.
Fourthly, I'm not sure what you mean by "performing"...but it sounds like you're basically asking "how do I threat assess" which is difficult to talk about because I don't really think there's any obvious cut-and-dried answers. It's something you accumulate from playing the game.
But in general, the first thing I tend to do when threat-assessing is to try to get a bead on how scary enemies are as a whole. How good is their manabase? Are they playing many sub-par cards? Are they playing scary cards that might combo in the future? How good is their deck's synergy, does it seem like it has a cohesive game plan? How well are they playing, are they making a lot of dumb misplays? And how aggressive are they being towards me specifically? That's going to color a lot of my threat assessment, because if their deck is jank and they're playing it badly, then I probably don't really care if they draw twenty cards off rhystic study, especially if they're not aiming them at me.
An important part of your strategy when playing Phelddagrif is letting enemies get "out of control" in a way that will distract enemy threat assessment away from you, while ideally still being something you CAN get control of again, if you need to. So you want the deck getting out of control to be something that isn't going to throw too many scary curveballs at you.
Lastly...I have absolutely no idea what you mean about dominance through vulnerability. It sounds vaguely familiar but a google search turned up nothing. Link?
Thank you for responding quickly! To be honest, I had no idea if I was even going to get a reply due to the last post being from July 30th last year. I appreciate the level of thought put into your response as well, as it was very inspiring to read.
The idea of playing an unmodified precon sounds interesting as it really would increase my chance of (as my goal) building this deck and being successful with it in the long run.
Truth be told, my threat assessment could always find improvement but I have not had many problems with it as of now. Without being pretentious, most of the rotating meta I play with usually consists of 2-3 other players (in a four-player pod) with quite poor threat assessment. The main problem I'm facing is I don't know what to mainly feel threatened by. Usually, as is what happens too often, I will see threats, remove them and pay in the sense that they see me as an (aforementioned), oppressive player. What too often happens is that when I don't have that removal spell, the table falls into an inevitable doom as the (forgive the specifics) quiet, experienced player goes for the win with enough counterspells backed up to secure their victory.
Come to think of it, I don't properly know how to threat-assess card advantage or as to how to get the table aware of it.
Is there an ideal list that you would recommend using?
After visiting the page with your deck on MTGNexus, I have the following card queries (I am not questioning your judgement I am merely attempting to learn each card's place):
Search for Azcanta: After scouring your changelog and reading replies, I am curious as to why you play it after thoroughly scorning it due to the level of attention it attracts.
Intuition: Do you play this card because of the political aspect of it? Or just for synergy with Life From the Loam. Admittedly, I've been skeptical of this card for a while yet I've seen it played everywhere. I confess that I have not tested this card anywhere so I have no real experience with it.
Life From the Loam: Do you purely play this card to loop fetches? If so, what warrants skipping a draw and setting of people's "Hes's looping lands!" reaction and delivering Gitrog/Azusa PTSD.
Nexus of Fate;: I am bamboozled because this seems like something that would set off alarm bells like madness while not fulfilling your own goals to a relevant extent. (Obviously, I am wrong here as you have every card tested but I would like to know why).
Finally, boardipes: In short, boardipes are absurdly effective WMDs that warrant a play in even the most aggressive of decks. However, if the point of this deck is to let things get out of control, what's to stop them from gumming up your hand or setting the table off in anger when you drop them. In addition, if you are playing 10 boardwipes, when do you play them period? The dilemma I see that you've no doubt bypassed, is if you run a tenth of your deck as boardwipes, you have a choice whether you can use them constantly or let them pile up in shame. If you boardwipe too much, the boardstate never achieves anything and no one deals damage and the game grinds to a halt. What warrants the large dedication of slots?
Thank you for your time and excuse formatting and error please.
Well, as I've said, the nexus thread is the one that I'm more active on. I check salvation every once in a while - you got kinda lucky tbh.
Personally, I'm a big proponent of magic as a biathlon between deck construction and deck playing. I don't think anyone can really master a deck without having spent time building it. Hence, I intentionally made the guide open-ended, so that you can customize the deck to your budget, meta, and preferences. Simply put, there is no ideal list, especially since so much of the effectiveness is going to depend on how your opponents react to you plays. Is loam engine too scary and threatening, or is it fine? Depends entirely on the power level of your opponents, and how they react to what you're doing - and how they view you specifically. There's no way I could make a list that works optimally for all players and metas. You can copy one of my example lists, or (as I'd suggest) build your own. Maybe start with a budget version and try out cards as you get a feel for how you want the deck to play, if you want to jump in.
Ah, yes that's just an earlier version of the deck. I build and disassemble decks constantly, so sometimes I'll revisit a deck after I've long since disassembled it. In Phelddagrif's case, I came back to it a couple times, before finally making a permanent version which is now separate from the normal deck churn I go through, though I still tinker with it from time to time, and evaluate new cards in regards to the deck. Right now I've got a lot of new legends I'm brewing with, though, so I haven't played Phelddagrif much recently. I've made ~10 decks in the past month, and am working on 4.
Search for Azcanta is one I'm trying out. I think it can work, but it requires judicious usage - for example, not activating it if you already have a full grip. It's an effect I really like, so I'm doing my best to make it work. Whether you can "sell" it is up to you and your meta.
Intuition is incredibly powerful, as an instant-speed tutor. Fetching loam engine is a powerful piece of that, but also it's ability to reliably fetch a board wipe or counterspell, while dumping two cards into the graveyard, is really useful. With Phelddagrif's ability to "pay" people, it's almost always a 3 mana tutor with upside.
LFTL: you can use it just for fetches, that'd be a pretty tame use for the card. That might be worth doing if you want to keep its threat level low.
Usually when I play it, I'm looping cycling lands to generate big CA in the late-game. I don't run the lonely sandbar cycle, though, as they're too efficient imo and can look too threatening - so I just run the cycling deserts and bicycle lands, all of which cycle for 2. Efficient enough to generate decent CA, but not TOO efficient. But YMMV of course. If you can get away with running lonely sandbar, go for it.
nexus of fate I think I talk about in the glossary, but basically it's an out to mill (which can otherwise be hard for us to interact with) and a way to guarantee the win if the game goes sufficiently long. You can dredge loam like crazy to go infinite ASAP, but I wouldn't recommend it since it'll look pretty threatening. But if it's one of those 30 turn games, well, sometimes it's just gotta end. It does sometimes catch flak, but I always tell people it's basically just an explore in this deck. I've had it get countered before...obviously I didn't really care. If you know your meta and mill isn't going to happen you can probably ignore it. But going sight-unseen into a meta, I like to have the out. It doesn't really cost much to run since it's a fine draw once you have the mana for it.
Board wipes can gum up the hand, for sure. I think 10 is probably too many, I've planned to cut it to 8, but as I said I've been busy with other decks. They don't usually get too much anger, since usually the players who were behind are happy to see the board get cleared. Constant board wipes are a problem though, and can make people feel annoyed that they can't get anywhere - which is why I think 10 is probably too many. But there are also lots of board states that really necessitate a wipe to get back under control, so being able to find one when needed is often crucial.
So in terms of the deck's play patterns, I have sort of a hard time trading lands for cards. Simply because, so many of our repeatable draw engines are very mana-hungry. So sacrificing a land in order to draw a single card seems like you're sacrificing long-term value for short-term value, which isn't usually what we're about, especially since you probably wouldn't even consider sacrificing the land until at least midgame. The other issue I have with it is that it doubly fights against our big mana-sink draw engines because of the life payment. When we're trying to play a very long game (especially without pulse of the fields) little bits of damage can add up.
I think if it has a place to shine, it's probably in a more cEDH environment where you can't realistically expect to coast to victory on big slow CA engines, and where paying a few life is less likely to matter and etbut fixing is at a premium. Unfortunately, since I don't have anyplace to play at nearly the kind of power level that would make it look good, I don't think it's likely to look very good. Especially in my budget version (Which is my standalone version, I only play non-budget versions if I'm assembling it from my main collection to test things out), I'm running lots of big dumb CA engines that are just going to make it look bad.
For cEDH, I think very efficient draw/filter like sylvan library and top are going to be the best options because they'll pay off quickly, along with a higher density of cheap answers to block fast combos, which makes having a little extra draw hiding in the manabase a good idea in case you get stuck when library gets blown up or whatever.
As far as everdream, my main thinking is that the time you MOST need to draw cards is when you're firing off answers. The point is to replenish the hand, basically - if we're not answering things, we don't need draw anyway. So then it's just more efficient than whispers at doing that. But it does afford less control than whispers does, whispers is obviously a lot better if you start flooding out.
EDH Primers
Phelddagrif - Zirilan
EDH
Thrasios+Bruse - Pang - Sasaya - Wydwen - Feather - Rona - Toshiro - Sylvia+Khorvath - Geth - QMarchesa - Firesong - Athreos - Arixmethes - Isperia - Etali - Silas+Sidar - Saskia - Virtus+Gorm - Kynaios - Naban - Aryel - Mizzix - Kazuul - Tymna+Kraum - Sidar+Tymna - Ayli - Gwendlyn - Phelddagrif 4 - Liliana - Kaervek - Phelddagrif 3 - Mairsil - Scarab - Child - Phenax - Shirei - Thada - Depala - Circu - Kytheon - GrenzoHR - Phelddagrif - Reyhan+Kraum - Toshiro - Varolz - Nin - Ojutai - Tasigur - Zedruu - Uril - Edric - Wort - Zurgo - Nahiri - Grenzo - Kozilek - Yisan - Ink-Treader - Yisan - Brago - Sidisi - Toshiro - Alexi - Sygg - Brimaz - Sek'Kuar - Marchesa - Vish Kal - Iroas - Phelddagrif - Ephara - Derevi - Glissa - Wanderer - Saffi - Melek - Xiahou Dun - Lazav - Lin Sivvi - Zirilan - Glissa
PDH - Drake - Graverobber - Izzet GM - Tallowisp - Symbiote Brawl - Feather - Ugin - Jace - Scarab - Angrath - Vraska - Kumena Oathbreaker - Wrenn&6
Legacy: Death&Taxes (almost there)
EDH: Squee, Goblin Nabob / Phelddagrif
The real nightmare is going to be reformatting everything, after all the hours I had to put into it to get it up to primer caliber with this forum's tags. Blarg. Maybe they'll figure out a way to keep the same tags. I can only hope.
EDH Primers
Phelddagrif - Zirilan
EDH
Thrasios+Bruse - Pang - Sasaya - Wydwen - Feather - Rona - Toshiro - Sylvia+Khorvath - Geth - QMarchesa - Firesong - Athreos - Arixmethes - Isperia - Etali - Silas+Sidar - Saskia - Virtus+Gorm - Kynaios - Naban - Aryel - Mizzix - Kazuul - Tymna+Kraum - Sidar+Tymna - Ayli - Gwendlyn - Phelddagrif 4 - Liliana - Kaervek - Phelddagrif 3 - Mairsil - Scarab - Child - Phenax - Shirei - Thada - Depala - Circu - Kytheon - GrenzoHR - Phelddagrif - Reyhan+Kraum - Toshiro - Varolz - Nin - Ojutai - Tasigur - Zedruu - Uril - Edric - Wort - Zurgo - Nahiri - Grenzo - Kozilek - Yisan - Ink-Treader - Yisan - Brago - Sidisi - Toshiro - Alexi - Sygg - Brimaz - Sek'Kuar - Marchesa - Vish Kal - Iroas - Phelddagrif - Ephara - Derevi - Glissa - Wanderer - Saffi - Melek - Xiahou Dun - Lazav - Lin Sivvi - Zirilan - Glissa
PDH - Drake - Graverobber - Izzet GM - Tallowisp - Symbiote Brawl - Feather - Ugin - Jace - Scarab - Angrath - Vraska - Kumena Oathbreaker - Wrenn&6
The real nightmare is going to be reformatting everything, after all the hours I had to put into it to get it up to primer caliber with this forum's tags. Blarg. Maybe they'll figure out a way to keep the same tags. I can only hope.
EDH Primers
Phelddagrif - Zirilan
EDH
Thrasios+Bruse - Pang - Sasaya - Wydwen - Feather - Rona - Toshiro - Sylvia+Khorvath - Geth - QMarchesa - Firesong - Athreos - Arixmethes - Isperia - Etali - Silas+Sidar - Saskia - Virtus+Gorm - Kynaios - Naban - Aryel - Mizzix - Kazuul - Tymna+Kraum - Sidar+Tymna - Ayli - Gwendlyn - Phelddagrif 4 - Liliana - Kaervek - Phelddagrif 3 - Mairsil - Scarab - Child - Phenax - Shirei - Thada - Depala - Circu - Kytheon - GrenzoHR - Phelddagrif - Reyhan+Kraum - Toshiro - Varolz - Nin - Ojutai - Tasigur - Zedruu - Uril - Edric - Wort - Zurgo - Nahiri - Grenzo - Kozilek - Yisan - Ink-Treader - Yisan - Brago - Sidisi - Toshiro - Alexi - Sygg - Brimaz - Sek'Kuar - Marchesa - Vish Kal - Iroas - Phelddagrif - Ephara - Derevi - Glissa - Wanderer - Saffi - Melek - Xiahou Dun - Lazav - Lin Sivvi - Zirilan - Glissa
PDH - Drake - Graverobber - Izzet GM - Tallowisp - Symbiote Brawl - Feather - Ugin - Jace - Scarab - Angrath - Vraska - Kumena Oathbreaker - Wrenn&6
old thread
old thread
old thread
R Zada Arcane Storm
RBU Marchesa
GWU Estrid
GWR Samut?
URB Kess
(R/W)(U/B) Akiri & Silas
BWR Alesha
R Neheb Dragons
G Nylea Wurms
W Darien
U Tetsuko
I lost a game last week to an uncounterable rain of hailfire off boseiju, who shelters all. Now, I think it's fair to say I misplayed - I could have destroyed either her cabal stronghold or her boseiju, but both had been around for a while and neither had done much of relevance yet. I also could have used a pawn to put more pressure on her life total with hippos (one guy was playing an eggs combo deck that was basically out of the game at this point, so he was pretty safe to give tokens to). I also kept playing Phelddagrif rather than keep up more mana, and I might have been able to dig my way to my summary dismissal (I couldn't have, it was second from the bottom, but it was still arguably a misplay). And I also could have kept my life total higher, in which case my instant-speed draw power might have been enough to put me out of range. Admittedly, this is the budget version, so that meant I had less green mana to give hippos, less efficient of draw to find my helpful counters and removal, etc. So there's some leeway there.
But I do wonder if I should be running more non-countering counters. Cards like Vexing Shusher give me the cold sweats because I have very few answers to vexing shusher -> enter the infinite or some similarly game-ending spell - to say nothing of just straight up obliterate. Right now I'm running 2 in my budget version - commit // memory and summary dismissal - but I wonder if I should be running more.
The options are:
Anyone know of others?
The thing I don't like about unsubstantiate and venser, although they are very flexible, is that they don't really solve the problem long-term. I mean, they might fix the vexing shusher problem since you can blow it up first, but versus stuff like obliterate they don't do enough good in lots of situations. And that's true even for regular spells. They're kind of narrow in a different way. But maybe I should be giving them a chance, they are very flexible.
Mindbreak trap is one I think I should be giving more credit to. It answers a lot of fast combos for free, exiles, hits uncounterables, and 4 for a counter is totally fine in a casual setting. I think it'll cost 0 when it needs to and won't when it doesn't matter. So I'm thinking I should give it a shot.
time stop is obviously a different animal - arguably the most flexible answer in the game, but the cost is pretty horrible. For a casual-meta version I think it's probably a good call, for an anti-cEDH version it looks pretty terrible. Not sure on that one.
Meddling is maybe the most interesting one - the option to delay a combo piece for a turn could easily be enough time to break apart the combo early, whereas delaying a big dumb bomb for 15 turns in the late-game is nearly as good as permanently exiling it (though if there's a deck that cares about 15 turns later, it's us). Also it strips off the cannot be countered from boseiju or shusher.
Then there's Aethersnatch and commandeer - interesting because they give a major additional wincon, buuut on the other hand it's a really funny wincon that probably won't piss anyone off too much or raise threat profile for later. Or at least one hopes. So maybe I should give them SOME consideration. On the other hand, if the goal is just getting around uncounterability, paying 6-7 mana seems like a lot (although the pseudo-FOW mode is nice to have on occasion, albeit hard to pull off).
There's also Failure // Comply. This just seems too weak to me - it's a bounce-only counterspell, and if they can recast it that turn then you haven't done much. Best cast you delay it by 2 turns for 5 mana. Seems pretty weak to me, unless you think your opponents can kill them in 2 turns.
Anyway I'm curious to hear people's thoughts - do you run any of these? Have they been good? Do you face down uncounterable wincons very often, and if so, what do you do about it?
EDH Primers
Phelddagrif - Zirilan
EDH
Thrasios+Bruse - Pang - Sasaya - Wydwen - Feather - Rona - Toshiro - Sylvia+Khorvath - Geth - QMarchesa - Firesong - Athreos - Arixmethes - Isperia - Etali - Silas+Sidar - Saskia - Virtus+Gorm - Kynaios - Naban - Aryel - Mizzix - Kazuul - Tymna+Kraum - Sidar+Tymna - Ayli - Gwendlyn - Phelddagrif 4 - Liliana - Kaervek - Phelddagrif 3 - Mairsil - Scarab - Child - Phenax - Shirei - Thada - Depala - Circu - Kytheon - GrenzoHR - Phelddagrif - Reyhan+Kraum - Toshiro - Varolz - Nin - Ojutai - Tasigur - Zedruu - Uril - Edric - Wort - Zurgo - Nahiri - Grenzo - Kozilek - Yisan - Ink-Treader - Yisan - Brago - Sidisi - Toshiro - Alexi - Sygg - Brimaz - Sek'Kuar - Marchesa - Vish Kal - Iroas - Phelddagrif - Ephara - Derevi - Glissa - Wanderer - Saffi - Melek - Xiahou Dun - Lazav - Lin Sivvi - Zirilan - Glissa
PDH - Drake - Graverobber - Izzet GM - Tallowisp - Symbiote Brawl - Feather - Ugin - Jace - Scarab - Angrath - Vraska - Kumena Oathbreaker - Wrenn&6
I'll just skip any of the whole "shoulda attacked her manabase" stuff because while that's true it's worth having a discussion about countering uncounterable spells.
I think Summary Dismissal is the only really efficient enough for EDH card for dealing generically with uncounterable spells with the added bonus of dealing with on cast triggers (UGH, do not like that design space). Venser, Shaper Savant is a close second but he lets them just recast it, so you have to have a way of then stopping the shenanigans that're enabling it. In one case I can recall the green player had made about 70 mana and just g-waved for 30, so was able to just re-do it after I vensered it Commandeer is great but it has a very high deckbuilding cost of needing multiple blue cards to be very efficient.
In my Inalla deck (which is my closest analogue to this deck), I run dismissal, commandeer and venser. I think those are the best options if you can support the blue commitment.
Unsubstantiate is just just not EDH playable I don't think.
Teferi's protection is probably the only core thing you're missing in this color (though I know that's in your budgetless decklist) it mostly serves this same role. There might be some other cards that do that, maybe prevent loss of life or something?
Because of the wording specifically of Torment I think that you can simply just choose not to sac/discard, and then the default mode of the card is "lose 3 life" which can't happen.
But I doubt there are any other life loss prevention spells that are worth playing
And TP is really the only one that's going to be broad enough to essentially read "Counter target uncounterable spell in most circumstances" - though obviously it doesn't stop infinite combos unfortunately (mike & trike, say).
UW Ephara Hatebears [Primer], GB Gitrog Lands, BRU Inalla Combo-Control, URG Maelstrom Wanderer Landfall
I think Venser is a good card that doesn't fit in our deck. We just have no use for the body, basically. So it's a more flexible unsubstantiate for twice as much.
True, didn't think about teferi's protection. But that does solve a lot of potential problems, including obliterate.
Torment is a particularly nasty card because it wins the game basically alone, and the only interaction is counterspells, but it's far from the only thing worth talking about. I think Obliterate is probably worse since it's always uncounterable.
Do you have an opinion on ertai's meddling or mindbreak trap? I think they both probably merit inclusion, or at least consideration. I think mindbreak is probably just a shoe-in if you're worried about uncounterables, but meddling is an interesting beast. Not sure if it's worth it or not, but it seems really funky politically. You could hit it for just a couple turns, for example, if you want to make them a big target. I don't love delay as much, because it doesn't provide the same flexibility. But being able to use it as a near-total counterspell late is valuable, where delay can falter.
EDIT: oh, in other news - been loving the desert package. Haven't really used the other deserts much except for a last point of damage, but the grave hate is excellent imo.
EDH Primers
Phelddagrif - Zirilan
EDH
Thrasios+Bruse - Pang - Sasaya - Wydwen - Feather - Rona - Toshiro - Sylvia+Khorvath - Geth - QMarchesa - Firesong - Athreos - Arixmethes - Isperia - Etali - Silas+Sidar - Saskia - Virtus+Gorm - Kynaios - Naban - Aryel - Mizzix - Kazuul - Tymna+Kraum - Sidar+Tymna - Ayli - Gwendlyn - Phelddagrif 4 - Liliana - Kaervek - Phelddagrif 3 - Mairsil - Scarab - Child - Phenax - Shirei - Thada - Depala - Circu - Kytheon - GrenzoHR - Phelddagrif - Reyhan+Kraum - Toshiro - Varolz - Nin - Ojutai - Tasigur - Zedruu - Uril - Edric - Wort - Zurgo - Nahiri - Grenzo - Kozilek - Yisan - Ink-Treader - Yisan - Brago - Sidisi - Toshiro - Alexi - Sygg - Brimaz - Sek'Kuar - Marchesa - Vish Kal - Iroas - Phelddagrif - Ephara - Derevi - Glissa - Wanderer - Saffi - Melek - Xiahou Dun - Lazav - Lin Sivvi - Zirilan - Glissa
PDH - Drake - Graverobber - Izzet GM - Tallowisp - Symbiote Brawl - Feather - Ugin - Jace - Scarab - Angrath - Vraska - Kumena Oathbreaker - Wrenn&6
You hit the nail on the head with Torment, and why I hate it Being a single card that wins the game on the stack is really rough for non-blue, and kinda nudges people toward playing it in my opinion when it's heavily present.
And you're dead right about queller; queller is only good if you can spam it or if you really want the body, but it doesn't do the same things we need.
Mindbreak Trap is very very good and one I forgot about. I have had it on the bubble in my Inalla build for a long time. I never played it but I think it probably is good. I expect it is better than Pact of Negation for me, which is the other counterspell I hem and haw about a lot.
ertai's meddling is a very good card. I used to play it in Edric. Frankly, I forgot it didn't have the "counter target spell" verbiage on it. It's probably good enough for this deck and I should probably put it in Inalla lol
The suspend disadvantage is real, but you can always put it on 7 or something if you need to I guess. or put it on 3 and recommend everyone kill the obliterator/tormenter
re: Desert package - Scavenger grounds is insanely strong for sure. Grossly underrated.
UW Ephara Hatebears [Primer], GB Gitrog Lands, BRU Inalla Combo-Control, URG Maelstrom Wanderer Landfall
(I don't know if Grizzly Bears will continue being a Sliver once it hits the battlefield. Text changing effects like Artificial Evolution make it so that creatures that have their text changed while they are on the stack continue having their text changed once they enter the battlefield. Conspiracy isn't a text changing effect though, so it may work differently. Grizzly Bears is for sure still a Sliver while it is on the stack though.)
Spells that target other spells on the stack like Counterspell are almost guaranteed to do this. Spells that target cards on the battlefield (like Doom Blade) might also fizzle. It just depends on whether the creature Doom Blade targeted is still on the battlefield or not.
Trap your friends in an endless game with this 23-card combo!
If Ertai‘s Meddling counters a morphed spell, only a face-up colourless, nameless 2/2 creature will resolve after the delay. So in this case, Meddling only copies the „morph spell“, not the whole card (which is counter-intuitive to all the other cases, where Meddling actually remembers the countered spell‘s targets, X-values and so on).
EDIT: Knowing the rules now, this card looks mighty fine to me!
Legacy: Death&Taxes (almost there)
EDH: Squee, Goblin Nabob / Phelddagrif
UW Ephara Hatebears [Primer], GB Gitrog Lands, BRU Inalla Combo-Control, URG Maelstrom Wanderer Landfall
Funny enough, I put a picture of meddling in the card glossary but not the actual card. I'll try to remedy that if I get the chance to play it.
EDH Primers
Phelddagrif - Zirilan
EDH
Thrasios+Bruse - Pang - Sasaya - Wydwen - Feather - Rona - Toshiro - Sylvia+Khorvath - Geth - QMarchesa - Firesong - Athreos - Arixmethes - Isperia - Etali - Silas+Sidar - Saskia - Virtus+Gorm - Kynaios - Naban - Aryel - Mizzix - Kazuul - Tymna+Kraum - Sidar+Tymna - Ayli - Gwendlyn - Phelddagrif 4 - Liliana - Kaervek - Phelddagrif 3 - Mairsil - Scarab - Child - Phenax - Shirei - Thada - Depala - Circu - Kytheon - GrenzoHR - Phelddagrif - Reyhan+Kraum - Toshiro - Varolz - Nin - Ojutai - Tasigur - Zedruu - Uril - Edric - Wort - Zurgo - Nahiri - Grenzo - Kozilek - Yisan - Ink-Treader - Yisan - Brago - Sidisi - Toshiro - Alexi - Sygg - Brimaz - Sek'Kuar - Marchesa - Vish Kal - Iroas - Phelddagrif - Ephara - Derevi - Glissa - Wanderer - Saffi - Melek - Xiahou Dun - Lazav - Lin Sivvi - Zirilan - Glissa
PDH - Drake - Graverobber - Izzet GM - Tallowisp - Symbiote Brawl - Feather - Ugin - Jace - Scarab - Angrath - Vraska - Kumena Oathbreaker - Wrenn&6
If your meta is everyone playing lots of infinite combos or creating extremely difficult to stop board states and no one running answers, then the more players you have, the more screwed you are. Or like if everyone is playing purphoros, you're probably in trouble. Dig for that pulse of the fields, I guess.
If your meta is people playing a mix of control and threats then people will answer each other, and more players is generally fine.
If your meta is people playing somewhat durdly, lower-powered stuff, then they'll usually tussle with each other and answer each other through combat - which is also fine.
Basically, more players can exacerbate problematic situations, but outside of that it's generally fine, and can definitely be an advantage. It does create more opportunities to make mistakes, though - You need to be wary of everyone.
EDH Primers
Phelddagrif - Zirilan
EDH
Thrasios+Bruse - Pang - Sasaya - Wydwen - Feather - Rona - Toshiro - Sylvia+Khorvath - Geth - QMarchesa - Firesong - Athreos - Arixmethes - Isperia - Etali - Silas+Sidar - Saskia - Virtus+Gorm - Kynaios - Naban - Aryel - Mizzix - Kazuul - Tymna+Kraum - Sidar+Tymna - Ayli - Gwendlyn - Phelddagrif 4 - Liliana - Kaervek - Phelddagrif 3 - Mairsil - Scarab - Child - Phenax - Shirei - Thada - Depala - Circu - Kytheon - GrenzoHR - Phelddagrif - Reyhan+Kraum - Toshiro - Varolz - Nin - Ojutai - Tasigur - Zedruu - Uril - Edric - Wort - Zurgo - Nahiri - Grenzo - Kozilek - Yisan - Ink-Treader - Yisan - Brago - Sidisi - Toshiro - Alexi - Sygg - Brimaz - Sek'Kuar - Marchesa - Vish Kal - Iroas - Phelddagrif - Ephara - Derevi - Glissa - Wanderer - Saffi - Melek - Xiahou Dun - Lazav - Lin Sivvi - Zirilan - Glissa
PDH - Drake - Graverobber - Izzet GM - Tallowisp - Symbiote Brawl - Feather - Ugin - Jace - Scarab - Angrath - Vraska - Kumena Oathbreaker - Wrenn&6
I really enjoyed reading through your guide, extremely well written and really informative and fun to read.
Not having played MTG in 15+ years (stopped playing with the release of Mirrodin back then) but having my collection kept sealed away in a dark and dusty place, I recently discovered a MTG playgroup near me and decided to dig up my old cards and try to give it a go again. One of the hosts informed me of the "new" (at least for me) Commander format and I thought this might be the best starting point for me with my old and by todays standards mostly underpowered cards to at least have a chance.
Your Phelddagrif perfectly fits my playstyle for multiplayer games, thus I thought I might go and give it a try with the cards I've got:
1 Phelddagrif
Targeted Removal (22)
1 Desert Twister
1 Chain of Acid
1 Polymorph
1 Temporal Spring
1 Capsize
1 Swords to Plowshares
1 Creeping Mold
1 Dust to Dust
1 Wing Shards
1 Oblation
1 Chain of Vapor
1 Chastise
1 Ray of Distortion
1 Rushing River
1 Treva's Charm
1 Dismantling Blow
1 Submerge
1 Excise
1 Afterlife
1 Exile
1 Radiant's Judgment
1 Mind Games
Counterspells (12)
1 Counterspell
1 Power Sink
1 Arcane Denial
1 Absorb
1 Exclude
1 Spelljack
1 Discombobulate
1 Fervent Denial
1 Ertai's Meddling
1 Interdict
1 Rewind
1 Dismiss
1 Akroma's Vengeance
1 Wash Out
1 Kirtar's Wrath
1 Wrath of God
1 Rout
1 Catastrophe
1 Hurricane
1 Winds of Rath
1 Purify
1 Evacuation
Value (10)
1 Telepathy
1 Deep Analysis
1 Concentrate
1 Gaea's Blessing
1 Long-Term Plans
1 Words of Wisdom
1 Mystical Tutor
1 Stroke of Genius
1 Opportunity
1 Whispers of the Muse
Other (2)
1 Moment's Peace
1 Tangle
Lands (42)
1 Strip Mine
1 Aysen Abbey
1 Flood Plain
5 Forest
1 Grasslands
11 Island
9 Plains
1 Reflecting Pool
1 Adarkar Wastes
1 Brushland
1 City of Brass
1 Kor Haven
1 Coastal Tower
1 Terminal Moraine
1 Treva's Ruins
1 Yavimaya Coast
1 Skycloud Expanse
1 Sungrass Prairie
1 Krosan Verge
1 Temple of the False God
Does this look like a good starting point for this deck to try and delve into the Commander format?
I know you are not a fan of the Buyback-cards, but I have yet to find proper alternatives for them...
Cheers!
Your decklist composition looks very reasonable - it's a little hard to give too detailed of feedback without knowing the power level of your group, though. I think for anything in a low or medium-powered meta it could work just fine, but if you're finding yourself getting blindsided by things you weren't able to answer, here's some suggestions I'd make:
You have a lot of attacker-only removal, which will often not have any targets (let alone important targets) against certain kinds of decks - especially combo decks. Depending on your meta, that might be fine, or it could mean you have a hard time interacting with the things you really need to interact with. Personally my preference would be to replace them with removal that can hit non-attacking creatures and ideally noncreature permanents - first and foremost, beast within and generous gift are both amazingly versatile and relatively cheap. Bant Charm is another really versatile one that's not hard on the wallet. And Commit // Memory is another great.
I also prefer to avoid sorcery-speed targeted removal (you'll always have some sorcery-speed board wipes since it's hard to find enough instant-speed board wipes). The goal is to wait as long as possible before we're forced to act, which sorcery-speed removal doesn't let us do. So if possible, try to remove those ones (even if chain of acid is pretty hilarious...depending on your group it might be ok but it could also backfire hugely).
As far as the other cards go, of course there are some that aren't a totally optimal choice, but you can replace those as you get better options. There are a few I think run a little counter to the goal of the deck - hurricane is kind of a narrow board wipe and acts as a potential wincon (which could be good but also might make you a threat if people know you have it), Spelljack also could put you into a threatening position, and as you said I think the buyback spells can make you a threat (or at least a hindrance) that people want to get rid of (although you can always just play them without buyback if people are getting too bothered by them). That's not to say these things couldn't work out for you and still do well in your meta, though. My version of the deck is built on my experiences playing in my own groups, so you should feel free to take my advice with a grain of salt if these cards are working for you. But keep an eye on them when you play them, and decide if they're contributing or detracting from the game plan.
The one last thing I'd say is that I'd probably try to find more repeatable sources of card advantage. Right now the only repeatable engine you have is whispers of the muse, which is a great card, but I'd probably try to throw at least a couple more in there. Arch of Orazca is my favorite, pulse of the grid is great. If you can afford it, sylvan library is excellent, but if you can't, kumena's awakening does just fine in a pinch.
Hope that helps!
EDH Primers
Phelddagrif - Zirilan
EDH
Thrasios+Bruse - Pang - Sasaya - Wydwen - Feather - Rona - Toshiro - Sylvia+Khorvath - Geth - QMarchesa - Firesong - Athreos - Arixmethes - Isperia - Etali - Silas+Sidar - Saskia - Virtus+Gorm - Kynaios - Naban - Aryel - Mizzix - Kazuul - Tymna+Kraum - Sidar+Tymna - Ayli - Gwendlyn - Phelddagrif 4 - Liliana - Kaervek - Phelddagrif 3 - Mairsil - Scarab - Child - Phenax - Shirei - Thada - Depala - Circu - Kytheon - GrenzoHR - Phelddagrif - Reyhan+Kraum - Toshiro - Varolz - Nin - Ojutai - Tasigur - Zedruu - Uril - Edric - Wort - Zurgo - Nahiri - Grenzo - Kozilek - Yisan - Ink-Treader - Yisan - Brago - Sidisi - Toshiro - Alexi - Sygg - Brimaz - Sek'Kuar - Marchesa - Vish Kal - Iroas - Phelddagrif - Ephara - Derevi - Glissa - Wanderer - Saffi - Melek - Xiahou Dun - Lazav - Lin Sivvi - Zirilan - Glissa
PDH - Drake - Graverobber - Izzet GM - Tallowisp - Symbiote Brawl - Feather - Ugin - Jace - Scarab - Angrath - Vraska - Kumena Oathbreaker - Wrenn&6
Brought Back is neat. Doesn't really seem particularly helpful...I guess it helps you ramp a bit. It's cool but I just see no real reason we'd need it.
Cryptic caves - if the MH1 lands were borderline, this is pretty weak.
drawn from dreams is like dig through time, except not that good. But if you aren't running fetches it might be ok for a budgety list.
flood of tears - so many better options for this effect.
lotus field is...fine. Doesn't really seem useful, though.
Tale's End - maybe the only card I'm actually particularly interested in. I've been liking stifle effects in my decks, and this gives us a way to include one without sacrificing too much flexibility.
ferocious pup is interesting. We're basically impossible to attack on the ground, but it also means we can't play board wipes. I mean, legally we can, but morally it's pretty much impossible. I think this is probably too much of a drawback.
EDH Primers
Phelddagrif - Zirilan
EDH
Thrasios+Bruse - Pang - Sasaya - Wydwen - Feather - Rona - Toshiro - Sylvia+Khorvath - Geth - QMarchesa - Firesong - Athreos - Arixmethes - Isperia - Etali - Silas+Sidar - Saskia - Virtus+Gorm - Kynaios - Naban - Aryel - Mizzix - Kazuul - Tymna+Kraum - Sidar+Tymna - Ayli - Gwendlyn - Phelddagrif 4 - Liliana - Kaervek - Phelddagrif 3 - Mairsil - Scarab - Child - Phenax - Shirei - Thada - Depala - Circu - Kytheon - GrenzoHR - Phelddagrif - Reyhan+Kraum - Toshiro - Varolz - Nin - Ojutai - Tasigur - Zedruu - Uril - Edric - Wort - Zurgo - Nahiri - Grenzo - Kozilek - Yisan - Ink-Treader - Yisan - Brago - Sidisi - Toshiro - Alexi - Sygg - Brimaz - Sek'Kuar - Marchesa - Vish Kal - Iroas - Phelddagrif - Ephara - Derevi - Glissa - Wanderer - Saffi - Melek - Xiahou Dun - Lazav - Lin Sivvi - Zirilan - Glissa
PDH - Drake - Graverobber - Izzet GM - Tallowisp - Symbiote Brawl - Feather - Ugin - Jace - Scarab - Angrath - Vraska - Kumena Oathbreaker - Wrenn&6
With Scheming Symmetry and Head Games, I have hope for more interesting cards that could enable Tasigur once more.
Beating Face with Bane
Beatrice, the Golden Witch
Not huge on squelch - I think the deck functions best when value and answers are pretty separated. Narrow answers are risky since we want to keep maximum control at any given time, with a minimum of necessary cards in hand at a given time. Less flexible answers means more cards required to have control of the game. For medium/low powered metas it's fine. I tend to find triggered abilities are more frequently the thing I want to counter, though. Hence I like Tale's End more.
I've not busted out Tasigur in a long time - I could see myself going back, but I think it's a lot harder to play politically in the same way, given his rep as a strong card. Plus...I mean, with how cool my Phelddagrif alter is...I don't think I can ever really replace Phelddy Scheming symmetry is a sweet card, though.
EDIT: copying over my comments from...that other site...
As far as old cards on my mind, first and foremost is search for Azcanta (I mean, it's not THAT old, but it's old enough to have been tested). Mostly because it looks so good for us. I really want it to work. I wasn't thrilled with it before, but I think part of that is in how I was using it. Revealing the cards is obviously not ideal, but (1) you can always fail to find, and (2) you can find other value generation - it hits exploration, nexus of fate, etc (3) you can just stop using it when you don't need anything, (4) you can use the thing you find right away, (5) it costs basically nothing, just 2 mana and it flips right away in the late-game, and the scry early can be great for finding lands so we don't hit handsize early (6) 1v1 it's kind of insane, way better than arch, (7) if it's a board wipe, you're getting it eot probably, so you can just fire it off next turn, or skip taking it if you don't want it, and most importantly (8) while having things your opponents know about and can play around is bad, it's not bad if you have them in addition to your other cards. So they know you have a counter - that's fine, as long as you have more counters. Savvy opponents are probably assuming you have one anyway. It becomes awkward when you've already got 7 cards in hand when you activate it, and now you're discarding - so just don't activate it when you have 7, simple. When you're in trouble and low on cards, BAM, gas when you most need it.
I'm also feeling a bit down on single-shot draw at the moment. For a few reasons. I'll go through some of my thoughts on the matter.
If you have a big draw spell, the problem becomes - when do you fire it off, and for how much? Obviously if you're running reliquary tower you can just fire it off for a ton, but then you're basically just playing regular control with a crappy wincon, since everyone will be gunning for you. If you aren't, though, then how many is enough? Obviously you'd prefer to draw 5-7 cards with it, but you can't realistically maintain control over the game with just a few answers in hand, usually. So you can't really go down that low in the first place. So now you have to fire it off for, like, 3-4. Which is just lame. Why even bother. Just run medium/small draw.
If you have small draw, the problem becomes - how much do you need to run? You don't want to run out of gas, and sometimes you have to fire off a bunch of answers at once and find yourself low on defenses. So you need a decent density to ensure you can top yourself back up. But now you're significantly watering down your chance to have early answers, and if nothing much is happening, you're going to have a bunch of draw spells you don't really want to cast because they'll just make you even more overloaded. So you really need the right mix of draw and answers, consistently, for a really long game. If you hit too much draw when nothing is happening, you're in trouble. If you hit a drought of draw and need more gas, you're in trouble. It's just not reliable.
My favorite draw spells sort of get around this issue a bit - chemister's insight, for example, is a really solid one, because it acts like multiple small draw spells. And there's draw like dig through time which is just so good that it's still probably worth it.
But a lot of the other single-shot draw...eh, I'm just not feeling it. I'd much rather have some consistent value source. That way I can always keep myself as topped up as I think I need to be, and I only need one card to do it, not consistently hitting a good mix of draw and answers for the entire game.
Ok, end of rant.
In other news - can't remember how clear I've been about this, but the budgetless version of Phelddagrif is a deck I put together from time to time, when I'm feeling especially Phelddagriffy and want to really push my Phelddagriffness to the limit. But those cards are part of my main collection that I use to build all my other decks, so usually I play the budget version, which has its own cards that don't need to be returned to the collection. BUT I'm now in the slow, expensive process of upgrading the budget Phelddagrif to a more badass version - I probably won't make it all the way to the fully budgetless version, because idk if I reaaallly want to shell out for more duals. But short of that, I've already got a lot of the expensive sweet cards, like cyc rift, exploration, intuition, a decent percentage of the fetches and shocks, etc. So that should enhance my ability to test this deck in its more powerful variation, which is my favorite version, personally. No offense, etbt lands.
EDH Primers
Phelddagrif - Zirilan
EDH
Thrasios+Bruse - Pang - Sasaya - Wydwen - Feather - Rona - Toshiro - Sylvia+Khorvath - Geth - QMarchesa - Firesong - Athreos - Arixmethes - Isperia - Etali - Silas+Sidar - Saskia - Virtus+Gorm - Kynaios - Naban - Aryel - Mizzix - Kazuul - Tymna+Kraum - Sidar+Tymna - Ayli - Gwendlyn - Phelddagrif 4 - Liliana - Kaervek - Phelddagrif 3 - Mairsil - Scarab - Child - Phenax - Shirei - Thada - Depala - Circu - Kytheon - GrenzoHR - Phelddagrif - Reyhan+Kraum - Toshiro - Varolz - Nin - Ojutai - Tasigur - Zedruu - Uril - Edric - Wort - Zurgo - Nahiri - Grenzo - Kozilek - Yisan - Ink-Treader - Yisan - Brago - Sidisi - Toshiro - Alexi - Sygg - Brimaz - Sek'Kuar - Marchesa - Vish Kal - Iroas - Phelddagrif - Ephara - Derevi - Glissa - Wanderer - Saffi - Melek - Xiahou Dun - Lazav - Lin Sivvi - Zirilan - Glissa
PDH - Drake - Graverobber - Izzet GM - Tallowisp - Symbiote Brawl - Feather - Ugin - Jace - Scarab - Angrath - Vraska - Kumena Oathbreaker - Wrenn&6
I have been a target in my playgroup since as long as I can remember. Unintentionally, most of my decks have turned oppressive. As a new poster, forgive me as I am unfamiliar as to how to link a card. The main decks I play are a Karametra enchantress build, a Meren deck, a Marath aggro deck, and a Marchesa deck with similar goals to this one. After achieving the role of "consistent archenemy", I've decided that I am unhappy staying as such. Therefore, after narrowing the issue down, I feel like my alarm bells are too easily set off as far as threats assessment goes. I must kill that Rhystic study or your commander repeatedly or your Sword of Fire and Ice. Today, I ask you of two things, what kind of cards should I be fine with existing and performing without letting my opponent ascend into an unassailable position? And finally, what is the updated list you are currently using?
P.S. What is the story behind the other primer written by you named "Dominance Through Vulnerability"?
Second, the more updated version is on mtgnexus, which includes my current list (https://www.mtgnexus.com/viewtopic.php?f=35&t=550&start=25). Although current by no means implies it's the best. It's probably too heavy on value engines, but I had a bunch I wanted to try. I've posted piecemeal updates in the thread, rating new cards, but the primer as a whole needs a bigger update. I've just been lazy. Maybe I'll get around to it today.
Thirdly, if you're already the consistent archenemy and have been for some time, I might suggest an even more aggressive option to reset the balance - my go-to when I feel like I just absolutely dominated the last couple matches is to bust out an unmodified precon for a game or two. Phelddagrif is more designed for an environment where you're going to at least be given a fair shake to see how threatening you are, and if you're already assumed to be the most threatening, it could lead to a downward spiral where you're forced to kill threat after threat after threat because they're ALL coming at you. Which will still likely result in you losing, but it also won't fully dispel the aura the aura of archenemy because you still killed a lot of their stuff on the way out.
If you think your playgroup is likely to approach a new deck fairly, then maybe Phelddagrif could still work, but from the way you've described it, I'd be a bit hesitant.
Fourthly, I'm not sure what you mean by "performing"...but it sounds like you're basically asking "how do I threat assess" which is difficult to talk about because I don't really think there's any obvious cut-and-dried answers. It's something you accumulate from playing the game.
But in general, the first thing I tend to do when threat-assessing is to try to get a bead on how scary enemies are as a whole. How good is their manabase? Are they playing many sub-par cards? Are they playing scary cards that might combo in the future? How good is their deck's synergy, does it seem like it has a cohesive game plan? How well are they playing, are they making a lot of dumb misplays? And how aggressive are they being towards me specifically? That's going to color a lot of my threat assessment, because if their deck is jank and they're playing it badly, then I probably don't really care if they draw twenty cards off rhystic study, especially if they're not aiming them at me.
An important part of your strategy when playing Phelddagrif is letting enemies get "out of control" in a way that will distract enemy threat assessment away from you, while ideally still being something you CAN get control of again, if you need to. So you want the deck getting out of control to be something that isn't going to throw too many scary curveballs at you.
Lastly...I have absolutely no idea what you mean about dominance through vulnerability. It sounds vaguely familiar but a google search turned up nothing. Link?
EDH Primers
Phelddagrif - Zirilan
EDH
Thrasios+Bruse - Pang - Sasaya - Wydwen - Feather - Rona - Toshiro - Sylvia+Khorvath - Geth - QMarchesa - Firesong - Athreos - Arixmethes - Isperia - Etali - Silas+Sidar - Saskia - Virtus+Gorm - Kynaios - Naban - Aryel - Mizzix - Kazuul - Tymna+Kraum - Sidar+Tymna - Ayli - Gwendlyn - Phelddagrif 4 - Liliana - Kaervek - Phelddagrif 3 - Mairsil - Scarab - Child - Phenax - Shirei - Thada - Depala - Circu - Kytheon - GrenzoHR - Phelddagrif - Reyhan+Kraum - Toshiro - Varolz - Nin - Ojutai - Tasigur - Zedruu - Uril - Edric - Wort - Zurgo - Nahiri - Grenzo - Kozilek - Yisan - Ink-Treader - Yisan - Brago - Sidisi - Toshiro - Alexi - Sygg - Brimaz - Sek'Kuar - Marchesa - Vish Kal - Iroas - Phelddagrif - Ephara - Derevi - Glissa - Wanderer - Saffi - Melek - Xiahou Dun - Lazav - Lin Sivvi - Zirilan - Glissa
PDH - Drake - Graverobber - Izzet GM - Tallowisp - Symbiote Brawl - Feather - Ugin - Jace - Scarab - Angrath - Vraska - Kumena Oathbreaker - Wrenn&6
The idea of playing an unmodified precon sounds interesting as it really would increase my chance of (as my goal) building this deck and being successful with it in the long run.
Truth be told, my threat assessment could always find improvement but I have not had many problems with it as of now. Without being pretentious, most of the rotating meta I play with usually consists of 2-3 other players (in a four-player pod) with quite poor threat assessment. The main problem I'm facing is I don't know what to mainly feel threatened by. Usually, as is what happens too often, I will see threats, remove them and pay in the sense that they see me as an (aforementioned), oppressive player. What too often happens is that when I don't have that removal spell, the table falls into an inevitable doom as the (forgive the specifics) quiet, experienced player goes for the win with enough counterspells backed up to secure their victory.
Come to think of it, I don't properly know how to threat-assess card advantage or as to how to get the table aware of it.
Is there an ideal list that you would recommend using?
Sincere apologies, I have misremembered the name. The link is here: https://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/commander-edh/multiplayer-commander-decklists/762203-phelddagrif-domination-through-weakness
The list appears to have been created by you which confuses me.
Thank you for your time.
Search for Azcanta: After scouring your changelog and reading replies, I am curious as to why you play it after thoroughly scorning it due to the level of attention it attracts.
Intuition: Do you play this card because of the political aspect of it? Or just for synergy with Life From the Loam. Admittedly, I've been skeptical of this card for a while yet I've seen it played everywhere. I confess that I have not tested this card anywhere so I have no real experience with it.
Life From the Loam: Do you purely play this card to loop fetches? If so, what warrants skipping a draw and setting of people's "Hes's looping lands!" reaction and delivering Gitrog/Azusa PTSD.
Nexus of Fate;: I am bamboozled because this seems like something that would set off alarm bells like madness while not fulfilling your own goals to a relevant extent. (Obviously, I am wrong here as you have every card tested but I would like to know why).
Finally, boardipes: In short, boardipes are absurdly effective WMDs that warrant a play in even the most aggressive of decks. However, if the point of this deck is to let things get out of control, what's to stop them from gumming up your hand or setting the table off in anger when you drop them. In addition, if you are playing 10 boardwipes, when do you play them period? The dilemma I see that you've no doubt bypassed, is if you run a tenth of your deck as boardwipes, you have a choice whether you can use them constantly or let them pile up in shame. If you boardwipe too much, the boardstate never achieves anything and no one deals damage and the game grinds to a halt. What warrants the large dedication of slots?
Thank you for your time and excuse formatting and error please.
Personally, I'm a big proponent of magic as a biathlon between deck construction and deck playing. I don't think anyone can really master a deck without having spent time building it. Hence, I intentionally made the guide open-ended, so that you can customize the deck to your budget, meta, and preferences. Simply put, there is no ideal list, especially since so much of the effectiveness is going to depend on how your opponents react to you plays. Is loam engine too scary and threatening, or is it fine? Depends entirely on the power level of your opponents, and how they react to what you're doing - and how they view you specifically. There's no way I could make a list that works optimally for all players and metas. You can copy one of my example lists, or (as I'd suggest) build your own. Maybe start with a budget version and try out cards as you get a feel for how you want the deck to play, if you want to jump in.
Ah, yes that's just an earlier version of the deck. I build and disassemble decks constantly, so sometimes I'll revisit a deck after I've long since disassembled it. In Phelddagrif's case, I came back to it a couple times, before finally making a permanent version which is now separate from the normal deck churn I go through, though I still tinker with it from time to time, and evaluate new cards in regards to the deck. Right now I've got a lot of new legends I'm brewing with, though, so I haven't played Phelddagrif much recently. I've made ~10 decks in the past month, and am working on 4.
Search for Azcanta is one I'm trying out. I think it can work, but it requires judicious usage - for example, not activating it if you already have a full grip. It's an effect I really like, so I'm doing my best to make it work. Whether you can "sell" it is up to you and your meta.
Intuition is incredibly powerful, as an instant-speed tutor. Fetching loam engine is a powerful piece of that, but also it's ability to reliably fetch a board wipe or counterspell, while dumping two cards into the graveyard, is really useful. With Phelddagrif's ability to "pay" people, it's almost always a 3 mana tutor with upside.
LFTL: you can use it just for fetches, that'd be a pretty tame use for the card. That might be worth doing if you want to keep its threat level low.
Usually when I play it, I'm looping cycling lands to generate big CA in the late-game. I don't run the lonely sandbar cycle, though, as they're too efficient imo and can look too threatening - so I just run the cycling deserts and bicycle lands, all of which cycle for 2. Efficient enough to generate decent CA, but not TOO efficient. But YMMV of course. If you can get away with running lonely sandbar, go for it.
nexus of fate I think I talk about in the glossary, but basically it's an out to mill (which can otherwise be hard for us to interact with) and a way to guarantee the win if the game goes sufficiently long. You can dredge loam like crazy to go infinite ASAP, but I wouldn't recommend it since it'll look pretty threatening. But if it's one of those 30 turn games, well, sometimes it's just gotta end. It does sometimes catch flak, but I always tell people it's basically just an explore in this deck. I've had it get countered before...obviously I didn't really care. If you know your meta and mill isn't going to happen you can probably ignore it. But going sight-unseen into a meta, I like to have the out. It doesn't really cost much to run since it's a fine draw once you have the mana for it.
Board wipes can gum up the hand, for sure. I think 10 is probably too many, I've planned to cut it to 8, but as I said I've been busy with other decks. They don't usually get too much anger, since usually the players who were behind are happy to see the board get cleared. Constant board wipes are a problem though, and can make people feel annoyed that they can't get anywhere - which is why I think 10 is probably too many. But there are also lots of board states that really necessitate a wipe to get back under control, so being able to find one when needed is often crucial.
EDH Primers
Phelddagrif - Zirilan
EDH
Thrasios+Bruse - Pang - Sasaya - Wydwen - Feather - Rona - Toshiro - Sylvia+Khorvath - Geth - QMarchesa - Firesong - Athreos - Arixmethes - Isperia - Etali - Silas+Sidar - Saskia - Virtus+Gorm - Kynaios - Naban - Aryel - Mizzix - Kazuul - Tymna+Kraum - Sidar+Tymna - Ayli - Gwendlyn - Phelddagrif 4 - Liliana - Kaervek - Phelddagrif 3 - Mairsil - Scarab - Child - Phenax - Shirei - Thada - Depala - Circu - Kytheon - GrenzoHR - Phelddagrif - Reyhan+Kraum - Toshiro - Varolz - Nin - Ojutai - Tasigur - Zedruu - Uril - Edric - Wort - Zurgo - Nahiri - Grenzo - Kozilek - Yisan - Ink-Treader - Yisan - Brago - Sidisi - Toshiro - Alexi - Sygg - Brimaz - Sek'Kuar - Marchesa - Vish Kal - Iroas - Phelddagrif - Ephara - Derevi - Glissa - Wanderer - Saffi - Melek - Xiahou Dun - Lazav - Lin Sivvi - Zirilan - Glissa
PDH - Drake - Graverobber - Izzet GM - Tallowisp - Symbiote Brawl - Feather - Ugin - Jace - Scarab - Angrath - Vraska - Kumena Oathbreaker - Wrenn&6